The final chapter: The seven counts
Link to Quote: Julius Caesar: Antony's Speech in Act 3 Scene 2
Normally we would have a high bar for one administration trying to prosecute the previous administration and to make it even better, during an election in which both men are running against one another. In the times we live in it is no longer important whether the rule of law is followed, it is only important to do whatever one thinks is necessary to save the nation from perceived enemies. Our unelected officials have taken it upon themselves to do whatever it takes.
We have all heard the axiom that those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it. Long ago in ancient Rome, a group of Roman Senators took it upon themselves to act on what they believed was in the best interests of the Roman Republic. On the Ides of March in 44 BC they stabbed the Roman leader Julius Caesar 23 times. In Shakespeare's famous play "Julius Caesar," the ringleader feels he can make the stunned people understand that it had to be done. Today the American are also stunned by the repeated indicting of a former President. For a time Brutus convinces the people that Caesar had to go. In the Shakespeare story, he compares Caesar to a serpent's egg which is vulnerable now in it's shell, but dangerous later. Thus, the time was right. The missing ingredient here, of course is the speech that followed the Brutus proclamation. Marc Antony walked a tight rope. He was surrounded by these murderous zealots. They knew he was a friend to Caesar and he convinced them that he only wanted to say a few parting words. He started out sort of agreeing with the killers, but he gently convinces the people to go the other way. We don't have a Marc Antony. We have to depend on the conscience of the American people.
It may be Trump's final act or this may have a strange trajectory. It will be hard to get a trial in before the election. Could this criminal case become the key election issue?
The public still remembers that Biden had classified documents in various locations, so the DOJ may be caught between charging Trump for things that Biden is also guilty of or making the case so narrow that it becomes obvious that they are trying to make the Biden issue different. Either way it's not a good look for the government, which people not only distrust, but are beginning to fear. The charges have to be solid or people will come to believe that it was all about denying the voters a certain choice in the next election. I suspect that like all the things that the Trump haters have charged Trump with in the past that the law may have been contorted & weaponized to get this one man. We shall see exactly what the latest charges are soon enough. It may be the final chapter not only for Trump, but also for us.
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ANTONY : Now let it work. Mischief, thou art afoot, Take thou what course thou wilt.
trump has brought these indictments solely upon himself, with his decisions and with his actions. no man is above the law and all americans stand as equals before it. unlike trump's DOJ, this DOJ under garland is operating a lot more independent of the administration. if maga republicans wish to further obstruct the constitutional process, whether in our government or in our streets, let them try, and then let them pay the constitutional price for each.
It is the most politicized in history. Garland has even outdone Obama's wingman.
if that was true, durham's office would have been a janitors closet in the DOJ basement, and you're purposely ignoring the role bill barr played in the last administration. trump has admitted his obstruction numerous times on tape/video and the conspiracy charge means that more than 1 person participated. it looks as though somebody could see further down the road than trump and didn't want to be left holding the bag for him on the way to a federal prison cell, and they made a deal. as I pointed out on this forum last year, all of those classified documents that trump willfully retained are copies. there's only one way that trump's going to escape doing federal time, and you should mentally prepare yourself for each possibility.
So did Hillary Clinton; oh wait. For obstruction; destroying evidence; and mishandling classified information she was let off the hook by Comey the Establishment POS.
The law either applies to everyone; or no one. Democrats have proven it applies to no one. Hope they like living in the country they have created.
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he still cost her the election. why didn't trump do anything about it when he had the chance? he said he was going to in his 2016 campaign. how about a second helping of deja vu?
Anyone else would have been in fucking prison! Do you understand that?
She wasn't president. She had no right to declassify, hold, or use an unsecure server to send it. She had even less right to destroy it!
As for your Trump BS. The PoTUS doesn't have the power to prosecute anyone. Once Comey decided not to prosecute it was over. If Trump had pulled the same shit Brandon and his fascist AG are- the left would be howling at the moon; and Democrats would have moved to impeach him instantly.
You must be proud that tin horn dictators the world over will be able tell the US to fuck off whenever we try to lecture them about using the judicial system to punish their opponents.
Let us know when the charges against Brandon and his family are coming. We won't hold our breath. Garland is waiting the statute of limitation to run out on Hunter; and the FBI and DOJ are slow walking Brandon's mishandling of classified information in the same way.
Democrats have ended the US. I hope they are ready for the consequences that follow. People will not willingly live under their two tier justice system.
music to my ears. I can hardly wait...
Actually that wasn't illegal at the time.
But it was illegal to use to send and receive classified materials.
supporters of the former 'president' are talking about killing democrats now (as usual) in response to this next indictment against the former 'president'
next up - his incited failed coup/insurrection
when I heard the news first thing this morning about the former 'president' being indicted regarding the classified/top secret documents, and his mishandling (far too light a word regarding this fucking moron) I laughed and laughed and laughed, and then I laughed some more
hopefully his pal, arraignment judge cannon becomes collateral damage along the way too...
are still we talking about the willful retention, possession or conveyance, and repeated refusals to surrender those classified materials to an official government entity or agent by a private citizen?
You should have used a quote that Trump could understand.
The question is do our lefties understand?
any american whose view of the constitution is obscured by blind loyalty to an individual, deserves the consequences of their words and deeds.
projection
I thought he was too old the last time he ran, but I wasn't willing to turn america back over to a lying, racist, con artist. I made the right choice at the ballot box.
But, will you do so again?...
I haven't always voted for the winner, but I've always made the correct choice at the ballot box.
Sure, no doubt we all would like to feel as confident as you. What's your secret?..
he's possibly, not insecure, like a certain other
Perhaps, whom would that certain other be, ignorant?
Y yes, i would also label " that certain other" ignorant, as well.
50+ years in sales and service. I read people, which is why we don't talk much...
hey iggy, nice to see you back ...
that would be you
What would be me?
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Insecure about what?... their opinions?....
"One small step for man. A giant leap for justice"...
The word is a coup against the man they feared.
"Here was a Caesar! Where comes such another?”
(3.2. Line 264-66).
Of course Alvin Bragg is an honourable man, we should take his word.
Of course Jack Smith is an honourable man, we should take his word.
Of course Merrick Garland is an honourable man....
Of course James Comey is an honourable man...
Of course Peter Strzok is an honourable man...
Shakespeare used the honourable man quote 5 times in the Marc Antony speech. The phrase eventually loses its meaning, then it comes to mean the opposite.
Do you get it America?
Vic, is Donald Trump an honorable man?
Was Caesar?
You seem to have constructed some huge pile of nonsense inside your noggin this morning.
I think it was a perfect analogy.
I'm not sure you could find 10 people in the entire country to agree with your analogizing Trump to Julius Caesar.
But whats more, what is the point?
I'm sure that many people see the analogy between the removal of Caesar to the removal of Trump. Let's admit that is what all of this is about.
But whats more, what is the point?
Oh that's right, you and a few others don't get points, no matter how obvious they are. Here is the point for those who never get it: You have to put him in jail before the election or you may have just helped him win the Presidency! Don't you think independents who didn't care for Trump might just care less for politicizing the law to prevent a candidate from winning the Presidency? You might just put him right back in the White House. Nobody over the age of 5 doesn't know what Garland & Biden are trying to do.
I'm not sure if any of the charges even after a conviction would prevent him from obtaining the presidency should he win the EC count. From everything I can find, there's nothing to prevent a convicted felon from running for president, even if he's currently in prison. I'm not even sure if conviction in the US Senate for Impeachment would prevent him from running and possibly winning again, the only thing impeachment really does is remove one from office.
With the volume of investigations and attacks against Trump that ultimately did nothing to remove him from office, I'm worried that a lot of people will discount this latest one as another partisan attack because the optics of this sure do look bad.
That is my point which some still can't see.
You are not Honorable?
Yes, Shakespeare wrote Marc Anthony a really nice speech over a thousand years later, but we should remember Julius Caesar was killed by Roman Senators for being the original "Tyrant". The man who ended the Roman Republic by declaring himself "Dictator"...
now i see the connection...
People over the age of 5 know that Trump is using his candidacy to shield himself from justice. And you are falling for it !
So of course the former 'president' is an honorable man, right Vic?
Only severely obtuse people would see the the removal of Trump (who really has removed himself by his own actions) who was the loser in an overly litigious election, and the theatrical assassination of Julius Cesar, a dictator who wrested control from the senate to make himself the sole arbiter of right and wrong... oh wow. There is a similarity after all.
Good grief ... this is utter madness.
Those people are insane.
I kind of giggled when the last dude said that if Trump is convicted he will spend the rest of his life in prison. Seems like fair comeuppance for a lifetime of lying and thievery. .
But then I lighten up a little because he only attempted to cheat after the election, he didn't really get to declare himself chief cook and bottle washer in perpetuity.
Going from yelling and screaming to about to cry.
Holy hell, they act like he is the second coming....
Well, to a certain segment of the maga-verse he is the second coming. He has managed to re-create the Republican party into the MAGA party which he controls through his image: chaos. He has made the Republican voters and candidates run to the right both figuratively and literally. He was removed from the presidency (to the faithful, at least) by unlawful actions of the "Deep State" and he is about to be figuratively nailed to the cross by the same.
He is good at coming in second, luckily.
let trump lure the right wing radicals, relics, and refuse into the tar pit of history with him...
Is this all these fucks have? PD&D?
JFC - 'there's nothing in the constitution that says he can't be 'president' from inside prison and once he gets there, then he can pardon himself'
they're all fucked in the head
If Trump would somehow win the election as a convicted felon there would immediately be immense public pressure to impeach him. No way he would serve four years in peace.
He didn't the first time around. Why would another term be any different?
So it would be another full term of the left freaking out over fiction.
If Trump is found guilty (which is the condition of which JR wrote) then Trump being a convicted felon would not be fiction.
Of course for your alternate reality that might be different so here goes:
If Trump is convicted in the classified documents case, would you accept the decision of the due process trial or would you claim that the trial was a travesty of justice?
No. He'd be guilty of not being part of the hypocrisy.
Will we see the same standard applied to the likes of Biden? You already know it won't. And there in lies the hypocrisy.
If Trump is found guilty of a crime by a federal court you will deny the validity of the verdict. As expected.
I know it is pointless explaining to you the profound difference between the Trump case and the cases of Biden or Pence. So I will not even bother.
THANK GOD. We are tired of hearing that fictitious bullshit.
Fictitious bullshit?
Did Biden or Pence play stalling and deflection games with NARA? Did either lie that the documents they had were declassified? Did either brag about the documents they had while noting that the documents were still classified?
Both Biden and Pence cooperated on the return of their documents to NARA. Trump did not. Trump's refusal to cooperate is what got him into his current shitstorm.
And guess what, unless you hide under a rock, you will be hearing the above plus plenty of supporting details as Trump's trial ensues. And you will probably declare it all to be bullshit and further solidify your confirmation bias.
You leave out one key fact in all that nonsense. They both, like Trump and others before him, mishandled classified documents. And that is the hypocrisy I spoke of. Seems your TDS is trying to qualify the others while throwing your temper tantrum against trump.
You (and Just Jim) need someone to actually spell that out for you? You think it is not obvious that I was referring in all three cases to behavior after mishandling classified documents?
I bet everyone else who read my post knew that it was about the mishandling of classified documents by Trump, Biden and Pence.
Mishandling classified documents is the similarity. The difference is how these men dealt with the return. You apparently refuse to acknowledge that Trump's stalling, lying and refusal to return classified documents is what got him into trouble ... and that both Biden and Pence did the opposite and cooperated completely.
If Trump had cooperated with NARA as Biden and Pence did, he would not be facing indictments.
Spell what out? Your hypocrisy in that you are applying one standard to one person and not the others? Yeah, we already see and know about it. Your "qualifiers" don't mean a goddamn thing.
You admit then that you do not (and stubbornly will not) comprehend the (quite clear) differences between the Trump case and those of Biden and Pence.
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“Indictment for thee but not for me”
- Democrat two tier justice system
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Ah yes, the old Peewee Herman “ I know you are but what am I” gambit.
Classic.
Your defense of Trump varies between reflexive and sycophantic, but always delivered at high speed. It’s like it id released by a … trigger.
I’m defending nothing here. Least of all Biden’s two tiered justice system.
Perhaps if you spent less time crafting personal attacks and more time practicing reading comprehension, you might make that connection.
Good luck!
As opposed to the hate?
Unless someone agrees to let Trump do and say whatever he wants, you say they hate him.
I dont hate him, but if thats what it will take to get him off the American stage, I'll try.
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Remember what happened in ancient Rome. It may backfire John.
"Here was a Caesar! Where comes such another?”
(3.2. Line 264-66).
It’s not two tiered, it’s just oppressively ignorant. Btw, in this no value / skirting / taunting trifecta I came out worse than you.
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More personal attacks ...... sad ....
That was how Brutus felt. You need to pull it off or it will be regarded as a coup.
And unless someone is as vociferous as you in their hatred of Trump, you claim they are defending Trump.
Could we be as lucky as the ancient Romans?
Will our citizens turn on the assassins?
One can only hope.
And lose the Republic? What triumvirate of emperors are you hoping for?
We lost that 2 years ago.
Well, Canada is burning down up North. It’d be nice to wake up and not smell like someone has a campfire in my front and back yards.
A country that is politically between the US and China.
10 Year to current date average forest fires in US: Canadians don't complain about 'your' smoke.
And now you want to replace it with a Caesar ... that'll do the trick. /s
Marc Antony gave the people 3 examples of what Caesar had done for them.
Need I do the same?
Go ahead, but do try not to leave out the parts that the Bard did.
Ok:
Jack Smith says he was "ambitious." (Shakespeare also uses that word 5 times)
He hath secured a prosperous economy, as well as the southern border and gave us fair trade deals and energy self dependence:
Did this in Trump seem ambitious?
How am I doing?
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That's an easy one:
NO.
It might be better to ask if he is running against the most insane radical we ever had leading the country.
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Poorly, your mistake was trying to equate Trump with a Shakespearean tragedy by means of personal vanity. Try Othello the next time, Iago/Trump is a better fit.
Now I know I nailed it.
Thanks
Good, here's the instruction manual:
We are all disappointed.
So much education...and to post that!
Sauce for 'we' the self-goosed.
Terribly.
Trump didn’t secure a prosperous economy, that was handed to him by Obama (full employment, deficit reduced by more than half); GDP growth was linear beginning with the recovery from the Great Recession in 2009 until Trump’s epic mishandling of the pandemic. There are no perturbations in that curve from any other Trump activity.
Border crossings were doubling each year before the pandemic, what Trump did was institute cruel, unsustainable & unconstitutional policies. Conservatives liked the cruelty and equated it with effective policy. We need to redo our immigration policies, but the current scheme serves conservatives well so they have no interest in doing that. They can complain about it during Democratic Presidencies and say it’s all going great during Republican Presidencies.
George Will writes about USMCA: … It is the first U.S. trade agreement designed to decrease trade, and it is a larded with Democratic policy objectives …. As Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., notes, under NAFTA there were zero tariffs on 100% of manufactured goods and 97.5% of agricultural products that crossed the three nations’ borders. U.S. exports to Mexico increased 500%. The USMCA’s constructive modernizations of NAFTA — the enormous digital economy did not exist in 1994 — are, Toomey says, “mostly taken from the Trans-Pacific Partnership,” which was negotiated by the Obama administration, and for that reason was anathema to Donald Trump. His scrapping of the TPP was a gift to China … And the provision that the USMCA expires in 16 years is, Toomey says, “designed to have a chilling effect on investment."
Energy independence is your biggest joke. Oil use dropped by more than 30% because of the pandemic. This massively reduced demand made it possible for local production to satisfy need — energy independence! We could be oil independent if the oil companies wanted that to happen. They’re sitting on thousands of leases and the administration cancelled a lease auction because no one showed up.
Maybe you were disappointed, no one else though
That tired nonsense about the energy independence/Keystone pipeline is just that, tired nonsense
Which would be surprising since it normally doesn’t blanket Canada like Canada smoke is currently blanketing large swaths of the USA.
Poor baby brother up north …. Always looking for attention from your big brother. Sending mass quantities of choking smoke is not the best way to accomplish that.
I'd give you an F-
We put extra postage on the package. As to the Anemoi, Canada has no control over them.
Further invalidating your previous claim.
No worries though, we have become accustom to our little brother to the north’s sophomoric actions and claims.
Still waiting ...
Are any of these high profile publicity trials scheduled to begin in the 21st century?
The biggest thing accomplished so far has been to give Republican challengers an advantage. It's becoming less likely every day that Biden will be running against Trump. And that means Biden loses.
And that is what they fear the most.
After seeing Biden stumble completely clueless around Fort Liberty the other day, only an idiot would vote for him.
The GOP's failure to detach from Trump and, instead, make it likely that he will be the nominee, is going to cause people to hold their noses and vote for Biden.
The GOP's failure to deliver someone other than Trump will substantially help Biden.
It's a helluva note that Biden got what he wanted and it could blow up in his face. Right now Biden commenting on Trump would unleash a firestorm of scrutiny over Biden's past. And now that Biden can't talk about Trump, he doesn't have anything to say.
Democrats' high horse just lost its legs. The situation has gotten to the point that Republicans don't want revenge, they want a reckoning.
And exactly what does that have with a geriatric shit bumbling around a military installation?
Explaining the obvious (yet again) to you.
You ~~ emotionally ~~ expressed your disdain for Biden and declared all who would vote for him 'idiots'.
I then pointed out that people like you who continually defend Trump and refuse to acknowledge any wrongdoing give Trump his power and enable him to potentially win the GOP nomination.
If Trump wins the GOP nomination, he will drive people who would otherwise NOT vote for Biden to do so given Biden would be (yet again) the only viable alternative to Trump. A Trump nomination would also cause many who would vote GOP to simply not do so (no vote at all ... or third party principle vote).
See? You contribute to a potential Biden reelection.
That's a long winded and round about way to say it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said.
Read the actual indictment. Did you see Biden or Pence engaging in the behavior that has caused Trump to be indicted? They cooperated. Trump lied, deflected, etc. in a general refusal to fully cooperate.
Read ... comprehend ... and maybe consider ceasing the penning of utterly foolish comments in a feeble attempt to defend Trump.
Still has noting to do with what I said.
I would explain it but I do not see how the connection can be made clearer than what I have already written.
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Time to stop with the witless trolling, Jeremy. If you have something of value to offer then do so. If not, I suggest you cease with your pointless quips.
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"We don't have a Marc Antony."
'We' have a wannabe.
More like Caligula?
He's been a martyr for years.
"They're" going to make him an inmate.
At their peril.
Do digress ...
Didn't Michael Byrd teach us how to deal with insurrectionists?
Aw, Ashli wasn't one of those antifa characters whose death you would have applauded.
Something tells me Byrd wouldn't have pulled the trigger on an antifa thug.
Your thoughts?
Seems Babbitt showed us what not to do, additionally, the DOJ showed us how to deal with insurrectionists.
make my day...
That is what the King called the American's who revolted.
You see, It's in the eye of the beholder
I've learned not to listen to what 'something', a Muse without a name, tells me.
Not a good way to learn.
It's the best way ... you will learn that eventually.
And not pertinent to 1/6.
The eye of the beholder on 1/6 said they were insurrectionists and the following guilty verdicts and prison sentences validate that view.
didn't the revolution teach us how to deal with oligarchs?
didn't the civil war teach us how to deal with white supremacists?
didn't WWII teach us how to deal with fascists?
Everything is pertinent until 11:00 AM
The eye of the beholder on 1/6 said they were insurrectionists and the following guilty verdicts and prison sentences validate that view.
Do you believe in the Constitution?
Evidently not.
didn't the civil war teach us how to deal with white supremacists?
The war was fought over sovereignty & slavery. Learn your history.
didn't WWII teach us how to deal with fascists?
We were attacked by Imperial Japan. Learn your history
And stop your trolling.
It seems that somebody's only objective was to get me to comment on Jan 6th.
He didn't stick around to answer the real questions about the right to a speedy trial.
Do you?
the redacted one, apparently...
... and the ear, he must scare himself.
Well, we tried, but their off spring still call themselves democrats.
lol
They're still arresting those involved in the failed coup/insurrection - it's in the thousands now, they just arrested some two bit actor - his name is Jay Johnston, I think. Directly involved in the '3 hour tour' of the Capitol that day
I watched that this morning and couldn't stop laughing. mark put all his eggs in the trump basket, and then fell down the stairs with it. too bad...
I thought you were in a different time zone? You were here at 6: AM EST.
I'm getting up earlier now, to give you the late mornings and afternoons off. thanks for noticing...
Me too, just like the farmer who wants to take the day off and get a full day of it in.
It wouldn't be that all those little schemes failed?
Life long students don't count.
they've worked almost every day this year, so far...
Not really. This thread is proof.
I'm having fun so far, [removed]
There will be a little discussion on this later.
I know exactly where wimpish online threats can be stored until then...
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Good for you........................
now that does sound like something that would come from someone who posts multiple "we got Trump THIS time" articles.
You won't be involved in that discussion.
That comment is "Wimpy Wimpy Wimpy!"
Perfectly fits your little cartoon picture then, huh?
my apologies, I thought you inferred I was the topic...
another apt description of your posts.
Right down to the spelling error. One would think that a once over is due prior to posting..................but when you are in a hurry to "gotcha" someone, time is of the essence LOL
I caught that too!
pretty funny!
let me know when you begin to exhibit some.
No, that's not him. [Deleted]
shouldn't you be asking the guy that's making the threats?
Just about every word - complete projection, deflection, and denial and trump di.. sucking syndrome from Levin and Hannity- you can bet he did 'sell secrets to the enemy'
sell? all anybody had to do was wander into the mar-a-lardo bathroom, ballroom, or store room and look in a box...
so the shithead was just giving them away
Conjecture, guesswork, projections and predictions are not facts.
No, this is not the final chapter for Trump because Trump still faces additional indictments in Georgia for election interference and ultimately in Washington DC for January 6th. Trump should cut a deal to plead guilty, drop out and go into foreign exile. Otherwise, he goes to jail. He must not ever be allowed to hold any public office again! But, since the gop serms intent upon nominating Trump again Biden will just have to whoop his butt, again!
Drop out of the Presidential race?
On that I agree.
Trump is electoral poison for gop in '24!
People with your mindset may have changed all that. As I said above, this fools nobody.
it'll be fun watching trump hold campaign rallies on various courthouse steps, in between court appearances.
Isn't that the idea?
Does anyone know why we let a president try to prosecute his opponent?
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I hear that's the current yarn but it 'oddly' conflicts with the yarn that he is incompetent. You should take some knitting lessons from Madame DeFarge.
Instead I've taken lessons from the mob, that the people of France are now suddely ashamed of.
Yet, America's real shame today is still Trump's January 6th Insurrection Mob!
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I suspect Trump is a current candidate because of arguments like you just attempted to make. It is more a defensive move than anything else.
Defensive?
You better just hope he is found guilty or the trial goes beyond the election.
Yes, defensive. Do I really need to break this down for you?
If he is found guilty then that might (possibly) take him out of the nomination slot (and that would be a good thing for the nation).
If the trial goes beyond the election then that will likely ensure the GOP is stuck again with Trump as their nominee (bad for the GOP and bad for the nation).
I don't believe any of these charges if found guilty would prevent him from running for the presidency. And the free publicity of this will keep his face in front of the public and you can be sure he will use this publicity to the best of his ability. He did that in the 2016 election.
And that's the problem as I see it. Even this does nothing to stop him from running and it gives him a lot of publicity to use. I really don't know what it could mean for the general but I do not see this as hurting him much in the primary and IMO as the optics of this are so bad will any Independents (and potentially Democrats who just do not want Biden) look on this as just another attempt to "get Trump"?
Afraid I don't hold out much hope for the '24 presidential elections.
I think he can still run, my 'possibly' qualification is referring to him losing support for the nomination.
Yes this is why mere indictments (and threats of same) serve to help Trump. I see this harming Trump only if he is convicted. And then, as noted, it is not certainty that this would ruin his chances for the nomination.
The GOP is dysfunctional and confused.
That’s because Hillary was careless with classified info and Trump rightfully pointed that out.
Oh, boy....
Here we go again with the obtuse "you are defending Trump" shtick.
Very boring.
Speaking of obtuse, you clearly have no idea what we were talking about.
The defensive move I was speaking of was that of Trump. I was suggesting that Trump's candidacy is a defensive move on his part.
trump and his sycophants are hoping his premature candidacy announcement will still save him...
Yeah. I worry that this will help to solidify his nomination rather than cause him to lose support. While Republican leadership so far has been kind of quiet (yeah not fully silent but also not hitting it hard) the rank & file has been lining up behind him. But I want to see polling as this moves forward.
While that comment was from another of your posts I also wanted to include it. What a can of worms it would open up should Trump be convicted and yet still win the general election. And should he actually win the election, I believe that the needs of the office would outweigh the needs of the prison sentence and he would be moved to Washington to assume duties while his prison sentence would be held in abeyance. If his first act is to pardon himself do we end up with a Constitutional crisis? From what I read there's nothing in this indictment that prevents Trump from running in 24 even if convicted and in prison.
Time will tell where this all goes, this is all new territory for everybody.
Except for the fact that neither of them were currently the President, they were both candidates for that office.
I agree that Hillary was careless by using her personal email server. Apparently, there was a lot of carelessness going on by several people regarding secret docs. Do you think that taking boxes of top secret documents home with you might be called careless too?
So... While campaigning for President he promised to prosecute his opponent but after he was elected he did nothing about it?
So he was yet another presidential candidate who made promises while campaigning and then didn't follow thru with the promise.
Guess I miss your point. Maybe you could make one?
I guess you missed the 3 year investigation of Clinton's email problem by the State Department after he became President. Courts aren't voters. You have to prove your allegations.
You've taken lessons from the mob - you mean the former 'president'?
Prove his allegations? Fat chance of that.
All some do here is defend the indefensible.
It could indeed ... especially prior to any conviction and certainly if found not guilty.
Yes, it is my understanding that he could indeed by sworn in as PotUS even if convicted. Certainly the CotUS does not prevent that since it only requires the PotUS to be a natural-born citizen, 35+ years old and a resident of the USA for 14+ years.
The recourse is impeachment and conviction.
That’s fake news. It’s speaks volumes you have to make things up to defend your claim.
You want to make a point and maybe stick with it?
This started because you responded to Vic in 8.1.16 with
So I responded that your citation was wrong as neither one of them were currently president, they were both running for the office at the time.
So your response in acknowledgement that you were wrong was
And now you shift the goal posts again with this?
Looks like you fail in comprehension. Nowhere in any of my comments did I make any allegations. Care to try again?
Maybe you can do a better job than he did up there. Where are the allegations I'm being accused of making?
Oh and by the way, you really need some new snark. You've repeated this line so many times now it's all but worn out, old and tired.
With Washington as fucked up and divided as it is? I think we have a better chance of aliens landing on Earth and wiping out all of humanity.
oh damn, me and my active imagination. Just had an even worse thought than aliens landing and wiping out humanity. Trump hasn't picked a running mate yet. What if he wins, gets impeached and convicted so his VP takes over, but he had picked Kari Lake to be his running mate? Having watched her over the '22 elections, I believe I would root for the aliens... oy
If Trump is guilty and somehow (extremely unlikely) wins the presidency, then it would be up to the GOP to correct the situation. It takes a 2/3 majority in the Senate to convict.
Is conviction of a federal crime enough to break the GOP out of its funk? Based on what I have seen these past few years, I am not so sure.
Very much akin to the problem the Ds have with Harris as V.P.
That's why I said I might be rooting for the aliens.
Agreed.
They may be, but not as careless as spreading them all over the northeast in non secure locations and next to your corvette in an non secure garage,
Without a doubt. I think that trump should be convicted of obstruction of justice, revealing contents while showing off, instructing his aide to help hide the evidence, etc,
What’s your point, that Trump lies - Shocker.
One part of the public will do everything it can (kind of like we see now) this very situation. We've seen federal agencies cover for one administration and ignore policy and procedure to go after another.
The current administration needs to pay very close attention to this situation. Like it or not, what we are seeing now can (and hopefully) will happen to them.
I hope you are right, but I don't know if the country can ever recover.
It's going to be a long road to recovery from this. This goes back several administrations. There are going to be several "speed bumps" to ensure that any inquiry into any of these are done by a disinterested group of investigators free from political influence (you know, the opposite of what we are seeing now).
We are talking about almost all the agencies of government being deeply corrupted and an FBI weaponized against the American people.
How do we overcome?
By demeaning your nation of course, it's so unifying.
That seems to have become your job. You have enough to worry about up there.
Unlike you, I actually like american exceptionalists of all stripes ... you of course are an exception.
That is the question of the day.
Of course, the naïve scenario is proffered.
If Trump had found classified documents and willingly cooperated with NARA for their safe return, he would have had no issue. He did not do that. Worse, I am confident that the evidence will show that he treated them as braggadocio trophies and willingly compromised national security. No comparison with the actions of Biden and Pence.
There is an extremely good chance that the charges in this case will be upheld by the evidence.
Don't you think Biden and the Ds in general would prefer to run against Trump in the general? I suppose it is possible that they are viewing this (politically) as martyring Trump and in that case (if true) it would indeed help because it makes it more likely that the GOP will again further embrace the Trump parasite, further tarnish its reputation by nominating Trump, and lose the general.
This does help the Ds politically in the sense that it further tarnishes the GOP by having one its former PotUS' be the first in history to be federally indicted (and likely convicted). And GOP members will fall on their swords scrambling to defend this miserable human being.
There is an extremely good chance the special council team has bullet proof evidence backed up by eye witness testimony.
How do you know that? The indictment hasn't been made public. All we have is media accounts.
You better hope the charges are upheld. If this decision comes in before the election and Trump is acquitted you'll have a big problem.
Late night comedian source?
Because the stakes are incredibly high here Vic. This is a historic event with severe political consequences. It is quite unlikely that the legal minds behind the indictment would play fast and loose in this situation.
Why do you doubt that they have solid evidence and a solid case to justify indicting a former PotUS?
Why would I have a big problem? The problem I (personally) have is Trump consuming the nomination slot and thus preventing the GOP from providing a choice for the electorate.
Federal indictments are 99% successful including guilty pleas and convictions...
conspiracy = more than 1 person. somebody inside squealed. bummer...
92%+ (actually) but why are you replying to me? Vic and Texan are the ones who needs to factor this in since they apparently are unaware of how serious a federal indictment is and why with such high stakes the prosecutors will be extra certain to prevail before indicting a former PotUS.
please leave me out of your fantasy.
you don't have a fucking clue what I am aware of or know.
When you write a post, we all get a 'fucking clue' of what you know and the logic you employ.
[deleted]
pretty color!
Count me in, mystery loves company.
Here, let me help you cease your feeble trolling:
Do you think that a federal indictment of a former PotUS would be issued if the government did not believe it had a rock solid case and unimpeachable evidence?
This is a question of logic and common sense. What is your opinion?
yes is the answer.
see how easy it was instead of assuming shit you had zero evidence of?
I am sure you are included if you want to be.
LOL
So you think the federal government would issue an indictment of a former PotUS without a rock solid case and unimpeachable evidence.
Yes, I did wrongly assume that your common sense would hold that this indictment is very likely the result of the government concluding that it would prevail due to a rock solid case and unimpeachable evidence.
I did assume you would recognize that indicting a former PotUS would be taken very seriously by the prosecution and that they would be extremely careful before issuing an indictment.
jeez i said yes to your question. please read.
You answered 'yes'. Is my post @10.2.15 reflecting your answer of 'yes'? (The answer is: yes indeed, it reflects that.)
please spare me this trifling parsing.
TBF, even if they believe they have a rock solid case it does not mean they actually do.
We're talking about government employees, after all.
All it will take is 1 person to hang the Jury, Musk is already blowing up twitter with comments about 2 tiered justice.
you assumed something not in evidence which isn't my problem.
Of course not, Jack. I made no statement of certainly. I stated that given the circumstance, it is extremely likely they believe they have a rock solid case with unimpeachable evidence.
What do you think? What —in your opinion— is the probability (roughly) that the government indicted a former PotUS (historic) with anything other than what they believe is a rock solid case?
And if you hold that they believe in their case, given the stakes at play in indicting a former PotUS and a current candidate for PotUS with all the crazy partisan politics at play, what it the likelihood that they have not done due diligence to ensure their beliefs in their case are well-founded?
Yes, I assumed that your common sense would hold that this indictment is very likely the result of the government concluding that it would prevail due to a rock solid case and unimpeachable evidence.
I gave more credit than was (apparently) due.
maybe not assuming what isn't written would be beneficial.
You do understand that what I 'assumed' was commonsense on your part, right? Go ahead and argue that this was not in evidence ... I will not seek to prove you wrong.
I understand you assumed something based on one single post which had nothing to do with what you posted to me.
I think you're asking the wrong questions.
The questions that matter now are 1) Will they be able to get a conviction? ... and... if not... 2) What impact will the proceedings have on his campaign?
Ah, das Musk, I hear he has plans to piss off all sides by pissing off all sides. Some pushin, pullout ... repeat if necessary stuff. He's invited Rachel Maddow and Jack Lemon to follow Tucker.
Ummmm Jack is dead. I think you meant Don............like your link specifies.......
I liked my questions. I like those you added as well.
Have you no opinion on my or your questions?
Don's alive?
Great point! I cant wait to hear who the other/others are.
Not really, no.
As we've have discussed many times, I'm more of the "wait and see how it unfolds" mindset. And while this is certainly an interesting and landmark development, there is still a lot to wait for.
You and @johnrussell and I have talked over the past months with my point remaining a constant "if he has committed a crime, then charge him, if not, then stop the hysteria".
Well he's been charged. Now it gets real. It's not some set of blowhard politicians with zero accountability carefully selecting only the information they want you to see. Now it matters. I'm very interested to see what they can prove.
I confess in the overall scheme of Trump shit-housery, these are not the crimes I thought we would see. I guess I just assumed it would be fraud or election-interference.
The Big Lie events are what are truly important. This is important, but the damaging precedent set by the Big Lie events can only be countered by holding Trump accountable.
None of this seems to be about the election. It all seems to be about keeping documents he wasn't supposed to keep.
Correct, this is about the documents. The election related indictments would be a distinct matter.
Not going to happen. For all the comments from Garland and Smith about no one being above the law trump will never do time. Not going to happen.
You could very well be correct.
It's interesting that we still don't have any movement on that, despite it predating the documents being discovered by a few months.
It is sad.
So we have to wonder what the implications of that eventuality are for the election next year.
I think Trump is the only Republican Biden can beat. So if they don't get a conviction, how big a boost is that for Teflon Don? Or are people just fed up enough with the drama that they're ready to move on (like in 2000)?
Or, are we finally going to get charges in connection with Jan 6? That seems incredibly unlikely at this stage.
here you go, it's the unsealed indictment. read it like I did, then we can talk...
With all the evidence against him, it will be a struggle to keep him from being imprisoned. Imagine that.
What is weird to me is we never hear what if anything the government has done to stop it all.
We all argue abouts degrees that people are guilty, Biden, Trump, Pence...
So it has been going on yet we never hear if they put any implementation in place to end it happening.
At least I haven't heard anything.
By "it" do you mean the casual behavior toward classified documents?
That's a good point. I haven't heard anything either. You would think that with all that's gone on over the last 6-7 years or so, somebody would be tightening things up by now.
Someone should do an investigative report on that.
What has the government done in the aftermath of all the document scandals...
Haha
How is it possible that the source is a late night comedian when there is a writer's strike going on and all the late night comedians (all Democrats) and decent people - are supporting the strikers? And not airing any new episodes since the strike started????????????????
He could very well be convicted but I doubt he'll ever do any time.
Maybe, if Biden indeed runs again.
There is a Dem that has thrown his hat in the ring. So popular I can't even think of his name right now. He didn't sound all that bad really though.
losers like the former 'president' expect unflinching and complete loyalty from his supporters/enablers yet is loyal to no one but himself
Cornell West is too far left.
Marianne Williamson is a nut.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is too far left also. He's a brilliant man but has a lot of baggage, particularly his anti-vax views.
All too true.
Kennedy sealed his fate when he actually went to the border (are you listening, Kamala?) and then had the sheer audacity to tell the truth about the Biden Administration's terrible handling of the border crisis.
That like the kiss of death.
I don't consider RFK, Jr. to be on the left - just a whackjob claiming to be leftist to give us a bad name,
But I agree with you, all bad choices
Why would any of that matter to anyone who uses comedians for their primary news source?
The fact that they haven't had any episodes to use as an alleged 'news source' and that said comedians are actually a far more accurate source (what they say aren't all lies unlike far/alt 'right' 'news' 'sources') of information on current events WHEN THEY ARE ACTUALLY ON AIR AND NOT SUPPORTING THE WRITERS' STRIKE PLUS anyone with any sense whatsoever knows that LIBERAL/DEMOCRAT/PROGRESSIVE = FACTS/REALITY/TRUTH
A life-long Democrat who comes from one of the most prominent Democratic families in history.
No, no way HE could be considered "on the left"!
SMH
Come on, we all know facts don't really matter to some liberals.
I imagine this dickhead is an outcast among the Kennedy's and an embarrassment
Any one with any sense, such as myself, disowns him as a Democrat and a 'leftist'
I see him as a whackjob trying to appeal to whackjobs and he's succeeding
Say no more.
I deal in realities, not imaginative musings.
Is the fact that he dared criticize Joe's ineptness regarding the border the reason he is now not on the left enough for you?
Your typical PD&D
So in your mind ANYone who votes for him has no sense?
Gee, I wonder why he is running as a Democrat instead of a liberal or Republican.
'I deal in realities'
Say no more.
You should come up with a new schtick.
Yes, I do, Thanks for acknowledging that!
Said ABSOLUTELY NO ONE EVER TRUTHFULLY!
he's a fringe whackjob riding on the Kennedy coat tails with no merit or accomplishments, just riding on the Kennedy name and political dynasty - a whackjob who appeals to the fringe
I just love it when Democrats turn on each other to protect Biden!
if he has no accomplishments, is THAT why the Obama Administration considered him for head of the EPA?
That makes sense [deleted]
So embarrassed they let him campaign for Obama, endorsed Hillary, endorsed and campaigned for Gore, and for Edwin Kennedy!
Well, he IS running as a Democrat, so maybe he is just trying to appeal to the base?
Proving once again some of our friends on the left have a bad case of the triple D
Denial, Delusion, Derangement
[Deleted]
Sad, isn't it?
[deleted]
Yep, really sad.
Not turning on anybody. I don't support fringe whackjobs like this guy and his whacko conspiracy theories.
what truth?
Does your spinning make the world go around? Suffering from slings and arrows again?
Come hither and ye shall see the Defenders of Trumpdom brought to their knees.
Hold evidence to the light!
Let the witnesses speak.
Ol' Trump will come fallin' no matter his pleas.
His worshipers scattered, his friends, so he thought,
The very best friends that his money had bought,
Only the dim and slow-witted stood 'round him still,
The duplicitous and deceitful, at one with their shill.
Awesome ! Did you write that ?
Yes I did write that.
It's just nuts, this defense of the indefensible . . .
They won't until they are told to.
Til then it;s defend at all costs.
nicely done
ive been out of the game for a bit, but think i'll a tempt to again be the writer of wrong, cause know not who else to be,besides me.
good to see so many still correcting so many, on what is an actual realty, and not someone's misinterpretation of another's mental masturbation misrepresentation. Again, nicely done.
It is good to see you back, Iggy. Thank you.
He has nothing but defense of the indefensible, it's tiresome
The undying love and eternal blind devotion to trump is a sight to behold.
Meanwhile Biden is boning everyone. Especially your kids and grandkids.
While the Bidenettes happily fiddle away …..
Easily manipulated. A polite way to put it...
it doesn't sound as harsh as fucking stupid...
Some new information - Judge Aileen Cannon ( a Trump appointee) has been assigned to oversee the case -
Wonder how quick a petition is filed to get her to recuse herself...
We'll see soon. There is an argument to be made should should, but she doesn't have to.
That is the same judge that made a mockery of herself and was admonished for being an idiot by the higher courts.
I see them seeking a new judge.
I'm expecting her to attempt a repeat, like the guy that appointed her...
I don't know about mockery, but yes she was overturned by the apelet court on the same document issues. We'll see how she rules in this one.
Prosecution will ask for a new judge, defense will ask for all charges to be dropped... yadda yadda... botta bing.