Is Hamas elected to rule Gaza ? I hope that helps
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No, Hamas has not been elected since 2006. In the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections, Hamas won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council, defeating the rival Fatah movement of President Mahmoud Abbas 12. Hamas has been the de facto authority in Gaza since shortly after Israel withdrew from the territory in 2005 . However, no new elections have been held since 2006 .
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Thank you to Bing GPT4 chat for the information.
We have heard , a lot, here, about how Gazans have elected Hamas and therefore the civilians are complicit in Hamas activities.
The last election in Gaza appears to have been 17 years ago. That is a long time and is conceivably in no way indicative of the 2023 situation there.
I am sure most people who talk about Hamas being "elected" dont know its been 17 years since they were elected, so lets see what people say now.
I would wager that included you also.
So Hamas has ruled Gaza for 17 years, they were elected.
That's why he "bing-ed" it
I dont have enough breaths left in my body to waste one replying to you.
But you just did!
But I can understand, when you can't make an intelligent or cogent response, you pull out the dismissive insult card.
"Sure"? There's a word for that-- its called an "assumption". (Which, in my experience, is one of a few illogical ways some people keep social media dumbed down).
"Sure"? There's a word for that-- its called an "assumption".
I for one am well acquainted with the facts. Partially because I have lived in Israel for short periods of time-- on several occasions.
. I have lived on a Kibbutz (a collective farm) twice, decades apart. On one trip I flew to Egypt. (And not as relevant, but i've spent time in Marocco as a tourist).
What people here may or may not find interesting is that I almost entered Gaza when it was safe-- as a tourist! (I will be doing an article about that in the near future)
What does any of your last two comments have to do with the fact that the last election in gaza was 17 years ago?
As usual, Bing GPT4 is wrong. Today Hamas holds the majority of seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council (as either the Change & Reform party or as the Islamic Resistance Movement).
Hamas has embedded itself into the governing authority of the Palestinian State through popular support by the Palestinian people. Other terrorist organizations also claim authority by popular support. The Palestinian State is a terror state which means the Palestinian State does not have a right to exist.
Popular support for terrorist organizations in the Palestinian Authority means a two state solution is impossible. Palestine has given up its right to exist as a nation.
No elections, how can that be. No uprising, no requests for international help requests to establish democracy. Did the Arab Spring winds even blow there for a moment?
We have seen numerous people here on Newstalkers and elsewhere refer to Hamas as the elected government in Gaza. An election that was last held 17 years ago isnt worth spit.
That is your opinion John, nothing more, have the people living in Gaza asked for elections?, have they made any effort to change their government? or are they perfectly happy with how they were governed and just blamed the Jewish people for their troubles? it appears they consented to being governed by Hamas so yes, Hamas is their duly elected government.
A government that has not been elected in 17 years is closer to being a dictatorship than a democracy.
I know people are surprised to know Hamas has not been elected in 17 years but it is what it is.
John, let me know when you get the goalposts where you want them, the term was government, not democracy, not republic, not....... Government, if they haven't asked for elections then they have consented to the government they have.
Fatah and the West Bank hasn't had an election since then either. Perhaps those fine people prefer it that way.
Your idea that unless a population creates an uprising against a government it is happy with it , is illogical and silly.
But maybe the people in Gaza are happy with Hamas, I dont know. And neither do you.
We have had numerous people make the argument here that Hamas has been elected to rule Gaza. Yeah, if you consider an election 17 years ago to be relevant.
This poll is almost 2 1/2 years old but it found:
JERUSALEM (AP) — A new poll released Tuesday finds a dramatic surge in Palestinian support for Hamas following last month’s Gaza war, with around three quarters viewing the Islamic militants as victors in a battle against Israel to defend Jerusalem and its holy sites.
The scientific poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research also found plummeting support for President Mahmoud Abbas, who was sidelined by the war but is seen internationally as a partner for reviving the long-defunct peace process.
The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people, ” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
You know, John, you should be doing "stand-up" but unfortunately there isn't a borscht belt any more. Try as you might, you're simply not succeeding in convincing anyone that an elected government that has never been replaced or challenged for 17 years and still rules the roost isn't tantamount to a more recently elected government. Give it up already.
You cant be serious. What kind of government cancels elections or doesnt hold them for decades? An autocratic government. You were all happy to talk about Hamas being "elected" when you thought it was recently. But 17 years ago? Now you have to try and explain it away.
Perhaps not.
But what is worth knowing is why? Why hasn't Hamas allowed an election for such a long time!!!
(So with your vast knowledge of the area, and your great expertise in Middle_Eastern affairs-- could you possibly enlighten us as to why, in 17 years, Gaza's governing body has steadfastly refused to have elections?
["Asking for a Friend"]
Ding, Ding, Ding!
Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!
Your vast expertise has paid off!
You are correct John.
The current rulers of Gaza got into power by an election-- and have for years decided not to become a democracy, but rather continue to be-- "autocratic"!
Not really sure if you're being serious here, John or if it's simply more of the doublespeak you're always attempting in here. It seems to me as if you yourself just discovered that the sun rises in the east and just assumed that no one else was aware of that. Meanwhile, everyone else is trying to figure out how to respond to a statement so obvious that no one would think to mention it.
On the off chance you are being serious, I think most people here would be surprised if Hamas actually had elections rather than not. Rather like having once voted to give the psychopath the gun the psychopath would occasionally ask, "are you sure?"
It appears to me that you're the only one who is in dire need of an explanation.
By the way, more putting words in my mouth, eh John? Are you pretending to be telepathic by posting what you say is in my mind?
Anybody agree with you yet, John? I see an awful lot of disagreement in the comments here.
As I said, John, give it up already.
I will respond to you with one simple question. If everyone knew that there have been no elections there for 17 years, why do we have people saying, fairly often, that Hamas has been elected (as a way of trying to make Gaza civilians complicit) ?. An election 17 years ago is no better than no election at all. I'll ignore your lame insults towards me.
That was a general "you" toward everyone who acts like the fact that they havent has an election in 17 years is meaningless. [Deleted]
Nowhere did I say "recent" election or "current" election, and as far and just about anyone around here knows they are an elected government.
Answer: Because they are complicit. Apparently, you feel, simply on your say so, that an election that factually put Hamas in power somehow doesn't count because of some arbitrary time period. You also ignore that same time period as 17 years for the Palestinians to correct their mistake, if they even see it as such. At the least, they gave a rabid, vicious dog power and did nothing to alter it. At worst, they actually supported it.
17 years, John. 17 years of misery inflicted on everyone around them, including themselves, by Hamas, and they never did anything to fight back. Why? Because they supported them, that's why. And now they are suffering the consequences for their actions or inactions. This upsets you. Apparently, you think the moral high ground for Israel is to just continue on letting its citizens suffer under constant threat for eternity or the Jihadists actually succeed in murdering every Israeli.
Give it up, John. No one here is stupid enough to buy what you're selling.
I tried to set him straight, I tried and tried, but no luck. Thanks for taking over the stubborn attempts to justify his bleeding heart in opposition to those of us whose heads aren't in the clouds.
Your comment is ridiculous. More than half the Gaza population today wasnt born 17 years ago, and yet you put them under some sort of collective blame. Do you know everything that has gone into Hamas retaining political control of Gaza? I totally doubt it.
More than half?.. so a large population of young military age people?
For fucks sake, it was 17 years ago. No election in the universe is in effect 17 years later.
I'm not saying Hamas is a worthy government , or a good government, or a peaceful government, I am saying they are not an elected government . It is OFTEN stated, pseudo-authoritatively , that Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. That hasnt been reasonably true in at least 10 years.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza, that you think it's not reasonably true has nothing whatsoever to do with the veracity of that statement.
They didnt even get half the vote in 2006
Who decided on the vote allocation results?
Don’t Blame Gazans for Hamas
The terrorist group has never been very popular among the people it rules.
Don’t Blame Gazans for Hamas ( https_nymag.com)
...Claims that the people of Gaza are responsible for Hamas rest on two central pillars, both deeply flawed. The first is that Gaza voted for Hamas in the Palestinian legislative elections in 2006, which led to the group taking power by force the next year. The second is that if Gaza residents don’t want to be governed by a terrorist organization, they could throw Hamas out. Since they haven’t done so over the last 17 years, this implies acquiescence at least, if not affirmative approval of Hamas’ ideology and activities.
To begin with, most Gazans alive today were either not yet born or not yet adults when that election took place. Hamas won it with less than 45 percent of the vote in Gaza and the West Bank, though it did win a clear majority in Gaza City. And polling data suggested that voters were motivated not by Hamas’ eliminationist stance toward Israel, but rather its promises to clean up corruption and improve internal security. In fact, an exit poll from that election found that three-quarters of Palestinian voters wanted Hamas to change its stance on Israel and around 80 percent supported a peace agreement.
And of course, the Palestinians haven’t gotten a second chance at democracy. When Hamas took over in 2007, it expelled the Palestinian Authority and formed its own Islamist government in Gaza. This violent takeover scuttled a national unity government and led to an acrimonious split between Palestinian leadership in Gaza and the West Bank, which persists to this day and has become one of the main obstacles to progress toward peace or Palestinian statehood. Hamas, which does not actually believe in democracy, has not held further elections or allowed the operation of any political opposition in Gaza. That’s the inherent vulnerability of democracy to authoritarianism; democrats need to keep winning elections, whereas dictators only need to win once.
Recent survey data paints a much more complicated picture of Gazan public opinion than conventional wisdom would have you believe. In a Washington Institute poll in July, a 57 percent majority indicated a positive opinion of Hamas, but greater numbers expressed positive views of both Fatah (the secular party in charge of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank) and other armed groups. However, over 60 percent supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel, and 50 percent said Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction and support a two-state solution instead. Other recent polling from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that 77 percent of Gazans want new legislative and presidential elections in the Palestinian territories, but 67 percent of all Palestinians don’t see that happening anytime soon. In a hypothetical election, Hamas would win slightly over Fatah, 34 to 31 percent, but a 43 percent plurality of Palestinians believe neither group deserves to represent them.
Meanwhile, 73 percent said they believed there was corruption in Hamas-run institutions in the Gaza Strip, and 59 percent of Gazans said they could not criticize Hamas authorities without fear. These data points are important in understanding why the second part of the argument for collective blame (“Why don’t they just get rid of them?”) is nonsensical.
Overthrowing a government, even in a pseudo-state like Gaza, is much easier said than done. This is doubly true when the government is a violent organization of religious fanatics. Many Gazans would prefer not to be governed by Hamas militants, but they can’t simply start up a campaign to get rid of them — not without grave risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. For one thing, they are too busy struggling to survive from day to day. For another, Hamas cements its hold on power through an outsize role in the Gazan economy: It is the only organization that can reliably pay salaries, it maintains a stranglehold on inflows of foreign aid, and it keeps Gaza dependent on Israel for water and electricity by refusing to build infrastructure instead of rockets. If your ability to feed your family depends on Hamas patronage, even if you’d like to stand up to them, why risk it?
If Israel waits around for Gazans to get rid of Hamas before making an effort at peace, they will be waiting forever. Of course, that suits the country’s far right just fine. Netanyahu and his allies have done a poor job concealing their tacit support for Hamas — they reason that as long as Gaza is under the control of a terrorist organization, there can be no serious talk of a Palestinian state. Supporters of Israel often say that no country could be expected to tolerate a terror group hell-bent on its destruction, operating right on its borders. The outrageous truth is that Israel, under a series of increasingly right-wing governments, has been doing exactly that for nearly two decades. Netanyahu’s cynical policy of allowing Hamas to operate while keeping Gaza under siege and periodically “mowing the grass” with bombing campaigns to contain Palestinian militias’ ability to launch attacks has been a great disservice to both Israel and the Palestinians.
In some sense, if Israel were to destroy Hamas for good in this war (a dubious proposition), it would be doing the Gazans a favor. However, the Israeli government’s thirst for revenge is not coupled with any plans for what comes after: Who will rebuild Gaza, who will govern it, and how will it avoid falling into an even greater humanitarian catastrophe? It is easy not to think about these questions if your starting point is that the Gazans had it coming.
If the war leads to both Hamas and Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition losing popular legitimacy and exiting the scene, it would be a silver lining to a very dark cloud since neither Israelis nor Palestinians deserve the mediocre leadership they’ve been saddled with. But at least the Israelis have some power to change that if they want to. The people of Gaza do not.
You are all over the place here John.
I tried to post an IMPASSE at this point because I see no reason to waste any more of my time on it, but the NT system did not allow it. It gave me this message:
...and I simply CANNOT see the logic for tying my hands from trying to end a useless dialogue.
Hamas is at best tolerated by the Gazans. In polling they have nowhere near majority support.
That is my only point with this seed.
You've take a beating on this seed, but I am with you.
The people of Gaza made the same mistake as the Iranians after they removed the Shah. The Iranians selected the Islamic government. They have been trying to get out from under it for decades. In Gaza people thought Hamas would not be as corrupt as Fatah, and they voted Hamas into power. Like Iran, there will never be another real election without bloodshed.
Religious governments believe they are doing what God wants, so if you’re not in agreement with them, you are serving the devil. Barry Goldwater made the following statement in 1994:
Saying Hamas was elected is the same as saying the Iranian government was elected, true but sorely lacking in context. Once autocratic types have achieved power, elections are circumvented. Putin was originally elected, but elections since then are nothing more than theater.
It is unfair to point to the election of Hamas at this point. A majority of the Palestinians in Gaza do not support what is happening now. They wanted the cease-fire to be maintained. But that’s not what God wants. Susan B Anthony said the following:
Where does Hamas recruit new members? Is Hamas importing fighters (and terrorists) from outside Palestine? Who digs the tunnels in Gaza? Who builds the rockets in Gaza? Who takes supplies from the civilian population to manufacture weapons?
Hamas continues to exist because Palestinians are joining Hamas. Hamas does rely on recruitment in Lebanon, Syria, or Iran. Hamas is a homegrown domestic terrorist organization.
Hamas exists because there is no bloodless way to get rid of it as the ruling party in Gaza. It's also the case that Netanyahu has propped up Hamas -- having a crazy party in Gaza helps with the theft of the West Bank. Turned out to be a bad strategy.
It is obviously true that Palestinians are joining Hamas, but their military is estimated at 40K. This is less than 2% of the population in the strip. If 1% of the world's Muslims were crazy Hamas types, that would be vastly more people than the combined armies of the world. Once you gain control of the government and the purse-strings thereof, it doesn't take all that many to maintain control.
Of curse they don't, they are getting their ass handed to them. My question (which I have not seen and answer other than conjecture) is how many of the Palestinians in Gaza were OK with what Hamas did to Israel before the bombs started heading their way?
I am not sure how much that matters now, they are all paying the price for what their "government" decided to do with the total brutality they decided to do it.
I have noticed that. I take "refuge" behind two things . I consider the source, and I am fairly sure I am more well read on these topics than some the people attacking me. I usually speak out in an intelligent way and that drives the right wingers crazy.
I am about as far from an anti-semite as one could be, but I also understand that the issue there is much more complicated than Arab haters know.
Gaza is not the West Bank. The problem is that the Palestinian Authority has little authority in Gaza. Abbas wants Jerusalem so Gaza is little more than a distraction for establishing a Palestinian State. That's why the idea of a three state solution is still considered in diplomatic circles. Abbas cannot control Gaza so Hamas is also a thorn in the side of the Palestinian Authority.
Hamas terrorism has gone on too long to baffle people with bullshit. Hamas was created by Palestinians as a nationalist movement to influence the creation of a Palestinian State. Hamas is made up entirely of Palestinians. Hamas is not Iranian, Syrian, or Lebanese. Hamas is also more than just a military or militant organization.
If only 1 pct of the world's Muslims were terrorists then terrorism wouldn't be such a large problem. These crazy Hamas types, as you call them, are embedded in Muslim culture. Muslim terrorists actually attack and kill more Muslims than non-Muslims.
Hamas was not elected to lord over Gaza, they were elected 17 years ago, to be the majority in a legislative body that would advocate for the Palestinian cause across the entire region. Even so they won with less than a majority of the votes. Hamas still has support in Gaza, but it is far from a majority of the people there (maybe a third) and that support is mainly based on Hamas being "the only game in town" in terms of opposing Israel.
I don't think conservatives are Arab haters in general, but in listening to their talk radio, FoxNews, and people here, they want/need there to be simple solutions to really complex problems. Remember the wall, bringing back coal, retiring the debt, replacing Obamacare with healthcare for everyone that's cheaper and better, ...
I've said before that if bombing the shit out of Gaza was a solution, they would not be bombing the shit out of Gaza. Hamas has an extensive system of tunnels. These are undoubtedly stocked with water, food, medical supplies and munitions, and these tunnels provide protection and protected movement. This likely means that the bombing will kill mostly civilians.
Like us immediately after 9/11, Israel had most of the world on their side after 10/7. But we went batshit crazy and instead of a few months of police action in Afghanistan, we ended up with decades of war. 7,500 of our own dead, tens of thousands wounded, $4,250B squandered, a civilian death toll of 400,000+, the rise of Iranian power and new, powerful Islamic terrorist groups. Something much smaller, but similar and just as hopeless, looks to be Israel's path.
Seems like a different approach must be considered. Maybe crush the attack, negotiate the freedom of the hostages and then do what they did after the '72 Munich Olympics Massacre -- systematically assassinate Hamas members. Obviously I don't know what's possible, but I do know that the US & Israel have sophisticated surveillance and weapons tech. Bring terror to the terrorists.
I agree. I think they should have eliminated the Hamas leadership, and the foot soldiers, over a period of time, like ,as you mention, Munich. Israel has a big enough military to protect its population in the meantime. Its too late for all that now though, and Netanyahu needs immediate revenge in order to have a sliver of a chance to retain power.
Support for Israel does not automatically mean hatred of Arabs/Muslims. Some of the comments you make, such as "I also understand that the issue there is much more complicated than Arab haters know." do not voice credibility.
I'd venture to say that due to what happened on Oct 7 it has failed rather miserably since Munich, so if your suggestion were followed I would venture that Israel would have to put up with a lot more rockets, missiles, drones, incendiary kites and terrorist attacks before the last Hamas or Islamic Jihad member is dead and gone. It isn't easy to find a terrorist who dresses like a civilian and is surrounded by and most likely supported by civilians.
I won’t argue with you about the worth of Hamas.
Negative value.
Let me re-state that in a way that might (hopefully) make it clear to you":
"In an election 17 years ago the Palestinians elected Hamas to be their rulers. And as the case with totalitarian, theocratic governments, in order to consolidate their iron grip on Gaza, Hamas has permitted no more elections since then.
And they prevented the people having say in the government by extremely brutal atrocities on their own citizens..
Oh-- and did I mention:
Then who should we blame then?
Hey, I know-- I've got a great idea!
LET'S BLAME THE JEWS!
Hamas won that election 44.5% to 41.4% it was close and the main point was the corrumption of PA. From that Hamas won a narrow election and took a fair election and turned Gaza into a dictatorship. It's simple as that.
Yeah, I said the same thing a few days ago.
He still thinks a "two state solution" is workable.
I wish Terrorist groups would be honest when they run for office. Elect us and you will never have to vote again!
It saves a lot of money and you don't have to see all those damn commercials over and over.
Still a song for the times, maybe more than ever
Whats Going On - Cyndi Lauper
Why is the Israeli government spending $1.5 million dollars on ads trying to convince people that Hamas is the same as ISIS?
Hamas is NOT ISIS.
You are correct, ISIS puts fighters on the battlefield to fight against their opponents and HAMAS hides like little bitches behind women and children.