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Beyond Redemption

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 years ago  •  124 comments

Beyond Redemption
“I want to be very careful not to interfere with ongoing personnel matters,” Wray said when asked about whether this was true by Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Thursday. “I should say that when I read the letter that describes the kinds of things that you’re talking about, I found it deeply troubling.”

Link to quote: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/wray-fbi-whistleblower-claims-hunter-biden-inquiry-deeply-troubling



Towering above all federal agencies is the invincible fiefdom known as the FBI. It began as part of Teddy Roosevelt's reform movement shortly after a Marxist put a bullet into the stomach of President
McKinley. Later, under the leadership of it's hardest working director, J Edgar Hoover it morphed into the special crime fighting force we once came to know & admire. Over the decades the agency, through numerous regulations and underhanded tactics began to become an all powerful organization. It violated surveillance laws when going after members of organized crime as well as left wing extremist organizations during the late 60's. The latter it actually got called out for. To add insult to injury, sometime during the presidency of Barack Obama it began to become political.

I won't bother with the non-political corruption, such as the Whitey Bulger case or the framing of innocent men. I'm far more concerned with the political corruption. Much of that began with the election of 2016. That was the year that the FBI conducted a sham investigation into Hillary Clinton's e-mail server. The honest among us remember how the FBI gave out immunity like candy and even allowed subpoenaed information to be destroyed. In the end Director James Comey announced that the bureau would not recommend that any charges be brought against Clinton. Later the inspector general for the DOJ would find that Comey had deviated from FBI protocols during the investigation. Five FBI employees were referred by IG Horowitz for further investigation. The new FBI Director, Chris Wray vowed to hold people accountable for any misconduct. Nobody was ever held accountable.

Then there were the FISA warrant applications which were based upon the fictitious Steele Dossier and doctored by FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith. Clinesmith later pled guilty to doctoring the FISA applications and got zero prison time. Just probation. Very recently he got his DC Law license reinstated.

Former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe was fired for allowing FBI material to be leaked and later misleading investigators about the leaks. The IG said he "lacked candor" while under oath.  McCabe was also involved in a lawsuit over sexual harassment during his time at the FBI. He has since settled a lawsuit with the Justice Department which allowed him to get his pension back and was hired by CNN as an analyst.

Agent Peter Strzok (famous for his "We'll stop Trump" texts) was at the head of a secret investigation into Donald Trump as well as being deeply involved in the Clinton investigation. He was later fired amid controversy and the IG's call for an investigation for misconduct.

The Mueller Investigation was a complete farce. Somehow the left managed to get Trump's AG to recuse himself and their man at the DOJ to call for a Special Counsel investigation. This fishing expedition went on for 2 years, cost $32 Million, was loaded from top to bottom with Trump haters and failed to find anything close to collusion. It handed off it's final report to a democratic House of representatives with nothing more than what might have been in Donald Trump's mind.

The Whitmer Kidnap plot was another example of FBI misconduct. Twelve FBI agents penetrated the group known as the Wolverine Watchmen and entrapped them.

The Hunter Laptop - This damning piece of evidence which was suppressed by the MSM during the 2020 election was in FBI custody. Now the FBI claims that it vanished.


Here is the man who promised to hold people accountable:





At this point I am afraid that the firing of Wray and a house cleaning at the FBI will not be enough. It is beyond redemption. It must be abolished.

I don't know if any agency can be trusted with that much power ever again.


Tags

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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 years ago

It needs to be done.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
1.1  pat wilson  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 years ago

Did you have a problem when they investigated Hillary's emails ?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @1.1    2 years ago

I had a big problem with the way that was handled.

And you?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2  Sean Treacy    2 years ago

Mr Wray has no time for these questions, he got to use a taxpayer funded private jet to fly to his vacation home!   

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @2    2 years ago

He's out as soon as DeSantis is sworn in!

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    2 years ago

From your lips to Donald's ears!

If Trump decides (or is able) to run, 2024 maybe a 'Bridge to Near' for DeSantis to keep his feet dry whilst straddling the MAGA Rubicon. I presume DeSantis is smart enough not to want to inherit the crazies that Trump is littering the current political landscape with. At 43 and depending on how the political planets align, it may be best for him to wait for 2028 and to work quietly in the backroom for the purge the GoP is in desperate need of.

Of course DeSantis could always promise to give Donald a backdoor 'presidential' pardon ...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.1    2 years ago

Pay attention: This article is about what happened to the FBI.

This is not a safe space. You will be informed.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.2    2 years ago

You brought DeSantis into it. That said, if this is "not a safe space" I'm sure you have informed the 'NT FBI' and they have broken into it. /s

B.T.W. Leon Czolgosz was an anarchist, not a Marxist.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.3    2 years ago
You brought DeSantis into it.

Lol and you brought Trump into. Mine was relevant and yours was not.


That said, if this is "not a safe space" I'm sure you have informed the 'NT FBI' and they have broken into it. /s

You're slipping.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.5  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.4    2 years ago
You're slipping.

So are you ... see the updated comment.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  Hallux @2.1.5    2 years ago

You're not slipping Hal.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.5    2 years ago
see the updated comment.

 anarchism = a violent violent offshoot of Marxism.


See, everyday you learn something here.

Class will resume at 9AM tomorrow.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @2.1.1    2 years ago
the crazies that Trump is littering the current political landscape with.

Lol .... the foaming at the mouth, TDS ridden liberal kooks far outnumber them these days.

Far outnumber .... especially the ones who don’t even live here ....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.7    2 years ago

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.9    2 years ago

And indoctrinated horses may die of thirst!

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.11  Hallux  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.6    2 years ago

Headlong into an urn I am.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.11    2 years ago

What's a Greek Urn?

Answer: About $600 a week.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.13  Hallux  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.9    2 years ago

Hauling out trite aphorisms is not an indication that you can think.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.14  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.12    2 years ago

What did the Greek Shepard say to the American tourist?

After we fuck 'em you eat 'em!

Too rough?

As the Greek tailor observed: Euripides, Eumenides!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.14    2 years ago

Sounds like Kitchener Leslie.

You have heard of him?

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
2.1.16  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.15    2 years ago

No, I will look him up ... first a trip to the pharmacy.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.17  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @2.1.16    2 years ago

It may help to look him up under Norm Macdonald

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.18  Sparty On  replied to  Hallux @2.1.13    2 years ago

Truth is rarely trite.  

Especially to the sane and unbiased.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
2.1.19  afrayedknot  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.18    2 years ago

“Truth is rarely trite.”

Close…but the truth is never trite.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  afrayedknot @2.1.19    2 years ago

Close but not required ......

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
2.1.21  Split Personality  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.7    2 years ago

What nonsense is that?

Another opinion?

an·ar·chism
[ˈanərˌkizəm]
NOUN
  1. a political theory advocating the abolition of hierarchical government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.
    • anarchists as a political force or movement:
      "ruling-class fears of international anarchism during the 1890s"

    anarchism definition - Search (bing.com)

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.22  Sparty On  replied to  Split Personality @2.1.21    2 years ago

What nonsense is that?  

Anarchism and Marxism share many of the same objectives.   Few of which are very realistic in society today or ever.

Better study up SP.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.22    2 years ago

anarchism is closer to libertarianism than it is to marxism. 

we used to have a member here who called himself an "anarcho-capitalist" which is a term to describe anarchy from the right. it is also libertarian in philosophy. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3  author  Vic Eldred    2 years ago

Whistleblowers revealed widespread FBI misconduct ahead of Trump raid, multiple lawmakers say.

2DoC0vXB?format=jpg&name=small


 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3    2 years ago

More Just The News bs. You never learn. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 years ago

Everything in there is accurate.


 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 years ago

Gawd, it is amazing that when it comes to Trump, you are always against him.    No matter what.  

[deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.2    2 years ago

The fixation with Trump is little understood.


 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
3.1.4  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.3    2 years ago

Ah Sigmund, along with Durham another Lenin look-alike.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.1.4    2 years ago

As you know, he was celebrated in academia.

I think the feminists have proved him right about penis envy.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
3.1.6  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.5    2 years ago

Ah yes, those feminists that you are so wanting to besmirch. Let's just end it for today ... I prefer Anais Nin over Ayn Rand any which way.

Have a good one Vic, I have a real-men-don't-eat quiche to make.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.1.6    2 years ago

II never figured you for that.

Bona-Petite

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
3.1.8  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.7    2 years ago
Bona-Petite

That's what Anais called Henry. Her hubby could sink battleships.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.5    2 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.5    2 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
3.1.11  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.5    2 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4  author  Vic Eldred    2 years ago

EXCLUSIVE : Sen. Ron Johnson Calls For FBI , DOJ Employees To Come Forward With Info On Trump Mar-A-Lago Raid

m-DuNcE0?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    2 years ago

Ron Johnson is an absurd conspiracy nut. I wouldnt believe him if he said water is wet. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
4.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 years ago
Ron Johnson is an absurd conspiracy nut.

So you know him?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 years ago

And the FISA Chief Judge will never trust the FBI again.

 
 
 
Hallux
Masters Principal
4.1.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.2    2 years ago

Clyde Hayward? ;- )

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @4.1.3    2 years ago

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
4.1.5  Thomas  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 years ago

As well as a known liar.

But some foolish people keep listening to him.

 
 
 
Freewill
Junior Quiet
4.1.6  Freewill  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 years ago
I wouldnt believe him if he said water is wet.

Would you believe Amway if they said, "LOC can make water wetter"?  jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    2 years ago

Your endless affection for the belief that Trump is an innocent man wrongfully accused (which is absurd) casts doubts on the rest of your theories that truly cannot be overcome. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.1  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @5    2 years ago

So rather than ask just what the fuck the FBI has turned into, you ignore the seed and all the history around what is happening in the FBI and use this seed to instead accuse someone of defending Donald Trump.  Says an awful lot about  you.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @5.1    2 years ago
So rather than ask just what the fuck the FBI has turned into,

Generally, I dont believe right wing media, which is a morass of conspiracy theories and misinformation. I dont accept the sources that say the FBI is corrupt and persecuted Trump. Its that simple. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @5.1    2 years ago

There is not a single link in the body of the seeded article. It is Vics viewpoint which we all know is based on conspiracy theories and misinformation, and far right biases. Give me some links from mainstream media to the things Vic alleges the FBI has done and I will look at them. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5.1.2    2 years ago

Instead of trashing everybody John why not admit that anyone of the things I listed is COMMON KNOWLEDGE. Are you actually contesting something like the biased investigations of Clinton and Trump?

Where is Hunter's Laptop, John???

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.4  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.3    2 years ago

Lookie! Christopher Wray and Merrick Garland just called your bluff!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @5.1.4    2 years ago

Let me tune in

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @5.1.4    2 years ago

How so?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @5    2 years ago

Your endless affection for the belief that Trump is a guilty man with no evidence to back it up casts doubts on the rest of your theories that truly cannot be overcome.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2    2 years ago
Your endless affection for the belief that Trump is a guilty man with no evidence to back it up

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.1    2 years ago

Removed for context

But back to the topic at hand, am I correct that you support the FBI and their partisan methodology?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.2    2 years ago

There is no evidence that the FBI is politically biased.  The fact that they investigated a lifelong criminal like Trump doesnt prove squat. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.3    2 years ago
There is no evidence that the FBI is politically biased. 

jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.5  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.3    2 years ago
There is no evidence that the FBI is politically biased

You would have to live under a rock to believe that nonsense.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.5    2 years ago

Show us your proof, without using a nutjob far right source. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.7  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.6    2 years ago

Admittedly that is hard since the majority of media sources these days are left leaning to batshit crazy leftist loons.

But you’ll find out what the people think this November.    Since the mass media and folks like yourself are either too stupid and/or self absorbed to figure it out.

Then the insults of the folks who are not of like mind can really start in earnest again.    Haters gonna be hatin overtime then .....

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.2.8  Snuffy  replied to  Sparty On @5.2.7    2 years ago

Some people will refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit into their preconceived notions.  And there are plenty of left-leaning news sources that will confirm to those that there is no bias in the FBI.  But an honest review of actions undertaken by the FBI can definitely show bias so that even Senators are questioning the bias.  But it does no good to provide any links as they will reject anything that doesn't conform to their own bias (which they also refuse to admit).

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.9  Sparty On  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.8    2 years ago

The last three or so decades have not been the best for the feebies.

They really need a detailed top to bottom review.    Hopefully the Olympic gymnasts lawsuit gets that ball rolling.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.10  Ender  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.8    2 years ago

Haha  An op ed from WSJ and letters from Grassley if proof of bias?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.2.11  Snuffy  replied to  Ender @5.2.10    2 years ago

Do you deny that there is evidence of bias from some within the FBI and that some actions undertaken by members of the FBI have shown a political bias?

 
 
 
Gazoo
Junior Silent
5.2.12  Gazoo  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.8    2 years ago

Some people will refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit into their preconceived notions.”

lol, that didn’t take long.jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png jrSmiley_115_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.13  Ender  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.11    2 years ago

It is an agency staffed with people. Tell me one agency in the whole of the country where you could not find people with a bias opinion.

Does not mean the agency itself is a completely bias operation.

But if you all want to get rid of the agency, good luck.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
5.2.14  Snuffy  replied to  Ender @5.2.13    2 years ago
But if you all want to get rid of the agency, good luck.

So once again you lump everybody into the same bucket rather than respond to what the fuck was written that you are responding to.  Show me where I said I wanted to disband the FBI.

I guess I should ask myself why I bother to try to have a conversation.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Ender  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.14    2 years ago

Considering what this seed is about and wants, not hard to make connections.

I also did respond to what you said you just chose to ignore that and attack one part.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @5.2.8    2 years ago

You are giving me Charles Grassley  and a letter to the editor at the WSJ as proof the FBI is biased. Really?  The Wall St Journal bit is based on the fact that the FBI took the Steele Dossier info seriously and had a mistake made asking for a FISA order to surveil carter Page.  Neither of those things point to political bias. 

Did the FBI not trust Trump? I assume not. What sane person would? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.17  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2    2 years ago

Given all that is known about Trump at this point, a rational mind would be inclined to think that Trump has engaged in wrongdoing.   What is amazing is that anyone at this point thinks Trump has done no wrong.

It is a fact that Trump has not been found legally guilty of anything because we have yet to have a trial.    So if you want to claim that Trump has not been found guilty, you are on the right side of truth.

But that is where it ends.

Outside of formal, legal determinations, it takes a great deal of 'kidding oneself' to consider all that we know of Trump and not be persuaded that Trump has engaged in unethical practices and arguably unconstitutional and/or criminal acts.   After all, how can anyone fail to see that attempting to suborn your V.P. to engage in an unconstitutional act by tabling certified results from select states or attempting to coerce the AZ Speaker to submit alternate electors or coerce/threaten GA SoS to 'find 11,000 votes', (and much more) is wrong?

Pretending that Trump has done no wrong and that all of the facts on the table are nothing but a witch hunt on an individual who has done no wrong is beyond naïve — it is irrational.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.18  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.17    2 years ago

You are risking belaboring the obvious to no discernible effect on the target listener. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.19  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.18    2 years ago

Absolutely true.   I have no expectation that this will get through to extant Trump supporters;  that, IMO, is well past a lost cause.   

Rather, I am illustrating the absurdity of continually defending Trump.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.22  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.6    2 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.23  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.17    2 years ago
a rational mind would be inclined to think that Trump has engaged in wrongdoing.
It is a fact that Trump has not been found legally guilty of anything because we have yet to have a trial.

only a conspiracy theorist would come to that conclusion.  You seem to forget that there have been several investigations and none have produced any evidence of this "wrong doing". 

So if you want to claim that Trump has not been found guilty, you are on the right side of truth.

That's the first thing you've said that was correct.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.24  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.23    2 years ago
only a conspiracy theorist would come to that conclusion.  You seem to forget that there have been several investigations and none have produced any evidence of this "wrong doing". 

That is ridiculous.   You have seen Trump in action and listened to his speeches, publicly, obviously, with his Big Lie campaign.   You were able to listen to the Raffensperger phone call, you have testimony from Raffensperger, Bowers, Barr, et. al. showing Trump's incessant attempts to steal the election through whatever means he and cohorts could dream up.   You have a tweet from Trump during the insurrection where he through Pence under the bus.   You have witnesses testifying that Trump was informed of the insurrection, pleaded to stop his supporters by his advisors, family and 'friends' and he refused to act until hours later.

The legal determination of guilty comes from a court of law.   Commonsense, normal rational thought is what would determine wrongdoing.   To not see the wrongdoing of Trump is not a credible claim;  to defend him at every turn is irrational.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.2.25  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.24    2 years ago

It's unbelievable how everyone who supports #45 is twisting themselves into knots how this legal search is all wrong and anything and everything he has done is not as serious as what is being done to him . . . .

Like this gem . . . I don't know if it's satire or real 

If you thought the Trump raid was a fiasco, turns out you were right

4bd132b4f0f02161064aee993f1b7a48
Phil Boas, Arizona Republic
Thu, August 11, 2022 at 7:13 PM

So they did blunder.

The Justice Department and FBI did not understand what they were doing when they ran 30 federal agents and technicians up the gut of Mar-a-Lago Club and into the living quarters of a former president of the United States.

They didn’t understand what was instantly obvious to longtime ABC and CBS newsman Jeff Greenfield – that they had engineered a   “100 Megaton event.”

We know they blundered not from Attorney General Merrick Garland, who has gone into seclusion on this issue.

We know it not from FBI Director Christopher Wray, whose only comments were to decry the death threats against his agents.

No, we had to divine that something was wrong when Justice didn’t have the brass to stand up and explain why it demolished 246 years of precedent and allowed government agents to rifle through the drawers of a former American president.

'Manure mongers' speak up about the Trump raid

Instead of its leaders taking the podium, the administration schlepped out a couple of anonymous government employees with shovels and wheelbarrows to clean up the mess.

In the days of horse and buggy, they called these guys   “manure mongers.”

Newsweek called them “two senior government officials” with “direct knowledge of the FBI’s deliberations.”

Another view:   AG Garland owns the FBI raid. Your move, Trump

One is “a senior Justice Department official who is a 30-year veteran of the FBI.”

We must assume both sources were speaking on authorization of their superiors, otherwise U.S. intelligence has a very leaky ship – a problem perhaps more serious than Donald Trump’s classified memos.

Anonymous sources offered critical facts

Their interview with   veteran Newsweek reporter William M. Arkin , who has long covered national security issues, established some important facts:

1)   This was about paper.

The FBI search warrant was meant to recover classified documents. This was not about something more weighty, such as the Jan. 6 investigation,   Newsweek reported .

2)   They had an inside source.

The two Justice officials said agents had information from an “FBI confidential human source, one who was able to identify what classified documents former President Trump was still hiding and even the location of those documents,” the news magazine reported.

3)   There were no politics.

“Both senior government officials say the raid was scheduled with no political motive, the FBI solely intent on recovering highly classified documents that were illegally removed from the White House,” Newsweek reported.

4)   The attorney general didn’t know.

“(Merrick) Garland had no prior knowledge of the date and time of the specific raid, nor was he asked to approve it. ‘I know it’s hard for people to believe,’ says the official, ‘but this was a matter for the U.S. Attorney and the FBI,’ ” according to the magazine’s report.

Garland was briefed regularly on the Records Act investigation but wasn’t alerted when the raid went down, the official told Newsweek.   (More on that in an update below.)

5)   The FBI director was responsible.

Christopher Wray gave the thumbs-up to conduct the raid, the sources told Newsweek.

6)   They did not anticipate the blowback.

“‘It is really the best and the worst of the bureaucracy in action,’ the official says. ‘They wanted to punctuate the fact that this was a routine law enforcement action, stripped of any political overtones, and yet [they] got exactly the opposite.’ ”

Despite much speculation:   Here's what we know about the Mar-a-Lago raid

The two sources, while defending the court-ordered search, were critical of federal law enforcement.

The raid of Trump’s home was “deliberately timed to occur when the president was away,” the sources told Newsweek. “FBI decision-makers in Washington and Miami thought that denying the former president a photo opportunity or a platform from which to grandstand (or to attempt to thwart the raid) would lower the profile of the event.”

Instead, the American right erupted.

“What a spectacular backfire,” the Justice official told Newsweek. “... It really is a case of the Bureau misreading the impact.”

2 words for this thinking: 'Massive screw-up'

Some legal minds have questioned why the FBI didn’t simply issue a subpoena to force Trump’s hand on classified information instead of raiding his home.

Could they have obtained the records in less intrusive ways?

As the Newsweek sources make clear they didn’t think law enforcement searching the home of a former president for the first time in U.S. history would be a big deal.

There are words to describe that kind of thinking: “Massive screwup.”

More from Boas:   FBI raid on Trump's home could tear America apart

Someone in the U.S. administration should be taking scalps at the FBI and Justice Department for running such a highly sensitive and consequential law-enforcement operation without a heads-up to the attorney general and the president of the United States.

The FBI may have had the court authority to do what it did, but that search was a provocative act in a country on the razor’s edge. American polarization is at a high point in our lifetime.

Henry Kissinger, who served as Richard Nixon’s secretary of state, told a British newspaper recently that today’s   America is “infinitely more” divided   than the Vietnam era. “The unstated but very real debate in America right now is about whether the basic values of America have been valid.”

Trump was on the ropes. FBI gave him a lifeline

To fail to understand this moment, to return meekly with anonymous sources to admit you screwed up roars incompetence to your fellow Americans and weakness to global adversaries.

The Trump raid is now a wall-to-wall political disaster for the United States ,” wrote Wall Street Journal columnist Daniel Henninger, a careful chronicler of American politics.

“Imagine what we would think of the stability of China or Russia if events like this were happening to Xi Jinping or Vladimir Putin. That is how they see us – destabilized and vulnerable. Our opponents are redoing their global risk-reward ratios.”

Many of us on the right were watching better leaders emerge in the Republican Party who could eventually replace Trump as GOP standard-bearer in 2024.

That’s all over, a Republican strategist who advises a Trump rival told Politico this week. The   FBI raid has “completely handed (Trump) a lifeline.”

“Unbelievable,” he said. “It put everybody in the wagon for Trump again. It’s just taken the wind out of everybody’s sails.”

As chaotic as the Trump presidency was, a second Trump term would be nothing like the first, wrote Henninger. “Trump II would be a four-year civil war.”

We are now three days and counting past the raid on Mar-a-Lago and we have still not heard from the president, the attorney general and the FBI director.

And each day the question grows louder.

Is anybody in charge here?

UPDATE:   Merrick Garland gave a brief statement   on Aug. 11 affirming no one is above the law and adding, “I personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant in this matter.”

He defended Justice Department employees against recent criticism. “I will not stand by silently while their integrity is unfairly attacked.”

He took no questions but said he would provide more information “at the appropriate time” and in “the appropriate way.”

For Garland, this was an important step to break the silence and start rebuilding confidence in the Justice Department and the FBI.

But the damage is real.

Phil Boas is an editorial columnist for The Arizona Republic. Email him at   phil.boas@arizonarepublic.com .

This article originally appeared on Arizona Republic:   FBI raid on Trump's home, in 2 words: 'Massive screwup'

We're fucked.   

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
5.2.26  Tessylo  replied to  dennis smith @5.2.21    2 years ago
Removed for context

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Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.27  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.24    2 years ago
You have seen Trump in action and listened to his speeches, publicly, obviously, with his Big Lie campaign.

The "BiG Lie".  Which one are you referring to?  The one that sparked off the "Meuller Investigation" in 2016 or the other fabrication that sparked off the Partisan Talk Show?

The legal determination of guilty comes from a court of law.

And so far there hasn't been enough evidence to take anybody to court to determine guilt.  But don't let that stop your conspiracy theories.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.28  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.27    2 years ago
The "BiG Lie".  Which one are you referring to? 

Faux obtuseness and deflection.

And so far there hasn't been enough evidence to take anybody to court to determine guilt.

Again with the faux obtuseness.   The whole point of my post was to distinguish legal guilt from observed wrong-doing.   And here you are running back to legal guilt and flat out ignoring all wrong-doing.   

The legal determination of guilt comes from a court of law.   Commonsense, normal rational thought is what would determine wrong-doing.   To not see the wrong-doing of Trump is not a credible claim;  to defend him at every turn is irrational.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.29  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.28    2 years ago
The "BiG Lie".  Which one are you referring to? 
Faux obtuseness and deflection.

Closer to your willfull ignorance.  Either way, it's wasted time and taxpayer money.  Not to mention neither has accomplished a goddamn thing.

The legal determination of guilt comes from a court of law.  

And so far there hasn't been enough evidence to take anybody to court to determine guilt.  But don't let that stop your conspiracy theories.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.30  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.29    2 years ago
Closer to your willfull ignorance.

Willful ignorance = intentionally ignoring facts.   What facts am I intentionally ignoring?   I have stated clearly that Trump has not been found guilty in a court of law.   So explain yourself.

But don't let that stop your conspiracy theories.

What conspiracy theory?    Be specific.   It is not a conspiracy theory, for example, to note the wrong-doing of Trump attempting to suborn his V.P. Pence to table certified election results.   It is not conspiracy theory to note that it was wrong for Trump to lie about the election and work up his supporters.   If is not conspiracy theory to note that Trump was wrong to try to coerce Speaker Bowers to submit an alternate set of fake electors or to coerce SoS Raffensperger to find votes for him.   It is not conspiracy theory to note that Trump publicly, via tweet, throwing Pence under the bus in the middle of the insurrection is wrong.

Conspiracy theory = " belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event. "

Buy a vowel.

Defending Trump at every turn is irrational.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.31  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.30    2 years ago
Willful ignorance = intentionally ignoring facts.

Now you are getting it.  Now you just have to work on paying attention to details

Conspiracy theory   = "   belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.  " Buy a vowel.

I see you figured out how to look up definitions.  Good Job!!!!  Next week we'll work on applying those definitions in coherent sentences.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.2.32  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @5.2.31    2 years ago

In response to my challenges you prove that you have nothing.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Professor Expert
5.2.33  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @5.2.32    2 years ago

What challenge?  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @5    2 years ago

This has nothing to do with Trump's guilt or innocence

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  author  Vic Eldred    2 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    2 years ago

LOL

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7  Kavika     2 years ago

I'm sure that John Bolton is very thankful to Director Wray and the FBI for helping keeping him alive. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @7    2 years ago

And we therefore should overlook the FBI going rogue?

Can you defend any of the things the FBI did, which I have listed?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    2 years ago
And we therefore should overlook the FBI going rogue?

Only in your opinion.

Can you defend any of the things the FBI did, which I have listed?

I have no intention of defending any of that since it's at this point BS. 

Oh, BTW it's not only Bolton but another high-ranking official that had a murder for hire about to be put on him/her. A million dollars and Bolton was only a measly $300,000. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    2 years ago
Only in your opinion.

In the opinion of many.


I have no intention of defending any of that since it's at this point BS. 

You have no intention of defending it because you can't, not even Chris Wray can defend it.


Oh, BTW it's not only Bolton but another high-ranking official that had a murder for hire about to be put on him/her. A million dollars and Bolton was only a measly $300,000. 

So what?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    2 years ago
In the opinion of many.

Probably not anyone that matters. 

You have no intention of defending it because you can't, not even Chris Wray can defend it.

Refer to my original answer. 

So what?

The best response would come from Bolton and the other officials that are alive today because of the FBI....Perhaps you could send Bolton an email asking that question.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @7.1.3    2 years ago
Probably not anyone that matters.

You mean the left is in control?  That will change next year.


Refer to my original answer.

I got it right.


The best response would come from Bolton and the other officials that are alive today because of the FBI....Perhaps you could send Bolton an email asking that question.

The fact that the lower ranks are functioning has nothing to to with the rogue elements running the agency.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.4    2 years ago
You mean the left is in control?  That will change next year.

Which has nothing to do with my comment. 

I got it right.

In your opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

The fact that the lower ranks are functioning has nothing to to with the rogue elements running the agency.

Long-term action with an enemy alien country against top officials in the US and you don't think that the highest levels of the FBI was involved...LMAO

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kavika @7.1.5    2 years ago
Long-term action with an enemy alien country against top officials in the US and you don't think that the highest levels of the FBI was involved...LMAO

The fact that certain things are done right doesn't cancel out the stuff they have pulled at the top level. Take a look at the last 4 Directors. You can't seem to defend the shit they pulled so you are doing an end around telling us about how good the rank & file are.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
7.1.7  Split Personality  replied to  Kavika @7.1.1    2 years ago
 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.8  Kavika   replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.6    2 years ago
Take a look at the last 4 Directors. You can't seem to defend the shit they pulled so you are doing an end around telling us about how good the rank & file are.

If you really want to look at BS by directors you go all the way back to J. Edgar. I have no intention of defending what has not been charged as a crime, let me know when it has. 

No end run, I explained it to you and you might want to read the report from the DOJ. If you don't think that the highest level of the FBI was involved with the possible assassination of high-ranking US officials then you certainly can rest easy in your world.

There are no links in your article so what we have is your opinion on what you think transpired. Carry on with the bias speculation.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.1.9  Kavika   replied to  Split Personality @7.1.7    2 years ago
$2 Million a month to protect Pompeo too.

According to the author, it was only the rank and file of the FBI that new what was happening with the Iran ''murder for hire'' of US officials.

The article mentioned $1 million being offered for another assassination without naming the person and it was fairly easy to figure out who it was and Pompeo was person I figured it was.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.10  devangelical  replied to  Split Personality @7.1.7    2 years ago

what a waste of taxpayer money. he's not on the clock anymore, let him foot the bill...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.11    2 years ago

They were talking about Pompeo and not Trump.   Pompeo was never PotUS (or first Lady).

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.13    2 years ago

Hey Dennis, did you not notice that your comment at 7.1.11 replied to 7.1.10 and not 5.2.28 ?    Context is absolutely essential in communication.   Hello?   If you want to make a comment regarding 5.2.28 then REPLY to that comment and not to 7.1.10 .

I never said Pompeo was a Potus nor a first lady.

Brilliant ' rebuttal '.  800

You compared the security of Obama and Clinton (Hillary) who both have lifetime SS as PotUS and First Lady, respectively, to the security of Pompeo.   Your comparison was categorically flawed.   And your ' rebuttal ' was that you never claimed Pompeo was a PotUS or a first lady.   

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.15    2 years ago

Confused gibberish.   

A pathetic attempt at a smokescreen for failing to recognize that presidents and first ladies (e.g. Obama, Clinton) have SS for life and SsoS (e.g. Pompeo) do not (normally stops about 18 months after leaving office).   

Your comparison remains fundamentally wrong and your pathetic smoke screen attempt is not going to help.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.17    2 years ago

That is probably the best Pee-Wee-Herman-esque comment I have seen in a while.

Hint: the  "I know you are but what am I" argument structure is a loser.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
7.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.19    2 years ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1.21  bugsy  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.19    2 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Thomas
Senior Guide
8  Thomas    2 years ago

From your opinion piece:

At this point I am afraid that the firing of Wray and a house cleaning at the FBI will not be enough. It is beyond redemption. It must be abolished.

I don't know if any agency can be trusted with that much power ever again.

And where do you then put the various functions that the FBI now manages?

 
 

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