Voices from the Arab press: Arab Peace Initiative: Only solution for peace
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Arab Peace Initiative: Only solution for peace
Al-Arabiya, Saudi Arabia, December 14
Nearly two decades after the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia presented the Arab League with its peace initiative, one must ask: Has a better solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict been proposed since? This question is especially relevant today, as theGaza Stripexperiences an escalating military campaign, tensions rise in the West Bank, and support for the peace camp dwindles in the Arab world. It is clear that dramatic changes are needed in this region, where death is becoming routine.
Imagine if Israel had embraced the late King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz’s initiative and agreed to establish a Palestinian state based on the borders of June 1967. A just solution to the refugee problem could have been reached and the Arab-Israeli conflict would have been resolved. Normal relations could have flourished between the Arab and Israeli peoples, transforming the region into a bastion of peace and prosperity.
Unfortunately, Israeli governments have become experts in procrastinating and manipulating peace talks to advance their own agendas. They hope to annex more Palestinian lands, rendering the establishment of a Palestinian state meaningless. Today, [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu’s government appears determined to eradicate the Palestinian issue altogether. They openly express their desire to displace Palestinians in Gaza to the Sinai Peninsula and consider forcibly transferring West Bank residents to Jordan. Extremist voices within Israel have gained prominence, especially following recent events such as theOctober 7 attacks. This trend is likely to persist, with Israel even acknowledging the possibility of a yearlong war in Gaza.
Israel’s leaders have failed to realize that their arsenal of weapons can cause death and devastation, but it cannot extinguish the will of the Palestinian people to live and survive on their land. Israel’s greatest obstacle to peace is its belief that it has the right to seize Palestinian lands and justify the persecution of Palestinians. Former US president Jimmy Carter, in his book Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid, effectively highlights this issue.
In a recent article, Israeli writer Meir Sheetrit, a former government minister, emphasized that the 2002 peace initiative remains the only sustainable solution for Israelis and the entire region. He laments the missed opportunities since then, with successive Israeli prime ministers failing to respond adequately to the initiative. Sheetrit proposed that Ariel Sharon should have visited Saudi Arabia to discuss the initiative, utilizing the kingdom’s moral influence and financial support for the Palestinians. Sheetrit further suggested convening a meeting in Jerusalem or Riyadh to gather all Arab countries involved in the initiative and work toward resolving the conflict comprehensively.
Former prime minister Ariel Sharon. (credit: REUTERS/Ammar Awad OP/AH)
Unfortunately, the past 20 years have seen countless wasted opportunities by Israeli governments. Prime ministers like Sharon and [Ehud] Olmert recognized the viability of the Saudi initiative but failed to take necessary action. It is uncertain whether Netanyahu is willing to listen now, especially given the perceived threat of Hamas and the deterioration of relations with the Palestinian Authority. Relying solely on American support and maintaining inflexible positions are an unrealistic dream for Israel. Therefore, the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 remains the only viable solution to the long-standing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The crisis will likely persist for decades unless sane and rational individuals in Washington and Tel Aviv embrace this initiative and work toward lasting peace. –Emil Amin
Haniyeh & Abu Marzouk: Real shift in position?
An-Nahar, Lebanon, December 15
The recent clash between the US and Israel following President Joe Biden’s remarks highlights a significant divide between the two parties. Biden accused the Israeli government of extremism, citing the diminishing international support for Israel due to its indiscriminate bombing in Gaza. This has led to calls for a change in the Israeli government. However, both parties remain united in their goal of undermining Hamas’s rule in the Gaza Strip.
The disagreement lies in two key points. First, Israel has been accused of deliberately targeting Gaza civilians in an attempt to bring about demographic change. Second, Netanyahu’s government has explicitly rejected the two-state solution, the Oslo Accords, and the revival of the Palestinian Authority, which are crucial components of any future Arab and international solution. Achieving a political solution seems unlikely given the vast differences between the US administration and the Netanyahu government. The Israeli government is aiming to alter the realities on the ground in the West Bank and the devastated Gaza Strip.
Following the all-out war in Gaza, several scenarios could unfold. Netanyahu may be removed from power, or he could resist with the support of the far-right group he leads and announce early elections in late spring or summer. Meanwhile, the US will be consumed by the frenzy of election campaigns, and there is a possibility that Donald Trump could return to the White House in November, significantly altering the American administration’s stance for the next four years. Many developments are anticipated in the coming months.
Considering the internal Palestinian disagreement and the lack of a unified Arab vision to block Iran’s major influence, it is probable that we will find ourselves back to square one after the war, a year from now. This means there will be no innovative political paths and no glimmer of hope for the suffering Palestinian citizens in Gaza and theWest Bank.
In relation to the internal Palestinian dispute, Hamas political bureau head Ismail Haniyeh stated that Hamas is open to any initiatives that seek to unite the Palestinian territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Senior Hamas member Musa Abu Marzouk added that Hamas aims to be a part of the PLO, with a commitment to fulfilling its obligations. Although these positions may appear promising, they should be viewed with caution amid the ongoing war.
It is possible that Hamas’s political wing is attempting to signal a change in behavior in the postwar period, sending messages to the US and moderate Arab countries. These signals could be used to expedite a cessation of the conflict and to reconsider the goal of removing Hamas from Gaza.
However, it is too soon to include Haniyeh’s and Abu Marzouk’s statements as evidence of a fundamental shift in Hamas’s positions on the PLO and the two-state solution. Consequently, we must await the official statements from Yahya Sinwar, the true leader of Hamas in Gaza, and his faction.
Nonetheless, the emerging positions from Hamas leaders signify an internal debate within the organization, taking place amid the grave dangers faced by the Gaza Strip and the Hamas movement. –Ali Hamada
Translated by Asaf Zilberfarb.
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Before making comments go to the original article and see where it was posted.
Now, this war has been going on since the 19th century with no end in sight and IMO, the current war will not end it but just prolong it like all the others.
Something new must to tried to give security to Israel and a homeland to the Palastinians.
Saudi Arabia proposed this 20 years ago and everything that has been tried since have had the worst of results.
It seems that some people are more interested in perpetuating wars than ending them, or even reading about proposals to end wars.
Root causes for supporting never ending violence and death could be fear/hatred of the "other", hoping for whatever final fantasy their religion promises, and possibly because they make more money off war than peace.
As an atheist, I now celebrate the winter holiday as the Winter Solstice and my own combination of honoring Mother Nature and humankind because I find it peaceful and soul renewing.
Kavika, I wish you the best at your winter celebrations if I don't visit with you again before the approved Dec 25th holiday i wish you.....
Peace, abundance and good health to you and yours.
As you can see on NT few even want to comment on a proposal that is in opposition of an on going war.
That is very Native of you...
Kavika, I wish you the best at your winter celebrations if I don't visit with you again.
Thank you and the to you and yours.
I’ ll post a comment but I need to think some more about the proposal.
I have always admired the People who had reverence for Mother Nature ever since I became acquainted with some of their stories because of my love of reading as a child.
I am not a scholar of Native American tribes, but I have read some authors who cared about facts instead of fiction.
It still brings tears to my eyes what the various tribes needlessly suffered at the hands of the religious and non-religious psychopaths that valued nothing and no one.
I wish I had answers, but from what I know of the range of human behavior, our species has a long way to go before it will ever value peace over war.
Peace.
Waanakiwin (peace)
I’ll post a comment but I need to think some more about the proposal.
I just checked-- 20 comments so far (but is the discussion over yet?)
The article is from Al Arabiya-- the Jerusalem Post reposted it:
Arab Peace Initiative: Only solution for peace
Al-Arabiya, Saudi Arabia, December 14
Nearly two decades after the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia presented the Arab League with its peace initiative, one must ask: Has a better solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict been proposed since? etc
So glad I don't have a dog in that fight.
It's been a lose/lose situation for decades.
between funneling millions to hamas thru Qatar and killing innocent palestinians, bibi is the best middle east ally hamas has, he's a terrorist recruiting machine...
You were saying 4.2
One terrorist dies... three freedom fighters rise.
Seems to be a never ending cycle.
Sithi uhm ingonyama
Nants ingonyama bagithi baba
Sithi uhhmm ingonyama
Ingonyama
Siyo Nqoba
Ingonyama
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (se-to-kwa!)
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (asana)
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (se-to-kwa!)
Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (se-to-kwa!)
No mention of the times the Palestinians walked away from the table when they were offered a peace deal? No surprise there.
Al Arabiya – Bias and Credibility
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence ( Learn More ). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.
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Questionable Reasoning: Poor Sourcing, State Propaganda
Bias Rating: RIGHT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: Saudi Arabia
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: TOTAL OPPRESSION
Media Type: TV Station
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
Perhaps you should write to the Jerusalem Post and tell them not to post anything from Al Arabiya.
First of all, Kavika, as Paul Harvey used to say, let's look at "The Rest of the Story", especially considering what MBFC says about Al-Abayah: " We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the omission of key facts in stories."
LINK [ -> ] "https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is-israel-so-afraid-of-the-arab-peace-initiative/
A key fact that the Al-Abayah author "ignored" is the peace offers made by Israel to the Palestinians that the Palestinians walked away from refusing to negotiate - such as the 2008 offer made by Olmert. And maybe we should consider what the Arabs consider to be a genuine peace, in particular when we look at all the cease-fires that Hamas had agreed to and broken.
[ deleted ]
Yes, we do have ''free speech'' in the US, too fucking bad that in China it doesn't exist if it did you might learn something.
You are aware that this article was published in the Jerusalem Post, right? Are they too left-wing for you or are they controlled by HAMAS?
How about the dozens of articles I posted from numerous other sources, nothing to bitch about there, why because you agree with them but you cannot handle a different point of view so you have to whine about it.
You're damn right I'll keep posting from any source I feel like and if you don't like it you can fuck off and don't have to read them. I couldn't care less what your feeling are any longer Buzz, [deleted]
Some folks are more interested in blaming Israel than in blaming the terrorists.
And you pointing out how Palestinians have rejected every offer and broken every cease-fire is sure to ruffle feathers here.
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
Who might those ''some folks'' be?
Whose feathers were ruffled?
Well, they MIGHT be anybody.
But looking at all the comments here since the terrorist attack on Israel, it isn't just anybody.
Read the posts, I'm sure it will come to you.
So, you can't or won't point them out so they don't exist.
Wasn't the 1967 war caused by Arab countries refusing to accept the Israeli borders as they existed in 1967? Wasn't the 1967 attack on Israel supposedly in support of Palestinians?
The Arab countries had their asses handed to them. Maybe that's because Israel was fighting for a homeland while Arabs were fighting for victimhood. It's not surprising that unbiased liberals want to rewrite that history.
And the CIA had their own agenda.
If by solution we mean peace and a cessation of violent acts, there is no chance until all parties can adopt a stance of forgiveness. As long as ill-will is harbored on either side, there can be no peace. Unfortunately for us, there is no money or power apparently to be gained from not pouring fat on a fire, and politicians find it easier to say they are going to fight for your rights than sit down at a table and talk. The Israel/arab conflict shows us this. The Trump fiasco shows us this. Why must we keep plunging our hands into the fire?
Which one of these wars has Israel started? Which Arab country has Israel attacked?
A minimum precondition for a two-state solution is accepting that Israel has a right to exist as a nation. Israel has accepted the existence of a Palestinian. Have the Palestinians reciprocated?
Thanks for posting a common sense comment.
It does not matter "who started it" unless you are living on a playground where "Nuh-uhh!" and "Uhh-huh" are considered high forms of argumentation. I am not playing your game of who did it first. I am providing analysis of the situation that exists and predicting outcomes based on historical evidence and basic knowledge of human relations.
Hamas was fully aware of these facts when they launched their massacre on a sleeping Israel. They wanted the Israelis to pound the everliving shit out of them because they knew that by doing so they would perpetuate and expand dislike for Israel. I am quite sure that the bulk of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip did not want to be uprooted and pushed about, trying to get out of the way of danger. Yet, somehow the Israeli government thinks that by obliterating the infrastructure above and below ground it can affect a peaceful resolution to the conflict. It may achieve peace in the short term, but the ill-will engendered by the massive destruction will raise its head and threaten them, us, yet again.
That said, do I expect the Israeli government to suddenly change course? No. I am just calling it like I see it. Human societies can be wonderful, but they can be wicked, too.
How are victims identified without pointing fingers at who started it? How are reparations justified without identifying victims? The affirmative secular precondition of victimhood for the 21st century has been "no justice, no peace". And that affirmative precondition requires identifying both victims and those guilty of victimizing. Isn't it odd that the term 'victim' is easily defined and understood while the opposite of victim encompasses a panoply of nuanced definitions?
The claim that it does not matter who started it only applies when the victim isn't really the victim.
The war is between Jews and Muslims. Neither have accepted the theology or morality of Christ. Even the bits and pieces of Christian morality appropriated by secular humanism has no historical foundation in either Judaism or Islam. Neither Judaism or Islam care about purity or perfection when casting stones.
And Israelis are too stupid to understand how Hamas curries a false sense of victimhood? Hamas knows how to dupe liberal secular humanists and Christian moralists into pitying a fake victim. Hamas knows how western victimhood works.
What has the Christianized humanists bowels in an uproar is that Israel isn't moderating its actions because of moral accusations. Israel doesn't agree that Palestinians are victims and is not going to treat Palestinians as victims. Nothing suggests that Palestinians care about peace. And, at this juncture, Israel is exacting justice.
Why are you starting with the wars?
Don't want to go back to the days of the Sterns, Irgun, and other Zionist terrorist groups that attack both the English and Palestinians?
Don't want to discuss the Nakba which started the second Israel declared itself a state?
Have you actually read the Oslo Accords or Oslo Accords II- which Israel is in as much violation of as Hamas?
The PLO/Fatah/PA whatever you want to call them has recognized Israel's right to exist in peace; and renounced terrorism. Hamas has nothing to do with the PA. The two hate each other. Hamas killed off all PA representation in Gaza after they won the election in 2006. Can't say the same for Israel- which has undermined the PA at every turn in the West Bank. It's settlement expansion and IDF/settler violence in the West Bank are in direct violation of the Oslo Accords.
Words only mean anything if both sides recognize them. Every action Israel has taken proves they don't recognize Palestine as a nation.
And all of the violence begets what?
More violence.
What does the violence beget? It begets Israel entering into cease fires (supposed peace?) one after another with Hamas that Hamas broke over and over again. On October 7th Hamas AGAIN broke a cease fire. How many times does that have to happen before it becomes absolutely necessary to do what it takes to stop it from happening, where the perpetrators hide among the civilian population and use them as shields making collateral damage inevitable?
Why not go back to the days of Masada when Rome created Palestine to punish rebellious Jews. Was Hadrian responsible to starting global anti-Semitism?
According to your link, the Oslo Accords lasted three years. Hamas arose to resist the Oslo Accords. And Hamas undercut Yasser Arafat. Yasser Arafat proved to be as reliable and trustworthy as Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton oversaw a revival of violence in Israel and was not as successful in the Middle East as was Jimmy Carter. The Camp David Accords established peaceful coexistence between Egypt and Israel that still stands. Bill Clinton's Oslo Accords did not survive his tenure in office.
No justice, no peace. Hasn't that been the refrain from the pacifist left?
Buzz, until both parties realize the fact that each is not going to eliminate the other ideologically, the violence will continue. There will always be the agitator who, radicalized by religion, power, or greed, will attempt to use perceived differences between people as a wedge issue to gain status with the 'in" group. "They killed/maimed/injured/tortured yourself, your mother/father/brother/baby/child" is just about the strongest wedge around. You know this at a visceral level because you are experiencing that very issue right now.
Guess what? So are the "others," the Palestinian people.
There are ways to dispense justice without destroying everything. I am of the opinion that Israel has overplayed its hand in its rush to avenge the Hamas attack because the hostage situation and the atrocities were so grotesque. Currently, Israel has a public relations problem created by the methods it has used. "Well, damn them. Israel must defend itself!" will be the response to that, and I have no problem with defending itself, but when 20,000 people have died, the neighbors think that explanation may be wearing thin. It is, after all, the neighbors who need to be considered.
Apparently from their commentary, most people on NT are in agreement with the sentiment that, since Hamas has hidden within the population, it is ok to just bomb the fuck out of the Gaza Strip. If anyone survives," Well damn, missed 'em." (I do not consider you to be one of these people, by the way.) These people presumably lack empathy because they have no presence, no connections, no family in harm's way.
Why start there? Why not go back to the days before there was an Israel? The Canaanites were in that area before Israel existed. Why didn't it revert back to them?
Depositing a bunch of European Jews into Arabic lands was sure to cause problems. Guess removing the Jewish problem from Europe was more important than starting a larger problem in the ME?
As for the Accords- please reread them as you obviously missed the point. Israeli illegal settlement expansion and increase in control of the West Bank is in direct defiance of both Oslo Accords. Expansion didn't stop with the signing of the Accords. Israel hasn't honored PA control over areas of the West Bank agreed upon in the Second Accord.
As for Hamas- Bush Jr was the one that insisted on open elections. Israel fully backed that; and Hamas. They had no interest in dealing with a unified Gaza/West Bank/East Jerusalem under the PA.
Israeli sympathizers are great at pretending a country with advanced weapons systems and munitions; is being picked on by a people that don't have any form of standing army; no air force; no navy; and are crafting rockets; IADs; and explosives that are more likely to kill themselves and those around them than hit their intended target.
If Israel wanted peace there would be peace. They want land instead. They can handle any war Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iran (until they get nuclear weapons that is) can throw at them.
The Palestinians need real leadership. Hezbollah, Hamas, and the PA have all failed them. They will never win a war against Israel. But being Israel's punching bags isn't the answer either.
Do you even read your comments before you post them to see if they make the slightest sense?
In your comment you seem to be implying that pacifists want to be violent.
In Issac Asimov's words (via Hari Seldon):
As you point out Judea was created in antiquity as described in Biblical history. (By God for Abraham? That would precede the Exodus.) But Palestine did not exist until the Romans created Palestine for strictly political reasons.
Depositing a bunch of European Greeks and Romans into Persian lands definitely caused problems. The Arabs were minor players in the Middle East until Mohammad created Islam (the religion of conquest).
Israel's advanced weapon systems are used to intercept rockets fired from Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and, even, Iraq and Iran. 9,500 rockets have been fired at Israel since Oct. 7th. The Hamas sympathizers are great at ignoring the Palestinian attacks on Israel.
Just curious, who might those "Hamas sympathizers" be?
I agree that the Palestinian cause is not served well (or at all) by these groups.
despite charlottesville and attacks against american jews by maga supporting domestic terrorists, core segments of the "many fine people" crowd have changed their chants of jews will not replace us to democrats are antisemites in a desperate and feeble attempt to stay relevant and obstruct the public optics of a devolving ideology within their own party.
I'm amused by your use of the words "the Jewish problem". Where have I heard them before?
Okay, you have an opinion. So what would you have Israel do? Lay down their arms? Will Hamas, who have sworn to eradicate Israel (I keep hearing those words "From the river to the sea") and whose religion instructs them to kill the Jews lay down their arms? Will the people who danced and sang in the streets and shared candies when 9/11 happened and again when Oct 7 happened and no longer hide their Hamas heroes among themselves turn over the weapons they are hiding for Hamas and Hamas will turn over their arms? Did you have any friends or relatives in the WTC? Although I was in Toronto I had a friend who was the manager of a boutique hotel who lost his son there. Israel will once and for all do whatever it has to do, whatever it takes, to stop being attacked with rockets and missiles and incendiary kites and balloons and invasions like Oct 7 and I don't blame them one bit. But then I'm sure you've never witnessed a bus bombing in Jerusalem, or seen the wreck of the reception room of the Park Hotel right after a Passover seder was bombed and spoken to the doctors of the local Laniado hospital when they described the mangled bodies they had to deal with, or had a son who when in Jerusalem was knocked out of his bed when he luckily slept in because the cafe below where he would usually eat breakfast at that time was blown to bits. Well I have, ALL of those things, but you can sit back in your rocking chair and pontificate and post "Give Peace a Chance" again, and again, and again......
I don't recall saying that I was opposed to serving justice to Hamas. I do draw a distinction between Hamas and the people who inhabit Gaza. It is not a mutually exclusive proposition to do the former without killing all of the latter.
Israel has vastly superior armaments, systems and people and I have no doubt that they could have laid waste to Gaza already if not for the presence of the hostages. So the end is not in doubt. The means of achieving it can be "kill them all and let god sort them out " or it can be less hard on the civilian population. The first can be achieved by simply bombing repeatedly. I know they were at least trying to warn residents to get out. The second unfortunately means more casualties for the Israelis.
Just as you feel the need to make Israel safe from bombs of all types, there are people who wish to be free of bombs in Gaza.
If Israel wanted to kill the whole population of Gaza, which is what you seem to be blaming them for doing, they could have done so already, but at least you admitted that they are doing whatever they can to keep the general population out of harm's way. However, you must certainly know that the main reason the civilians have been endangered and killed is the fault of Hamas who have contrary to all humanitarian and rules of war embedded themselves within the civilian population, used them as shields, hide among them, have used civilian buildings and institutions as their hiding places for themselves and their armaments, dress like civilians, not soldiers, but NOBODY blames them for the numbers of dead, because after all, they were killed by Israel, not them, and NOBODY is demanding that Hamas surrender which would stop the bloodshed immediately.
Battle for Fallujah
With Iraq’s national elections approaching, fifteen thousand U.S. and Iraqi service members assault the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah in central Iraq. The urban fighting is successful but costly. Thirty-eight U.S. troops die, along with six Iraqi soldiers. The Pentagon estimates 1,200 insurgents are killed, and the Red Cross says eight hundred Iraqi civilians are also among the dead.
I said as much.
No, I said that they were warning them to get out. That is far from " doing whatever they can to keep the general population out of harm's way "
I am faulting them for using bombs where other armaments could be more suitable.
See 4.1.20
I know of no person who says nobody blames Hamas. It is precisely because of their being inextricably intertwined with the population that we are having this conversation. But you know what? You are right in stating they were killed by Israel because Israel hurled the bombs that killed them.
It's a good thing you aren't an army commander.
This old 60s hippy might wish for world peace....
This old 60s hippy knows it will never happen.
This old 60s hippy can't even predict a Chiefs win.
Wishing has never been a successful method, you might as well be praying, same difference.
Couldn't agree more.
Spent decades studying all aspects of science.
And here I am wasting my time with you.
Perhaps ten years wasn’t long enough for you.
[deleted]
Perhaps, I’ve never taken an IQ test.
Learn to read. I wrote "decades".
You’re a student for the ages.
I take IQ tests all the time because they're fun.
Don't get much higher than 165.
So many folk out there who are much smarter than me.
Then you realize that hope is not a method 4.2
Fuck that Java crap! Speak English.
Java? The programming language, a cup of coffee, the Indonesian island?
It truly does amaze me that there are people who would "both sides now" (and I'm not including Joni) a nation that has brought nothing more to the world but a few bottles of olive oil and drained a lot of the rest of the world's income to support generation after generation after generation of "refugees" with its own special dedicated UN branch of UNRWA, a nation of people who danced and sang with joy in the streets and shared candies to celebrate both 9/11 and Oct7 WITH a nation that always had to defend itself against other nations and has brought so many benefits to the rest of the world - I recently posted an article that listed only SOME of the long list of medical and technogical and military benefits that Israel and Israelis have provided to the world.
Sorry if I don't, but then I witnessed a bus bombing in Jerusalem, I saw the reception room of the Park Hotel in Netanya right after the Passover seder was blown up in it, and it was my son who was bounced out of his bed because he luckily slept in the morning when the cafe under his building where he would normally be for breakfast was blown to bits.
Just like the Ukraine, Russian war where you did the ''both sides now'' thing.
So now we determine a people's worth by what inventions they have given to the world? Gee, where have I heard that before, Oh I know.
To correct a deliberate lie meant to demonize me, I NEVER "BOTH SIDES NOW" THE RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR. I said I had the blood of my Ukrainian mother and Russian father in my veins AND I REFUSE TO TAKE SIDES.
And hey, keep paying your taxes because you will be helping to support UNRWA.
I don't have to demonize you, you do a good job of that yourself. Like how Israel is superior people over the Palestinians because of their inventions and the Palestinians only produce olive oil. That comment is damn racist Buzz, in case you can't see it.
You can't take sides even though Russia is slaughtering Ukrainians both military and civilians on a massive scale, because you have Russian blood? WOW!!
Yeah, I pay my taxes which of course part of which goes to support Israel and Ukraine.
I'm finished being insulted by you. I'm requesting a restriction.
Oh no.
Please request a restriction, whatever that means.
You might get a ''time out'' though.
Stopped paying federal taxes years ago.
Gambling that I'll be dead before they twig.
I heard the President talking about, about people who don’t pay their fair share.
easy to do with an LLC...
Kavika-- reading what you've posted here, there's the impression that the Arabs were continually trying their best to make peace (after all this seed is about the "generous" peace plan the Arabs offered-- and then your comments about Israeli intransigence.
But discussing the plan, you left out an interesting detail. I checked: (I'm sure it was unintentional):
A suicide bomber killed 30 Israelis in Netanya the same day the Initiative was launched. [3] [22]
And I was there only days after it happened. I was in the reception room. The bodies had been removed but the destruction and the mayhem and the blood stains were still there. I spoke to the doctors at the local hospital, Laniado Hospital, a modern Orthodox hospital where even the Muslim doctors were in tears describing to me what the bomb did to the women and children and men celebrating a Passover seder.
The article is from the Jerusalem Post,(re-posted) so I posted the article as words from the ''other side'' and up for discussion which it seems is to fucking difficult for you and Buzz and a few others to understand that point. Exactly what did you expect an opinion from an Arab paper? So, if the Jerusalem Post chose to post it what is the problem with it being posted on NT by me?
As for my comments about Israeli intransigence would please post them just to show me my accusations of Israeli intransigence?
It's best not to assume anything about me or my motivations since it seems that you and others think that you are the only people with ties to the ME, let me assure you, you are not nor are you the final word on NT about the situation in the M/E, past or present.
What is of no value in my comment, it's my seed, I posted it and I'll determine what is of value or not value, no one else.
I removed one name since they were not the topic and for the record, I routinely remove comments that are not on topic, even if not requested by the author of the seed.
And I just reread the thread and I am restoring your comment since I just noticed why you made it.
Personal experiences are part of what leads to someone's opinion on a matter, but they are not the beginning and end of the truth. As you have shown in some of your articles, some Palestinians have shown their personal experiences which is also part of the "truth".
I do not understand your comment. What is it I said that you assumed I was claiming to be "the final word" on the situation in the Middle east?
you and others think that you are the only people with ties to the ME
Again, I'm wondering what made you assume that? perhaps i wasn't clear in something I said, so let me state more clearly-- I don't know about the "others" you are referring to, but I definitely do not think that I am "the only person with ties to the Middle East".
(Was does that mean, anyway? "Ties to the Middle East"? Or were you perhaps trying to say that I had been there? IMO that hardly makes me some sort of "expert"-- and its been probably at least 15 years or so since I've been there.)
I've got you back. Fuck all assholes.
I responded to your comment on the article and pointed out a few things and asked you four questions. The response that I received from you is to skip over that part of my comment and concentrate on the last paragraph.
You are an intelligent person, Krish I'm sure that you understand my last paragraph quite well.
This article explains why the Arab Peace Initiative has no chance of succeeding.
Here's What Netanyahu Had to Say About Calls for a 'Permanent Ceasefire' (townhall.com)
It's the same old from Netanyahu, Gregg he does not want a two state solution. Most Israelis do not want Netanyahu either from all the recent polls.
I wish that Israelis could wipe out HAMAS but that is a pipedream, you cannot defeat an ideology and for every terrorist Israeli kills, there are more to take their place. Do you think that they can eliminate Hamas, then have to deal with Islamic Jihid, and then take on Hezbollah and the Houties and eliminate them all?
That is not going to happen as great as it would be.
Air/fuel bombs are serious!
Thermobaric munitions?
So would you agree then that we failed at wiping out Naziism in Germany as a result of WWII?
Of course it was dominant during the war. I'm sure there are still pro-Nazi types in Germany (as there are in the U.S. and other countries). But its no longer dominant in Germany. So yes-- for all practical purposes we wiped it out as a predominant force there.
How about Imperial Japan? WIMO we also suceeded in wiping that ideology out as well.
I agree that we can't wipe out an ideology completely. There are still some Nazi types in the U.S. But my point is an ideology can strongly exist-- it can run a country. But it can definitely be eliminated as a significant force.
And in both cases (nazi Germany and Imperial Japan) while their totslitarian systems had wide support yet were still "wiped out" as the dominant force-- it wasn't accomplished via sensible "negotiation" (Chamberlain tried...) rather it took military force.
A rare video-- I was only able to obtain this vintage footage due to my incredible "ties" to Great Britain!
Who is using Air/Fuel bombs? (What comment # contains that information?)
I don't think they can eliminate Hamas-- its too entrenched-- and they are filthy rich (Their leaders are very, very wealthy, and living a life of great luxury).
Eliminating Islamic Jihad to the point where its no longer a serious threat might be possible-- but Hamas is the real problem.
I could be wrong, But my own assessment is that Hezb'Allah doesn't want a full scale war with Israel. As for the Houthies, I doubt they'll ever be able to do more than fire occasional rockets or drones at ships in the red Sea-- not a major threat to Israel.
There are Nazis all over the world, of course, they are not dominant but are dangerous and Germany has a real problem with them even though most everything from that era is outlawed by the German government.
We are talking about two countries that we and much of the world went to war with. When dealing with terrorist organizations we are dealing with a different mind set. Japan only surrendered because the Emporer told them too, the military government would not surrender. What ideology did we defeat in Japan?
Has the Taliban been defeated, no they have not or ISIS, no to that as well. Hamas, Hezbollah, et al are terrorist organizations that will keep regenerating as long as there are Jews in the world.
As I have stated many times on this matter, what is going to defeat them but it still won't destroy them is a change in leadership with the Palestinians and Israel. The Palestinians cannot to continue to support Hamas or Hezbollah and have a two state solution.
Agreed and the same with Hezbollah they are bigger better armed and as rich as Hamas. And from the recent events of the last two days, Israeli just might be fighting a two front war with Hezbollah being the other front.
As far as the Houties go I think that you are underestimating them and they are very dangerous. They have defeated the Saudis who have spent billions of dollars trying to wipe them out and have only accomplished destroying a country with massive civilian casualties.
They are very well-armed and can cut of sea transport to Israel via the Red Sea.
meh, a bunch of religious radicals on a patch of sand with a beach in the middle of bfe? too easy...