"A radical act." Trump goes on offense
Donald Trump says that he will not back Florida's 4th Amendment, which would restrict abortion to 6 weeks. This dramatically moves the needle on abortion and takes it off the table for many.
"The proposed amendment would bar restrictions on abortion before fetal viability, around the 24th week of pregnancy, while ensuring exceptions to protect the health of the mother.
The backlash from anti-abortion advocates was fierce after Trump's interview with NBC News, with some warning that the Republican presidential nominee was risking losing support from a key bloc of the party’s base."
Trump comes out against Florida's abortion rights ballot measure after conservative backlash (nbcnews.com)
The media is already trying to spin it because although Trump said 6 weeks is too short, he added that 9 months is too long. Both are radical measures.
Trump also called for government funding of IVF.
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The ball now goes to the Harris campaign.
as if anyone with a lick of sense would believe anything the serial liar says today would be valid in 4.5 months...
Coming from someone that believes Harris' BS that is laughable.
Believe????????
Hell, they worship it
'9 months is too long'
there's that ignorant abortion at birth bullshit
When "Face the Nation" moderator Margaret Brennan asked Harris what week of pregnancy abortion access should be cut off, the vice president repeatedly said "the protections of Roe v. Wade" need to be put back in place, but did not directly answer the question.
Kamala Harris says GOP claims that Democrats support abortion up until birth are "mischaracterization" - CBS News
If she doesn't believe in abortion up until birth she should say so,
Late term abortions are rare and highly regulated everywhere. They often involve rape and incest or complex private medical decisions that must be considered on an individual basis. There is no one size fits all answer that addresses every conceivable situation. Viability is possible from about 24-25 weeks on but full term is 37-38. MAGA want to put women in prison for 7-8 week zygotes...
In other words, MAGA scaremongering isn't working anymore!
Would you say that most Americans want the right to abortion with restrictions?
Can you define "a woman's health?"
I know that making abortion illegal does not stop terminations from occuring. What it does is make women and doctors and midwives criminals. There is no doubt Americans want access to safe medical care for the women they know and care for...
You didn't answer either question.
A woman's health is determined by her doctor and herself and is not up to me or you to define. Late term abortions are rare and highly regulated depending on individual circumstances. What about that is your understanding malfunctioning about?
How many women and doctors are you willing to imprison for making the personal medical decision to terminate?
Correct!
So, it could be anything from the endangerment of her life to the "trauma" of inconvenience.
Answer my questions.
The above exchange exemplifies why it is impossible to have a sincere discussion with those of your wrongheaded conviction!
that is way I see it. Her decision only
if we want thumpers to mind their own business, we need to put a hefty price tag on when they won't...
Abortion should be on demand no questions asked up until the third trimester. Afterwards, late term abortions should continue to be regulated and restricted to special consideration such as rape, incest and to protect the life of the mother. There is no pat answer for every situation. Wanting to make women and doctors and midwives and family who "conspire" to terminate an unwanted pregnancy criminals is just plain old weird...
Answer all the questions I asked above you left unanswered!
It doesn't matter that she 'didn't directly answer the question'. No need, there is no such thing as 'abortion up until birth or after' to begin with so no need to denounce something that does not happen. There is no proof this happens, One would have to be a certifiably insane demented ranting raving demented lunatic to say such things happen.
Actually the protections of Roe v Wade answers the question
It never did work among sensible people
The zygote stage of pregnancy only last for 4-5 days after fertilization. Get your terminology correct.
Actually, it doesn't answer the question any better than Harris did.
Who gives a shit about the terminology - 7-8 weeks a woman may not even know she is pregnant
Demand, you should only have to ask politely
How about no questions asked in all circumstances none of your damn business why so butt out and just do the thing right now?
Look, I personally think abortions are awful but will always happen no matter what as long as there are still unwanted pregnancies.
Birth control, sex education and family planning are proven to dramatically reduce the demand for terminations. Start there!
My list of questions for abortion:
1 are you pregnant?
2 Do you want to not be pregnant?
3 When is good time to schedule?
Also, one of the best things to spend government money on is improved birth control for both sexes and even better back up measures
Have you ever seen, read or heard of an honest discussion about abortions with an anti-abortion zealot? No, of course not because they won't be honest! Just try to nail one of them down about the penalties they really want for women, doctors, midwives and even friends and family who merely helped...
Nailing Jello to the wall...
Then why would she be looking to get an abortion?
why should a law prohibit it?
Because it needs to be regulated.
How many years for the doctor and woman? What about for the providers of street (see back alley) abortions once legal abortions are unavailable? Would could should the death penalty apply?
As long as there is DEMAND for abortions abortions happen!
The way to stop abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancy!
Abortion NEEDS to be safe, legal and rare! This means that if you really care it you MUST advocate for easy access to all forms of birth control without parental or spousal notification and mandatory comprehensive sex education before puberty!
Do you do even that?
only regulation needed is to ensure it is readily available when desired and safely available and the woman is treated with respect and dignity
So you are ok for a healthy woman carrying a healthy baby to have an abortion just on a whim and because she wants to?
I have no problem with birth control except for the use of abortion for control. No access without parental notification and consent. If a minor can not be given any other medication without parental consent birth control should be no different. Spousal notification is a non-issue as it would be between adults. Education is always good but parents should be notified and be allowed to opt out.
No, first you answer this! What should be the penalty for the women who chooses to abort and the doctor or midwife who performs the procedure? What about the penalty for botched back alley abortions where the mother dies that will inevitably happen once abortion is illegal? For once answer these!
That would be up to the state legislators not me.
Then you are not really serious about wanting to stop the demand for terminations. Do you think a girl suffering incest would ever ask for birth control if her father was notified?
Now answer my questions about penalties for abortions!
If you believe abortions should be illegal then what should be the penalty? If you believe as you say then have the courage to say it loud and clear! If you won't then no wonder MAGA fails!
You can't keep evading answering this fundamental question.
A girl undergoing incest needs to inform the authorities.
Punishment for doctors would be two years in jail suspended for first offense loss of medical license for 5 years 10 years supervised parole.
For the woman. 5 years probation.
YES! She is doing the work, and supplying the power
What business of yours is it?
Are you paying her bills?
Doing the work she is not able to do because of pregnancy?
Are you going to pay to support the unwanted child for years?
Maybe she wants to save wear and tear on her body
Kids are going to have sex no matter if their parents know or approve. Better to be safe than sorry
What a stupid question.
That's why 12 weeks should be the cut off point.
Why should the doctor or the woman be punished?
Nobody should be punished for making a logical and personal decision
And not just the financial stuff. Is arkpdx going to be waking up for 2 AM feedings? Changing diapers? Doing endless loads of laundry? Pacing the floor with a colicky baby for hours? Entertaining a child with endless readings of Good Night Moon and the entire Dr. Seuss collection? Potty training? Childproofing the house? Teaching the child how to walk, talk, tie his or her shoes, wipe his or her own behind, hold a pencil, ride a bike, share, take turns, be polite, regulate emotions.
It's a tough job even when it's one you asked for.
It's best not attempted by somebody on whom it's forced.
Because they broke the law.
What about repeat offenders?
Killing an innocent is not logical and the time to decide the someone does not want to be a mother is before she has sex with the father.
The penalties increase.
What about the cost to investigate, arrest, prosecute, punish, parole and monitor those accused of having, performing and assisting in criminal conspiracies to commit abortions?
We are talking probably millions of new criminals to imprison.
Well, that's simple. We could always privatize the prisons, right? Prosecution for profit. What could possibly go wrong?
Then if it is legally murder logically the death penalty would ultimately be punishment for some repeat offenders right?
We could recruit Proud Boys and Oath Keepers as guards!
Mothers For Freedom could be like Aunts to the inmates...
Don't count chickens before they hatch
That is what I thought. Thanks for that singular honesty...
what do you mean by innocent?
pencils have erasers, computers have backspace and delete, I use both a lot. Cause I make mistakes and fix them
Problems should be prevented but they will still happen and should be fixed before they are bigger problems.
I guess most of us can agree on that.
I don't see why it's an issue.
The things you erase or use backspace on your computer for are not living human beings in development
That is kind of the point of regulation.
Abortion should not be on demand and questioned at all times.
Why?
Many conservatives complain about government over regulation
" in development "
Not everything in development becomes a successful product, for many different reasons. Again chickens or anything in development should not be counted before they hatch or fully develop.
So we should just kill or destroy anything in development even if there is no indication that there is nothing wrong with the it and still has the potential to come out positively
We? There is no we! You have no part in it in any way...
No woman has an abortion on a whim..
It's none of your business anyway.
Questioned by who?
Of course I have a part in it if I am the father.
Most abortions are done for the convenience of the mother. She just doesn't want to Be pregnant or it will mess up her bikini lines or she has fallen out of love with her partner.
Gee you never complain about that when second amendment rights are discussed and they want to get out guns
The father is already on the financial hook to support the baby wanted or not. I
Nope. Not your decision to make.
No, not convenience. None of those are true. How would you know her reasons anyway? You wouldn't. Whatever her reason, it's still no one else's decision to make but hers.
That has nothing to do with this and no one wants to 'get your guns'
If something is unwanted why continue a problem. Most unwanted things do not get taken care of very good
And if your not, it is none of your business. And a Father against abortion should already have made an agreement with the potential Mother before having sex with her, referring to comment 1.1.54
"Most abortions are done for the convenience of the mother"
and what is wrong with that?.
Why add this to everything else to what is needed to properly raise a child?
Why make things even harder?
'or she has fallen out of love with her partner'
because he walked out on her when she was pregnant
arkpdx, you are not the father...
Most women who choose to terminate do so because they already have more children than they can provide for. In the forced birth zealot's tiny minds that qualifies as, "For Her Convenience"!
This once we agree, why not write an honest article about why?
This was an honest article.
Trump has distanced himself from the issue, despite getting involved in a Florida law, which found him on both sides.
You say you still believe in "safe, legal and rare."
Is that where Harris stands?
Yes, Harris believes abortion should be safe, legal and rare!
Show me please
Mayne not but doesn't the actual father have any reproductive rights. Can he require the mother t9 get abortion even if she wants to keep the baby? Can he require her to have the baby and take custody of the baby after birth?
She didn't know her situation before she got pregnant? She took no precautions? Did she not know how babies are made?
She still gets to correct the problem. Precaution is the best way but correction is necessary
Because she was irresponsible and is now pregnant is one of the consequences of unprotected sex. She has to..live with her choice.
So she should be punished
That is what happens when you break the law, you get punished.
NO! She can choose solve her problem
Why do you care about somebody you have no involvement with getting an abortion?
I care about an innocent human life tatherreken needlessly and just because someone doesn't want it is not a good enough reason. There are plenty of couples looking too adopt babies.
Why don't you care about the life of an innocent baby
Not in the least. After years of Trump boasting how he was responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned he is now trying to pretend he distanced himself from the issue, but he is, and will remain, central to the issue.
The women and all the pro-choice people he is trying to fool aren't going to buy it for a second. The anti-choice people who make up a large percentage of his base will not tolerate or allow him to soften his anti-choice stance or distance himself from it.
The abortion issue is permanently hung around Trump's neck.
1 it is a decision for the mother
2 It is not my business
3 I do not like the government trying to control what I do
4 People having children they do not want, have the ability and resources
to properly raise to or have too many of already often do not have a good chance
5 Generational poverty
6 Cost for government services for children parents can't or won't take care off, that I as
a taxpayer get stuck with
7 opportunity cost of pregnancy (what woman could be doing if not pregnant)
8 I don't like churches, preachers, Popes ect, ect trying to tell people not in their church
how to run their lives
9 The idea some push that children are the penalty for enjoying sex
10 Overpopulation is the hidden big problem making everything worse
11 Children cost money, time and resources those involved might want to use for other
things or for children they already have to take care of.
12 Body anatomy is a basic right,
13 What people who are already here want is more important than what is not here yet
14 Abortion is cost effective
15 If something is a problem and a solution is available it should be allowed
15 Convivence is important
16 If abortion can be prohibited what else will some try to take away?
17 AND I am not a busybody
I am sure there are more good reasons and ask supporters of freedom of choice to dd some
It is regulated where it is not banned or so restricted that it might as well be.
For having sex for pleasure. For birth control failing. I knew a woman who had many children while on birth control. So your endless nonsensical stupid comments are just that.
No you don't. It's no one's business. There are plenty of children out there to adopt. It doesn't matter what her reasons are, you have no idea what they are. It's her life, her choice, her body, her decision. Why do so many old men make it their business?
Excellent charger - and that's bodily autonomy - DAMN THAT SPELL CHECK.
She just never could quite figure out how to use a condom?
What a moron!
"In some states babies are executed AFTER they are born..."
Yes, when you've maxed out your rhetoric but you need to take it up a notch anyway...
Next week..
"In some states kids are executed 15 years after they are born!"
Sad thing is that the radicalized rightists will believe that one as well.
I think she will just watch him run in ever widening circles trying to escape the inevitable consequences of flip flopping.
'trump goes on the offensive'
I find him to always be so
Um, no. From your own article:
The 4th Amendment supports the right to abortion until viability. It does not restrict abortion to 6 weeks.
And from your link, his supporters are not happy with his flip-flopping:
Correct.
Yes, Trump is now avowedly pro-choice. He doesn't support abortion until birth which is what the Florida amendment would create, but supports abortion up until some undefined time before that. Now that he's immersing himself in state level issues, he'll probably have to clarify that too.
Trump also called for government funding of IVF.
I'm sure Harris will copy it. But the government has no business funding that. We have a trillion dollar deficit, giving out more free things is not the answer.
No, again.
Viability is not "until birth".
Keep reading. What modifies viability?
What, "when necessary to protect the patient's health"?
Yeah, that's not "until birth" either, Sean.
Words have meanings.
Exactly.
Now look up how patient's health is defined. That's all that matters. Everything else is smoke and mirrors and has been since the day Roe was decided.
Spin, Sean. Why don't you back up your argument? Tell us why you think "to protect the patient's health" means "abortion until birth"?
Of course, we've already seen your misunderstanding of Trump's stated position on my seed containing the same link, so we'll all keep that in mind, mmkay?
Why don't you back up your argument?
I've done it many times and rather than address the information and arguments presented, people ignore it. This has been going on for 50 plus years. Health is so broadly defined that it swallows up the supposed rule. Just read Doe vs bolton and if you understand it, you'll understand what a lie the "gestational age" framework has always been.
All you need is an abortionist with a financial stake in the abortion to claim the abortion would benefit the mother.
e've already seen your misunderstanding of Trump's stated position on my seed containing the same link
What a dishonest framing. trump said something new today that I wasn't aware of and rather than ignore it and persist in promoting a falsity, I updated my argument to reflect the new information. I guess that is a novel concept for some.
So, not going to back up your argument, then.
No, you made a false statement about Trump's views that contradicted both his actions as POTUS, his past statements calling for punishment for women who have abortions, and his quoted words in the very article on which you were commenting.
Then you contradicted yourself, doubled down, and now you're blaming me for pointing out your contradictions of both Trump and yourself.
That's the "dishonest framing" here.
Lol. I provided you with the case that provides the literal legal definition of a health exception to abortion cutoffs.
s that contradicted both his actions as POTUS, his past statements calling for punishment for women who have abortions, and his quoted words in the very article on which you were commenting.
What are you talking about? he said, yesterday, that he opposes a six week ban and implied he would support Amendment 4, legalizing abortion until birth. Today he says he still supports legal abortion but not up until birth. He's pro-choice. Deal with it.
Where?
Sure, the guy who said women should get punished for having an abortion is "pro-choice".
Imagine believing that Trump is pro anything except what he thinks will benefit him at the moment. Everyone knows that Trump doesn't have a committed position on anything.
the guy still taking credit for the reversal of roe vs wade...
And claiming that "everyone" wanted it overturned and sent to the states.
Everything Trump does is offensive! Keep it up...
Trump also called for government funding of IVF.
Communism!
A new day and another flip and flop, danger whiplash zone.
Trump to vote against Florida abortion measure after backlash
Who is going to build and staff the correctional facilities to imprison tens of thousands of Florida women who will be made criminals?
I ask because making terminations illegal does not stop abortions!
And drug laws be do not keep people from abusing drugs. Laws against murder does not stop people from killing each other. Laws against theft doesn't stop people from stealing. Do you want to wipe out those laws also?
Whoosh!
Is persecuting abortion a worthwhile use of tax dollars when there are actual crimes being committed?
We put people in prison for breaking those laws sometimes for the rest of their lives or they get a death penalty. The laws don't stop them from happening but the law punishes lawbreakers.
MAGA intend on putting thousands and thousands of women, doctors, midwives and family members in jail for abortions.
That is the point you and those like-minded refuse to address.
It's fucking nonsense - prosecuting the doctors and the women who seek abortion. It's like Nazi Germany shit.
his position has changed and been "clarified" so many times in the last 36 hours, even his own campaign doesn't know what it is...
I ask you rhetorical questions that need no answers because asking these type of questions to a MAGA is considered harassment. It is despairing and exhausting trying to get any sincere responses...
One thing for it, at least hereabouts they are leaving the evidence.
This is so indicative of just how dumb Trump thinks everyone but Trump is. As if his one vote carries the force to create policy in the state, and as if his verbal diarrhea is in any way to be trusted. It’s just more evidence of how incomprehensibly gullible his supporters are. Even if he did vote like he claims (which he might because why should a 79 year old male narcissist care about young women?), his single vote carries the same meager weight as the woman he hires to clean the ketchup off his walls. Any idiot who takes this moment to say “the ball is now in your court, Kamala” has just demonstrated how stupid they are.
the future possibility of a republican former president leaving a federal prison for his own state funeral is pretty ironic ...
Fucking awesome to all the above ...... and the cherry on top 'clean the ketchup off his walls'
What a miserable fucking job it would be to work for that scumbag in any capacity unless you're a scumbag like him and even then . . .
Did making alcohol illegal during prohibition prevent people from making and drinking it?
No! and miking abortion illegal won't stop it either
But it will make it far more dangerous. The right does not care about that though, since the cruelty is always the point on that side of the isle.
Just making it more and more inconvenient and cost prohibitive to those in those states where it is banned and who can ill afford to travel where it is not banned or so severely restrictive that it amounts to the same thing.
Just like prohibition caused people to make moonshine that some of it was unsafe and caused deaths, prohibiting abortion will cause unsafe abortions that could injure or kill women
Not to mention that prohibiting abortion makes pregnancy unsafe for women having planned pregnancies. We've already seen examples of women with pregnancy complications endangered by lack of abortion access. Many so called "pro-lifers" seem determined to overlook the fact that bad things happen during pregnancies, and that there were reasons that, before 1900 or so, "died in childbirth" was a pretty common thing to read on death certificates. Most families had lost women to pregnancy or labor complications.
Wait, who are we talking about again?? Oh! That's right. I had almost forgotten...
A woman should have all the abortions she wants and can afford.
That being said, there are so many ways today to prevent pregnancies that abortions should be quite rare.
Why is abortion anybody else's business?
Having a short time to get an abortion could cause a woman to make an early quick decision to get it done before time runs out. For those against choice this could be counterproductive.