Fight Over Voting Rules Revs Up in Georgia
By: Cameron McWhirter and Jon Kamp (WSJ)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
ATLANTA—Georgia lawmakers are gearing up for a brawl over proposed election-law changes, following key Democratic victories in this longtime Republican stronghold.
Republican lawmakers are pitching new bills that would add requirements or restrictions to mail-in voting, which was used heavily by Georgia voters during the coronavirus pandemic and helped President Joe Biden and two Democratic senators secure wins .
Republicans say changes are needed to shore up shaken public faith in the voting process. “There has been so much noise and misinformation about the election that I think we’ve got to restore confidence,” Georgia state Sen. Larry Walker III, vice chairman of the Republican Senate caucus, said in an interview.
Democrats said the proposals are attempts by recent election losers to game the system. Georgia held two recounts and a forensic partial audit and found no widespread fraud. “Those [Republican] policies are not based on any kind of evidence,” said state Rep. Bee Nguyen, a Democrat from Atlanta.
Former President Donald Trump ’s defeat—and his repeated, unsupported claims that the election was rigged —have amplified a long-running political debate over election laws. Proponents of adding voter requirements or restrictions often say they are needed to guard against fraud. Opponents of the restrictions say fraud is rare and such laws make it harder to vote.
Georgia has allowed no-excuse absentee voting under a 2005 law passed by a Republican-controlled Legislature. The pandemic caused this method to surge in popularity. About 849,000 of the 1.3 million residents who voted by mail chose Mr. Biden; about 450,000 voted for Mr. Trump. The Democrat won the state by about 12,000 votes out of 5 million cast.
Several bills proposed by Republican Georgia state legislators would change rules for mail-in voting, including one that would require voters to supply a reason to vote absentee. Other bills would ban absentee-ballot drop boxes and set limits on who can mail absentee applications to voters.
One proposal would require people to provide proof of identification when applying for mail-in ballots and when they send in ballots. People voting in person in Georgia are required to provide an I.D.
GOP-backed legislation stretches beyond voting by mail, including proposals to end automatic voter registration when people get a driver’s license and to expand poll watchers’ access in tabulating centers.
Similar fights are brewing in other states that flipped blue in the November election. A Republican-backed bill in Pennsylvania would dial back provisions the GOP-controlled Legislature passed two years ago allowing all voters the option to request and cast a mail-in ballot without giving a reason. A GOP-sponsored measure in Arizona would require mail-in ballots to be notarized.
Debates over numerous bills submitted so far in Georgia’s Senate, with more coming soon from the House, will further stoke tensions among factions within the GOP, which controls both legislative chambers, Republican lawmakers say. Some Republicans say Mr. Trump’s loss was unfair. Others say their party needed to accept defeat and move on.
Mr. Walker said most Republican legislators want to pass some kind of voting legislation, but the deep split within the majority party made the outcome uncertain. “It’s become so fractious,” he said. “I’m not sure we can even get consensus.”
Traditionally, mail-in voting hasn’t benefited either major political party, researchers at Stanford University said in a paper last year. But the 2020 election fueled the perception that the system might benefit Democrats because they received more votes than Republicans this way, said Andrew Hall, a political-science professor at Stanford.
The surge in mail-in voting adds logistical challenges for states, and it makes sense to tweak the rules to improve a process that voters just showed they like, Mr. Hall said. “I don’t think rolling back vote-by-mail is the way to do that,” he said.
Groups supporting expanded voting access said they would fight any law they deem too restrictive. “The system, it ain’t broke so why try to fix it, unless you are going to fix it for your own political benefit,” said Chris Bruce, political director of the ACLU of Georgia.
Although Republicans have long dominated Georgia politics, shifting demographics, including an influx of younger people and minorities who tend to vote Democratic, have made elections tighter here. Republican Gov. Brian Kemp, who has said he is open to adding new mail-in voting requirements, faces a challenge of trying not to offend different GOP factions while gearing up for a re-election run next year.
Georgia Republican leaders, including Mr. Kemp and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, have been struggling to reunite the party since November, when Mr. Trump refused to accept that he lost Georgia. During the Senate runoffs, Mr. Trump attacked Messrs. Kemp and Raffensperger for not helping him overturn his defeat.
GOP leaders say they have to pass some piece of legislation, because many of their longtime supporters have lost faith in elections. Georgia state House Speaker David Ralston said in an interview that he hadn’t seen any signs of widespread voting fraud in Georgia. The elections went smoothly, he said. But many GOP legislators need to assuage angry voters, he said.
“They’ve caught a lot of heat from constituents who were just given the wrong information,” Mr. Ralston said. “Sometimes we have to deal with perception.”
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So, where do we start?
First: "Georgia has allowed no-excuse absentee voting under a 2005 law passed by a Republican-controlled Legislature. The pandemic caused this method to surge in popularity. About 849,000 of the 1.3 million residents who voted by mail chose Mr. Biden; about 450,000 voted for Mr. Trump. The Democrat won the state by about 12,000 votes out of 5 million cast."
Republican state lawmakers brought this upon themselves. Why did they do this? People go to the supermarket during the pandemic, why not the polls? Clearly, no-excuse mail in voting benefits democrats.
Second: “The system, it ain’t broke so why try to fix it, unless you are going to fix it for your own political benefit,” said Chris Bruce, political director of the ACLU of Georgia.
"The system" was created in the 2020 election. It's time to go back to normalcy.
Third: No-excuse mail-in-voting makes voter identification questionable.
Why would it benefit anyone? Republicans have always cheated in elections as much as Democrats.
If there was so much voter fraud in this election , across the country no less, why havent Trump and his people been able to prove any of it? Trump claims millions of votes were stolen or manufactured, and he has no proof?
What happened was Trump wanted a way out, so he believed things he saw on social media and far right forums, and used his bully pulpit on twitter to amplify them. Trump repeated anecdotal instances of voter fraud that turned out to be completely false. The end.
It doesn't? Then you'll have no objection to a return to in person voting.
If there was so much voter fraud in this election
I never claimed there was!
sorry but this is just not true. Arizona has used no-excuse mail-in voting for years without issue. Signature verification is built into the system here.
Mail-in voting can be done effectively and securely. It does need to be set up in advance and you have to build safeguards into it, but if properly set up it is as effective and secure as in-person voting. I've been on the Permanent Early Voting List for years where my ballots arrive by mail early for every election. The rules are easy to follow and verification is built into the system.
I never had any issues with other states who also have vote-by-mail. My only concerns this past election were the states who decided to mail actual ballots out to every registered voter. That IMO is a plan that is very much open to abuse and fraud.
Are you telling us that a handwriting expert checks every mail in signature?
To find out exactly how it's done you would need to ask the State of Arizona. They state that the signature on the envelope that you send your marked ballots in is verified against your signature on file. Being in IT for many years I would expect that a computer can scan the envelopes quickly and verify the majority of them, only kicking out suspect or missing signatures for manual review. Part of the process in Arizona to vote by mail is to verify beforehand that you are who you say you are and to provide your signature that they digitize and keep on file for this process.
TBH anything that happens behind a closed door can be questionable. If you are not there when the action is taking place you must rely on what others tell you happened. I just feel there are more important issues behind this last election that should be fixed rather than fixate on mail-in voting. Such as states who mailed out ballots to every person on the voter rolls, without any attempts to clean up such lists beforehand. Or like the PA elections were handled by Kathy Boockvar handing out her opinions that were contrary to established law.
Unless you can show the existence of mail in voting fraud, to the degree to make any kind of difference, you are asking for a law to prevent a non-existent crime. The only purpose is to disenfranchise as many non-Republican voters as possible.
How would anyone be able to do that?
The only purpose is to disenfranchise as many non-Republican voters as possible.
The mail-in-voters are non-Republican?
I think we know how it's done. Ballots are accepted as valid, unless there is some indication that they are not.
If you are not there when the action is taking place you must rely on what others tell you happened.
That leads to something else also mentioned in the article - having observers and allowing them to be close enough to actually observe what is going on.
Same way you show any law being broken. Duh....
The majority are non-Republicans, yes.
That is the question.
The mail in and ballot drop box voting to me is where there could be enough fraud to change an election. Once the voter signs, seals, and drops the envelope it is now out of their hands, the only way to know their envelope made it to the polling place is to track it, but since there was supposed to be post office delays due to the pandemic and Trump, typically your ballot would show up late, no problem, there was an excuse for that.
Now those envelopes used an adhesive that would release with heat, I found it to be 170 deg. F for a couple minutes in my oven and once cooled the envelope resealed like it had never been opened. Now through workers that could divert envelopes to a processing location every day and pick up the previous days ballots and deliver them to the polling center, the signatures are a spot on match, but the ballot may not be the voters ballot. Ballot harvesting would be ripe with fraud, because the voter doesn't know who they're handing their ballot to. Of course this is my opinion and the only way to have definite proof that this may have happened is to poll the voters, we know who they are because we have their signatures on file that they voted in 2020.
You can't do that after votes have been counted and certified. Those things need to be prevented rather than addressed after the fact. The lesson of 2020.
The majority are non-Republicans, yes.
I was waiting for someone to admit that! Yes, I agree.
So, now that we both agree that mail-in-voting favors democrats, perhaps you can tell us why?
Excellent!
I'm giving out an A+
Seriously? Don't you have a TV?
Trump = Mail in ballots are open to fraud, don't use them, come into vote.
Biden = Stay home, stay safe, use mail in ballots.
Previous to COVID, mail-in was favored by Republican voters, elderly voters.
Oh, I see. You believe that party voters followed their instructions.
I think that new or young voters are more likely to vote if somebody lets them vote from home. I think a lot of young voters are democrats. Just my opinion.
Never claimed ALL. But many YES.
Now? Yes, absolutely. Don't you feel the more voters the better?
Surveys show you are correct. Younger and higher educated lean Democratic. Older, rural voters lean Republican.
No. There are many people who either don't care or have no idea what the issues are. Do we want elections decided by people who don't have enough interest to go out and vote?
You don't believe in the Constitution?
So you want to take away their Constitutional right to vote?
If they chose to take the time to vote, yes absolutely!
Congratulations, you are promoting fascism.
"If they don't vote for me, it is because they don't care or have no idea what the issues are, therefore we should prevent them from voting"
The Constitution does not have any provision for dragging people to the polls or bringing ballots to peoples homes.
So you want to take away their Constitutional right to vote?
I think you have conflated people having a right to vote with people being pushed into casting a vote. Everyone also has a right to not cast a vote.
If they chose to take the time to vote, yes absolutely!
But they aren't! Democrats are putting ballots under their noses and saying just vote!
Congratulations, you are promoting fascism.
No you are!
Mail in ballots have been offered since the Civil War. Eliminating them would also disenfranchise all military stationed abroad.
Nonsense, you're the one arguing that people should not be able to vote unless they "care or have an idea what the issues are".
Going extreme on the strawman arguments now.
And they are taking the time to fill out those ballots and arrange for their return.
What do you want? An American ninja Warrior obstacle course????
LOL, projecting again.....
I say - the more that vote the better.
You say - only those you feel are informed enough (by your standards) should be able to vote.
I don't want to eliminate them for the military, or seniors either. Nice try.
Nonsense, you're the one arguing that people should not be able to vote unless they "care or have an idea what the issues are".
Actually, I am arguing that nobody should be forced/encouraged to vote if they have no desire/interest in voting. I gave a very good reason why.
Going extreme on the strawman arguments now.
Projection.
And they are taking the time to fill out those ballots and arrange for their return.
Why?
What do you want? An American ninja Warrior obstacle course????
I want elections decided by those who really care enough to go out and vote.
I say - the more that vote the better.
So, you keep saying. I just proved why that's a bad idea.
Ahh, only for Democrats that want to use mail in voting. Understood.
No that is actually NOT what you were arguing, that is what you want to deflect the argument to.
Because they want to vote...duh.
And if YOU FEEL they don't care enough you want to take a way their Constitutional right to vote. You've already said that several times.
You haven't proved anything, just made claims that are unconstitutional.
Show me where.
You haven't proved anything, just made claims that are unconstitutional.
You don't have a Constitutional right to be coddled. If you are 19 years old, you need to get off your ass and go vote.
Your quote...
You never seem to get tired of strawman arguments.
Why?
I will agree with a slightly edited version of your statement.
"If you are 19 years old, you need to vote."
You never need to vote. If you have to toss a coin on which way to go, you are only hurting democracy by casting that vote.
You really like to strawman.
For democracy to work properly, everyone NEEDS to vote, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE REQUIRED TO.
Absolutely WRONG!
People who have no interest in an election should refrain from voting. I'm sure you wouldn't want people just tossing a coin if Hitler were on the ballot. Then you'd be crying didn't they know who he was!
Yes you are.
And they generally do refrain from voting. However if they get a ballot, fill it out, and return it, then they have shown interest.
Would I want them to? Of course not.
Should they be able to? Yes, of course.
The whole concept of Democracy just goes right over your head, doesn't it?
That shows they needed prodding or they wouldn't have taken the time to vote. Hardly model citizens.
The whole concept of Democracy just goes right over your head, doesn't it?
Let's not make it personal.
Doesn't matter, they may have not passed your personal definition "interest", but as far as the Constitution is concerned, you're personal definition is worth less than what I flushed down the toilet this morning.
You are trying to promote restricting who can and cannot cast a vote based on how much interest YOU FEEL they have shown in the process. Yet you claim to support the Constitution.
You can't have it both ways.
Well I would be interested to know your opinion of why Trump got more votes than any sitting POTUS and how Biden got more than Mr. Obama or any POTUS elect. I'll give you my take. As stated elsewhere, they didn't have to get up off their respective lazy non-caring asses (Trump voters included) to vote this time around. Had there not been massive mail in voting "rules" changes, I really don't think that many people would have voted. If it's an inconvenience they just plain don't care enough. Partially the reason Trump won in 2016. Dems thought Mrs. Clinton had it in the bag and thus, figured they didn't need the hassle. Bit 'em right square in the buttocks.
Agreed
We are all entitled to a vote per "legal" person. Pandemic or otherwise, mail in should be a legitimate option, not just because we are 65 or older.
Butt, like all other things American, we have a pretty shitty rate of participation ranking 31st out of the 35 developed countries.
Bullshit.
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Voter suppression cannot be supported logically.
The gop needs to figure out how to get more votes because as long as they are actively trying to suppress the vote they are ultimately losing. It is a defensive strategy which is contrary to Democracy!
You cannot hold any moral high ground while actively suppressing the will of the people. None ! Cannot be done. Moral? The gop needs to change! What it has become is abhorrent to the voters...
You mean voter integrity. Why do democrats always want to open the door to questionable behavior?
You dismiss the prospect of actually appealing to voters and go right back to defending voter suppression. Georgia has a secure voting system. In the end the gop must appeal to the voters. As currently consisted the gop does not.
Are you claiming that voters won't vote if they have to go to the polls?
I am saying we should make it easier, not harder, to vote. If I can safely bank and do my taxes online there is no reason we cannot vote on our phones in 2021. Pleade do quit misrepresenting me and "what I mean". You clearly have no idea. So can all that crap!
How easy? Should we not prevent voter fraud?
If I can safely bank and do my taxes online there is no reason we cannot vote on our phones in 2021.
Safely? Are you aware of all the fraud that takes place in what are supposed to be secure transactions?
Sample:
Pleade do quit misrepresenting me and "what I mean".
Nobody is misrepresenting you. Feel free to answer my question if you can.
You clearly have no idea. So can all that crap!
I don't spread crap, but I do issue tickets for misconduct.
Why?
I never made that claim.
That's the broad brush that gets overused. I wish people would stop pushing that all the time.
People wanting to clean up voter registration rolls is not voter suppression. Requiring voter ID is not voter suppression. Having an insufficient number of voting locations set up is not voter suppression but it is an example of piss-poor planning.
Gerrymandering is voter suppression IMO.
That was a logical and thought-out response.
STOP THAT!
I'm just kidding. I couldn't help myself.
Can you define said 'normalcy' ... ? Cat is out of the bag Vic .. mail in voting was a great success....!
I do not have an issue with mail in ballots .. at least there is a hand marked paper ballot. I support voter ID laws, which in and of themselves are an issue when it comes to mail in, because of ballot privacy laws, so once the ballot is received and I presume the signature is verified, the signature and ballot are then separated .. ya da ya da and the questions begin as to whether it was ever actually verified and the ballot was from a registered voter .. rinse / repeat ...
Think the best that can be hoped for is that the states find a way to unify regarding voter ID laws / mail in ballot requirements [etc] for presidential elections ...?
Peace Vic .. I think the fun has only just begun...
HA! I even stayed on topic!
I want to say people who have enough interest in an election to get up and vote.
Cat is out of the bag Vic .. mail in voting was a great success....!
You mean it became incredible easy?
Think the best that can be hoped for is that the states find a way to unify regarding voter ID laws / mail in ballot requirements [etc] for presidential elections ...?
I think that process has begun with the autopsy now going on in Georgia.
Peace Vic
Peace be with you!
Yeah it was .. a wet dream for some [I am told] ............. so yeah how does one put that back in the bag?
When I originally requested a mail in ballot, I had to jump through hoops .. it was not a matter of you are registered to vote, so here is your ballot .. I am registered, but if I vote in person I need an ID .. Montana has same day registration .. but still you have to produce an ID and proof of residence - this time due to the pandemic a residence was not required .. can the homeless be prevented from voting ..? lot of catch 22s Vic .. that is why I say time for the states to come together and define what is required in order to vote in a presidential election .. only way to avoid this in the future ...!
This is on the states Vic .. 50 different procedures has assisted in putting 'us' where 'we' are..... or so I think : ) so did the 2016 election [basket of deplorables] and the refusal of so many people to accept Trump as president [elected in a free and fair election] assisted in putting us where we are .... Trump assisted / influenced the assault on the Capitol .. but the descent did not start there or with Trump administration .. his presidency amplified / emboldened .. [insert further descriptive words here] the divide .. the hate became strong .. shit got fuck'd up Vic .. and partisanship is destroying this nation ..!
Thank you for allowing me to vent.. : )
I am putting SoapBox back in her stall...!
Is your 'SoapBox' named Synonym Cinnamon the Houyhnhnm?
You can't, but you can find ways to regulate it better than the chaos we witnessed in 2020.
that is why I say time for the states to come together and define what is required in order to vote in a presidential election .. only way to avoid this in the future ...!
This is the time to do it. Let's not allow them do it again. They are highly organized on the matter of loosening the rules on voting.
and partisanship is destroying this nation ..!
Shelby Foote was once asked if he thought the Civil War could have been avoided if Stephen Douglas had won the 1860 election. He said no matter what happened that terrible war was destined to happen and sadly was the only way to end what divided us. That may be where we are today.
I am putting SoapBox back in her stall...!
LOL!
Def scary if true .. 'cept this time it will be a war of words / legislation .. the pen and the phone. Does not mean it will be any less bloody though..
: ) SoapBox is my high horse...
... free range weed?
Wild oats ..
Right on!