Murders in U.S. Increased at Slower Pace in 2021, FBI Data Show - WSJ

The national crime estimates for 2021 are based on unusually low participation by local law-enforcement agencies as the FBI makes a transition to a new data-collection system. Law-enforcement agencies covering 65% of the U.S. population submitted data to the new National Incident-Based Reporting System in 2021, compared with 95% in recent years.

While the new system includes more details about each incident, some law-enforcement agencies have been slow to switch over. Most agencies in three of the most-populous states—California, Florida and New York—didn’t report figures, including departments in the two largest cities, New York City and Los Angeles.


So let's try to understand this: About a month before an election, the FBI is releasing an estimate on crime without the stats from the major crime centers of NYC and LA among other lawless cities!

How partisn and dishonest!

So let's try to understand this: About a month before an election, the FBI is releasing an estimate on crime without the stats from the major crime centers of NYC and LA among other lawless cities! How partisn and dishonest!

Well they have to cook the books somehow, everything else they have claimed in this election half cycle has been a lie... what's new...

It sounds like some don't really want to know anyway. It is going to be a voting issue, whether they like it or not.

These statistics, outside the panic of politically driven hysteria, are close to meaningless. 

For example, a city or state could have 10 murders per 100,000 people, last year. This year they have 15 murders per 100,000 people and the "statistics" record it as a 50% increase (the horror!) which is , statistically, immense. 

But in reality it represents 5 more murders per 100,000 population , and that is a small (make that tiny) amount of increase. Besides that these things go up and down all the time. The murder rates were far higher 30 or 40 years ago. 

Emphasis on crime rates is a political effort, to scare people into voting for the Republicans. 

are close to meaningless. 

Yup without the stats from big blue cities they are meaningless.



Emphasis on crime rates is a political effort,

It is an important issue in the coming election.

The policies of defunding the police, bail reform and woke DA's is on the ballot.

Police aren't being defunded ANYWHERE.

What's this?  the 5th time?

lawenforcementtoday

I don't know when it will sink in.

I'll sink in when their cities defund the police and the crime affects them.  Until then, they'll keep their heads in their 4th point of contact and make moronic claims.

Was the source no good?

Or was it Bull Shit?

I don't think murder & mayhem bother people who never use the subway or public transportation, or the inner city.  When one sits behind a computer, crime seems very distant or at least that's the way they act.

When one sits behind a computer, crime seems very distant or at least that's the way they act

You'll get that from people who refuse to leave mommy's basement.

mommy's basement.

The safest place in town!

So you and JRIN just make it up as you go?

I provided a link showing that the NYPD was defunded to the tune of $1 Billion.


I work in the inner city. 

I know....Baltimore, or as the locals call it: "B-more."  This may shock you, but a few of us were worried about you the past 2 days.

They were not defunded.  

$1 Billion was defunded from the NYPD budget. Didn't you read it?


Worried about me why?

That's right. We don't want anything to happen to you.

We may vigorously disagree, but as far as you are concerned....we don't hate you.

I would say disbelieve, discount, don't give credence to, don't believe a word you say, etc., etc., etc.

You don't have to.

I also need to add  - don't like you, etc., etc., etc.

I can live with it.

is the basement lined with bubble wrap and have an endless supply of hot pockets ?

So you and JRIN just make it up as you go?

And exactly where are we making it up?  You've been provided links to the information (that you admittedly refuse to look at) and have provided ZERO to back up your claims.

So you have 2 choices.  

1. Provide information backing your claim.
2. STFU.

Yup...with a desk, computer and a package of skittles. What goes on outside is nobody's business.

The truth is necessary not that it's something found here except from myself and say John and Ozz.

Oh, that's where truth is to be found?

Let me write it down:  The truth can be found with Tessylo, John and Ozz.

Ok, I've got it!

Actually, he does provide links.

Maybe if you paid attention instead of blathering on spamming articles you might actually learn something.  

Let me write it down:  The truth can be found with Tessylo, John and Ozz.

Make a sub-note that you have to turn off your critical thinking skills for ANY of it to make sense.

She would need to actually read the linked material to understand that but she's consistently stated that she does not read links.  Hard to understand why someone would willing pursue such willful ignorance but it's there for all to see.

I understand that last month, Baltimore City only had 14 homicides and 57 non-fatal shootings.

Semantics, right?

It won't sink it ever

And the truth finally comes out.

The truth can be found with Tessylo, John and Ozz.

You seriously did not type that with a straight face, did you?

No...LMAO!

eality it represents 5 more murders per 100,000 population , and that is a small (make that tiny) amount of increase.

No, what's shocking is  the number is still increasing after the massive 30% jump the year before.  

Compare the murder rate to 2019 and only the mathematically illiterate would call the increase  "tiny".

But in reality it represents 5 more murders per 100,000 population ,

Its fascinating how you downplay murder though. Where is this perspective after incidents like Uvalde.  Shouldn't you dismiss that incident as not noteworthy, since only an exceedingly tiny fraction of school kids were murdered there? 

Its fascinating how you downplay murder though.

What I find surprising however is that nobody yet has brought up the "easy access to guns" as an excuse.  I thought that was one of the main-stay's of the left.

Is an increase of 5 murders per 100,000 population something to get in a national panic over?  I think you know the true answer to that. Raw number increases in such small totals are distorted when converted to percentages. Someone who has one dollar can get another one and now they have 100 percent more money than they had before and still cant buy a cup of coffee. 

Most people dont understand the reality, they hear that murder rates are up 50% and they freak out.  The Republicans are exploiting that this year. 

The best one was when they provided a study that claimed people who are cooped-up, as they were during the pandemic, turn violent. 

That has to be the most absurd excuse ever posted on NT. 

Its fascinating how you downplay murder though.

I am not downplaying murder, it is a terrible thing no matter how many there are , one is too many.  But is the increase something to get in a national panic over? Not at all. 

So there’s no violence problem in the country and there’s no reason to complain about guns, since the chance of being murdered by a gun are so small?

I am not downplaying murder, it is a terrible thing no matter how many there are , one is too many.  But is the increase something to get in a national panic over? Not at all. 

Guess it's all what side of the political divide you are on and what the partisan talking points are.  I've seen you practically demand a national panic over a gun murder.  

If the crime problem and murder totals are so small, why do gun lovers need to constantly have them with them? Why not leave it at home and everyone can be safe.

I dont think it is the "low" crime rate that makes people want gun control , it is the prospect of grocery shopping when some maniac comes in and slaughters people for the fun of it. Same with the schools. 

Of course in raw numbers only an infinitesimal number of people are killed in mass shootings. But the fear the incidents spread is much much more. 

I used to take the subway and "el" back and forth to work, in Chicago, almost every day. Part of the way the train passed through the worst neighborhoods in Chicago. I was never afraid that someone was going to shoot me , and that was partially in an era when murder rates were much higher than they are now. 

But if I had young kids today I think I would be concerned whether some maniac was sizing up their school. 

I've seen you practically demand a national panic over a gun murder.  

Uh, that would be a no. 

I do think AR-15's and similar should be grandfathered out of production because they are so often the gun of choice in notorious mass murders and they are now a tainted object . And no one needs them (they do "want" them though). 

I do think AR-15's and similar should be grandfathered out of production because they are so often the gun of choice in notorious mass murders and they are now a tainted object . And no one needs them

I'd vote for that.

I do think AR-15's and similar should be grandfathered out of production because they are so often the gun of choice in notorious mass murders and they are now a tainted object . And no one needs them (they do "want" them though). 

If that's what the people want then fine. But I don't believe doing so would make any difference in the world as there are so many millions of them already out in the public.  

I would rather that actual gun laws be actually enforced.  On federal form 4473 it's printed right at the top that lying on this form is a felony.  In case you don't remember, that's the form one fills out when buying a gun from a licensed dealer so that the background check thru the NICS system can be performed.

The FBI, in reviewing instant background checks for firearm purchases, detected 112,000 lie-and-try crimes in fiscal 2017 alone, and federal investigators had names and addresses on the filled-out forms. How many were prosecuted? Twelve, according to a recent  Government Accountability Office report . usatoday

If the government is not going to bother to prosecute a felony around gun control then how can they push for additional gun control?

Not to mention there's no teeth in the NICS system at the present time.  There's nothing to enforce reporting agencies to forward pertinent information to the NICS system so that background checks can be performed against up to date information.  How many of those mass murders could have been stopped by a simple matter of the person not being able to purchase the gun due to the correct information being in the NICS system?

I wouldn't .

no one needs them (they do "want" them though). 

personal opinion at best .

 That antelope i harvested on my recent hunting trip was harvested with an AR-15, granted , i installed the longer barrel , modifided my magazine so it only held 4 rounds( disassembled the mag and installed a plug to limit how many it would hold, just like one does for a shotgun for duck or goose hunting  , done to err on the side of caution because there was nothing in the hunting regs that stated i couldnt have a mag that could hold more if i wanted  , but it did exactly as it was suppose to with the first and only shot taken .

 it was the right sized tool for the intended job it was used for .

matter of fact i am contemplating "up sizing " to a different cal round , 6.8 mm, while still being able to use what i already have except the upper . but still doing some research on that and cost feasability .

I do think AR-15's and similar should be grandfathered out of production because they are so often the gun of choice in notorious mass murders and they are now a tainted object .

Additionally,  why the emphasis on the AR-15 and similar when handguns are used in three times the number of mass murders as long guns?  

Notably, most individuals who engaged in mass shootings used handguns (77.2%), and 25.1% used assault rifles in the commission of their crimes.

nij.ojp

One of the VERY rare occasions that I can vote your comment up.

These statistics, outside the panic of politically driven hysteria, are close to meaningless. 

Yeah, we certainly can't use statistics for planning.  Planning isn't the forte of the political leaders we have now.  We just have to accept kneejerk reactions as the status quo because no one saw this coming.

For example, a city or state could have 10 murders per 100,000 people, last year. This year they have 15 murders per 100,000 people and the "statistics" record it as a 50% increase (the horror!) which is , statistically, immense.  But in reality it represents 5 more murders per 100,000 population , and that is a small (make that tiny) amount of increase. Besides that these things go up and down all the time. The murder rates were far higher 30 or 40 years ago. 

Yep, numbers don't lie.  But statistics can be used to lie.  10 murders per 100,000 would be 10 murders in a city of 100,000.  But that's 100 murders in a city of 1,000,000.  See the difference?

30 or 40 years ago the population size was smaller, too.  So, a higher murder rate in a smaller population could still be fewer people murdered then compared to now.  

Emphasis on crime rates is a political effort, to scare people into voting for the Republicans. 

So, the corollary argument would that emphasis on crime rates make Democrats look bad.  You know, it would be kinda hard to scare people into voting for Republicans if Democrats had not screwed the crime pooch.  What's so amazing is that Democrats use victimhood as a political message and yet want to sweep crime victims under the rug.  Unless, of course, it's the right kind of crime against the right kind of people.  Then those Democrat knees jerk really hard. 

For example, a city or state could have 10 murders per 100,000 people, last year

10 per 100,000, huh?

The rate is more like:

St. Louis, MO (69.4)
Baltimore, MD (51.1)
New Orleans, LA (40.6)
Detroit, MI (39.7)
Cleveland, OH (33.7)
Las Vegas, NV (31.4)
Kansas City, MO (31.2)
Memphis, TN (27.1)
Newark, NJ (25.6)
Chicago, IL (24)
Cincinnati, OH (23.8)
Philadelphia, PA (20.2)
Milwaukee, WI (20.0)
Tulsa, OK (18.6)
Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)
Indianapolis, IN (17.7)
Louisville, KY (17.5)
Oakland, CA (17.1)
Washington D.C. (17.0)
Atlanta, GA (16.7)

For example, a city or state could have 10 murders per 100,000 people, last year

What city or state are you looking at?

I'm tracking:

• St. Louis, MO (69.4)
• Baltimore, MD (51.1)
• New Orleans, LA (40.6)
• Detroit, MI (39.7)
  Cleveland, OH (33.7)
  Las Vegas, NV (31.4)
  Kansas City, MO (31.2)
  Memphis, TN (27.1)
  Newark, NJ (25.6)
  Chicago, IL (24)
  Cincinnati, OH (23.8)
  Philadelphia, PA (20.2)
  Milwaukee, WI (20.0)
  Tulsa, OK (18.6)
  Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)
  Indianapolis, IN (17.7)
  Louisville, KY (17.5)
  Oakland, CA (17.1)
  Washington D.C. (17.0)
  Atlanta, GA (16.7)

Well he did say "For example".  So that really means he made up the statistics to try to prove a point.  Unfortunately the only point he seemed to prove is that statistics lie.

So that really means he made up the statistics to try to prove a point

Keeping his imagination after childhood may be a good thing.

Besides that these things go up and down all the time. The murder rates were far higher 30 or 40 years ago. 

You make it sound like we are not supposed to care about crime or we should ignore the stats entirely. I haven’t seen denial like this outside of conservatives who want to ignore climate data. What gives?

“The temperature goes up and down all the time. We had bigger storms 30 or 40 years ago.” That’s what you sound like.

Emphasis on crime rates is a political effort, to scare people into voting for the Republicans.

So you see the release of this information as being politically driven? Why? The FBI collects and reports data on crime every year. It’s required by law.

This particular report indicates a much slower increase in crime than the previous year. If you are really concerned about politics, you could spin that into “good news.” After all, the administration does exactly that when Inflation increases by “only” 8% instead of 9%.

Lets say you live in a city with a 100,000 population. Maybe Peoria Illinois. Not a big city, but a decent size small city. 

Last year there were 10 murders reported in Peoria, but by the end of this year there were 15 murders reported. Do you seriously believe the people of Peoria would freak out about that? Its just a silly argument. 

Murder rates are based on 100,000 population. A gain (or loss) of 5 murders in that size group is basically meaningless. 

Last year there were 10 murders reported in Peoria, but by the end of this year there were 15 murders reported.

Good job Peoria, your rate is going down.  I seem to remember a rate of 22 or 23 per 100,000 a couple of years ago.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

twainquotes

Do you seriously believe the people of Peoria would freak out about that? Its just a silly argument.

I don’t see where anybody is asked to freak out. But would they care? Yeah, I think they would. I live in a town about that size. Every murder is big news. A few more is bad news, and a few less is good news. That’s really not that strange of a perspective.

But like I asked, why are you trying so hard on this story? It’s just a report of data. No politics. No call to “freak out.”

Crime has not abated here in Denver, and it's absurd to think murder and violent crime rates have gone down in the bigger cities either. It appears the FBI is attempting to influence another election in order to make Biden look good

d it's absurd to think murder and violent crime rates have gone down in the bigger cities either.

You can seen the talking point develop. They've created a new normal of murder rates being 30% higher than they were just three years ago, and they  will claim that's a win because the rate of increase has slowed.

That’s reminiscent of the democrats talking points of spending  cuts.

We wanted to spend 4 trillion more than last year, but only spent 3.9 trillion more, we cut spending by 100 billion! Look how careful we are with you tax dollars!

This whole discussion is surreal.

While too many are only too willing to debate the fucking statistics, too many families are silently left to bury their loved ones…families shattered, but only collateral damage in tacit acceptance of our murderous gun culture. 

Yes, let’s blame the inanimate object instead of the actual criminal. 

So ignoring the seed which is actually about statistics,  you turn to a partisan talking point.  Do you have any actual thoughts on changes that could make a difference or are you only able to regurgitate the talking points?  

“…regurgitate…”

A sickening denial that we are daily, hourly, by the minute dealing with a societal curse.

Talking points? How about we just once deal with the reality, our inability to address the multi-faceted issues, and ultimately the human costs? 

So I take that as a no you don't really have any thoughts on the subject you brought up.  I've brought up my ideas numerous times, I don't remember seeing any reply from you as to the potential of those ideas doing any good.

“…you don't really have any thoughts on the subject…”

Respectfully:

Mandatory background checks. If convicted of any violent crime, you forfeit your right to own a firearm until you go before a judge. 

Mandatory gun safety training every time a new weapon is purchased. 

No further manufacture of AR style weapons (and please no debate here as we all know the subject) Grandfather in all previous owners. 
 
No private sales. Only by a licensed, regulated retailer. No aftermarket sales of bump stocks or extended magazines. 

Just a start, but a step in the right direction that any responsible gun owner should embrace.

And I’m not a gun grabber and realize the 2nd Amendment is sacrosanct, but I’m also a realist and see we have a problem…so go ahead and shoot holes in any of these arguments as you must. Been a target of those only so eager to do so without aim every time the subject comes up. 

Just my opinion. 

Mandatory background checks. If convicted of any violent crime, you forfeit your right to own a firearm until you go before a judge. 

Sure.

Mandatory gun safety training every time a new weapon is purchased. 

Why a new class, I still remember what I learned in my NRA gun safety class 58 years ago.

No further manufacture of AR style weapons 

Most firearm homicides are committed with pistols and AR rifles are a small subset of the few killed by rifles.

No private sales. Only by a licensed, regulated retailer.

So I can't sell mine but have to leave them to my heirs?

Can i play? 

"Mandatory background checks. If convicted of any violent crime, you forfeit your right to own a firearm until you go before a judge."

Not just violent crimes, any felony. A conviction of domestic abuse = lifetime ban.  And a Judge shouldn't be able to restore your rights. only a pardon, or conviction over turned. 

"Mandatory gun safety training every time a new weapon is purchased."

Sorry but nope, unless you want to add a civics test to vote. plus this is the equivalent to a poll tax. we don't tax constitutional rights.

"No further manufacture of AR style weapons (and please no debate here as we all know the subject) Grandfather in all previous owners.  No private sales. Only by a licensed, regulated retailer. No aftermarket sales of bump stocks or extended magazines." 

My mini ranch 14 is functionally the same as an "AR15" style rifle, the main difference is it's not "scary" and black" Are Pink AR's okay?

I'm okay with no private sales, and lying on a gun check form should be a felony, that is actually prosecuted and not ignored like the DOJ does now.

"Just a start, but a step in the right direction that any responsible gun owner should embrace. I’m not a gun grabber and realize the 2nd Amendment is sacrosanct.

I’m also a realist and see we have a problem..,but go ahead and shoot holes in any of these arguments as you must. Been a target of those eager to shoot without aim for many years now. "

Yes, we absolutely have a problem, but it's not the inanimate object. It's mental health.

Respectfully: Mandatory background checks. If convicted of any violent crime, you forfeit your right to own a firearm until you go before a judge. 

If convicted of a felony you are already prohibited from owning / possessing a firearm.  So that's already law.

For the background checks, they are already mandatory for a purchase from a licensed gun seller.  I would take that a step further to put some teeth behind the reporting requirements to the NICS system.  Right now the rule is that states and reporting agencies SHOULD report their data in a timely manner.  But how many recent shootings have occurred where after the fact we find out that the person had recently purchased their gun but should not have except the data that would have prevented the sales from going thru was not forwarded to the NICS system.  Congress should change the law to put some enforcement behind the non-reporting of data.

Mandatory gun safety training every time a new weapon is purchased. 

I disagree with training for every new weapon.  How many times does a person need to be told that the bullets come out of the barrel and they need to be careful with where they point it.  With some people, no matter how many times they are told it just will not take.  I would rather see an annual "life skills" class in every year of primary and high school, this class would have the necessary skills that everybody needs to survive.  ie, how to balance a check book,  what is interest, what is investing and savings, etc.  And in this class twice a year I would want an age appropriate class on gun safety.  Too many children get their training on gun handling from TV shows and movies.  Getting actual valid safety skills twice a year might stand a better chance.  This also then avoids the argument some will have on your suggestion that it's too similar to a poll tax.  (ie, if you have to take a class to buy a gun then you should have to take a class before you vote).

No further manufacture of AR style weapons (and please no debate here as we all know the subject) Grandfather in all previous owners.  No private sales. Only by a licensed, regulated retailer. No aftermarket sales of bump stocks or extended magazines. 

I don't believe this would make any difference in how things work out but if the majority of people would vote for something like this then it could become law.  Bump stocks are already a illegal item so that's covered  ( atf )  but I don't agree with the extended magazine restriction personally.

Just a start, but a step in the right direction that any responsible gun owner should embrace.

And I’m not a gun grabber and realize the 2nd Amendment is sacrosanct, but I’m also a realist and see we have a problem…so go ahead and shoot holes in any of these arguments as you must. Been a target of those only so eager to do so without aim every time the subject comes up. 

Just my opinion. 

Thank you 

No private sales. Only by a licensed, regulated retailer.

So I can't sell mine but have to leave them to my heirs?

I believe what he is saying here is that a private owner cannot sell directly but must go thru a licensed retailer to sell the guns.  Basically treating every gun sale as if it were an interstate gun sale.  Not the first time I've heard this suggestion.  I don't know for sure if it would catch on, but I dislike allowing the federal government to get involved in intra-state commerce. 

I believe what he is saying here is that a private owner cannot sell directly but must go thru a licensed retailer to sell the guns.  Basically treating every gun sale as if it were an interstate gun sale.  Not the first time I've heard this suggestion.  I don't know for sure if it would catch on, but I dislike allowing the federal government to get involved in intra-state commerce. 

WE actually have these laws, (most of them) in place in Washington State... The biggest problem with them is enforcement, as most of the county sheriff's have reported... WE need laws that CAN be enforced, AND, people willing to enforce them...

The gun problem will have a large chunk of it problem taken away if we ever get to this point... But we never will, they need a fear issue to sell the rest of their social paradigm to the citizens...

And rising murder rates serve that well... (even though they create the situation to cause the rates to rise with lack of enforcement)

So yeah it's not a large or non-rational idea that democrats want the murder rate to rise, gives them more justification for their fear fueled actions...

"tacit acceptance of our murderous gun culture."

Sounds like you're talking about the criminal element...it's not the average legal gun owners who are doing the shooting.

in tacit acceptance of our murderous gun culture

In tacit acceptance of our violent, criminal culture.

Here in our nation's capital, overall crime in D.C. is down, while violent crime is up. Homicides are up 1% over this time last year.  Last year's murder rate was the highest in over 20 years.

Our city council has halted police hiring and abolished school resource officers since the police are the enemy. They have also  barred police officers from reviewing body-cam footage before writing their reports, no need for more accurate reporting.

Currently, our council is considering an overhaul of the criminal code, to include a proposal to eliminate carjacking as a separate crime as well as reducing penalties for armed robbery and other crimes. 

Armed robbery?  or is it forcing the rich to pay more in direct taxes? 

Armed robbery?  or is it forcing the rich to pay more in direct taxes? 

We are good with both here.

I guess the Supreme Court just told Massachusetts to shove their gun control law. 
Maybe someday legislators will figure out what a right is.

I read the news today, oh boy  
"Murders In U.S. Increased At Slower Pace In 2021"
And though the news was rather sad
The fact that it's so tolerated
By those who think it's not so bad
Well I just had to laugh

(With apologies to The Beatles) 

LINK -> bilibili