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Friends or foes?

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  3 days ago  •  86 comments

Friends or foes?
Donald Trump continued his budding trade war with Canada by pledging to 'just get it all back' with stiffer reciprocal tariffs next month - as Ontario Premier Doug Ford threatened to knock his lights out.


It seems that President Trump has ignited a once dormant nationalism in Canada and a bit of hostility from Mexico. It may be time now to examine what it is that Trump wants out of our two neighbors.


Canada: The Liberal Party was headed toward defeat with Trudeau on his way out, but the Trump tariffs plus his words gave the Liberal Party up there a second life. He trolled them in his own peculiar style. That being said, Trump has a point on a number of issues. First, Canada runs up a $50 billion surplus with the US. That surplus keeps growing. Canada exports to us a lot of gas, oil & electricity. Canada protects its agricultural & timber industries with high tariffs and subsidies. It puts tariffs as high as 250% on American butter or milk or lumber.
Second, is the issue of the northern border. Canada does not present the kinds of problems America faces along its southern border, but a small amount of fentanyl plus some dangerous people have come across the northern border. Trump wants that border secure.
Finally, Canada is a NATO member and only donates about 1.3 % of their GDP to support the organization. Everyone has agreed to at least 2%. There is much that Canada can do to act as an ally.

Mexico: What is Mexico now? Friend or enemy?

As of now we have a trade deficit with Mexico of $150 billion and it is rising. Mexico employs cheap labor to undermine American unions and draw American manufacturers to Mexico. That does not include the $68 billion that Mexicans who work in the US send back to Mexico. Those people enjoy programs that help sustain them in the US which do not exist in Mexico. All of that relieves Mexico of its social responsibility to care for its own people.
And then there is the Fentanyl coming across the southern border which has taken the lives of about 75,000 Americans in the past decade. The Mexican government enabled the cartels to make the Fentanyl.
The Mexican government routinely votes against the US at the UN. The previous leader of the Mexican government told Mexicans who crossed into the US to vote against Republicans if they were able to. 

Mexico has an even longer way to go to prove they are a friend to the US.


In the news:

Wall Street had its worst day of the year, with Tech companies taking the biggest hit.

Ukraine targeted Moscow with a major drone attack. Moscow’s mayor said the attack was the largest against the city since the war began. Ukrainian and American officials will meet today for their first high level talks on a cease-fire.

A judge ordered the State Department and U.S.A.I.D. to pay for work already completed.

The Trump administration is relying on a very old law to deport a pro-Palestinian student activist. The activist, Mahmoud Khalil, has a green card and is married to a U.S. citizen. 

Trump is urging Republican House members to do what Nancy Pelosi once demanded of her House members: stand together in unity.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    3 days ago

Good morning and welcome to the news.

It isn't quite over for Rep Al Green

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Speaker Mike Johnson is considering removing Democratic Rep. Al Green from all of his committee assignments.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    3 days ago

I really wish you would post reality instead of posting Trump's fictional attempt to support his unjustified tariffs.  The seed above says:

"It puts tariffs as high as 250% on American butter or milk or lumber."

But the reality is:

"Those high tariffs kick in only after the U.S. has hit a    certain Trump-negotiated quantity    of    tariff-free    dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the U.S. dairy industry    acknowledges  , the U.S. is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product."

LINK -> Fact Check: What Trump Doesn’T Mention About Canada’S Dairy Tariffs - Community | The NewsTalkers

From the seed above:

"Canada runs up a $50 billion surplus with the US. That surplus keeps growing. Canada exports to us a lot of gas, oil & electricity."

Canada did not run up that surplus, it has not forced the USA to buy its oil, the USA has run up Canada's trade surplus it is complaining about by voluntarily buying Canadian crude oil - i.e. the USA has created their own trade deficit, but "Blame Canada"  LOL

"In fact, when those oil exports are removed from the equation, the U.S. actually has a trade surplus with Canada, according to economic data. In 2023, that surplus was more than US$30 billion, the TD analysis showed."

LINK -> U.S.-Canada trade deficit is highest in 20 years. Does it justify tariffs? - National | Globalnews.ca

Really, Vic, credibility is what is respected in the real world. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1    2 days ago
credibility is what is respected in the real world. 

And credibility is based on FACTS:

The trade surplus with the United States widens for a third consecutive month

Exports to the United States were up 2.6% in June, a third consecutive monthly increase, while imports from the United States rose 1.7%. As a result, Canada's trade surplus with the United States widened from $8.8 billion in May to $9.4 billion in June, the largest surplus since November 2023.

The Daily — Canadian international merchandise trade, June 2024

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    2 days ago

BTW, this just in from General Carignan, Chief of Canadian Defense Staff:

"Together as Canadians, we’re going to meet our 2% NATO spending target by 2030, modernize NORAD, strengthen our Arctic presence, and ensure we build a strong, resilient Canada."

Mark Carney (@MarkJCarney) / X

By 2030 ??????

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    2 days ago

Last year?  That's all the trade surplus was?  Good reaslon to start a trade war.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.3    2 days ago

Just the FACTS.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.2    2 days ago
"By 2030 ??????"

Yeah, sort of about a half a century before the USA will beocme carbon neutral.  That's about as relevant to this as NATO suppprt/

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.5    2 days ago

Canada is going to have to pay their fair share on NATO and drop the protectionist tariffs against the US.

One more bit of advice for the new PM: Don't try to play who has the bigger balls with Trump.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.7  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    2 days ago

 I'm just looking forward to what's going to happen in November 2026.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.7    2 days ago

Me too.

Right now the dems may shut down the government.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.9  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.8    2 days ago

I'll put my money on David, not on Goliath.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.9    2 days ago

Save your money.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.1.11  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.8    2 days ago
Right now the dems may shut down the government.

Republicans are the ones shutting down the government, causing massive panic in the financial markets, losing billions of dollars and tossing Americas standing as a global leader aside like Esau selling his birthright for a bowl of stew. Sad and frankly disgusting to watch, but this is what the larger minority of Americans wanted, so this is what they get and there's no "cooling off" period for more rational heads to return their purchase. We get this insanity for the next four years and no doubt the dishonest Republicans will blame every disaster Trump creates on Democrats not being willing to go along with the insanity.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    2 days ago
Don't try to play who has the bigger balls with Trump.

That is such bullshit.

The USA and the presidency gives Trump far more leverage than Canada.   It does not take balls to threaten with a big gun.

If Trump had balls he would not be kowtowing to Putin and bullying Ukraine.

Trump is an asshole.  His tariffs on Canada especially were unnecessary and (is and) will bring unnecessary pain to US and Canadian citizens.    Worse, he has single-handedly damaged our great relationship with Canada and other nations.

Balls, right.   The guy is an irresponsible buffoon.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
1.1.13  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.10    2 days ago

Good night, Vic. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @1.1.13    23 hours ago

See you later, Buzz

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.12    23 hours ago

All we are saying is give peace a chance

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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.11    23 hours ago
Republicans are the ones shutting down the government,

A slogan from 1984?


 but this is what the larger minority of Americans wanted

That's a new one.


We get this insanity for the next four years 

I'm sure it feels that way. It may continue for a lot more than 4 years.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.1.17  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.16    23 hours ago

original

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @1.1.17    23 hours ago

the-real-virus-threatening-america-schiff-pelosi-nadler-watters.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.15    23 hours ago

Exactly, there is no defense for Trump’s actions.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
PhD Guide
2  Right Down the Center    3 days ago

I have to wonder if trump and the Republicans aren't going too far with some of the things they are doing without any concern for the pendulum swinging back

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    3 days ago

 Yeah, it’s always best to assume whatever precedents you will create will be used against you when in the minority

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Sean Treacy @2.1    3 days ago

What comes around will go around

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
2.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    3 days ago
I have to wonder if trump and the Republicans aren't going too far with some of the things they are doing without any concern for the pendulum swinging back

Yes.  There's no wishy washy answer, IMO.  People in the administration have been pointing out they'll make mistakes.  Trump's overall strategy is to go far too far.

Past reforms failed because the Powers That Be was avoiding mistakes.  The safest approach is to do nothing so reforms were never sufficient to make a difference.  It appears that Trump's plan is to tear down everything, bad and good, and then rebuild the good.  

The loyal opposition can't stop the wrecking ball by hiding their pet programs behind a veneer.  Everything gets torn down.  What we don't need will be eliminated.  And what we do need can be rebuilt.  (That would be consistent with the mindset of a property developer, wouldn't it?)

People (particularly Democrats) want to paint REGO 2.0 as being totally different than Slick Willie's original REGO.  But painting the wrecking ball a different color doesn't change the reality of what happened then and what is happening now.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    3 days ago

Duh.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.3    3 days ago

Maybe it is the other way around. Maybe Trump is doing what they've done.

GluE6HXWIAACLGK?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
2.3.2  charger 383  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.3    3 days ago

As seeder responded to 2.3 flags by other members were dismissed and the comment stays

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.3.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.1    3 days ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.3.4  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  charger 383 @2.3.2    3 days ago

[deleted][]

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
2.4  Robert in Ohio  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    3 days ago

RDtC

They absolutely are

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.5  bugsy  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    3 days ago

I don't think it really matters. No matter what is done, whatever democrat takes the presidency next (God forbid), they will just fully fund all of those democrat slush funds back to the original amounts.

 
 
 
George
Senior Expert
3  George    3 days ago
$68 billion that Mexicans who work in the US send back to Mexico. 

This is low hanging fruit, 50% tax on all money transfers leaving the US. 

 
 
 
Robert in Ohio
Professor Guide
3.1  Robert in Ohio  replied to  George @3    3 days ago

Will that 50% tax apply to the money Trump and his ilk move to offshore banking facilities in the Caribbean and elsewhere?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  George @3    3 days ago

I'm all for it.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
4  Nerm_L    3 days ago

Never let a crisis go to waste.  

China will be pressuring Canada to lift tariffs on EVs.  China needs to control the US market for EVs to avoid future competition.  Both Canada and Mexico are potential avenues for China EVs entering the US market.  (Doesn't hurt China's electronics manufacturers, either.)

Canada really has been playing both sides of the street since Obama's for/against position on Keystone XL.  Obama treated Canada like 'clingers'.  Yes, boys and girls, it really was Obama that poisoned the good will with Canada.  

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5  Dig    3 days ago

Um...Hello? Doesn't anyone remember econ class? Trade deficits aren't automatically a bad thing.

At $28 trillion, US GDP has literally doubled since the end of the Great Recession. Trade deficits were there the whole time.

One more time...GDP has doubled since 2009, and trade deficits were there the whole time.

Starting a completely unnecessary trade war and upending relations with some of our closest geopolitical friends is nothing but stupid, and will cause nothing but harm.

It is beyond me how anyone could have missed this, but Trump is a fucking moron. He's never had a successful business that didn't involve real estate, and that's because real estate tends to appreciate on its own, regardless of who owns it. Ventures of his that actually required skillful and knowledgeable management have all crashed and burned. The guy couldn't even make money with a casino, for crying out loud.

In his first term, people around him kept his stupidity somewhat in check, but not his time. This time it's all toadies and yes men.

In addition to the damage already done to our reputation internationally, especially regarding Ukraine and security in Europe, the coming recession is on you, Trump voters. You did this.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5    3 days ago

These trade wars will be ugly at first, but the US will be the beneficiary in the end.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    3 days ago

We have been on the losing end of trade for too long and way too generous with other countries

I think Canada is the one country we can be generous to

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  charger 383 @5.1.1    3 days ago

How generous should we be?

Why doesn't Canada offer to help out with the Iron Dome plan and offer some bases or build some ice cutters to patrol the northern region?

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.3  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1    3 days ago
but the US will be the beneficiary in the end.

No we won't. How? Nobody benefits from trade wars. Like I said, doesn't anyone remember econ class?

Even if Trump's retarded tariffs cause a few producers to build factories here instead of elsewhere, the goods produced will be more expensive, for obvious reasons. That means less consumption.

Not to mention retaliatory tariffs placed on us, which will also translate into less consumption.

If this goes on for very long, the only result will be a smaller economy. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.3    3 days ago

You keep forgetting that it is the countries dealing with the US who have the high tariffs. Let them bring them down and we will have a fair playing field. The US has the nig market. Our neighbors need us more than we need them. Bring down the tariffs on our products and then we'll all be friends again.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.5  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    3 days ago

Did you miss what I posted about our GDP doubling since 2009?

Trade deficits are not automatically a bad thing, A few hundred billion to Canada and Mexico is peanuts compared to the $28 trillion economy we have now....or had before Trump took office.

Intentionally starting a trade war is the height of stupidity, and people are going to suffer.

Turn on the news. Trump just increased tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel to 50%, and markets are continuing to fall.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.5    3 days ago
few hundred billion to Canada and Mexico is peanuts compared to the $28 trillion economy we have now.

We have a national debt that exceeds the GDP.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.7  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.6    3 days ago

Intentionally contracting the economy won't help that. Neither will $4.5 trillion in tax cuts.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.7    3 days ago
contracting the economy

I see jobs coming back to America.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.9  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.8    3 days ago

What jobs? Our economy was the envy of the world when Trump took office, with an already healthy unemployment rate of around 4%. Any jobs created specifically because of this stupid trade war will be more costly and won't last.

What you're actually going to see are job losses when Trump's recession hits.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.9    3 days ago
Our economy was the envy of the world when Trump took office,

You mean up until Dr Fauci called for a shutdown.

All Biden did was build up the public sector and print money.

What you're actually going to see are job losses when Trump's recession hits.

Things may get tough because medicine is tough to take, but I am sure the Trump economy will be back, better than ever.

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.11  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.10    3 days ago
You mean up until Dr Fauci called for a shutdown.

Huh? I'm talking about 7 weeks ago, when Trump took office. We were in a stronger position than the rest of the world.

Things may get tough because medicine is tough to take, but I am sure the Trump economy will be back, better than ever.

How exactly is a trade war going to turn out well? Serious question.

Trade we lose isn't guaranteed to come right back when it's over. It's not like throwing a switch. Customers for our products will seek other suppliers during the chaos, and might very well stick with them afterwards. Some trade will be permanently lost.

And again, any jobs created directly as a result of Trump's tariffs will cost more and won't have staying power.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
5.1.12  Freefaller  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.2    3 days ago
offer some bases or build some ice cutters to patrol the northern region?

3 new Operational Hubs have recently been stood up in Iqaluit, Inuvik and Yellowknife and a multi-billion dollar contract has just been awarded for 2 new icebreakers to increase Canadian norther presence

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Freefaller @5.1.12    3 days ago

Good to hear. Are you Canadian?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.11    3 days ago
How exactly is a trade war going to turn out well? Serious question.

Since the end of WWII the US has allowed the world to rebuild and stabilize their own economies via trade surpluses with the US.

Don't you think it is time to end it?  Serious question.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
5.1.15  Freefaller  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.13    3 days ago

Dual citizen, US by birth and Canadian by immigration

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Freefaller @5.1.15    3 days ago

I know someone who is the same. He works for the government in Montreal. He had to learn to speak "perfect" French.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
5.1.17  Freefaller  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.16    3 days ago

Lol better than me I've been in Canada for 59 years and can't speak more than a few phrases of french

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Freefaller @5.1.17    3 days ago

It depends on what part of Canada, right?

I am glad the new PM backed down on that electric tariff

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
5.1.19  Freefaller  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.18    3 days ago

Absolutely, what little I know I learned living in Ottawa (just across the river from Quebec) for 4 years and working with french people while in the military

The new Prime Minister had nothing to do with the electricity tariff, that was the Premier of Ontario, two different people representing two different political affiliations at two different levels of government

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.20  charger 383  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.2    3 days ago

Canada could do a little more but keeping a good relationship is more important than tariffs on them. They are very much like us and we share a long border. They are the one country we should give breaks to.  

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
5.1.21  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.14    3 days ago
Since the end of WWII the US has allowed the world to rebuild and stabilize their own economies via trade surpluses with the US.

And all the while we were the top economy and top superpower. The so-called 'golden age of capitalism' occurred during that time, from the end of the war through the 60's. 

Don't you think it is time to end it?  Serious question.

The growth we've seen isn't exactly evidence of a need to. But if we do it, it should happen in a slow, methodological and thoughtful manner, operating in good faith with our trading partners in order to minimize pain. Not through a careless, broad brush, rapid and bad faith trade war like what Trump is doing. 

Hell, Trump negotiated the current trade agreement with Canada and Mexico in his first term, calling it the best thing ever at the time. Now he's asking who negotiated things like Canada selling us electricity, as if he doesn't realize it was him. How stupid can he be?

There, I answered your serious question, how about answering mine? How will initiating a rapid, reckless, bad faith trade war with our closest partners turn out well? How will it do anything but make things even more expensive, contract the economy, and diminish our standing in the world?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.22  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dig @5.1.21    2 days ago
There, I answered your serious question, how about answering mine? How will initiating a rapid, reckless, bad faith trade war with our closest partners turn out well? How will it do anything but make things even more expensive, contract the economy, and diminish our standing in the world?

In the end we will have a fair-trade agreement and maybe by October of this year it will all fade from memory.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.23  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  charger 383 @5.1.20    2 days ago
They are the one country we should give breaks to.

In a way I wish Trump had left trade with Canada until after Canada's October elections.

He seems to have revived the Liberal Party up there.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.24  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Freefaller @5.1.19    2 days ago
The new Prime Minister had nothing to do with the electricity tariff, that was the Premier of Ontario, two different people representing two different political affiliations at two different levels of government

Point well taken.

And I should note that the Premier of Ontario has since backed off.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
5.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Dig @5    3 days ago
At $28 trillion, US GDP has literally doubled since the end of the Great Recession. Trade deficits were there the whole time. One more time...GDP has doubled since 2009, and trade deficits were there the whole time.

Not quite.  The GDP in 2009 was $16.5 trillion and GDP for the 4th quarter 2024 was $23.5 trillion.  So, GDP has increased by a factor of 1.42.    

Over the same time period, inflation has devalued the dollar by 2/3.  So, that magic basket of goods used to measure inflation costs 1.5 times more today than in 2009.  Check it yourself here:  

What that means is GDP growth has not kept pace with inflation.  And the trade deficit is a significant contributor for why GDP has not kept pace with inflation.  The lesson that should be learned is that printing more money does not create more wealth.  The United States cannot import prosperity.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6  author  Vic Eldred    3 days ago

Russian President Vladimir Putin remains unwilling to compromise in peace talks, complicating U.S. President Donald Trump's efforts to secure a settlement, Bloomberg reported on March 10, citing undisclosed Western security officials.

Putin has deliberately set "maximalist" demands on territory,  peacekeepers , and Ukraine's neutrality, knowing they will likely be unacceptable to Kyiv and European nations, the outlet wrote.

Putin unwilling to compromise on Ukraine, sets maximalist demands, Bloomberg reports

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Is this deal really possible?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
6.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    3 days ago

The better question to be asked is if the world can afford Ukraine to fall. Putin will not stop there. He already has called Poland that Poland is at risk of losing their statehood:

Since when do we support the aggressor?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1    3 days ago
He already has called Poland that Poland is at risk of losing their statehood:

Poland became a NATO member in 1999. Putin will not move against Poland.


Since when do we support the aggressor?

Never

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1    3 days ago
in will not stop there. He already has called Poland that Poland is at risk of losing their statehood:

Poland is not Ukraine. Its a bigger country with more resources.  Moreover, unlike Russia it  hasn't been fighting in a quagmire for three years and has, I believe, has been building up its defenses the last few year. Even without NATO, it's doubtful Russia could beat Poland in a war, absent significantly more help than its getting from China/North Korea. 

Its been three years and Russia still can't  conquer Ukraine.  It's not the goliath it was pre-breakup and it's not a threat to western europe, except as the junior partner in a coalition with China. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.1.2    3 days ago

With all due respect Sean, are you sure Poland is bigger than Ukraine.

Are you sure that any European country is stronger than Ukraine.

What makes Poland safer is that if they are attacked, they will immediately enact Article 5. In that case it will come down to which has more guts NATO or Russia.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
6.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.3    3 days ago
What makes Poland safer is that if they are attacked, they will immediately enact Article 5. In that case it will come down to which has more guts NATO or Russia.

I would agree with that, except that there has been talk about pulling out of NATO.

And Ukraine has a lot more assets that are wanted by both us and Russia. Do we really want Russia to have them?

And if Ukraine falls because we are no longer giving it intel, what kind of message is that to Russia?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.4    3 days ago
I would agree with that, except that there has been talk about pulling out of NATO.

By whom?  Certainly not by Poland. If you are referring to Trump, I hope you realize that he says things to motivate others. I am certain that the US is not about to leave NATO.


And Ukraine has a lot more assets that are wanted by both us and Russia. Do we really want Russia to have them?

Of course not. That is why our President tried to get Zelensky signed onto a rare minerals deal about a month ago. Does Zelensky have writers cramp. I hope his fingers aren't broken.


And if Ukraine falls because we are no longer giving it intel, what kind of message is that to Russia?

That would be the wrong signal. I believe that pause is about to end, especially after what Putin had to say today.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Expert
6.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.5    3 days ago
Of course not. That is why our President tried to get Zelensky signed onto a rare minerals deal about a month ago. Does Zelensky have writers cramp. I hope his fingers aren't broken.

Do we know what that agreement said? How long or how much? Maybe that is the issue.

I believe that pause is about to end, especially after what Putin had to say today.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.1.6    3 days ago
Do we know what that agreement said? How long or how much? Maybe that is the issue.

From Zelensky himself: He wants plenty of security. That was supposed to be what he got out of Peace negotiations, which leads to the question of does he really want a Peace deal?  Maybe he just wants security.


I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Putin said no withdrawal and no peacekeepers.

Putin unwilling to compromise on Ukraine, sets maximalist demands, Bloomberg reports

I'm not sure that Machiavelli could negotiate a Peace deal between Zelensky and Putin.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.7    3 days ago
I'm not sure that Machiavelli could negotiate a Peace deal between Zelensky and Putin.

Not if the negotiator parrots Putin's talking points and gives Putin propaganda showing the PotUS claiming Ukraine started the war and 'has no cards' and then compromises Ukraine's ability to defend themselves prior to the negotiations.

Trump is a buffoon.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @6.1.8    2 days ago

Here is where we are as of today:

"Putin has demanded Ukraine "must formally commit to neutrality, abandon any ambition to join NATO, demilitarize and recognize Russian claims to annexed territory", Bloomberg reports. Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has already "ruled out European peacekeepers" being sent in to keep the situation under control."

Vladimir Putin's three ridiculous demands to finally end Ukraine invasion in full - World News - Mirror Online

As I already told you: the hard part will be getting Putin to back up as much as possible. So now the pressure will be placed on Putin with sanctions.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.1.10  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.9    2 days ago
As I already told you: the hard part will be getting Putin to back up as much as possible.

You did not have to tell me or anyone else what is blatantly obvious.   Of course Putin is going to be difficult;  he invaded Ukraine for a reason and has lost substantial blood, treasure, and political capital in the process.   He has to walk away with enough to save face.

That is why I told you that we need to shore up Ukraine in order to negotiate from a position of strength.

And this is also quite obvious and should not even need saying.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
6.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @6    3 days ago
Is this deal really possible?

Is what really possible?  Maybe we should just give Zelensky what he wants.  Tie a ribbon and bow on a nuke and ship to Kiev.  Then Zelensky could be the deterrent against Russian aggression.  Or ground zero.  

A nuclear war in Ukraine couldn't be much worse than Chernobyl.  

Zelensky wants to be the decisionmaker so give him the tools to decide.  Peace or utter destruction, make a choice.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @6.2    3 days ago

I couldn't agree more.

Zelensky has to believe that Russia is on its hands & knees. I know the Ukrainian military reported on very low morale among Russian POWs. Could that be part of it?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
6.2.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.1    3 days ago
Zelensky has to believe that Russia is on its hands & knees. I know the Ukrainian military reported on very low morale among Russian POWs. Could that be part of it?

I'd be surprised if Russian morale didn't factor in.  IMO the , that everyone ignores, is reconstruction and reparations.  My read has been that Trump wants the minerals deal to help pay for reconstruction.  If the US owns it then China can't swoop in to exploit the situation.

I'm waiting for Zelensky to renew calls for China's involvement in the peace negotiations.  Zelensky does seem to be setting up Trump to fail and justify inviting someone else to the negotiating table.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @6.2.2    3 days ago
Zelensky does seem to be setting up Trump to fail and justify inviting someone else to the negotiating table.  

He did come to America to campaign for Kamala at the height of the election, so it is very possible.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
6.2.4  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.3    3 days ago
He did come to America to campaign for Kamala at the height of the election, so it is very possible.

Biden paid for the party.  So, that's not too surprising.  Just a little bit of that USAID friendliness.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @6.2.4    3 days ago

Aid can do wonders.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7  author  Vic Eldred    3 days ago

Glu6JUEWgAAV3JP?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Dig
Professor Participates
7.1  Dig  replied to  Vic Eldred @7    3 days ago

Lunacy.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
8  Hallux    3 days ago

          It puts tariffs as high as 250% on American butter or milk or lumber.

@!@

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
9  Sean Treacy    3 days ago

So much for the great electricity surcharge to destroy America...

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
10  freepress    3 days ago

Apparently no MAGA on earth bothered to see the massive countrywide support for the woman president leading Mexico to a new proud nationalist future. The thousands and thousands of people cheering in a viral photo walking with their president was inspiring.

Apparently no MAGA bothered to listen to the gracious Trudeau speech and peaceful transition. The speech new Prime Minister Carney gave spelled out quite clearly their new nationalism with the support of the Canadian voters. 

Other countries can adopt their own nationalism, but I guarantee you they did not elect anyone who was foolish enough to crash their own economies the way Trump and Musk have. 

If MAGA wants to make excuses for the economic destruction in America to excuse Trump and Musk, it isn't going to work. You like it until it hurts you.

Don't be angry at other countries awakening their own brand of nationalism. Look in the mirror and ask why is the MAGA brand of nationalism looking more like economic disaster and a budding dictatorship failing to follow laws.

 
 

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