Mapping Israeli occupation
Thirteen maps explain how Israel’s military control over the Palestinian people affects every aspect of their lives.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
In the following series of graphics Al Jazeera describes why Israel’s military occupation of Palestine remains at the core of this decades-long conflict and how Israeli colonialism shapes every part of Palestinians’ lives.
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Every story has multiple viewpoints. Choosing one denies all others and history becomes just another broken toy fought over by ideologies that care not if the view is spoiled with bouncing rubble.
True, but doesn't this story also ignore the initial allocation of land to Israel and Palestine in 1946 and how Palestine and the Arab nations refused to accept it and went to war against Israel. And how Israel won that war, attempted to return the lands they had won but the Arab nations and Palestine refused to acknowledge Israel's right to exist so Israel kept that land? There are a lot of pieces to this conflict and from what I can see nobody really provides the full story.
The situation is complex (which of course those with a politicla agenda ignore).
IMO, a key question to ask is why there still isn't a Palestinian state-- an independent area ruled by Palestinians?
Here's the especially relevant part of history:
After World War II, in 1947, the UN adopted a Partition Plan for Mandatory Palestine recommending the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states.
The main point is that what had formerly been occupied by Britain was to be divided up so that there would be a (predominantly Jewish) Israeli state-- and a new (predominantly Muslim) country consisting of Gaza plus "The West Bank" ... that new country was to be called "Palestine".
But on the eve of independence, while an independent Israel was re-created-- "Palestine" (the West Bank and Gaza) was not created.
Why? Why didn't Gaza and the West Bank (formerly occupied by Britain) become a fully independent new country (to be called "Palestine"?) What happened to the West bank and the Gaza strip?
IMO, the answer to that single questions provides much insight as to why the current problem exists....
I subscribe to al Jazeera because I want to know their analysis... their very biased analysis, usually.
This is a good example. Everything is ''true'', in the same way that "Turkey is European" is true. It's not outright false, but very misleading.
To be taken with a boulder of salt!
Facts are facts, Bob. Israel has been doing this stuff illegally (against their UN Charter and other resolutions) for decades. All Israelis need to be pushed back the original boundaries of Israel form 1948. IMHO
There has been so much blood spilled by both sides.
Made me think of the old Star Trek episode.
"Let this be the last battlefield"
SPOCK: To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints is not logical.
SULU: But their planet's dead. Does it matter now which one's right?
SPOCK: Not to Lokai and Bele. All that matters to them is their hate.
UHURA: Do you suppose that's all they ever had, sir?
KIRK: No, but that's all they have left.
Apparently you are totally unfamilar with UN Resolution 242!
(And yet, apparently, you consider yourself well informed on this topic????)
Facts are indeed facts. But they can be cherry-picked.
Three-quarters of the original League of Nations' Palestinian Mandate were used by the mandated nation (the UK) for something other than Palestinians... or Jews. The Brits created what has become Jordan. During Black September (1970), more Palestinians were killed by Jordan than have been killed (since forever) by Israel. These facts are never mentioned, because they don't fit the destroy-Israel objective.
As for the 1948 borders... Israel did accept them. And then was promptly invaded by several Arab states with the intention of destroying the Jewish state. Ooooops!!
Finally... the ''legality'' question is hardly open and shut. It's not hard to make a case for Israel. I think you need to check a few more sources.
The last independent Palestine was a Christian Crusader-state a thousand years ago. The last Muslim government in Judea-Samaria was Jordan, which renounced all claims as part of its peace treaty with Israel. So... to whom do the "occupied territories" belong?
The Palestinian people is to be pitied, but their worst enemy is not Israel. Their worst enemy is Hamas.
Facts are facts, Bob. Israel has been doing this stuff illegally.
Yet when Gaza's terrorrist rulers (Hamas) fire rockets at Israeli civilian targets that's not illegal?
(Consider the possibility, if you will, that perhaps some of your facts are actually not real facts.... at all..?)
During Black September (1970), more Palestinians were killed by Jordan than have been killed (since forever) by Israel. These facts are never mentioned, because they don't fit the destroy-Israel objective.
Yes-- facts are facts!
But that one is never mentioned by apologists for the "Palestinians".(IBased on much ow what's been posted here on the topic,I can't help but wonder how many NT users know that-- in fact, have even heard of it?
Or, for that matter, UN Resolution 242..yet seem to believe that they are so well informed on the subject.
(My guess would be 5..or less? What do you think?)
The history of the Middle East is complicated. Convoluted. Few people make the effort to learn it.
A few lapidary phrases suffice for most.
I seeded this as a counterpoint to the other seeds on the issue of late. I have over time learned to mix either/or with neither/nor ... straddle the saddle to see both sides now.
Thank you Joni Mitchell, now that you are seeing both sides. The side you happened to omit when you first posted is that "International Law" (a term dreamed up by anyone who is trying to make a case even though there may not be such an animal and certainly no universally accepted court to enforce it) indicates that lands conquered by a defending state in a defensive war becomes the lands of the defending conquerer, and those residing within are the occupiers. That seems to draw a different picture than Israel being the occupyng force of lands that through "International Law" they now own no matter how many nations don't accept it in order to kowtow to the oil-rich nations of the world. On that legal basis the USA accepted the fact that the Golan Heights now legally belong to Israel,.
straddle the saddle to see both sides now
Sorta like you do when discussing, say, Trump and Biden?
(If not...why not?)
.
But don't you agree that Israel has way too much land.. .compared to the Arabs?
Isn't that unfair?
(Map shows Arab states in green, and Israel's YUGE area in red).
There's a point to your post?
Yes.
But I'm not going to tell you what it is!
(You seem like a smart guy...see if you can figure it out yourself!
)
Well... while Muslims have a bit more land, Israel has s-o-o-o many more people...
BRAVO KRISHNA, my very first NV friend whom I have always considered to have been my mentor.
Bob, I think the point is that notwithstanding the population, the Arabs consider Israel to be a thorn in its side, and doesn't have any right to be there.
Got to tell this story again. I was watching a talk show on CGTN last week where Hanan Ashrawi (the Palestinian mouthpiece) was a guest and when she said that the Palestinians were the indigenous people of Palestine and the Jews were mere recent colonists I actually jumped up and yelled "Where the hell do you think the Temple of David was built? Mexico? Where was Jesus of Nazereth born? Ireland? Where did 3000 years of Jewish history and residence in Israel disappear to?"
A fair amount of the "Palestinian" recent numbers are descendants of Arabs who came from surrounding nations to find jobs in the Jewish farms and businesses that were being developed in Israel Yasser Arafat, the true embodiment of a Palestinian was an Egyptian.
Went right over their heads, your comment did!
Actually My post may have been inadvertently misleading. The green area of that map is not a map of the Muslim world. Rather, it is a map of the Arab world (something like 20 or so countries IIRC).
If the green area was to show all the Muslim countries, the green area would be much much larger, as there are not a mere 20 Arab countries but rather 55 or so Muslim countries!
And then there's another masp that illustrates that Israel has too much land.
Saudi Arabia-- here's the size comparison of just one of those 20 Arab country's land area compared to the vast lands of Israel.
(A minor point-- Israel is actually a bit smaller than the area shown as Israel (Blue) actually erroneously includes an area that is not a part of Israel but actually a separate, independent Arab ruled area).
I think the point is that notwithstanding the population, the Arabs consider Israel to be a thorn in its side, and doesn't have any right to be there.
And worse yet-- when Israel gained independence it meant that there were now two non-Muslim country's in the area-- a total insult to many Muslims!
Well... while Muslims have a bit more land, Israel has s-o-o-o many more people...
That kinda reminds me of another important "trivia 'fact'":
Did you know that while the Moon is only one-sixth the size of the earth...its further away?
(Welcome to the magickal Land of Social edia!!!
My bad. (It's embarrassing to misinterpret a map!)
So those nine million Israelis are actually only facing about five hundred billion Arabs.
... much better...
I have noticed over time, your constant interest in maps (of all sorts).
That, and the way you relate to them.
That's one of the reasons I'm assuming of the 16 MBTI types, you are an ENTP!
(ENTP = "The Debater"...but often also called "the Visionary"). make of that what you will...
(As far as I know, there are only two confirmed ENTPs here-- myself and Kavika. And possibly you-- but that's a guess.)
Well, I've done it myself!
(Many people are saying that never-the-less I am quite brilliant. However I must admit that that there's absolutely no truth to that at all!)...
same as you and K??
okay... I can live with that...
I don't subscribe but I read their propaganda regularly.
(For the same reason watch I watch Fox news on a daily basis-- I want to know what they're telling their viewers...)
in the same way that "Turkey is European" is true.
How about: Russia is European?
In that regard those countries have something in common...well, three things actually!
Excellent article.......
Israel’s military occupation of Palestine remains at the core of this decades-long conflict.
Defenders of the Arab position love to throw around the term "Israeli Occupation".
Actually a better example is the use of the them "Illegally Occupied"!!!)
I wonder...what specifically does that term mean to them?
What areas, specifically, do people here consider to be be "illegally occupied" by Israel?
(Or do they just love to throw around that term ..and don't really know??? )
What's illegal about it?
How can Israel 'occupy' its own ancestral lands?
Holy shit, Greg. Keep this up and I'm going to apply to be your friend.
There were people there before there was an Israel. How far back do you want to go on the whole ancestral lands deal?
You want to claim might makes right and Israel can defeat anyone that wants to take it from them; then that is another argument. But; get prepared for wars on every front as there is land that every country wants from someone else; and many countries have the military to hold it. Or at least taking it back damn painful.
True. There were people in the region twenty thousand years ago, and Israel is only five thousand years old.
What's your point?
Are you trying to imply that that is a new phenomenon-- that's only really begun since Israel was created? (Actually there are some Arabs that actually do believe that).
And not only people.
There were also dinosaurs!
What areas, specifically, do people here consider to be be "illegally occupied" by Israel?
So far no response.
Why?
"Tis a mystery, eh?
Could it possibly be that no one here actually knows-- that they just like to throw out terms like "illegally occupied" because they think its sounds impressive...and that most uniformed people here will will believe it.?
Yeah, it's something like the Palestinian supporters constantly using the expression "contrary to international law".
I've always wondered-- WTF is "International Law" anyway?
Who makes it?
If any soverign country doesn't agree to these alledged "laws"-- do they still have to adhere to it?
And perhaps more importantly.....who, if anyone, enforces it?
Its just more bullsh*t to con the gullible!
ABSOLUTELY!!!
Yeah, it's something like the Palestinian supporters constantly using the expression "contrary to international law".
Reminds me of another fav:
"The World's Largest Outdoor Concentration Camp".
"apartheid"... "genocide"...
Anyone using these words concerning Palestine just proves they don't know the meaning.
Yeah, it's something like the Palestinian supporters constantly using the expression "contrary to international law".
Reminds me of another fav:
"The World's Largest Outdoor Concentration Camp".
I recommend a source called MEMRI . It excerpts ME media, including translations from the Arabic:
"Some Jews have humanity"????? How observant. The interviewer must have been thinking about Bernie Sanders. The rest of the Jews are savage barbarians, eh?