It is almost certain that Kushner lied to the FBI about his interactions with Flynn vis a vis Flynn's effort to get the Russians , and others, to delay a vote about Israel in the UN Security Council.

What next?

Mueller is doing a meticulous job working his way up the ladder. Silence until results, the greatest weapons there are against paranoid republicans. The more paranoid they become, the more they are prone to make mistakes. I'm sure Mueller has enough work completed to make his potential removal politically devastating. A legal fail-safe insurance plan. The rightwing has a month to try and dump Mueller before we're in the mid-term election cycle and the only R's calling for his removal now are those that haven't been contacted by Mueller. Every member on his team was familiar with potential future political scenarios when they joined. Whether the fascist segment of the GOtP learned their lesson with the final results of Constitutional crisis created by the Nixon administration, or not, will be the final test of the lengths teapublicans are willing to go in order to retain their grip on power. That's if Trump doesn't implicate himself during some 4am twitter rage while sitting on his shitter. Kushner has been hiding in the shadows for weeks. Any scandal related Presidential pardons in the next year will be a political broadside at the ballot box on the already floundering GOtP in the legislative branch and they know it. Watching Ivanka's husband getting perp walked during the holidays would be funny though.

I have a feeling that Mueller thinks that it is his responsibility to rid the country of Donald Trump and spare us three more years of this dangerous farce. He is like Elliot Ness and Trump is like the Capone gang.

Just on the face of it Trump obstructed justice when he fired Comey.    Mueller knows that and is doing a fine job.

I can't wait for tomorrow's tweet storm from the sociopath-in-chief.

Gratifying to know that there are still some loyal Americans left in government.

It appears that Flynn has named Jared Kushner as the person who directed him to contact the Russians .

There are just too many Russians associated with this 'current' administration.   Why?   

I just wonder when it's all over, Trump is still President and the GDP is 4%, not 1.9% as it was when Obama left office, will any of you, after you've been released from rehab and are in complete recovery after being jerked around like a dirty little rag doll by the main stream media for so long, will any of you put an article up and tell us what it was like?

will any of you put an article up and tell us what it was like?

Nope, because by the the internet will be too expensive for anyone to be able to afford other than the richest 1% who can spend a fraction of the money they got from their tax cuts to pay for the internet.

I don't think so Ozzwald.  Here are a couple links.

cnbc

marketwatch

pewresearch

Now back to the topic:

Fake News Station: ABC News

ABC News colludes with Hillary’s pet narrative, embarrassment ensues

When I saw an ABC News report early Friday about “candidate” Trump supposedly ordering Michael Flynn to contact Russia before the election, I said to myself “ it’s Brian Ross  — wait for the real story to come out.” And  sure enough :

ABC News issued a correction Friday on  a report published earlier in the day that stated former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was instructed by President Trump to contact Russians while Trump was still a candidate.

Instead,  the “clarification” noted that Trump’s request came after the election – a significant detail  as Trump would have been transitioning from campaign mode to preparing for the start of his administration.

“Significant detail” indeed. How’s this for a  “clarification” ?

Clarification: During a live Special Report,  ABC News reported that a confidant of Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn said Flynn was prepared to testify that then-candidate Donald Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials during the campaign.  That source later clarified that during the campaign, Trump assigned Flynn and a small circle of other senior advisers to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other hot spots.  It was shortly after the election, that President-elect Trump directed Flynn to contact Russian officials on topics that included working jointly against ISIS.

The original Brian Ross report pushing the “collusion” angle really implodes when it’s discovered that if Trump had Flynn contact Russia, it was after the election. It’s kind of difficult to “collude” with Russia to win an election  after the election has taken place , but this is ABC News we’re talking about, and they’ve got a narrative to push.

I’m still laughing at the “clarification” part. They spelled “retraction” wrong:

Link

Mueller has now penetrated the highest level of the 2016 Trump campaign. The next to fall will be Kushner and Donnie Jr. Their financial records have been intertwined with Trump's. It's just a matter of time now with all of them maneuvering to spend the least amount of years behind bars. Flynn holds all the trump cards and can tie it all together as an indicted unregistered foreign agent traveling with the Trump campaign it's last 4 months prior to the election, unpaid and across 3 different campaign managers. If he gets caught lying again, any plea deals are off. If Trump chooses to pardon any family members, teapublicans will take it in the ass in the mid-terms next year.  

I think you are missing the point Six. I don't think Mueller cares how he nails Trump, I think he just wants Trump to be gone. Collusion, or something else, as long as it forces Trump to leave, it's all good.

Not gonna happen!

So if what you say is true about Mueller's intent then he needs resign now or be replaced.  That is hardly impartial and now an obvious open ended witch hunt.

The only thing I've seen of the charges of Flynn was he lied to the FBI.  He wasn't charged with what he lied about or even that he colluded with the Russian ambassador.

I'm not contending that Mueller is not fair or professional, to the contrary.

I also think he believes he is the only one that can take down Trump, and as a patriot that is what he intends to do.

Well, I'm not missing that point at all.  By crook or hook, he wants him gone because they are all afraid of Trump and they know he will not carry on the lack of transparency that has taken over our country by the government against the people.

Now I'll repeat my point.

I just wonder when it's all over, Trump is still President and the GDP is 4%, not 1.9% as it was when Obama left office, will any of you, after you've been released from rehab and are in complete recovery after being jerked around like a dirty little rag doll by the main stream media for so long, will any of you put an article up and tell us what it was like?

Rag Doll

I hope you don't think I was expecting any credibility from you LMM or that it mattered to me before or after that comment. LOL

John pretty much said Mueller wanted Trump gone and would go to any extent in making that happen.  And you know what......  I agree with him.

I hope you don't think I was expecting any credibility from you LMM

That ship sailed long, long ago. 

You ran a photo of Mueller as a Nazi.

Maybe he was trying to say that Mueller is really a supporter of Trump like all the other Nazi's that exist in the US...

That's what all the personalized invitations to join the trump administration looked like.

Inappropriate image.

''Lock him up''

I would like to see that too, Kavika, but it will probably come down to Trump being allowed to step down to avoid charges.

If the charges are not serious enough to prosecute, they are not serious enough to step down.

I agree John. It's become clear there was no collusion (the ostensible reason for the witch hunt) but rather Mueller's purpose is to exploit the legal system to achieve what the Democrats couldn't do at the ballot box. There was no basis for the appointment of a special prosecutor to begin with and now the only crimes that appear likely to be found are those that occurred from  dealing with a rogue prosecutor with a political agenda. 

It's become clear there was no collusion

What do you base this statement on? 

to date, there's been zero evidence of any collusion with Russia. Either, there was no collusion, or all of those charged are merely loose ends with no relevance to the actual case of conspiring with Russia. I bet it's the former.

if Flynn played any role in conspiring with Russia in regards to the election he would have plead to conspiracy and allocuted facts that support the existence of a conspiracy. 

You could be right, but then there is this... If there was no collusion and nothing illegal was done, why have ALL of these people repeatedly lied about the meetings...over and over again? If there is no illegality, there is no reason to lie. 

If there was no collusion and nothing illegal was done, why have ALL of these people repeatedly lied about the meetings

If/when "THE TRUTH" is exculpatory, the wrongfully-accused have nothing to gain by lying. If "The Truth" would set them free. why would the lie and throw investigators away from what would prove their innocence.

Lying in these situations is often referred to as "CONSCIOUSNESS OF GUILT".

Consciousness of Guilt Law and Legal Definition. Evidentiary rules allow a prosecutor to introduce testimony that tends to show that the defendants actions prove he knew he was guilty (at least of something). ... Flight, when unexplained, may indicate consciousness of guilt if the facts and the circumstances support it.

Time to stop with the generic terminology fed to a poorly informed public, and start calling IT what IT REALLY IS!

To the public, Mueller is either looking for evidence of, or, NOT looking for evidence of "COLLUSION" between the Trump Campaign and Whitehouse and Russia.

Forget that word "collusion" at the point we find (what is publicly known, misrepresented, denied on a partisan basis) about the Mueller investigation. Because IMO, an ass or two is going to be charged with something else!

Black's Law Dictionary   defines   collusion as "a deceitful agreement or compact between two or more persons, for the one party to bring an action against the other for some evil purpose, as to defraud a third party..."

Whereas a conspiracy ,   on the other hand , is defined as "a combination or confederacy between two or more persons formed for the purposes of committing, by their joint efforts, some unlawful or criminal act, or some act which is innocent in itself, but becomes unlawful when done by the concerted action of the conspirators."  

There can be "collusion" without having a criminal conspiracy, but you can't have a criminal conspiracy without some sort of collusion.

There's a good and specific reason, again, IMO, that the "collusion" word is not being thrown around so much currently in conjunction with Flynn/Mueller, etc. . And those whistling past the grave yard in the fading appearance of the term "collusion," will ultimately learn that it's a "CONSPIRACY" that will bring down the house!

I have a couple of wagers herein that Trump will not complete his four year term as POTUS … $25.00 for the American Cancer Society is the wager. I'll take two more such wagers, or, one for $50.00 if anyone on NT is game.

Honor System … if you take the wager … and lose (myself included), you/I send the donation and state somewhere conspicuous on NT, that its been sent!

Let us know if you're in.

If there's a conspiracy, why didn't Flynn plead to it, which is SOP in proving the existence of a conspiracy?

there is none.

the guy pleaded guilty... the case/hearing is over and will go straight to sentencing

If there's a conspiracy, why didn't Flynn plead to it, which is SOP in proving the existence of a conspiracy?

We don't know that he hasn't so plead, do we? Flynn's best deal is to plea bargain the lesser charge, in this case, maximum 5 years for lying to the FBI. He may also be indictable for conspiracy to kidnap a Turkish cleric among other things, Possibly you are not aware of an apparent plea deal given to an Erdogan operative imprisoned in the U.S. … 

And while Flynn may know of a conspiracy involving Trump, Trump, Jr., Kushner, Manafort, et al, he may or may not have been a player as much as a source of information.

Use your imagination, Sean.

Are you in for the $25.00?

What? you in Mueller's hip pocket? or, I know, he keeps you in the loop right Mr Frosty?

I'm in for the 50, I'm betting he serves out his first term...

Not at all, it's basic common sense that Muller knows a LOT more than we do. 

the guy pleaded guilty... the case/hearing is over and will go straight to sentencing

Thank goodness you're here to spare us the wonder of what might transpire.

The plea bargain and admission in court for lying to the FBI is all that's over; if there is more, and likely there is more, if Flynn reneges on flipping or tries to deflect/deceive/deny on what Mueller likely is hot on nailing down, Flynn and likely his son … will be indicted on more serious counts.

Your pronouncements are just that; if you want to speculate, go right ahead … and make it clear that you're speculating or opining … but any reasonable person does not think this is over.

I'm in for the 50, I'm betting he serves out his first term...

Thank you; the window is now closed and the race is on!

Agree or disagree; one must respect the individual who puts his mouth where his money is!

Everyone is speculating, no one outside the investigation knows everything and I doubt even inside the investigation anyone knows all except Mueller. Such investigations are very compartmentalized. They have to be to maintain integrity.

No one knew everything about the Watergate/Nixon investigation until they got the smoking gun with confirmation.....

This is a looong way from over......

Just remember one thing, the grand jury couldn't indict Nixon cause he was a sitting president, but they did secretly name him as an un-indicted co-conspirator. And this was after the first round of guilty pleas.... (but the one consistant thing of all the convictions of watergate, they all had the charge of conspiracy), THAT is the blatant thing that is missing here.

It also makes me wonder if they actually have anything at all as far as Trump is concerned.

I'll be happy to bet 25 or 50, so long as Trump's death doesn't count.

So your working theory is he's going to keep just indicting Flynn? When you are trying to prove a conspiracy, you indict the conspirators for conspiracy. You don't sign plea bargains and not have him plead to a conspiracy. There's almost no situation that could arise where it makes sense to let Flynn walk on a conspiracy charge, if he's conspired with a target.  

Imagine at trial trying to prove a conspiracy involving Flynn with Flynn's failure to admit to being part of the conspiracy. 

I'll be happy to bet 25 or 50, so long as Trump's death doesn't count.

So your working theory is he's going to keep just indicting Flynn? When you are trying to prove a conspiracy, you indict the conspirators for conspiracy. You don't sign plea bargains and not have him plead to a conspiracy. There's almost no situation that could arise where it makes sense to let Flynn walk on a conspiracy charge, if he's conspired with a target.  

Not my theory at all, Sean; If Flynn reneges, he'll go to prison on one indictment/conviction or another. You appear to assume that Mueller wants Flynn … possibly so, but more likely he wants Kushner, Trump, maybe Pence and Sessions.

Imagine at trial trying to prove a conspiracy involving Flynn with Flynn's failure to admit to being part of the conspiracy. 

Flynn can now testify without taking the 5th and can be given immunity with regard to all else if Mueller so decides.

Nowhere Man took the $50.00 but I'll take your $50 as well, Sean.

Agreed, DEATH does not count, ULESS IT'S SUICIDE WHICH WOULD IMPLY "DISGRACE/SHAME"; IMPEACHMENT/DISMISSAL, 25th AMENDMENT, INDICTMENT, RESIGNATION … (No tricky business like a self-pardon … if that scenario is even possible … I'll call that a "bet's off").

Otherwise, you're in … I respect you for taking a definitive stand.

Now the betting window is closed.

I'm in for the 50, I'm betting he serves out his first term...

I have 50 that says trump serves a second term as well 

I have 50 that says trump serves a second term as well

If he makes it through the first term, I'll have lost the current $150.00 in bets I now have with Cerenkov, Nowhere Man and Sean.

Look me up if Trump makes it through the first term and we'll bet on something else.

Look me up if Trump makes it through the first term

he will... count on it. 

my bet includes making it thru the first term as there is no other way to serve a second term

ou appear to assume that Mueller wants Flynn … possibly so, but more likely he wants Kushner, Trump, maybe Pence and Sessions.

No, it's the opposite. IF you want to prove the "big fish" participated in a criminal conspiracy, you get the little fish to admit they participated in the conspiracy too. That's how you prove a conspiracy. Look at Watergate and all the underlings who admitted to being involved in criminal conspiracies as part of their plea agreement. It's very had to show a criminal conspiracy if Trump or whoever can point out that none of the alleged co-conspirators were charged with conspiracy. 

So either Flynn had nothing to do with the criminal conspiracy with Russia and it will be proven with other targets, or no criminal conspiracy with Russia likely existed.

IF Trump goes down, it won't be for conspiring with Russia. 

my bet includes making it thru the first term as there is no other way to serve a second term

Obviously.

OK, Surfs_Up … I'll take your $50.00 …

And now, no exceptions … the window is closed on further bets regarding Trump's first term.

Cerenkov, Nowhere Man, Sean and Surfs_Up.

IF you want to prove the "big fish" participated in a criminal conspiracy, you get the little fish to admit they participated in the conspiracy too.

Admission does not preclude immunity.

An   unindicted co-conspirator , or   unindicted conspirator , is a person or entity that is alleged in an   indictment   to have engaged in   conspiracy , but who is not charged in the same indictment. Prosecutors choose to name persons as unindicted co-conspirators for a variety of reasons including grants of immunity, pragmatic considerations, and evidentiary concerns.

The   United States Attorneys' Manual   generally recommends against naming unindicted co-conspirators, although their use is not generally prohibited by law or policy. ^[1]   Some commentators have raised due-process concerns over the use of unindicted co-conspirators. ^[2]   Although there have been few cases on the subject, the   Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals addressed these concerns in   United States v. Briggs . ^[3]

The term unindicted co-conspirator was familiarized in 1974 when then president   Richard Nixon   was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in indictments stemming from the   Watergate Investigation . Nixon was not indicted due to concerns about whether the   United States Constitution   allowed the indictment of a sitting President (see   Executive privilege ).