The End of the Line

It is now obvious why the discredited msm has backtracked on their claims of only a year ago that the idea of the Coronavirus escaping from the Wuhan Lab was a "conspiracy theory." What happened you ask? A FOIA request via Buzzfeed has revealed some interesting e-mails belonging to Dr Fauci. ( AKA the Mother Load) What we are learning is that Dr Fauci was deeply political and often dishonest. He will probably weather the storm as all leftist tools do, but his credibility & reputation are gone forever.
The e-mails reveal Dr Fauci knew of NIH funding for risky experiments in Wuhan. He also speaks to someone promoting a study that would counter the lab theory.
Then Dr Fauci made this statement:
"In a wide-ranging interview with National Geographic published Monday, Fauci said: "If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats, and what's out there now is very, very strongly leaning toward this [virus] could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated-the way the mutations have naturally evolved. A number of very qualified evolutionary biologists have said that everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that it evolved in nature and then jumped species."
https://abc7chicago.com/coronavirus-origin-conspiracy-theory-fauci-dr-anthony/6152892/
Why was Dr Fauci against the idea of the Wuhan Lab leak?
Because there was no telling how many millions would die from the virus coming from China. How would it look if we were all to find out that Dr Fauci approved US funding of those risky experiments?
Collectively, those e-mails (some were heavily redacted) show that Dr Fauci was extremely concerned that people may find out about such funding:
"The U.S. government banned funding for the gain of function research in 2014 but the Wuhan Institute of Virology was still operating and conducting the controversial research using U.S. taxpayer dollars. This funding was funneled unscrutinized to the EcoHealth Alliance by the NIAID led by Fauci to propel Wuhan studies on bat coronaviruses and allowed NIAID to hide research that they said didn’t meet the standard for “gain of function” from the Potential Pandemic Pathogens Control and Oversight Framework review board.
Fauci previously defended gain of function research in 2012 and said it might be worth it even if it caused a pandemic.
“In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic?” Fauci wrote. “Scientists working in this field might say — as indeed I have said — that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks.”
Just last month, Sen. Rand Paul blasted Fauci for denying that funding for the Wuhan lab that experimented with bat-based coronaviruses came from his department at the National Institutes of Health.
“Gain of function research, as you know, is juicing up naturally occurring animal viruses to infect humans. To arrive at the truth, the U.S. government should admit that the Wuhan Virology Institute was experimenting to enhance the coronavirus’s ability to infect humans,” Paul said during the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions hearing.
Fauci, however, denied that the super virus creation research by Ralph Baric, a U.S. virologist, and Shi Zhengli at the Wuhan Virology Institute was funded by the National Institutes of Health.
“Senator Paul, with all due respect, you are entirely, entirely, and completely incorrect,” Fauci said. “The NIH has not ever and does not now fund gain of function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Dr. Baric does not do gain of function research and if it is, it is according to the guidelines and is being conducted in North Carolina, not in China.”
Fauci also denied that the money that was funneled by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases to nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance “to study bat-based coronaviruses in China” including at the Wuhan lab was “gain-of-function.”
“If you look at the grant and you look at the progress reports, it is not gain-of-function, despite the fact that people tweet that, they write about it,” Fauci said."
https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/02/emails-show-fauci-downplayed-funding-gain-of-function-research-at-wuhan-lab/
E-mails show that Dr Fauci was warned as early as Jan 31, 2020:
"Kristian G. Andersen, a professor in Scripps' Department of Immunology and Microbiology, sent an email with the subject line "Science: Mining coronavirus genomes for clues to the outbreak's origins" to Fauci on the evening of Jan. 31, 2020.
"On a phylogenetic tree the virus looks totally normal and the close clustering with bats suggest that bats serve as the reservoir," Andersen wrote. "The unusual features of the virus make up a really small part of the genome (<0.1%) so one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered."
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/fauci-coronavirus-emails-genomic/2021/06/02/id/1023610/
The e-mails prove that Dr Fauci lied under oath before Congress.
Does anyone care to defend him now?
The utter fraudulence of Tony Fauci is now widely acknowledged. Joe Biden will most likely keep him on - another weight around his next. Who knows if the leftist media will even cove it. Was Jen Psaki asked any questions about Fauci yesterday?
What will become of the fraud who loved the powder blue shirts?
Actually, based on YOUR seed, it's merely FABRICATED by those who have a hard on for Fauci and China.
Here are some pertinent FACTS about the hair on fire bullshit in your seed.
Intelligent people like Dr. Fauci and Dr. Hugh Auchincloss do NOT send messages on their iPads if they are 'extremely concerned that people may find out'.
Additionally, as anyone who actually REVIEWED Dr. Fauci's emails would know, the 'paper' Dr. Auchincloss spoke of was published in NOVEMBER 2015. Nature Medicine's Editor added this disclaimer to the top of that article:
There are 27 references attached to the 'paper', ALL of which are studies done PRIOR to 2014.
Those that actually reviewed the Dr. Fauci's emails would also recognize your statement about Fauci's emails is a bald faced lie.
The EcoHealth Alliance grant was made in JUNE of 2014, BEFORE the U.S. government banned funding for the 'gain of function' research in OCTOBER of 2014.
The Potential Pandemic Pathogens Control and Oversight Framework review board was NOT created until JANUARY of 2017 so there were NO P3CO 'gain of function' standards for the NIAID to 'hide' from.
Those facts alone prove that ALL of your innuendo adds up to is a big fat NOTHING burger.
But thanks for playing...
The utter fraud of the content of your seed has been proven.
But WAIT, there's MORE...
THAT is a LIE.
Kristian G. Anderson REPLIED to an email FROM Dr. Fauci.
The ACTUAL subject line of her email is " Re: FW : Science: Mining coronavirus genomes for clues to the outbreak's origins.
On Jan. 31st, Dr. Fauci forwarded the article entitled ' Mining coronavirus genomes for clues to the outbreak's origins' written by Jon Cohen for 'Science' that same day to Andersen.
But WAIT, there's MORE...
Kristian G. Andersen indeed DID look much more closely and published those findings in Nature Medicine on March 17, 2020. The pertinent part of the summary states: Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.
Here's a link:
Having fun yet Vic?
Which is exactly what Dr Fauci wanted him to do.
Having fun yet Vic?
How about you?, twisting and turning to support fucking frauds.
[deleted]
What are you doing here? Are they going to change the rules again for you?
[Deleted]
It was a one time thing. I couldn't resist
I needed a smoke. But good bye
I'm glad I resisted. It would have been WWIII
So long
YOU have no fucking clue what Dr. Fauci'w emails prove because YOU haven't bothered to actually READ them yourself. Instead, your seed intentionally includes questionable 'media' sources that feed you the narrative you want to hear and you regurgitate here.
Since your seed utterly FAILS to present even ONE substantive allegation against Dr. Fauci, NO ONE needs to defend him. As 'our' readers can see, I have proven that all one needs do is debunk the BULLSHIT in your seed with FACTS. The fact than NO ONE, including the seeder, has even attempted to debate those FACTS speaks for itself.
No I haven't read all of them. The good doctor was laughing and giggling with his fellow liars the other day when he told us there were about 10,000 e-mails and couldn't recall what was in them.
Since your seed utterly FAILS to present even ONE substantive allegation against Dr. Fauci, NO ONE needs to defend him.
Even with your Bull Shit you can't defend him.
Link?
Oh and the number of emails is IRRELEVANT. You and your sources made specific allegations, NONE of which are proven by anything in YOUR seed or it's hyperlinks.
AGAIN, your seed utterly FAILS to present even ONE substantive allegation against Dr. Fauci, NO ONE needs to defend him.
Oh and BTFW Vic, I haven't seen you even try to refute ONE WORD of my comments in this thread. If what I posted is bullshit, post an argument. You've had almost a whole day to come up with something, ANYTHING, yet you have failed to say word one of substance.
So please DO add to the conversation. I'm running out of material in your seed to eviscerate.
I'll let your beloved Dr Fauci speak for himself. I trust you won't find the questioner too "hostile."
"Why Did You Dismiss The Lab-Leak Theory?": Rubio Grills Fauci On Past Statements Of COVID-19 Origin
Please not where Tony Fauci is now. He's finally admitted to the possibility!
Now it's all possible. Maybe some day he will join Robert Redfield and be able to say it is likely, but of course is Fauci was involved in research at the Wuhan Lab, he is going to be a little more reluctant to admit what the lying msm is beginning to concede.
Just another unfounded conclusion Vic. No surprise.
It's about fucking time. Dr. Fauci stated: "I didn't dismiss anything. I just said it is a high likelihood that this is a natural occurrence, from the environment of an animal reservoir, that we have not yet identified."
'Given everything that he's decided', I don't find Rubio 'hostile', I find him clueless.
By the 'lying msm' you must mean your sources, all of whom published bullshit which unfortunately you insisted on regurgitating here.
No, to the contrary, despite how cautious Fauci has been with his words, he did dismiss the idea early on.
Dr. Fauci stated: " I didn't dismiss anything . I just said it is a high likelihood that this is a natural occurrence, from the environment of an animal reservoir, that we have not yet identified."
That's what he says now, but many of us remember what he said before:
"The best evidence shows the virus behind the pandemic was not made in a lab in China," Dr. Anthony Fauci said in an exclusive interview with National Geographic published on Monday. "Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species."
He added that he doesn't believe the alternate theory that someone discovered coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab and then it accidentally unleashed it on the public.
.
The e-mails have shown, despite all the parsing of words from Fauci and his supporters that he dismissed it privately as well:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/06/04/a_tough_week_for_tony_fauci_lessons_from_special_elections_and_is_joel_kotkin_right_that_there_will_be_a_middle_class_revolt_against_progressivism.html#!
'Given everything that he's decided', I don't find Rubio 'hostile', I find him clueless.
"clueless" how? You don't mean like feeble-minded feminists who follow the leader?
Calling it "Bullshit" is of no value and belongs with the other no value comments that remain on this page.
PROVE IT Vic. You should have no problem QUOTING Fauci doing so.
I note that your source fails to QUOTE what Fauci ACTUALLY said.
Here's a question for you Vic. If coronavirus was discovered in the wild, HOW the fuck could it be 'accidentally unleashed on the public'? Please be specific.
Again, PROVE IT Vic.
As illustrated by MY 1.3 comment, the emails are available. YOU labeled them "AKA the Mother Load" yet the ONLY email you have actually QUOTED contains TWO WORDS written by Fauci. I await your QUOTED evidence from the emails that Fauci 'dismissed it privately'.
'Given everything that he's decided', it's obvious.
No. I mean feeble minded conservatives who swill the pabulum that their like minded sources feed them, who then try to get others to follow suit.
I PROVED that your sources published bullshit and you haven't even tried to make an argument to refute my comments Vic.
I'm sure 'our readers' fully understand why YOU judge comments that PROVE that the content of your seed is false are of 'no value'. They are however of value to other members who actually value FACTS.
What is with the R focus on trying to discredit Fauci? Rubio here is doing his best to discredit Fauci and Fauci simply repeated what he has said all along. And what Fauci has said is simple to understand. Fauci has stated that the COVID-19 virus does not show markers which would evidence human tampering (think of detecting a 'photoshopped' picture). He never stated that the virus necessarily was natural; he never denied the possibility of it appearing artificially. His statement was that the evidence that he has seen suggests natural rather than artificial.
Instead of accepting his opinion and the science-based reasoning he has offered, select Rs twist what he said into: 'Fauci declares that the virus could not possibly be artificially derived and did not come from Wuhan.' That twist is a bald-faced lie.
And when dishonest tactics like this are noted, the attack dog mentality deems this to be 'defending Fauci'. It is defending honesty and objectivity and rejecting partisan-based dishonesty.
See, Vic, I for one want to know the truth. I do not have a presupposition based on partisanship. I do not care about Fauci or any of the other talking heads in this scenario. I care about evidence and the approximation to truth that it will yield. Note that you seed attack articles on Fauci rather than articles seeking to identify the origin of the virus. That suggests a concern about discrediting Fauci more than getting to the truth.
As I have noted to you, it is logical (to me) that this virus accidentally escaped from Wuhan. My hypothesis is that this is a natural form of the virus (not artificial) that was within the Wuhan facility and escaped into the population by human error. The sickened Wuhan workers and Wuhan's nature of research and epicenter location is key evidence in support of this hypothesis. But, I would not be surprised if this virus leaped species via other methods such as the wet markets. That is, it is possible that the Wuhan labs are not the source of the pandemic.
What we need to do is look at the actual evidence (not the spin) and get to the bottom of this based on facts. Trying to get to the truth with an incessant game of dishonest gotcha is partisan bullshit. If one wants the truth, one needs to objectively follow the evidence.
In short, constantly attacking Fauci by reinterpreting what he has said or written is gratuitous partisan game playing.
thank you for placing it in the nutshell, as usual fax not machined to their liking, need modified and manipulated to include bias, and i believe they've bought enough to open a chain of brothels, and as usual, you are correct about their intent, as it is to damage Fauci, never to actually get to the full truth, as that is just an impediment to their sediment, rooted in the germination that infected our entire world and nation, and many of US died due to Trumps' ignorant interpretation, yet, they remain fixated on the Scientist, NEVER the LIAR IN CHIEF SELLING the DISBELIEF
Partisan 'thinking' often yields bullshit.
there is bovine excrement a plenty to go around and then some
Latching on to the attack on Dr. Fauci via partisanship is also an intentional and blatant complicity in the lies spun about him.
But we know some are not actually interested in truth or actual evidence. Only in partisanship and whatever tales it may spin.
Starting with the two lefties winking at each other. The science actually leads to the Wuhan lab theory:
"But the most compelling reason to favor the lab leak hypothesis is firmly based in science. In particular, consider the genetic fingerprint of CoV-2, the novel coronavirus responsible for the disease Covid-19.
In gain-of-function research, a microbiologist can increase the lethality of a coronavirus enormously by splicing a special sequence into its genome at a prime location. Doing this leaves no trace of manipulation. But it alters the virus spike protein, rendering it easier for the virus to inject genetic material into the victim cell. Since 1992 there have been at least 11 separate experiments adding a special sequence to the same location. The end result has always been supercharged viruses.
A genome is a blueprint for the factory of a cell to make proteins. The language is made up of three-letter “words,” 64 in total, that represent the 20 different amino acids. For example, there are six different words for the amino acid arginine, the one that is often used in supercharging viruses. Every cell has a different preference for which word it likes to use most.
In the case of the gain-of-function supercharge, other sequences could have been spliced into this same site. Instead of a CGG-CGG (known as “double CGG”) that tells the protein factory to make two arginine amino acids in a row, you’ll obtain equal lethality by splicing any one of 35 of the other two-word combinations for double arginine. If the insertion takes place naturally, say through recombination, then one of those 35 other sequences is far more likely to appear; CGG is rarely used in the class of coronaviruses that can recombine with CoV-2.
In fact, in the entire class of coronaviruses that includes CoV-2, the CGG-CGG combination has never been found naturally. That means the common method of viruses picking up new skills, called recombination, cannot operate here. A virus simply cannot pick up a sequence from another virus if that sequence isn’t present in any other virus.
Although the double CGG is suppressed naturally, the opposite is true in laboratory work. The insertion sequence of choice is the double CGG. That’s because it is readily available and convenient, and scientists have a great deal of experience inserting it. An additional advantage of the double CGG sequence compared with the other 35 possible choices: It creates a useful beacon that permits the scientists to track the insertion in the laboratory.
Now the damning fact. It was this exact sequence that appears in CoV-2. Proponents of zoonotic origin must explain why the novel coronavirus, when it mutated or recombined, happened to pick its least favorite combination, the double CGG. Why did it replicate the choice the lab’s gain-of-function researchers would have made?
Yes, it could have happened randomly, through mutations. But do you believe that? At the minimum, this fact—that the coronavirus, with all its random possibilities, took the rare and unnatural combination used by human researchers—implies that the leading theory for the origin of the coronavirus must be laboratory escape.
When the lab’s Shi Zhengli and colleagues published a paper in February 2020 with the virus’s partial genome, they omitted any mention of the special sequence that supercharges the virus or the rare double CGG section. Yet the fingerprint is easily identified in the data that accompanied the paper. Was it omitted in the hope that nobody would notice this evidence of the gain-of-function origin?
But in a matter of weeks virologists Bruno Coutard and colleagues published their discovery of the sequence in CoV-2 and its novel supercharged site. Double CGG is there; you only have to look. They comment in their paper that the protein that held it “may provide a gain-of-function” capability to the virus, “for efficient spreading” to humans.
There is additional scientific evidence that points to CoV-2’s gain-of-function origin. The most compelling is the dramatic differences in the genetic diversity of CoV-2, compared with the coronaviruses responsible for SARS and MERS.
Both of those were confirmed to have a natural origin; the viruses evolved rapidly as they spread through the human population, until the most contagious forms dominated. Covid-19 didn’t work that way. It appeared in humans already adapted into an extremely contagious version. No serious viral “improvement” took place until a minor variation occurred many months later in England.
Such early optimization is unprecedented, and it suggests a long period of adaptation that predated its public spread. Science knows of only one way that could be achieved: simulated natural evolution, growing the virus on human cells until the optimum is achieved. That is precisely what is done in gain-of-function research. Mice that are genetically modified to have the same coronavirus receptor as humans, called “humanized mice,” are repeatedly exposed to the virus to encourage adaptation.
The presence of the double CGG sequence is strong evidence of gene splicing, and the absence of diversity in the public outbreak suggests gain-of-function acceleration. The scientific evidence points to the conclusion that the virus was developed in a laboratory.
Dr. Quay is founder of Atossa Therapeutics and author of “Stay Safe: A Physician’s Guide to Survive Coronavirus.” Mr. Muller is an emeritus professor of physics at the University of California Berkeley and a former senior scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
But don't bother with a civil conversation Gordy, just keep trying to smear people.
To whom are you referring? If you are implying that I'm a "lefty," then your presumption and characterization of me is both inaccurate and dishonest.
I'm sure the irony of that statement is lost on you.
Yeah that looks like his new attack. Disagree with his over-the-top attacks on Fauci (and now on Collins) and you are ipso facto a 'lefty'.
Followed by personal and ad hom attacks, while expressing some kind of concern over the civility of a discussion. Too funny.
To you and your buddy. You know the one that votes up your smears.
If you are implying that I'm a "lefty," then your presumption and characterization of me is both inaccurate and dishonest.
How about responding to the facts I just hit you with?
It is hard to refute facts, right? It's so much easier to call someone "dishonest" or "biased" and dealing in spin. Speak right up Gordy, you always tell us how YOU believe in science. Defend your claim or your buddy's claim that it's a "conspiracy theory." Even the New York Times has changed that title.
Let's here it.
Don't like your own medicine?
More personal attacks I see.
I don't have to. TiG has already responded to your posts far better than I could.
Let me know when you get some that do not include a partisan spin or personal bias.
When did I ever say I "believe" in science Vic? I try not to go by belief. I accept science based on the evidence.
Is that your idea of a "civil conversation" Vic?
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T!
TiG has already responded to your posts far better than I could.
TiG has done nothing but call me names.
So that's all either of you have?
Got it!
[Deleted]
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better Vic.
Then you haven't been paying attention.
[Deleted]
Funny how you engage in the same kind of reply that you accuse TiG and myself of. Yeah, keep up that "civil conversation" Vic.
[Deleted]
The one you refused to engage in. The minute you started those little sidebar comments with TiG, Sp should have given you a ticket, like he has to others.
My posts here are relatively few. And I have not violated the CoC.
If that's what you really think, then flag them and make your case.
Meta combined with personal attacks.
[Deleted]
More intellectual dishonesty. No wonder you get my positions wrong, you apparently do not read my comments.
That 'what' is a conspiracy theory? Be specific.
This paper, best I can tell, has never been published to the scientific community for peer review. Peer review is part of the scientific method; it is used to mitigate opinions being passed off as science. There are, best I can tell, NO peer reviews of Dr. Quay's work. That means that nobody has reviewed his work, attempted to recreate and verify his findings and then published their own findings.
Maybe Quay is right and there is a massive conspiracy by the worldwide scientific community to cover up. Maybe Quay has a reason for not submitting his work for peer review by the world's scientists.
I would like to know, but right now all that we have is a report from Dr. Quay. The lack of peer review bugs me. It should bug you too.
Still waiting for you to do so Vic.
Seems like you have come to that conclusion since you haven't even tried to refute the facts I posted DAYS ago.
BTW, Dr. Quay's study doesn't look to have been peer reviewed even though it was published in JANUARY.
But hey, I'm not surprised that you believe his unreviewed research over the dozens of other peer reviewed studies that have been published in MUCH more highly regarded scientific publications. He says everything you want to hear...
Waiting, still waiting.
The End of the Line (link)
Oh, they were funny! At least I thought so.
Anthony Fauci is correct that there isn't evidence that the coronavirus was created by direct genetic modification. There isn't any evidence that DNA was snipped and spliced to create SARS-CoV-2. But Fauci used that fact to obscure rather than elucidate.
Zoonotic spillover only requires contact between the animal host and humans. That certainly doesn't eliminate the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the origin of first infections. Animal/human contact in the wild, at wildlife farms, and at biolabs would involve the same animals and the same virus.
We know the Wuhan Institute was creating a database of coronavirus genomes. So there was definitely human contact with both animals and coronaviruses; first to collect samples and then to identify the virus. The questions about the Wuhan Institute concerns safeguards and safety protocols. If the Wuhan Institute was sloppy then the risk of a lab leak was much higher. And gain-of-function research at a sloppy biolab would only elevate the risk of spreading a deadly human disease outside the lab.
Fauci is a bureaucrat first and scientist second. Fauci has been attempting to obscure that the NIAID was funding research with a high degree of risk without proper review of safeguards. Apparently the funding provided the Wuhan Institute was politically motivated to circumvent the moratorium on gain-of-function research in the United States. That alone creates a perception that Fauci was making a political statement about the moratorium within the bureaucracy. Fauci, the bureaucrat, has consistently been an advocate of gee-whiz science to demonstrate his relevancy within the bureaucracy. Fauci has been playing bureaucratic politics all along.
The thought has entered my mind as well. Can you imagine the outrage at any US official who signed off on that?
The hell of it is that Congress knows (or should know) because Congress authorized the program and provided the money. The question is whether or not the budget request by Fauci's NIAID obscured the intent and purpose of any funding requests. Fauci has demonstrated bureaucratic skill for using facts to obscure intent.
Retaining a fairly high profile administrative position requires more skills and talents than scientific expertise. Fauci remaining director of NIAID for so long is clear evidence that Fauci is adept at bureaucratic politics. Fauci hasn't kept that position because of his knowledge of science; he's good at obtaining money from Congress, too. The question is whether or not Congress understood what they were funding.
Blame...point fingers...
Blame...point fingers...
Blame...
Same old song and dance.
I guess for some it is easier to throw out blame and accusations than actually look forward and toward solutions.
This Just In:
"It will be decades before we know the true cost of the coronavirus pandemic. The virus killed millions across the globe, forced countless small businesses closed, and made billions of people prisoners in their homes. But the impact on our children and long-term health effects won’t be known for some time.
No effort should be spared to understand COVID-19 ’s origins. We cannot ignore common-sense possibilities just because they’re inconvenient for one political party or one nation.
It was never "conspiratorial" to suggest that the first human infection of the coronavirus could have resulted from a laboratory accident.
It doesn’t take an overactive imagination to grasp human infallibility, or to wonder why a coronavirus pandemic might first break out in exactly the same city that hosted a laboratory specifically studying this class of viruses.
Some scientists were cautious to remain open to a range of possibilities, but others, like Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. dismissed the idea that the virus could have come from a lab. It was a massive failure in judgment for a prominent public health official -- though in retrospect unsurprising, given his history of holding back the truth based on personal judgments about when he thinks the American people are "ready" to hear the facts.
In most science-based jobs, that would be a fireable offense, but Fauci ran free without any accountability. Meanwhile, some of his peers who sought to raise questions about the possibility of a lab leak were silenced.
When asked recently why he had dismissed the lab leak hypothesis given what we knew about the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), Fauci replied , "I didn’t dismiss anything."
That’s an outright lie. In a May 2020 interview , with National Geographic he scoffed at the suggestion that "scientists found the virus outside the lab, brought it back, and then it escaped," adding that "[the virus] was in the wild to begin with. That's why I don't get what they're talking about [and] why I don't spend a lot of time going in on this circular argument."
But no one knows whether this coronavirus, which scientists call SARS-CoV-2, was even "in the wild to begin with." Fauci cites "historical experience," but no one has found bats hosting this virus or its direct progenitor.
The lab leak argument is not "circular," and it presents a plausible answer to a puzzling question: If this virus came from bats, how did bats living in Yunnan more than 1,100 miles away manage to infect humans in Wuhan?
The initial explanation, the wet market, has not panned out. Bats were not sold there, and no animal intermediary was found. Even Beijing has said the market was not the spillover site. Fauci’s two main precedents, SARS-CoV-1 and MERS, did not suffer from this problem, nor was a nearby lab working on coronaviruses at the time of those outbreaks.
WIV researchers traveled to Yunnan many times to study bat coronaviruses. It is only reasonable to ask whether they transported bats, or samples from bats, back to Wuhan and accidentally infected themselves.
Photos online showed the handling of bats without proper protection. In 2018, U.S. diplomats visited the WIV’s new BSL-4 lab and warned of problems. The WIV mostly conducted coronavirus research in less secure BSL-2 and BSL-3 labs. SARS-CoV-1 escaped several times from labs in China, Singapore, and Taiwan.
WIV researchers identified the closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2, a bat virus called RaTG13, which they sampled from a mineshaft in Yunnan. They were reportedly studying it for years before the pandemic, but did not publish any findings.
What if they also conducted unpublished research on SARS-CoV-2? How do we know that the difference between the genomic structures of these two viruses, roughly four percent, was not generated by gain-of-function research at the WIV?
Such a possibility offers potential reasons for why unelected bureaucrats in our scientific establishment immediately worked to discredit the lab leak explanation.
Dr. Fauci has now infamously denied that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) funded gain-of-function research at the WIV, but that was a lie by omission. In 2015, researchers at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and the WIV teamed up to conduct a gain-of-function study funded largely by U.S. taxpayers. Only the Americans were funded by NIH, but the WIV received a sub-grant from USAID.
Flush with American funding, what exactly did they do? The Chinese researchers inserted a key genetic component of a bat coronavirus called a spike protein into the backbone of an artificial mouse version of SARS-CoV-1. The result was a pathogen found nowhere in nature, one that could "cause robust infection" in human cells. The WIV provided the spike protein sequences for this chimeric creation. The spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 is also what makes that virus so infectious to humans.
Fauci is exploiting his position in government -- and his ill-deserved positive reputation in the liberal media -- to willfully misrepresent what is meant by a lab leak, conflating it with a biological weapons program (which is just one possible motive for gain-of-function research in Wuhan). That, or he's showing his age.
Our work to shed light on COVID-19’s origins has just begun, but one thing is clear: Dr. Anthony Fauci has repeatedly demonstrated a history of moving goal-posts when it comes to public health, withholding facts that don’t conform with his own narrative, and issuing inappropriate personal judgments that distort the truth.
During the campaign, Biden said, "I'll choose science over fiction."
Now is his chance to make good on that promise and fire Dr. Fauci."

.....................Senator Marco Rubio
More bullshit from a bias source. Your source truncated Fauci's statement in order to make a FALSE allegation. Disgusting.
Would you seek to discredit Dr. Francis Collins too? Do you know the scientific credentials and personal history of this man?:
In short, Dr. Collins holds that the virus is absolutely not man-made and most likely jumped species naturally, but it is certainly possible that it was under study at Wuhan and accidentally wound up in the population. Nobody knows at this point.
Dr. Collins has an impeccable reputation for competence and honesty. Is he lying now?
Cool. Why don't we know what animal was? It was easy to track how SARS mutated and jumped to humans. It's been a year and a half and nothing. .
How much energy do you think China has expended trying to find that link?
Because we have not yet found sufficient evidence to be that specific.
Well maybe China is not being cooperative.
I expect that China is doing what it can to make this whole scenario go away. Obviously they do not want to be blamed for a worldwide pandemic so ambiguity works in their favor.
Again, why not? historically, it's not that difficult to trace this. Yet, here, nothing.
Well maybe China is not being cooperative.
Of course not. But they are desperately trying to prove a species jump. If the link existed, they would have found it and publicized it by now.
In fact, there are now reports that US intelligence believes China is trying to produce variants that suggest it came from bats. Who could reject the idea that China would do that?
tbviously they do not want to be blamed for a worldwide pandemic so ambiguity works in their favor.
What works more is actual evidence of a species jump, which they should have been able to provide by now, if it happened. Ambiguity only works in their favor if they are engaged in a cover up and that's the best result they can hope for.
Maybe somebody ATE it...
The advantage that conspiracy theorists have is that anything is POSSIBLE.
Are you unable to comprehend what I just wrote? We do not have the facts to be specific about the actually species. And those facts are likely difficult to get because China is likely not being cooperative.
Read my comment. My answer was clearly written.
Okay, so you think China wants specifics. So what is your hypothesis as to why they have not found the species jump? Let me guess, your hypothesis is that they are covering up for Wuhan. That might be true. So where do you go from here? Yes, Sean, China no doubt does not want to be blamed for enabling a worldwide pandemic. They will likely act in a manner that, to them, best keeps them off the radar as much as is possible.
Ambiguity is a great way for this to fade away. It is a cloud of smoke that enables China to escape blame because nobody knows for sure what happened.
Of course. Can you try and comprehend what I actually wrote?
e do not have the facts to be specific about the actually species
Hold on to your hat, because this may blow your mind. Maybe that species doesn't exist. Can you grasp that possibility?
And those facts are likely difficult to get because China is likely not being cooperative.
That is the one fact that China has incentive to discover. Can you not grasp that? Do you imagine China isn't doing everything in it's power to find evidence of a natural jump, even if it has to invent it?
So what is your hypothesis as to why they have not found the species jump?
Do I need to spell it out? There was no naturally occurring species jump.
Ambiguity is a great way for this to fade away.
no, exculpatory evidence is a great way for it it to fade away. "ambiguity", if that's how you want to describe the circumstantial evidence pointing to a lab leak, is only better than direct proof of a lab leak.
LOL. Now that's a conspiracy theory.
I write that the Virus might have come from Wuhan and you ask if I can comprehend that it might not have jumped species.
WTF is the problem here Sean? I write clear answers and you somehow manage to not comprehend what I just wrote.
Almost as if you are here to try to twist what I write.
No, in fact I explicitly stated what I thought you were implying. Again, you fail to acknowledge clear English.
A specific story can be picked apart and discredited. A vague cloud of doubt yields all sorts of conflicting hypotheses. Confusion is a great method of deflecting blame.
you tell me. You seem incapable of grasping that the lack of any evidence, after almost a year and a half, of either the original bat population or of any intermediate species to which the virus might have jumped is evidence that such a jump never occurred.
When you write things like "we do not have the facts to be specific about the actually specie" you are implying that such a species must exist.
Again, you fail to acknowledge clear English.
Is this clear English? "" We do not have the facts to be specific about the actually species. And those facts are likely difficult to get because China is likely not being cooperative." I'm doing the best I can.
A specific story can be picked apart and discredited.
So that's your argument. China believes it's better to not provide evidence of it's innocence, and instead allow compelling circumstantial evidence of it's guilt to fester. So if you are accused of murder, you'd suppress evidence that establishes your innocence, and prefer to keep the question of your guilt ambiguous and hope the issues just fades away.
I fundamentally disagree with that.
You again ignore what I write and declare the ridiculous. The lack of CONCLUSIVE evidence means that the hypotheses of a species jump is not confirmed. I have explicitly stated that the Wuhan lab hypothesis is on the table and that the natural species jump is on the table. It is evidence, not the lack thereof, that will change this state.
You do not understand those words?? The problem lies with you.
I have stated a plausible reason (in response to your question) why China would seek to keep the world confused about this virus. In short, a cloud of confusion produces contradictory hypotheses and people (the public) eventually stop paying attention.
If China could conclusively convince the planet (which would correlate with your analogy) that this virus emerged from a zoonotic path they would be best served to do that. But, as I explained to you, if the specifics they have are not rock solid (likely) then the story will be picked apart. I would not be surprised if China is purposely withholding specifics and keeping the world confused because they have calculated that confusion is better for them than releasing the specifics they have.
You make these pronouncements, but never produce any evidence to support them.. If you feel you must engage in them, feel free to do so, but maybe try proving an argument instead?
e lack of CONCLUSIVE evidence means that the hypotheses of a species jump is not confirmed.
No shit. Who was claiming it was confirmed? Why are you emphasizing it like you proved some point in contention?
I claimed there is NO evidence of after almost a year and a half of either the original bat population or of any intermediate species to which the virus might have jumped. You still have not rebutted this.
It is evidence, not the lack thereof, that will change this state.
First, where is the evidence of a natural jump?
But I don't think you understand how evidence works. Lack of evidence, can in fact be evidence. Ever read Sherlock Holms? The lack of any evidence of a natural jump, such as was easily procured for SARS1, is evidence that it's did not occur naturally. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.
I have stated a plausible reason (in response to your question) why China would seek to keep the world confused about this virus
And I disagree. I believe China would in fact produce evidence of it's innocence, if it existed. I don't believe China would cover up evidence of a natural origin (even if such evidence stops short of being conclusive) in favor of letting the damming circumstantial evidence of a lab leak go unrebutted. After all, circumstantial evidence can get someone the death penalty.
Actually Sean, it's called a postulation.
LOL. Call it whatever you want. It's the most scientifically illiterate thing mentioned here yet. Calling it a conspiracy theory was probably too kind on my part.
What pronouncements are you referring to?
I did not say you claimed that. I was supporting my point. Pay attention. You wrote (and I quoted you):
I wrote:
My point has been that the lack of CONCLUSIVE evidence would be a reason for China to hold back on evidence they do have. Again, it makes sense (at least to me) that China would not release partial results if they feel same could be discredited (and thus go against their objectives).
My comments are not difficult to follow.
You are waiting for me to rebut that which I agree?? Instead of trying to find something to argue, try paying attention to what I write. Where do you see me claiming that there WAS evidence found?
There are no markers on the virus that suggest artificial gain-of-function. Thus the evidence currently points to natural evolution. Other than that, I am not aware of any specific evidence of a natural jump. Similarly, we do not have evidence that the origin was Wuhan lab. We are currently in a state where both possibilities are on the table. You get that, right?
In the extreme, certainly. Lack of evidence of God, for example, after thousands of years and billions of people trying to find same is evidence that God might not exist. Lack of evidence of a species jump after 1.5 years does not compare. This could be one animal infecting a single human being. If so, we may never find the animal. It might be dead. The lack of evidence of a species jump does not rule out the hypothesis any more than the lack of evidence supporting accidental release from the lab rules out an accident. Both hypotheses remain on the table.
Fictional stories from a fictional character are irrelevant.
You think they would produce weak evidence that can be picked apart? My point is that they would produce CONCLUSIVE evidence that would clear their name but would not produce evidence if it did not meet that criterion. This should be obvious. The Chinese government is going to present itself in the best light. If they do not have CONCLUSIVE evidence that clears them then the current situation of obfuscation is a logical course of action.
Did you read my comment from Dr. Francis Collins that started this sub-thread @ 8.2 ?:
Note in particular:
“The genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2 has a number of unanticipated features that are not consistent with what international experts would have expected from an emerging and dangerous coronavirus,”
Dr. Collins has a distinguished resume and is not known for incompetence or dishonesty.
And my point is that makes no sense.
Instead of trying to find something to argue, try paying attention to what I writ
LOl. Physician, heal thyself.
There are no markers on the virus that suggest artificial gain-of-function. Thus the evidence currently points to natural evolution
You've been manipulated
I'll quote Nicholas Wade:
"Unfortunately, this was another case of poor science, in the sense defined above. True, some older methods of cutting and pasting viral genomes retain tell-tale signs of manipulation. But newer methods, called “no-see-um” or “seamless” approaches, leave no defining marks. Nor do other methods for manipulating viruses such as serial passage, the repeated transfer of viruses from one culture of cells to another. If a virus has been manipulated, whether with a seamless method or by serial passage, there is no way of knowing that this is the case. Andersen and his colleagues were assuring their readers of something they could not know.
The discussion part of their letter begins, “It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus.” But wait, didn’t the lead say the virus had clearly not been manipulated? The authors’ degree of certainty seemed to slip several notches when it came to laying out their reasoning."
It's the oldest trick in the book. The expert makes a claim that is technically true, "no markers that suggest artificial gain of function" but ignores the reality that gain of function experiments do not nesccarily leave markers.
This could be one animal infecting a single human being.
Sure. It could be aliens or purple unicorns. The desperation has set in. But please, provide a link to a reputable scientist making that claim. I'd love to see it.
Both hypotheses remain on the table.
But one is vastly more likely than the other. The circumstantial evidence for a leak is compelling. The evidence for a species jump has been reduced to "maybe it's a single animal" who never infected other animals silliness.
Fictional stories from a fictional character are irrelevant.
LOL. Logic is irrelevant. Look what you are reduced to claiming.
You think they would produce weak evidence that can be picked apart?
SO now evidence is only weak or conclusive? Is that how works. China, in your mind, won't provide any evidence unless it's impossible to contest? so I would assime they'd provide the easy to find concluve evidence
Not my concern if you do not see this.
See my repeat of the quote from Dr. Collins @8.2.16:
Spend a minute or two thinking.
Go ahead, presume that Dr. Collins is a liar. To do that you must have no knowledge of this man and his lengthy and distinguished career.
The possibility of a single animal infecting a single human being does not compare to aliens or purple unicorns. You are not even trying to be serious.
You have failed to support such a claim.
I have to explain everything to you? My point (and it was obvious) is that it makes sense for the Chinese government to withhold evidence that would not conclusively clear them. If they find evidence (if they have any) to be less-than-conclusive, I at least can see why they would not release it.
You cannot comprehend that. Not my problem.
Big words scary?
It wasn't meant to be scientifically literate Sean.
Call it whatever you want.
We have scientist with "credentials" on both sides of this, so don't try and impress us with "credentials!"
You have resurrected another strawman. This isn't about what one set of scientist believe vs another set of scientists. This is about a very valid theory of how the virus originated and why such very plausible idea that it may have begun in the Wuhan Lab was so discredited a year ago. The msm and Dr Fauci went beyond the pale to discredit it. The msn called it a "conspiracy theory" and Fauci quickly dismissed it even after Kristian G. Andersen warned him that it appeared man made. Doctors who worked at the lab and tried to speak out have long ago disappeared:
"Wuhan doctor Ai Fen, who expressed early concerns about the coronavirus to the media, has disappeared and is believed detained by Chinese authorities.
Fen, the head of emergency at Wuhan Central Hospital, was given a warning after she disseminated information about the coronavirus to several other doctors. She recounted the reprimand in an essay titled, “The one who supplied the whistle,” which was published in China’s People ( Renwu ) magazine. The article has since been removed."
The Journal came out with a story in late May, indicating that the first three people most likely infected (Nov 2019) worked at the lab.
And now thanks to a FOIA request we have these e-mails. So the possibilities of the origin of the virus have swung from the Chinese narrative of a "wet market" being most likely, right back to the now more likely idea that it escaped from that lab in Wuhan. It never got investigated when it should have. "We" (those with "credentials") took the word of China (which has destroyed all the evidence) and the WHO (which is nothing more than a proxy for China.)
What got us here involve two issues - one political - and the other personal for Dr Fauci. The media recoiled against the lab idea because it was Secretary of State Pompeo and President Trump who first gave rise to the idea and as we all know the first job of the media is to prove them wrong.
Then you had Fauci's personal motivations. He has always been a strong proponent of the kind or research going on at the Wuhan lab:
Fauci argued that the lab’s research of coronaviruses was essential in order to assess the threat of certain viruses to humans, “which might then damage the United States.” “You don’t want to go to Hoboken, N.J., or to Fairfax, Va., to be studying the bat-human interface that may lead to an outbreak, so you go to China,” Fauci said.
Now all we have to do is imagine that the story of US funding for research (with Fauci signing off on it) at the Wuhan lab becoming public knowledge when a tenacious virus emanating from Wuhan China was killing millions of people. How would the world think of your beloved Dr Fauci then? His motivation is therefore clear, and unfortunately for him, we are learning more with each passing day.
One thing is for certain - Biden will never declassify the files regarding the funding the Wuhan lab got from Fauci's NIH.
Dr. Collins is not simply 'another scientist', he is the director of the NIH. I trust you can do the math now.
Good grief, learn what a strawman argument is. Don't just toss out allegations without a clue as to what the term means.
I have presented the position of the director of the NIH. Not only is Dr. Collins in a position to know what the NIH did and does, he has a long history of competence and character. Presenting a relevant fact is not a 'strawman argument'.
Again, Vic, you dishonestly ignore what I write and just invent positions for me. I have told you directly and explicitly (as recently as @1.4.11) that the Wuhan lab origin seems to me to be a logical hypothesis. Direct, clear English. So why do you pretend that I reject that hypothesis? Or do you only see what you want to see (which would explain your incessant attacks on Fauci)?
I have already addressed this too. Fauci stated that the evidence shows the virus was natural rather than artificial. He therefore believes the virus jumped species naturally. He rendered his opinion based on the facts. He is going to have opinions and is supposed to present them. You get that, right?
Are you going to blame Fauci for this too? Some new conspiracy theory about Fauci?
Which is the key fact that has lead me to conclude that the Wuhan lab hypothesis is logical. And I have repeatedly stated this to you. You present this to me as if you are providing information that I do not possess. ( Intellectual dishonesty in lieu of an effective argument.)
In which you infer 'facts'. I refer you back to Dulay's rebuttals of your partisan bias driven 'reasoning'.
I have also told you that Fauci means nothing to me. What matters is the truth. Your 'beloved' language is yet more bullshit from you. I have not seeded a single article on Fauci; I have simply responded to your over-the-top and usually irrational attacks. You, on the other hand, have been on the attack of Fauci since early last year. A grand game of absurd levels of inference and confirmation bias.
You are way too deep into conspiracy theory; get a grip.
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You are way too deep into conspiracy theory;
That is the battle cry of the left. A perfect ending for you.
More bullshit Vic. I am not doing anything other than rebutting your claims and dealing with your tactics.
For example, look at this from post @1.4.11
This was a direct reply to you. Read what I highlighted in blue.
How does this translate when it gets into your mind? It should translate as: "TiG holds the Wuhan lab escape hypothesis to be logical based on the evidence." Who the hell knows what actually ends up once passed through a demonstrable highly partisan filter?
I know people make mistakes. But there is a point (especially after repetition) when benefit of the doubt no longer applies and one concludes intellectual dishonesty rather than innocent mistake.
Your partner just gave you another vote up.
Oh and BTFW, Rubio's Op/Ed merely further illustrates his cluelessness.
Dr. Fauci is a career civil servant and can only be fired for lack of performance or misconduct.
That's undoubtedly the reason that Trump didn't fire Dr. Fauci, since such allegations would be utterly unsupportable to an Administrative Judge or the Merits Systems Protection Board. It's well known that Trump isn't big on cogently explaining his decision making process.
Have you ever made such a comment regarding Trump? After all, if Fauci's words translate into "fraud, lies, deceit, flip-flops" to the point of one campaigning against him, the words of Trump should be absolutely infuriating.
It is fascinating to watch Rs attempt to demonize Fauci with a backdrop of Trump. Remember that Trump ended his presidency with a two-month long con-job where he falsely claimed the election was stolen from him and whipped his supporters into a frenzy with very bad consequences. That behavior by a PotUS was historical and utterly irresponsible. It was a dangerous campaign of lying and deceit which leveraged the most powerful political office on the planet.
But that is no problem, right? It is far more important to spin the words of Fauci.
Haven't you heard? Now we have the great Dr Collins who helped fund the Wuhan lab. None of the other scientists count. Only the ones who pushed the risky research count!
More spin and unsubstantiated allegations. Pathetic.
Once again you default to 'whatabout' Trump, who is not the topic
Can't understand why the left keeps defending this now discredited "expert"
You are apparently replying to me from @9.1.
You posted a cartoon @9 where you deem Fauci a liar, etc.
I find it ironic (actually grossly hypocritical) for someone who supports Trump to deem anyone a liar. Who on the planet could possibly compare to the pathological liar Trump? See, Greg, it would be different if you had a comment history where you attacked Trump for his lying. But you do not. That is hypocritical.
I think anyone interested in honesty and truth would counter the irrational, partisan attacks on Fauci. The question is why you, et. al. are so driven to spin everything into an attack on Fauci.
Perhaps many of the critics of Fauci are followers of Scott Atlas the know nothing when it comes to COVID.
Hard to say what motivates people to set an individual as a target and then engage in blatantly obvious confirmation bias to discredit their target. It is dishonest and often irrational, but partisan 'thinking' tends to manifest that way.
I wonder what life would be like if we didn't have people impose their speculations as if they were actualities, rather than admit that they were nothing more than personal theories. I now understand the adage about wasting everyone's time by not only imagining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but trying to convince others of what they dream up to be the answer.
My guess is a lot less dramatic and disingenuous.
And some certainly do seem to have very active imaginations.