Alabama governor says 'it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks' as pandemic worsens - 07/23/21
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coronavirus
Alabama governor says 'it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks' as pandemic worsens
"I can't make you take care of yourself," Republican Kay Ivey said of her state's residents who have yet to receive their shots.
Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey speaks during a news conference.
Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey issued an impassioned plea for residents of her state to get vaccinated against Covid-19, arguing it was "time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks" for the disease's continued spread.
"I want folks to get vaccinated. That's the cure. That prevents everything," Ivey, a Republican, told reporters in Birmingham, Ala., on Thursday.
"Why would we want to mess around with just temporary stuff?" she said. "We don't need to encourage people to just go halfway with curing this disease. Let's get it done. And we know what it takes to get it done."
Ivey went on to describe the shots as "safe" and "effective," saying: "The data proves that it works. [It] doesn't cost you anything. It saves lives."
But the remarks from the governor grew more pointed when she was pressed on what it would take for greater numbers of Alabamans to get their shots.
"I don't know. You tell me," Ivey said. "Folks [are] supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down."
Alabama remains the state with perhaps the lowest vaccination rate in the country, according to the CDC: Only 39.6 percent of its residents 12 and older have been fully vaccinated, compared to the 48.8 percent of Americans nationally who have gotten their shots.
On Thursday, Ivey told reporters she had "done all I know how to do" to boost her state's vaccination numbers.
"I can encourage you to do something," she said, "but I can't make you take care of yourself."
The White House took a different approach when asked about Ivey's remarks on Friday. "We're not here to place blame or threats; we're here to provide accurate information," press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters.
"We understand her frustration," Psaki added, noting the administration would continue to educate Americans about the risks of going unvaccinated.
Federal health officials in recent days have warned of a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" as the highly infectious Delta variant of the coronavirus surges across the country.
The Delta variant now represents more than 83 percent of the virus circulating in the United States, according to the CDC, and unvaccinated people account for 97 percent of coronavirus-related hospitalizations and deaths nationally.
Meanwhile, the White House has hardened its rhetoric toward social media companies such as Facebook and conservative media including Fox News, urging them to stop the proliferation of misinformation about the vaccine.
A senior spokesperson for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and a White House official tested positive for Covid-19 this week, and the Capitol's chief physician is considering reimposing a mask recommendation inside the complex.
Asked on Thursday about the possibility of a mask mandate for vaccinated Americans, President Joe Biden told reporters his administration would "follow the science." Government health experts, he said, were "looking at all possibilities."
Maeve Sheehey contributed to this report.
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This is isn’t just a “pandemic of the unvaccinated.” It’s now a pandemic perpetuated by the unvaccinated. We have tried to “persuade” for 9 months. It’s time to move to blame, shame, and coercion. You had your chance to do the right thing and you rejected it.
They just better make sure they have their papers in order when the brown shirts come to give them their government mandated inoculations.
Lest you get a cigarette in the eye as well ......
WTF?
Here's what she actually said:
Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey issued an impassioned plea for residents of her state to get vaccinated . . .
Do you understand the difference between pleading with someone to do something...and forcing them to do it?
GIYF! ("Google Is Your Friend"):
Here are the definitions of:
Pleading for someone to do something
Forcing someone to do something
(You're Welcome!
)
See, it’s just silly to go right to Nazis and torture. In the early 1900s, some places required the smallpox vaccine. They fined those who didn’t comply. How about we start with something like that? Or maybe you can’t attend school or go to work, or something along those lines. No one is looking to burn out anyone's eyes.
Meanwhile, more children got hooked up to ventilators today. Anybody care?
They were replying to the content of post #1 not what the governor said.
I'm thinking all the ignorant morons fighting masking in schools don't care.
Do you understand hyperbole? Here, let me help you:
I agree. Today it is silly. I suspect a lot of folks were thinking in much the same manner in the 30's in Germany/Europe and yet tens of millions still died directly at the hands of that regime.
I'm not against vaccines. I'm against being forced by government to take them. Free choice and liberty is precious in my book and we've already lost too much it under the guise of "safety" via things like the Patriot Act.
Self determination and liberty ..... i defendre id
Perfectly said! Liberty and personal freedom is something not to be easily or lightly discarded. Often when relinquished we never get it back.
Free choice is important to some folks when it comes to something like abortion but not when it comes to vaccines.
It's a pretty messed up duality.
I care. These children are our future
Nope. Not at all.
Grandma's doing her best, but wagging her finger isn't going to do it. I think she might have to offer some pie and ice cream
The thing is, that has been tried. A lot of places had prizes of various sorts in the spring. It hasn’t helped.
It has helped. Not as much as wished for but it did and does make a difference.
They offered lottery tickets here in Arkansas. I would have done it for nothing. However, I did get $100 bucks
That's a great idea. People respond so well to that.
As I pointed out already, good manners and encouragement have been tried. You don’t get to bitch now about stronger measures. You had your chance.
Indeed. Time to get into the "no more Mr. Nice Guy" zone.
I don't get to "bitch".... Ah. OK.
Tell me what else I don't get to do in your glorious "New America"?
Any other rights you intend to take away? Or would it just be shorter to list off any that you intend to allow people to keep?
What does that look like, exactly?
States and businesses taking a stand and requiring vaccinations and/or proof of vaccination for starters.
What rights are being taken away? A new America?
It is hyperbole like that that keeps the wavering from committing...
Let’s look at a bottom line here. How far down the coercion part of your #1 comment are you willing to the country and it’s leaders go against people here to get to your desired point?
It’s like Dr. fascist Fauci said. It’s time to check our liberty and freedom and do what we are told.
If Tacos gets his way, not only will people not be able to choose whether or not they get vaccinated, they'll also not be permitted to "bitch" about it.
Yes it's hyperbole. It's done to point out how eager some people are to decide what other people are allowed to do.
I agree. Threats, shaming, and attempted coercion do nothing to help the wavering commit to getting the vaccine. I got the Trump vaccine early on as quick as it was available for my age, work, and co morbidities because I believed in it and Trump. Had I not and wavered about it back then, in this environment there is no way in heck that I’d do it now.
Be more specific.
When you say the state "requires" vaccinations, how does that law read and how is it enforced?
Exactly. I got the vaccine early on and am still trying to persuade friends and family to do so. I told family about the mandates and prospective shaming and coercion being discussed by Biden and Newsom and they said no way in the hot place would they comply with such measures. They then turned on Alex Jones and they are way to the left of me politically. Around here it seems I’m lumped in with the anti vaxxers despite being vaccinated because I oppose further or new mandates regarding the China virus.
You are asking much the same as I did in 1.3.7 and I await the pro mandate response to our questions!
That's for the state to decide. I'm not a lawmaker. Perhaps health insurance companies can raise premiums for people not vaccinated, kind of the way its done with smokers.
Well...you're the one advocating it, so I hope you have some idea about what it would actually involve.
The Affordable Care Act currently prohibits that. Now...if we want to bring back the time when healthy people paid lower premiums, I'm all in favor. But you're going to really piss off all the fat people.
Nope - just the right to not spread infectious diseases. I don't even care if people continue to whine like little babies about it, just so long as they get their shots.
It's not new. That's another aspect of this that should be embarrassing for the "freedom to infect others" crowd. We went through this over 100 years ago with Smallpox. And guess what? The Supreme Court already ruled that you can be fined for not getting vaccinated. So it's the law, and it's actually "old America." Do you follow the law?
Americans used to give a shit about their fellow man. Not any more, I guess.
We both know the law. There are ways things can be circumvented.
Like the governor can implement certain government employees are vaccinated. The military can demand troops be vaccinated. Etc.
Why people are freaking out about all of this is just stupid to me.
This is true. Jacobson vs. Massachusetts, 1905 , gave States the right to mandate vaccinations under certain conditions where serious threats to public health exist, including apparently the right to enforce with fines.
Please provide where he said those words.
I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. You are 100% correct.
I already mentioned a couple.
Not quite. The ACA prevents coverage from being denied to smokers. The ACA includes a tobacco surcharge and private insurance companies can raise premiums for smokers.
As am I.
Lose weight, problem solved. Many insurance plans do offer discounts or benefits for healthful habits, such as smoking cessation or weight loss programs.
We have no idea what a new law might look like.
People are freaking out because we're currently in one of those times where we're very divided politically and not very smart. Each group is leery of what the brainless morons on the extreme wing of the opposing side may be able to get accomplished.
The way I see it, people are relying on the courts to do any bidding.
I don't think ignorance like this should be allowed to stand.
You need to stop saying this nonsense. It's not whatshisnames' vaccine. It all wouldn't have probably come to this point if he hadn't ignored, downplayed, and ranted and raved against masks and the incoming pandemic KNOWING HOW CONTAGIOUS AND DEADLY IT WAS.
NO ONE IS THREATENING ANYONE TO GET THE VACCINE.
When the Supreme Court Ruled a Vaccine Could Be Mandatory
Bettmann Archive/Getty Images
One of those holdouts, a Swedish-born pastor named Henning Jacobson, took his anti-vaccine crusade all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court . The nation's top justices issued a landmark 1905 ruling that legitimized the government’s authority to “reasonably” infringe upon personal freedoms during a public health crisis by issuing a fine to those who refused vaccination.
A Smallpox Panic and a $5 Fine
A certificate of "protection from smallpox" filled out by the United States Marine Hospital Service for John Donaldson, traveling aboard SS Chalmette to New Orleans, Havana, Cuba, July 18, 1902.
The New York Historical Society/Getty Images
In 1901, the city of Boston registered 1,596 confirmed cases of smallpox, a highly contagious, fever-inducing illness infamous for causing a severe rash on the face and arms that often left survivors scarred for life. In Boston alone, 270 people died from smallpox during the extended 1901 to 1903 outbreak. That’s why public health officials in Boston and neighboring Cambridge issued their compulsory vaccination orders, hoping to reach the 90 percent vaccination rate required for herd immunity.
Jacobson, who served as the pastor of a Swedish Lutheran church in Cambridge, had been vaccinated against smallpox in Sweden when he was 6 years old, an experience that he later said caused him “great and extreme suffering.” So when Dr. E. Edwin Spencer, chairman of the Cambridge Board of Health, knocked on the Jacobsons’ door on March 15, 1902, the pastor refused vaccination for himself and his son.
Don't worry, they still get to control women's reproductive health here in some states.
A person's right ends when it endangers the lives of others. A person has the right to buy a plane ticket, but they don't have the right to try to fly the plane.
Why do you think I will read your ignorant nonsense?
What happened to "My Body My Choice".
Where is the FDA approval?
I don’t know. Maybe ask someone who goes around saying that. I try to be a little more thoughtful.
In this case, it’s not about just one person’s body. It’s about everyone’s body. A quick Google of “infectious disease” yields this information:
That’s the whole thing. The virus is passed from person to person. As it passes, it mutates into something even more contagious. The current delta variant is substantially more contagious than what we had going around last summer. According to the CDC :
I hope that answers your question.
It’s been approved by the FDA, but on an emergency basis for what I hope is obvious reasons. Covid suddenly became the third leading cause of death in America last year.
It is assumed the FDA is currently conducting an expedited review for full approval. That is expected in a matter of weeks. Though it is hard to be certain of an exact time, it should happen for Pfizer by January at the latest, and Moderna in February.
But we needn’t wait. We can make a common sense decision based on a little more than that. For example, we already know that well over 600,000 Americans have died from Covid. But what about the vaccines? If we had some evidence that the vaccine was anywhere near that dangerous, I could see holding off.
I could also see waiting if only a few people had received the vaccine at this point. After all, success for a small sample size isn’t very compelling. If this were a drug for an obscure, rare condition that few people get, there might only be a few hundred people who had tried it right?
But no problem there. To date, almost 200 million distinct people in America have received at least one dose of a vaccine. For almost all of them, that means the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines. To date, neither vaccine has killed anyone. The number is literally zero. The CDC attributes three deaths to the Johnson & Johnson vaccine due to blood clots which formed in response to the shot. Three.
Even if the J&J vaccine was all we had, the odds are still pretty good because they have given it to 14 million people . But you don’t have to take it because there are two safer, more effective vaccines that exist.
No it hasn't, emergency basis is not approval. You have no idea what the long term effects will be on women of child bearing age or any one else. Why are a number of medical professional refusing to take the vaccine?
Do you even care that the sentence you quoted has a comma followed by the words
I mean how dishonest to you have to be to ignore that and then act like I need to be told the vaccine was approved on an emergency basis? You can say it’s insufficient, but don’t act like I was hiding the fact.
And you don’t have a reason to think it will be a problem. You also have hundreds of millions of people who have been vaccinated and don’t have a problem. As I said. Will you even address it? Or are you only here to push goalposts around?
What number? I bet the number who have received the shot is waayyyyy higher. How do you deal with that?
You tell me since it’s your claimed fact. Do you know?
Yup, they just started that in Tex-ass.
Here ya go, knock yourself out.
Doctors Against Vaccines – Hear From Those Who Have Done the Research (organiclifestylemagazine.com)
Why won’t some health care workers get vaccinated? - Harvard Health
Many health care workers are refusing to get a COVID-19 vaccine - CBS News
Huge Number of Hospital Workers Still Unvaccinated (webmd.com)
“100,000 Doctors & Medical Professionals Oppose COVID-19 Vaccine” – The New Abnormal (wordpress.com)
'Around 30%' of NY medical workers refusing COVID-19 vaccine: official (nypost.com)
Nurses fired for not getting COVID-19 vaccine explain their rationale (yahoo.com)
Alarming number of US health care workers are refusing COVID-19 vaccine (nypost.com)
More than 170 Houston hospital workers suspended over refusing vaccine | Fox News
I normally wouldn't say anything:
I don’t go hunting through random links. If you can attach a claim to specific evidence do it. My time is valuable to me, even if it isn’t valuable to you.
Yeah right..............guess you shut your eyes and didn't read the titles to all the seeds, ha ha!.
Blame, shame, and coercion only stiffens resolve and deepens the will to resist further. At least the governor isn’t being called a racist because most of the vaccine reluctant she’s talking about are by % of their population African American.
Nope. Sorry. That's bull. I'm not buying it. We asked nicely. We offered prizes. We didn't get cooperation, so you don't get to complain now.
We tried the carrot, and now it's time for the stick. This is how parenting works. This is how criminal justice works. It should be embarrassing for all the unvaccinated people that we are talking about having to go this route for a pandemic.
I asked you earlier in a prior thread on this seed how far do you want to go? To what extent are you willing to take measures of coercion to ultimately get your way on this issue. What is it going to look like on the streets and to the homes of the American people?
No one is buying your bullshit. Why do you persist?
Depends on how things go. You have to be willing to make adjustments based on changing conditions. That's why I didn't start with coercion in December and January. I assumed people wouldn't be ignoramuses about getting vaccinated. That assumption turned out to be wrong.
So we went to a campaign of encouragement. That helped, but it wasn't enough. So some places went to offering incentives like coupons or lottery tickets. That helped, but it hasn't been enough. Incredibly, morons actually were offended by that. Well, some people just want to be angry, I guess.
Now, some government offices and private businesses are refusing employment or admission without a vaccine. The babies of the world bitch and moan about their rights (btw you don't have a right to drag your unvaccinated ass into someone else's restaurant). But I'm sure it's motivating some people to get vaccinated.
So we have all sorts of incentives. Maybe now it's time to start fining people. We can start with $50 and work our way up. Maybe you'll have to be confined to your home for a while. You can cry like a little girl, if you want, or you can be a grown up and go get vaccinated for the good of everyone. People used to care about their neighbors. Now, they have to be forced to do the right thing. They should be ashamed.
Here at the University of Maryland where I work, if you don't have an exemption, and don't get vaccinated, you are up for termination. They give you plenty of time to do so. No excuse not to be vaccinated. NONE.
Have you asked the Biden administration why they are allowing unvaccinated into our country and shipping them all across the country.
I see you're among the ignorant who keep spreading that lie
Which part do you believe is a lie Tessy?
The truth is that since March we have had and continue to have a problem with the DHS not testing migrants at the border and leaving that to local resources while allowing and even transporting migrants who have been tested positive by those local resources (or at the destinations) to other locations in Texas and beyond. That is not to say that the Covid problem in the southern states should be blamed entirely on immigrants, but it is certainly a significant problem due to policies from the Federal level on down. Mayorkas visited the area again on Aug 12 to discuss the situation with local authorities and hopefully start working toward a Federal response to help solve this problem. Will be interesting to see if any changes are made, as certainly the situation has grown worse since his last visit in May.
From a Border Report article Aug 11/12, 2021:.
In another article Aug 11/12 from Border Report
This is a real issue Tessy, and getting worse. There are other reports from the border that migrants are indeed be bussed further inland initially to cities like Laredo by the DHS, and then from Laredo to other cities like Austin and Houston, as they become overwhelmed with the increasing number who are testing positive for Covid when checked by local resources.
Anyone who cares about the spread of Covid and the new variants in this country should be as concerned about this as they are about addressing the reasons for vaccination hesitancy among anti-vaxxers, Hispanics and African-Americans and any other demographics/areas where vaccination rates are lagging behind the average. We need to acknowledge, target and solve each of the reasons for the resurgence in Covid and consider them all equally important battles in the overall war against the pandemic, rather than pointing fingers and assigning blame or reducing this important issue to merely a red-state/blue-state partisan circus where nothing gets fixed.
The pandemic has been a political shit show from the start.
I believe in controlling illegal immigration, for sure. But I can look around with my eyes open and see pig-headed Americans who are refusing to do the right thing and they far outnumber the people coming over the border.
Perhaps, and agreed, but put the two together and it becomes a powder-keg. In July, the number of migrants crossing the border exceeded 212,000 (154,000 unique encounters) up 24,000 from June. About 36% of those, roughly 76,000 were processed or allowed to come into the country and challenge their status/deportation in immigration court, and are released to border cities and beyond. That is just for July!
Those are significant numbers.
That's why the cities and counties are begging the Feds to stem the flow of released migrants (as many as 16% of the migrants passing through the RGV found to be Covid-positive and climbing, higher in places where many are being bussed, like Laredo). Those counties/cities are also defying the Governor's attempts to stop mask and distancing mandates and his orders not to send migrants to other cities. They simply have no other choice.
Is it significant? Think about it.
Even without disputing the numbers, and assuming they are all unvaccinated, - both totally just for the sake of argument - they still count for next to nothing because over 160 million Americans remain unvaccinated.
So a mere 76 thousand is equivalent to 4 one-hundredths of 1% of unvaccinated people in this country. You really think those people are the problem? “Drop in the bucket” doesn’t begin to encapsulate their petty significance.
We need Americans to stop trying to deflect responsibility away from themselves.
That is 76,000 per month, according to USBP numbers. 20,000 per week according to officials just in the RGV. Certainly worth addressing by at least having these folks tested, quarantined, and perhaps vaccinated by the DHS as a matter of policy before being released into an area where the locals themselves aren't doing what they can to stop the spread either.
Agreed, hope you aren't suggesting that I'm doing that. I fully agree that we need to educate folks better about the vaccines, make sure they are readily available to everyone, and use common sense approaches to see that they get vaccinated, and also be rational about the simple acts of wearing a mask and staying distanced from other people. I absolutely agree with that. But if one agrees with that and yet ignores, or minimizes, the thousands pouring through the border, untested by the DHS and many of them being moved around to other cities and testing positive in higher and higher percentages along the way, then I don't understand the disconnect. Both problems need to be solved because they BOTH add up to disaster.
Is it? Because you said:
But ok, fine. Again, just for the sake of argument, let’s assume it’s every month. You said the July number was an increase, and I’ll bet June was an increase on May. But we don’t have to do that. Let’s assume every month 76,000 unvaccinated people poor into the country. Just so you understand, our final number will definitely be higher than reality. Forgive me if seem snarky while I do math . . .
How many months do you want to count? How far back do you want to go? Biden has only been president for seven months. You want to do 7? If it’s 7 months, we’re talking 28/100 of 1% instead of 4/100 of 1% or 0.28%. Does that seem significant to you? It sure doesn’t to me. Just for reference, your chances of dying from Covid if you’re unvaccinated is ten times that.
Should we go back to when vaccines became available? That was 9 months ago. That raises the number to 36/100 of 1%.
How about the whole history of the pandemic? 17 months would get you all the way up to 68/100 of 1%. And remember, this is just the unvaccinated people, not even the whole population. And it assumes a maximum number of illegal aliens each month, way beyond what we know to be true.
They know. Unfortunately, a few insane assholes with microphones are lying to them about the vaccines, so that’s a problem. But I mean Trump himself got vaccinated. He took credit for getting the things developed. Politically, there’s no sense in a single Trump supporter not being vaccinated.
They are. They’re everywhere and . . . AND they’re free.
They’re not connected. At all.
As much I don’t like illegal immigration, I’m not going to blame Covid or low rates of vaccination on that tiny handful of people. Americans in every state are not being held back from getting vaccinated by illegal aliens, so the two problems are not connected. Illegal immigration is a government problem. At this point, getting vaccinated is a personal problem that pretty much any person can solve on their own.
A porous border is a problem, but it’s not the reason we have Covid, and it’s not the reason Americans aren’t vaccinated.
"Which part do you believe is a lie Tessy?"
Every word now Buzz off freewill.
Nope, not this time Tessy. You have made such claims (or charges of lies with no support or counter argument) before and when presented with the facts, or asked to provide your own facts, you respond with trite dismissive responses and pretend like I am the one trolling you. Yet you are the one going around claiming people are lying without being willing to look at the evidence. THAT is trolling my friend. I have every right to be here and present the facts when you or anyone else summarily dismiss them as lies. I try to get you to respond to honest questions and engage in rational discussion and this is the type of response you offer most of the time.
Read the reports. The Federal Government is allowing untested (by the DHS) and mostly unvaccinated migrants to come across the border and move inland and that is becoming a serious health issue in the border towns and other cities where infected migrants are being bussed. If you doubt the source then feel free to check out BorderReport's status on Media Bias Fact Check . These reports are coming from city and county leaders in the effected areas, many of whom are Democrats if that makes any difference to you.
Having said that I agree with Tacos. A much bigger part of the problem are the locals and others around the country who refuse to get vaccinated or wear the masks and practice proper distancing. But certainly the movement of migrants increasingly testing positive for Covid into these areas is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Both problems need to be addressed, and neither should be ignored nor minimized.
Very much agreed. Although these migrants being released are not yet "illegal", most are awaiting processing for asylum or for proper immigration status and some without a proper reporting or court date .
Also agreed. Obviously the migration issue isn't the reason why Americans aren't vaccinated, or why Covid is spreading in other parts of the country. But in the areas along the southern border and moving a bit further inland to places like Laredo, Austin, and Houston, this situation is like throwing gasoline on a fire that is already burning. How could it not be?
What facts? [removed]
Certain people here think it is just fine and dandy to infect their friends and family simply because they were born here.
Certain people just don't care too.
Yikes! Like who?
Oh I think they care, they have simply been misled as to what is most important to care about.
At this point science and common sense indicates that we should care about getting vaccinated, remaining quarantined if testing positive, and being reasonable about wearing masks and keeping our distance until this virus is no longer a threat. People need to understand that this is what will protect their families best. Then they will care about the right things.
I'm not so sure sometimes.
Seems like priorities are all screwed up.
That is most logical. Unfortunately, it seems nowadays that many people either lack common sense and/or are hostile towards science.
You give them too much credit. There are those who protest having kids wear masks at school or getting themselves vaccinated. And they probably think they're making some bold statement, doing it in the name of "freedom" or "civil rights," or something like that.
This is the third time this has been posted. Once by me. Once by CB. Now tacos.
I guess the third time is the charm?
I apologize. I haven’t seen this seed elsewhere.
It was a couple of weeks ago.
No need for apologies. This happens often and apparently, people still have plenty to say.
No need to apologize tacos. I guess I was just being petty.
Needs to keep being brought up, you did good.
It is all good my friend. Some things are worth repeating.
This women is obviously a ..Socialist!
/sarc
This woman or these women…
Correct!
I suggest blaming the ruling class which demanded the reopening of schools and businesses. I suggest prosecuting them together.
Wait! That should be raised to the level of a demand.
Except none of these Republican governors have the courage to do what's right or what is best in the interest of protecting all their constituents by instituting mask mandates and requiring all State employees to be vaccinated setting the example. She can try to shame them or act on what she has to know is true.
Unless these governors are willing to do everything needed to protect all children who can get this deadly virus by demanding adults act responsibly with mandates; then they will continue to over burden the healthcare system to the breaking point.
If a hospital is full up how are they going to take heart attack patients or people who are injured in accidents? Too many of these governors failed their state by caving to right wing talking points rather than act on reality.
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Posted twice by mistake. Perrie - please remove.
Some ignorant shithead called his widow white trash
[deleted]
[deleted]
Someone here?
I don't think they've reared their ugly head on this seed but I can not name names you know. Please PM and I will tell you if you like
I have an easy solution.
Don't mandate it.
But don't allow the IRS to issue tax refunds to any one not recorded as vaccinated at least twice.
Easy Peasy.
Major rush to compliance!
You could probably make that work with a minor modification.
The SCOTUS has ruled that individual healthcare is a matter of interstate commerce, and as such is subject to the nearly limitless power of taxation afforded to Congress.
So you could almost surely get away with a tax break for vaccinated people (or a tax on unvaccinated people, depending on how you look at it).
You could probably not get away with not issuing any refund whatsoever.
Unfortunately, any incentive offered so far has been met with whining about unfair treatment, vaccinated people being marginalized, or similar nonsense. You can expect the same insanity with a tax break. Otherwise, I’d say it was a good idea.
I said it would be achievable, not that it's a good idea.
It's a stupid idea, and it's political suicide. It will go exactly as well as the ACA did in 2010....Republican control of Congress for a decade and 30 million people still not covered/vaccinated.
I wasn’t responding to you, so what you said is not important to me.
I can see where paying for coverage could cause a financial hardship for some, but the vaccinations are free so the unvaccinated have no excuse.
People who don't get flu shots have no excuse, and they are currently much more dangerous to the vaccinated population than people without the Covid vaccine.
The larger point I guess is that we have a current crop of Democrats who forget that you can't just make people do what you want in a free society. And if you get too aggressive with laws attempting to force them, shit blows up in your face.
Every vaccine has met resistance along the way. That's true of everything from smallpox to polio to TB.
To be fair, we have a current crop of Republicans who can't seem to get their minds around the fact that a mask mandate is not some sort of infringement on their Constitutional rights. Every time I hear somebody say "they can't make me wear a mask", I simply reply "they make you wear pants, don't they?" There is a longstanding precedent for "making you wear" shit, but people lose sight of the larger picture when their emotions take over.
No, they do not. Just as people who don't get the covid vaccine do not have any excuse.
And some people need to realize that freedom carries certain responsibilities and is not absolute. Those who take freedom for granted do not deserve it.
And look at how well those vaccines worked. People seem to forget how terrible smallpox, polio, ect., really was, just as Covid is now. Vaccines have a good track record of dealing with these diseases. But people forget their history and there seems to be particular hostility directed towards vaccines these days.
I'd say that applies to anyone with that mindset.
No shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service, right?
Now that sums it up nicely.
Flu shots are charged for if you don't have coverage where the covid ones are free.