Top Immunologist Regrets Voting for Joe Biden After Vaccine Mandate
By: Ewan Palmer (MSN)
Makes a LOT of sense.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
An immunologist has said he regrets voting for Joe Biden because of the president's COVID-19 vaccine mandate.
© Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images Joe Biden speaks about combating the coronavirus pandemic in the State Dining Room of the White House on September 9, 2021 in Washington, D.C.
Dr. Hooman Noorchashm, a former assistant professor of surgery at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, has argued that Americans who already have antibodies from an infection should not be told to get inoculated.
Noorchashm said any move to mandate Americans who had recovered from the virus to get vaccinated was, "unscientific, unethical and illegal!"
And he accused Biden of giving one of the most "destructive and divisive speeches" ever given by a president in announcing plans to make all private businesses with 100 or more employees to require staff to have a COVID vaccine or get tested regularly.
Biden has also announced that all healthcare workers and federal contractors must get vaccinated, meaning the vaccine rules could apply to more than 100 million people.
In a series of tweets, Noorchashm condemned Biden and his administration and stated that he voted for him as "a McCain republican."
Noorchashm added on September 10: "It was an error and I now regret it.
"Last night's chest beating press conference by @POTUS was one of the most destructive and divisive speeches ever given by a US president who claims 2 B a well-reasoned uniter, acting on science.
I voted for Biden....As a McCain republican.
It was an error and I now regret it.
Last night's chest beating press conference by @POTUS
was one of the most destructive and divisive speeches ever given by a US president who claims 2 B a well-reasoned uniter, acting on science.
— Hooman Noorchashm MD, PhD (@noorchashm) September 10, 2021
"LET ME BE CLEAR @POTUS: To mandate vaccination of any COVID-recovered American against his/her will is unscientific, unethical and illegal! @WhiteHouse U have overstepped and are operating in dangerous territory when it comes to already immune Americans. Cease and desist!"
He added: "Natural Immunity is AT LEAST AS GOOD as 'full vaccination'! No justification for @POTUS not allowing automatic exemption for the COVID-recovered!"
Noorchashm has recently been cited in a lawsuit by a Michigan State University employee who is suing her employer over its vaccine mandate.
Jeanna Norris, an administrative associate, also argues those who have COVID-19 antibodies to be exempt from the vaccine mandate.
"I consulted with Dr. Hooman Noorchashm on August 21, 2021 and August 26, 2021 about receiving a vaccine in light of my natural immunity. Dr. Noorchashm advised me that immunization was medically unnecessary," Norris said in a declaration.
"The University is forcing me to choose between performing my professional duties to the best of my ability and protecting my personal health," the lawsuit states.
"The University is also forcing me to choose between protecting my constitutional right to bodily autonomy, privacy and protection and keeping my job, which is the lifeblood of my family's livelihood."
There have been a number of studies which have suggested people who have had a natural infection will produce antibodies which will protect them from COVID-19, although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention state that the best way to protect you and others is by getting the vaccine.
Announcing the vaccine mandate on Friday, Biden said: "This is not about freedom or personal choice. It's about protecting yourself and those around you — the people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love," Biden said.
"My job as President is to protect all Americans."
The president also described his frustration at the 80 million eligible people who have still not got the vaccination, as well as the "distinct minority of elected officials" who are "keeping us from turning the corner" in the pandemic.
"These pandemic politics, as I refer to, are making people sick, causing unvaccinated people to die," Biden said.
"We cannot allow these actions to stand in the way of protecting the large majority of Americans who have done their part and want to get back to life as normal."
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Man knows of what he speaks.
What makes you think that? Nowhere is he listed as a "Top Immunologist", except this article. In fact he is NOT an immunologist at all:
Dr. Hooman Noorchashm is a thoracic surgeon in Yardley, Pennsylvania. He received his medical degree from Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania and has been in practice between 11-20 years.
And you don't believe in natural immunity either? Seems a bit strange
Where you come up with the shit about what I believe in, is obviously in a world where the sky is yellow and the grass cyan.
Ok, we'll make it easy on you, do you believe that Natural Immunity should be recognized in lue of the vaccine?
Jim,
Natural immunity does exist, but it is specific to the variant and it does diminish, just as the vaccine's effect does (depending on the individuals' immune response to both). Without knowing which variant you had, you could get covid all over again.
That's the subject of the article and all you and others are doing is hammering on the fucking headline FFS. It makes some sense that it should NOT necessarily be a mandate for those who may have already suffered.
Don't like it, don't read. Easy.
There is also no guarantee that the vaccines we have will be effective on all variants. So in theory, if I had alpha, Delta could still get me..........possibly.
don't believe in natural immunity either? Seems a bit strange
Data from Israel suggests natural immunity is superior to vaccinations.
Our current vaccine works on known variants. If we stew up a new one, you could be right. The point of the mandate is not to stew up a new one.
Sean,
Several other studies show that "Hybrid immunity" is the best.
That is the first time I've heard anyone give a valid explanation of why those who have had covid should get vaccinated.
Maybe if the CDC could get that message accross, we'd have less confusion.
I agree that the CDC messaging has been very poor and so confusion still exists.
I currently have active antibodies in my system. I'm not about to add an artificial substance to that.
So what? You can get the variant Covid's even with the vaccine. The vaccine is not some magical cure all that prevents someone from getting Covid.
The vaccine will not even prevent the transmission of Covid 19.
It is not like they are creating a vaccine for each of the variants out there. These vaccines are similar to the flu shot; with just as much of a guarantee of working.
The majority of those who have refused to be vaccinated have done so for "political" reasons. Biden and Fauci want them to get it, so for that reason they dont want to get it. Its that simple for the majority of them.
A substance to stimulate the creation of antibodies for Covid 19. I already have natural antibodies in my system. I have my blood tested for them periodically.
The CDC messaging is bad, and it is made worse because we have knuckleheads running around firing off their mouths and empty minds! This is toxic politics about a pandemic. Question: When will we accuse properly the right-wing politicians for propagandizing SARS-COV-2?
Forgive my bluntness. But enough of this "candy-ass" treatment of these freaks who are using sickness and death as fodder for campaigning! See the problem and fix the problem: End of story!
Finally, I heard the CDC say the shot will extend the time-line of natural immunity (as best it can) and it is a useful thing. They have said it.
The problem is: The right-wing talk jocks and news anchors are undermining and diluting the CDC with 'noise' every day. All day.
The number of breakthrough infections and death are a tiny number compared to the number of people who are not getting covid. And yes, the vaccinated can pass the infection to the unvaccinated. So you do realize that you are making a case for vaccination.
CB,
This should have never been political, but rather a national health issue, like in most European countries. And I agree that it is time to take the bull by the horns and treat covid much like we treated smallpox. End of story.
But I think that a lot of this could have been avoided if the CDC did better messaging.
And the vaccinated can also pass it on to other vaccinated individuals. It does NOT come back in asymptomatic form only for those who are vaccinated.
What message from the CDC would have convinced die hard Trump supporters?
None.
You are talking about a very, very small number of people.
Same one that would have convinced the Democrat die hard anti vax crowd.
Unless you or yours are one of them. I think the story may change a bit. And per the link up above, I really don't consider 14,000 plus that small.
Ahhh, so now you are moving the goalposts. Your original statement was that I didn't believe in natural immunity. That's a bit dishonest of you, isn't it?
No, the subject of the articles is the beliefs of the "top immunologist".
who isn't even an immunologist
Jim,
14,000 compared to the 650,000 who have died is very small. 14,000 compared to the 380 million doses given and the 179 million fully vaccinated is minute. Of course, it isn't to those who lost loved ones, but in the scheme of things, it is.
Looking for any reason not to take the vaccine is the bigger issue here and a lot of it, as implied by this article is political.
I gave Trump credit for the investment into "Warp Speed". But now that we have the vaccine, we should all get behind it, instead of using it as political fodder.
And I do not disagree with you. It's just at this point I don't see the need for "shot or walk" if someone is immune that's all and the only reason I posted this article.
Yes, and then we would have the CDC as a political arm contending with persuasion (hearts and minds) versus just the facts, science, and figures. Careful what we wish for I say). Remember, and I not being partisan here forget that, President Trump ordered those daily briefings as a testimony of his "intellect" and political savvy. That drew our attention to the CDC directly (and not just obliquely). We were not accustomed to hearing from the CDC directly. More to the point, it became clear that the CDC was being (mis)used as a political arm, because the instance Trump felt he had lost the narrative at a specific briefing, he dropped all sense of urgency for the briefings and they "petered out."
Moreover, had scientists and medical administrators and professionals wanted to be "message people" they would have invested time in communications and public relations trainings.
Proving immunity will be a problem in its own right. We would have to set up immunity centers. And as I pointed out, the best coverage is what you have already, which is Hybrid immunity.
I realize that nothing is going to be a perfect solution, but at this point, we need to get to the other side of this disease.
And how does his area of expertise stack up against/for reporting on epidemiology? Inquiring minds want to know!
What is an immunity center?
Perrie wrote:"Without knowing which variant you had, you could get covid all over again."
Can you support that with scientific evidence?
Right now, nothing. But in order to check to see if people have antibodies, you would need to have something like an immunity center to prove you have them. This would be a further complication.
Almost sounds like a concentration camp
Of course, I can.
Did you see 1.1.16? Pat gets checked regularly somehow.
I have no idea of where she is getting tested. That is something for her to answer. As for having antibodies, I am also not sure if they are alpha or delta or both, and I am not sure if she knows that either.
Pat, what kind of antibodies do you have? Alpha or delta? And are you vaccine opposed or just this vaccine?
Not sure which. I had covid in the middle of December 2020. I donate blood to Red Cross and they tested for antibodies up until the end of June. I tested positive for covid antibodies the first week of April and again at the end of June. I will be tested again at the end of the month at either CVS or the University of Irvine. Those tests will show the levels.
I'm not opposed to vaccines but I'm not going to get a vaccine when I have antibodies already. I'm also a bit skeptical of the roll out of this one.
Pat, you do realize that if you don't have the antibodies for Delta that you can get it, right? Also, the antibodies you do have do wear out after about a year.
As for the role out of this vaccine, it was already developed for SARS 1. They just tweaked it for SARS 2 (that is what we call covid 19). My daughter was in the Mt Siani Med labs working on it during the late testing and she said it went through vigorous testing.
Taking, or not taking a vaccine is definitely your choice, but I'm sure you would agree that all choices should be made with full knowledge. So I will offer up a couple articles for you, just in case you were not aware of some of these facts.
I also understand your skepticism about the rollout, especially the way it was started. However with over 200 million dosages already administered, and no serious side effects other than allergies, it might be considered as fully tested by now.
Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections
New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection
WTF are you talking about my original was: 1.1.6 "do you believe that Natural Immunity should be recognized in lue of the vaccine?"
Didn't move any goalposts, still waiting for an answer and now an apology.
I've heard way too much conflicting information. Some studies say the natural antibodies last for 20 years.
The data and information changes weekly if not daily. As far as Delta goes science has shown historically that mutations are increasingly weaker than the original virus.
At this point I'm trusting my own judgement.
The knowledge is constantly changing.
I appreciate the information.
Show me where I said that.
What knowledge is constantly changing?
C'mon, the knowledge for covid. It changes constantly .
Seems really risky trusting your judgment against something so deadly as co-vid19
I had covid 19.
I've heard that and the opposite.
You may want to talk to your doctor
My doctor doesn't know anymore about covid than you or I do.
I just try to process the available information.
Too funny. In January he published an open letter to the FDA and Pfizer.
So he is in essence now opposed to a mandate, not the vaccine. OK.
He thinks immunity is better than vaccines. OK
I'm not against that, I just don't want to go through the illness like you did. OK?
I wouldn't trust this fellow, JJ
He's been on Tucker a couple of times because he claims to be mad at Biden,
but he publishes on Medium.com two or three times a month and follows Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders...
So he prefers that Trump were still in there. Now we know he's an idiot.
He's also been a Fox contributor on the Tucker Carlson show.
Graduating in the bottom 10% of your class.
Now there is a real idiot.
I suggest you naysayers head on over to Newsweek and complain about Ewan Palmer as well as the editor in chief for their embellishment of the man and the story if that is what you think.
You know they won't. Doing so might expose them to a differing opinion that would destroy their whole world and their misconception of how things work. It's much easier for them to stay here on NT and throw their little fits like they normally do.
Even if you want to make the argument that the vaccine is medically unnecessary in some small number of people, it’s also medically harmless compared to Covid.
However, the argument that it’s unnecessary is false. Antibodies decline in everybody, including those who already had the virus. So vaccines are still useful in all people.
Useful yes. I got my shots after having it.........bad. Doctor said I wouldn't need to actually get the vaccine for many months but what could it hurt so I did.
This guy is saying basically the same thing but is against the mandate to do it. I read this morning that hospitals in New York are facing nurse shortages as nurses are opting to leave rather than get the vaccine. Doesn't make sense to me why they would make that decision but it's happening all over the country.
And they are suing to boot.
It's only happening in one hospital. btw, I can't read the Bloomberg story, so you can read it here:
and here:
Actually, it's good that they quit. They shouldn't be around our most vulnerable unvaccinated.
You don't know that either. Not for everyone anyway.
All things remaining equal some folks will contract it and some won't and science can't explain that completely.
Not yet.
I’m not sure what you mean by all of that.
Scientists know very well how the virus spreads now. If a person is exposed to it, they may become infected. If infected, they may or may not develop symptoms. If they develop symptoms, they may be mild or severe. Some may go to the hospital. Some may die.
Much of that has to do with the viral load received - i.e. exactly how many individual viruses made it into the body initially. Some of it will also have something to do with the unique immune response of each individual.
As far I have seen, the vaccine improves everyone’s chances of a positive outcome quite significantly. So I don’t see what the big mystery is or why anyone thinks they should not get a shot.
Can't explain it any better. Some folks are clearly more genetically/physiologically predisposed to contracting Covid-19 than others. Science can't fully explain the dynamics at work there. Just like science hasn't come up with a cure for the common cold.
Science doesn't have all the answers, no matter how hard some scientists try to convince you that they do.
That "small" number is over 41 million people.
According to this study:
New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection
People who previously had Covid but have not been vaccinated are somewhat protected, but are still more than twice as likely to become infected again as someone who has had the vaccine. The vaccine also improves your chances of staying out of the hospital if you do get infected.
The problem with immunity - be it self-made or from a vaccine - is that it diminishes over time. That’s why we all need to be getting shots.
What our resident "malcontents" are doing is arguing from a single data point. Wisdom dictates that we look at as much data as we can consume and triangulate (make an informed decision) from the totality of the sharing. Of course, some want to right in snap judgement rather than right in their living through Sars-Cov-2.
Regardless, 41 million people is not a "small number". We're talking about a huge section of the American public here.
But if we're going to talk numbers, according to this study:
Re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 in Patients Undergoing Serial Laboratory Testing,
The reinfection rate is only about 0.7% anyway, and more prevalent among smokers and asthma patients. So if you've had Covid, there is a 99.3% chance you're not going to get it again, and vaccination may improve those odds to 99.6%.
For me personally, I'd get jabbed and quit smoking (which would be easy, because I don't actually smoke). In any case, we're not talking about moving the needle very far.
I think the vaccines have been available for everyone (16 and older ) for at least a couple months now. Everyone. So the only reason everyone is not vaccinated is refusal.
We also know that almost everyone who is currently dying from covid are people who are not vaccinated.
So ALL of the covid deaths over the past few months, and ALL of them going forward (with few exceptions) will be occurring because people did not get vaccinated. This is going to amount to tens of thousands of people. Tens of thousands of people will have died because of anti vaccination and anti mask individuals.
How is this at all tolerable?
You don't know that! How many of the unvaccinated have had Covid?
I have a brother who had covid in 2020 and got vaccinated in 2021. There is nothing preventing people who have had covid from getting vaccinated, and I believe it is recommended.
True...but is it necessary?
How is it okay that we have become the world's petri dish? All other countries have to do is watch us behave stupidly and fall down repeatedly in our efforts to have more freedom than is good for us to know how to do better under the stress of Sars-Cov-2!
Hey, you can’t blame all of those who are resisting getting the vaccine in light of all those tens of thousands of people that have been killed by the vaccine. Oh wait - it’s killing virtually nobody? It’s not even hurting anybody? Virtually all covid deaths are unvaccinated? All serious hospitalizations are unvaccinated? It costs nobody anything?? Yeah, there is no explanation other than humans have the potential to be incredibly stupid.
I’ve been dealing with this with my adult daughter in Florida. There simply is no changing her mind. Although she has had a mild case of covid and therefore has some antibody protection, she still is convinced that the biggest, most impossible conspiracy is taking place, and that there are vaccine deaths that just aren’t being reported. This is the most evil aspect of the internet. Smart people are being convinced to act incredibly stupid.
You might want to remind her that last week in Florida we had 2448 covid deaths, 4 of which were under 16.
My BIL lives about a mile from us and his daughter and grandson are not getting vaccinated and told him they were coming to visit him from VA. His is exact words were, ''are you vaccinated, if not don't waste your time showing up at my house since I have no interest in killing myself or seeing stupid people, related or not''..
You might want to remind her that last week in Florida we had 2448 covid deaths, 4 of which were under 16.
She would probably say that’s just the media wants you to know, and that it’s the vaccine that’s really killing people. I think that she will end up getting vaccinated, but only because of it being mandated. She has a high paying job and just got promoted in a company that is growing so fast they can’t keep up with it. If she flushes that down the toilet over a vaccine I may never speak to her again.
The numbers aren't adding up. Joe Biden claims his mandate will cover 100 million Americans. Gee that's swell but the CDC numbers don't support that claim.
According to the CDC data, 62 million adults age 18 and older are unvaccinated. 4 million of the unvaccinated are age 65 and older. So, Biden's mandate for employer required vaccination would, at most, cover 58 million people. And over one third of the labor force is not included in the mandate. That's without taking into consideration natural immunity.
People ARE being vaccinated. 76 pct of adults age 18 and older HAVE BEEN vaccinated. But the science literate have suddenly stopped following the data and are now touting anecdotal information. Since results aren't matching predictions, we're now back to arguments over masks and wild assed unproven treatments. We were told the vaccines work, the vaccines provide the ultimate protection. And now Biden wants us to believe mandated vaccination is necessary to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated? WTF?
We were told the pandemic would recede as more people were vaccinated. Instead we're back to where we were when Biden was inaugurated. Things aren't adding up. Biden's overinflated WAGS don't match the data or the science. What the hell is going on?
Hooman Noorchashm, MD, PhD. Physician-scientist Dr. Hooman Noorchashm is an advocate for patient safety, ethics and women's health. He specializes in cardiothoracic surgery and has taught and practiced medicine for nearly two decades
So, not an immunologist at all. A surgeon.
I wonder if Noorchashm is related to the other ''top immunologist'', Dr. Scott Atlas who seems to have disappeared from public view.