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Is Easter a Pagan Holiday?

  
Via:  XXJefferson51  •  2 years ago  •  144 comments

By:   ChristianHeadlines. com

Is Easter a Pagan Holiday?
During the Holy Week fast preceding Easter, Christians were prohibited from eating eggs. The chickens kept laying, however. Eggs laid during Holy Week were considered Holy Eggs. The practice of decorating them began in the thirteenth century, many centuries after Europe turned from paganism. The egg was seen as a symbol of the resurrection, with Christ bursting from the tomb in the same way the chick broke free from the egg.

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We the People

The pagans and today’s secularists who use them to argue against one form of theism got it exactly backwards.  On virtually every issue.  Particularly so with Easter.  The answer to the question in the headline is a clear and resounding no.  


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



John Stonestreet| BreakPoint | Wednesday, April 13, 2022

Is Easter a Pagan Holiday?


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Most Christians consider Easter to be a sacred and joyous celebration of Christ's resurrection. But what about the claim that Easter and its accompanying traditions originated from a pagan spring celebration?

In his treatise On the Reckoning of Time, eighth-century English monk the Venerable Bede proposed that the word Easter comes from the name of a pagan goddess: "Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated 'Paschal month', and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month." Modern pagans latched onto this idea, and further associated Eostre, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility, with Ostara, a Germanic goddess of spring.

There are multiple problems with this theory, however, the Venerable Bede notwithstanding. For centuries, the Church fought to turn people from paganism. Therefore, it is unlikely that one of the most important Christian holidays would be named after a pagan goddess. More importantly, there is no evidence, aside from Bede, of a goddess named Eostre, nor is there evidence for a Germanic goddess named Ostara. The name Easter is only used in English, and its cognate Ostern in German. Everywhere else, even in Germanic languages such as Dutch, Norwegian, or Swedish, the word is derived from Pascha or Passover. And, since Resurrection Day was celebrated for hundreds of years before the Anglo-Saxons or Germans were converted, it is unconvincing that its name points to a pagan origin of the holiday. More likely, Bede was mistaken, either following a folk etymology or simply guessing.

In fact, where the day's name does originate is a bit more complicated. New converts, after receiving intensive instruction, were baptized on Easter. Easter Sunday was known as Dominica in albis, or "the Sunday in white," after the white robes worn by the catechumens. It may be that albis was misunderstood to be the plural of alba, or dawn, which was then translated into Old High German as eostarum. The words Easter and Ostern most likely are derived from that.

Another common argument is that Easter traditions such as rabbits and decorating eggs were pagan fertility symbols. Some modern pagans even claim, without evidence, that the worship of Ostara involved these very things. However, the connection of these items to Easter is much less elaborate and far more recent than any mythical pagan past.

During the Holy Week fast preceding Easter, Christians were prohibited from eating eggs. The chickens kept laying, however. Eggs laid during Holy Week were considered Holy Eggs. The practice of decorating them began in the thirteenth century, many centuries after Europe turned from paganism. The egg was seen as a symbol of the resurrection, with Christ bursting from the tomb in the same way the chick broke free from the egg.

As for rabbits, the timing of their association with Easter also eliminates the possibility that they are a holdover from pagan ideas. During the Middle Ages, rabbits were seen as innocent, good, and harmless, and as such were sometimes used as a symbol of Christ. However, they were not associated with Easter until the 17th century.

Another version of the "Easter has roots in paganism" idea associates the celebration of the resurrection with the ancient Sumerian myth of Tammuz and Ishtar. This myth, which is an explanation of the annual cycle of death in winter, tells of Tammuz and Ishtar spending half a year in the underworld, before a new birth when they are released for six months each spring. The myth bears little resemblance to resurrection story, especially the three days Jesus spent in the tomb and his once-and-for-all resurrection from the dead.

Even so, this pagan story and others like it may, in fact, be connected to Christianity, just not in the way we normally think. In fact, we may have it the wrong way around. As C. S. Lewis described in Mere Christianity:

And what did God do? …. He sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again and, by his death, has somehow given new life to men.

Lewis believed that these myths were hints that God gave to the pagan world of the person and work of Christ. In other words, the argument that myths are the source of the story of the Resurrection has it exactly backwards. The Resurrection actually happened, and is the Reality to which these myths have always pointed.

And because the Resurrection actually happened, it is certainly worthy of celebration… with Hallelujahs, raised glasses, and lots of joy.

Publication date: April 13, 2022

Photo courtesy: ©iStock/Getty Images Plus/Svetlana Cherruty

BreakPointis a program of the Colson Center for Christian Worldview. BreakPoint commentaries offer incisive content people can't find anywhere else; content that cuts through the fog of relativism and the news cycle with truth and compassion. Founded by Chuck Colson (1931 - 2012) in 1991 as a daily radio broadcast, BreakPoint provides a Christian perspective on today's news and trends. Today, you can get it in written and a variety of audio formats: on the web, the radio, or your favorite podcast app on the go.

John Stonestreetis President of the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, and radio host of BreakPoint, a daily national radio program providing thought-provoking commentaries on current events and life issues from a biblical worldview. John holds degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (IL) and Bryan College (TN), and is the co-author of Making Sense of Your World: A Biblical Worldview.

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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1  seeder  XXJefferson51    2 years ago

Even so this pagan story and others like it may in fact be connected to Christianity just not in the way we normally think In fact we may have it the wrong way around  As C. S. Lewis described:

And what did God do? He sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again and, by his death has somehow given new life to men

Lewis believed that these myths were hints that God gave to the pagan world of the person and work of Christ. In other words the argument that myths are the source of the story of the Resurrection has it exactly backwards The Resurrection actually happened and is the Reality to which these myths have always pointed

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    2 years ago
02-death-beat-dt-1080-390x220.jpg
A.F. BrancoApril 12, 2022
0

He Has Risen

Jesus was crucified on the cross and on the third day he rose to defeat death. Cartoon by @AFBranco

Read More »
 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.2  afrayedknot  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1    2 years ago

“And what did God do? “

Perchance ask your Ukrainian neighbors, or the Jews put on trains, or the Africans put in chains, or the Native Americans displaced, or all the other races disgraced…all in the name of your god. 

Happy Easter, just avoid any meaningful examination.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2    2 years ago

85318815.jpg

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2    2 years ago

384

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.2    2 years ago

Easter and any possible pagan links to it is the topic here.  The answer is no.  No pagan link to Easter.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2    2 years ago

Free Will is a b!tch.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.2.5  afrayedknot  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.1    2 years ago

“debunk”

Continue on with your narrative.

We shall continue to agree to disagree, and you are allowed to believe as you choose…but never, ever conflate those beliefs as necessary public policy. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.2.6  Snuffy  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2    2 years ago
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.” (Job 38:4 NIV) 

 I went to the Bible, looked it up, and the verse seemed more a rebuke than an attempt to comfort. Job had asked God why he did what he did, and it sounded to me like God had slapped him down by asking, “Who are you to question me?”

It always left me unsatisfied.

I went back to the book of Job, reread verse 38:4 and remembered what Father Mulcahy had said. What God said wasn’t a rebuke. Instead, what he was saying is you’re asking the wrong question. Loss has nothing to do with the equation. What it has to do with is how we react to it.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.2.7  afrayedknot  replied to  Snuffy @1.2.6    2 years ago

“What it has to do with is how we react to it.”

The saddest condemnation of all. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.2.8  Snuffy  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2.7    2 years ago

Why do you say it's the saddest?  Is it because your belief system that there is no God would mean that this life is all there is and the loss in this life is tragic because that's all there is?  Or is it something else to you?  Please expand..

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2.7    2 years ago

I’m so sorry that you feel sad.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.10  bbl-1  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.2    2 years ago

"God is a concept."  J. Lennon.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  bbl-1 @1.2.10    2 years ago

I don’t measure my pain by that concept.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Junior Quiet
1.2.12  afrayedknot  replied to  Snuffy @1.2.8    2 years ago

“Please expand..”

Referencing your previous quote…‘what it has to do with is how we react…’

In this day and age, when we live in largesse and still choose to spend our time moaning about whatever…knowing yet ignoring the misfortunes so many face…that is the hypocrisy that drives so many away.

The reaction…not action, only speaking to a faction. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.13  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.4    2 years ago

No.  It means his creations listen and love and obey because they love him, not because we are automatons who must obey in some rote form.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.14  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2.12    2 years ago

Many in the church do not ignore. They act out of love and compassion to alleviate the human suffering around us.  That the militantly secular deny or belittle such efforts is not on us.  

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.2.15  bbl-1  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.11    2 years ago

Have pain?  Then stay away from religion.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  bbl-1 @1.2.15    2 years ago

Then stay away from religion.

I have.  You picked the song and I copied more of the lyrics:

God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I'll say it again
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.17  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  bbl-1 @1.2.10    2 years ago

"God is a concept."  J. Lennon.

“God is a construct.”  H. Lujah

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.18  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.17    2 years ago

I think it's likely that God exists, because there is something rather than nothing. 

But I also think it is very possible that no one understands the nature or purposes of God, and very possibly we never will. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.17    2 years ago

You’re very wise, H Lujah.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.20  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.18    2 years ago

there is something rather than nothing

Is god part of the something?  Does god believe in a god too then?  Where does the buck stop?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.20    2 years ago

Deep, HAL, deep.  I’ll bet that you were a hit in those late night Dorm discussions.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.22  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.21    2 years ago

That was deep?  Seemed like a pretty obvious question to me.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.20    2 years ago

If God exists there is only one God, defined as THE Supreme Being. If there were a half dozen or a half million "gods" none of them would be THE Supreme Being, would they? 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.24  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.22    2 years ago

It’s was three, Hal.  And it doesn’t get any deeper than, “Does god believe in a god too then?”  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.25  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  bbl-1 @1.2.15    2 years ago

That’s exactly wrong.  Religion, Christianity in particular is the answer to and the way to cope with the pain that is in this sin filled rebel world.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.26  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.18    2 years ago

If God (typically defined with the grandest possible attributes) can just exist then anything (especially if less grand than God) could just exist.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.27  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.23    2 years ago

You don’t think God ever wonders how he got there?  Or does he have vivid memories of himself making himself from scratch?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.28  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.27    2 years ago

Does the Universe remember it’s Big Bang?  Does it remember itself before the Bang?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.29  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.28    2 years ago

The universe and the Big Bang are not sentient.  That’s like asking if your spoon remembers what kind of soup you had for dinner.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.31  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.29    2 years ago

Hal knows what god wonders and what the universe doesn’t.  Hal is all knowing.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.32  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.29    2 years ago

85318825.jpg

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.33  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.29    2 years ago

85318828.jpg

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.34  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Texan1211 @1.2.30    2 years ago

see 1.2.1

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.35  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.31    2 years ago

I see none of you has an answer, or a guess, or even a willingness to consider the most basic question about the supposedly most powerful, omnipotent, omnipresent, infallible, eternal creator that hasn’t presented a single sign throughout the entire history of mankind that it actually exists.  Even when people like me openly mock it daily for being the most feckless and worthless brain fart ever created by man, it does nothing.  You’d think I’d be hit by a lightning bolt or something by now, but instead my life is amazing and only gets better every day.  Meanwhile, devoutly religious types and their children die by all manner of accidents, or random violence, or health ailments.  I am apparently God’s favorite atheist.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.36  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.33    2 years ago

384

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.37  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.35    2 years ago
I am apparently God’s favorite atheist.

In 2020, I was diagnosed with Stage 4, appendiceal cancer.  I lost my appendix, spleen, gall bladder, 40% of my small intestine and a piece of my large intestine.  Surgical complication caused follow-up chest surgery.  I had to have three surgeries and spent a total of 3 months in the hospital, because of COVID, I was allowed one visit with my wife.  Repeated chemotherapy has left me with lingering neuropathy in my hands and feet.  I am apparently one of god's least favorite agnostics.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.38  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.37    2 years ago

Maybe he doesn’t like fence sitters?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
1.2.39  JBB  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.38    2 years ago

Fence Sitting is a painful compromise...

original

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.40  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.38    2 years ago

Apparently not.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.41  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @1.2.39    2 years ago

Sometimes.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
1.2.42  Snuffy  replied to  afrayedknot @1.2.12    2 years ago

Thank you for your explanation.  However I think it's too narrow a view.

If your belief is there is no God and thereby there is no soul then the early ending of any life is a tragedy.  And there are people in the world who ignore what is going on around them, there are those who attempt to gain something by moaning and bitching about the misfortune of others perhaps to gain financially or politically or just to expand their own feelings of self-worth over the worth of those who suffer, and there are those who do attempt to help or change the misfortunes.  That to me is granted by the free will that everybody enjoys. We are all allowed to make our own choices in this world.  While I would wish that such suffering didn't happen and that when misfortune occurred that all people would step up to ease the suffering of those afflicted, I accept and understand because of free will that not everybody will look on the world as I do and not everybody will bother to step up to help. 

No one alive truly knows what the afterlife will bring.  Perhaps there is a Silver City on the hill where we all go when we die, perhaps there is nothing.  We won't know until we're there. But it costs me nothing to have faith that there is life after death and that God exists and does have a plan. I won't understand the fullness of His plan because I am not yet at a level where I am able to but I believe that when I die I will then have all the answers that plague me now but I also acknowledge that if there is nothing after death then the questions are meaningless.  But faith gives me the help to accept the suffering that others are going thru that I cannot change, because I believe that the suffering while horrendous on earth is only a suffering to this meat sack of our bodies and it is the soul that is eternal. If I, as an individual, am limited in what I can do to change the suffering of others in the world it does not mean that I am blind or indifferent to, but how I react with the loss is what is important to me.  I change what I can change and accept that for that which I cannot change, God will. But to surrender to anger and hatred because I cannot change the suffering turns me away from a belief in God.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.43  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.37    2 years ago

My dad went through something like what you describe.  Pseudo mixoma parotonea (sp) from 1995-2007.  Hopefully they know more about it now and you can fight this.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.44  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.2.38    2 years ago

That’s not very nice thing to say.  

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
1.2.45  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.44    2 years ago

Tell god.  Maybe he’ll smite me if you pray hard enough.  Or maybe you’ll get a horrible disease while he looks the other way.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
1.2.46  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.43    2 years ago

I’m good now, eating normally and getting stronger ever week,  My treatment ended a year ago, I get a CT Scan every three months, so far, no signs of new cancer, I’m cancer free.  I had a great medical team and strong family support,

Appendix cancer is rare and usually not caught in time.  I was very fortunate.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.47  Vic Eldred  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.2.1    2 years ago

I think you found the perfect comeback!

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.48  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.46    2 years ago

I’m glad for you that it was caught in time and that you were able to recover from it.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.49  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.47    2 years ago

It’s a favorite of mine.  It reminds me of some people in this world.  I have a great collection of similar memes for our atheist friends.  I’m glad that you liked it. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
1.2.50  charger 383  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.2.46    2 years ago

Hope you continue to improve and feel better

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2  seeder  XXJefferson51    2 years ago

stg041322dAPR-1-1-390x220.jpg

Tom StiglichApril 13, 2022
0

He Gave Everything For You

See more Stiglich (@TStig822) toons HERE.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2    2 years ago

He’s very caucasian.  He must have stood out like a sore thumb.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.1.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago

Every culture has renditions of Him as one of their own. Fitting enough.  That He was a Jew and looked like the Jews of His time there did is of no real doubt. The fact is that nothing surrounding this past week and coming weekend is of a pagan nature except the Roman method of execution.  That was pagan indeed.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago

He must have stood out like a sore thumb.

Of what race were the other folks of Nazareth of?  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.3  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.2    2 years ago

The ancient Canaanites shared their DNA with both modern day Jews and Arabs...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.3    2 years ago

And which race does that equate to?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.5  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.4    2 years ago

You can look it up. They were called Semites or Semitic Tribes though those terms are obsolete. You must drill down pretty far into racist theory to find tribes as individual races...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.5    2 years ago

Oh, thanks.  So perhaps Jesus didn’t stand out like a sore thumb.like Hal A. Lujah speculated.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.7  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.6    2 years ago

No, Jesus would not have stood out being an ancient Canaanite in ancient Canaan, unless he was a blond white guy stolen by the ancient Canaanites from parents in Northern Europe.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.7    2 years ago

Sounds like the key for you is ancient,

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.9  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  XXJefferson51 @2.1.1    2 years ago

Chesus.

384

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.6    2 years ago

For centuries, the most common image of Jesus Christ, at least in Western cultures, has been that of a bearded, fair-skinned man with long, wavy, light brown or blond hair and (often) blue eyes. But the Bible doesn’t describe Jesus physically, and all the evidence we do have indicates he probably looked very different from how he has long been portrayed.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.11  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.8    2 years ago

It has nothing to do with me. You are asking dumb questions about pickaune details plainly to derail any conversations. Questions you know the answers to or could easily Google yourself. Obviously this is a game to you. Explaining archaic race theory is a gotcha minefield and it is obvious to everyone who is laying the mines...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.10    2 years ago

Oh my and in Ethiopia I saw pictures of a Black Christ and in the Philippines an Asian Christ.  Oh my, how did these artists a thousand years later get it wrong?  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.11    2 years ago

Huh?  I responded to your comments.  I’m agnostic and am amused by racial arguments about Christ.  No one seems to want to follow the science, but rather politics or ideology.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.14  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.12    2 years ago

Then what color would American Jesus be?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.14    2 years ago

Jesus wasn’t an American.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.9    2 years ago

Nice pecs.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.17  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.13    2 years ago

I don't have time for that kind of trollishness.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1.10    2 years ago

Were have you seen Blue-eyed portraits?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.19  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.15    2 years ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.17    2 years ago

What kind?  I entered this thread after a sarcastic comment about Jesus being Caucasus.  Since then, no one has identified an alternative race.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
2.1.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.19    2 years ago

Racial minefields? Stupidass, is that a word?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.22  JBB  impassed  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.20    2 years ago
✋🏼
 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.23  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.1.13    2 years ago

amused by racial arguments about Christ

I’m amused by any argument for Christ.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
2.1.25  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.24    2 years ago

[Deleted.  So there’s that.]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.27  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @2.1    2 years ago
He’s very caucasian.

Wasn't he a Jew?  Therefore the picture works.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
3  Snuffy    2 years ago

The early Christian fathers, in an effort to make Christianity more palatable to the "pagans" in the world borrowed many pagan holidays and renamed them.  Such as taking the date of December 25th as the birth of Christ when it's widely believed he was actually born in spring.  

But in the case of Easter they did not borrow a pagan holiday.  So the answer to the question asked by this seed, no Easter is not a Pagan holiday.  

Separation of Easter from Jewish Passover

After the June 19 settlement of the most important topic, the question of the date of the Christian Passover ( Easter ) was brought up. This feast is linked to the Jewish   Passover , as the   crucifixion   and   resurrection   of Jesus occurred during that festival. By the year 300   C.E. , some Churches had adopted a divergent style of celebrating the feast, placing the emphasis on the resurrection which they believed occurred on Sunday. Others however celebrated the feast on the 14th of the Jewish month Nisan, the date of the crucifixion according to the Bible's Hebrew calendar ( Leviticus 23:5 ,   John 19:14 ). Hence this group was called Quartodecimans, which is derived from the Latin for 14. The Eastern Churches of   Syria , Cilicia, and Mesopotamia determined the date of Christian Passover in relation to the 14th day of Nisan, in the Bible's Hebrew calendar.   Alexandria   and   Rome , however, followed a different calculation, attributed to   Pope Soter , so that Christian Passover would never coincide with the Jewish observance and decided in favor of celebrating on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox, independently of the Bible's Hebrew calendar.

According to Louis Duchesne, [22]   who founds his conclusions:

  1. on the conciliar letter to the Alexandrians preserved in Theodoret; [23]
  2. on the circular letter of Constantine to the bishops after the council; [24]
  3. on Athanasius; [25]

Epiphanius of Salamis wrote in the mid-fourth century "… the emperor … convened a council of 318 bishops … in the city of Nicea. … They passed certain ecclesiastical canons at the council besides, and at the same time decreed in regard to the Passover that there must be one unanimous concord on the celebration of God's holy and supremely excellent day. For it was variously observed by people…" [26]

The council assumed the task of regulating these differences, in part because some dioceses were determined not to have Christian Passover correspond with the Jewish calendar. "The feast of the resurrection was thenceforth required to be celebrated everywhere on a Sunday, and never on the day of the Jewish passover, but always after the fourteenth of Nisan, on the Sunday after the first vernal full moon. The leading motive for this regulation was opposition to Judaism…." [27]

The Council of Nicaea, however, did not declare the Alexandrian or Roman calculations as normative. Instead, the council gave the Bishop of Alexandria the privilege of announcing annually the date of Christian Passover to the Roman curia. Although the synod undertook the regulation of the dating of Christian Passover, it contented itself with communicating its decision to the different dioceses, instead of establishing a canon. There was subsequent conflict over this very matter.
 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.1  JBB  replied to  Snuffy @3    2 years ago

Not exactly. Spring festivals celebrating the end of winter and the rebirth of nature, the resurrection of their earth, were ubiquitous in the ancient world...

 
 
 
Snuffy
Professor Participates
3.1.1  Snuffy  replied to  JBB @3.1    2 years ago

Yes there were spring festivals all over the world.  But as I showed above, the purpose out of the Counsel of Nicea in setting the date for Easter was to insure it was kept separate from the Jewish passover as during this time there was a tremendous amount of hatred towards the Jewish religion and culture.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
4  bbl-1    2 years ago

Is Easter a Pagan holiday?  No.  But the 'so called christians' that celebrate it are.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
4.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  bbl-1 @4    2 years ago

What Christians don’t celebrate Easter?  

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5  epistte    2 years ago

Of course, Easter is the Christian attempt to rebrand the pagan spring holiday of fertility. That is why there are eggs and bunnys.

Ostara

Spring equinox (or Ostara, from the Saxon goddess) is one of the four ‘lesser sabbats’. It is celebrated around 21st March when the day has roughly an equal amount of sun and darkness. This solar festival is the opposite point on the wheel to Mabon or autumn equinox.

With Imbolc marking the first stirrings of spring, Ostara is about celebrating spring happening in earnest: flowers growing tall, trees blossoming, and crops being sown. As with the Christian Easter, eggs, typically painted, symbolise new life.

Much of the symbolism and tradition here is related to the new life of spring – the mating season for many animals. The God and Goddess couple up and the Child of Promise is conceived. The equality of the day partly represents the duality of the nature of the God – his primaeval sexual instinct versus his conscious thought.

Some modern pagans celebrate the festival by choosing a man and a woman to play the roles of the God and Goddess, acting out the romance.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  epistte @5    2 years ago

Of course, Easter is the Christian attempt to rebrand the pagan spring holiday of fertility. That is why there are eggs and bunnys.

Was that a German tradition or Christian wide, dating back to when?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.1  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1    2 years ago

There are numerous cultures that celebrate a pagan "Easter".

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.1    2 years ago

Dating back to when?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.3  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.2    2 years ago

At least 2,000 years, in Mesopotamia. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.4  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.3    2 years ago
Another version of the "Easter has roots in paganism" idea associates the celebration of the resurrection with the ancient Sumerian myth of Tammuz and Ishtar. This myth, which is an explanation of the annual cycle of death in winter, tells of Tammuz and Ishtar spending half a year in the underworld, before a new birth when they are released for six months each spring. The myth bears little resemblance to resurrection story, especially the three days Jesus spent in the tomb and his once-and-for-all resurrection from the dead. Even so, this pagan story and others like it may, in fact, be connected to Christianity, just not in the way we normally think. In fact, we may have it the wrong way around. As C. S. Lewis described
 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5.1.5  epistte  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1    2 years ago

 It was common to all of central Europe and the UK.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5.1.6  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.1.4    2 years ago

C.S. Lewis is a Christian apologist, He is not a historian, despite what you choose to believe in.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.3    2 years ago
Mesopotamia

No references?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  epistte @5.1.5    2 years ago

As I detailed in the first Easter Bunny post, Ostara herself is a shadowy figure in Germanic folklore. Her story begins with Eostre, an Anglo-Saxon goddess who is not documented from pagan sources at all, and turns up in only one early Christian source, the writings of the English churchman Bede.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5.1.9  epistte  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.8    2 years ago

 The idea of a spring festival of rebirth predates even the Romans, back to the greeks.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  epistte @5.1.9    2 years ago

Like with other seasons, most cultures have celebrated Spring.  Many people have celebrated birthdays as well so it's clear that Christmas is simple a repurposed celebration.  

Today is Hanuman Jayanti which of course marks the birthday of Lord Sri Hanuman.  Hindus attend temples to worship him and they receive sweets and flowers. Perhaps Easter is a lift of this Hindu celebration.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.11  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.7    2 years ago

I doubt they're necessary as you seem fond of asking questions you already know the answers to.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.11    2 years ago

I doubt they're necessary

Who is they and not necessary to what?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.13  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.12    2 years ago

My reply was to your 5.1.7 post. Follow it up the thread for your answers. I'm weary of your constant sealioning.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.13    2 years ago

Nothing disingenuous about my asking for more information about Mesopotamia’s Spring celebration with rabbits and hard boiled eggs in 0022.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.15  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.14    2 years ago

Try Google, I never knew Mesopotamians' spring rituals involved rabbits and hard boiled eggs.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.15    2 years ago

What were you trying to say in 5.1.3.?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.1.17  JBB  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.15    2 years ago

Egyptians were celebrating the rise of the Nile which symbolized to them the resurrection of their god Osiris over 4,500 years ago. The pyramids also date to about 2,500 BC...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris#:~:text=The%20first%20evidence%20of%20the,used%20as%20a%20pharaonic%20title.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.18  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1.16    2 years ago

Is english your second language ?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.1.19  pat wilson  replied to  JBB @5.1.17    2 years ago

Very similar to Easter.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.1.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.18    2 years ago

No, is it your native one?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.21  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @5.1.11    2 years ago
I doubt they're necessary

It is now a must.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.1.22  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.21    2 years ago

You are exactly right! 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  epistte @5    2 years ago

The seeded article specifically rebuts the whole Ostara thing.  

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.1  pat wilson  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.2    2 years ago

Not at all, it actually reinforces it, despite some of it's ludicrous assertions.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2.2  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.1    2 years ago

The assertions are all correct and the ones of C.S. Lewis are most right of all.  

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.3  pat wilson  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.2.2    2 years ago

The guy who wrote fairy tales.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5.2.4  epistte  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.2    2 years ago

 Where in your replies does that happen?  Your delusions or beliefs are not reality or fact to [deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.3    2 years ago

The guy who wrote fairy tales.

I didn't know that he wrote fairy tales.  I knew that as the chair of Medieval and Renaissance Literature, he wrote a number of scholarly books and papers. He published two book of poetry prior to becoming a Christian and then there are his well known adult and children novels and short stories.  But he also found the time to write fairy tales as well, amazing.

 

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.6  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.5    2 years ago

Ever hear of The Witch, The Lion and The Wardrobe ?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.6    2 years ago

Why yes, I’ve heard of that children's novel, did you like it?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.8  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.7    2 years ago

It was by C.S. Lewis, you know, the fairy tale writer.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.8    2 years ago

Does that mean you liked his novel or that you liked his fairy tales better?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.10  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.9    2 years ago

Who said I liked his writing ?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.10    2 years ago

Are you purposely writing obtuse comments?

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.12  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.11    2 years ago

What's obtuse about my 5.2.10 ? Is my question not clear ?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.12    2 years ago

It is an unusual question unless you misunderstood me in 5.2.7 when I asked you if you liked the novel you referenced.  In 5.2.9 I asked which of his writing you liked better.  I never said that you liked him.  Since you are confused about fairy tales, perhaps you’re not really familiar with his writings at all.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.14  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.13    2 years ago
Since you are confused about fairy tales

Not at all. If you want to split hairs between children's novels and fairy tales, knock yourself out, maybe another shot of wry for you is in order.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.14    2 years ago

If you want to split hairs between children's novels and fairy tales,

Split hairs?  You can’t see the difference between Charlotte's Web or A Wrinkle in Time and Grimms’ Fairy Tales or Jack and the Beanstalk.  It’s like you no little about literature. 

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.16  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.15    2 years ago

That's right, I know little about literature. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.16    2 years ago

We should probably move on then.  I’m sure that there will be a seed here soon that you’re more comfortable with.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Participates
5.2.18  pat wilson  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.17    2 years ago

Gee, Wry, I concede to your assertion and you still found the need to insult me ? 

Happy Easter

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Expert
5.2.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  pat wilson @5.2.18    2 years ago

Chag Pesach sameach.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.3  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  epistte @5    2 years ago
There are multiple problems with this theory, however, the Venerable Bede notwithstanding. For centuries, the Church fought to turn people from paganism. Therefore, it is unlikely that one of the most important Christian holidays would be named after a pagan goddess. More importantly, there is no evidence, aside from Bede, of a goddess named Eostre, nor is there evidence for a Germanic goddess named Ostara. The name Easter is only used in English, and its cognate Ostern in German. Everywhere else, even in Germanic languages such as Dutch, Norwegian, or Swedish, the word is derived from Pascha or Passover. And, since Resurrection Day was celebrated for hundreds of years before the Anglo-Saxons or Germans were converted,
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.3.1  seeder  XXJefferson51  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.3    2 years ago
it is unconvincing that its name points to a pagan origin of the holiday. More likely, Bede was mistaken, either following a folk etymology or simply guessing.
 
 

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