Former CIA chief Leon Panetta accuses Israel of "terrorism" over Hezbollah pager attack
By: Nicholas Liu (Salon)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Former CIA director and U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta has accused Israel of engaging in "terrorism," leveling a charge against the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that's typically reserved for enemies of the Israeli state.
The Obama administration fixture, not exactly a favoriteamongantiwar activists, used the "terrorism" label to describe a suspected Israeli operation to rig pagers and walkie-talkies used by the militant group Hezbollah with explosives. The act of sabotage killed at least 37 people and injured thousands more across Lebanon, including operatives and civilians alike. The coordinated attacks, which preceded a wave of devastating Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon, have been widely attributed to Israel.
Speaking with CBS News on Sunday, Panetta said Israel's tactics risk engulfing the region in a full-scale war and expanding the scope of warfare into dangerous territory.
Hamas, Israel and "terrorism": If we have to use the label, at least let's use it honestly
"The ability to be able to place an explosive in technology that is very prevalent these days and turn it into a war of terror, really, a war of terror — this is something new," Panetta said on CBS News Sunday Morning. "I don't think there's any question that it's a form of terrorism. This is going right into the supply chain, right into the supply chain. And when you have terror going into the supply chain, it makes people ask the question, what the hell is next?"
Current and former intelligence officials have described the operation as part of Israel's efforts to gain "red-button" capability, or the penetration of an enemy that can be held in reserve long before activation, sowing chaos and paving the way for a broader offensive. The recent attacks on Lebanon threaten to further escalate an already dangerous situation into a regional war, and the U.S. is preparing for the worst by sending an unspecified number of reinforcements to support the 40,000 troops already stationed in the Middle East, the Pentagon announced Monday.
Israel and Hezbollah continue to trade blows by conventional means as well. Israeli missiles slammed into southern Lebanon on Monday morning, killing 356 people and injuring 1,200 others, according to Lebanon's Ministry of Health, in what Israel said was an effort to take out weapons hidden in residential buildings. Hezbollah fired its own rockets and drones into Israel, with most of them falling into open areas or getting intercepted by Israeli defenses. At least one Israeli person was reported injured. Previous attacks attributed to Hezbollah, including a July strike that left a dozen children dead, have led to the displacement of tens of thousands of people in northern Israel.
Israel did not tell the U.S. about its pager operation in advance of the attacks that began last week, perhaps fearing a "freak-out" by Pentagon officials who would "pull every lever they think they had to get them to not do it," Ralph Goff, a former CIA official, told The Washington Post. Only after the first wave of attacks last Tuesday did Israel notify Washington that it was behind it all, according to U.S. officials.
In carrying out the operation, experts say that Israel, already under heavy criticism for its war in Gaza and deadly incursions in the West Bank, may have violated international treaties and protocols to which it is a signatory. Article 7(2) of the Amended Protocol II of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weaponsprohibits the use of booby traps, which Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch, defines as "objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use."
"The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction," Fakh said in a statement.
Panetta, speaking Sunday, stressed the importance of stopping such forms of warfare from spiraling out of control.
"I think it's going to be very important for the nations of the world to have a serious discussion about whether or not this is an area that everybody has to focus on," Panetta said. "Because if they don't try to deal with it now, mark my word: It is the battlefield of the future."
Is Leon Panetta anti-semtitc ?
Hmmm
New Pentagon Chief Leon Panetta Wins Jews' Trust
Four decades in the political limelight have made newly minted Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta a familiar and trusted figure to the Jewish and pro-Israeli communities.
Hezbollah has been lobbing rockets and assorted hardware into Israe/ since October 7th. They wanted to join their terrorist Hamas brothers in killing Israelis and destroying the state of Israel. They deserve every bad thing that happens to them. That they hate the Jews more than caring about their children and innocent civilians is very sad and the cause of their casualties.
In carrying out the operation, experts say that Israel, already under heavy criticism for its war in Gaza and deadly incursions in the West Bank, may have violated international treaties and protocols to which it is a signatory. Article 7(2) of the Amended Protocol II of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons prohibits the use of booby traps, which Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch, defines as "objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use."
The question derives from above⇑: "booby traps" which can take down civilians (in daily use).
What is your opinion of Hamas' unwarranted attack on Israel on 10/7?
Somehow justified?
Hundreds of Israeli Strikes Kill More Than 350 People in Lebanon | WSJ News (youtube.com)
What is your point for asking for my opinion of 10/7? Because I find it offensive that you would address me about a year ago happening. BTW, I addressed that in comments at the time. I, almost, want to do so again. . . but won't, nevertheless. . . because Israel has not heeded my online advice as it is today.
As for Middle East issues related to this discussion, I would advise Israel to be concerned about it's brand in the Middle East. . . and abroad. You do not win over the world by making it afraid of you. . . that makes for more hard, harsh, feelings-generally speaking.
Their religion commands them to find and kill the Jews. It's written in the Koran. It's a built-in requirement. It will never end unless the Koran is rewritten, and you know what the chance of that happening is, right? Israel is NEVER going to be safe from them.
I am sure Hamas abided by international laws when attacking civilians in Israel in October.
Israel shouldn't have to worry over what the 'world' thinks of how they conduct their wars.
Why don't you post the rules on how it is okay to attack civilians at rock concerts. Or rain down missiles on civilians. Or maybe you can do the part with using civilians to hide amongst.
The United States worries and cares about the conduct of Israel's wars, specifically as it relates to its role within the war campaign and processes.
We should allow Israel the same right to conduct its own wars as they give us.
In any case, we shouldn't be supporting terrorists and Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorists.
Lama Fakih, Human Rights Watch's Middle East and North Africa director, said a "prompt and impartial" investigation should be urgently conducted.
Particularly into the use of booby traps, which goes against international law for its impact on civilians.
"There are some circumstances where you can lawfully use them against combatants if it's done in the right way," he told the ABC.
"But there are special protections for civilians against the use of booby traps."
Debate over device modification
A global treaty, which has been signed by more than 100 countries including Israel , bans "the use booby traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects that are specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material".
How did Hezbollah's pagers become vulnerable to such a large-scale attack?
Hezbollah opted for using pagers instead of mobile phones as a way to avoid being tracked and spied on. But the devices have become the target of a large-scale attack.
Professor Saul said the pagers that exploded across southern Lebanon would fall into the category of an object used by civilians.
But there may be debate over whether they were "specifically designed and constructed" with explosives.
Exploding pagers and walkie-talkies in Lebanon raise questions over laws of war - ABC News
The UN is nothing to me but a waste of space, time, energy, and money.
Not a very credible organization.
It should be disbanded.
Well, apparently, it is not up for 'debate.' Because we are knee-deep in the politics and war 'tangibles' of Israel and the politics of the Middle East, specifically since Israel became a state in 1948.
But it is. You just don't end debate by a declaration that something is not up for debate. Shades of Kamala's "it's just settled. It's just settled law".
I feel our closest ally in the ME should get our full support.
Well, until the U.N. is "disbanded" —it matters. Opinion noted (and having no tangible effect on international policies.
I graciously extend the last words to you.
Not really. The UN is a toothless tiger with no real power.
You have a snuck premise above, and it must be called out: The United States is not supporting Hamas and Hezbollah over and above Israel. That would be a . . .untruth. Yet, a Wrong plus a Wrong equals two Wrongs.
We should not increase wrongs in the Middle East. The United States ought to be an agent of the Good.
So much for last word.
Believe it or not, Jews are as capable of misjudging people as anyone. Maybe Panetta has since converted to Islam and adopted its key characteristics.
Possibly the most successful targeted operation in history, which decapitated a terrorist group and, surprise, surprise, certain people immediately equate it to the intentional murder of children on October 7.
If you can't support the targeted killing of Hezbollah leaders, you don't believe any Israel has any right to defend itself.
The objection to using terrorist tactics, even in a good cause, is clearly laid out in this and other articles.
The explosions were set off randomly, period. In the sense that Israel did not know where the "targets" would be at the time of the detonation. That would be a very definition of random.
[✘]
random - "determined by accident"
It wasn't determined by accident, Only the pagers of Hezbollah members went off. it wasn't a random group and they didn't go off at Random times, a specific group of pagers went off, that belong to a specific group, at a specific time. How in the fuck can anybody claim that was random? And again, where the fuck were these antisemitic assholes when Obama was killing entire families? or all the people at a sandwich shop? honestly that seems worse because he knew innocent people were there and just didn't give a fuck.
This was no accident.
Do you think these pagers were sold on the street?
If terrorism is now defined to include both the 10/7 massacre of civilians and the killing of Hezbollah leadership, then it's lost all meaning. It's just like "racist" or "fascist" a word thrown around to attack someone you disagree with.
If you set off explosions over which you have no control, in the middle of "everyday life", that is exactly what terrorists do. There is a photo of a produce market where one of these explosions went off. People were there buying their daily groceries.
If you dont want to be compared to the bad guys then dont do bad guy stuff.
The locations were random. One of the targets could have been hugging their 4 year old kid when the bomb went off.
Not if said Hezbos were holding them. They were the location and not random.
Do you see any difference between the Nazis and Americans in WWII? Our bombing was thousands of times more "random" than the targeted explosions of Hezbollah military hardware.
I know your Senator likes to call American troops Nazis, do you think they are the morally the same as well?
Again. where was this outrage? the only difference is it's Jewish people doing it than the Obama admin. You know what that means right?
[✘]
Hamas executing hostages, including an American, didn't draw anywhere near this sort of outrage on the left either. Only Jewish people killing terrorists seems to enrage the left. What possible reason could there be for that?
Then why do we call ANYTHING terrorism against civilians? There have been suicide bombers who randomly went into a crowd and exploded. I guess they are not terrorists then.
Maybe we can ask the democrat base on college campuses who chant "from the river to the sea?" i'm sure they can explain the DNC party platform.
If any country did the same inside Israel, or the United States, it would be called terrorism in a half a second.
Only Jewish people killing terrorists seems to enrage the left.
Bullshit and you know it. A child picked up her father’s beeping pager to hand to him, and she was killed. These are the ethical issues the left is concerned with.
If they targeted military personal or the political leaders? during wartime? only a moron like Pinheada would call that terrorism, normal people would call that war. It's not like anyone dropped a hellfire on a crowded marketplace not knowing who the collateral damage would be.
Surely because we are involved in "Big Satan-Little Satan" narratives where Israel is concerned. We have a say and other nations come to 'us' with their questions seeking answers about our intent and extent of covering' Israel's back-side. We can't sanction every activity simply because it is Israel. There are international rule of war to consider and as we are 'fond' of on NT: 'issues' in combat that are "new concepts" and "Skirting the rules."
Well, just how "inventive" and 'dirty warfare' do you want to go. . . will have to be properly considered. Because routine shopping in the community is not a recognized 'battlefield. Don't gloss over that! If fighting is 'dirty' then anything goes means ANYTHING GOES. . . and that would certainly mean October 7, 2023 was not a terrorist act, but a case of "anything goes."
I do not think warfare will ever come to mean that a battlefield is 'anywhere,' 'anytime,' and 'any personage/s.' Unless all a declaration of all-out war (unrestricted war) is delivered. That would involve more than exploding devices. . . it could be starvation of whole cities, poisoning populations, and yes utter and complete genocide!
A former Secretary of Defense is an 'expert' on what terrorism is, by rank and placement.
That’s one previous SecDef position.
Why hasn’t the administration condemned this strike?
Leon didn’t let that stop him from authorizing hundreds of drone strikes.
It was the father's fault for being a terrorist.
And it's Hezbollah's fault its innocent civilians are getting killed.
Well,. . .you know, you will have to pick your battles/conflicts/wars as this one is about pagers, walkie-talkies, and other 'strange' explosive devices which are unorthodox and out of the box thinking. And then, talk about them properly in context. That is, not all forms of terrorism are equal, if I have to explain it.
It can't be denied that the perpetrator of the exploding devices knew where they were SUPPOSED to be, since they were even more important to be within arm's reach 24/7 of the Hezbollah militants, for receipt of emergency commands. I'm really getting sick and tired of the hypocrisy of those whose nation bombed Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo and Dresden.
Just as there are casualties of war, something that even YOUR nation has perpetrated.
No argument there. It’s still an ethical conflict. The biggest ethical conflict related to the situation in Gaza is how Hamas was enabled to do what they did in the first place. Hamas was funded by Israel, and Israel knew what Hamas had up their sleeves. Netanyahu has not provided any explanation for how the events of that day were permitted to occur and perpetuate for as long as they did. There is an obvious appearance of allowing the situation to explode in order to justify a long planned massive response, while simultaneously keeping Netanyahu in power.
It was the father's fault for being a terrorist.
If every Hezbollah member is a terrorist regardless of whether they have actually engaged in actual terrorism, then every American militia member is also a terrorist. They openly talk amongst themselves about a violent takeover of this country. How is that any different?
Yes, they allowed containers with millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas.
Hamas also wanted an increase in the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, to increase the money flowing into Gaza, and Israel agreed.
Bad policy trying to buy calmness in Gaza.
Perhaps that is so, and perhaps not, but then as it is said, "All’s fair in love and war".
Kind of like a false flag but it really did happen?
Israel is probably wondering where the folks claiming 'ethical issues' were back in October when it was savagely attacked.
Or how those same folks propose to stop terrorism against Israel.
The saddest part of this whole thing is, I truly believe if there was a liberal progressive or any other leader in Israel, or if Netanyahu came out in full voice support for Harris for President we would hear the left and their minions cheering this as brilliant, that is how deep their hate has become for anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
No one really can know what some conservatives mean with these "all-knowing" hypotheticals that are inconsistent, nevertheless. A liberal progressive leader of Israel by definition highly probably would have resolved this by now by accepting something of a deal for peace or temporary peace. Netanyahu is become a problem for his own people who are protesting him not getting their family/relatives/friends back safely inside of nearly a year. This is not "deep hatred" —that is propaganda as a talking point. Commonsense lets it be known that Israel can not militarily defeat an ideology. . . by maiming, killing, or suppressing people who want them off the land they inhabit. To be clear, the solution, if there is one at all, will be political. So 'they' both sides best get on with a viable political solution as soon as possible.
It’s a mystery why Israel’s neighbors don’t get the hint - when you fuck with Israel, you get an avalanche of hurt in return. The epitome of thank you sir may I have another.
Israel and Hezbollah continue to trade blows by conventional means as well. Israeli missiles slammed into southern Lebanon on Monday morning, killing 356 people and injuring 1,200 others, according to Lebanon's Ministry of Health, in what Israel said was an effort to take out weapons hidden in residential buildings. Hezbollah fired its own rockets and drones into Israel, with most of them falling into open areas or getting intercepted by Israeli defenses. At least one Israeli person was reported injured.
Hey Lebanon - was it worth it?
Can Israel "end" the eternal war they are in by blowing people up in grocery stores?
That possibility seems far fetched to me. It does no good to say "dont fuck with me" when they will fuck with you next month, next year, or in ten years, and use these pager bombs for their justification.
I’m not really taking sides in this. Just observing the impossible situation. It would have been great if the deaths and injuries were only inflicted on the targets, but that rarely happens.
Do you want Israel to win this war that Hamas started?
I do.
Both Israel and Ukraine have established new parameters in warfare, the road is slippery and there is no going back.
That is what I am subtly getting across in my comments on this article. There is justifiable warfare and then there is "all-out' warfare. The two things are distinct and as such should be treated with proper respect.
You’re too subtle for me, was our drone killing of civilian clothed people in civilian vehicles “justifiable”?
You have the wrong battles/conflict/war in mind. Please update to this discussion about Israel and Hezbollah and 'come back' about it. When you do, I am sure you will appreciate the distinctions involved. Besides that, your carefully crafter question about 'civilian-dressed militants' or some such thing as that, misses the point. Either one is known to be in the military or one is not in the military: 'costuming' is not an issue. And if the 'one' doing the killing don't know which is which, perhaps stop killing until one can properly know.
Military uniforms and the law of war
Don't know or care why that is posted. Unless there is a detailed point (and page number or numbers for special consideration).
I’m not surprised.
What happened to “There is justifiable warfare and then there is "all-out' warfare. The two things are distinct and as such should be treated with proper respect”?
I thought that you wanted to discuss justifiable war? Maybe your issue is more about these specific combatants than the act.
I am discussing: "Former CIA chief Leon Panetta accuses Israel of "terrorism" over Hezbollah pager attack." We took a 'momentary' detour onto a 'side-bar issue' and now must get back on the path (the side-bar is not the topic, per se).
Really hope that is clear now.
No, it was because Israel KNEW that the Biden administration would leak it to Hezbollah or the Lebanon government which would render the whole long and hard thought out and brilliantly prepared offensive useless.
Has everyone forgotten who STARTED the recent conflict with the Hezbollah terrorists? Israel had not fired rockets or missiles into Lebanon for a long time, which were ALWAYS in reply to Hezbollah's attacks. But as soon as Oct 7 happened, Hezbollah started firing its Iranian missiles into northern Israel in support of Hamas. Hezbollah STARTED it and I lay NO blame on Israel for doing whatever it can to STOP it.
Israel was wise to not trust the same administration that tried to build a pier to give supplies to the enemy with secret plans
A lot of the humanitarian aid being sent to Gaza is being hi-jacked by Hamas, then used for its terrorist militants, or sold at exorbitant prices to the civilians. However, you won't find UNRWA or the UN or even the US and its media admitting that because they prefer to blame Israel for "starving the civilians".