Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation'

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  vic-eldred  •  4 weeks ago  •  97 comments

By:   Michael Ruiz (Fox News)

Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation'
The leading Black Lives Matter organization declared "solidarity with Palestinians" Monday, a week after Hamas terrorists in Gaza began firing a relentless barrage of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately shelling civilian targets as well as dropping some missiles short and blowing up buildings within its territory.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T




The leading Black Lives Matter organization declared "solidarity with Palestinians" Monday, a week after Hamas terrorists in Gaza began firing a relentless barrage of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately shelling civilian targets as well as dropping some missiles short and blowing up buildings within its territory.

"Black Lives Matter stands in solidarity with Palestinians," the group tweeted. "We are a movement committed to ending settler colonialism in all forms and will continue to advocate for Palestinian liberation. ( always have. And always will be ). #freepalestine."

The announcement prompted a "thank you" tweet from the controversial Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, or BDS, which has for years called for an economic embargo of Israel.

Israeli Iron Dome air defense system launches to intercept rockets fired from Gaza Strip, near Sderot, Israel, Thursday, May 13, 2021. (AP Photo/Ariel Schalit)

"Thank you for your solidarity," the left-wing group tweeted in response. "From Ferguson to Palestine, our struggles against racism, white supremacy and for a just world are united!"

The tweet came as pro-Palestinian protesters gathered in the U.S. and other Western countries to call for a cease-fire in the region.

Amid the ongoing battle between Israel and Hamas militants, at least 12 Israelis and 213 Palestinians have been killed over the past eight days, including 61 children and 36 women. More than 100 Israelis and 1,400 Palestinians had been wounded as of Tuesday evening.

The military conflict escalated dramatically on May 10 when Hamas began firing rocket after rocket at Jerusalem following a violent clash between Israeli police and Palestinian protesters at the Al-Aqsa mosque, a sacred site for both Jews and Muslims. Despite hundreds of Israeli counterattacks and its Iron Dome defense system, the rockets have continued to fly.

But left-wing groups, and progressive lawmakers, have blamed Israel for the violence, describing it as an "apartheid state" committing "war crimes" and other atrocities on Palestinian civilians, who Hamas frequently treats like human shields, attracting airstrikes on high-rise buildings that share space with civilians.

The Israeli Defense Forces say they warn civilians ahead of strikes on such locations, giving them time to run for safety before leveling Hamas facilities.

"Israel fights to protect its civilians," the IDF tweeted Tuesday. "Hamas uses civilians to protect itself."


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    4 weeks ago

I'm sure that in the minds of BLM leaders it would be a simple matter of declaring the Palestinians as "the oppressed" and Israel as "the oppressors." That is the way such people think, as do others in our society. It is a tortured form of logic, conceived within our universities and now poisoning our society. It is the similarity between Hamas and BLM that is most striking. One could argue that both are terrorist organizations.



Trump and his supporters are off topic.
I am off topic.

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    4 weeks ago

Some of us separate Palestinians from whoever rules them and Israelis from who rules them. I side with the citizens of either, not with the rulers.

As to calling BLM being a terrorist organization ... that's just plain dumb, but wholly expected.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1    4 weeks ago

Then I'll have to turn to someone who thinks he's not dumb.

Tell us why such a violent organization that has gone totally immune from US law shouldn't be declared a terrorist organization?

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

Tell us why you conflate the 2, to make some cheap socio-political point that does nothing but further divide? That's just great!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.3  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1.2    4 weeks ago
Tell us why you conflate the 2

Because the similarities are striking. Both are radical organizations that use violence and the threat of violence as their chief MO.  You think it divides us to call out an organization that has wreaked such violence and mayhem?  I think what divides us is embracing such an organization as the current president & vp have done.

Is that how the non-dumb reason?

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1.4  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    4 weeks ago

Get back to me when BLM has 1/10,000th of the fire power available to Hamas.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.5  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1.4    4 weeks ago

Oh, so rockets are the litmus test!

Got it.

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1.6  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.5    4 weeks ago
Got it.

Congratulations!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.7  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1.6    4 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1.8  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.7    4 weeks ago

If you are trying to start a 'ticket' catfight, do it with yourself.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.9  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1.8    4 weeks ago

If I wanted to do that I'd call your comment "just plain dumb."

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Principal
1.1.10  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    4 weeks ago

That would not have worked. You do understand the difference between calling someone a liar and the statement they made a lie?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.11  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @1.1.10    4 weeks ago

Ya, it's called skirting the code as opposed to openly violating it.

Some of our regular hecklers are experts at it..

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
PhD Guide
1.1.12  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.9    4 weeks ago

You just did.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

You're sure?  Is that the way 'such people' think?  'As do others in our society'?  Who are these 'others' in society.  How would you know that?  What they/how they think?

BLM a terrorist organization?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Expert
2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago

Didn't you tell us the other day that you back the Palestinians?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

As I said on another seed, and previously for a long time, although I support many of the causes of the black people, because BLM supports BDS and the Palestinians (which is none of their fucking business and just reduces their virtue) they can shove their BLM up their asses.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    4 weeks ago

As far as I'm concerned FUCK ISRAEL.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    4 weeks ago

Is that a parting shot?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.1    4 weeks ago

It just did that trick as far as I'm concerned.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.3  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.2    4 weeks ago

You mean it's a revelation?

It wasn't for me.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.3    4 weeks ago

I have my personal red lines.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3.1.4    4 weeks ago

So do I.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
3.1.6  MonsterMash  replied to  Tessylo @3.1    4 weeks ago
As far as I'm concerned FUCK ISRAEL. 

FUCK BLM AND HAMAS

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
3.2  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    4 weeks ago

Totally agree Buzz. Some are just anti Israel all of a sudden. See 3.1 below.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
3.3  dennis smith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    4 weeks ago

All BLM has to do to prove their solidarity is go fight with them. They will not as their words mean nothing of the sort.  

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
3.3.1  charger 383  replied to  dennis smith @3.3    4 weeks ago

That would be great if they would go to Gaza and stay there

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
3.3.2  Gazoo  replied to  charger 383 @3.3.1    4 weeks ago

Lmao, i agree!

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
3.3.3  bugsy  replied to  charger 383 @3.3.1    4 weeks ago
That would be great if they would go to Gaza and stay th

It would be, but once they start burning down Palestinian businesses because they are not giving them free stuff, then they will try and send them back here.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
3.3.4  dennis smith  replied to  bugsy @3.3.3    4 weeks ago

They talk the talk but wont walk the walk. 

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
4  FortunateSon    4 weeks ago

There is nothing  surprising here

BLM and Hamas are both terrorist organizations

Israel said they will not stop until hamas is gun shy... LOL 

Israel should bomb Hamas into oblivion.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1  Ronin2  replied to  FortunateSon @4    4 weeks ago

Gaza is one of the densest populated places on the planet. For Israel to "bomb Hamas into oblivion" it would take countless civilian casualties. That would create how many more terrorists and fighters for Israel to face as people flock to the Hamas banner in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt? It that type of short sighted thinking that has gotten things to where they are today.

Israel has every right to defend themselves. But they need to do so within reason; and not create even more terrorists to face down the road.

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
4.1.1  FortunateSon  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 weeks ago

That acting with reason only guaranteed future bs from hamas in the past

Forget reason. Israel should try something different and bomb hamas into  unconditional surrender.

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
4.1.2  charger 383  replied to  FortunateSon @4.1.1    4 weeks ago
      "Israel should try something different and bomb hamas into unconditional surrender."
I support that

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
4.1.3  zuksam  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 weeks ago
Gaza is one of the densest populated places on the planet

That's why Hamas hides among the people and conducts their terrorist attacks from these populated areas. They know there will be civilian deaths and that's exactly what they want, they cause the war and blame Israel for the deaths. It's how they maintain power, a terrorist organization has no power if there's peace. They need to keep the hate alive in order to survive. In that way they are very similar the BLM.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
4.1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  FortunateSon @4.1.1    4 weeks ago

With the exception of Hiroshima & Nagasaki..... history has proven that bombing campaigns only create high civilian body counts, and elevated fighting resolve by those that have nothing left to lose.

Suggest you read the biography's of Sir Arthur "bomber" Harris, General Curtis "hard ass" Lemay.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.5  Ronin2  replied to  zuksam @4.1.3    4 weeks ago

I agree with you completely. Hamas wants high Palestinian civilian casualties. It plays well to western media; and UN Resolutions. They don't even care about their fighters. With each death more fighters flock to the Hamas banner. 

However, Israel isn't doing itself any favors by the Separation Wall and settlement growth and expansion in the West Bank. Hamas can claim that they are protesting Israel's subjugation of the Palestinian people in the West Bank. It seems to working as Hamas is creeping into the West Bank and threatening the PA rule there.

The Palestinian people are going to suffer no matter who is in charge. The terrorist Hamas; the corrupt weak malignant PA; or Israel that thinks Jordan is really Palestine, and is taking every action it can to make that a reality.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
4.1.6  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.5    4 weeks ago

Furthermore...... elevated body counts pushes the sides apart and further into the hands of the power seeking leaders of the PA, Hamas, and Israel perpetrating the violence to begin with.  The way humans are wired, it is much easier to elevate fear and hatred than it is to get them to contemplate and seek solutions. 

 
 
 
FortunateSon
Freshman Silent
4.1.7  FortunateSon  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.4    4 weeks ago
and elevated fighting resolve by those that have nothing left to lose.

So israel should acquiesce to hamas and accept the bombings? LOL

I'm sure israel can bomb hamas into submission every ten yrs or so if required

The people of Palestine should get better govt.

Hamas brings them nothing but death.

If the people want a terrorist org running their govt they deserve every bomb they catch.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.8  Ronin2  replied to  FortunateSon @4.1.7    4 weeks ago

I don't think that is what he is saying.

The circular violence is pushing all sides apart making any chance at peace unrealistic. 

You will notice that it is just not Hamas this time; but Palestinians inside of Israel as well. Israel is doing itself no favors by it's continued crack down on Palestinians within their own country- limiting their political power; limiting their opportunity for housing and growth; and making sure that they continue to be second and third class citizens. Also, the Separation Wall and increased settlements within the West Bank. None of which is helpful if Israel really wants to make peace. Also, the Palestinians are supposed to be all one people; yet Israel does everything within their power to keep them divided and fighting among themselves.

That whole "Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East" argument doesn't last once you get past the surface.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.8    4 weeks ago

Can't blame anyone for losing patience and going about feathering their own nest when they've given the others 70 years to accept the numerous opportunities offered to them to create their own country in peace and security and use the probably billions of dollars donated to them over the years to build a beneficial society (only to find most of it syphoned off into Swiss bank accounts).  Are you saying Israel is obligated to be its brother's keeper?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.10  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.4    4 weeks ago
history has proven that bombing campaigns only create high civilian body counts, and elevated fighting resolve by those that have nothing left to lose.

Exactly.

And that's why we were neverable to defeat Nazi Germany!

(People need to remember-- your can't end wars-- or dislodge Fascist government by bombing or any other military means-- you have to negotiate in a reasonable way with fascists, terror organization like Hamas, and the like!!!)

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.11  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.8    4 weeks ago
That whole "Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East" argument doesn't last once you get past the surface.

Of course you could say the same thing about the U.S. as well (Not being a democracy).

Probably almost every country in the world, in fact!!!!!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.1.12  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.6    4 weeks ago
elevated body counts pushes the sides apart and further into the hands of the power seeking leaders of the PA, Hamas,

Perhaps.

But the fact is that Hamas has ruled Gaza with an iron fist ever since they gained independence from Israel.

Body count or no bodycount...Hamas rules!!!

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.1.13  dennis smith  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1    4 weeks ago

When wars are not fought to win there will  be more wars. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.1.14  dennis smith  replied to  FortunateSon @4.1.7    4 weeks ago

For sure FortunateSon, what the people permit, they promote.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.15  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.9    4 weeks ago

Yes, I can blame Israel for constantly trying to get agreements that no one with any sanity would take. No free air space? Restricted water rights? Restricted access to port; and how far out vessels will be allowed to operate for fishing? Keeping the West Bank and Gaza physically separated so trade and travel between the two are just about impossible. Sounds like a real winner when it comes to creating a country. I can also blame them for treating Palestinians living within Israel proper like second and third rate citizens. 

What part of weak and corrupt don't you understand? When I call the PA that it isn't a compliment. They are literally being bought off by the US and Israel. I fully blame the PA for that. They are not representing the best interests of their people. They are enriching themselves for the eventual fallout. Either after Israel takes what land and resources it wants and declares it's borders and forces out all of the Palestinians into what remains of the West Bank; or Hamas finally gets enough power in the West Bank to remove the PA completely. The upper echelon of the PA probably already have the country they are going to "retire to" picked out; and more than enough stolen money to make sure they and their family are set for generations. The US and Israel are both fully aware; and don't give a shit so long as the PA keeps the Palestinians under their control suppressed.

I also called Hamas a terrorist organization that doesn't give a rats ass about the people they are supposed to be representing. Please tell me that I somehow support Hamas? They are fighting a war they can never win; and they don't give a shit. They are taking money and weapons from Iran; and alienating every other Arab country that would be willing to financially support a future developing Palestinian state. They spend more money on bunkers and weapons than things their people actually need. Of course they know anything built will soon be blown up by Israel anyways- Hamas will make sure of that.

The US is not some great ambassador of peace between the Palestinians and Israel. We send aide, military aide, and financial aide to Israel every year like clockwork in ever increasing amounts. We pay off the PA to keep their people suppressed while Israel does it's land grab in the West Bank. Like with Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Afghanistan, and so many other quagmires the US loves to stick itself into; and then we sit around and wonder why the next time a terrorist attack is carried out on US soil. 

I am allowed to say a pox on all of their houses. We would be much better off keeping our damn money at home; and building our own country up. In case no one has heard we have crumbling highways; bridges; rail lines and ports that our exceedingly outdated; electrical grids that cannot handling the growing population and technology needs; and a host of other things that need to be addressed. We can't even control our own damn borders; but somehow we have military in every damn corner of the earth! 

We have been stuck on stupid so damn long when it comes to foreign policy that now it is just somehow accepted!

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.16  Ronin2  replied to  dennis smith @4.1.13    4 weeks ago

To win Israel must wipe out Hamas everywhere. That means in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. So you would fully support Israel starting full scale invasions and occupations of all of those countries as that is what it would take to remove Hamas and make sure they don't return. You can't just "bomb them into submission" or whatever other terms you want to use. More Palestinians will flock to the Hamas banner to replace those killed. Hamas doesn't give a shit how many die; they can always recruit more. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.1.17  dennis smith  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.16    4 weeks ago

That is not what I said. They only need to wipe out the ones who attack Israel.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.15    4 weeks ago

You're saying that being offered 97% of what they demanded didn't include access to necessities of life, and how do you rationalize the fact that the Palestinians consistently REFUSED to even negotiate, but just got up and walked away from the table?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.19  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.18    3 weeks ago

What was the 3 percent that was left out Buzz? Notice you didn't even try to refute post 4.1.15. Could that be the 3% you are talking about? I left out a few details. Israel wanted the future of major Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be left out for further negotiations down the road. Palestinian future capital being in East Jerusalem was a no go. And Palestinian right of return was left out as well (Admittedly never going to happen; but Israel should be forced to compensate them- so they can at least have a chance at a life somewhere else). Now why would the Palestinians object to that?/S

You seem to confuse me with someone that hasn't stated repeatedly that the Palestinian leadership sucks; and in no way represents the best interests of the Palestinian people. That doesn't excuse the Israeli government's piss poor treatment of the Palestinians living within their borders; stealing the land of the West Bank Palestinians; and making sure that the Palestinian people in the Gaza strip suffer as much as possible for being under Hamas rule.

All 3 governments are wrong. It is a perfect triangle of stupid. One that we have sent US tax dollars to for far too long.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.20  Ronin2  replied to  dennis smith @4.1.17    3 weeks ago

How is Hamas in Gaza is getting materials for their rockets? That would be from the Hamas pipeline in Egypt. Think they are going to stop just because Hamas in Gaza is getting attacked?

There are factions of Hamas in Syria and Lebanon as well- they have attacked Israel with rockets in response to Gaza.

Multiple rockets were fired at Israel from Syria and Lebanon in recent days, according to the Israeli Defense Forces, a threat to Israel’s north amid the worst uptick in southern Israeli hostilities in years, including thousands of rocket attacks from militants in the Gaza Strip and heavy Israeli airstrikes into Gaza.

KEY FACTS

Three rockets were launched from Syria toward Israel on Friday, but one fell in Syria rather than reaching its target, the IDF said in a tweet .

There has been no comment yet from Syria on the missiles, according to various reports.

A day earlier, the IDF said three rockets from Lebanon plunged into the Mediterranean Sea near Israel, an attack Al Jazeera reports is still under investigation.

Meanwhile, Israeli tanks fired toward protesters in southern Lebanon who the IDF claimed breached Israel’s border fence Friday, reportedly leading to at least one Lebanese death.

CONTRA

Isolated attacks from Israel’s north are not unheard of, so this week’s airstrikes don’t necessarily represent a new offensive. An anti-aircraft missile from Syria landed near Israel’s secretive Dimona nuclear site last month, an incident the IDF said it believes was unintentional. Plus, militant groups in Lebanon are occasionally blamed for rocket attacks on Israel, and fire is sometimes exchanged across the Israel-Lebanon border between the IDF and militant group Hezbollah.

I am sure Hamas would love a full scale invasion by Israel of Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt to try and eradicate them. It would force Sunni Arab countries to actually take a stance- either throwing their Sunni brethren in Lebanon and Egypt under the Israeli bus; or come out directly against Israel. No more fence sitting allowed. No more "Israel is better than Iran; and Hamas is an agent of Iran"

In case you missed it Israel tried the whole remove Hamas from Lebanon by ground approach recently; it didn't accomplish what they wanted.

.

To stop Hamas you need to cut off their Iranian money. Killing their foot soldiers won't accomplish anything- more will flock to their ranks to more than replace any lost.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.21  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.19    3 weeks ago

Hey Ronin2, you should have been put in charge of the whole area - at least you don't choose sides but despise all sides equally.  

Whatever the 3% was, the Palestinians did not even try to negotiate for it, proving that they did not come to the table to make a deal unless it was what they really wanted, a Judenfrei Israel, or as they express it, "Palestine shall be free, from the river to the sea."  I suppose just because Hamas contains in their constitution the destruction of Israel and the killing of the Jews, they're okay guys as far as the Israelis are concerned.  

It seems to me that Israel does more to preserve civilian lives than any army had done in history.  They actually warn the citizens to leave the places they intend to bomb.  Did America warn the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that they intended to fry them alive?  If so many Gazans died, blame Hamas for using human shields. 

By the way, interesting that you mention Jordan in your comment 4.1.15.  Are you aware of the Jordan Option - it was a suggested solution to the quagmire and included Israel putting up lots of money and effort to settle the Palestinians there.  I guess you knew that more Palestinians live in Jordan than all other Palestinians everywhere combined and in fact it is the REAL Palestine.  Did you know about Black September where more Palestinians were killed than ever killed by anyone and it wasn't Israelis or Jews who did it, it was a massacre, but not at all newsworthy because after all, since the media couldn't blame the Jews or Israel it didn't fit their agenda. 

Oh, and in my opinion, it is the Palestinians who are the "occupiers" of Israeli land, ever since Israel conquered those lands in a defensive war, not the other way around.  And the Arabs who live in Israel as SO mistreated, they sit as judges, even on the Israeli Supreme Court, munical officials, teachers, medical staff in Israeli hospitals, have political parties as part of the Knesset, vote, serve in the IDF, carry on their businesses and pray in their mosques.  In fact, a poll taken some time ago indicated that the vast majority of them would rather remain in Israel than live in ANY ARAB COUNTRY.  I personally interviewed Arab doctors, nurses and staff in Netanya's Orthodox Jewish Laniado Hospital and they were completely satisfied with their life in Israel, and during Jewish holidays they are in complete control of the hospital.   Amazing, eh, - Have YOU ever interviewed Arabs who live in Israel, and in fact since you are so opinionated about it, have you ever even BEEN to Israel  I've been there more than once, even to the West Bank, and to Jordan and Egypt - and that does make me feel just a little bit knowledgeable of what I speak.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.22  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.21    3 weeks ago

Oh, and Ronin2, I just noticed that you mentioned the shelling from Lebanon to northern Israel, and it reminded me of my visit to a Kibbutz in northern Israel and having to run and hide in a bomb shelter when the area was being bombed by Lebanon.  Have you ever had to run and hide in a bomb shelter when bombs were falling near you?  Now THERE'S something I bet you/ve never personally experienced but I guess you know all about it from reading some biased news report from which you're able to find the "facts" that you've posted and upon which you've formed your opinions. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Masters Guide
4.1.23  Thrawn 31  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.15    3 weeks ago

Well hot damn, we agree on all points. You and I don’t agree about much but it seems like we are both tired of the same old bullshit between Israel and the Palestinians and would rather the US just say “fuck it, you all figure it out without us or our money.” 

They aren’t going to have peace until both sides make concessions that  neither side is willing to make.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.24  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @4.1.21    3 weeks ago
Hey Ronin2, you should have been put in charge of the whole area - at least you don't choose sides but despise all sides equally.  

I despise the governments and leaders of all 3 sides equally. I don't despise the general population in any of the countries; outside of the hard line radicals that want to make life impossible for everyone. I don't think anyone would want me in charge. They would all hate me equally as I wouldn't put up with any of their BS. It would be the only thing all sides would agree on. I am not really a people person. As I get older I find I need other people less and less.

By the way, interesting that you mention Jordan in your comment 4.1.15.  Are you aware of the Jordan Option - it was a suggested solution to the quagmire and included Israel putting up lots of money and effort to settle the Palestinians there.

Of course I am aware of it. It is the very reason I mentioned; and that it is not an option.

I guess you knew that more Palestinians live in Jordan than all other Palestinians everywhere combined and in fact it is the REAL Palestine.

Yes, there are more Palestinians living there than anywhere else. That is were many fled during the multiple wars. They live like they do in Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt, and Israel- as second and third class citizens at best. Just because more Palestinians live there does not make Jordan Palestine.

Did you know about Black September where more Palestinians were killed than ever killed by anyone and it wasn't Israelis or Jews who did it, it was a massacre, but not at all newsworthy because after all, since the media couldn't blame the Jews or Israel it didn't fit their agenda. 

I had several Middle East history courses between high school and college. I don't claim on having a grasp of everything down to the internal clan and tribal wars; but the major events I am aware of. Black September was a massacre; and just because the media didn't cover it doesn't diminish it any way. It just further proves that Jordan is not Palestine. 

Black September , Arabic Aylūl al-Aswad, also called Black September Organization (BSO) , breakaway militant faction of the Palestinian organization Fatah . The group was founded in 1971 to seek retribution on Jordan’s military and to assassinate Jordan’s King Hussein after they forcefully confronted the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) during an attempt to seize power from the monarch in September 1970. The name Black September was chosen to commemorate that violent Hashemite -Palestinian clash, during which thousands of Palestinians were either killed or expelled and the PLO was driven out of Jordan. Before its official dissolution in 1974, the faction also participated in attacks against Israeli and Western targets worldwide, notably the massacre of members of Israel’s Olympic team at the 1972 Summer Games in Munich .

In case you need further proof that Jordan is not Palestine. Listen to the Jordanians themselves.

This week, His Majesty King Abdullah of Jordan bluntly declared that there was no chance at all of a confederation combining Jordan and Palestine. He commented : “ Every year we hear a renewed talk of confederation. I say: “Confederation with whom? This is a red line for Jordan and all know Jordan’s firm and courageous stand on this. I am not worried regarding this matter ”. The fact that King Abdullah has ruled out such a possibility is hardly surprising. More surprising are the circumstances behind his being forced to do it again.

Jordan doesn't want to be responsible for pissed off Palestinians attacking Israel from Jordan and whatever Israel decides will remain of the West Bank; any more than Egypt wants to be responsible for the Gaza Strip. Israel has already proven they won't hesitate to attack any country that has Palestinians in it that attack them. Lebanon and Syria know that from repeated experience. Jordan is not nearly as strong militarily as Egypt and with a large Palestinian population might not come out on top on a second war with them. Especially with Israel taking out what little military they have in retaliation.

Oh, and in my opinion, it is the Palestinians who are the "occupiers" of Israeli land, ever since Israel conquered those lands in a defensive war, not the other way around.

Not according to several UN Security Council Resolutions, and the UN General Assembly. Of course people like to pick and choose when to heed the UN depending on how it rules for their interests. 

  And the Arabs who live in Israel as SO mistreated, they sit as judges, even on the Israeli Supreme Court, munical officials, teachers, medical staff in Israeli hospitals, have political parties as part of the Knesset, vote, serve in the IDF, carry on their businesses and pray in their mosques.  In fact, a poll taken some time ago indicated that the vast majority of them would rather remain in Israel than live in ANY ARAB COUNTRY.  I personally interviewed Arab doctors, nurses and staff in Netanya's Orthodox Jewish Laniado Hospital and they were completely satisfied with their life in Israel, and during Jewish holidays they are in complete control of the hospital.   Amazing, eh, - Have YOU ever interviewed Arabs who live in Israel

Yes Buzz, believe it or not I know Palestinians living in Israel; admittedly not nearly as many that live in the West Bank and Gaza. That includes one lawyer that has way too much business on his hands- his clients are Palestinians that are denied housing permits or expansions. It must gall the Palestinians to need him so much; as he married an American woman before returning to Israel to complete his law degree. She didn't even convert to Islam for him. He is very well off an wouldn't live anywhere else; of course the same cannot be said of his clients. 

Tell me, if the Palestinians in Israel are all so happy and have so many rights and better opportunities; why were they recently rioting?  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.25  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.24    3 weeks ago

Thanks for the good read.  I've posted elsewhere the legal background for the evictions of the squatters, and the reducing of the numbers at the gate was to comply with the coronavirus crowd restrictions, and the presence of the Israelis at the mosque was because the Arabs were pelting the Jews praying at the Western Wall with rocks etc.  So obviously the Arabs weren't happy with that and rioted.    Hey, you can believe what you read and are told and so can I and we can both go to sleep tonight satisfied that each of us is right even if we believe totally different perspectives.  I don't want to argue, I just want to enjoy reading all the anti-Israel biased news reports.

4d3dba70-31dc-0e7d-735f-d832593bddfd.png

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.26  Ronin2  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.24    3 weeks ago
have you ever even BEEN to Israel  I've been there more than once, even to the West Bank, and to Jordan and Egypt - and that does make me feel just a little bit knowledgeable of what I speak.

To answer your last question; no I have never been to Israel, West Bank, or Gaza. I was supposed to go there in the 1990's with my friend to visit his extended family in the West Bank & Gaza. We would have had to enter through Israel; and would have spent several days there sight seeing. I even had permission for the trip from Israel- despite my work with the Palestinian group. I canceled a few days before I was supposed to go. I was warned by the family in the West Bank I was to stay with that it wasn't safe for me to come. Seems that a few family members that were less than thrilled by my visit let it slip I was coming to some groups that would love to take a US citizen hostage. It was even less safe for me in Gaza. Me being an American outweighed any work I had done on behalf of the Palestinians. I left the organization shortly after that; but I tried to stay in touch with the friends I had made.

I have no plans on visiting there. If I travel; which at this point seems less and less likely. It is going to be around the US, including Alaska and Hawaii. As I have stated I am not a people person. The idea of dealing with any large amount of strangers doesn't appeal to me anymore. Neither do language and culture barriers when traveling abroad.

   

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
4.1.27  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.26    3 weeks ago

Have a good day.  Hawaii was great half a century ago when I was there - hope it still is for you.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2  Krishna  replied to  FortunateSon @4    4 weeks ago
Israel should bomb Hamas into oblivion.

Won't work...because Hamas wants that. The more Palestinians are killed, the more it gains them sympathy. (Remember, Hamas is not an "ordinary" government-- they are not ordinary politicians, nor are they true leaders. They are a barbaric terror organization. They could care less about any loss of Palestinian lives...well, actually they do-- the more deaths and suffering the better from their POV.

As a strong supporter of Israel (though not of its current government), I think the smart move for Israel would be to unilaterally declare a total cease fire! Not launch a single attack! And demand Hamas does the same.

What would that accomplish? it would call Hamas bluff (because based on much past experience, Hamas would not be ably to control themselves when it comes to killing Jews....once they start. And when that occurs (and Israes stands down) maybe some of the gullible folks who fall for  Hamas propaganda might finally wake up.

(Well, maybe some will...???)

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
4.2.1  charger 383  replied to  Krishna @4.2    4 weeks ago
They are a barbaric terror organization. They could care less about any loss of Palestinian lives...

That is why they should be removed and right now Israel has a chance to do that if they do not stop 

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2.2  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @4.2.1    4 weeks ago
That is why they should be removed and right now Israel has a chance to do that if they do not stop 

That's one option. 

And it will work-- for a while.

In fact, this is a situation that repeats every few years. Delusional Gazans think they can destroy Israel-- so they start a war, firing vast numbers of rockets at Israeli civilian targets. The world urges Israel to restrain themselves and not retaliate, but eventually they must. Eventually the Gazans come to their senses,and there's a cease fire....which keeps getting extended.

But then the urge come back! This time they're sure they can exterminate those pesky Jws, and the cycle begins again.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.2.3  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @4.2.2    3 weeks ago

I will agree with you except on one point.

Delusional Gazans think they can destroy Israel

It should be "Delusional Hamas radicals think they can destroy Israel". I don't think the leadership of Hamas, or the general population of Gaza that suffer the most from the retaliation, think they will win. Hamas removes all dissenters in Gaza. It isn't safe for Palestinians living there to speak out against them.

It is not like they can vote them out either when the last elections held were in 2006. Even with new elections chances are very slim Hamas will lose in Gaza; and with them gaining strength in the West Bank they may gain power there as well. The PA is corrupt, weak, fractured, and can't take a strong stance on anything in fear of risking Israel and US money.

Parliamentary and presidential elections - the first since 2006 - were scheduled to take place in May and July.

It was not immediately clear whether the presidential vote would go ahead.

It comes as Mr Abbas is facing unprecedented challenges from political rivals which could weaken his party's chance of success.

If elections are shelved, it would deal a blow to Palestinians hoping for a show of national unity after years of deep splits. Intra-factional violence in the wake of the last elections left them ruled by two governments - one led by Mr Abbas' Fatah party in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and the other by its Islamist militant Hamas opponents in the Gaza Strip.

Hamas recently warned Mr Abbas against cancelling the elections.

 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
4.3  dennis smith  replied to  FortunateSon @4    4 weeks ago

Absolutely, Hamas has no clue how to live and let live.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
5  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

"Israel fights to protect its civilians," the IDF tweeted Tuesday. "Hamas uses civilians to protect itself."

Rdaa4e79339fbc957972b6fd3c1ffc37a?rik=kVWPz7cn%2bM7law&riu=http%3a%2f%2fschmaltz.typepad.com%2f.a%2f6a00d83451c73c69e20120a53ba4b6970c-800wi&ehk=ZiXOTtfD0Y%2fJewjmoiZh%2bIwqFUZdIwdFvf7bfrIkdz8%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
6  Ronin2    4 weeks ago

The Palestinians really deserve better leadership than Hamas and the PA; but that is who they are stuck with.

Hamas doesn't give a shit about their people. It is simple as that. I don't understand how anyone can think they do? Hamas is never going to win a war with Israel, period. They simply don't have the arms, numbers, and training to do it. Even if their factions in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt all joined and went at it with everything they had they would still all lose. Hamas burned all of their bridges with the rest of the Arab world when they took money, weapons, and training from Iran. The rockets they are firing into Israel aren't doing anything but empowering Bibi; allowing him to rally the rest of Israel to his banner- and giving him an excuse for harsher retaliation. 

As for the PA, formerly the PLO. They care just as little about their people as Hamas does. The PA simply wants to stay in power; and they are in a very weak position. They need to appease the US and Israel to keep the money flowing in (to themselves); at the same time they need to try an look like they are not against Hamas. Hamas is creeping into the West Bank; and the PA's power is threatened. They may be forced out violently the same way they were in Gaza. Of course Israel isn't doing the PA any favors with their Separation Wall; and increased settlement expansion in the West Bank.

I feel badly for the Palestinian people; but until they ditch the PA and Hamas things are not going to get better.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ronin2 @6    4 weeks ago

It will take some very brave people to shed the PA and Hamas.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
6.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    4 weeks ago

Unfortunately that is about as likely to happen as a legitimate 3rd party forming in the US to challenge the Democrats and Republicans. 

There are a few Palestinian and Israeli businesses that are trying to work together; and form stronger bonds that benefit both sides. Unfortunately they are viewed as appeasers by the Palestinians; and will be so long as the Separation Wall and settlement expansion continue in the West Bank.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ronin2 @6.1.1    4 weeks ago

It is the grim reality.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.2  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @6    4 weeks ago
The Palestinians really deserve better leadership than Hamas and the PA; but that is who they are stuck with.

Oh the poor dears-- they have no say over who they choose to be their leaders...none!

/sarc

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
6.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @6.2    3 weeks ago

Do you know anyone in the West Bank and Gaza that disappeared? I do; and I know that Israel damn well didn't take them (or their friends and family). Defying Hamas or the PA isn't good for one's health. 

Again, the last elections were in 2006. They are supposed to be holding elections again shortly. Hamas stands the best chance of taking control of everything; and they know it. My only question is if the PA leadership will stay and fight; or take the money they have been hording and retire somewhere nicer leaving their foot solders and underlings to take fallout from a Hamas victory?

Given what happened in Gaza after they lost- they will be enjoying their lives with the rest of their families elsewhere; telling anyone that will listen how badly they feel for what is happening in he West Bank.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.3  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @6    4 weeks ago
I feel badly for the Palestinian people;

Actually I do to..

But.

Imagine you had a friend who was a serious alcoholic. Ruining his own life and that of his family. He keeps promising he's about to give it up. You feel great sympathy. Want to help him. Even loan him money. Spends hours giving him advice, trying to help him. But he never changes. 

So you're the prefect enabler....

(Anyone familiar with Alcoholics Anonymous or for that matter any 12 Step Program will recognize these sorts of  addictions).

But one day, you realize its hopeless-- you realize he's never going go to change.

In that analogy, the Palestinians (well, not every single one, but certainly the majority) are that alcoholic. They have an addiction-- an addiction to try to make the Middle east Judenfrei. (Based upon their own perverted interpretation of the Holy Koran). A goal they feel so strongly about that they're even willing to give up their life for it...

Perhaps what we need is a new 12 Step Group..."Palestinians Anonymous"?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.3.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @6.3    4 weeks ago

I remembered this and just sought it to post here.  It is Hamas' secret weapon against the Jews.

.

Column: Palestine must choose life over love of death

.

.

Dec 08, 2012  · We witnessed  Hamas'  chilling credo last month when  the  terrorist group created and released  a  video aimed at  the  public with one message:  "We  love  death more than you  love  life."  

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.3.2  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @6.3.1    4 weeks ago

 We witnessed  Hamas'  chilling credo last month when  the  terrorist group created and released  a  video aimed at  the  public with one message:  "We  love  death more than you  love  life."  

Here's a better link to the video-- although it may not work for you in China (?)

Also, this video is not about the terror group Hamas but rather the "more moderate" PA:

[Note: "Shada" means martyrdom-- seeking death for Allah. (Peace be Upon Him!)

WARNING: Some people may find this video to be extremely upsetting.

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
7  charger 383    4 weeks ago

Maybe Israel should cause a change in the government of Gaza

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.1  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @7    4 weeks ago
Maybe Israel should cause a change in the government of Gaza

They can't. 

You have to remember that Gaza is not an occupied territory it is an independent, Fascist state. .

Its not an "occupied territory" or a colony.... is a totally independent "Palestinian State"-- with total self rule.

And the government that they themselves have chosen is Hamas. its not a traditional political party-- its a terroist group ....maintaining total control by terror. (Not just against israel, but also against their own citizens).

Trying to create a change in the Palestinian Reich-let  would be like causing a change is an ISIS ruled Reichlet....

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @7.1    4 weeks ago

There's only one way to keep a brutal terrorist group like hamas under control-- occupy Gaza. 

Been there...done that.

Israel did occupy gaza for a while. 

And the economy was booming under israeli occupation.

But the Israel left and totally ended their occupation.

(They wanted to turn Gaza over to its previous rulers-- but they also didn't want ti!!!

So Gaza became independent and had self rule-- but the rule was by the terror organization Hamas.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  charger 383 @7    4 weeks ago

I think only America is good at doing that, like when they installed the Shah as leader of Iran. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.2.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2    4 weeks ago

The Shah was a stable influence on the middle east. The US under Jimmy Carter let him fall (another thing the US is good at.)

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.2.2  Kavika   replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2    4 weeks ago

Yeah, it's always a good thing when you overthrow a duly elected leader of a country at the behest of oil companies. /s

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.2.3  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2    3 weeks ago
I think only America is good at doing that, like when they installed the Shah as leader of Iran. 

I was thinking that the reason countries like the u.s. can do that is because we are such a great power. Not a good idea to disagree with us too strongly. Ditto Russia and other major powers. Smaller countries don't have that kind of power.

America love to tell other countries how to run their country, and we are generally sucessful.

A tiny country like Israel can't.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
7.2.4  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.2.1    3 weeks ago
The Shah was a stable influence on the middle east.

As was Stalin...and Hitler (until he was defeated).

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @7.2.3    3 weeks ago
"America love to tell other countries how to run their country, and we are generally sucessful."

America has been doing its damndest to tell China how to run its country but it's not having much success with that. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.2.6  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Krishna @7.2.4    3 weeks ago
As was Stalin...and Hitler (until he was defeated).

I think you mean the Ottoman Empire

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.2.7  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.5    3 weeks ago

I'll be glad to follow the China's lead in their handling of dissidents and criminals. 

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
8  charger 383    4 weeks ago

        "Black Lives Matter stands in solidarity with Palestinians,"

Like I needed another reason to dislike and not trust BLM.  

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
8.1  Krishna  replied to  charger 383 @8    3 weeks ago
  "Black Lives Matter stands in solidarity with Palestinians," Like I needed another reason to dislike and not trust BLM. 

I'm no fan of BLM either. But I think that sometimes their influence may be exxaggerated.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Masters Quiet
9  Ed-NavDoc    4 weeks ago

Two things Hamas and BLM have in common is that they are both radical and racist as can be!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
9.1  Krishna  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @9    3 weeks ago
Two things Hamas and BLM have in common is that they are both radical and racist as can be!

There are some differences however. Hamas are religious fanatics. .. a Brutal Theocracy. They also have total control of a country (or part of it...if you think "Palestine" should consist of both Gaza and The West Bank). And while BLM may have some radical ideas-- IIRC they stated goal is not to totally extermine their enemies...although is. (Its in their Charter...unless they finally changed it).

I don't like BLM, but I don't see it as a major threat. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Masters Quiet
9.1.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Krishna @9.1    3 weeks ago

To quote a line from the movie "Ladyhawke", "Great storms announce themselves with a single breeze, and a single random spark can ignite the fires of rebellion." That could potentially apply to BLM. Maybe a tad overdramatic, maybe not.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

What a stupid comment  The BLM is a movement, they are not racist.  

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
10.1  charger 383  replied to  Tessylo @10    4 weeks ago

Would you call "White Lives Matter" racist?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @10.1    4 weeks ago

As a response to Black Lives Matter?  YES

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
10.2  dennis smith  replied to  Tessylo @10    4 weeks ago

Yes they are.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
10.3  Krishna  replied to  Tessylo @10    3 weeks ago
  The BLM is a movement, they are not racist.  

A little off topic perhaps...but Michael Che and Colin Jost are rather zany comedians. In a recent skit Che (who is Black) jokingly says:

I'm the only Black Person that brave enough to say this on live TV but Blue Lives matter even more!

(You'd have to have been there ---> SEEDED VIDEO.)

Of course some people are probably too uptight to appreciate their "unconventional" sense of humor.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Masters Quiet
11  Ed-NavDoc    4 weeks ago

When one ethnic group promotes itself solely to the exclusion of others, it is in fact racist! I am a firm believer that all lives matter.

 
 
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