A Sadistic Immigration Stunt

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  hallux  •  2 weeks ago  •  133 comments

By:   Tom Nichols - The Atlantic

A Sadistic Immigration Stunt

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Ron DeSantis’s hideous political stunt is a reminder that the GOP’s policies are no longer about achieving results, but gratifying the basest impulses of MAGA voters.

Intention Matters

I am from Massachusetts, yet I have never been to Martha’s Vineyard. I now live in coastal Rhode Island, less than a hundred miles from the Vineyard, so Ron DeSantis’s idiotic and cruel attempt to dump human beings on the island during the off-season is something of a local story for me—but one that carries an important national lesson.

The Florida governor’s cartoonish assumption, apparently, was that liberal Bay Staters are just as racist as the Republican MAGA-base voters he’s trying to woo, and that they would prove it by reacting with outrage when a bunch of Latin Americans showed up on their doorstep. (He even sent a videographer, in the hopes of capturing the Vineyarders getting the vapors.) This bizarre miscalculation probably won’t help DeSantis much. As the journalist Josh Marshall said   this morning , in politics, “weird can sometimes be worse than wrong.” In any case, the show was a fizzle: The locals provided the migrants with food and shelter, and sent students from an AP Spanish class at the local high school as translators.

I’m proud of my fellow New Englanders for their reaction to DeSantis’s inane showboating. And yet, I consider myself an immigration hawk. I am the grandson of immigrants on both sides of my family, and I cherish and celebrate immigration—but I also believe in law and order. I was a young conservative working in Washington, and I winced when Ronald Reagan signed the   Simpson-Mazzoli Act , the amnesty of 1986 that was supposed to solve much of our immigration problem. I gritted my teeth during the Obama administration, when what seemed to me to be   another amnesty   loomed.

(I am also one of those people who finds the term “undocumented immigrant” Orwellian nonsense. It is a phrase meant to command empathy by implying that a person who has broken American law merely lacks documents. We can welcome people at the border, we can determine who needs asylum, we can fight human trafficking—and we can do all of those things without mangling language. But that’s an argument for another day.)

At times, my frustration with illegal immigration led me to embrace some pretty hardline views, and I would even say that by the early 2000s, I was radicalized on the issue. As my colleague David Frum   wrote   back in 2019:

"Demagogues don’t rise by talking about irrelevant issues. Demagogues rise by talking about issues that matter to people, and that more conventional leaders appear unwilling or unable to address: unemployment in the 1930s, crime in the 1960s, mass immigration now."

I’m still pretty vehement about border security: In 2019, I was yelling at the television during the Democratic presidential primary debates when Julián Castro  talked about decriminalizing  unauthorized border crossings, apoplectic at the idea that nations can’t make laws about their own borders. I guess this makes me today something like a 1996 Democrat, back  when the party platform said , “We must remain a nation of laws. We cannot tolerate illegal immigration and we must stop it … Washington talked tough but failed to act. In 1992, our borders might as well not have existed.”

But DeSantis and Donald Trump have talked me out of supporting tougher policies. Why? Because intentions matter. A policy implemented by sadists is not a policy. It is cheap political gratification masquerading as policy, and it will always do more harm than good.

Trump’s ghastly child-separation debacle is a case study in hateful policy. The Trump administration, when it came into office in 2017, locked on to a truth about illegal immigration: It is difficult, for many reasons, to send families with babies and children back to their home countries. The children are blameless, even if the traffickers who brought them and their parents to America are not.

Previous administrations held and then deported many of these people. But as my colleague Caitlin Dickerson   showed in great detail , the Trump administration was populated by a menagerie of immoral and cowardly appointees who decided to stop illegal immigration by separating children from parents, intentionally inflicting pain on parents and kids   as a deterrent in itself . This policy was not only brutal but executed with maximum incompetence, with no real plan for ever reuniting these families.

And here we are again. Who came up with the idea of flying immigrants around the country? Was this motivated by some deep thinking in Tallahassee about our immigration problems? Or was it because some Fox host might have bloviated about owning the libs by sending immigrants to Martha’s Vineyard?

As it turns out, Fox’s chief bloviator, Tucker Carlson,   suggested this very idea   in July. DeSantis, one of the thirstiest politicians in America, clearly spotted an opportunity, so the taxpayers of Florida ended up paying to send people—some of whom seem to be asylum-seekers we   should   be welcoming—from Texas to Massachusetts.   According to an immigration lawyer   assisting with the migrants’ cases, someone (I assume people working with DeSantis or Texas Governor Greg Abbott) appears to have   lied to the group of some 50 people , coaxing them to board the planes by saying they would get a “surprise,” and that jobs and homes awaited them—a particularly nasty touch in an already vomitous business.

I am against illegal immigration. But I am against the intentional tormenting of other human beings—especially children—even more. If my choice is the current mess or an immigration system run by ruthless opportunists such as Ron DeSantis—a man dancing on a chain while Tucker Carlson cranks the racist street organ—it’s not even close: I’ll stick with what we have. And I will never support anything, in any way, that runs the risk of handing power to people like DeSantis or his MAGA base.


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Hallux
Junior Principal
1  seeder  Hallux    2 weeks ago

Ah DeSantis, the USA's very own Bolsonaro.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Hallux @1    2 weeks ago

The left's hypocrisy is finally being exposed for all to see.

Their response to their being outed....duck,cover, and deflect, is highly amusing.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

thanks for the visual perspective from trump's lower digestive tract.

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
1.1.2  seeder  Hallux  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

Hypocrisy cares not who it nests within, it is an opportunist that deceives you into thinking it resides in your neighbor's heart and therefore not your own.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

Don't be silly.....liberal largesse will provide food, housing, healthcare,  and jobs to these grateful migrants. Isn't this what the left wants? Heck, it might even earn them some future votes! This gift to Dem strongholds wasn't satanic, it was heroic genius on DeSantis's part! Here's an even better idea.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.3    2 weeks ago
.liberal largesse will provide food, housing, healthcare,  and jobs to these grateful migrants

That largesse  from one of the richest areas of the country, lasted less than 48 hours.

I guess "sanctuary" means only until we can find busses. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  Sean Treacy @1.1.4    2 weeks ago

DeSantis is doubling down on the virtue signalers . I think he's making a few attention getting policy statements before tossing his hat in the ring.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/saraharnold/2022/09/16/desantis-puts-democrats-in-their-place-after-they-attack-him-for-shipping-illegals-to-other-states-n2613184?utm_campaign=rightrailsticky3

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    2 weeks ago

An object lesson in NIMBY ..... liberal style.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.7  cjcold  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

Townhall is a Russian bot site. Owned and operated by the Kremlin.

As a right-wing Trump fan I figured that you would know that.

Weird how many anti commie red-necks are now being used by commies.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.1.7    2 weeks ago
Townhall is a Russian bot site. Owned and operated by the Kremlin.

A blatant, deliberate lie.

Please explain how a publicly traded company is now owned and operated by the Kremlin.

I have my popcorn, this should be FANTASTICAL to hear this tale!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @1.1.7    2 weeks ago
Weird how many anti commie red-necks are now being used by commies.

What is weird is people actually believing the crap you post, much of it is just made up crap you pulled from the internet somewhere or someone spoon-fed you.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
2  Gazoo    2 weeks ago

Who came up with the idea of flying immigrants around the country?”

Biden.

I am against illegal immigration. But I am against the intentional tormenting of other human beings—especially children—even more.”

It seems those poor tormented people feel a bit different about desantis sending them to Martha's vineyard.

The real fools are tom nichols and those nimby mfers that have declared their cities a safe haven for illegals while supporting biden’s border policy then bitch, piss, and moan when a few are sent to their cities. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
2.1  cjcold  replied to  Gazoo @2    2 weeks ago

Thankfully the rich white folk at MV have taken these republican pawns into their homes.

That's what liberals tend to do.

What a backfire for DeSantis!

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
2.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  cjcold @2.1    2 weeks ago
ully the rich white folk at MV have taken these republican pawns into their homes.

Buddy, are you gonna be shocked when you find out they declared a humanitarian disaster over 50 immigrants,  called in the national guard and bussed them off the island in less than 2 days. 

That's what liberals tend to do.

I couldn't agree more.  Posture and pose about their tolerance and generosity and then push the problem onto others  to deal with. 

What a backfire for DeSantis!

I think you mean what a backfire this post was for cjcold.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
PhD Principal
2.1.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  cjcold @2.1    2 weeks ago
Thankfully the rich white folk at MV have taken these republican pawns into their homes.

Bullshit. They shipped them off to Joint Base Cape Cod 55 miles away.................

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @2.1    2 weeks ago
Thankfully the rich white folk at MV have taken these republican pawns into their homes.

They were being housed in a church, not rich white Democrats' homes.

The liberals called out the National Guard to deal with 50 migrants who were promptly shipped off to Cape Cod.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
2.1.4  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.3    2 weeks ago
The liberals called out the National Guard to deal with 50 migrants who were promptly shipped off to Cape Cod.

Only a ..... "Libturd" ............. LMAO ! ............. could get away with calling in the "National Guard" and no one on their side would Bitch, Moan, Complain and call for an investigation !

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
3  Jack_TX    2 weeks ago

I don't know what needs to be done to get the attention of northern liberals and the people they elect, but the idea that the same four states should just continue to bear the infrastructure burden decade after decade is bullshit straight out of Hunger Games.

Enjoy your new neighbors.  They're actually great people, usually.  You'll probably wanna start building schools and stuff, though.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
4  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

These people came from Venezuela.  They are fleeing from an authoritarian socialist state.  DeathSantis is using them as props in his political stunt.  That ought to go over really well with the Cuban immigrants living in Florida, who usually vote Republican.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1  bugsy  replied to  Gsquared @4    2 weeks ago
They are fleeing from an authoritarian socialist state.

Then they should have applied for asylum to the US in the first safe country they came to, in this case Colombia, as US law states.

Bypassing that requirement and coming straight here shows they have no intention of going through the process legally.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
4.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  bugsy @4.1    2 weeks ago

State the name and immigration status of each person DeathSantis sent to Martha's Vineyard who you allege does not have legal asylum status.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
4.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  bugsy @4.1    2 weeks ago

While I would love to agree with you, our stupid immigration laws actually require an anyone applying for asylum to present themselves at a legal point of entry to the US. That is right; our moronic law actually requires them to be here. Don't expect Democrats to let anyone fix that law either.

You Cannot Apply for Asylum at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate

Asylum is a form of legal protection available to certain people who cannot or would not feel safe if they tried to live in their home country, because of past persecution or the danger of future persecution based on their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

Unfortunately, U.S. embassies and consulates cannot process requests for this form of protection. That's because, under U.S. law, asylum seekers can apply only if they are physically present in the United States (or at least at a U.S. border or other point of entry).

There is a common misconception that U.S. embassies and consulates are basically the same as U.S. soil. It is true that international law protects national embassies and consulates from being destroyed, entered, or searched (without permission) by the government of the country where they are located (the host country).

However, this does not give those embassies or consulates the full status of being part of their home nation's territory. Therefore, U.S. law does not consider asylum seekers at U.S. embassies and consulates to be "physically present in the United States" (or at a U.S. border or point of entry).

However, this does not mean that embassy personnel cannot offer any help at all to people who are in danger and seek their protection. In extreme or exceptional circumstances, U.S. embassies and consulates can offer alternative forms of protection, including (in most countries) temporary refuge, a referral to the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program, or a request for parole to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Trump made asylum seekers wait in Mexico until their court dates. We all know what Brandon thinks about anything Trump did; even if it worked. A court ruled against Brandon and said he had to enforce remain in Mexico. We can all see the results of that. Illegal immigrants still streaming across the border; and Brandon state hopping them as fast as he can.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
4.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Gsquared @4    2 weeks ago
"That ought to go over really well with the Cuban immigrants living in Florida, who usually vote Republican."

I think they will applaud his actions

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
4.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Greg Jones @4.2    2 weeks ago
I think they will applaud his actions

Some refuse to believe that many immigrants, especially the ones who came here and stayed here legally, are not fond of open borders and illegal immigration.

Democrats believe it at their own political peril.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5  Ronin2    2 weeks ago
was that liberal Bay Staters are just as racist as the Republican MAGA-base voters he’s trying to woo, and that they would prove it by reacting with outrage when a bunch of Latin Americans showed up on their doorstep. (He even sent a videographer, in the hopes of capturing the Vineyarders getting the vapors.) This bizarre miscalculation probably won’t help DeSantis much. As the journalist Josh Marshall said   this morning , in politics, “weird can sometimes be worse than wrong.” In any case, the show was a fizzle: The locals provided the migrants with food and shelter, and sent students from an AP Spanish class at the local high school as translators.

When in doubt the left screams racist loud and long. The only racists here are the virtue signaling Democrats that couldn't handle a damn busload of 50 illegal immigrants; while supposedly being a sanctuary city.

The illegals that were transported to Martha's Vineyard were not treated with respect. They were moved out at fast as the virtue signalling white elitist liberal racists could manage. Can't have those brown skinned illegals throwing off the racial dynamics.

The roughly 50 Venezuelan migrants who were flown to Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, on Wednesday were then transported to Cape Cod on Friday, where they will have access to food, shelter and emergency services, Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker’s office said. The migrants were due to be brought to an emergency shelter at Joint Base Cape Cod in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, which served as an alternative medical care site during the Covid-19 pandemic, and as a shelter for displaced Louisiana residents in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Just like the so call sanctuary city in Chicago did with the illegals shipped to them; by sending them to a Republican run suburb. Nothing is beneath the racist, virtue signalling, left.

Democratic  Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot sparked outrage after deciding to move 64 migrants on a bussed to the Windy City to a neighboring Republican suburb. 

On Wednesday, 147 migrants were arrived in Chicago, city officials told Fox 32

Hours later, 64 of them were taken to a Hampton Inn hotel in Burr Ridge - 20 miles southwest from downtown - where they will be housed for at least the next 30 days.

Republican Mayor of Burr Ridge, Gary Grasso, directed his anger at Lightfoot and Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker for using the migrants as 'political pawns.'

He said: 'We are very unhappy that nobody from the city, from the state called and told me' 

Most of the migrants, who are refugees, come from South American countries, including Peru and Colombia. 

'As is my understanding, this hotel, about a year ago, when refugees came in from Afghanistan , apparently accepted several either through faith-based or charitable organizations, but now the state assumes they can just send migrants…,' Grasso told Fox 32. 

'This isn't about them, the migrants are fine, they're being used as political pawns by the governor and mayor,' he added.

[ deleted ]

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1  devangelical  replied to  Ronin2 @5    2 weeks ago

[Deleted] they all weren't illegal immigrants. I like how republicans just keep shooting themselves on the feet on the way to the midterms. go ahead and carve off a big percentage of that latino vote you were counting on. fucking political kamikazes.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
5.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  devangelical @5.1    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5.1.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  devangelical @5.1    2 weeks ago

I like how republicans just keep shooting themselves on the feet on the way to the midterms. go ahead and carve off a big percentage of that latino vote you were counting on. fucking political kamikazes.

It’s the Trump play book.  Campaign like a thoughtless moron, lose the election because of it, then claim they lost because the election was rigged.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
5.1.3  bugsy  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @5.1.2    2 weeks ago

The vast majority of Hispanic CITIZENS of this country, many of which vote Republican, especially Cuban Americans in Florida, are highly against the ILLEGALS that are pouring across the border.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
5.1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  bugsy @5.1.3    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
6  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

DeSantis really shook the left by exposing their hypocrisy.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
7  Texan1211    2 weeks ago

Now, even a Democrat is saying Harris was less than truthful.

What kind of freaking moron believes that the border is secure??

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
7.1  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @7    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
8  Revillug    2 weeks ago

It's human trafficking.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1  Texan1211  replied to  Revillug @8    2 weeks ago

You would be well served to look up the definition before branding others with word you don't use correctly.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
9  Kavika     2 weeks ago

DeSantis moved them from Texas to MA. Why in the world if Florida has a illegal problem wouldn't you move them from Florida to MA?

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
9.1  Revillug  replied to  Kavika @9    2 weeks ago

Because maybe someone in Florida would take him to court?

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
10  squiggy    2 weeks ago

“This bizarre miscalculation probably won’t help DeSantis much.”

The Massachusetts Association of Electric and Immigration Nimbys won’t vote conservative? Shocking.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1  JBB  replied to  squiggy @10    2 weeks ago

Cubans in Florida may be sympathetic to refugees from Venezuela.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.1  Kavika   replied to  JBB @10.1    2 weeks ago

 Venezuelan groups in Florida are protesting DeSantis's move. Venezuelans are one of fastest-growing Hispanic groups in Florida. 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.2  JBB  replied to  Kavika @10.1.1    2 weeks ago

If Cuban refugees seeking asylum from Cuban communism were welcomed in Florida yet Venezuelans doing the same are used as political pawns then that seems hypocritical. Because it is!

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.3  Kavika   replied to  JBB @10.1.2    2 weeks ago

This is where it is going to get interesting...Record number of Cubans are fleeing Cuba and crossing the US/Mexican border.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.4  JBB  replied to  Kavika @10.1.3    2 weeks ago

Cubans, a reliable GOP voting block in Florida and the only group of Hispanic refugees who vote Republican, will recognize this too...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
10.1.5  bugsy  replied to  Kavika @10.1.3    2 weeks ago
This is where it is going to get interesting.

Not really. Cubans know that if they are intercepted trying to come here by boat, they will be turned around and sent back, where as if they come across by simply walking across the border, they will be welcomed here with open arms by the Biden admin.

Much safer to walk.

Cuban Americans that are here legally and/or are citizens are highly against these people coming here.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.6  Kavika   replied to  bugsy @10.1.5    2 weeks ago
Cuban Americans that are here legally and/or are citizens are highly against these people coming here.

Well, my Cuban friends see it a bit differently than your comment.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10.1.7  JBB  replied to  bugsy @10.1.5    2 weeks ago

Should Venezuelans seeking refuge from a cruel oppressive authoritarian regime be denied and deported unlike all the Cubans who have been historically welcomed by Floridians?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
10.1.8  bugsy  replied to  Kavika @10.1.6    2 weeks ago
Well, my Cuban friends see it a bit differently than your comme

Didn't say all of them, did I?

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10.1.9  Kavika   replied to  bugsy @10.1.8    2 weeks ago
Didn't say all of them, did I?

your comment

Cuban Americans that are here legally and/or are citizens are highly against these people coming here.

You did say  that are here legally and/or are citizens. So my comment was in response to that since the Cubans that are my friends are citizens which leaves your comment not quite accurate. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
10.1.10  bugsy  replied to  Kavika @10.1.9    2 weeks ago

I'm not going to argue the semantics of a sentence, but I didn't differentiate between all or some, so my comment can be construed as either.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
10.1.11  afrayedknot  replied to  bugsy @10.1.10    2 weeks ago

“…so my comment can be construed as either.”

Aligning perfectly with the governors’ intent.

If it plays with the base, so be it. Just when did plausible deniability become an acceptable form of governance? 

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
10.1.12  squiggy  replied to  afrayedknot @10.1.11    2 weeks ago
Aligning perfectly with the governors’ intent.

Y'all play the same game when a load of gate-crashers is cited - 'nobody can prove they haven't been vetted'. When the asylum denial rate in the last couple of years hovers in the 60%s, it's a good bet there are many freeloaders aboard.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
10.1.13  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @10.1.10    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
11  Drinker of the Wry    2 weeks ago

Thanks for the seed Hallux, much more balanced that what is usually seeded here.

Venezuela has many advantages, a coastline on the Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea, a land mass the size of France and Germany combined with only 33 million people.  Venezuela has a diverse geography of mountains, river basins, lakes, plains and jungle coupled with a diverse climate.  They have the worlds largest know oil reserves and significant deposits of iron ore, bauxite, gold and diamonds.  The country has significant hydroelectric potential and hardwood resources.  Agriculture exports include coffee, corn, rice and cattle. The country has a well developed transportation system to move goods.  

There is a decent education system and 905 of adult there a literate, in the US it's 79%.  From 1958 to early in this  century, Venezuela was more democratic, politically stable and prosperous than most other Latin American nations.  Two things changed that, ironically the first was illegal immigration of poor people from Columbia, Guyana and Brazil to the growing urban centers, and then the economic policies of Chavez and Maduro and their growing authoritarianism.

When we had what seemed to be an unresolvable issue with our government, we didn't run to other countries, we revolted from our British government.  Asylum law can only apply to these migrants if they can prove persecution due to their political opinions.  It's likely that they aren't escaping targeted persecution but rather they want stability and better a better economic potential for themselves and their families.  Understandable motivation and I guess they felt it easier than staying and changing their own country.  

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
12  Revillug    2 weeks ago

I would like to put this thought out there: our federal system of government fails on problems like refugees and homelessness because these are costs that are borne by the states that should really be nationalized costs.

Trying to put people on buses to other states to get rid of them is not a new tactic. But it is definitely an ugly tactic. 

Ultimately blame for this failure needs to be aimed at the level of government that can actually fix it.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
12.1  bugsy  replied to  Revillug @12    2 weeks ago
Ultimately blame for this failure needs to be aimed at the level of government that can actually fix it.

Exactly, but at this point, that level of government is not even trying, hence the illegal crisis we are in right now.

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
12.1.1  Revillug  replied to  bugsy @12.1    2 weeks ago

Maybe this would be a good time for people to bring that point up. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
12.1.2  bugsy  replied to  Revillug @12.1.1    2 weeks ago
Maybe this would be a good time for people to bring that point up. 

Conservatives, republicans, many independents and now, even some democrats, have been pointing out, for at least a year, the failure of the Biden administration, and especially the failure of Harris as the "border czar", concerning the crisis of illegal aliens coming into this country.

This is nothing new.

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
12.1.3  Revillug  replied to  bugsy @12.1.2    2 weeks ago

I think we are talking about different things. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
12.1.4  cjcold  replied to  bugsy @12.1    2 weeks ago

It's all about far right wing fascists. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  cjcold @12.1.4    2 weeks ago
It's all about far right wing fascists. 

Please look up the word 'fascist' so that you may begin to at long last use it correctly.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.1.6  Sparty On  replied to  Texan1211 @12.1.5    one week ago

The ironic thing here is we have people who are acting like fascists, calling other people fascists.

The triggered truly are one fucked up group of people.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Revillug @12    2 weeks ago
I would like to put this thought out there: our federal system of government fails on problems like refugees and homelessness because these are costs that are borne by the states that should really be nationalized costs.

Now we're talking.  It's a shame we have to bus immigrants across the country to get people to wake up to this obvious point.

Trying to put people on buses to other states to get rid of them is not a new tactic. But it is definitely an ugly tactic. 

I'm not sure it's any uglier than things like completely ignoring the problem and allowing millions of immigrants to be victimized, or screaming about one party putting "kids in cages" when those cages were actually built by the other party, or falsely accusing Border Patrol agents of using whips on migrants while attempting to stop them from committing a crime in broad daylight, or using a humanitarian crisis as a photo op to score drama queen points with your groovy left-wing constituents in Queens.

People have behaved pretty badly all the way around.  

The sad fact is that immigration as a problem is a vote winner.  Fighting about immigration is very good for politicians.  Solving the problem is not.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
12.2.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2    2 weeks ago

“The sad fact is that immigration as a problem is a vote winner.  Fighting about immigration is very good for politicians.  Solving the problem is not.”

And the human costs are but collateral damage. We should and must be better. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.1    2 weeks ago

Canada seems to have a very good system.

We follow a plan for immigration that helps distribute the benefits of immigration across the country. We select immigrants for their economic contribution, for their humanitarian needs and to reunite families.

Every year, we set targets for the number of immigrants we allow into the country for each immigration category. We give the public, provinces and territories, businesses and organizations that help immigrants settle in Canada an opportunity to let us know what they think about the targets before they are finalized.

In 2022, our target is 431,645 immigrants, to ensure Canada has the workers it needs to fill critical labour market gaps and support a strong economy.

Looking ahead, Canada plans to welcome 447,055 immigrants in 2023 and 451,000 immigrants in 2024. This works out to about 1% of our population.

Provinces and territories select a growing number of immigrants in the economic category, as well. Under the Canada-Quebec Accord, Quebec is responsible for selecting economic immigrants and some of the refugees that come to the province.

In recent years, Canada has changed the ratio of different kinds of immigrants to focus more on the economic category.

Our Express Entry system helps us manage how skilled immigrants come to Canada. Our sophisticated points system predicts how immigrants will do in Canada.

All the following details are considered in the points system:

  • language skills
  • education
  • work experience
  • a valid job offer
  • a nomination from a province or territory
Only candidates with the highest scores are sent invitations to apply to immigrate.
 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
12.2.3  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2.2    2 weeks ago

Two different circumstances. Those that approach our borders are seeking asylum…so easily forgotten and so easily dismissed. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.2.4  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.3    2 weeks ago
Two different circumstances. Those that approach our borders are seeking asylum…so easily forgotten and so easily dismissed. 

Some are seeking asylum.

Millions are not.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.5  Jack_TX  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2.2    2 weeks ago
Looking ahead, Canada plans to welcome 447,055 immigrants

The US limit is 675,000.

It's an idiotically small number.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
12.2.6  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @12.2.4    2 weeks ago

“Millions are not.”

Because we have not allowed the process of seeking asylum as a viable option. Leaving those most vulnerable always the most vulnerable…too often and most often as political fodder. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.7  Jack_TX  replied to  Texan1211 @12.2.4    2 weeks ago
Some are seeking asylum. Millions are not.

I confess I don't care. 

They come here looking for work, and we have tens of millions of unfilled jobs.  We're driving ourselves into a gigantic fucking recession in part because we can't fill open jobs and wage inflation has exploded. 

We have a million job seekers sneaking across the Rio Grande in the middle of the night because we're too stupid to check them in and give them a taxpayer ID.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.8  Jack_TX  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.6    2 weeks ago
Because we have not allowed the process of seeking asylum a viable option.

No.

They apply for asylum because we don't have a statutory quota on that, and they have a chance of it being granted.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
12.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.6    2 weeks ago
Because we have not allowed the process of seeking asylum a viable option. Leaving those most vulnerable most vulnerable…too often and most often as political fodder. 

Estimates of at least 10-25 million illegal aliens here say differently.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
12.2.10  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.7    2 weeks ago
I confess I don't care. 

Agree with you there. Imo neither side really does anything to help.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.5    2 weeks ago
The US limit is 675,000

Permanent visas, additionally 125,000 refugee spots in 2022 plus over 600,000 Guest Worker visas.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.3    2 weeks ago

No, Canada considers humanitarian criteria as well.  What is the rational for Venezuelans seeking asylum?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
12.2.13  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2.12    2 weeks ago

“What is the rational for Venezuelans seeking asylum?”

Give the Venezuelans (or anyone from anywhere) the venue to state their case. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
12.2.14  charger 383  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.5    2 weeks ago

That is too many

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.13    2 weeks ago
What is the rational for Venezuelans seeking asylum?”

They will have, I just haven’t thought of any and apparently neither have you.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.16  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.8    2 weeks ago

Some hospitals in Florida are now recruiting nurses in the Philippines. My old company is short of most positions, from highly skilled to lesser skilled. Dock workers, tow motor operators, etc and they can't fill the positions, and when it comes to IT people huge shortages.

The only reason that the US isn't in the same aging population as Western Europe, China, South Korea and Japan is because of immigration, legal and illegal. 

Get our fricking immigration laws up to date and make it work for the US. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Kavika @12.2.16    2 weeks ago
My old company is short of most positions, from highly skilled to lesser skilled.

I understand that the unemployment rate ticked up last month and it rose at a sharper pace for both Hispanic and Black workers.  Black workers also saw their labor force participation decline, and their employment-population ratio fall.

Maybe the immigrants entering the country have skill sets that our native born don't possess.  

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.18  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2.17    2 weeks ago
Maybe the immigrants entering the country have skill sets that our native born don't possess.  

It could be that there has been a rash of layoffs in the past two months or so and many of those have been service-type jobs so that may be part of the issue.

That is certainly possible, in checking the illegals and their education, they have become more and more educated over the past 10 years. An experience that I'm familiar with is two foreign students graduating from a US university and for them to stay in the US required additional information, processing etc etc. These two people, both with STEM degrees got fed up after a month and applied to Canada and were accepted within 60 days. Because of the extended time and additional requirements we lost two engineers. Fricking stupid.

My old company is recruiting in US territories, Guam, Samoa, and the northern Mariana Islands. We have operations in both Samoa and Guam which gives us a leg up since we are part of community.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.19  Jack_TX  replied to  charger 383 @12.2.14    2 weeks ago
That is too many

Why do you think so?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.20  Jack_TX  replied to  Kavika @12.2.16    2 weeks ago
Get our fricking immigration laws up to date and make it work for the US.

The immigration fight is worth more voted than the immigration fix.  

Our elected officials have every reason to not solve this problem.

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
12.2.21  Revillug  replied to  Kavika @12.2.16    2 weeks ago
Get our fricking immigration laws up to date and make it work for the US. 

Our approximately double digit inflation is in no small part due to a labor shortage, basically a shortage of immigrant labor.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
12.2.22  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Revillug @12.2.21    2 weeks ago

I understand that as July, there are 755,000 fewer people employed today than at the start of COVID even though we have an increase of 4.2 million people 16 and older.  

The employment-to-population ratio were the same as in February 2020, 3.3 million more people would be working today.  The Labor Participation rate further decreased last month,

We have a labor shortage because fewer Americans are working than before  Feb 20.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.23  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.20    2 weeks ago
Our elected officials have every reason to not solve this problem.

Sadly, this has been the case for decades.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.24  Kavika   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @12.2.22    2 weeks ago
We have a labor shortage because fewer Americans are working than before  Feb 20.

The question is why are there less. The pandemic changed the world and I do not think that it will go back to pre-pandemic levels. IMO, there are a few reasons, early retirement and people changing their lifestyle. A recent article on long haul Covid has kept thousands out of the workforce. In our city the power company has had employment ads for electricians for months and months with a starting salary of $73K per year. No takers.

The old rules don't apply any longer the nation and the world is changing. Our company is an international company with operations throughout Asia, the Pacific, Europe and South America and the same thing is happening in many of those areas as in the US. 

This is a link to another article that gives a different view on the labor shortage. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.25  Kavika   replied to  Revillug @12.2.21    2 weeks ago

It would seem that is true Revillug.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
12.2.26  charger 383  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.19    2 weeks ago

      

"That is too many

       Why do you think so?"

Because this country is over crowded.   

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.27  Sparty On  replied to  Kavika @12.2.24    2 weeks ago
In our city the power company has had employment ads for electricians for months and months with a starting salary of $73K per year. No takers.

Well, electricians need training before they can safely do that job.    A big part of that problem is society is trying to convince everyone to go to college and forget trade schools.

Less and less people are opting for those schools in our area so ...... less qualified electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc.    It’s an issue with wide ranging consequences.....

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
12.2.28  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sparty On @12.2.27    2 weeks ago

Well, electricians need training before they can safely do that job.    A big part of that problem is society is trying to convince everyone to go to college and forget trade schools.

Electricians are hiring immigrants and training them themselves to do incredible workmanship, so that they themselves can manage and expand their businesses.  I see it all the time where I’m from.  These guys do amazing work, and they are friendly as hell even if they can barely speak the language.  I’ll take one of them over a surly American nickel and dimer any day.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.29  Kavika   replied to  Sparty On @12.2.27    2 weeks ago

That was an example of high wages and great benefits not being able to draw in needed talent. 

Our area is experiencing a shortage in many areas of employment. 

Agree we need more people going to trade schools than college.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.30  Jack_TX  replied to  charger 383 @12.2.26    2 weeks ago
Because this country is over crowded.   

On what basis?  How do you measure that?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.31  Jack_TX  replied to  Sparty On @12.2.27    2 weeks ago
Well, electricians need training before they can safely do that job.

Not to be an apprentice.

BTW, there are thousands of trained electricians in Mexico.  They have electric lights, refrigerators, air conditioning, and everything.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.32  Sparty On  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @12.2.28    2 weeks ago

You sound angry towards Americans.

In America, I’ll take a well trained citizen any day over an untrained illegal alien.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.33  Sparty On  replied to  Kavika @12.2.29    2 weeks ago
Our area is experiencing a shortage in many areas of employment. 

You are not alone.    I retired this year largely because of just that.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.34  Sparty On  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.31    2 weeks ago

Well, doubt it’s different in most places in this country but here “Michigan”apprentices don’t start at 75k a year.     That takes 2-4 years of experience before that happens.

That said, if there were an excess of trained electricians crossing the border they would likely be filling many of those job openings ....

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
12.2.35  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sparty On @12.2.32    2 weeks ago

And you will pay double for the same work.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
12.2.36  charger 383  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.30    2 weeks ago

             "Because this country is over crowded.   

               On what basis?  How do you measure that?"

First observation: there are water shortages.   

Second observation:  overcrowed highways

3rd  power shortages and strain on utilities

4th  overcrowed schools

and the big one: climate change which is caused by overpopulation 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.37  Sparty On  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @12.2.35    2 weeks ago

True, many Americans do love their cheap labor ..... then they bitch about not making enough money and needing a living wage, great healthcare and a good pension  

Doh!

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.38  Jack_TX  replied to  Sparty On @12.2.34    2 weeks ago
Well, doubt it’s different in most places in this country but here “Michigan”apprentices don’t start at 75k a year.     That takes 2-4 years of experience before that happens.

It takes 4-6 in Texas, minimum.  Apprentice electricians are making anywhere from $15-$20/hr....training....under the direct supervision of a journeyman and secondary supervision of a Master Electrician. 

All they need to get started is a couple hundred bucks worth of basic tools and the willingness to get after it.

But "willingness to get after it" is eliminated by the consumption of fuckin' soy latte's, so American kids are not applying.

That said, if there were an excess of trained electricians crossing the border they would likely be filling many of those job openings ....

If you were a journeyman electrician in Mexico with the legal opportunity to triple your pay AND get away from the drug cartels, you'd jump at the chance.   Add one more hard-working hyphenated American to the party.

If we could muster ten operating brain cells among 330 million Americans, we'd be signing these future taxpayers up as fast as we could.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.39  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.38    2 weeks ago

This is a true story. There were many new custom homes being built in the area I lived in so there was a lot of granite/tile custom work available. There were 3 or 4 companies that did that type of work. The problem with them is that to get them to bid on the work was nearly impossible, they never seem to finish on time nor was their work what I would consider high-end custom. I was looking for some high-end work to be done and was steered to a very small company (two people) by a custom builder in the area that I knew. I contacted him and he was out the next day to look at what I wanted by the end of the day, I had a price from him and a start and completion date. He and his brother were immigrants from Mexico and trying to get their business started. He did an excellent job and finished on time. Their work was inventive and flawless.

Needless to say within a year or so his two person business was up to 6 or 7, all Mexican immigrants. He didn't lowball jobs and charged a fair price. 

Soon all the other tile companies were complaining that he had taken all their work. 

He, his brother and the people he brought in wanted to work and succeed and didn't take anything for granted. The one large custom builder in the area had all his granite and tile work done by them.

Lesson to be learned that if you/company want to work, do a great job and complete it on time and LISTEN to the customer you'll succeed.

This is the wages in Florida for an apprentice electrician.

 The average Electrician - Apprentice salary in Florida is $50,200 as of August 29, 2022, but the range typically falls between $43,800 and $58,300.

 
 
 
Revillug
Freshman Guide
12.2.40  Revillug  replied to  Kavika @12.2.24    2 weeks ago
We have a labor shortage because fewer Americans are working than before  Feb 20.

I suppose we could wait for the purchasing power of the dollar to shrink to the point that Americans will finally have to do the jobs again that they no longer want to do.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
12.2.41  Sparty On  replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.38    2 weeks ago

For the most part union trades apprenticeships in Michigan are four year programs although they can take longer or shorter depending on the person.     I got mine done in under three years but I had a lot of previous experience with a couple master licenses in my family.

Haven’t seen the latest contract but a Union journeyman plumber/pipe fitters full compensation package starts at about 110k a year.    A first year apprentice is about 50% of that so about 50k.

Its a great living if one is willing to actually work.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.42  Kavika   replied to  Revillug @12.2.40    2 weeks ago

That was drinker of the wry comment not mine, Revillug.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
12.2.43  cjcold  replied to  afrayedknot @12.2.3    2 weeks ago

It's getting really hot down south in more ways than one.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
12.2.44  Jack_TX  replied to  Sparty On @12.2.41    one week ago
Its a great living if one is willing to actually work.

It absolutely is.  And the demand is huge.

Imagine all those $100k/yr taxpayers we could have?  Every one of them vastly smarter than some elementary school teacher who can't pay her $400k student loans.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
12.2.45  Kavika   replied to  Jack_TX @12.2.44    one week ago

Even better is to get on with the ILWU (longshoreman west coast) Their average income dwarfs $100K.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
13  Gsquared    2 weeks ago

DeathSantis's stunt backfired because the people he sent to Martha's Vineyard were warmly greeted by the locals.  They were then brought to shelters in locations where they could be provided appropriate services, but the reactionaries, attempting to salvage DeathSantis's failed and discredited propaganda narrative, are now, bizarrely, screaming that DeathSantis's political pawns are being mistreated by the local people on Martha's Vineyard.

It's an epic fail by DeathSantis and the reactionary propagandists who all look like complete fools.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
13.1  Kavika   replied to  Gsquared @13    2 weeks ago

Here is a link to an interesting piece of history regarding Martha's Vineyard.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
13.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  Kavika @13.1    2 weeks ago

Very interesting and informative link, Kavika.  Thanks.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
13.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @13    2 weeks ago

fired because the people he sent to Martha's Vineyard were warmly greeted by the locals

Lol..  I guess some people are immune to hypocrisy.  Of course, the same people thought the evacuation of Kabul was a win for Biden. 

They  freaked out., called it a humanitarian crises, called in the national guard and bussed them off the island ASAP. 

It couldn't possibly have worked out better politically for DeSantis. 

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
13.2.1  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @13.2    2 weeks ago

I guess some people support DeathSantis's hypocrisy.

DeathSantis is on the wrong side of the vast majority of Floridians on the abortion issue, on gun safety.  Bullying and culture war wedge issues are his pathetic attempt to distract voters who are opposed to his hard core MAGA Republican dogmas and rile up the reactionary base.

Next, DeathSantis is going to try to "out-QAnon" Trump.  The battle for QAnon loyalty is about to heat up.

It couldn't possibly have worked out better politically for DeSantis.

Only in the minds of those who are easily taken in by his fraudulent propaganda.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
13.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @13.2.1    2 weeks ago
n the minds of those who are easily taken in by his fraudulent propaganda.

Lol.  [Deleted

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
13.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Gsquared @13    2 weeks ago
stunt backfired because the people he sent to Martha's Vineyard were warmly greeted by the locals.

Such a "warm welcome" they were shipped off somewhere else within 24 hours.  Just gotta love the inclusion and hypocrisy of the liberals.  

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
13.3.1  Gsquared  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @13.3    2 weeks ago

Unlike DeathSantis, who engaged in abuse and deceit, the local people in Martha's Vineyard provided for the Venezualans, who were then voluntarily moved to a location where they could be provided appropriate services.

You just gotta laugh at the hypocrisy and feeble propaganda of the reactionaries.  Even they don't really believe the garbage they spew.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
PhD Principal
13.3.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @13.3    2 weeks ago

Yep

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
13.3.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Gsquared @13.3.1    2 weeks ago
DeathSantis

[Deleted personal insult]

who engaged in abuse and deceit, the local people in Martha's Vineyard provided for the Venezualans, who were then voluntarily moved to a location where they could be provided appropriate services.

Sounds like DeSantis and Abbot are in line with Biden's policy for moving illegals around.  What are you bitching about?

You just gotta laugh at the hypocrisy and feeble propaganda of the reactionaries.

[deleted]

[Sweeping generalization]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
13.3.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Gsquared @13.3.1    2 weeks ago

Exactly, now maybe Massachusetts will plan for and transport the remaining migrants in TX and AZ that constitute their fair share. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
13.3.5  Sean Treacy  replied to  Gsquared @13.3.1    2 weeks ago
who were then voluntarily moved to a location 

They voluntarily went to Martha's Vineyard and then the locals called the national guard and bussed them out ASAP.

ven they don't really believe the garbage they s

It's scary to think people believe the people of Martha's Vineyard welcomed the immigrants they used the national guard to expel from this island.   But people do join cults. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
13.3.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sean Treacy @13.3.5    2 weeks ago
It's scary to think people believe the people of Martha's Vineyard welcomed the immigrants they used the national guard to expel from this island. 

That was just to ensure that they didn't overstay their welcome. I've always thought that the ideal amount of time for a houseguest stay is three days and two nights.  Apparently on Martha's Vineyard, it's two days and nights.   

 
 
 
Gsquared
Senior Expert
13.3.7  Gsquared  replied to  Sean Treacy @13.3.5    2 weeks ago
They voluntarily went to Martha's Vineyard

Based on fraud and deceit.

the locals called the national guard

On Friday morning in Martha's Vineyard, the migrants, a group of mostly Venezuelans including half a dozen children, boarded buses en route to a ferry to Cape Cod in transportation organized by Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker, a Republican (emphasis added). 

people do join cults

Yes, many reactionaries are joining Trump in QAnon.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
13.3.8  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Gsquared @13.3.7    2 weeks ago
Based on fraud and deceit.

So lets see your proof of this.  

On Friday morning in Martha's Vineyard, the migrants, a group of mostly Venezuelans including half a dozen children, boarded buses en route to a ferry to Cape Cod

So the pasty white liberals in Martha's Vineyard pawned them off on somebody else.  So much for that "warm welcome".

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
14  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

Just wondering what would happen if New York and California were to send all their homeless to Texas and Florida.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
14.1  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @14    2 weeks ago

Why would Texas and Florida want those two Democrat bastion of stupidity homeless? They are already taking in more of their fair share of those states educated workforce.

California and New York need to keep their homeless in order to stay relevant as a political power.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
14.1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ronin2 @14.1    2 weeks ago

I'm sure they'd want them as much as Martha's Vineyard wants 50 Venezuelan immigrants.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
14.1.2  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @14.1.1    2 weeks ago

California (sanctuary state), New York (sanctuary city), and Martha's Vineyard (sanctuary island). All are supposed to welcome migrants- legal or not.

Show us where Texas has declared they are a sanctuary for the homeless?

Leftists are just pissed their virtue signaling elitists were outed as racists. Democrats are the first to criticize Republicans border states for complaining about the illegal immigrant problem. They can't even handle their fair share of the migrant problem. Easy to be racist hypocrites in their enclaves far away from the border problem.

 

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
14.2  dennissmith  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @14    2 weeks ago

Why would they if the homeless entered the country legally?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
14.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennissmith @14.2    2 weeks ago

I don't think legality has anything to do with getting even.  However, let's see if DeSantis gets charged with an offence or loses a lawsuit brought by the migrants first. 

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
15  squiggy    2 weeks ago

"Just wondering what would happen if New York and California were to send all their homeless to Texas and Florida."

There would be an uproar because they are already Americans. It would be like China sending it's Muslims to Xinjiang.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
16  charger 383    2 weeks ago

Again, if they had not been allowed to cross the US border this would not be a problem anywhere in this country.  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
16.1  charger 383  replied to  charger 383 @16    2 weeks ago

Fix the problem where it starts

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
16.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  charger 383 @16.1    2 weeks ago

There is no problem ..... Kamala tells us the border is secure .....

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
17  magicschoolbusdropout    2 weeks ago

A "Republican does it in the "Light" of Day,

256

Brandon and Company does it in the "Dark" of Night, 

To those who deeply hide their plans, and those deeds are done in a dark place, Woe is you.

"Satan disguises himself as an angel of light"

256

and the "Republican" is considered "Sadistic ?

 
 

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