Why the Donald Trump guilty verdict matters a lot - Los Angeles Times
By: Harry Litman (Los Angeles Times)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
It's of course true that come Nov. 5, the nation's voters could well decide to shrug off the historic guilty verdict that a Manhattan jury rendered against Donald Trump on Thursday afternoon. And that is the conclusion many have already reached about the seismic event that just took place in Room 1530 of the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse: It's hollow unless it ignites the will to deliver a popular denunciation of the former president this fall.
That analysis is, in my view, myopic.
It's always been the case that the American people can override the rule of law — a normally slight risk that has roared forward in recent years under the whip hand of a would-be tyrant. That's the message that a furious and ashen Trump delivered when he emerged from the courtroom where a jury of seven men and five women gave the prosecution all it asked for by convicting him on 34 felony counts. "The real verdict," Trump barked, "is going to be November 5th by the people."
In fact, the jury that delivered the real verdict, and the judge who presided over the hush money trial and is expected to sentence him in July, did their work conscientiously and even doggedly under a hailstorm of insults and threats from the defendant and his supporters. We have for years hoped for such a measure of accountability for the unrepentant former president. It finally arrived, and the center held.
Unlike the insults, the accolades showered on the jurors and Judge Juan M. Merchan are more than deserved. Having attended most of the trial, I think their seriousness of purpose matched the gravity of their duties.
But it wasn't just the determination of the jury, judge and prosecutors that forced Trump to endure weeks of damning testimony in person and to now face at least the possibility of a short prison term. And it wasn't just the resolve of the witnesses, some of whom retain loyalty or at least affection for Trump but understood their legal duty to testify truthfully.
Merchan's firm hold of the reins bolstered his authority, but what really made the difference was his robe, or what his robe represents. Trump was forced to submit to a whole regime that ultimately springs from our deepest constitutional values of fairness and equality before the law. How galling for a man who holds such deep contempt for — indeed seems incapable of apprehending — the rule of law rather than men.
Now what? First of all, Trump is an altered figure in the eyes of that law. No longer presumed innocent, he is proven guilty, a convict, a serial offender. And like any other convict, he will have to sit down for an interview with the probation office, which will prepare a report and recommendation for the judge based on its assessment of Trump's offenses and his acceptance of responsibility, among other factors. That doesn't augur well for a man who has spent a lifetime failing to own up to misconduct.
Merchan set sentencing for July 11, when he may well take into account Trump's perverse lack of remorse and contempt for the system that convicted him. The sentence will be at the discretion of the judge, who will no doubt strive to handle it as he would for any other similarly convicted felon.
Next will come the inevitable appeal of the conviction, in which Trump's lawyers will likely allege that the trial was tainted by several serious errors. And the legal issues here were complicated enough to present a risk of reversal regardless of how Merchan handled them.
But the measured pace of justice has finally ceased to serve Trump's interests in this case. It will be a year and a half or more before there is any possibility of a reversal of the sentence or conviction. By then, Trump figures to be either a convict in other forums — and today's groundbreaking result can only make convictions in his three other criminal cases more plausible — or a president taking a wrecking ball to the entire legal system.
Again, though, that prospect has always been on the horizon. The full and fair operation of the rule of law to hold a former president accountable, however, was not.
On the contrary, it has often seemed over the last few years as if some combination of power-mongering, legal bluster, friends in high places (some of them wearing judicial robes) and bizarre good luck would invariably combine to insulate Trump from the law that is supposed to apply to all of us. Indeed, we can fairly expect that at some point in the coming weeks, the U.S. Supreme Court will render an opinion that will serve both to elevate future presidents above the law to an extent and to forestall the most important trial Trump faces, the federal Jan. 6 case, until after the election.
Today, though, the law prevailed in a fashion that was at the same time basic and majestic. Trump received a fair trial and due process, no more and no less than the next defendant who will be in the same seat in the same dilapidated courtroom where he spent most of the last six weeks. Given all the powerful forces aligned against the rule of law in recent years, we should see that as nothing less than a triumph in and of itself.
Harry Litman is the host of the "Talking Feds" podcast and the Talking San Diego speaker series. @harrylitman
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I saw on tv this morning that a new ABC/Ipsos poll shows half of Americans saying Trump should drop out of the race. We can only hope.
He most definetey WON'T, but people can dream.
I'll be happy when he is out of thehuman race, standing on a truck, in the infield, of broken dreams
peace
pipe dope
I saw something on tv this morning that was far more interesting. It was on ABC's This Week, as a matter of fact.
One of the contributors there asked a monumental question:
"What happens to this country if Donald Trump, now convicted, loses a very close election in November and early next year the Manhattan verdict is overturned?"
Does anyone have an answer to that?
Sure, the end result will be that Trump will not be PotUS and will no longer be a convicted felon.
Then he can go play real estate mogul in Florida and the GOP can start healing from the Trump parasite.
The country will be rid of Trump and we can move on.
No, we won't be able to move on. That I'm sure of.
Violently overthrowing the government is not the answer Vic...
Trump has now been convicted of criminal conspiracy to illegally influence the 2016 Presidential election which adversely affected Hillary Clinton. What do you propose be done about that now?
Lock Him Up?
America will move on after Trump and his madness...
Leaving MAGA in our dust!
That is how life works, Vic. No matter how depressed one is about the current state of affairs, time will lessen the emotional burden. In addition, reality is constantly changing. There will be a time where Trump and all the disruption he has caused to our nation will be merely history for future generations to study (and hopefully prevent from recurring).
Very soon after we are rid of Trump, we will face new challenges and will focus on these with Trump as a mere memory.
Sweet!
Goodbye scum.
We will be able to move on.
maga may continue to fester in their state of denial
Why so dusty?
That's not going to happen LOL
Isn't it weird, when Rittenhouse was found not guilty, the right said exactly that, "you lost, move on".. But now that trump is a convicted felon the answer is, "no, we won't move on.."
Hypocrisy at it's finest
meh, it's been a doomsday election theme by republicans as far back as I can remember...
Why in the hell would it be overturned? Talk about wet dreams . . .lol
No standards other than double
We won't be rid of this scum until it dies.
He can't. His massive ego won't allow it
Biden should immediately pardon Trump, that would show the American people how benevolent, and fair minded he is.
The way it's looking now, all that Bragg and the leftist kangaroo court rigged trial accomplished is to make a martyr out of Trump. It enraged millions of Americans and could cause disaster for the Dems on Nov. 5
Biden can’t pardon trump, only the Governor of NY can.
Would trump pardon Biden if the roles were reversed? Never in a million years.. Fuck trump, let him rot in prison.
You will be greatly disappointed in his sentence.
as if that was possible, but hypothetically, only under the following conditions...
Lots of talking points and baseless rhetoric there... But.... Trump cannot be in the military, he is a convicted felon, so who will be in charge of the military? Commander in Chief is technically a military position.
Also, he can't vote in his state of record, Florida, because DeSantis said felons cannot vote. He cannot even go to Canada.
No, it’s not.
The President is the Civilian Commander of all US Military...
No shit.
Yes, every once in a while the military needs reminded of it!
That they work for civilian managers per The Constitution...
When was the last time?
You'd be in a better position to know that. Whan was it?
Politician make a big deal of it at Congressional hearings.
I think that at the Enterprise level, the Services understand completely who is in charge. When an individual military leader forgets his oath of office, he is usually dealt with think, McClellan replaced by Grant, MacArthur fired, MG Singlaub fired, Adm. Fox" Fallon resigned under pressure, Gen. Stanley McChrystal's resigned and retired.
www.latimes.com /opinion/story/2024-05-30/trump-verdict-hush-money
Editorial: Even before guilty verdict, Trump was unfit to serve - Los Angeles Times
The Times Editorial Board 3-4 minutes 5/31/2024
The felony conviction of Donald Trump in a Manhattan courtroom Thursday was a momentous event, even if the charges — falsifying business records — are less weighty than others the former president is facing. The prospect of a convicted felon being elected president ought to give pause to voters who haven’t been persuaded to reject him despite his manifest unfitness.
Trump was convicted of all 34 counts in the indictment accusing of him of falsifying business records related to payments to his former lawyer Michael Cohen. Prosecutors argued that the payments were reimbursements for money Cohen provided out of his own pocket to adult film star and director Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged sexual encounter in 2006 with Trump that if made public could have affected the outcome of the 2016 election.
Ordinarily, falsifying business records is a misdemeanor, but the prosecution contended that it rose to the level of a felony because it was done to conceal another crime such as a violation of federal campaign finance law. That layered argument provoked considerable criticism from actual lawyers and the armchair variety, but the jury seems to have grasped its complexity and concluded that Trump was guilty.
The charges of which Trump has been convicted pale in comparison with the other charges he faces connected with his attempt to overturn the 2020 election and his retention of national defense documents after he left the White House. Lamentably, it seems unlikely that he will face trial on those allegations before the November election. To its discredit, the Supreme Court has contributed to the delay of a trial of Trump on federal charges connected to the 2020 election by dithering on Trump’s absurd claim of immunity for “official acts,” defined broadly to cover some of his election-related actions.
Trump’s unfitness for another term as president does not depend on the outcome of any of these prosecutions. Even if he had been an exemplary chief executive — which he wasn’t — he should be disqualified for scheming to overturn the 2020 election , a disgraceful assault on democracy that culminated in the riot at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
Trump’s outrageous attempt to subvert the democratic process isn’t the only reason to oppose his return to the White House. He also should be rejected by voters because of his authoritarian tendencies , his propensity for falsehoods and his volatile temperament. The latter two character flaws were evident in his unhinged attacks on the judge in this case and his incredible claim that his prosecution by the state of New York was instigated by the Biden administration . (After the verdict was announced, Trump also asserted that the trial had been “rigged, ” the same absurd accusation he has continued to make about the 2020 election he lost.)
It shouldn’t take a criminal conviction to convince conscientious voters of Trump’s epic unfitness. But those who support him must now reckon with the fact that their candidate of choice is a convicted felon.
Matter? Yes Marge, Thirty Four Felony Criminal Convictions Matter...
34 convictions instead of 1 isn’t very relevant. It was one illegal action that used 11 checks. 11 invoices and 12 vouchers.
34 does sound better though, doesn’t it?
www.nbcnews.com /politics/donald-trump/trump-supporters-try-doxx-jurors-violent-threats-conviction-rcna154882
Trump supporters try to dox jurors and post violent threats after his conviction
By Ryan J. Reilly 5-7 minutes 5/31/2024
WASHINGTON — The 34 felony guilty verdicts returned against former President Donald Trump on Thursday spurred a wave of violent rhetoric aimed at the prosecutors who secured his conviction, the judge who oversaw the case and the ordinary jurors who unanimously agreed there was no reasonable doubt that the presumptive Republican presidential nominee falsified business records related to hush money payments to a porn star to benefit his 2016 campaign.
Advance Democracy, a nonprofit that conducts public interest research, said there has been a high volume of social media posts containing violent rhetoric targeting New York Judge Juan Merchan and Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, including a post with Bragg’s purported home address. The group also found posts of the purported addresses of jurors on a fringe internet message board known for pro-Trump content and harassing and violent posts, although it is unclear if any actual jurors had been correctly identified.
The posts, which have been reviewed by NBC News, appear on many of the same websites used by Trump supporters to organize for violence ahead of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol. These forums were hotbeds of threats inspired by Trump’s lies about the 2020 election, which he lost, and that the voting system was “rigged” against him. They now feature new threats echoing Trump’s rhetoric and false claims about the hush money trial, including that the judicial system is now “rigged” against him.
“Dox the Jurors. Dox them now,” one user wrote after Trump’s conviction on a website formerly known as “The Donald,” which was popular among participants in the Capitol attack . (That post appears to have been quickly removed by moderators.)
0 seconds of 2 minutes, 48 seconds Volume 90%
“We need to identify each juror. Then make them miserable. Maybe even suicidal,” wrote another user on the same forum. “1,000,000 men (armed) need to go to washington and hang everyone. That’s the only solution,” wrote another user. “This s--- is out of control.”
“I hope every juror is doxxed and they pay for what they have done,” another user wrote on Trump’s Truth Social platform Thursday. “May God strike them dead. We will on November 5th and they will pay!”
“War,” read a Telegram post from one chapter of the Proud Boys, the far-right group whose former chair and three other members were convicted of seditious conspiracy because of their actions at the Capitol on Jan. 6, just a few months after Trump infamously told the group to “ stand back and stand by ” during a 2020 debate .
“Now you understand. To save your nation, you must fight. The time to respond is now. Franco Friday has begun,” another Proud Boys chapter wrote, apparently referring to fascist dictator Francisco Franco of Spain.
One Jan. 6 defendant who already served time in prison for his role in the Capitol attack also weighed in on X, posting a photo of Bragg and a photo of a noose. “January 20, 2025 traitors Get The Rope,” he wrote, referring to the date of the next presidential inauguration.
The threats fit into an ongoing pattern. An NBC News analysis of Trump’s Truth Social posts earlier this year showed that he frequently uses the platform as a megaphone to attack people involved in his legal cases — and some of his supporters have responded. When the FBI searched Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in 2022, a Trump supporter who had been at the Capitol on Jan. 6 sent angry posts about the search and then attacked an FBI field office. When Trump made a social media post last June that included former President Barack Obama’s home address, a Jan. 6 rioter reposted it and then showed up at the residence. When Trump was indicted in Georgia in August, his supporters posted the purported names and addresses of members of the grand jury. Special counsel Jack Smith, who is overseeing Trump’s federal election interference case in Washington, was the target of an attempted swatting on Christmas Day . So too was U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan, who will oversee that trial , if the Supreme Court allows it to go forward (though that could change if Trump wins in November). When Michael Fanone — the former police officer nearly killed on Jan. 6 by Trump supporters who believed the former president’s lies about the 2020 election — criticized Trump at a press conference outside the hush money trial earlier this week, his mother was swatted . When Trump and conservative media outlets spread false information about the jury instructions in the hush money case this week , threats against Merchan rolled in.
“We are continuing to see a dangerous erosion of democratic norms,” Daniel J. Jones, president of Advance Democracy, said in a statement to NBC News. “Trump and his allies have been spreading disinformation about the trial, challenging Justice Merchan’s impartiality, and describing the entire process as ‘rigged’ for weeks. As such, it’s not a surprise that some of his most fervent supporters are now calling for doxxing and violence against jurors, the judge, and the district attorney.”
Jones said online activity has been increasing in the wake of Trump’s guilty verdict, which makes it important for elected officials to “speak out against the disinformation Trump is spreading, as well the calls for violence he’s inspiring.”
The real action on the streets will begin on November 6th after Trump is elected again. Dems are sore losers.
I don't know greg, seems like the right wing is all kinds of sore about trump losing. Please tell me Greg, that trump isn't the best the GOP has to offer?
Just incredible. It is as if you ignore all that Trump tried to do in his Big Lie campaign and the subsequent violence of the insurrection.
Trump's behavior was historically unique and historically bad. But your comments reflect nothing ... they read as if Trump were a normal GOP presidential nominee.
The Ds have their share of bad behavior but currently Trump and MAGA are the worst by miles.