Reparations aren’t about justice. They’re an act of revenge
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Ten years ago, the idea of “reparations” sat on the political fringes in America. The question of whether or not compensation should once have been paid to former slaves had died out. Not least because by the start of the 21 st century, no one in America had actually suffered from slavery. The country was a century and a half away from the bloody civil war it had fought over the issue.
But there’s a tendency in our own age which does not allow wounds to mend or heal. Indeed, there is a movement that locates long-healed wounds in order to rip them open again. And then complain about the hurt caused to themselves.
In 2014, the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote an essay in The Atlantic making “ The Case for Reparations .” In recent times, few articles have had more impact. The issue of reparations began to be picked up by the radical left and then made its way to the political center. By the time of the Democratic primaries in 2020 all of the party’s candidates were willing to talk about the issue. Some, including Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren, expressed support for some form of reparations. Such candidates pointed to the disparity between average household wealth in white families and black families in America.
Once the Democrats were in power, one of the first things they did in Congress was apply pressure on President Biden to set up a commission to study reparations for black Americans both for slavery and for “systemic racism” — a guilty verdict that was already in.
It certainly is true that there are disparities of wealth between black and white Americans. But there are disparities between black and white Americans and Asian-Americans as well. In America in the 2020s Asian-Americans significantly outperform every other racial group in their earnings. They earn more on average than white Americans, who in turn earn more than Hispanic-Americans, who in turn earn more than black Americans.
All talk of reparations must confront this statistic. If the cause of black economic underperformance in America in the 2020s is systemic racism, why do other groups outperform them? Why do groups who have arrived more recently outperform them? And why is the “systemic racism” of America not holding down Asian-Americans if it is so all-pervasive?
In recent years, the claim of systemic racism has become an all-encompassing explanation for everything the radical left wants done. This movement looks at complex problems and presents a simple answer: racism because of white supremacy.
As I researched these problems for my latest book , I did wonder whether anyone claiming to speak about reparations had done any real thinking on it.
For instance, today in America, we are no longer talking about a group of people who did a wrong paying compensation to people to whom a wrong was done. We are talking of a group of people who look like a group of people who did a wrong in the past making a vast wealth transfer to another group of people who look like a group of people to whom a wrong was done (black Americans).
And it is not just the unjustness of punishing people for wrongs done long before their time, but the madness that comes from even thinking that such a task is performable.
The transatlantic slave trade, like the far larger Arab slave trade of the same period, was only made possible because black Africans kidnapped and sold their brothers and sisters into slavery. We know this from the historical record and from the memoirs of those to whom this was done, like the remarkable 18 th century slave Olaudah Equiano . Some people at the time, including Voltaire, noted that the only thing worse than the treatment of some Africans by some Europeans was the behavior of some Africans to their fellow Africans.
So how do we find out who is responsible for all of this? How are we to find out who among the black community in America is descended from American slaves and who is descended from African slavers? What are we to do about people who have some of each inheritance in their family? Anyone who thinks that voter ID is intrusive will be amazed at how much intrusion would be required to perform this act of mass DNA gathering.
Some hope to arrive at equality by giving “non-Western” people a freer pass and carrying out acts of vengeance on “Western” people. Arlington County’s attorney Parisa Dehghani-Taft recently said that she plans to find ways to reduce the incarceration of black people by explicitly taking race into account in prosecutorial decision making. The former chief prosecutor has condemned this, saying that it “makes a mockery of blind justice and corrodes confidence in the criminal justice system.” Which indeed it does.
Others also see this as a route to justice. In 2020, San Francisco passed the CAREN Act , which made it a hate crime to make a “racially motivated” 911 call against a black person “without reasonable suspicion of a crime.” The name comes from the derogatory term “Karen,” which in recent years has come to mean a white woman with entitled energy. The act makes it a potential crime to call the cops on a person who is black and makes white people doing so have to wonder whether it will be they who the police take in for questioning. It is also noteworthy, in passing, that in the current era, racial slurs are actually cool and can be written into law so long as the people they demean are white women.
Both of these actions, in Arlington and San Francisco, are explicit departures from the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of “equal protection of the laws.” Both take the form of explicitly unequal treatment on the basis of race. Taking this further would certainly be one form of revenge, if not reparation. But a grander, more common form of revenge is what is now taking place and sweeping across the culture.
I come back to Coates’ essay that kicked off this debate a decade ago. In his view, there was a precedent for American reparations in the money paid to Israel after the Holocaust by Germany. But this was a payment made immediately after a genocide, not two centuries after a barbaric trade.
The people who push for reparations in America today claim to be doing so in the name of racial harmony. In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything more likely to put a bomb under race relations in this country. It has become just another tool of vengeance in the fevered anti-Western, anti-American spirit of our age.
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Who is online
525 visitors
"The people who push for reparations in America today claim to be doing so in the name of racial harmony. In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything more likely to put a bomb under race relations in this country. It has become just another tool of vengeance in the fevered anti-Western, anti-American spirit of our age."
They have no idea how angry this would make the group they want to take from
Isn't that group already angry?
they will be a lot more angry and many more will join then
I'll take that as a yes...
Wasn't anger present during all those centuries of poor choices made that set-back "Africans" here in the United States in the first place? So I ask, when are some whites NOT angry with today's blacks?
yes, that would be a yes
"Isn't that group already angry?"
It's your side that's perennially angry and unhappy
I don't give blacks much thought, in spite of all the disinformation from the left.
Bazinga!
I think they are just upset that they have to go directly to their cars and drive out of the area after a Yankees game. It's no way to live.
Nobody drives to Yankee Field. They take the subway or an Uber. Have you ever been there?
I thought that it was called Yankee Stadium. I took an Uber but I understand that drivers use SpotHero for parking spots.
Yeah, there you go again, Greg!
Maybe since the economy is going so great according to JBB, the FBI and CIA can continue their investigation into those 50 plus clandestine Russian agents that apparently existed only in his mind starting in 2014,
The don't have to take the cost of reparation's from any group. We just need to borrow more like for most new entitlements.
"Entitlements" are a curious thing, aren't they? What are international countries "entitled" to and are freely supplied (even tens and hundreds of billions right now in 'handouts') and how often do they fill U.S. offers with 'returns'? But then, you can't have an underclass, or several underclasses, if you don't keep people 'in line' and down-oh, and fighting over the scraps that fall off the table!
I don't think any countries have US entitlements from the way I'm using the term. I'm a federal worker and use some terms from a budgetary perspective. In that sense, entitlements are federal expenditures that are legally mandatory and not subject to political debate like 'discretionary' spending is. Social Security and Medicare are examples of entitlements while education and foreign aid are examples of discretionary programs. About two thirds of federal spending is for entitlements, entitlement programs continue to grow faster than GDP and continue to consume a larger portion of the federal budget.
Unless all people receive the same income, wont you always have an "underclass"?
We could just print more money. Make that can we are kicking down the road even bigger. Future generations will love us for it ......
Yeah, bullshit. Calling it differently, does not change the effect. The fact is, there are some conservatives who call federal workers "entitled" and want shut down those big old gov'mint "discretionary funds" too. Certainly, federal workers should work for scale wages and not be a protected class.
Future generations might just thank 'us' for ending the repeating cycles of rhetorical lip service about why the EXCEPTIONAL country in the world does not have the intellectual prowess to end its long-standing 'disability' of repressions and not connecting with its own citizens in spirit and in truth!
"Re-upping" bogus lies, endless recriminations, and attempting to hide the legacy of repeat wrongs done to Africans, slaves, and people of color, as these "roots,"are exposed won't stop the deep-seated grumblings and rumblings stuck in the bowels of our country.
Yeah I know.
Makes one wonder why so many folks of colors are risking life and limb to get here. Those folks must all be really dumb. Either dumb or complete masochists.
Your understanding of fundamental economics appears to be sophomoric at best. I suggest a basic Macro and Micro Economic class before you try to wade into big boy economics discussions
Pay attention nawh ......
They are entrepreneurial, more so than many US natives and know a better deal when they see one.
Absolutely, the Fed and the Treasury can help reduce our 'real debt' by inflation so what we pay back isn't worth as much as when we borrowed/printed it.
[deleted]
No bullshit. An entitlement refers to a guarantee of access to benefits based on legislation.
Exactly, changing the term without changing the legislation doesn't change the effect.
Of course and most do. I work under the General Schedule (GS) Pay Scale.
What does that have to do with slavery reparations?
Nothing.
Are you saying blacks as a class are victims of some sort
What does that have to do with slavery reparations?
It was a reply to 2.2.4. Reading the thread is helpful.
Makes CONSERVATIVES wonder, I am sure. Because I have news for you, immigrants ain't struggling to enter our country just to lock arms with a conservative worldview! Don't get it twisted! We are a great country, and that is due to all of us—not credit to any one group. Conservatives, yes this is about you—it is NOT all about you, nevertheless!
Conservatives are hard at work trying to TAKEOVER and DECLARE full control over a great nation. Y'all shall not succeed.
Just redistribute "your" wealth. It should satisfy all claims against the U.S.A.! You can hold on to your ass, however. /s
Compliments for the 'outsider'? Anything that gets you 'mileage,' but does not benefit the 'guy and gal' across the street, eh?
Big ole bureaucracy and them thar' high paying union jobs, hmph! GSA pay is set by gov'mint officials and not market competition! Conservatives want to 'shut you down.'
What accent or dialect are you trying to aim for? The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE)
By officials, did you mean Congress?
Dems in 1978 with the Civil Service Reform Act prohibited federal unions from striking.
Why the question?
What mileage are you imagining?
but does not benefit the 'guy and gal' across the street, eh?
My neighbors across the street retired from Wall Street many years ago and volunteer at Ecumenical Community Helping Others (ECHO), an all volunteer charity that provides food, clothes, household items and financial help to families in need.
? Please elaborate.
Conservatives see many "overpaid bureaucrats" as likely something that should be outsourced to the free market. I though you knew? Oh, you didn't! Uh-uh.
What will some conservatives do when their leaders get around to writing their work descriptions away?
Overpaid? I'm so underpaid that that this is the only entertainment that I can afford.
I've also been a government contractor, but the job security is better as a Fed.
My boss is fairly conservative, I like my job description and my bonuses that he helps award.
Some conservatives should beware of this happening again!
I'll try harder, I certainly missed your point in 2.2.18.
Don’t talk about things you couldn’t begin to understand.
Nope and whoever comes for it better pack a lunch.
They will get around to you two, too! Your group wants you both to go out into the competitive job market and. . . well, compete!!!
I have no idea if you understand conservatism's role in this country, because if you do comprehend its breath, width, and height - you should be held accountable for all the misery you support along with those others in your 'party.'
Two, too, to!
I don’t have a group
I don’t care what they want, I like the security of a job for life while serving you.
lol ..... Liberals will be held accountable this summer and fall.
Stock up on butt cream. You’re gonna need it.
And so the struggle continues: What's new? Nothing apparently. You're gloating too soon, anyway. As your 'champion' sitting cooling in 'time-out.' And I am going to ponder if I want you discussing my butt in public and may get back with you.
Indeed.
Fantastic question. I wonder the same thing.
They won't.
Because the important 'repeating cycles' are economic, and we're not going to touch those. We're not even going to talk about how we might go about it. We're going to do a great deal of talking about our feelings, telling everybody we're "on the right side of history" or some other idiotic gobshite cliche'.
But we're not even going to discuss anything that might lead to tangible improvement, so future generations will have nothng to thank us for.
Who are you kidding? Economics is a powerful tool for governance and for upward mobility. At the end of the day, life is about more than that. Life encompasses "life," "liberty," and "pursuits, plural, of happiness" too! And most of you know this already, but are blinded by a desire to cut off people because of your biases, perceptions, and judgements.
And if you were richer than your wildest dreams, it is possible you could be a most miserable human being.
Remember: Howard Hughes, the hermit? Or, Leona Helmsley "only little people pay taxes" and who indicated in 2003 that her billions should go to poor people and dogs . A year later, the sources said, she dropped poor people from the list .
"Teach the children well." -Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
Sadly....nobody. Dead serious.
Excellent. Well we needn't worry about reparations then. It doesn't matter that black people are still disproportionately poor and increasing racial inequality must be a non-issue after all.
Riiight. Well you can pursue a whole lot more happiness when your bills are paid and you get a month off.
You calling other people "blinded" by "biases, perceptions and judgments" is very much the pot calling the kettle.... well... you get the idea.
Also, you forgot apathy. Never underestimate the ability of American men to stop giving a shit about things they won't be allowed to change.
We don't. That's a huge part of the problem. We want to spend all our time on "social and emotional learning" helping kids "feel better" about having almost no chance in life as opposed to spending time on math and science so they might actually have a chance.
That comes across like somebody who makes foolish talk.
"American men" is that code for something? Because as far as I know, 'American men" are allowed to create, manufacture, engineer, re-engineer, and modify a great many things! You got a special class of "American men" who "stopped giving a shit" we should know of?
Can't they do social and emotional learning (whatever that latter is), math and science, and feel better about themselves, Jack? And why the hyperbole about it be "all out time" and "almost no chance in life" bull patty? This is a conservative 'Karen song' and it's a big fat lie. Worse, it's conservatives such as yourself who are handicapping whole people groups in this country with an inability to grow, because you all are stuck in some forsaken loop!
No. If they learn math and science, they will achieve things and justifiably feel very good about themselves. Or....instead of teaching them how to rise in our upwardly mobile society, we can help them "feel better" by telling them their failures are not their fault because they are victims of evil bastards who "handicap whole people groups" or some other such gobshittery.
So you want us to believe poor kids from poor schools that don't learn math have abundant opportunities in the American economy? Are you sure?
I'm sure you imagine I have at least some faint idea what you're talking about. Alas.
That comes across like somebody who makes foolish talk.
What group is that?
those they want to pay for this silliness
There is zero chances of race reparations passing Congress or even a proposal on the table. Please also note this is a rightwing article written by a rightwing author intended for a rightwing audience. Reparations are a red banner which dependably triggers the "group" you speak of, but are unwilling to honestly identify!
You obviously have a specific group in mind so who might they be? Why are you hedging?
Then take that silly complaints up with the author and the seeder because this is not a news story. How do you think you guys all wound up here all triggered about something that is not even up for debate?
It is obviously taxpayers, which I am a member of that group.
You must make more that most as most don't pay federal income tax.
Silliness. This may have been a request too far and ridiculous, if, and its a rejected if at this point, white conservatives had simply stopped after the 'silliness' of trying to turn intelligent, thinking, caring people of color into chattel. Do you have any idea what it is to be 'defeated' and 'bucked' at every juncture in each succeeding generation? No, you don't - friend Charger. You've always enjoyed a kind of inherent confident of being in the majority here, even when issues and problems did not work out for you-it was not because society, culture, or heaven forbid the government was dead. set. against. white. advancement!
People of color as groups can only now can look 'up' from despairing here. And yet, there are whites still not ready to welcome as equals and with 'straight paths' those who they have always dwelt with all these hundreds of years.
We, all of us, can continue to do great things in this country together. Just get it understood, that this country's successes are because of it wide-ranging DIVERSITY in people, cultures, and personal drives. This country's multiplicity of races and groups is its strength-not its weakness!
Do you define "taxpayer" as only those who pay federal income tax? Because, poor and low income people often pay a very significant percentage their total incomes in other state and local fees and taxes...
Yes, that is why wasting taxpayer money pisses me off
A major state is putting 'hand to plow' to deal with this issue. And as we know once a precedent has been established, the domino-effect is possible. In the end, courts will have to look seriously at the issues of what states are doing, and 'following' (as on the same-sex marriage law) after Congress will 'lead.'
Of course, the usual suspects -conservatives- those 'lame foot draggers' will come along banging their skulls and screaming "sacrilege' because in their make-belief "America" is supposed to be a place where people excel by keeping SOMEBODY else individually and in class groups down.
That has nothing to do with the Fed.
The main revenue source of the Federal government is the Federal Income tax. Not state and local taxes.
That is to say roughly the top 50% AGI Americans. The other 50% are on the Federal dole.
100%
So are the vast majority of those that would qualify for reparations.
So, wtf is your issue?
I did not begrudge my tax dollars going to reparations for Japanese Americans, even though I wasn't alive when they were unjustly interned.
Nor did I begrudge my tax dollars going to pay the claim rewarded to the Sioux [Lakota] Nation for the US stealing their land and violating our treaty. I wasn't alive when that abhorrent shit started either. That money is still accumulating interest because the Lakota refuse to accept 'payment' for stolen land.
I will not begrudge my tax dollars going to pay reparations to the ancestors of the enslaved here in the US.
IMHO, there should also be reparations paid to the ancestors of ANY GI's who were denied the benefits of the GI bill, including the Filippino's that were drafted by the US and were denied GI benefits and pensions.
You’re right if we are discussing state or local reparations.
I thought that you wanted to expand the discussion to state or local reparations?
I think he gave you an answer.
Accept it and move on.
But they don't qualify. They are not victims. Some would say they are beneficiaries of numerous government programs that already cost the taxpayers dearly.
I could not care less what you think Vic.
You have no say in when or with whom I interact Vic.
Accept THAT and move on.
Medicaid, Snap , and EITC, the predominant government social programs , do not base qualification for the programs on race, and millions of whites collect them too.
Wow, since you've got it all figured out, Congress doesn't even need to stand up a Commission.
Please document what you base your conclusions on so it can be discussed.
Some would say that your comment is obfuscation and obtuse.
Well Charger, it's called a "progressive tax" for a reason. There is a saying and it goes like this: "Don't hate the players; hate the game." I will go one farther and say this: You got to play and strettttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttch out in the game of life-your choice to do or don't. We, people of color, were directed and led to the field of play handicapped, with one-arm strapped down, and told to take the 'crumbs' that fall for over two hundred years!
Same old some conservative playbook: If they are not getting paid for 'damning' somebody or something, they can't accept its happening.
Two hundred years? You need to pick up a copy of The 1619 Project or better yet, come to my town and visit the National Museum of African American History and Culture and learn about your peoples journey in our nation's history. A mile and hours of exhibits and a great restaurant for lunch, the Sweet Home Café. The Creoles Coast dishes are among my favorites there.
Please and there are no taxpayer programs benefiting conservatives, because. . . well. . . because. . . .? We know conservatives are hard-working machines, that never want for anything because when their crops get flooded out, when the drought hits, the famine, the dust storm, the hurricanes, the fires, the murderous rampages. . . conservatives are hearty and they just keep on ticking,. . . and ask taxpayers for less than they 'kick in.' Is that right, Vic E.?
Which is the reason that millions of US tax paying citizens are fleeing California.
Much like every other idea coming from California that Democrats and leftists want to spread across the US. Reparations will be fought at every turn. The only good thing is that at the rate California is losing population; soon they won't be the most politically powerful state in the US. That will stop their bullshit dead in it's tracks.
Because the majority of that money went to actual interned peoples, not a dozen generation down the line moochers that have almost no proof their ancestors were brought here as slaves.
With this I agree. My mother in law was a guerilla fighting for the Americans in WW2, still had her ID card until she passed and never received a dime for her efforts to the US.
You got jokes? If you've taken the tour as you suggest others do - how come you don't know about the years of terror conservative whites inflicted upon black citizens?
Here you are on 'stilts' talking down to me? Pretending not to be ashamed of the past misdeeds made to happen in this country and the lives made to perish so that you can stand over us protecting and claiming the nation's wealth as 'personal and private,' all the while telling people of color to "catch up"?
Yeah, you think you have jokes, but what you don't have is anything damn funny to say.
He if fucking with you for his amusement...
Because hundreds of years of generational human bondage followed by a century of institutional discrimination are funny /s...
Really JBB? - how very wrong you are. You've got your continents wrong.
Douglas Murray is a British subject - His writings are on British topics - repeat - BRITISH topics and, yes, he is a conservative, a neoconservative, is Islamophobic and he blasts the English/British government constantly.
I got special tours since a good friend is one of the first docents of the museum. His daughter, Candra Flanagan, is the director of the Teaching and Learning Unit in the museum’s Education Department. She does exceptional work with web tools for the museum.
Why would you think that I don’t?
I’ve not pretended about anything.
Why pretend that I’ve said that?
Read the heading - it states that it's an Op/Ed - you do know the difference between "News" and "Opinion/Editorial" right?
I’m amused here by comments here on a number of topics. I assume you are as well or you wouldn’t employ snark anymore than me. I generally avoid the gratuitous attacks that you seem to enjoy.
There is nothing on this seed that I’ve written that I don’t believe to be true and nothing is racist.
Some conservatives think we don't see them dogging liberals who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of color (majorities). Jim Crow 2.0 cloaks his and her vicious racist tendencies in conservative speech touting color-blindness. But for a group pretending to be color-blind these conservatives track 'real good' what white liberals, blacks, and other people of color are doing in the Democratic Party.
Color-blind? B-but they can see all the 'green' there is!
You might should act like it, and limit or drop the bull.
Population shifts are common. After all, states can't 'nail' their citizens feet to the ground can they? Besides, Texas, Florida, Oklahoma and the like are about to initiate a new round of shifts with all these policy prescriptions that are meant to made fine distinctions and leave a mark on people's freedoms, or lack thereof. Let's just see how it goes shall we?
Just for the record, what Governor Newsom is proposing with reparations comes as a complete shock to me-I must have not been keeping up with local news-until I recently saw the story. So, I am taking a look-see approach. Neither committed or uncommitted to the process.
And, like Barack Obama being elected president, most citizens of this country understand doing the right thing for the right reasons. Case in point. Billions sent overseas with nary a brow raised on "goodwill" ventures. EXCEPTION: Some conservatives cry foul. And we know they want it all for themselves.
What are you talking about, what did I write that you think is bull? Are you still imagining things that I said?
Lots of cra-cra in this world.
Especially when dosages are a little off .....
Why do you think that? Do you think that I’m “dogging liberals who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of color”? Have I written anything here that you believe is untrue?
While that may be YOUR reason for not begrudging those reparations, it isn't mine bugsy.
Nor did my great uncle and aunt.
Wow, some empathy finally! Respect. So it is there to be stirred.
We have found a point of agreement on this.
There are immense fatal flaws in this article. First of all, there is literally nothing new in this article, it is the same objection to reparations we have been hearing for 50 years. Why is the NY Post printing this today?
Near the end of the article the writer says that too much time has passed between slavery and today to make reparations justifiable. Why didnt reparations occur earlier? Because white racism was so pervasive for most of this country's history that no one would seriously consider it. Right after emancipation there was talk of giving ex slaves some land of their own that they could work , which would have constituted reparations of a kind, but nothing ever came of it and quickly treatment of blacks devolved into Jim Crow, which not only didnt provide for any reparations for ex slaves but actually oppressed them.
The article makes the argument that there should be no reparations because Africans sold their "brethren" into slavery as if that even remotely explains the existence of millions of African slaves on the cotton plantations of the US in the 1800's. American slavery is an American problem and an American responsibility, not an African one.
The writers tone seems to be "its all good now" in the 2000's and the playing field is level, but as Coates pointed out in his famous essay calling for reparations, black people in America were deprived of the chance to create generational wealth over the course of a couple hundred years, and this is not in any way a small or insignificant thing. For a long long time most blacks were not able to buy property in geographical areas where the property would gain real value over time, the houses they were allowed to buy were in aging, deteriorating areas away from the best access to good jobs and the prospect of rising property values.
I dont think we need to make individual blacks rich, or even well off, with reparations, but we need to do something.
Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country.
It's the "victim card" played poorly. In Tucker Carlson like fashion: 'Those mean African slave traders too advantage of our ancestor's ignorance and greed and sold us these ignorant blacks to come be a burden to our purity and traditional ways.'
If only the colonies had failed on the world stage, instead of besting the odds! Then, it could easily be accepted that those 'darkies' were a real menace to great achievement and continuance.
The most Black people would be Africans with very few African-Americas.
And, where would stranded English and former English citizens be? Fortunately, it did not play out that way and we, all our of fore-bearers were here for each other, by default. The results on full display for all to see and remark upon. (In case it is not clear, English founders did not succeed on their strengths alone, they used the strengths and effectual power of everybody dwelling here to produce their world which lead to ours.) Now try all you wish, but history can not be severed or uncoupled from the people and tribes that created this country!
I haven't tried and why do you think that I wish?
Because you parse a great many contextual sentences and paragraphs, and then expound on what 'you' say with a lack of the whole 'thought' intact. Keep the narrative tight and it will help communication and save time for readers and writers alike!
I am guilty of believing that we should review US events within the larger context of world or human history.
I don't know what you mean.
Reply in context of the totality of the comment coming before in mind. It's easy, with practice. You can even enhance an earlier comment, by add-ons, but 'chopping' a comment to bits and pieces runs the risk of meaning becoming dicey.
Can you restate that, I don’t know what you mean.
Read comments and when you reply take into account the totality of what the read comment hopes to communicate across to the reader. Even if you only wish to enhance or add-on to its meaning. Or, to write your own counter-narrative.
Thanks for clearing that up.
You're welcome.
Wrong but many of us will be happy to tell folks who expects us to pay reparations, for an ancient past we had nothing to do with, to kiss our lily white ass.
“…kiss our lily white ass.”
You should trademark that, sparky…could easily become the 2024 gop mantra.
Can already see the banners, bumper stickers and flags proudly displayed.
LOL, you are doubling and tripling down. How cute.
absolutely
Can’t .... it’s already trademarked.
Two things, you have a spelling error, which is telling and this seed isn’t about me.
Thought you could use the assist in being more accurate.
Thanks, that means a lot coming from you John.
A lot.
The United States is not ancient.
Although, to suit your purposes, you very much desire to put as much distant between today and 1776 as you can get away with doing. Not going to happen. Now if you want to talk about 20,000 years ago on this 'spot' of the continent. . . give credit to the Native Americans (tribes )!
Et tú, Charger?! Why would you think of the first English colonists arriving here as "ancient"? That is simply not borne out by the timeline.
Exactly, most were young men and older boys, not at all ancient.
Yes, 400 years is more precise.
Yes, the Native Americans were this land's ancient people. Props, to the ancient Indigenous people of our land! No one should try to ignore their past with rhetoric!
Props? Their policy of Open Borders failed to serve them well.
As a country, slavery is ancient history. Talk of reparations is nothing more than greed.
Nothing more ....
Not if some in this country get their way! What's old (not ancient) can be new again. and greed implies having more than what one needs-not so for people on the margins of society.
I think that there were just under 4 million in the US in 1860 and around 1.8 million were working cotton. A huge increase after the invention of the cotton gin in 1793. Only 5% or 600,000 of the 12 million slave taken from Africa came to North America. Unlike slavery in the Caribbean and Central and South America, most slave here were born here.
“…most slave here were born here.”
Ah, home grown terrorism. That makes it all copacetic. Only 5%…well slap ourselves on the back and save the whip. Sheesh.
As if being born a slave and dying a slave on the same goddamn sugar or cotton plantation in Alabama or Mississippi made it all better...
And, As if taking money from people over 160 years later is going to make the dead feel any better
The excuses they make, which are well known by now, have a tinge of racism.
Some people want to "mitigate" the effect of slavery and even racism by saying something could have been worse or the victims didnt have it so bad. This crap has been going on forever and is a sympathetic view of the confederacy at heart.
Terrorism? Huh?
Don’t care for number in history?
Sheesh.
Sorry, I didn’t realize that historical facts would trigger you.
Who made an excuse?
How does that mitigate? Maybe that’s just your bias running away with you.
Bred. The appropriate term for chattel (people). And breeding practices took interest and center-stage in the colonies, because importation of slaves to the colonies' was ending and stopped.
Ok.
And breeding practices took interest and center-stage in the colonies, because importation of slaves to the colonies' was ending and stopped.
" Unlike elsewhere in the New World, the South did not require constant infusions of immigrant slaves to keep its slave population intact. In fact, by 1825, 36 percent of the slaves in the Western hemisphere lived in the U.S. This was partly due to higher birth rates , which were in turn due to a more equal ratio of female to male slaves in the U.S. relative to other parts of the Americas. Lower mortality rates also figured prominently. Climate was one cause; crops were another. U.S. slaves planted and harvested first tobacco and then, after Eli Whitney’s invention of the cotton gin in 1793, cotton. This work was relatively less grueling than the tasks on the sugar plantations of the West Indies and in the mines and fields of South America. Southern slaves worked in industry, did domestic work, and grew a variety of other food crops as well, mostly under less abusive conditions than their counterparts elsewhere. For example, the South grew half to three-quarters of the corn crop harvested between 1840 and 1860."
At the least these people are fit in the selfish and greedy: "I got mine!" category. At best these people are mentally 'stunted' at the original intent level of this country. At its inception, the model for the United States was that of "rugged individualism" - where every man(wife, child, children) is for himself! "Buyer beware!" ("Caveat emptor.") That grew ever so incrementally to become: "For the tribe!"
But conservatives never agreed to: "Out of the many-One!"
Though early on, it became crystal clear that an "anemic" congress and "castrated" presidents were not going to be able to control a wide-open country with roaming bands of 'cut-throats' and other murderous, conniving, and scheming parties of men and women! So, the emergence of: U.S. MARSHALS and afterwards a growing system of policies and laws to govern - the ungovernable.
Conservatives have been malcontents, who are stuck under '"he bar'"or simply choose not to come up to its level.
They see the growth, development, and maturing of this great country as loss of its so-called, "innocence." Of course, liberals, see growth, development, and maturity as essential progress.
I think that you've forgotten the volunteer fire departments that started almost 300 years ago and continue to this day. Volunteers fought in our wars starting with the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War. Volunteers started the YMCA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and the United Way. Abolitionists were volunteers that raised money and were active politically. From barn raising to today's food banks, American history is filled with volunteers.
What is your argument? A. Breeding of slaves stock. B. Importation to the colonies stoppage. C. Quality of slave 'agriculture.
I didn't make an argument.
And?
And I'm sorry that my disagreement with your assertion that the US was a model for "rugged individualism" wasn't more self evident to you.
Volunteer forces are in-alignment with rugged individualism. The problem is it is slow of 'feat' in large urban centers where shit can happen enmasse and professionals are needed on 'stand-by.' Its the maturing of a country into major population centers that allow you to enjoy the plains, hills, "simple-living," and scenic 'backdrops' of outdoor-outback living.
How so?
' Its the maturing of a country into major population centers that allow you to enjoy the plains, hills, "simple-living," and scenic 'backdrops' of outdoor-outback living.
I live in a urban/suburban county of 1.8 million when you add the separate locals of Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church and Fairfax City to the county.
Booey for you. Then you can appreciate that volunteer agencies can't hand the 'load' of a city properly. Your remark about such agencies and activities is superfluous.
Booey?
Baba boooey?
Lol.. The difference between white and black wealth is mainly in the top 10%. The top 10% of whites are much wealthier than the top 10% of blacks.
Will making rich blacks much richer in the name of equity end racial strife?
but we need to do something.
Right. Nothing's been done. Those 300,000 Americans who gave their lives to end slavery. Big deal. The 19 trillion in public funds on the "war on poverty" that have disproportionally benefited black people. Billions in affirmative action programs. Nothing's been done
Nothing exemplifies the weakness of your argument more than your need to ignore vast swaths of history. Talk about misinformation
Examining the Black-white wealth gap
A close examination of wealth in the U.S. finds evidence of staggering racial disparities. At $171,000, the net worth of a typical white family is nearly ten times greater than that of a Black family ($17,150) in 2016. Gaps in wealth between Black and white households reveal the effects of accumulated inequality and discrimination, as well as differences in power and opportunity that can be traced back to this nation’s inception. The Black-white wealth gap reflects a society that has not and does not afford equality of opportunity to all its citizens.
Efforts by Black Americans to build wealth can be traced back throughout American history. But these efforts have been impeded in a host of ways, beginning with 246 years of chattel slavery and followed by Congressional mismanagement of the Freedman’s Savings Bank (which left 61,144 depositors with losses of nearly $3 million in 1874), the violent massacre decimating Tulsa’s Greenwood District in 1921 (a population of 10,000 that thrived as the epicenter of African American business and culture, commonly referred to as “Black Wall Street”), and discriminatory policies throughout the 20 th century including the Jim Crow Era’s “Black Codes” strictly limiting opportunity in many southern states, the GI bill, the New Deal’s Fair Labor Standards Act’s exemption of domestic agricultural and service occupations, and redlining. Wealth was taken from these communities before it had the opportunity to grow.
This history matters for contemporary inequality in part because its legacy is passed down generation-to-generation through unequal monetary inheritances which make up a great deal of current wealth. In 2020 Americans are projected to inherit about $765 billion in gifts and bequests, excluding wealth transfers to spouses and transfers that support minor children. Inheritances account for roughly 4 percent of annual household income, much of which goes untaxed by the U.S. government.
Just how large and persistent are these racial wealth gaps? As figure 1 shows, median net worth for white households has far exceeded that of Black households through recessions and booms over the last thirty years. While movements in white wealth are easier to see due to the larger scale, during the most recent economic downturn, median net worth declined by more for Black families (44.3 percent decline from 2007 to 2013) than for white families (26.1 percent decline). In fact, the ratio of white family wealth to Black family wealth is higher today than at the start of the century.
Median wealth—or the wealth of the household at the middle of a distribution—gives the experience of the typical family, but does not reflect the bulk of national wealth that is held by the richest households. White average wealth ($929,800), which is more influenced by very rich families and does not characterize the typical experience, is 6.7 times greater than Black average wealth ($138,100).
White adults tend to be older (median age of 55) than African Americans (49 years old), and older people tend to have more wealth, but figure 2 shows that the wealth gap remains when looking within age groups. The typical young adult (18–34 years old) of either race has little wealth, but the gap rises quickly with age, and for 65–74-year-olds accumulates to $302,500 in median white wealth and $46,890 in median Black wealth.
Wealth is the sum of resources available to a household at a point in time; as such it is clearly influenced by the income of a household, but the two are not perfectly correlated. Two households can have the same income, but the household with fewer expenses, or with more accumulated wealth from past income or inheritances, will have more wealth. Figure 3 shows median net worth at different points in the family income distribution. What is immediately evident is that the racial wealth gap remains even for families with the same income. For those in the top 10 percent by income (only 3.6 percent Black), the racial wealth gap is still quite large: median net worth for white families in this income group is $1,789,300 versus $343,160 for Black families.
A racial gap exists in every income group except the bottom quintile (23.5 percent Black), where median net worth is zero for everyone.
Why are high- and middle-income white families so much wealthier than Black families with the same incomes? We note a few reasons. White families receive much larger inheritances on average than Black families. Economists Darrick Hamilton and Sandy Darity conclude that inheritances and other intergenerational transfers “account for more of the racial wealth gap than any other demographic and socioeconomic indicators.” In addition, the income groups in figure 2 are based on a snapshot of family income, which does not fully capture lifetime income. Black families who make it to the top of the income distribution in a particular year are more likely than white families to drop out of the top in subsequent years, and their respective wealth levels reflect this difference. Likely less important, but still notable, high- and middle-income Black families are more likely than their white counterparts to be called upon to assist family members and neighbors.
All of this matters because wealth confers benefits that go beyond those that come with family income. Wealth is a safety net that keeps a life from being derailed by temporary setbacks and the loss of income. This safety net allows people to take career risks knowing that they have a buffer when success is not immediately achieved. Family wealth allows people (especially young adults who have recently entered the labor force) to access housing in safe neighborhoods with good schools, thereby enhancing the prospects of their own children. Wealth affords people opportunities to be entrepreneurs and inventors. And the income from wealth is taxed at much lower rates than income from work, which means that wealth begets more wealth.
There is no single, simple explanation for the racial wealth gap. It is not explained away by differences in educational attainment, as Darrick Hamilton and Trevon Logan show in a recent article, and as we show in a recent Hamilton Project volume on tax policy. It is not accounted for by indebtedness—white families actually tend to have higher levels of debt. It is not even fully accounted for by differences in income, as seen in figure 3. In addition, the fact that intergenerational transfer of wealth is lightly taxed means that historical gaps persist over generations. Furthermore, inadequate investments in the public goods that facilitate economic mobility make it harder to erase past gaps.
The solutions to the Black-white wealth gap—and the policies that address racial inequity more generally—are largely outside the scope of this post. But the analysis above points to at least one type of reform: taxation of income from wealth. The income from inheritances, and from wealth more generally, is taxed at an inequitably low rate, especially when compared to earnings.
Well-designed taxes on inheritances, reforms to capital income taxation, and even taxes on wealth could be part of the solution. Inheritance or estate taxes in particular could enhance equality of opportunity, especially if revenues were invested in programs that give low-income children a better chance at economic success.
www.brookings.edu /blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/Kriston McIntosh, Emily Moss, Ryan Nunn, Jay Shambaugh7-9 minutes 2/27/2020
That's a long way of saying "you are correct"
So the "Wealth gap" that is relatively small can be more than explained by differences in education level and family cohesiveness. The idea that the median white person enjoys some massive patrimony that catapults them into a life of ease is preposterous.
A racial gap exists in every income group except the bottom quintile (23.5 percent Black), where median net worth is zero for everyone.
Bold talk, JR, mighty bold talk.
No kidding. Why would you think that's a rebuttal to what I wrote?
There is nothing in that article that says "you are correct".
Because the premise is correct and can't be disputed.
Why didnt reparations occur earlier?
There were two plans formulated when Lincoln was still alive: 1) was to send the freed slaves back to the places they were taken from, or to a nation called Liberia. 2) was to break up the old plantations and give each newly freed slave / family a mule and 40 acres of land. (I favor the former) The problem was Lincoln was assassinated and his VP Andrew Johnson had much different ideas. Unfortunately, the "victims" are no longer with us.
The writers tone seems to be "its all good now" in the 2000's and the playing field is level, but as Coates pointed out in his famous essay calling for reparations, black people in America were deprived of the chance to create generational wealth over the course of a couple hundred years, and this is not in any way a small or insignificant thing.
Coates is a woke thug.
I dont think we need to make individual blacks rich, or even well off, with reparations, but we need to do something.
As I say to the Harvard faculty who feel guilt: YOU DO IT!
And that constituted "reparations" in your mind? Amazing !
That was his answer to the question Why didnt reparations occur earlier?
Would you like us to believe that his answer to a specific question did not address that question?
Why do you do nothing but try and nit pick others comments? Do you have anything substantial to say about the topic?
Well, white conservative descendants of people that look like you benefited from the free labor of slaves and continue to benefit from being strident against this country's equality and equity treatment of all its citizens. Some conservatives are a non-stop problem for this country. If not careful, there will be another 'federal' case made for a different set of reparations by citizens who are being oppressed by conservative ideology 'today.' Keep it up. Watch it not go away on its own!
And no one cares where you and those of like-mind with you would have liked to send blacks, because as you can see-nature took its own course. And this country is better off for it!
The myth is this country is great because of white conservatives, sure, in part, but it foolish to think that all that has been accomplished in this country is not a blend of all the inhabitants "shaken up and pressed down together" to lift our nation to its dominating superpower status.
I challenge you to demonstrate differently! So, let's take that implied lie off the table right here and now!!
There was nothing free about it. Slaves were expensive to buy and they had to be feed, sheltered and clothed. That cost coupled with growing industrialization of the Northern economy meant that by the end of the American Revolution, slavery became largely unprofitable in the North and was slowly dying out. Slaves continued to be economical on large farms where labor-intensive cash crops, such as tobacco, sugar and rice, could be grown in the South.
Of course, slaves were not 'free' - any more than owning any other costly 'beasts of burden.' That didn't stop or slow early slaveholders intent to own, nevertheless.
By the way, slaves and their progeny were capitalized when needed: A. To obtain loans. B. To 'shore up' failing enterprises. C. As workers to pay off debts (let your mind imagine who/what/how that could 'exhaust' itself (rape/ murders/theft/robberies/sexual release - perhaps we're never get a clear reading on it?) D. For profit auction sales. E. Infused with the master's "pedigree" to create a distinct stock grade. F. As ordered by the authorities and required "amenities."
For himself or herself a slave was of limited or 'worthless' value. For the master a slave was an awesome, living, breathing, walking, thinking "automaton."
Exactly, I knew that was just a slip on the keyboard before.
Your keyboard perhaps? Not mine. And you're ineptly parsing sentences again.
Do you thing that parsing words is bad, why? What are some examples of my inept parsing that you see?
Why do so many conservatives on this forum think their role is to micromanage the comments of others?
Do they have so little they wish to, or are able to, say?
The number of inconsequential comments made by right wingers on this site is off the charts.
Is that even possible?
Will you share the stats?
Look inward.
For all those who have guilt over things that happened generations ago, you have an option. Put together a non profit and ask for donations from like minded people.
Then you can hand it out to your hearts intent.
Good luck .... I might donate a few bucks if you ask nicely ....
You've and your defensive rhetoric. Conservative donation won't suffice ("tricky hands," but thanks for those 'thoughts and prayers' anyway. You got jokes! I bet even a million of them, huh?
Is 'class' out yet; can I be "Dismissed"?
C’mon man, don’t be weak. Man up and lead. Pull yourself up by your boot straps and start that company to pay your reparations. Stop expecting someone else to pay your way. That’s some weak shit there CB.
Perhaps you can ask for some of your BLM donations back. Those donations went a long way to help people of color. The ones living in the mansions they bought that is.
You pull up your bootstraps and be grateful nobody 'shorted' your supply of laces. Thanks for that 'man talk' at the butt end of every thang, Okay - Good night and dismissed, SO.
[deleted]
Reparations make amends for wrongs and repair damage. There is nothing wrong with reparations, but there are many ways to go about it. Cash is not the only way to make reparations. It’s not always the best way, and it may not even be part of reparation at all.
When it comes issues of racial justice, especially evolving out of slavery in the US, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution are reparations. Justice in the Supreme Court - e.g. Brown v Board of Education - is reparations. A nation of white people electing a black president is reparation. Civil Rights Acts are reparation. Fair Housing is reparation. Ongoing efforts to ensure equity and justice are reparation.
All of the above items, and more not mentioned, are far more significant and effective reparation that writing checks to random people.
Nonsense. All the amendments and the Brown vs Board of Education decision did is acknowledge the rights and citizenship of people who were for the most part born here.
=========================================================================
Just granting citizenship or basic rights is not reparations.
It's a shame you articulated this. Our country is a lying, heaving, monstrosity, because of the need for these ADDITIONAL materials, and not one of these policies or laws came without some white people wringing their hands, and some even writhing in pain or loss to make all of the possibilities emergent. They rights and privileges were ours (promises made) the moment our constitution was signed-but then again, they were not ours! And how could that distinction exist out in the open?! Because, some of the people in our country were detestable and sick in mind and in their hearts.
I could continue in this mindset, but I would probably break out into a rage and swearing every other word!
Black people and others are grateful for the laws and the "goodness" of white people who have advocated for the good cause, but (clenching and releasing here) that many of our generations of everybody dwelling in our homeland who are not APPROVED OF BY CONSERVATISM, have felt the arrogance and 'whip and lash' of conservatives means this we are not free to be ourselves!
Thus, the United States is a fraudulent nation. The United States is not exceptional! The United States kills the spirit of its people! The United States is a lie!
And, yet the people 'flourish' despite being repeatedly stabbed in their political and societal 'hearts.'
At least we receive spirit from our growing immigrant population. In 1975, only about 5% of our population was born outside of the US, today it's about 15%.
You seem to think that I’m saying we are done. I’m not. In fact, I used the word “ongoing.” I do think that in this case, money is not the right approach. It would have been a more appropriate component of reparation in 1865, but not so much now.
He may be just frustrated right now.
We were not treated like early Americans, Tacos! It was an amazing lie! It was destructive, demoralizing, it was inhuman. We were berefted of our humanity, while all the time knowing we could not buy into the 'delusion.' And then once our humanity was recognized by Lincoln, the social stigmatizing began in earnest. Some whites in some states would talk about our smell ('beastly'), talk about our communication lack of skills mockingly, cheat us to our faces, run us out of towns (sundown laws meant once 'chores' were done - you had nothing of interest to your 'fellow' citizenship), hired and armed transit bus drivers (Georgia) to shoot us down without any legal recourse, and then came police 'patrols.'
How is any of any of that not as bad or worse than for the Japanese Americans? For example: Were Japanese ever stigmatized by "colored" water fountains?
White people can give change or alter our known and traversed history in the United States, but they can do what needs to be done to make peace with their own wrongs.
It is ironic to here today's conservative use a talking point about "think of the kids of tomorrow" - what will they have because of the so-called sin of doing right by a segment of citizen's of today.
Now throw that thought back through time and ask: What if early white settlers had considered the harm they were setting their child/ren of right now up for when they conducted themselves horribly to the people of color in their lifetimes?
I'm with you CB, You've got the JA beat by a mile or more.
BTW, the way have you noticed how conservatives 'explode' to the weakening or 'unlatching' of a freedom, privilege, or service in this country? It should give the same conservatives pause to think that they EVER let so much worse happen to their fellow citizens. Instead, they do make it worse through 'gaslighting' minorities—while we are steadily looking right into their eyes.
I don’t disagree with the things you have said, but I still believe the best thing we can do, going forward, is to build a more just and loving society. I think there is much greater value in that than just printing more money and spreading it around.
In fact, the kind of large scale distribution of money that many propose would only serve to devalue that money, creating a society of want and desperation, which will only lead to greater injustice and brutality.
i don’t know what you mean by explode or unlatching.
Don't take this as being irresponsible, okay? But if our society and economy is supposed to 'tank' and this experiment in liberty, freedom, and prosperity is doomed to failure then, let it. Trying to keep national hypocrisy (lie) afloat by stiffing 'the other guys' makes us all look ridiculous to clear-eyed, reasonable people here and abroad.
It would seem to some here and abroad, I am pretty sure, that the U.S. is trying to buy friends; 'pushing' cold-hard cash into their faces in order to hide our indecent and low national character.
Truth be told, our international friends highly probably want this nation to repair it's internal relationships first before exporting any more of our brokenness abroad! It might 'leap' onto them if we get too close!
Okay.
Supposed to, like fate or destiny?
Running on bullshit can only take this nation's reputation so far; it is questionable where it will come to a rest. It is better to come clean with the black citizenry and other people of color about what was done and what must be done to settle it: once and for all. Otherwise, this nation's millstone will continue to dangle around its neck (and its future black, brown, red, yellow, and especially white children) indefinitely. Each generation as morally sick (and tired) as we are today of this (America's: White / people of color problem.)
Why do you think that is what the country principally runs on?
Do you not know what was done?
What would that be?
more free stuff .... that should fix it once and for all.
You conservatives should know about that, as most, not all of you, transact your souls away every day to make 'ends meet.'
A better question for you: Since the United States has been a nation; how long has it been 'sick in the head'?
Who is causing the United States to stay sick in the head: (Choose one, please.)
Always labeling people. I say, let the labeled people free.
LPM ..... set my labeled people free ......
7.) people who are off their meds and/or are having dosing issues
Nation's can't be mentally ill. A portion of it's population can, you can argue that some aspects of a culture or society are better than others for mental health.
What do you mean that the US nation is 'sick in the head'?
You choose to evade the question. Okay. I'm fine with that!
Again, I'm not a doctor but a nation isn't a single person, I asked you to clarify your question. You haven't done that. Okay, I'm fine with that.
Number 2