U.S. military is discharging service members who refuse to get vaccinated : Coronavirus Updates : NPR
By: NPR. org
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Updated December 17, 20214:47 PM ET Originally published December 17, 20213:44 PM ET
Matthew S. Schwartz
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Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin speaks during a media briefing at the Pentagon last month. The military branches have begun discharging people who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19. Alex Brandon/AP hide caption
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Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin speaks during a media briefing at the Pentagon last month. The military branches have begun discharging people who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19.
Alex Brandon/AP
Members of the U.S. military who haven't been vaccinated against COVID-19 are starting to face the consequences. Military officials announced this week that, after months of warnings, they have begun disciplinary actions — including discharge.
The Air Force was the first of the branches to announce dismissals, saying Tuesday it had discharged 27 people who refused to get the vaccine. On Thursday, the Marines said it had discharged 103 troops. The Army has reprimanded 2,700 soldiers and said it will begin discharge proceedings in the new year. And the Navy this week told commanders to start "administrative separations" for "vaccine refusers."
Coronavirus Updates
The Pentagon Has Moved Toward Making Vaccines Mandatory For Service Members
But the vast majority of the armed services have followed orders. In the Navy, 98.4% of its force fully vaccinated, according to the Associated Press. The Air Force says 97.5% have received at least one shot. Army officials said that 98% of active-duty forces have received at least one dose of the vaccine, while 96% — nearly half a million people — are fully vaccinated. About 95% of Marine Corps forces have gotten at least one shot.
That still leaves potentially thousands of active-duty soldiers who might be forced out in the coming weeks or months. Although that would slightly reduce the size of the military, the Pentagon says it's important to keep that in perspective.
In the Army's case, for instance, less than 1% of the force has refused the vaccine. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin is most concerned with "the readiness of the force and the importance of the vaccine," Pentagon press secretary John Kirby told reporters. Getting the vaccine, he said, is "the best way to protect themselves and their units.
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New CDC guidance encourages more testing to limit school quarantines
The Pentagon began requiring members of the military to get vaccinated in late summer. There are "active discussions" within the Pentagon about requiring booster shots as well, Kirby said. The booster shot provides strong protection against the omicron variant of the coronavirus, medical officials have said.
Thousands of troops across the services have asked for exemptions from the vaccine requirement, some of which have been granted. Medical exemptions are often available when, for instance, someone is allergic to a vaccine ingredient, or has an underlying health condition that could cause adverse reactions.
At least 12,000 service members have asked for religious exemptions, none of which have yet been granted. Religious exemptions are "always rare," Kirby told reporters earlier this month.
"This has absolutely nothing to do with trampling on the religious liberties of our men and women in uniform," he said. "It's about a military medical requirement to keep them safe, to keep their family safe, to keep their units safe."
The Pentagon has also required all National Guard members to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, but some states have pushed back. Republican governors from five states wrote to the defense secretary this week arguing that the Pentagon didn't have the authority to discharge Guard members for refusing the vaccine.
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Trolling, taunting, and off-topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that vote up their own comments or continue to disrupt the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve the continuity of this seed.
I have three relatives that are on active duty (two are lifers, 10th Mountain and 173rd Airborne) the other in his first enlistment in the AF....They all have both doses of the vaccine, they were not going to risk their health, their families' health, or their buddies, not to mention their careers.
since when has our armed forces become a democracy. they all knew that when they signed on the line to join. any refusal of a directive is clear insubordination and grounds for discharge or worse. get the anti-vaxers out and continue up the brass chain of command to remove any and all that think the way they do. keep our military strong by eradicating the people that have now shown to be a liability to it. a general discharge is a gift to that trash.
People sometimes forget that when they sign on that dotted line their ass no longer belongs to them. There's a reason they are called GIs...government issue
Anyone refusing to get vaccinated should be discharged and lose all benefits.
It's hard to claim a religious exemption when you've already let them vaccinate you for everything from measles and polio to parvo.
Can't follow the rules? Then leave.
Do not care about others and your duty? Then leave.
That's it.
In many cases, young soldiers are there for the MOS training, a paycheck, free housing, free food, free medical/dental, and educational benefits only. They serve the minimum time required to achieve this. They don't give a shit about their oaths or serving the country, only themselves.
Any word on what level of discharge these folks will receive? Imagine not only throwing away your career over a vaccine, but benefits as well.
A few days ago there was an article that those with enough time in to retire will be allowed to retire with an honorable discharge those that didn't would receive a general discharge. I'm not sure if that is all services or not.
I think General is still ok in that respect. You pretty much need an OTH, bad conduct or dishonorable to be barred from benefits. Still, it doesn’t look or feel good. At minimum, it may make potential employees look upon them with some trepidation.
There is quite a bit of difference in discharges, and in the general discharge. Here is a pretty good link explaining.
I am an old Army S-1 rat and those who can't retire will receive general discharges. I am betting that new regs will be put into effect to cover this specifically.
From what I hear if they are unvaccinated there won't be all that many potential employers to begin with
i read pretty much the same , about to retire or those that are coming up on end of enlistment on current contract , get an honorable , those that have a year or more on their contract of enlistment will get a general .
about the only type of discharge that even matters anymore is the dishonorable or bad conduct one , all the rest dont mean a thing in the real world .
They have no excuse for not getting vaccinated.
Exactly, and the military is showing them that it is unacceptable.
I wonder what some of our NT vets have to say or think about this.
As a member of the military, you have voluntarily given up some personal rights for the good of the unit. In basic (oh so many years ago now) we lined up and were marched thru rooms to receive all sorts of vaccines and immunizations without any though given of personal rights as we knew that sometimes the needs of the military are higher than our personal issues. I don't know the policy the military would follow for those who are allergic to a component of the vaccine, if they would remain in service or receive a medical discharge or what. But the basic thing is that if higher authority as ordered that all service members receive the vaccine then that's what the plan is.
Agreed Snuffy, I lost count of the number of vaccines I had in my time in the military. You did not have a choice it was line up, roll up both sleeves, and walk the gauntlet.
The one I remember the most was the one for typhoid. Years later I got typhoid anyway with a strain the shot didn't protect me from.
And walk out bleeding from both arms...
You betcha -
Yep, them vaccination guns were fun things!
Of all things , in 10 years active service , the only shot i had a reaction to that caused me to be hospitalized was of all things , the stinking flu shot .
got an exemption for that , but havent had one since either .
I was an Army Brat and everytime we transferred, my medical/health/shot records went with us to the next station and was given to the school I was enrolled in. Numerous times we kiddies were lined up to go get our "currency shot/vaccinations". No questions - just shots/immunizations. Parents totally in favor of the procedures and this was in the 50'/60's.
Joined the Marines - you got'm when they said you gonna gett'm. Same with when I was in the Coast Guard. Just a notice from our "PA" the day before, line up, get poked and life went on. No questions - just shots/immunizations.
Hell, in 'Nam, we had our 90 day GG shots (which side of the ass this time Marine?) - plus others - no questions - take'm or get busted/discharged.
The meds/shots we received were for our benefit and the benefit of our ability to hit the front line when needed - no sick bay excuses either. I and the folks in my units all felt the same - you aren't properly medicated, you're letting your buddies down 'cause you aren't ready/able to perform your duties.
Today's "Snowflake" society will fight anything THEY don't want and futch the other guy/person/being. Military discipline is for the benefit of all (believe it or not) and, as stated by others here, you sign the paper, you get the whole deal. You don't wanna play ball?? Get off the ballfield - simple as that.
JMHO.
Tell me about it. As a Hospital Corpsman, I had to get my shots ahead of everybody else in the unit. Hard to feel sorry for Marines complaining about side effects when you already have them while you are vaccinating other folks.
I can only imagine. I worked in the Med Group so we were always first in line
if they're trump supporters, who cares. they've already violated their military oaths to defend the constitution from all domestic enemies.
I consider any and every Trump supporter in the armed forces traitors. THROW THEM OUT!
they're traitors if they still support trumpski after 1/6/21...
The Military does not support the president of the US, Unless this nation has become a dictatorship and did away with the constitution while I was asleep...
trump isn't the president. he's a criminal and insurrectionist.
Not a vet yet as I'm still serving (10 months to go) but I'm fine with this. My biggest issue with pers that won't vax is due to other countries regulations they cannot deploy to the various places we go which means those that do vax get more than their share of deployments, family separation, workload, etc
You are a vet, Freefaller an active duty vet so your opinion is real-world, real-time.
Thanks for the input and it kinda matches with my relatives that expressed much the same sentiment re deployments among other things.
that's not fair to the vaxed service members. the military can't let these jerks slide on this crap. what's next, "I can't deploy because I don't want another hole in me due to gunpowder propelled lead?"
it sounds like the anti-vaxxers need to be charged with "Missing Movement." hehe seems like we are back to summary court martial and OTH or BCD.
I gave four years of my young life to the USAF. We had no choice when it came to the haircut or the shots
When you swear that oath, you've handed your ass over to the US government, you do what they tell you to as long as it doesn't violate your oath...
If you don't, get the fuck out...
It's true. It's true. A lawful order is a lawful order - even if or when it can kill ya. The only complain I can understand is the "short-timers." Other than that, if you are going to be quartered and working with others follow orders! The defense department must be the "brain" in the military 'body.'
AS a service member your NOT charged with following all orders of a superior officer appointed over you...
You ARE charged with following all LAWFUL orders of those appointed over you... As service personnel you are always Responsible for the orders YOU choose to follow... And should always know what is a lawful order and what isn't... Read the USCMJ if you doubt this in any way, it's replete with many cases of claims of "I was only following orders" that have been rejected for cause...
A trooper is ALWAYS individually responsible for his actions while in uniform...
What the heck are you telling me, Nowhere Man?! Who in the "heaven" is talking about any "unlawful-lawful" order here? It seems some here are so intent on being contrary, abrasive, and patronizing that any positive statement is bound for failure-since some here do not wish to agree with their fellow servicemembers over 'routine.'
"Choose to follow (orders)" that is an interesting term of phrase. I'll bite. During your service time (assuming it is so) did every order you follow suit your 'fancy' too? Apparently, you can't accept that I enhanced your comment with a comment of my own. Wow! Wow! Wow! We have got a lot of work to do in this country to get back to respect for one another!
I offered nothing about any 'shady-dealing' order or even questionable order, if you choose to introduce 'shady-deals' into the discussion can you do so in a stand-alone comment?
No problem with the military discharging them if those are the rules they want to enforce; and that is the rabbit whole they want to go down.
It is not like they aren't already on a witch hunt trying to root out white supremacists.
As far as having an effective fighting force with China and Russia both being serious threats..... That is on Mr Woke in the Oval Office. Knowing a few combat veterans that are facing discharge- they had better not try recalling them when the shit hits the fan. They will get a two finger salute as a response. (Of course Biden would get the same response from recently retired combat veterans that are fully vaccinated if they tried to recall them to active duty. Afghanistan doesn't sit well with them.)
It is not like the military will be able to rapidly replace those they are forcing out.
.
Guess maintaining an effective fighting force is not high on Biden's agenda.
Not a rabbit hole at all discipline is the key to military cohesive operations. Don't like the rules don't join the military.
Not a witch hunt at all, if they are in the military run their racist ass out, perhaps they can join some militia.
Speaking to my active duty career NCOs relatives both serving with front line combat units are losing no one and are quite happy that the selfish assholes are being forced out.
Guess that you're making wild ass guesses.
So, discharge someone when they have violated no military rules or regulations over who their family members might be; or who they may have associated with in the past. Welcome to the woke military.
Well past time to get the leftist loons out power.
Who said they didn't violate any military rules, you?
I would much rather be in the woke military than in the denial coma some are in.
Aren't they violating regulations when they refuse to take a vaccine? I would address this to Ronin but he wants me to ignore him
Exactly.
Do you actually have a position on whether or not the military should be vaccinated or not?
Your deflections are getting more bizarre each time you comment.
too bad there isn't a vaccine for military brainwashing. it's evident that some have no resistance.
It goes back to idea that you don't want someone guarding your back who you can't trust! A BLACK man with his six being guarded by a White Supremacist, on patrol would sound like a recipe for a friendly-fire incident....
I may have replied to the wrong person, sorry.
You did, no worries.
You're making this unnecessarily political. Why?
Since retired military are actually still 'connected' to and paid by the DoD, if recalled, their response will be 'yes sir' or they can be court martialed and lose their pension.
What about discharged military? Since that is what my comment was about. Think they are suddenly going to change their minds and get the vaccinations?
As for the retired vets. Guess Biden had better hope it never comes to it. He will find out how little of a fighting force he really has left.
depends on the contract actually and if all terms have been met .
even after retirement , the retirees have to conform with good conduct , that is how they get you , as for the rest , it will depend on if all aspects of the contract has been completed , such as having completed the required amount of time in the reserves , be it active or inactive , or guard service .
Everyone knows about the 214 discharge , after completion of all service obligations , such as mentioned above , a 256 is issued , which basically is a total and complete discharge with the DOD having no authority or claim on the individual since their service obligation has been filled .
But as you mentioned , retirement and pension , can be affected because ot the agreement within the contract for "to remain of good character and conduct ones self in a manner that will not bring discredit on the branch of service ".
i was 214 discharged honorably in 1992 , due to reserve commitment i got my actual "freedom " honorable discharge (256) in 1995 .
Yeah, my DD 214 says otherwise.
Wait WHAT? Let me look. Yep, here it is, from YOUR post Ronin:
I directly address your claim with facts.
Again, they then chose court martial and lose of their pension.
Really? What does it say Jeremy?
Some humility should be called for here. Overstating (and believing the hype) one's worth in the scheme of life and the destiny of this country is just well unacceptable. How will the country make it after some of y'all, us, are gone for good? Well, don't we all hope just fine!
We should all be pulling together as a whole nation instead of pulling (ourselves) apart into miserable fragments! Surely, there is no cope for us if insidious politics wins over and leaks out the esprit de corps (breaks the bonds) military people place in each other.
26 years 22 days total Active Duty Service. Retired. My total Active Duty Service ensures I cannot not be recalled. My age ensures I will cannot be recalled. And there are thousands of others like myself that cannot be recalled. My pension and benefits will not be messed with if it tell them I'm not coming.
Under what section does it say that on your DD 214 Jeremy?
It's becoming obvious that you haven't served and don't have a DD214.
The information you are looking for is in Block 12 of the DD214. From there you reference Army Regulation 601-210 and MILPER Messages for the current RCP guidance.
That is what needs to happen to Flynn, recall him and then courts martial him for treason. Then collect back his retirement pay retroactive to his first documented case of treason.
Treason is the wrong charge - to my knowledge he has not given aide nor comfort to an enemy of war.
And exactly what article of the UCMJ would they be Court Martialed for?
That's irrelevant to the question I asked Jeremy.
Yet that block doesn't state that your total Active Duty Service ensures you cannot not be recalled.
So your DD 214 DOESN'T 'say otherwise' because that information isn't included on it.
Instead of your DD 214, you cited the Army Regulation 601-210 and the RCP guidance for the qualifying information.
So even though it's obvious that you did serve and have a DD 214, your statement was STILL bullshit.
FAIL.
Treason encompass more than that.
Treason is the crime of attacking a state authority to which one owes allegiance.This typically includes acts such as participating in a war against one's native country, attempting to overthrow its government, spying on its military, its diplomats, or its secret services for a hostile and foreign power, or attempting to kill or attempting to kill its head of state. A person who commits treason is known in law as a traitor.
The first part in bold defines J6 to a tee.
Article 92 Jeremy.
Treason fits for everyone involved in Jan. 6, 21
It fits those scum to a tee.
Definitions matter.
You are spot on Paula. Those traitors need to have the book thrown at them. Those who planned it all.
Scum fits way better.
I don't care about your definitions. They're traitors. Especially those who planned it.
That doesn't make them less true.
But it lets me know what I'm dealing with.
"Instead"? Try reading my statement more closely. "The information you are looking for is in Block 12 of the DD214. From there you reference Army Regulation 601-210 and MILPER Messages for the current RCP guidance." Did you miss the first sentence? If so I made if bold for you. Block 12 works out my total Time In Service. Referring to AR 601-210 and MILPER Messages will tell you if somebody with that amount of Time In Service can be recalled.
The only reason my statement seems like BS to you is because of your lack of knowledge and / or inability / unwillingness to do the necessary research. I gave you everything you need to work it all out yourself. The same way many of us retirees work it out.
Like I said - WHATEVER!
yeah, no. Anybody with a DD214 is released from military service. We do not have to abide by any military regulations. The only exception to that would be if you worked on a military installation. And even then the UCMJ is not one that applies.
You should have known that the second that you posted in Sinners and Buttheads Jeremy.
Thanks for confirming what said.
No Jeremy, it IS BS because you said that 'Block 12 of the DD214' said it Jeremy.
Then you threw in a crap load of equivocation to cover your ass.
Well gee Jeremy, the discussion was about those that recently retired and WERE eligible for recall. Try to keep up.
Now, now, Tessylo! Care about definitions. Because what is good in one argument for and against, is good in another of equal stature. Play fair! (Smile.)
It doesn't.
As someone who served active duty in the Navy for 20 years and 10 years inactive Fleet Reserve, I wish Biden and his minions lots of luck trying to recall me!
Actually, that is not necessarily true. Most military enlistments come with a inactive reserve clause at the end of the term of enlistment that allows service members to be recalled to active duty, DD 214 or not. That clause has only been enforced once since the Korean War and that was for Desert Storm. I saw a lot of pissed off sailors that got letters from the DOD telling them that they were being recalled to active duty.
I believe that in 2020 Trump issued a IRR order.
You mean this one....
Issued, but never implemented I believe.
... as they should be...
we already know what kind of americans anti-vaxers are...
placing all the blame of afghanistan on biden's shoulders is just more proof that these examples of military personnel, active or retired, are much too ignorant and insubordinate to be a part of the service.
america and the military is better off without them...
who needs service people that won't carry out an order due to ignorance and/or cowardice.
I have been a squad leader many times. I would rather be short a few personnel than to have those who would put another soldier's health at risk.
Indeed.
damn straight and that's what we have now is a bunch of morons that are not only willing to gamble with their lives, they're willing to gamble with everyone else's. anybody want to go to war with that type of selfish mentality? no. it sure as hell isn't the level of patriotism you'd expect in the service of our country.
The defense department simply does not have the time or luxury to sort people by vaccination or non-vaccination assignments at-large.
I'll go back if they want me
Due to past legal problems, there is no way I would be recalled, but I would go back if ordered to.
I doubt very much if they would ever recall me mostly because of my age and I gave them every bit of time I signed up for. But if they needed me I would go back
Off on a tangent, huh?
I can't believe Ronin2 wrote that on a subject as serious as this. Where are some people's minds at this point and time? Vaccinations are routine in today's world. And every sophisticated enlisted soldier has to know that his or her service could result in being put in some 'hairy' or grave situations with another individual or team.
What is there to argue about over DOD working hard to save its members' lives? DOD has nothing to gain by 'losing' servicemembers through attrition and forced outs! Nothing! Wide-spread discharges go against force readiness-negatively. Still, service-members deciding service policy: No-NO!
Well, if one has never served one's mind is probably thinking only of oneself. One does not have that luxury in the military. The unit depends on all working together and if that means everybody gets a shot then that's what that means
Emphatically.
I totally believe it.
An effective fighting force hasn't been high on Democrats agenda for decades. This failure administration no different.
Following Ronin down the rabbit hole. The article and questions are about the vaccine do you have a view on that or not?
So we aren't permitted to comment on something somebody said? Or does that only permitted to occur when it fits somebody a particular narrative?
So you don't have a view but prefer to whine.
You could post your own article and complain to your heart's content.
Why don't you answer my questions instead of blathering on.
You seem to have a lock on babbling on, is making an on-topic comment above your pay grade?
So it's just as I thought. My comment doesn't fit a particular narrative so you are going to cry about it.
Happy to hear that you've had a thought. Certainly no crying on my part I leave that to you and you're doing a fine job of it.
BTW, my article my rules, don't like them you should show some initiative and post your own article or you can keep whining, your choice.
I think that everyone who didn't get the vaccine as ordered should be out with an OTH. AN example needs to made! When you enlisted you gave up certain rights to autonomy, etc. YOU belong to the US Gov't. As such these people have now disobeyed a lawful order from the CinC to get vaccinated. Summary Court Martial time and busted out as a E-1. OTH is upgradeable to general discharge. they should not be getting a honorable discharge for refusing to obey orders.
Good.
Good.
Read another article yesterday saying that religious exemptions are rarer than hens teeth for the military and it really surprised those that are looking for them. One Chaplin was saying the service personnel were often surprised that he wasn't the one making the decision. He could only add a memo to the case file.
I think that is something recruiters look into when trying to get you to sign on the dotted line. I could be wrong