The Battle over Ballots

  
By:  Vic Eldred  •  4 months ago  •  43 comments


The Battle over Ballots
"Thousands of votes are gathered, and I’m not going to say which party does it, but thousands of votes are gathered, and they come in, and they’re dumped in a location, and then all of a sudden you lose elections that you think you’re going to win," President Trump said in April.

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We the People


Last night, without much fanfare, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi announced a $3.6 Billion vote proposal. The proposal supposedly has two benefits according to Pelosi - it keeps people safe at home and it helps bolster the failing US Postal Service. This announcement came on the heels of the President warning the states of Michigan and Nevada about implementing such plans.


Question: Why are we suddenly in a power struggle over this issue?

The answer lies here:

"Indeed, strong enthusiasm for Biden among his supporters – at just 24% – is the lowest on record for a Democratic presidential candidate in 20 years of ABC/Post polls. More than twice as many of Trump’s supporters are highly enthusiastic about supporting him, 53%."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-consolidates-support-trails-badly-enthusiasm-poll/story?id=69812092


The democrats are stuck with an old feeble minded candidate who was once thought to appeal to independents and moderate voters. He has trouble focusing, remembering, communicating or even completing a simple sentence. He is currently hunkered down in his basement away from the normal campaign process. Whoever he selects as his running mate is likely to be the actual functioning president should he ever get elected. The poll above is the key problem in all of this for democrats. Unless one really hates the current President, there is little motivation to get up from the comforts of home to physically go out and vote for the likes of senile Joe Biden. Therefore democrats have decided to bring the ballots to the doorstep of those lacking the fortitude to simply go out and vote.

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A national Vote-at-home system would also raise the prospect of voter fraud. Each ballot sent in would somehow require a method to positively identify the voter. Then there is the issue of ballot harvesting which is legal in California:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ballot-harvesting-bounty-how-dems-used-election-law-change-to-rout-california-republicans


Another question may be the ability of the US Postal Service being able to handle all the mail in the coming presidential election.




The issue may eventually be settled by the Courts. A federal judge in Texas recently sided with democrats and the Attorney General of Texas has immediately appealed the decision. In Nevada the RNC has already made an appeal to the AG there:

"Together with the Nevada GOP, Republican National Committee (RNC) chairwoman Ronna McDaniel on Wednesday demanded the state investigate what she called a "shady" and potentially illegal "backroom deal" by local politicians that would alter voting procedures ahead of the state's all mail-in June 9 primary."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/shady-backroom-deal-could-swing-upcoming-nevada-primary-election-rnc-tells-state-attorney-general




How will it all play out before the 2020 presidential election?

It may all depend on what remains of the pandemic by November.



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Vic Eldred
1  author  Vic Eldred    4 months ago

This one is clearly a question of motives.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2  JohnRussell    4 months ago

Right wingers and other Trumpsters know he is completely up against it.  A new national poll today by Quinnipiac shows Biden up 11 points nationally. Were the final count on election day anywhere near that it would be impossible for Trump to win the electoral college. 

The truth is Trump is self-destructing with bizarre, dishonest, and dangerous behavior. His crusade against mail in voting will backfire on him too. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @2    4 months ago
A new national poll today by Quinnipiac shows Biden up 11 points nationally.

I am so glad that we have you on record. So when the difference is down to approx 4 points come the week of the election, you will recall the double digit difference now and not tell us that it was always close!


The truth is Trump is self-destructing with bizarre, dishonest, and dangerous behavior. 

The truth is that left wing democrats are dishonest devious and evil!  We will discuss it again over a Rum & Coke on November 4th.

 
 
 
evilgenius
2.1.1  evilgenius  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1    4 months ago
The truth is that left wing democrats are dishonest devious and evil! 

Sounds like far right projection to me.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
2.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilgenius @2.1.1    4 months ago

To you?  I'll bet!

 
 
 
squiggy
3  squiggy    4 months ago

"Therefore democrats have decided to bring the ballots to the doorstep of those lacking the fortitude to simply go out and vote."

That's a sugar coating for the actual practice of telling somebody whom to vote for and signing the ballot. The only fair vote is the in-person secrecy of a polling station. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  squiggy @3    4 months ago
The only fair vote is the in-person secrecy of a polling station. 

Correct.....Anybody who has little motivation to vote or little interest in the election shouldn't be deciding elections. Let them stay home doing whatever it is that makes 'em happy.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    4 months ago

How many times has Trump voted by mail? 

The president, vice president and cabinet members have voted by mail recently.

Mr. Trump, while criticizing mail voting, recently   acknowledged   that in March he voted absentee by mail in his adopted home state of Florida. In the 2018 midterm elections, Mr. Trump voted absentee by mail from New York.

Mr. Trump is hardly the only administration official to vote by mail. Vice President Mike Pence voted absentee by mail for both the primary and general election in 2018. Alex Azar, the Health and Human Services secretary, also voted absentee in 2018 and Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary, has voted absentee 15 times in the last 15 years, according to Florida’s voter file. Mr. Ross, like Mr. Trump, voted absentee for Florida’s primary last month.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    4 months ago

John, surely you understand that Donald Trump is the President?  He has presidential duties & responsibilities, just like the men and women of the armed forces. Mail in voting is appropriate for all of the above plus the disabled. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
3.1.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    4 months ago

And, for the most part, it would be a fools errand to demand that these officials fly back to their home states to vote when they are located in D.C. and on the job. FFS

But Trump LMAO

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    4 months ago
Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary, has voted absentee 15 times in the last 15 years,

I bet you Trump voted by mail numerous times before he ran for president. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.1.3    4 months ago
And, for the most part, it would be a fools errand to demand that these officials fly back to their home states to vote when they are located in D.C. and on the job.

It's the unique idea of comparing the President to a private citizen. I recall when a reporter confronted then President Reagan with the fact that the new President hadn't been seen in church. President Reagan responded that since he became President he had stopped attending places of public worship as he felt it would endanger the churches that he attended. He also felt he did not want to distract the church goers from their services.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.4    4 months ago

Trump? maybe, In my case, I have never, ever voted by mail and I've been voting ever since the rotten rabble railed against the Vietnam War!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.5    4 months ago
President Reagan responded that since he became President he had stopped attending places of public worship as he felt it would endanger the churches that he attended.

lol. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    4 months ago

You may recall that President Reagan was shot...

It's easy to forget, he seemed to walk away from it in such a manly manner!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.1.9  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    4 months ago
John, surely you understand that Donald Trump is the President?  He has presidential duties & responsibilities, just like the men and women of the armed forces.

If he can go golfing at Mar-a-Lago every week, he can vote in person.

TRUMP GOLF COUNT: 249

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1.9    4 months ago

Ya he gets all the same perks as every other president.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
3.1.11  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1.9    4 months ago
If he can go golfing at Mar-a-Lago every week, he can vote in person.

On the weekends. Voting takes place on Tuesdays in the majority of states. Unless you want him to take 4 day weekends.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.12  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    4 months ago

No one is begrudging him being able to do a mail in vote.  But he decries mail in voting is an open door for fraud.  He is also spreading the lie that mail in voting ballots were sent out to voters in MI.  What was sent out were applications for mail in ballots, not the ballots themselves.  My husband was disabled and had to apply for one.  It was not sent to him automatically. There have been past presidents who were just as busy if not more, but but voted in person anyway.  Trump does have the right to do a mail in but should stfu considering the past fraud he and Melania did commit the last time with mail in ballots.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.8    4 months ago
It's easy to forget, he seemed to walk away from it in such a manly manner!

thats even funnier than your first comment. 

Would Trumps presence in a church put civilians in any more danger than they are in at any of his other public activities? 

its kind of silly to say so. 

Reagan didnt go to church because he wasnt very religious. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.1.12    4 months ago
But he decries mail in voting is an open door for fraud. 

It is a valid concern, is it not?


What was sent out were applications for mail in ballots, not the ballots themselves. 

We know and he knows - he made a mistake.


My husband was disabled and had to apply for one.

The disabled have every right to vote by mail. There is no argument on that.


considering the past fraud he and Melania did commit the last time with mail in ballots.

Could you explain?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.13    4 months ago
thats even funnier than your first comment. 

Your'e so easy to entertain!


Would Trumps presence in a church put civilians in any more danger than they are in at any of his other public activities? 

That's an easy one - No. Are you conflating Donald Trump with Ronald Reagan?


Reagan didnt go to church because he wasnt very religious. 

Wrong again!

"Q: Nor is it well known that Reagan began teaching a Sunday-school class when he was 15.

A: When I went through the Dixon church records, I found that he didn't miss a single Sunday in the two years or so that he taught that class. He even drove back home on Sundays the first four weeks after he'd gone off to Eureka College in September 1928 to finish his teaching obligations to that class. In those days it must have been at least a two-hour drive.

christianpost.com/news/the-christian-faith-of-ronald-reagan.html



BTW, any thoughts on the questions in the article?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.16  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.14    4 months ago

He claimed to be a resident of FL as a permanent guest at Mar A Largo when the charter he was granted prohibited permanent guests, even him.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.1.18  Ozzwald  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.1.11    4 months ago
On the weekends. Voting takes place on Tuesdays in the majority of states. Unless you want him to take 4 day weekends.

Are you saying he would be unwilling to skip 1 weekend golf, so he could vote in person???

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.1.19  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.14    4 months ago
It is a valid concern, is it not?

No it's not, unless you would like to provide evidence about rampant voter fraud by mail, then explain why it has never, ever, been challenged by the GOP before.

We know and he knows - he made a mistake.

Trump has never admitted to making any mistake, and has gone out of his way to try and prove he was right.  Covfefe??

?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F5a%2F42%2Fbccf4258496a962387f7ded31cb4%2F20190904-trump-map-sharpie-ap-773.jpg

The disabled have every right to vote by mail. There is no argument on that.

Has he actually admitted that the disabled should be able to vote by mail?

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1.18    4 months ago
Are you saying he would be unwilling to skip 1 weekend golf, so he could vote in person???

WTF did YOU read???????????????????????

 
 
 
Ozzwald
3.1.21  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.20    4 months ago
WTF did YOU read?

sigh...Once again, in the English language a question mark (?) at the end of a sentence signifies a query, not a statement. 

I do not understand why this simple example of basic English punctuation continues to confuse you.

 
 
 
Texan1211
3.1.22  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1.21    4 months ago
sigh...Once again, in the English language a question mark (?) at the end of a sentence signifies a query, not a statement. 

yes, I know what a question mark is and how it is used.

What I don't get is what you fucking read that led you to ask such a dumbfuck question to begin with.

 
 
 
squiggy
3.1.23  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    4 months ago

From the National Conference of State Legislatures -

  • Opportunities for coercion. If a voter is marking a ballot at home, and not in the presence of election officials, there may be more opportunity for coercion by family members or others.                                                                                                                                             

 
 
 
squiggy
3.1.24  squiggy  replied to  squiggy @3.1.23    4 months ago
... or others - like Cornpop. It's bad enough that states can allow a few large cities to dictate policy but voting from home, absent a real excuse, isn't going to work on a national scale.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @3.1.16    4 months ago

Paula are you really that fixated on Donald Trump that you loose sight of what this conversation was about?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
3.1.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ozzwald @3.1.19    4 months ago
No it's not, unless you would like to provide evidence about rampant voter fraud by mail, then explain why it has never, ever, been challenged by the GOP before.

Maybe you should explain why the left is always against safeguards on voter integrity?


Trump has never admitted to making any mistake

And he probably never will, but I'll gladly take that over an efficient soft spoken radical who tries to transform this country into Oceania.


Has he actually admitted that the disabled should be able to vote by mail?

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Snuffy
4  Snuffy    4 months ago

I imagine this will be a discussion (aka argument) over the next several months and probably will last longer than November.  But remember I'm terrible at predicting the future.  I went to bed early on election day in 2016 knowing that Clinton was going to win.

Let me first state that I am in favor of vote by mail.  I've been voting this way for about 12-14 years now. It's easy to set up in my state, easy to request as the application is online.

But the two issues this brings up is that first isn't management of the national vote really an issue for each individual state?  We don't have federal elections in this country, we have 50 individual state votes to cover our national government. So deciding to allow voting by mail really should be a state decision and managed by the states. If the states want to request monies from the federal government to help set it up they can ask, but the responsibility should be on the state.  Congress has no business stepping into that IMO.

Secondly the issue of ballot harvesting.  I am totally against allowing anything like that. In my state if a person cannot get their ballot mailed in by the deadline (which is always before the actual election) a family member or a person who lives in the same residence can drop the ballot off at a voting station in it's sealed envelope. But ballot harvesting like they allowed in CA in the 2018 election should not be allowed. There is too much risk of fraud in that I believe.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Snuffy @4    4 months ago

Thank you for elevating the discussion.

Those are valid points. I'd like to add one thing, if I may:

So deciding to allow voting by mail really should be a state decision and managed by the states.

It is true, but a President may ask congress to hold up discretionary funds to a state which suddenly/questionably changes it's election laws.


 
 
 
Vic Eldred
5  author  Vic Eldred    4 months ago

This little article is now in the hands of the group mods. I have pressing duties to attend to.

I leave this one for our readers:

"Red flags are being raised about the all-mail voting system being used in Nevada’s most populous county ahead of the state’s June 9  primary election  amid reports that thousands of ballots are being sent to inactive voters -- fueling concerns about the possibility of voter fraud and  ballot harvesting .
Thousands of  ballots  have been sent out by the Clark County Election Department to inactive voters – those who have not voted in recent elections, a roster that can include people who either have moved or are deceased – and the envelopes are piling up in post office trays, outside apartment complexes and on community bulletin boards in and around Las Vegas.
The excess ballots have drawn complaints from local residents, who worry that anyone could pick up a ballot off the street and cast a fraudulent vote, as well as from Republican Party officials in the state who see a nefarious motive behind the vote-by-mail system being employed by the Democrat-dominated Clark County Commission."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nevadas-vote-by-mail-primary-fraud-concerns

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
5.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    4 months ago

Stay safe Vic and hope all works out for you whatever it is.

 
 
 
It Is ME
6  It Is ME    4 months ago

I'm all for "Mail in Ballots". Does the "X" touch all four corners of the "Box". If not.....it's "null and void" ! 

Now comes the day of the "Corner Checkers" count. Chad, Chad, Chad.....bring back the dangling Chad ! jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

The "Mail in Ballot Only"....WILL get that "Stupid". jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Nerm_L
7  Nerm_L    4 months ago

Another hair-on-fire controversy over nothing of importance.  The squabbling and quibbling over vote by mail only serves to protect a two party system that depends upon unfair elections.

Vote by mail would likely boost third party and independent candidates.  The bar is much lower to encourage voters to mail a ballot than to go to the polls.  Vote by mail allows third party and independent candidates to be more competitive by eliminating the costs associated with 'get out the vote' efforts.  Vote by mail reduces the advantage enjoyed by the two party money machines.

Vote by mail would also likely make party strongholds more competitive.  Opposition parties can capture the 'why bother' non-voters in party strongholds.  Vote by mail could make the country more purple rather than more red or blue.

IMO the fight over vote by mail is really about protecting Congressional seats in the House.  Vote by mail wouldn't affect Senatorial elections and wouldn't change the Electoral count in Presidential elections by any significant amount.  To me it seems that vote by mail would lessen the advantage of incumbency.  Vote by mail would boost third party and independent challenges to incumbents.  Overall it would be more difficult for the two parties to claim a political mandate.

 
 
 
squiggy
7.1  squiggy  replied to  Nerm_L @7    4 months ago

Party affiliation flows with population density and it's not difficult to imagine people being told how to vote, in a city, outnumbering a rural voters - every time.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
7.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  squiggy @7.1    4 months ago
Party affiliation flows with population density and it's not difficult to imagine people being told how to vote, in a city, outnumbering a rural voters - every time.

About 82 pct of the US population lives in urban areas today.  The size of the rural population has not changed dramatically since 1960; the size of the rural population has not significantly increased or declined.  The size of the urban population has experienced significant growth since 1960.  Nationally the urban population will always outnumber the rural population.  That doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation.

Naturally the two parties focus attention on the urban population because that provides the most bang for the buck.  Political spending is a determining factor in urban party affiliation.  But that party affiliation isn't unanimous.  The political money machine has established a fairly large group of 'why bother' non-voters.  That's reflected by a voter turnout of less than 65 pct; voter turnout is often well below 60 pct.

Mail in voting could capture more of those 'why bother' non-voters.  But those non-voters aren't necessarily going to support the two parties or the majority party in a stronghold.  The two party system hasn't motivated non-voters to turn out.  That's why I think vote by mail would have the biggest influence on third party and independent candidates.

 
 
 
squiggy
7.1.2  squiggy  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.1    4 months ago

I’m wary of the ward boss. The yield of supervised voting will be heavily democrat - not simply an increased overall response.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
7.1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  squiggy @7.1.2    4 months ago
I’m wary of the ward boss. The yield of supervised voting will be heavily democrat - not simply an increased overall response.

Party bosses manipulate voter turn out by moving polling stations, limiting the number of polling stations, and increasing wait time to cast a ballot.  Party bosses control the vote by increasing the inconvenience of voting.  40 to 45 pct of eligible voters don't bother; in part because polling station voting is inconvenient.    

Vote by mail requires paper ballots.  There is a tangible record of votes that can be audited and recounted.  The volume of mail provides an independent indicator of voter participation.  Vote by mail would overcome some of the problems of ballot harvesting and inadvertent (or intentional) loss of votes.

 
 
 
squiggy
7.1.4  squiggy  replied to  Nerm_L @7.1.3    4 months ago
"40 to 45 pct of eligible voters don't bother..." That apathy is for sale - be it a loosey, a 40 ouncer, or avoiding a twisted nose. "Sign this or I break your fuckin arm" carries sway.

 
 
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