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Are There Lost Alien Civilizations in Our Past?

  

Category:  Anthropology & Archeology

By:  hal-a-lujah  •  2 years ago  •  46 comments

Are There Lost Alien Civilizations in Our Past?

I’ve always wondered about this.



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Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1  author  Hal A. Lujah    2 years ago

I came across this video this morning and found it interesting.  Time is much more expansive than we commonly think of it as.  With enough time virtually everything turns unrecognizable - and we know that the earth has been around for a very, very long time.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2  JohnRussell    2 years ago

About 50 years ago "Chariots Of The Gods" by Van Daniken came out making the argument that earth had been visited in ancient times by aliens. Every single thing about it was subsequently debunked. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 years ago

This video isn’t about visitation, it’s about the question of inhabitation during a time period too far back for evidence to have survived.  It’s worth the 11 1/2 minutes.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago

ok

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago
This video isn’t about visitation, it’s about the question of inhabitation during a time period too far back for evidence to have survived.

If you're talking alien to homo sapiens, then yes, of course there have been.  The question is the degree of intelligence. 

Technically even dinosaurs had their own version of a civilization.  They were not constantly killing each other as Hollywood likes to show, many were in symbiotic relationships with others.  But does that qualify as a "civilization"?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.3  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.2    2 years ago

The subject goes way back before anything human-esque.  It is entirely possible for a civilization even more advanced than ours to have existed, in a past so distant that nothing about it could be observed now simply because it has all disintegrated into its surroundings.  Ancient pyramids will some day look no different than the soil around them.  Everything will decay 100% with enough time.

To the average non-religious person specifically, this is just a curiosity with no discernible impact.  To the current world population at large this would have an enormous negative impact - thanks to religion.  Evidence of an entirely decayed and lost civilization of beings that don’t even resemble humans would challenge all the historical god narratives throughout the world that have so much of humanity under their spell.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.1.4  pat wilson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.3    2 years ago

Every now and then I like to watch Ancient Aliens on The History Channel.

The supposition warrants consideration.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.4    2 years ago

I like to watch that, too. Sometimes I think they may be on to something but I always have a healthy dose of skepticism close by

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.6  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.4    2 years ago

I’ve never watched it.  It always seemed like the kind of show that hinges on conspiracy rather than pure speculation.  Maybe I’ll give it a try.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.1.7  pat wilson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    2 years ago

I've tuned in a few times on weekends when there's nothing much on tv. There are some interesting theories there.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Ender  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    2 years ago

You too could be an ancient astronaut theorist.

Wild hair and an oversized necklace just makes the look.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.9  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.3    2 years ago
The subject goes way back before anything human-esque.  It is entirely possible for a civilization even more advanced than ours to have existed, in a past so distant that nothing about it could be observed now simply because it has all disintegrated into its surroundings.

Ahhhh, I see what you are trying to state.  Advanced non-human civilizations.  Unless it was limited to below the ice of Antarctica, there would be some sign of it, if it were so advanced.  Even at our current level of technology, there would still be remnants of our technology in 10,000 years or more.

So while I will not say a definitive, no, to the possibility, the chance is so small that it is statistically zero.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.10  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.9    2 years ago

Even at our current level of technology, there would still be remnants of our technology in 10,000 years or more.

What about 1,000,000 years ago?  The Cambrian explosion is thought to have occurred over 540,000,000 years ago.  That’s a lot of time to fit in possibly several civilizations from scratch to 100% decay.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.11  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.10    2 years ago
What about 1,000,000 years ago?

There are things we have now, that would be findable to archeologists in 1,000,000 years.  We have discovered fossils from 3.5 BILLION  years ago.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.12  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.11    2 years ago

We have discovered fossils from 3.5 BILLION  years ago.

Yes, but they represent an infinitely small portion of what existed at that time, because they happened to be deposited in an extremely rare set of environmental conditions.  The volume of things that did not leave a trace is beyond measure.  One million years after an extinction event, it’s likely that the entirety of New York City wouldn’t leave a single trace of existence.  Again, I’m not saying that the premise has to be true, or assigning any level of probability to it, I’m just saying that we cannot presume to know for certain what did not happen on this planet over periods of hundreds of millions of years.  The video does a much better job of presenting that.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.13  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.12    2 years ago
Yes, but they represent an infinitely small portion of what existed at that time, because they happened to be deposited in an extremely rare set of environmental conditions.

Like I said, it is not impossible.  But it is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very unlikely.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.14  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.13    2 years ago

That precise number of “very”s implies a particular level of certainty.  I think “very unlikely” comes closer to reality based on what we actually know about what is currently unknowable.  Unreachable trace evidence buried a mile beneath the earth’s surface might surprise us one day.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.15  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.14    2 years ago
That precise number of “very”s implies a particular level of certainty.

I did count them before posting, thank you for noticing.

I think “very unlikely” comes closer to reality based on what we actually know about what is currently unknowable.

And I will, respectfully disagree.  That is like saying that it is "very unlikely" the Earth is hollow.

Unreachable trace evidence buried a mile beneath the earth’s surface might surprise us one day.

Again, very (x 26) unlikely.  Previous civilizations I can accept, but when you start talking "advanced" civilizations, like Atlantis(?), I have to say no. 

It is a wonderful thought, and up there with the thought of us being greeted by aliens once we break the FTL barrier, but in all reality it is much more than likely a fantasy.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.16  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.15    2 years ago

This conversation reminds me of ones I’ve had with theists when I bring up the vastness of space versus the concept of a single god creating all of it just for the purpose of our humanity.  To me it is inconceivable how one can think there can only be one god and a single creation, when it would be equally practical for numerous gods and creations to be the case considering the vastness of space between the uncountable galaxies throughout the universe.  I don’t believe in god or gods period, but it seems strange to me that those who believe in one creation/god will immediately discount the prospect of multiple creations/gods separated by enormous distances in space, as if they already know what they don’t know.  Science advances based on the understanding that we truly don’t know what we don’t know.  Compared to the vastness of time and space, humanity is about as consequential as a grain of sand on a beach.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.17  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.16    2 years ago
This conversation reminds me of ones I’ve had with theists when I bring up the vastness of space versus the concept of a single god creating all of it just for the purpose of our humanity.

This reminds me of theists claiming there is a god without any evidence whatsoever to support that claim.  Is it impossible?  No of course not, but there should have been evidence before now of that existence.

There is nothing wrong with the belief, it just should not be presented as a fact.

To me it is inconceivable how one can think there can only be one god and a single creation, when it would be equally practical for numerous gods and creations to be the case considering the vastness of space between the uncountable galaxies throughout the universe.

Christians, amazingly, are some of the most opposed to the other gods theory.  Despite their bible telling them that there are others....1st Commandment....

Compared to the vastness of time and space, humanity is about as consequential as a grain of sand on a beach.

229878610-doctor-who-life-quotes-you-Favim_com-922733.jpg

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.18  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.17    2 years ago

This reminds me of theists claiming there is a god without any evidence whatsoever to support that claim.  Is it impossible?  No of course not, but there should have been evidence before now of that existence.

There is nothing wrong with the belief, it just should not be presented as a fact.

How does this conversation remind you a situation where something is being presented as fact?  Who is saying anything about facts in relation to lost civilizations?  Certainly not me.  Using the adverb “very” 26 times to precede a level of likeliness is more representative of insinuating factuality than just admitting that we don’t know what we don’t know.

Just consider that in addition to how minute any evidence of an unknown civilization could be over a time period of millions of year, the species would be a function of the environment that existed then.  What if a long extinct intelligent civilization wasn’t even carbon based?  Or absorbed nutrients from the atmosphere?  We wouldn’t even know what we would be looking for.  I’m not arguing for it, I’m just expanding the realm of possibilities one would need to consider before assigning a level of likeliness that we would have found evidence by now.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.19  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.18    2 years ago
How does this conversation remind you a situation where something is being presented as fact?

You are changing this discussion from a conversation to an argument.

I have merely pointed out that there is ZERO evidence to support your conjecture of an ancient "advanced" civilization.  Without any such evidence it falls in line with the hollow Earth theory, Edgar Rice Burroughs notwithstanding.

And as far as I am concerned, you can believe anything you want, I am out of this discussion before it turns bad.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.20  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ozzwald @2.1.19    2 years ago

I thought we were having a conversation, not an argument.  If you’d rather go back to the political and ideological head bashing that happens all day long in every other seed on NT, fine.  I was hoping for some open, friendly discussion on some ground that is not governed by staunch ideology.  Obviously nobody is interested.  Angry is the new normal.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
2.1.21  Ozzwald  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.20    2 years ago
I thought we were having a conversation, not an argument.

We were, and I enjoyed it.  However the tone is changing, and so I am exiting it.

If you’d rather go back to the political and ideological head bashing that happens all day long in every other seed on NT, fine.

It's not a one or the other case.

I was hoping for some open, friendly discussion on some ground that is not governed by staunch ideology.

And you succeeded, and I enjoyed the time.  But there is nothing left to say, your belief is that "it is possible", my belief is that "it is extremely unlikely", those are both our beliefs and neither is based on evidence (to discuss) just beliefs.  I have no evidence to prove you wrong, and you have no evidence to prove me wrong, so rather than take this any further, since we have both stated our own beliefs, I am calling it quits.

It was enjoyable to get away from the political discourse and I thank you for that. 

I have never been opposed to, or ridiculed  anyone, because of their beliefs unless those beliefs were based on fallacious or malicious information, which yours are not.  So this discussion really has nowhere to go.  If you do another one like this I would enjoy discussing that with you as well, so I will keep my eye out.

Until then, have a good day and see you next time....

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.1.22  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago

I watched the entire video and found it very interesting and entirely plausible. Having spent 20 years in the Navy, I have travelled a lot of the world and been to places where I believe it is entirely possible that some species may still exist today including the continent of Antarctica, which has the deepest canyons on Earth that are not under water. There is also the Transantarctic Mountain Range that has some of the highest peaks on Earth with only a minute amount showing above the ice and snow. I have flown over those mountains on a number of occasions ant it was awe inspiring every time. One also cannot rule out the possibility of a possible civilization in the ocean depths as well. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
2.1.23  bbl-1  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.6    2 years ago

Pure speculation?  Not really.  There are 'edifices' all over the world that defy a normal/accepted explanation.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.24  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  bbl-1 @2.1.23    2 years ago

I would say that what the video is opining about is pure speculation, in that it is not considering any known archeological phenomena.  Quite the opposite - it’s simply referring to timeframes so distant that it would be impossible to have left artifacts.  If you drew a graph plotting time from the Cambrian explosion to now versus human population, you’d need an almost microscopically thin pencil to graph the whole of human existence.  There would be plenty of opportunities for other civilizations to have been birthed, gone extinct, and decayed beyond recognition today.  It can be hard to wrap your head around such vast units if time.  The same can be said for vast units of distance in space.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.2  cjcold  replied to  JohnRussell @2    2 years ago
Every single thing about it was subsequently debunked

It cost us a pretty penny to discredit him. We also had the X-files and Twilight Zone cancelled.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2.2.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  cjcold @2.2    2 years ago

True, but his protege Giorgio Tsoukalos still carries on with the ancient alien astronaut theories put forth by Von Daniken.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3  Trout Giggles    2 years ago

Ever watch the movie "Prometheus"? Aliens planted us here but then decided we were a failed experiment so they created the Alien to destroy us

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
3.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Trout Giggles @3    2 years ago

Doesn’t sound familiar.  Sounds a little counterproductive to go and destroy a civilization on an isolated planet because it didn’t turn out like they wanted.  Did they plan on reseeding it with a newer version or something?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @3.1    2 years ago

Did any of the Alien movies make any sense after the second one?

Sounds a little counterproductive to go and destroy a civilization on an isolated planet because it didn’t turn out like they wanted.

Tell that to those who believe in the Great Flood. Apparently their God makes no sense, either.

I don't remember if they planned to reseed Earth with something else unless it was with the Xenomorph

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4  Kavika     2 years ago

Everyone in the know knows that the Star People have not only visited on many occasions but actually live in a parallel universe. Geez, people.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
4.1  Hallux  replied to  Kavika @4    2 years ago

Uh Huh, but you are an indigenous America and they all come from an alternate something or other.

BTW ... got the history book yesterday and scanned thru a number of chapters, looks like it's going to be quite the eye opener and preconception trasher.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Hallux @4.1    2 years ago

Let me know what you think of the book.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.2  devangelical  replied to  Kavika @4    2 years ago

that's the response I was waiting for.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5  Greg Jones    2 years ago

There would some physical evidence of their existence. Fossilized stromatolites have been around for about 3.5 billion years...not all the geological traces would disappear. And where would the aliens come from?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Greg Jones @5    2 years ago

And where would the aliens come from?

Wherever we came from.  That’s kind of the point.  Given enough passage of time, no synthetic material would be discernible from its natural surroundings.  Mountains degrade, tectonic plates shift, waterbodies meander, glaciers wander - maybe whatever extremely rare preserved evidence is just a microscopic needle in a mountain of hay.  I’m not saying I believe it, but there’s no denying that we don’t know what we don’t know, and it’s not impossible given what we know about how long earth has been around.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6  Ender    2 years ago

If we advanced enough and have the technology to actually seed another planet, I guess we would be the aliens....

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Ender @6    2 years ago

Or nature just takes its course and abiogenesis creates civilization 1.0, then 2.0, then 3.0, etc.  That’s the thing about time - when enough of it accumulates it’s effects are difficult to fathom.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Ender  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.1    2 years ago

Honestly, as old as the universe is, I think it would be kind if arrogant to think we have been the only intelligent life.

It also makes me wonder, as the universe expands at a more and more rapid rate, that would mean billions of years ago the systems and stars and galaxies would have been a lot close together making travel between them easier.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7  afrayedknot    2 years ago

We are insignificant on the galactic landscape. 

Should we be ever examined by an alien society, they would be dumbfounded by the eagerness to enslave, subjugate, and kill our own kind for profit. Pretty low an any evolutionary scale. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  afrayedknot @7    2 years ago

I feel like no society can advance without going through some ugly stages.  Prior to industrialization it took slave labor to build nations. Production of the first solar panels and windmills required power derived from fossil fuel.  Hopefully humanity is just somewhere along the path to enlightened ethics and morality … but you gotta kill a few Dodos to get there.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
7.1.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1    2 years ago

“Hopefully humanity is just somewhere along the path to enlightened ethics…”

Hear, Hear…

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
7.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1    2 years ago
"Hopefully humanity is just somewhere along the path to enlightened ethics and morality..."

Wishful thinking, Hal, when in fact this is what is happening in the "evolution" of humanity...but just as you said, "...you gotta kill a few Dodos to get there."

R-C.29855b21db7b54e03012d3e98223ad0f?rik=QCWVbW0E0YLXcg&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.techandfacts.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2014%2f10%2fAnti-Evolution-1024x382.jpg&ehk=Vgm9tj3nFYD0S%2fpU4NxQASAKq1Wtw3tGk8jCPN9rEXs%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

....on our way to The Planet of the Apes.

reverse_evolution.jpg

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
7.1.3  author  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1.2    2 years ago

384

 
 

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