Trump Faces Major New Charges in Documents Case
Category: News & Politics
Via: hallux • last year • 292 commentsBy: Alan Feuer, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush - NYT
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Federal prosecutors on Thursday added major accusations to an indictment charging former President Donald J. Trump with mishandling classified documents after he left office, saying he told a maintenance worker at Mar-a-Lago that he wanted security camera footage there to be deleted.
The new accusations were revealed in a superseding indictment that named the maintenance worker, Carlos De Oliveira, as a new defendant in the case.
The revised indictment also added three serious charges against Mr. Trump — attempting to “alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal evidence” ; inducing someone else to do so; and a new count, the 32nd, under the Espionage Act stemming from a classified national security document he showed to visitors at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J.
Prosecutors in the office of the special counsel, Jack Smith, had been investigating Mr. De Oliveira for months, concerned by his communications with an information technology expert at Mar-a-Lago, Yuscil Taveras, who oversaw the surveillance camera footage at the property.
The updated indictment said that in late June of last year, Mr. De Oliveira went to see Mr. Taveras — who is identified only as Trump Employee 4 — and told him that “‘the boss’ wanted the server deleted,” referring to the computer server holding the security footage.
“What are we going to do?” the indictment quoted Mr. De Oliveira as saying, after Mr. Taveras objected and said he would not know how and did not think he had the right to do so.
The revised indictment was released on the same day Mr. Trump’s lawyers met in Washington with prosecutors working for Mr. Smith to discuss a so-called target letter that Mr. Trump received this month suggesting that he might soon face a second indictment in a separate case related to his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
Mr. De Oliveira’s lawyer, John Irving, declined to comment.
A statement attributed to “the Trump campaign” with no person’s name attached called the new accusations a “desperate and flailing attempt” by President Biden’s Justice Department.
The original indictment against Mr. Trump was filed last month in Florida and accused him of illegally holding on to 31 individual classified documents containing national defense information. That indictment also charged with Mr. Trump and Walt Nauta, one of his personal aides, with a conspiracy to obstruct the government’s repeated attempts to reclaim the classified material.
Prosecutors accused Mr. Nauta of repeatedly moving boxes in and out of a storage room at Mar-a-Lago in an effort to hide them from investigators. Many of these movements were caught on the surveillance camera footage.
The new charges, which accused Mr. De Oliveira of being part of that conspiracy, lay out in intricate detail efforts by Mr. Nauta to speak with Mr. De Oliveira about the security camera footage and how long the footage was stored after the government sought to obtain it under a subpoena.
The indictment contains an additional charge related to a classified document that Mr. Trump showed two people helping his former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows write a book.
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Oh darn, Trump is in the news again, maybe someone will save us and seed a bitchy article in Metaland.
not today, article quota max already achieved.
My favorite rule!
I stand corrected, there it is, and I've gotten tributes. late to the party again...
that sausage sure does shrink with the heat ...
thanks for the heads up...
now I'm dying to know what you said at the pity party...
the morons are as usual deflecting to the Clintons
Would that be like you deflecting to Trump a little while ago on an article not about Trump?
the standard response now is... "but hunter biden"
I am AOK with them throwing the book at Hunter for owning a gun while being an active drug user, as long as they also go after every other meth and crack smoking, oxy snorting, Xanax and Valium munching, Adderall popping gun owner in America just as harshly!
I don't think Kentucky has that much jail space
They don't. That's the point. Now add in all the pot heads...
I bet 95% were high AF when they purchased their guns and signed the same damn form Hunter did saying they did not consume any drugs that would make them ineligible...
Like all the antidepressants and antipsychotics Bubba takes.
That is what Hunter did. That and he payed 2 yrs taxes late...
Whoop Dee Doo! Nail Him Up! And, his dad the President, too!
hunter didn't pay his taxes when due.
The legally predicated IRS, JUSTICE DEPT. AND CONGRESS INVESTIGATIONS INTO Hunter continue.
Joe Biden has already been caught in lies about the mess.
Yet Hunter paid all his past due taxes after a thorough audit and years long investigation and the IRS closed his case. Meanwhile, Trump is on trial for actual criminal tax fraud in New York where his attorney and accountant already went to prison and his business was already convicted of civil fraud. Get a sense of proportion!
I thought that his sugar brother, Kevin Morris, the Hollywood attorney paid Hunter's taxes.
And you would be correct.
You may choose to believe that crap but I will stick with the facts.
Hunter didn't pay shit, his sugar bro paid it off FOR him.
At least get the damn basics right.
Trump indicted again. Oh, must be a day ending in Y.
Working on it best I can - already posted 3 non-political articles on the Front (Home) Page today.
Or accuse one of being a hater or having TDS. You would think after all this time that they could come up with something better than that or at least not so far off base.
So, more charges against Trump, he will be on TV whining how he is being picked on and summon a call for more donations from the lemmings to stuff his coffers.
another trip to the bottomless well of maga suckers...
trump's con job is reaching biblical proportions...
Well, I just want to point out.......wait a minute...
this article is two weeks old!
Have fun.
[removed]
Jack Smith is going after the millions that the former 'president' turd and his willing dupes have contributed to his 'stop the steal 'presidential' campaign
I can't wait for the indictments from Georgia!
Plenty of dogwhistling over in RWNJ land.
no humans will sleep with them.
and it makes the dogs mean...
... and sexually frustrated.
Lock him up and throw away the key. After a while no one will be talking about him any more.
of course they will.
hard to quit the focus of some people's lives.
american history is so boring, especially while it's happening around us and the gullible/seditious are on the wrong side of it. /s
I have every confidence you will still be talking about Trump years from now.
we got decades of mileage off nixon, and he seems like an altar boy compared to trump...
thanks rwnj's!
yeah I know some liberals have short attention spans and can only focus on one thing at a time
Would you consider the treatment of Trump in the documents case to be fair or unfair?
yeah I know some republicans have alt-patriotism...
only in some deluded liberal minds
A question wholly unrelated to my post.
count 32
he's going to the courthouse and he's going to be convicted...
ok?
AND?
Once again, you run from a direct, easy-to-understand question about the topic to which you are ostensibly contributing.
Maybe one day you will ask me something even remotely related to one of my posts.
Maybe......................but doubtful.
your answers then, will be identical to now...
Just an invite down the rabbit hole.
Even Charlie Manson was ignored after awhile.
We've heard that for 7 years now and you all have been wrong for 7 years now. Time to come up with something a bit more convincing.
You used to love talking about Trump back when he invented the coronavirus vaccine. The Trump vaccine.
what an asinine post detailing shit I never once have said or claimed.
Defending the indefensible and PD&D plus delusion seem to be the focus of some peoples lives
what an antivax type of comment...
Your comment is a perfect example of inanity.
Thank you.
[deleted]
Projection
Yes because as we all know, this accuser has to be telling the truth.
Right?
bummer, huh?
Is it your opinion that the charges against Trump in the documents case (reference the indictment) are bogus and unevidenced?
My “opinion” is pretty clear and speaks to the accuser in this article. No one here knows if his testimony is believable or if he is lying. Not me, not you, not anyone on NTers. Unless of course they are working the case.
And yet many here automatically believe him. A clear symptom of TDS.
Still innocent until proven guilty in this country. Even for Trump. Clearly not on NTers though. Not for the TDS ridden.
You immediately go off on a tangent about other people simply believing the witness, TDS, innocent until proven guilty, yada, yada.
I asked if you think the charges in the documents case are bogus and unfair.
The net of your answer is (it would seem): "I do not know if the charges are fair".
My opinion is that the charges against Trump are believable given what we know and the legal wording of the law (i.e. 18 U.S.C. 793, 18 U.S.C. § 1512, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, and 18 U.S.C. § 1001).
So at this point I think Trump is being treated fairly and that charges thus far do not seem bogus (invented, inflated, etc.).
We will of course know more as the trial ensues. Trump will likely get a trial that gives him deference ... better treatment than what the average citizen would receive ... and a verdict will determine the conclusion of this case. In the meantime, those interested in discussion will observe and opine while others will deflect to tangents about TDS, etc.
Lol …. I went off on tangent? I simply clarified what I posted. Meanwhile you responded by … going off on a tangent. Amazing and SOSDD considering.
Yes because as we all know. There are no innocent people in prison. The DOJ never gets it wrong. Especially when it comes to Trump. /s
My opinion is that you can’t make a reasonable judgement with what little information you have and yet. You still do. And with confidence.
Of course you do. Meanwhile Bidens case gets slow rolled and we hear nothing from our resident legal experts here about that
I rest my case. Not that any of the TDS ridden “tangents” here are capable of making the connection.
I did not even remotely suggest that our system is perfect. What I wrote is that this case seems logical given what we know compared to the specific charges and the underlying law associated with each charge.
I (obviously) was referring to this specific case, not the justice system in general.
Given you are deflecting/arguing, you apparently believe these are bogus charges after all. So make your case. What charges are bogus and why?
And if you do not consider them bogus then you agree with me.
can't/won't
Exactly. It seems in lieu of facts too many people just make shit up to promote their narrative.
You act as though Trump’s actions are unknown (he has supplied much of the info with his careless talk). And you can read the detailed indictment.
Do you think the indictment is bogus? If so, make an argument.
That's pretty much 100% spot on.
Add to that idea the fact that in America we are ALL still innocent until proven guilty, even if the "we" in question is a giant orange bastard with no character and no filter about it.
I never said you did.
With comments like that, you would not make a very good juror. Proffering preconceived notions like that with so little information. Your biases are most definitely showing.
So was I …. obviously. Determining the veracity of the person who’s testimony is the basis of the charges, is the case.
Lol …. Not even a nice try. I’ve been very clear here what my opinion is. See my previous posts but “we” don’t have enough information to make a sound, legal determination. But perhaps it’s just me. I’m fresh off four days of jury duty last week and perhaps I’m still channeling my inner juror.
I agree with you at times but this isn’t one of them. If you don’t know my opinion by now you will never make the connection.
I’ll leave it at that ….. best of luck spinning it from here ….
All Trump accusers are telling the truth.
And there it is.
Thanks for being honest.
Said nobody with a functioning brain.
[PD&D] plus delusion and defense of the indefensible seem to be all some have.
[Tessy, the comments you flagged below, using the same abbreviations you used here, will stand. Please stop flagging behavior in which you are engaging.]
Wouldn’t that be PDD&D or PDDD&DI?
I think the correct way is PDD&D++
Do you think Biden should be charged under the same statutes being that he had classified materials dating back to when he was a Senator....in other words.....never having the legal right to have those documents?
false equivalency.
Thanks, it getting so hard to keep up with alphabet soup.
BTW...this is a yes or no question.
No three paragraph rant needed.
So you think it's OK for a senator/ Vice president to have up to thousands of classified information hidden away in various locations around the country, including in the garage where a crack head son with questionable relationships with other countries lived?
Or you simply just don't care?
No, because those statutes are all predicated on intent. To charge Biden, one would need a case that shows he willingly and knowingly held classified material. Thus far, that would be a stretch.
Do you really not see how the Trump case is fundamentally different from those of Biden or Pence?
In short, stated again, duration has nothing to do with the law here. The law focuses on intent. Trump provably knew he had those documents and willfully tried to prevent their return. On top of that, it appears he willingly disclosed contents to at least one unauthorized individual.
There have to be far more than 'at least one' as far as I'm concerned.
And the proof of this is? Or is the fact they are saying something against Trump proof enough?
proof?
they don't need no stinking proof!
Of course it is not ‘okay’. It is wrong because it compromises national security.
The right thing to do is to immediately work to secure documents when discovered and to then preemptively look for other classified documents.
This is exactly what Biden and Pence did and is also the opposite of what Trump did.
seriously? exaggerate much? maybe mike pence needs a second look...
That is good since they rarely if ever have any
"Have you stopped beating your wife?" is also a yes-or-no question.
Of course he does. So what?
Nothing has been made up. Like TiG said, he's provided, and his enablers/supporters, much pf the evidence himself.
What is the value of faux obtuseness? What good is accomplished by making oneself look foolish?
They crave the spotlight, regardless of the quality of the light. Being seen as an asshole is still a form of being seen.
OK...have you?
Given I answered your question, what point were you trying to make?
Given that my question in .35 was not to you directly, what even respond to it.
You had to have a white hot spotlight
The truth you mean.
I try not to be mean. How about you?
I see no evidence of that.
Bias is funny that way, like a pair of blinders.
You had no point to make @3.2.22 (the context)?
If you are concerned about 3.2.22, why did you respond to 3.2.25?
I think to some leftists, this will trigger them to think Billy Joel espouses white supremacy.
I am encouraging you to actually contribute instead of trolling.
Well, he is from NY.
Does the shoe fit?
No, I’m from Ohio.
There have been I believe at least 3 incidents revealed so far, so you just know there are many more.
How much info. has he given to putin over the years?
That's perfect Bob! Just perfect. And the truth.
give it up. the lost cause of lost causes...
that's funny and so very, very true
I blame medicare for sustaining the maga plague of some 50's relics ...
meh, the next pandemic will carve off another big slice of the anti-vax party...
... insurrectionist party.
domestic terrorist party...
... and the hits just keep coming. LOL...
Once they convict him of a crime, yes.
When one is a billionaire, one doesn't often get convicted.
It's about time that his dad's billions won't help him out anymore.
Trump has finally gotten in over his head.
Fred Trump was never a billionaire.
There are very very few billionaires and they all have a lot to lose if they commit a crime. The sample is too small and too skewed to allow accurate conclusions. I'm not sure the math on that works out
I don't think his father was a billionaire. Then again, we're not actually sure he is either.
It's certainly wouldn't be the first time. I guess I'm the only one who remembers the USFL.
I doubt that. The very rich can buy whatever laws they need. Not to mention cops, prosecutors, judges.....
Almost worked for Hunter Biden until a judge asked a simple question and the whole deal fell apart!
By definition, a billionaire has a lot to lose.
... and can afford to lose it. Trump has lost multiple fortunes... but claims to still have billions. John Doe cannot afford to lose anything at all. Who's in worse posture?
I heard on the news this morning that Trump has spent 40 million dollars of other people's money (from small campaign donors primarily) defending himself in court in his various current civil and criminal cases.
From today's Wash Post:
The best snake oil salesman ever.
Isn't that against the law? Using 'campaign funds' for his legal defense?
Only braindead morns buy his 'product'
only braindead morons buy his 'product'
… needs gullible people who buy his bullshit.
Forty million gogos.
You need to ask a lawyer specializing in campaign finance law.
Some folks really like media creations and the Establishment isn't as popular as it used to be.
It's not the money. Billionaires have very nice lifestyles. Not so if they are incarcerated.
There us a reason poor people commit crimes at much higher rates. The risk to benefit ratio is very different.
Also the former 'president' raised close to $250 million over his false claims that they "needed the money to fight to reverse election fraud even though the big fat lying fuck lying turd had been told repeatedly that there was no evidence to back up those fraud claims."
It turns out THAT'S ILLEGAL
Rich people's crimes are less blatant than armed robbery... but financial and environmental crimes are rich people's doing.
Just the left. You know. Like you all do now.
no rug available to sweep that POS under...
don't need it the way the left brings him up at every opportunity. The article could be about artichokes and you all will mention him. He's your obsession.
looks like the next 16 months could be pretty hard on the maga super patriots...
As long as that career criminal is running for president, we'll be on him like stink on shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same worn out statement.
How's proof of that working out for you? 7 years with very little restrictions on what is being investigated and 7 years of coming up empty handed.
It is ridiculous what we have to put up with on this site.
One of Trump's own ex-lawyers, Ty Cobb, said yesterday that the new evidence against Trump in the documents case is "overwhelming". Overwhelming evidence indicates wrong doing, whether there ever is a conviction or not. The same will apply to the Jan 6th case when that indictment is announced soon. These prosecutors will not bring a case against Trump that is not overflowing with proof of wrongdoing. Yet, the same clowns in MAGA land will be saying "where is the proof". Whatever happened to good old fashioned embarrassment?
The evidence against Donald Trump that was proof enough to induce multiple federal grand juries to vote over seventy federal felony criminal indictments against Trump, for which Trump is awaiting trial? And, more indictments are coming!
More talking points. When you actually have something you can substantiate, we'll talk.
If he's an ex-lawyer how does he know the new evidence? Was he in the meeting with the current laywers? Or is he just talking about what has been presented by our oh so honest media? I would be careful of trusting the word of someone who's knowledge is based on what he can read in main-stream media.
I still think any charges for Jan 6th will be difficult as don't you also need to prove intent for that? I always said that I felt the obstruction charges were the strongest case against Trump. I don't think the NY case will go anywhere and I'm still waiting on Georgia to make charges.
He probably read the new 45 page indictment.
The Clintons are at well over four decades of inquiries by both law enforcement and reporters, with nothing foind. Do you therefore consider them guiltless?
except for numerous moral and legal missteps.
As opposed to the one who replaced him? Yeah right, just like conservatives will be on him! I look at Biden and I am reminded of Richard Nixon and his famous phrase, "I am not a crook!". Sadly, yes Biden is.
7 years, still no proof...
It is almost impossible to believe that given the facts made public, anyone could possibly believe that Hunter wasn't selling access to joe and foreigners were willing to spend millions to get that access.
It defies credibility.
James Roosevelt, FDR oldest son, made a bundle off of his access to Dad. Joe Kennedy Sr. aided him in multiple, questionable endeavors.
It most certainly does.
I would hate myself if I was that gullible, but to each their own, I suppose.
Some will learn while some will continue their beliefs regardless.
Yes, and John and Abigail Adams' younger son Charles Adams the alcoholic degenerate gambler, failed financial speculator and the original deadbeat dad was similarly accused, also...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Adams_(1770%E2%80%931800)
So do you think Hunter Biden selling influence and access to his father was just following tradition?
LOL!
And the Bush girls drank alcohol in college.
Hunters only crimes were paying his taxes late and not admitting he had a drug addiction on a federal form...
It stinks when people like the Supreme Court Justice's wives, Congressmen's kids, Hunter and THE TRUMPS personally profit from their access to power, but it is not illegal...
The scandal though was the fake ids and being underage. Would Jenna be hosting Good Morning America if for not?
Bullshit. Hunter STILL hasn't registered under FARA requirements.
Hunter sold access to his father. The whole Biden Family collected millions in foreign money for that access.
Denial is futile and rather silly at this point.
Why do YOU think Hunter's name was drawn at random from a pool of crackhead lawyers some foreigners decided to rain millions on?
You can't defend this bullshit because you can't even see anything wrong!
Over forty years for roughly nothing... compared with two impeachments and dozens of indictments in four years.
"Lock her up!"
Exactly, they received the millions because Hunter's business accumm was widely respected.
It’s funny watching avid gun control advocates, make excuses when liberals break gun control laws.
Lying on an ATF gun purchase form #4473 is a felony. Punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
But I mean no biggie, it’s a Biden ….. right?
How gullible must one be to think Hunter Biden was hired by foreigners for his legal expertise?
How many multi-million-dollar companies or how many governments are in the habit of paying a crackhead millions for his mere existence?
Now you are just babbling and making foolish unfounded reckless accusations without proof. Joe and Jill Biden's taxes are public going back twenty years. Never has any proof been produced that he had any unreported income or personally profited from any illegal activity, UNLIKE TRUMP! You should be ashamed!
The attention paid to Hunter, and the blind eye turned to Don Jr, Eric, and the Kushners.
Cognitive dissonance.......
My, my, are you denying ALL the crap written on these forums over the years?
LMMFAO!
Pure ignorant statement.
Are you really accusing the President of the United States of America, your Commander In Chief of cheating on his taxes?
Roughly
Free to live in her little, wealthy white enclave:
The FUCK I am.
Have you listened to the news or read a paper lately?
Do you not acknowledge the fact that the Biden Family has benefitted from millions in foreign money?
One question not a single damn Biden sycophant has been able to answer:
WTF did any of the Bidens do to get foreigners to rain millions on them?
While we all know Biden is a complete fuck up, I don't know if his handlers are dumb enough to make him declare illegal income on his taxes. That is a stupid, ignorant argument.
I am ashamed that so many are willing to overlook anything a Biden does.
Joe does love his useful idiots.
Who the fuck is this "Biden Family"? Are you talking about Ed and Emma Biden who own the Hyundai dealership in Gotebo Oklahoma. They do millions in foreign business. Is it illegal to engage in the import and export business now? All of your nameless baseless wildass accusations are so lame nobody but wild-eyed MAGA nutters could ever take you seriously!
Speaking of nutters, your comment is one of them.
A really yuge nutter …. Bigly!
We all know the Biden's can do no wrong, right?😆
I think all the private ones associated with Hunter Biden have gone belly up, but I could be wrong.
Not surprising, without Hunter’s expertise they were doomed to go under.
You are correct jbb but what else is new?
This has been explained to him many times, but....
Seriously, you are asking who the Biden family is? The President and you are asking dumb questions about some yahoos in OK?
wtf?
When did Gotebo get a car dealership?
uh-huh.
It's called being intentionally and ridiculously obtuse. He knows full well who "The Big Guy" is.
to no avail.
Don't you know foreigners look for the most obscure car dealerships in podunk towns to buy from?
lmao
What could be more cost effective for buyers to have to ship cars to a coast first before shipping overseas?
Considering he's got a whole administration full of them.
And what were the charges and convictions of those you mentioned in post 3.4.33? Oh, that's right there haven't been any! Still want to talk cognitive dissonance?
Seriously? Are you going to stick with both "charges and convictions" and Trump?
Nothing you say is the truth so nothing to deny. You are in denial.
What's this nonsense deflection regarding the town where the Clintons live?
Westchester County New York and it's town New Castle has a hamlet, Chappaqua were the Clintons live are predominantly white. Housing segregation and discrimination have always been practiced the.
Almost 20 years ago, a lawsuite was filed Westchester County claiming that the county falsely stated it was meeting fair housing obligations in order to receive millions of dollars in federal funding. Of course, the county fought it. around the midpoint of the Obama years, his administration joined a lawsuit. Finally the county agreed to construct 750 units of affordable housing including in Chappaqua.
The county dragged it heals and slowly built some units, none in Chappaqua. It continued to go back to court seeking certified compliance. 11 times in total. Finally. in 2017, the Trump administration gave the county the thumbs up. Trumps Westchester National Golf Club is 6 miles away.
Poor people of color still face structural racism there.
Very poor deflection Bob.
Exactly why the Clinton's chose to live there.
Yes, they knew all about the neighborhood.
Of course, they did!
No deflection. Although I think I now understand motivations, the actual behavior still stuns me.
You don’t think that they researched the area before buying a $1.7 million dollar in 1999?
You know exactly what I think about that.
I never know what you think.
Of course you do - regarding this exact topic and you and your little buddy.
No, I don't know what or how you think. Please explain.
First on their list for retirement.
Both are happy about their decision.
Clintons? Who mentioned them? I didn't. Please try to keep up.
I did, obviously. Do try to keep up.
So you are just trying to distract and deflect.
have a nice next 24 hours
Exactly
But the media has to love him, because he keeps them able to sell themselves. I think they'll continue to post news about him even if he's in jail.
Trump is clickbait. I hadn't thought of that. Excellent!
You didn’t watch the 2016 campaign?
Probably more like ignored it.
That's Great!
So Trump got another indictment. How long did it take for the MAGA Machine to send out, "Save the Orange Peel" funding requests?
Feel bad for the maintenance worker the DOJ is throwing the book at. Too bad he isn’t a Biden who committed a gun crime. Then the doj doesn’t care.
and Trump doesnt even tip good at christmas
Gee, maybe Democrats should impeach him again.
I'd ask for what, but we already know the Democrats will make something up again. Kind of like their Big Lie in 2016.
What's that famous saying - "Don't Futch with the Bidens"? Makes John Daly's regime look like girl scouts.
They are going to Dr Ford that poor bastard.
Big time.
If I had every right-wing fascist in the country after me, I'd be packing heat too.
Don’t do the crime, if you can’t do the time ……. Does not apply to Biden’s.
Only if you remove the multiple layers of Teflon they have on their backs.
Plural never takes an apostrophe.
Like you seeing Russian bots under your bed every night, do you see "right wing fascists" over your shoulder every time you go out.
Must suck being scared at every turn.
Some people seem to think almost all conservatives that do not share their particular political worldview just have to be described as right wing fascists.
It depends on what Sparty meant. If he meant his or their purported crimes, the apostrophe is proper, but if he meant all of the Bidens, then you are correct.
Buzz the grammar grinch.
It's a confused sentence in any case.
If Sparty meant "belonging to a particular Biden", then he should have indicated which one. If he meant "belonging to any Biden" then it should be "Bidens' ", with the possessive apostrophe after the plural "s".
English ....
What bothers me is not the error. It's the disrespect for readers, requiring them to guess his meaning.
I don't think he did it deliberately to confuse anyone, I think it was probably just a result of not realizing himself that he did so.
Exactly
Wiggle room.
Yeah, It bothers you when folks not of like mind make grammatical errors. Not so much when folks of like mind make them.
Nitpicking unintentional grammatical errors?
Yep, this must be the internet.
Wrong, see 6.3.11.
Next ……
Of course the error is unintentional. That's not the point.
Comm101 teaches us that understanding in any conversation is the responsibility of the "sender" (not the "receiver") because the sender controls the content. The receiver gets whatever is sent, however unintelligible it may be.
So proofreading is just basic courtesy when posting.
Don’t make your reader guess at your meaning. We have enough misunderstanding without that.
Social Media 100
Nitpicking things like grammar on sites like NTers is a low social intelligence move.
So we consider the source.
So gracious!
I understood your post just fine.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Where did I say you didn't?
I would think that Social Media 100 might indicate that where a comment could have two or more possible meanings, a clarification just might be considered a PROPER social intelligence move.
Had someone had the grace to directly ask for a clarification if they were confused, I would have happily given it. Instead what we got was sophomoric nitpicking based on partisan biases. And I’m not talking about you.
We see grammatical errors here every day that don’t get nitpicked. That is good form considering the forum. After all, this isn’t a Masters Thesis. No matter how hard some of the academia tools here try to make it so.
My apology, that was intended for Sparty, assuring him that despite the grammar Nazi, I understood his post--as I am sure others do as well.
I acknowledge and thank you for your statement that you are not talking about me. If anything, I defended you. I don't think I have ever put anyone down for their use of English. I may have made a general statement but it was never aimed at an individual. I am particularly sensitive about persons for whom English is not their first language and in that case have often said that I wished I could speak their first language as well as they could speak English. Sometimes, using the powers that I have here, I have even anonymously corrected others' spelling and grammar.
Well, I may be a Grinch but I'm not a Nazi.
I don't think you are either.
Thanks, but I just posted a couple of really Grinchy articles.
Apparently, for some members of this forum, reminding another member of one of our language's simplest rules ("plural never takes an apostrophe") makes one a Nazi.
TPTB are mute.
Whereas saying that it is "fascism" to support racist authoritarians gets a ticket. Fascinating.
I sent you a PN.
Either you figured out exactly what he meant or should have.
You accomplished absolutely nothing.
I see nothing to support your claim.
Hi, Tex!
You accomplished absolutely nothing.
I see nothing to support your claim.
Keep looking...
Can't waste time looking for unicorns or proof from you.
Maybe some Jackalopes will show up …..
I saw two them in my front yard early this morning down on the border!
Hide the plants, bring in the kids ….
Yep.
Have to love the Biden DOJ. Yesterday they get embarrassed in court trying to pull a fast on the judge and are forced to admit that the deal the doj arranged for hunter is unprecedented. Today they pile on more charges against trump. Say this for garland. He makes no pretense at being anything other than a partisan hack.
Still, Garland is the bullet dodged.
He could have been sitting on the SC right now.
Well it seems it is the Department of JustUs......................
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gee, I wonder what stereotype the russians and irish have in common? >hic< /s
just how did the russians figure out how to distill fermented potatoes before the irish?
Vodka predates the introduction of potatoes in Europe.
Mark my words......
If Devon Archer throws out an indisputable bombshell about Joe Biden tomorrow, the DOJ will promptly throw out indictments for Jan 6 or something from Georgia to draw the leftist lemmings to report it in their newscasts and the rest to parrot incessantly on different social sites.....like here, giving them a reason to ignore whatever Archer might indulge.
... another GOP fart in the wind.
comer and jordan have cried wolf too often...
And yet there's this.
So there is a violation of the Brady Law and yet things were permitted to move forward.
the J6 sedition case will preempt trump's espionage case in the federal courts...
J6 trial starts this year.
hopefully they put trump in an orange jumpsuit this afternoon in DC.
Well orange does seem to be his go to color.
It's been 72 hours and he's still free
Smith has nothing to gain by incarceration
at this rate he won't live long enough to see a jail cell.
... total bummer.
Only in your dreams.
TDS nightmares forever ….
court can be very stressful, for the guilty...
probably a good idea to have a meat wagon on standby outside each courtroom...
... maybe a few.
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Just the hardcore leftist liberal mindset for many.
Haters gonna hate. Left, right, center …. It’s all the same.
Yep.
I believe this seed has run the course ... shutting it down now.