Glossolalia - 'Speaking in Tongues'
There are some who are quite adept at producing utterances that sound like a genuine language; albeit utterances that nobody understands. These people claim to be serving as a channel for the Holy Spirit to speak through them. The language is a spiritual language that even the speaker does not claim to understand (well, usually).
This is interesting behavior. No doubt the speaker feels that by speaking in tongues he or she is professing a special gift or tie with God; possibly a form of showing off. The fact that some engage in this practice is not too surprising. What is surprising is that some believe this is true.
Why is this Believed to be Real?
Consider these two speaking in tongues:
Others can do a far more convincing job, take Pat Boone for example. These two seem a bit more credible:
Is there any truth to glossolalia or is it simply yet another unfounded belief?
Linguistic Analysis Showing it is Not Real ( link )
Per the book, TONGUES OF MEN AND ANGELS. The Religious Language of Pentecostalism. By William J. Samarin. The Macmillan Company, New York, 1972. 277 pages.
The author, an eminent linguist, professor of anthropology and linguistics at the University of Toronto, attempts to answer the question: Why do so many educated and well-established members of society "speak in tongues"?
He first examines glossolalia from a linguist's point of view and shows "what Christians, at least. do when they talk in tongues" (p. 2). His examination is based on a large sample of glossolalia recorded in private and public meetings over a five-year period in Europe and North America. In-depth interviews and questionaires provided further information about the people and their beliefs. The book is a sympathetic analysis, showing respect for the beliefs of these people as "sacred ground" (p. 236). Samarin dismisses such frequently mentioned psychological causes as repression and emotional release.
In some sense glossolalia is "learned behavior" (p. 73), yet not learned as foreign languages are learned. "The tongue speaker is the product of considerable instruction, whether or not glossolalia comes suddenly or gradually" (p. 72). Thus, tongue-speaking is not a "supernaturally acquired skill." Samarin analyzes the speech of tongue-speakers in the same manner that a linguist analyzes a foreign language. He makes a phonetic and semantic inventory and describes its prosodic and paralinguistic features. The discourse "is divided into units of speech . . . through accent, rhythm, intonation and pauses" (p. 78). "The breath group itself can often be divided into subgroups through phonological features" (p. 79). It consists of syllables made up of consonants and vowels taken from the speaker's native language or a foreign language known to him, with much repetition, alliteration, and rhyme. However, the "syllable string does not fall into words" (p. 81), even though one gets the feeling that "words are almost emerging" (p. 82).
In comparing glossolalia to real language Samarin shows how the two differ in form and function. In form, real language is a systematic relationship between the segments of speech and concepts, a relationship which is missing in glossolalia. While language has communication as its function, there is no meaning to individual strings of syllables in glossolalia. The resemblance to real language is superficial: "It is verbal behavior that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels . . . in a limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and rearranged pseudo-grammatically . . . with variations in pitch,volume,speed and intensity" ( p. 1 20). It is "only a facade of language, although at times a very good one indeed " (p. 128).
Human Being Believe Some Strange Stuff
Hang around the planet as an adult for a few decades and one will likely come to the conclusion that human beings are capable of believing virtually anything. The desire for something to be true greatly enables the believer to leap well beyond common sense into absurdity. On the flip side, studying science shows that reality does not always match out intuition. Indeed, modern science is often entirely counter-intuitive.
The difference between believing things like speaking in tongues (religious belief) and accepting that two particles can be entangled and reflect each other regardless of distance (science) is that entanglement is a finding based on evidence and sound underlying formal principles whereas speaking in tongues has no supporting evidence and is indistinguishable from showmanship.
Tags
Who is online
86 visitors
Personally, whenever I see people speaking in tongues it comes off as cheap showmanship. Given there seems to be no evidence that this is anything more than made up utterances I suspect my gut reaction is correct.
It's absolutely correct. And probably a sign that the person isn't too mentally stable.
Or just gave up on trying to learn Esperanto.
Absolutely correct.
If there were a ''language'' such as ''tongues'' I would suspect that there would be a dictionary to give definitions of each word.
I'm going through my closet now looking for the ''Tongue Dictionary'' and what I just found is, ''miinibaashkiminasiganibiitoosijiganibadagwiingweshiganibakwezhigan"....So there.
That is an actual word, meaning ''blueberry pie'' in the Anishinaabe (Ojibwe) language.
I could put one of the so-called ''tongue speakers'' to shame in a NY minute.
As opposed to speaking without a tongue?
Or speaking with forked tongue.
Last time I heard someone speaking in tongues was in a bar about 15 years ago on New Years Eve... Many people speaking gibberish. And that's all this is, someone speaking gibberish, rolling around on the floor then claiming that the 'Holy Spirit' is in them.
Religion as a whole, is nothing more than manipulating people to do what you want them to do via veiled threats, lies and epic hypocrisy. 15-1600 years ago, it was pure manipulation of people too gullible to question what they are being told to get them to bend to your will. Then again, back then, questioning the church usually meant death. Today? Not much difference.
That's true of Islam, as the last several decades has shown.
Oh I am sorry Greg, I was talking about CHRISTIANITY... Not Islam. But since you went there? In the late 1300's, it was Christians that rounded up 80% of the Jews in Europe and executed them because apparently Jesus told them they were the source of the Black Plague. Might want to look at your own religions history before throwing stones at others.
My grandmother took me to her church in KS once and a lady next to me started talking in tongues. It freaked me out so much, I waited in the car until service was over.
I believe "spooky action at a distance" is more plausible than speaking in tongues.
Indeed, I actually used that very example (entanglement) in the article:
Yeah, that got me to look it up to review.
I do remember Kenneth Copeland say something once back when I used to listen to such stuff.
He was supposedly speaking in tongues and said something like kuh-bibba-nocca.
A term I had heard before....somewhere. Some poem by Longfellow or someone back in the day perhaps.
Well let's bring that slimy societal parasite into our discussion. Ken is so good, he actually knows what he means and offers the meaning in captions:
In my opinion, one cannot ridicule Copeland enough.
Awesome subtitles
I thought that was very clever.
I needed that giggle
While I believe it's possible that a few work themselves up into such a frenzy that through some medical condition can unknowing start babbling incoherently for the most parts its fakers and scammers (possibly druggies and drunks too).
First of all, anyone who would speak in tongues to “show off” or “feel superior” is acting according to their own carnal mind and not by the Holy Spirit. They could be faking, be spiritually immature, or even a fake Christian
I read your seed and it’s completely disconnected to the reality of the gift of tongues and the relationship of believers with God. This is a subject worthy of honest and open dialogue. Those who mock the supernatural nature of God do no harm to those of us who walk not by the flesh, but by the Spirit. We actually feel sorry for those who mock.
There are people who fake it. The only harm though is to themselves spiritually in their relationship with God.
Some who will read this post will mock. Some will merely be suspect of things of the Holy Spirit. And some may find agreement. Whichever, I believe because you opened this up, it is important to give a Spirit filled Christian perspective.
I received the gift of tongues as I cried out to God to forgive me and receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior as a 13 year old in my grandfathers church (1962). I had been totally resistant to God and never listened as my Grandfather preached. I knew nothing about tongues except for hearing my Grandfather, Grandmother, and others speak in what seemed completely alien to me prior to that moment. No one coaxed me or encouraged it.
decades later in the early 80s I had an encounter with Jesus that you Atheists will ridicule, but it’s my reality
i had become hardened against the gifts of the Holy Spirit andfelt most were phony. Late at night as I was watching a minister I respected denounce these abuses, I began enthusiastically cheering him on. My room suddenly filled with a bright light and Jesus entered. He began rebuking me for even questioning His Holy Spirit. He forced me to speak in tongues with ever catching my breath. I remember like it was yesterday that He even remarked “if you are so unbelieving, I will demonstrate my power”. This went on for hours, even after He departed. I begged to breath, but He replied that my breath comes from Him. It stopped at 6am the next morning. I’ve never questioned Him or the Holy Spirit again.
I have also experienced my tongue language changing to another tongue during certain intercession for others. I have understood that to have been one of the Angelic tongues. I have sung in tongues and that is also in a different language from when I pray in tongues.
Praying and/or singing in tongues brings you into a presence with God that cannot be explained, only experienced
praying in tongues when confronting Satan or demons releases a spiritual power that is impossible for an unbeliever to understand. There have been occasions when during those encounters, God reveals the secrets and demonic actions of individuals, most whom I’ve never seen prior to the encounter. This has been true throughout my ministry in many countries besides in the US. God has been faithful to deliver those people from the demonic.
God by His very nature and character is not bound by the natural world of mankind. Thus these things are often mocked by those who reject the very idea of God. For others, this supernatural nature is often ignored by those unwilling to go beyond anything in life that requires digging below the surface. For those of us who treasure the daily intimacy of a relationship with God, it is still something of a mystery at times, but a mystery that produces joy and peace. We don’t have to know the how, only have a heart of gratitude that He does these things.
Finally for those who did not see my post to you in another thread, here is a short explanation on differing kinds of tongues per the Bible
Let’s look at the reasons for tongues
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
1 Corinthians 14:2-5
So Paul said that when you are speaking in tongues you are not speaking to man, you are speaking to God.
Now, Paul said that no man understands the person speaking in tongues. How do you equate this with Acts 2 where all of them understood in their own dialects as they were declaring the wonderful works of God? They were all amazed. They said, "Are not all of these who are speaking Galileans? How is it that each one of us is hearing in our own languages as they are declaring the wonderful works of God?" Paul said, "No man understands him."
Now this has led some to conclude that there are two types of tongues. One they call the "sign gift" of tongues and this is the sign that a person has received the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is usually a language or a dialect. And then they have developed a term called the "prayer language." And they say that Paul, here in 1 Corinthians 14, is talking about a "prayer language" that God gives to the people to assist them in their prayer life.
In 1 Corinthians 13 where Paul is talking about the supremacy of love, he said, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." And so they declare that the tongues of men would be the dialects or the "sign tongues," which could be understood by man. And the tongues of angels would be the "prayer language," which would be a heavenly language that is not any earthly dialect.
In the first video there are two individuals. The first I do not recognize, but the second is evangelist Robert Tilton.
@6.1.2 I presented a video of Kenneth Copeland speaking in tongues.
Are these people, in your opinion, genuinely showing the gift of glossolalia or are they putting on a show?
They can genuinely have the gift of tongues and still have bad doctrines (as is the case with both). In other words, their teaching can be completely wrong while still experiencing the Holy Spirit.
i was was God, I wouldn’t give them Spiritual gifts. All the more reason to be thankful that only God is God.
Are these people, in your opinion, genuinely showing the gift of glossolalia or are they putting on a show?
LFOD refuses to answer my question. It is almost as though in some cases people believe something to be true but then do not truly believe. So when challenged, they have nothing to offer in defense. I think this might be one of those cases.
Another case is the Catholic belief that during communion the wine turns into the blood of Christ and the wafer turns into his body. Some Catholics 'believe' this but I suspect they do not truly believe that they are washing down the body of Christ with his blood.
I suspect the same. Ritual cannibalism is one thing ... but actual cannibalism?
I wonder about those who believe that Abraham was told to murder his child, and laud him for obeying God - yet do any of them actually believe the parents who murder their kids these days, and claim that God told them to do it? Why shouldn't they believe these women, if they believe the bible?
In this case, though, I think LFOD does truly believe. And facts and logic quite often are a threat to someone's faith, if that person considers themselves a literalist.
Odd then that a true believer would not weigh in on the baby-talk-babbling of Robert Tilton or the far better but still slimy performance of the societal leach Kenneth Copeland.
Are these frauds to go unchallenged by genuine glossolaliates?
It's called a "mystery" Many mysteries in the Catholic faith. I never thought I was actually eating Jesus' flesh and drinking his blood. I was trying to swallow a dry, tasteless, wafer made of styrofoam and bypassing the wine because there were always floaties in it.
Because in general ONLY God knows whether or not they genuinely received the gift of tongues. Now if they say that it’s a messagein tongues, someone like myself or others with the gift of interpretation are to discern whether it’s genuine or not.
the video examples you posted are praying out loud in tongues and not prophetic messages in tongues
furthermore the Bible says our tongues does sound like gibberish to many unbelievers
third, I don’t agree with or condone their often heretical teachings. That is an entirely different issue
Then you do not know if you have the gift?
Honestly, you cannot tell that Robert Tilton is pretending (poorly)?:
This is so over the top pathetic I am embarrassed for Tilton. My reaction is a combination of disgust and an empathy of humiliation for him.
Here he is later in life pretending to understand what he just blabbed:
The bible says it sounds like gibberish to believers, too. That's why you're admonished to do it in private rather than in church; it's useless in church since it is unintelligible.
And why does God require you to speak out loud to him in gibberish, anyway? He must have very warped sense of humor.
Of course anyone who pretends they can interpret the gibberish is full of hubris and is likely a false prophet.
It is rather embarrassing. And those poor suckers who fall for it and send in their money to these charlatans ...
its A heretical doctrine and practice created by the Church of Rome
That’s not what I said or intended. I meant I can’t be inside their spirit. The believer DOES know whether it’s genuine because of the intimacy we experience with the Lord while speaking in tongues or other manifestations of the power and presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer
the Holy Spirit is God present in a believer. And as Jesus declared in John 14, the Holy Spirit is exactly like Jesus in Divine Nature
Again I don’t know if Tilton has the gift of interpretation, but the Bible teaches that we can pray to have that accompanying gift. I have both among the gifts the Lord has given me, as have many others over the centuries of the Church.
Funny how each sect claims to be the only true one, and all the others are heretics.
Lots of people were brutally murdered due to that way of thinking. It smacks of false prophecy to me, and we all know how Jesus felt about that. People thinking they're godlike ... Jesus won't know them.
It's a source of endless amusement to me:)
Difference between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues
Praying in tongues is between the individual believer and God. It can be silent or out loud if the assembly of believers is agreed to it. As a pastor there are times when I call for believers to pray and state that praying in tongues out loud is encouraged as long as you don’t overwhelm the gathering. I do this ONLY when I know that everyone gathered is a born again believer
Many believers are encouraged by this practice and some have at times heard a unique message to them not understood by others. The person praying in tongues sometimes experiences a sense in the Spirit that a word of encouragement or understanding is directed to someone
Speaking in Tongues is when a person receives a prophetic message in the Spirit. By prophetic I do not mean foretelling
Paul explains it this way
“But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.” 1 Corinthians 14:3-5
“If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.” (1 Corinthians 14.27-28)
Paul addresses the gibberish comment by unbelievers (I’ve seen it many times)
“but in the church setting I would rather speak five words that can be understood than ten thousand exotic words in a tongue. That way I could have a role in teaching others. If the entire church comes together and everyone is speaking in tongues, won’t the visitors say that you have lost your minds?”
1 Corinthians 14:19,23
Nowhere did I say I belong to the only “true sect”. I’m not sectarian. I have many dear brothers and sisters in Christ across many denominations
But we are commanded (especially those of us called and trained in apologetics) to defend the faith and rebuke those with false doctrines
2 Timothy 4:1,2. “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching”
“Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.” Titus 2:15
“Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I was compelled to write to you [urgently] appealing that you fight strenuously for [the defense of] the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints [the faith that is the sum of Christian belief that was given verbally to believers].”
Jude 1:3 Amplified Translation
I know. He is a bottom-feeding lying societal leech who has made a career of pretending to be blessed by God and able to intercede with God on behalf of others who send him money. He has no 'gift' of interpretation nor does he have the 'gift' of tongues.
Well, I suppose that's all that really matters in the end. It's not like it's hurting anyone.
Pretty sure that religious fervor and mental illness are the same thing.
One of the true indicators of an ignorant mind is mocking whatever is beyond your capacity to understand.
Then you should definitely quit doing so...
Do you believe Robert Tilton (video in article) is actually speaking in tongues?
Speaking in tongues is nothing more than gibberish the ignorant and/or gullible buy into as some divine act. If I spoke Klingon in front of a congregation, I'll bet there will be some who think I'm "speaking in tongues."
Anyone who supposedly speaks in tongues and tries to fleece others and profit from i's clearly a con artist. The fact that people believe it and buy into it only proves my point.
That would be far more credible since Klingon is actually a language with a vocabulary and syntactic structure.
But god''s language somehow lacks those basic linguistic qualities. Go figure.
I wonder how many Christians believe there are people who truly are channeling the words of the Holy Spirit when they are speaking in tongues. I am confident that all (or very close to all) of my Christian friends and family would deem glossolalia to be the nonsense that it clearly is. Hopefully my tiny sample is somewhat representative of USA Christians. Christians in third world nations (and certain pockets of the southeast USA) are an entirely different matter. I would not be surprised if they largely believed this stuff to be true.
I tend to think the majority of them believe it to be true. If they believe in a god, believing people speak in tongues is not so far off.
There is quite a continuum of belief ranging from (essentially) deism (Christians who believe there must be something behind all of this) through habitual Christians (believe in the teachings in general but largely ignore the majority of what is taught) to devout Christians who are totally in. Finally we have those who are so in that they believe whatever the religion (or church) tells them. This final group does not reflect how my friends and family operate. They tend to be mostly habitual Christians. The ones who think about their religions tend to be more deists than theists. They dismiss most of their religions as man-made but hold to the idea of a God.
Not sure Larry, if I had the gift of "tongues", a few ladies would be privy to my secret.
True, seems odd to me that we have ~7 religions, all the same 'god', and 7 different books. Makes no sense at all.
1) What's the difference, and;
2) How can you tell the difference?
As with most religious miracles nowadays, the miracle is always something that has a plausible natural explanation. Some people claim that they have been ' cured ' of cancer by spiritual means yet medically it is known that cancer sometimes naturally goes into remission. What would be impressive, however, is a miracle in which something happens that cannot ( per our knowledge ) happen naturally. For example, how about growing a new limb on an amputee, reversing Down syndrome, healing a defective heart?
Glossolalia ( conveniently ) is indistinguishable from gibberish. The linguistic structure emitted does not correlate with natural language ( no linguistic constructs such as grammar ) and there is no ( big surprise ) translation. Thus there is nothing that stops anyone from emitting gibberish and claiming they are powered by the spirit of God. Conveniently, there is no claim made by the practicing glossolaliate that can be falsified. But others can watch this show and common sense will typically reveal that they are watching utter nonsense.
Now if the utterances from glossolalia were from a current or ancient natural language that the speaker did not know, or if the utterances actually formed an unknown language ( linguistic science is available to apply the tests ) then that would really be something. But, alas, the utterances are gibberish and those who produce and consume the utterances have built a belief system around gibberish being spiritually meaningful.
As I stated, I already knew that for Atheists like yourself, this spiritual relationship with God is beyond your capacity to understand
Paul explains this in his first letter to the believers in Corinth
”And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, “Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?” But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 2:12-16
And from JBPhillips translation on the “tongues passage in the letter to the believers in Corinth
”Follow, then, the way of love, while you set your heart on the gifts of the Spirit. The highest gift you can wish for is to be able to speak the messages of God. The man who speaks in a “tongue” addresses not men (for no one understands a word he says) but God: and only in his spirit is he speaking spiritual secrets. But he who preaches the word of God is using his speech for the building up of the faith of one man, the encouragement of another or the consolation of another. The speaker in a “tongue” builds up his own soul, but the preacher builds up the Church of God. I should indeed like you all to speak with “tongues”, but I would much rather that you all preached the word of God. For the preacher of the word does a greater work than the speaker with “tongues”, unless of course the latter interprets his word for the benefit of the Church. If I pray in a “tongue” my spirit is praying but my mind is inactive. I am therefore determined to pray with my spirit and my mind, and if I sing I will sing with both spirit and mind. Otherwise, if you are blessing God with your spirit, how can those who are ungifted say amen to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are talking about? You may be thanking God splendidly, but it doesn’t help the other man at all. I thank God that I have a greater gift of “tongues” than any of you, yet when I am in Church I would rather speak five words with my mind (which might teach something to other people) than ten thousand words in a “tongue” which nobody understands.”
1 Corinthians 14:1,5,14
Now if the utterances from glossolalia were from a current or ancient natural language that the speaker did not know, or if the utterances actually formed an unknown language (linguistic science is available to apply the tests) then that would really be something. But, alas, the utterances are gibberish and those who produce and consume the utterances have built a belief system around gibberish being spiritually meaningful
im not aware of any linguistics science that knows the language of God
Indeed. If the language of God is coming forth then it is indistinguishable from gibberish.
But this gibberish shows patterns from the speaker's known natural languages. Thus if a speaker is Italian the gibberish will contain elements present in the Italian (and similar) language such as rolling r's. Also, the 'words' are formed from phonemes familiar to the speaker.
Apparently the language of God varies per individual. Seems God has plenty of very different languages eerily similar to the base patterns of languages known to the speaker and apparently the common element is that all of them lack the linguistic structure of grammar and semantic consistency. That is, they all possess the linguistic style known as gibberish.
Agreed, which were a god to actually do this would further prove its fallibility, I mean why communicate to someone in a language neither they nor anyone else can understand. No message can be passed on, no knowledge is gained, what is the point of god bothering to do it. Personally if it really happened (ie I wasn't faking or scamming) to me I would just assume I was having a stroke, seizure or possibly some sort of mental collapse.
Really makes God seem like a total idiot, doesn't it.
Lol makes him seem like a myth made up by many people a really long time ago who were completely ignorant of how the world actually works.
Well, that would explain why God epitomizes the worst of human flaws - jealousy, rage, egotism, and such.
Narcissism seems to be God's major flaw
That's for sure. Three of the Ten Commandments are all about its ego.
The same people who, presumably, wouldn't want to be friends with someone who threatened to torture them if they didn't grovel - worship a being that they think is so evil as to do just that. It's mind boggling.
The idea that a person would have to speak to God out loud is bizarre anyway. Isn't God supposed to have supernatural powers and be aware of what you're thinking?
Probably because narcissism was the major flaw of the creator(s) of God.
This is an excellent video MoCowGirl. Thing is, few believers will watch this very far. Those who do will shake their heads in denial and make comments along the line of 'you just do not understand'. In other words, this video appeals to those who will put reason at least on par with faith. Most believers, however, seem to have faith preempt reason (in matters of religion that is).
I was happy to share it.
I just discovered misterdeity videos this afternoon while watching a new Seth Andrews video. He has many videos that address religious belief from A to Z. If you aren't acquainted with misterdeity, I believe you will really enjoy his productions.
Like many (if not most) atheists, I was a (childhood indoctrinated) true evangelical believer (for over 5 decades of my life). Reading discussions between atheists and theists made me research for the origins of evolution and the origin of Yahweh to prove that theists were right and atheists were minions of Satan. I still remember my shock and disbelief as my research yielded facts that destroyed the propaganda that I had been taught in childhood and had based my entire existence upon.
Because of my own journey out of propaganda, I sympathize with people who struggle to give up the promise of eternal paradise......however, the Bible does not promise eternal paradise so I suspect that many are too frightened to consider disbelief because of the fear of eternal damnation by the same god that they proclaim is loving. There is little worse in life that being taught that abuse means love.
As for eternity.....
Religions have, over time, devised spectacular devices for ensnaring minds and keeping the faithful faithful. The promise of everlasting life and the threat of eternal damnation were masterstrokes as was the notion that faith (believing without evidence) is a virtue that should be strengthened and that even considering the possibility of doubt (any critical thinking whatsoever) is the work of Satan trying to corrupt you. Add 'the Lord works in mysterious ways' and other general purpose excuses for the obvious inconsistencies between religion and common sense and you have a system of mass mind control that works even in modern times.
But yet, people are magically able to speak gods language and know it? And that makes sense to you?
Still waiting Larry.
You're totally confusing people speaking real languages, where others were able to understand them, with people babbling gibberish in a religious frenzy.
You yourself grew up in a family where babbling gibberish was accepted as normal, so it's no wonder that you started exhibiting the same behavior. No gods required, just your mind playing tricks on you.
There is a member of NT who regularly posts his (her?) comments in "tongue", requiring members whose use of the English language is normal to wade through such a quagmire that it discourages intelligent members from even bothering to waste their time deciphering it.
There is more than one
It is my understanding the "speaking in tongues" was a result of the early 1st century disciples following Jesus command at Mark 16:15
An experience being these early disciples found themselves in lands where people spoke foreign languages or "tongues".
The Holy Spirit gave the ability to speak these "tongues" so as to communicate to these people of foreign languages.
It wasn't gibberish for either the disciples or to those who the disciples preach to. It was coherent language conveying the word of Jesus and his Father.
This being the case, in my understanding, any gibberish nonsense is simply gibberish nonsense.
P.S. I think this began at Pentacost 33CE. The Fiftieth (Shavuot) year celebration of the first fruits that fell on 33 CE.
Did God all upset about The Tower Of Babble reaching him have anything to do with it? From what I remember, he made everyone involved speak in different tongues to stop its completion.
In my understanding, I think that is a misinterpretation by many.
If we are going to look at the story chronologically according to how "we" got the the Tower of Babel, let's go back to Genesis 9:1 after the Flood.
Instead, what did the descendants of Noah's family do?
Let's take a look at Genesis 11:1-9:
This is from the English Standard Version. Again, just grab any version and the same basic idea is conveyed.
Basically, instead of following being fruitful, and multiplying and filling the earth, the descendants of Noah's family said:
In turn, what did the Lord do?
I hope you don't consider this proselytizing, as when a Torah/Biblical story is the topic. I don't know what else to reference with regard to a Torah/Biblical story.
I have been ridiculed for in the past by one of our illustrious posters, but when a Torah/Biblical story is the topic, I don't think I will find much reference material in the Readers Digest, National Geographic, et al. Really, think I have to go to the Torah or Bible or same may say Pentateuch for Torah.
Those these references used come from a Christian Bible, the English Standard Version.
I am the first to admit that I know little of the bible. I appreciate you giving me the 411.
I think many members of the Pentecostal Church and Assembly of God Church feel they must fake the speaking in tongues or they won't be accepted as members.
I think all speaking in tongues is bullshit.
I am trying to imagine how anyone observes this without shaking their heads in disgust over the utter silliness. But then there are those who claim to have this 'gift' and appear to actually believe that they are doing something other than generating gibberish.
I learned what Pentecost actually meant when I went thru RCIA. It's when the disciples were given the "gift of tongues" and told by Jesus to go out and spread the good news. That's when it dawned on me that the "gift of tongues" was the disciples being able to speak in Hebrew, Greek, and whatever other languages were in the Middle East and beyond 2000 years ago (possibly Turkish?).
Anyway...I asked Father Bob about it and when I said so speaking in tongues is basically bull shit? he explained that it is only legitimate if someone can interpret it and that the language actually exists, even if it is an ancient language. But yes, for the most part, Father Bob agreed that it was bull shit.
Operative word being "appear".
I'm not sure how many actually believe it and how much it is for attention, or acceptance as TG points out, or a feeling of superiority over other people in the church, or some other reason totally unrelated to worship.
Proof of how powerful indoctrination into religion really is and why we must quit allowing religious beliefs to govern our society on any level.
I posted this info elsewhere, but will share here also because I feel it is critical to understand that this movement to eradicate the separation of church and state did not begin in 2016 after the election of Trump. The US government has been funneling federal welfare money directly to churches since GWBush ordered it by presidential directive and bypassed Congress. It continued under Obama. There is really no oversight or accountability by how the religious organizations use the money as far as I know. If someone knows otherwise, I would be interested in the facts.
This week I am watching a documentary titled "The Family" on Netflix. The documentary is based on a book by the same name that was published in 2009. I wholeheartedly recommend the documentary to anyone who is interested on the men in our government who are behind abolishing the separation of church and state in the United States. This has been an ongoing movement for around 70 years according to the documentary. It is a non-denominational cult using Jesus as their central figure. This is not a Jesus of love, but a Jesus of power seeking to control and dominate the sheeple through his "chosen" rulers (who of course are self-chosen, but are equally self-deluded that they have been destined to rule).
For a quick timeline of "Religious Freedom" laws and some background on the people who stood solidly behind them check out the Time's article at the link below.
I started watching the family but I wasn't "getting" it. Now that you've explained what the cult is about, I think I'm starting to understand. I have to sit down and actually watch it without the kindle in hand and without lying down. I go to sleep when I lie down
I watched the first 3 episodes back to back and had to take a break because I was disgusted at how easily this cult has amassed worldwide power during my lifetime in plain view and there is no end in sight at this time.
I remember when governor Sanford outed the C Street prayer group and the reporting of the various members. It was reported that Hillary became an insider of the group while Bill was president.
These folks believe that they rule through divine right - that they have "turns". This could be one of the reasons (or the main reason) that the media surrounding Hillary often used the phrase that it was "her turn". I have always found that phrasing very odd because I never considered that anyone was entitled to a "turn" in political office. After watching the documentary, it seems that this cult feels entitled to their "turn" at ruling the sheeple. And why not? They have been fairly successful at it for many decades.
Divine right? Good grief! They're not kings and queens!
that explains so much about the 2016 election.
Watch the documentary. They believe that they are the "wolves" of Jesus that keep the sheeple of the world in line.
This cult includes both Ds and Rs - as well as international dictators. The goal is nothing less than world domination -in the name of Jesus, of course. There is no way that they plan to lose. And there is no way that they can lose as long as we continue to elect the members of their cult and fight among ourselves that the D cult rep is better than the R cult rep and vice versa.
If you have the time and inclination, you might want to watch the following video that discusses childhood indoctrination, the struggle to leave religious indoctrination behind and how religious indoctrination shapes society throughout the US.
so might the following shed light on Clinton's confidence in her ability to work with the "other" side...
I was raised Pentecostal but I'm guessing we were more moderate than others cause no one ever spoke in tongues or did the spastic horizontal floor dance. Hell come to think of it I'm pretty sure if someone had done either we would have called 911.
Personally I'm with you it's complete BS
My mom was raised Pentecostal, but like your church, there was no speaking in tongues, so far as she remembers.
The church I grew up in taught that it was legit, though. But they also taught that it was rare, and more or less useless, as nobody else could interpret. I never actually heard anybody speak in tongues, or pretend to.
Lol honestly I never even knew there was such a thing as speaking in tongues until well into adulthood
I think I remember hearing it spoken of when I was in middle school, maybe high school. It wasn't long after that when I heard of snake handling.
Never understood that one.
Don't recall of any descriptions of Jesus doing it, other than telling satan "Get behind me satan".
According to the military, that's what I am. Told them Catholic but pfft, Pentecostal right there on my dog tags.
Same for me but about 20(ish) years ago the policy changed and those of us that chose to do so could leave the religion spot blank.
Well, the bible even says you shouldn't speak in tongues in church, that you should do it in private.
Funny how the zealots never seem to read their own bible.
Oh wow, I didn't know that. I got out in 1991, so, been a while and I admit I don't keep up on military rules that much anymore.
Sorry didn't mean to mislead you, I'm Canadian and have no idea what the past or current US military rules are.
I see.
I am of the thought, I need to see compelling evidence that anything beyond verse 8 of Mark 16 belongs.
Most consider verse 9 and beyond as coming from another author as an add on and does not match with verses 1 - 8.
Luke 10:19 doesn't speak of handling snakes or serpents but, imo, is more in line with "Get behind me satan".
It seems to me that it was meant to be metaphorical, but some folks take it literally, even to the point of death.
I would agree with that.