╌>

Science Goes Woke

  
Via:  Nerm_L  •  3 years ago  •  46 comments

By:   Daniel Tenreiro (National Review)

Science Goes Woke
As if academics were not wasting enough time on paperwork, now they face the added burden of proving their progressive bona fides in order to win grants.

Sponsored by group News Viners

News Viners


Funding agencies, organizations, and institutions are imposing their politically 'woke' biases onto the scientific community.  The competition for grant funding works much like natural selection:  those with a competitive edge in grant funding become dominant.   The conduct of science is reshaped through natural selection to align with the political biases of the grant sponsors.

As the scientific disciplines become more corrupted by political bias in the grant cycle then science will only provide answers and explanations that grant sponsors want the public to hear.  


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



A new report from the Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI) confirms a trend that has been obvious to anyone paying attention: Science has gone woke. The study analyzes the abstracts of National Science Foundation grants since 1990, finding the following:

The frequency of documents containing highly politicized terms has been increasing consistently over the last three decades. As of 2020, 30.4% of all grants had one of the following politicized terms: “equity,” “diversity,” “inclusion,” “gender,” “marginalize,” “underrepresented,” or “disparity.” This is up from 2.9% in 1990. The most politicized field is Education & Human Resources (53.8% in 2020, up from 4.3% in 1990). The least are Mathematical & Physical Sciences (22.6%, up from 0.9%) and Computer & Information Science & Engineering (24.9%, up from 1.5%), although even they are significantly more politicized than any field was in 1990.

Below is a chart of the findings. Check out the spike in “Latinx.”

512

Perhaps it’s unsurprising that grant writers pledge fealty to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). A recent American Enterprise Institute study finds that one in five job postings at U.S. universities requires a DEI statement from applicants. If you want to teach astrophysics, be prepared to expound on your involvement “in activities to advance or promote a diverse, equitable, and inclusive environment or institution.”

Our research-funding apparatus has long been broken. As I wrote last year:

A 2007 study found that researchers spend 42 percent of their time writing grant proposals and ensuring compliance with the conditions of the grants they receive. Stringent regulations on everything from affirmative action to animal welfare place a needless burden on scientists, reducing their productivity. Since any given proposal has a 20 percent chance of being approved, researchers devote 170 days to proposal-writing for every grant they’re awarded.

As if academics were not wasting enough time on paperwork, now they face the added burden of proving their progressive bona fides in order to win grants.

Over the past two years, we’ve learned of a number of prominent American scientists secretly taking money from the Chinese government. That is borderline treasonous, but given the state of the National Science Foundation, can you blame them?


Tags

jrGroupDiscuss - desc
[]
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1  seeder  Nerm_L    3 years ago

Science is evolving into politics.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.1  Ronin2  replied to  Nerm_L @1    3 years ago

Science is following the money; and has been for a long time. Which was never about science to begin with.

Before all it had to do was cater the outcome of their findings to the benefactors; whether it be a corporation or the government. Corporations haven't changed; but the government under Democrat control has become more "woke" and extreme. Now if they don't have a prominent transgender African American/Latino in a high position on their research team they can be shut out of grants. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @1.1    3 years ago
"Science is following the money; and has been for a long time."

Says who????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
1.1.2  squiggy  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.1    3 years ago

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1    3 years ago

The National Review is nothing but a crackpot whackjob conspiracy site anymore.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    3 years ago

Agreed. It's just conservative opinions. This article is just more anti science bias.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.2.2  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    3 years ago
The National Review is nothing but a crackpot whackjob conspiracy site anymore.  

The Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI) is not a whackjob conspiracy site.  The CSPI report scrutinizes political influence on successful grant proposals. 

512

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.2    3 years ago

WTF does that have to do with science and funding?

Sounds like a crackpot 'center' to me.  Who funds this crackpot 'center'?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.2    3 years ago

WTF do they know about science?  And grants?  And research?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.2    3 years ago

I was right - this is some kind of crackpot site

Center for Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI)

     
Website:

cspicenter.org/

Location:

SAN GABRIEL, CA

Tax ID:

84-4744197

Tax-Exempt Status:

501(c)(3)  

Formation:

2020

President:

Richard Hanania

Type:

Think tank

The Center for Study of Partisanship and Ideology (CSPI) is a right-of-center think tank which studies biases in the media, universities, and the scientific community. The organization primarily reports on bias against conservatives. CSPI provides research grants of $2,000-$15,000 to applicants to study incidents or trends of bias against conservatives.  [1]

The organization is also notable for its publication of research in opposition to COVID-19 lockdown policies.   [2]

Areas of Study

Center for Study of Partisanship focuses on five “areas of interest” that examine the rise of partisanship in the United States and bias against conservatives.   [3]

THE “GREAT AWOKENING”

CSPI studies the impact of what left-progressive journalist Matt Yglesias (formerly of   Vox ) has called the “Great Awokening,” a strong leftward shift among American liberals on social issues, especially regarding gender, race, and sexuality. CSPI has argued that the origins and implications of this intellectual trend have been understudied, particularly the discrimination against conservatives in academia and the media that has resulted from it.   [4]

THE REPLICATION CRISIS AND POLITICAL BIAS IN SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY

CSPI studies the “replication crisis,” an ongoing concern in the scientific community starting in the early 2010s that refers to the high rate at which scientific papers have failed to replicate, undermining their findings. The replication crisis has hit so-called “soft” sciences the hardest, particularly social psychology.   [5]

CSPI is exploring the connection between scientific studies that fail to replicate in social psychology and the lef-progressive political views which are common among social psychologists. CSPI has alleged that such biases may be making scientific research in social psychology less accurate.   [6]

THE TENSION BETWEEN TRIBALISM AND MORALITY

CSPI has argued that tribalism and morality are the two primary driving factors behind political beliefs, though the organization has also claimed that these two factors are in conflict for most people. The organization conducts studies on how individuals reconcile this conflict.   [7]

POPULISM AND ANTI-LEFT BACKLASH AS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON

CSPI studies the rise of right-wing populist movements around the world, arguing that they rose in reaction to left-wing hegemony in Europe and the United States.   [8]

RACIAL MINORITIES AND POLITICAL PSYCHOLOGY

CSPI studies allegedly underexamined aspects of political psychology among American racial minorities. For instance, CSPI claims that political analysts tend to ignore Hispanic and African American voters who support the Republican Party and allegedly face prejudice from the Democratic Party. CSPI seeks to research the political motivations of these ethnic minority groups.   [9]

Research

In November 2020, the Center for Study of Partisanship and Ideology published a report claiming that cultural factors outranked economic factors in driving American politics and elections. The report’s surveys revealed that supporters of former President Donald Trump tended to be motivated by cultural rather than economic issues, and that opponents of President Trump were more likely to favor his economic policies over his cultural outlook. The study contends that attempts to reorganize the Republican Party around populist economic policies would be unsuccessful and likely hurt the party’s electoral strength.   [10]

In March 2021, CSPI released a research report detailing trends of bias against conservatives in American, Canadian, and British universities. The report used surveys to discover that over 40% of American and Canadian school administrators would not hire a supporter of former President Trump, while one third of British administrators would not hire a supporter of Brexit. 90% of Brexit supporters and 80% of President Trump supporters working in universities did not feel comfortable publicly expressing their views. Though the report found that only a small percentage of left-leaning administrators and faculty support the “canceling” of conservatives, individuals with this view have outsized control over universities. The CSPI report found that this “hostile” and “authoritarian” climate has discouraged conservative students from entering graduate school and applying for academic jobs.   [11]

Also in March 2021, CSPI published “The Case Against Lockdowns,” an analysis of the available data on the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic on countries that used weaker or stronger lockdowns. The analysis found that there was little difference in the number of infections and deaths in countries, regardless of their lockdown policies. For instance, Sweden utilized little-to-no lockdowns and ended up with a comparable per capita number of deaths to the   European Union ’s average. CSPI argued that personal behavior had a far greater impact on COVID-19 transmission than laws, as vulnerable people would isolate themselves and less vulnerable people would ignore isolation tactics. As a result, the report found that lockdown laws had little-to-no effectiveness, but had considerable economic and behavioral costs.   [12]

References
  1. “Apply for Research Grants.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  2. Lemoine, Philippe. “The Case against Lockdowns.” CSPI. March 4, 2021. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  3. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  4. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  5. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  6. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  7. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  8. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  9. “Areas of Interest.” CSPI. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  10. Hawley, George. “The National Populist Illusion: Why Culture, Not Economics, Drives American Politics.” CSPI. November 30, 2020. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  11. Kaufmann, Eric. “Academic Freedom in Crisis: Punishment, Political Discrimination, and Self-Censorship.” CSPI. March 1, 2021. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^
  12. Lemoine, Philippe. “The Case against Lockdowns.” CSPI. March 4, 2021. Accessed May 29, 2021.   .   ^

  See an error?   Let us know!

Nonprofit Information

  • Accounting Period:   December - November
  • Tax Exemption Received:   June 1, 2020

Available Filings

No filings available.
 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.2.6  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.5    3 years ago
I was right - this is some kind of crackpot site 

Your source is ?  Influence Watch was created by the which is a conservative think tank located in Washington D.C.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.6    3 years ago

Meaningless

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
1.2.8  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.3    3 years ago
Sounds like a crackpot 'center' to me.

It's hilarious how these dipshit conservatives are trying to complain about diversity in the science community. Notice this line:

Check out the spike in “Latinx.”

And yes, that looks like a sharp increase until you notice it's actually just 0.4% increase from 0 over what looks to be a 5 year period.

And they say this as if having diversity is a bad thing, but I suppose that is to be expected from a white-centric right wing conservative Christian website like 'The National Review'. They've made their careers on highlighting white Christian victimhood stories.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.2.9  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.8    3 years ago
And they say this as if having diversity is a bad thing, but I suppose that is to be expected from a white-centric right wing conservative Christian website like 'The National Review'. They've made their careers on highlighting white Christian victimhood stories.

Diversity among scientists performing research is a good thing.  But that is not what the seeded article is addressing.  The seed article isn't about scientists; the seed article is about grant applications to compete for funding.

Political language is being incorporated into grant applications.  And it seems obvious that the grant applicants are either required to include that political language or believe that using political language provides a competitive edge in obtaining funding.

The language being used in grant applications indicate that political influence is determining what types of scientific research is being funded and performed.  Political influence is introducing biases into the performance of science.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
1.2.10  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @1.2.3    3 years ago
Who funds this crackpot 'center'?

probably the same people who fund crackpot centers you like to cite, like Rolling Stone, Variety and Vanity Fair.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1    3 years ago
Science is evolving into politics. 

Scientific funding is controlled by society.   Nothing new here.

Science is a body of knowledge, a discipline and a process.   Yeah, Nerm, public and private funding sources have great influence over what science can accomplish by virtue of holding the purse strings.

As usual, you take the negative factors outside of science and use them to demean science.    Why you do this is beyond me.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.1  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @1.3    3 years ago

I don't get it either. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.2  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3    3 years ago
Scientific funding is controlled by society.   Nothing new here.

No, that is incorrect.  Scientific funding is not crowd sourced.  The funding is controlled by agencies, organizations, and institutions.  Those agencies, organizations, and institutions may be non-partisan but are rarely apolitical.

Science is a body of knowledge, a discipline and a process.   Yeah, Nerm, public and private funding sources have great influence over what science can accomplish by virtue of holding the purse strings.

What happens if that body of knowledge becomes biased?  As you point, the generation of scientific knowledge is strongly influenced by funding sources.  And successful grant proposals are reviewed by criteria other than just merit.

The grant process is very similar to natural selection.  The funding environment requires adaptation to criteria other than merit.  The curriculum vitae of the grant applicant has as much (and increasing) influence as the merit of the proposed research.  Social criteria are increasingly influencing the success of grant proposals.  That increasing influence will introduce biases into the body of scientific knowlege.

As usual, you take the negative factors outside of science and use them to demean science.    Why you do this is beyond me.

Because I care about how the funding process is corrupting the objectivity of science.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.3  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.2    3 years ago
Because I care about how the funding process is corrupting the objectivity of science.

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

What would you know about grants and grant applications?  I'd like to know because I used to work for a division that was funded by grants only.  So tell me what you know.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.2    3 years ago
No, that is incorrect.  Scientific funding is not crowd sourced.

Nerm I said nothing about crowd sourcing.   Note in my next sentence I speak of public and private funding — an indisputable fact of reality.   Read what I write and address me accordingly.   I am truly sick of your games.

What happens if that body of knowledge becomes biased? 

Then you have a cult.   Are you really suggesting that the body of knowledge that we call science which explains the workings of the cosmos down to quantum dynamics is biased?   That these theories of science that are routinely challenged are biased?   That the mathematical formulations used to engineer technologies and myriad products are somehow tainted yet still work?

Because I care about how the funding process is corrupting the objectivity of science.

You indict science itself when you should be indicting corrupt funding sources.   It is always the same gig with you.   You find factors in reality (e.g. corrupting influence of money) that impact science and then attribute all the negatives of those factors onto science itself.   It is bizarre.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.5  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.4    3 years ago
Nerm I said nothing about crowd sourcing.   Note in my next sentence I speak of public and private funding — an indisputable fact of reality.   Read what I write and address me accordingly.   I am truly sick of your games.

You said science funding is controlled by society.  That's false, incorrect, and wrong.  You made the false statement so don't try to blame me.

Then you have a cult.   Are you really suggesting that the body of knowledge that we call science which explains the workings of the cosmos down to quantum dynamics is biased?   That these theories of science that are routinely challenged are biased?   That the mathematical formulations used to engineer technologies and myriad products are somehow tainted yet still work?

Yes, the body of scientific knowledge is gradually becoming biased.  Funding is favoring research proposals that meet social criteria which will bias the body of scientific knowledge according to those social criteria.

You indict science itself when you should be indicting corrupt funding sources.   It is always the same gig with you.   You find factors in reality (e.g. corrupting influence of money) that impact science and then attribute all the negatives of those factors onto science itself.   It is bizarre.

Yet the grant applicants that incorporate those social criteria into proposals to become more competitive aren't contributing to the problem?  The grant applicants are indicating their bias in the proposals and the funding agencies, organizations, and institutions are rewarding that bias.

The funding process is similar to natural selection that favors biased scientists.  How can that not bias the body of scientific knowledge?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.6  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.5    3 years ago

No, you are false, incorrect, and wrong.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.7  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.5    3 years ago
You said science funding is controlled by society. 

It is controlled by society!    Society is an all encompassing word that includes all people of a domain and thus all sources of funding and that necessarily includes public and private funding.   My next sentence went on to specifically state that.   Your tactic of redefining words is obnoxious.   Your ignoring my second sentence to intentionally redefine the meaning of society to 'crowd-sourcing' in my first sentence is blatant intellectual dishonesty.

What is the point in engaging in these obvious  pathetic tactics?    If you were to cheat at Chess would you find that to be an accomplishment?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.8  Gordy327  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.7    3 years ago
What is the point in engaging in these obvious  pathetic tactics?

Maybe because he has no valid argument or rebuttal to make?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.9  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.7    3 years ago
It is controlled by society!    Society is an all encompassing word that includes all people of a domain and thus all sources of funding and that necessarily includes public and private funding.   My next sentence went on to specifically state that.   Your tactic of redefining words is obnoxious.   Your ignoring my second sentence to intentionally redefine the meaning of society to 'crowd-sourcing' in my first sentence is blatant intellectual dishonesty.

Playing dictionary games doesn't alter the fact that your statement that science funding is controlled by society is false, incorrect, and wrong.  Science funding is controlled by agencies, organizations, and institutions that independently fund grants according to their own independent criteria. 

The NIH, NASA, and Bill Gates independently establish the criteria to select and fund grant proposals.  Society at large may influence those criteria through a political process.  But that political influence would only reinforce the political bias of independently established criteria for funding grants.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.10  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.9    3 years ago
Science funding is controlled by agencies, organizations, and institutions that independently fund grants according to their own independent criteria. 

What do you think "public and private funding sources" means?    What is the point of you always playing these stupid games?    Do you like meta in your articles?  Do you want these stupid side-bars rather than focus on the topic?   What, other than being gratuitously obnoxious, is your objective?

Read and comprehend the obvious:

TiG @1.3 ☞ Yeah, Nerm, public and private funding sources have great influence over what science can accomplish by virtue of holding the purse strings.
 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.11  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3.1    3 years ago
I don't get it either. 

Why are the terms equity, diversity, inclusion, gender, marginalize, underrepresented, and disparity relevant to funding physical sciences, mathematics, or computer science?

The use of these terms in funding social science research is understandable since they can be considered measures of social conditions.  The inclusion of these terms in funding biological sciences may also be understandable since such a large portion of funding is devoted to medical research.

The question is whether or not political influence using these terms has imposed criteria on the funding of science research?  And is that political influence now being imposed on non-social sciences?  Is political influence biasing the funding of all scientific research?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.12  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.10    3 years ago
What do you think "public and private funding sources" means?

That means independent sources of funding who independently determine research priorities and independently establish criteria for funding research.  Each independent agency, organization, and institution funds research according to their independent biases.

Those independent agencies, organizations, and institutions are not accountable to the public.  The public cannot litigate biased science which suggests the funding providers are separated from society.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.13  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.11    3 years ago
Is political influence biasing the funding of all scientific research?

Political and other influences have ALWAYS biased the funding of scientific research.  NASA's funding levels, for example, are clearly a function of politics.  University research is a function of grants which are often ultimately influenced by politics.   Politics influences most everything nowadays.   Scientists, in general, rarely get to work on what they want unless they find a source of funds that enables them to do so.   Typically a scientist is not independently wealthy and able to freely explore whatever s/he wishes.

You continue to conflate science itself with factors of the environment in which science exists.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.14  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.12    3 years ago
That means independent sources of funding who independently determine research priorities and independently establish criteria for funding research.  Each independent agency, organization, and institution funds research according to their independent biases.

It means PUBLIC (most commonly government) sources and PRIVATE (most commonly large corporations) sources.    And of course they are largely independent.   Nothing new here Nerm.   You offer zero new information and present it as insight.

Water is wet, the sky is blue, science in general requires funding and the funding comes from various independent / semi-dependent public and private sources.   That is, science is funded by society (many, varied sources) and not strictly by a single source.

Those independent agencies, organizations, and institutions are not accountable to the public.  The public cannot litigate biased science which suggests the funding providers are separated from society.  

Government funding is accountable to the public.   But no, the public itself does not get to directly vote on every specific use of public funds for science.   But you should know that based on the fact that we are a Republic with indirect democracy.   Again, what new revelation do you think you are offering?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.15  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.11    3 years ago
Why are the terms equity, diversity, inclusion, gender, marginalize, underrepresented, and disparity relevant to funding physical sciences, mathematics, or computer science?

What is your point?

The use of these terms in funding social science research is understandable since they can be considered measures of social conditions.  The inclusion of these terms in funding biological sciences may also be understandable since such a large portion of funding is devoted to medical research.

So research can involve or focus on specific groups. Nothing new there.  Again, your point?

The question is whether or not political influence using these terms has imposed criteria on the funding of science research?  And is that political influence now being imposed on non-social sciences?  Is political influence biasing the funding of all scientific research?

Of course politics influences science, especially where funds and direction of research goes. That's also nothing new. It seems your complaint should be with politics, not science.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.16  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.13    3 years ago
Political and other influences have ALWAYS biased the funding of scientific research.

The point is that those biases determine the research that is performed.  The biased selection of research also biases the generation of scientific knowledge.

You continue to conflate science itself with factors of the environment in which science exists.

You are attempting to claim that science is not influenced by the environment in which science exists?  Grant funding establishes the environment and the performance of science evolves to adapt to that funding environment.  Science, like many other aspects of society, is controlled by those who have the money.  

The biases in science are not deliberate; the biases arise from an evolutionary process akin to natural selection.  The environmental biases found in nature directly determines the natural selection of organisms adapted to that environment.  The biases in the funding environment for research directly determines the type of scientific research that is performed through adaptation to that funding environment.

The biases are established outside of science and science adapts to those biases.  The science, itself, becomes biased because the funding environment is biased.  That's how natural selection works.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.17  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.16    3 years ago
The point is that those biases determine the research that is performed.  The biased selection of research also biases the generation of scientific knowledge.

No shit Nerm.   If there is no funding for scientific research on Jupiter there will be no such research.

You are attempting to claim that science is not influenced by the environment in which science exists? 

No, I stated that it IS influenced by its environment.   Do you not even read responses in REPLY to your comments on your own seed?

You know what Nerm, I am done dealing with your crap.   You want to troll your own seed so have at it with someone else who still has patience with you.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.18  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3.15    3 years ago
Of course politics influences science, especially where funds and direction of research goes. That's also nothing new. It seems your complaint should be with politics, not science.

What do you think the seed article is highlighting?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.19  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.17    3 years ago
No, I stated that it IS influenced by its environment.   Do you not even read responses in REPLY to your comments on your own seed?

And I've stated that the influence on science by its environment is biasing science overall.  The scientific method and peer review cannot correct biases in selection and funding of grant proposals.  The biases are imposed on science by the funding environment and research proposals adapt to that funding environment.  Research proposals incorporate the bias into the type of research being pursued to compete for funding.

As an example, the bias in funding energy research does not favor research to improve or advance nuclear energy.  And that bias has been influenced by political considerations rather than by the merits and potential benefit of the research on nuclear energy.

Right now the environment of science funding is being influenced and biased by social measures.  Those social measures have value but are displacing the merits and potential benefit of scientific research within the funding environment.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.20  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.11    3 years ago

You deal well with the “dynamic duo”.  Keep up the good work and great responses.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3.21  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.17    3 years ago

Nerm is right…

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.22  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.18    3 years ago

It's one thing to claim about politics influencing science, especially in terms of direction and focus of research. But it's quite another to claim politics is causing bias in scientific findings. Sure bias can happen. Scientists are human after all. But the scientific method and scientific process helps minimize that. Not to mention biases are not well received by the scientific community. Like I said, your gripe is with politics, not the science itself. But then, you always seem to take some issue with science.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.3.23  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Gordy327 @1.3.22    3 years ago
It's one thing to claim about politics influencing science, especially in terms of direction and focus of research. But it's quite another to claim politics is causing bias in scientific findings.

The bias has been introduced before there are any findings.  A liberal or conservative think tank will produce liberal or conservative findings.  The methods used to generate the findings will conform to standard protocols and practices but those methods cannot overcome the bias introduced before any findings are generated.

Like I said, your gripe is with politics, not the science itself. But then, you always seem to take some issue with science.

But we've seen how political attitudes (particularly liberal attitudes) have corrupted economics, law, and education.  Political manipulation and interference has been transforming economics, law, and education into political endeavors.  Why would science be exempted from the corrupting influence of politics?

Look at how economics has been so corrupted by politics that economics no longer functions properly.  Liberal attitudes have manipulated and interfered with economics to such an extent that it has become almost impossible to remove the political influence from economics.  The neo-liberal attitudes toward free markets, trade, globalization, and taxation have transformed economics into politics.  

If we do not address the politicization of science then it will become inevitable that science will be transformed into politics just as economics has been transformed into politics.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Expert
1.3.24  Gordy327  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.23    3 years ago
The bias has been introduced before there are any findings.  A liberal or conservative think tank will produce liberal or conservative findings. 

Where do you come up with this BS Nerm? 

The methods used to generate the findings will conform to standard protocols and practices but those methods cannot overcome the bias introduced before any findings are generated.

How can there be a bias before any research is done, much less published?

Why would science be exempted from the corrupting influence of politics?

It's not entirely. Politics may influence where science goes or what it researches. But the scientific process helps to bias within research.

Look at how economics has been so corrupted by politics that economics no longer functions properly.  Liberal attitudes have manipulated and interfered with economics to such an extent that it has become almost impossible to remove the political influence from economics.  The neo-liberal attitudes toward free markets, trade, globalization, and taxation have transformed economics into politics.  

Careful, your own bias is showing.

If we do not address the politicization of science then it will become inevitable that science will be transformed into politics just as economics has been transformed into politics.

Fear mongering. It's not the politicization of science that's the issue. It's how politics tries to direct and present science. The science itself is generally sound. Peoples general stupidity or irrational hostility regarding science doesn't help matters any either.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  Nerm_L @1    3 years ago

That is the so called pro science consensus of the woke secular progressive elites. It’s their way of silencing and censorship of conservative and Christian points of view while they feign being “open minded” which is the biggest lie of all on their part.  Dave Van Zandt is a proponent of this “thinking”

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Expert
1.4.1  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.4    3 years ago
That is the so called pro science consensus of the woke secular progressive elites. It’s their way of silencing and censorship of conservative and Christian points of view while they feign being “open minded” which is the biggest lie of all on their part.  Dave Van Zandt is a proponent of this “thinking”

Well, that's only politics using (or misusing) science to support liberal attitudes.  That in and of itself is not surprising and isn't necessarily harmful for science.  Problems arise when those liberal attitudes begin manipulating and interfering with the performance of science to support liberal attitudes.

We've seen the same thing happen with economics.  While political and social liberals (as well as conservatives) refuse to acknowledge the fact, liberal attitudes have manipulated and interfered with economics to support liberal attitudes.  The liberal language associated with free markets, globalization, and taxation is little different than the liberal 'woke' language of equity, diversity, and inclusion.  Neoliberals are economically 'woke'.

Liberal attitudes are doing to science what liberal attitudes have done to economics.  We've already seen how this will happen.  And we've already seen how badly liberal attitudes will screw up everything.  Economics no longer functions properly because liberal attitudes transformed economics into politics.  And those same sort of liberal attitudes will transform science into politics.  It's only a matter of time if we allow this trend to continue.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  Tessylo    3 years ago

Do you all just make up this nonsense as you go along?

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @2    3 years ago

Interesting personal attack upon the seeder here.  

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Silent
2.1.1  squiggy  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1    3 years ago

Yea, that's a problem with some fully automatic keyboards.

 
 
 
Hallux
PhD Principal
3  Hallux    3 years ago

There's woke and then there's wokier post-neo-woke, Tenreiro is of the later bunch. 

 
 

Who is online





66 visitors