At its heart Syria is a vast collection of war crimes masquerading as a civil war.
Syria may be the most complex problem on Earth. Four outside powers, Iran, Russia, Turkey and the United States, control territory or bases; others, like Israel, regularly carry out bombing raids. Even Iraq is waiting in the wings to intervene.
The war began seven years and one month ago, and despite the efforts of two international groupings dealing with Syria , the U.S.-Russian-led Geneva Process and the Astana group of regional rivals, Turkey, Iran and Russia, there’s been no end in sight. The impasse is usually blamed on the obduracy of Syrian President Bashar al Assad.
But at its heart Syria is a vast collection of war crimes masquerading as a civil war.
Shortly after Syrians took to the streets in a national uprising to demand political reform in 2011, Assad went to war against his own people, targeting cities and towns, hospitals and rescue services, mosques, schools and public markets. He directed his security forces to put hundreds of thousands under starvation siege in the Damascus suburbs, blocked the population from medical supplies and repeatedly used chemical weapons, the latest case being in Douma on Saturday.
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Situations like this demonstrate the total failure of the United Nations to achieve it's purpose for existing.
There should have been a massive UN force threatened or sent to Syria to end this "civil war". Particularly once it became clear that Assad was a mass murdering war criminal. That was about 4 years ago, by the way. But the UN is factions and can never act nobly with consensus.
Agreed, the United Nations has utterly failed here (as in other operations). The use of chmical weapons against his own population should be grounds for taking him out or at the very least, havingthe U.N. and the World Court referring charges of genocide.
taking him out or at the very least, havingthe U.N. and the World Court referring charges of genocide.
I've been wondering why this happened yet
taking him out or at the very least, havingthe U.N. and the World Court referring charges of genocide.
I've been wondering why this happened yet.
My guess is that the UN may take action soon. Because usually when something like this happens in any Arab country they will somehow find a way... to pass a resolution...condemning Israel!
The use of chmical weapons against his own population should be grounds for taking him out or at the very least, havingthe U.N. and the World Court referring charges of genocide.
But remember, Syria is an Arab country-- so it ain't gonna happen.
(And jut as the UN focuses in criticism on Israel wwhile thy don't take acion in Syria-- they also tend to be negligernt when it comes to atrocities elsewhere in the Arab world:
Houthis execute ‘thousands’ in two days: UN’s Yemen envoy
SANAA/NEW YORK: Yemeni militias on Wednesday dispersed a protest in Sanaa staged by dozens of women demanding the handover of the body of slain former President Ali Abdullah Saleh for burial.
“There is no god but Allah and the martyr is a friend of Allah,” the women shouted in front of the Saleh Mosque, named after the former president, and the largest in the capital.
Al-Yamani said Houthi militants have executed “thousands” of people in the past two days, adding that there is an agreement to evacuate UN humanitarian workers from Sanaa in light of recent developments.
Note: In the current brutal civil war in Yemen, Houthi rebels (Shia ) are attempting to overthrow Yemen's Sunni government. Without the arms Iran is supplying to the rebels, the war would've ended long ago,,,
This all sounds familiar for some reason, I'm thinking Libya, the same shit was going on there for decades and, nothing was done during all that time until about four years ago.
Yet the 'removal' of Gaddafi left a void, the Libyan 'rebels' were left to their own devises after the US and 'coalition' walked away - the removal of Assad would have caused a even larger vacuum, that the US government would most likely have turned its backs on as 'we' did Iraq when Daesh was still in its infancy? Regime change is something the US is not very successful in doing - yet 'we' still think 'we' are anointed as 'regime changers'...
You have made my point for me, thanx.
Welcome?
Just providing details of something that I find frustrating about my beloved countries government, their selective indignation and regime change superiority complex ... 'we' have broken so many countries, after which 'we' expend major energy to find a way out of and justify being there in the first place..
Half the problem with the ME, has to do with the 'spoils of war' and the remapping done by the UK - with NO consideration given to the people/citizens of the Empire.
Done preaching : )
I've been saying for years, the factions in the ME are like a Hydra, you cut off one head and, two spring up in its place. We have gone in there since the end of WWII trying to turn a tribal order of life into a democracy, it ain't going to happen. Most of the people who live there are Nomads, they're use to traveling from area to area because that is what they've done for thousands of years and, we want them to settle in one area and, stay put, yeah, sure.
This all sounds familiar for some reason, I'm thinking Libya, the same shit was going on there for decades and, nothing was done during all that time until about four years ago.
And then there were the widespread massacres in Algeria-- although most people never heard of that either (granted it was some time ago).
The "politically correct" thing to do in the U.S. (and the Arab world) is to blame everything on the European past colonial powers, the U.S....or best of all to blame everything on Israel. And/or minimize conflict whe nits caused by the Arabs themselves.
My dad talked about his time in North Africa during WWII very little but, what he did say was that the factions, (tribes) in the area were very territorial and, some actually supported the Italians and, the Germans, it was hard to tell who was who in the fighting, who supported what side, sometimes he said they switched in the middle of the fighting because they met up with relatives on the other side. This is part of the problem in the region, the other part is family or, tribal feuds that no one remembers what caused them but, everyone fights in it.
This is part of the problem in the region, the other part is family or, tribal feuds that no one remembers what caused them but, everyone fights in it.
Yes, its the tribalism-- and the need to fight "The Other".
Most of the people don't identify with their country, but rather the older identities, that existed long before America or Israel were created.... And that's the real cause of most of these wars (although of course its more "politically correct " in the west to blame Israel.. or the U.S. ...or the "colonial powers" (England, France mostly-- even though they haven't had colonies there for a long time).
Most identitfy as Muslims-- so may feel they must fight non-Muslims.
But if there are no non-Muslims around, the Shia Muslims fight the Sunni Muslims. (And even amongst the Shia, for example-- if they're no Sunnis to fight they go to another difference. Some other sect of Shiism-- and so on). The Kurds are Sunnis-- but Sunnis can fight them because even though both groups are Sunnis, The Kurds are not Arabs (they are a different ethnic group-- Kurds). And so it goes...
It's the same BS that we have with the Christians, only a little milder.
It's the same BS that we have with the Christians, only a little milder.
Good point!
Yes-- Assad is not nearly as vile as the Christians.
As far as we know, Syria's Assad has only perpetrated only two massive poison gas attacks on Syrians-- where as American Christians perpetrate even worse attacks on Americans using gas and other banned WMD's almost every week or so! 
My guide to the early ME is "The Ottoman Empire 1700 - 1922" Second Edition by Donald Quataert, very fascinating text book : ) a timeline starting in the 1400's is provided as well (I am a timeline enthusiast : ) .. although the Empire was rather secular in nature, the whole of the Ottoman Empire was forged by war between nomadic sectarian tribes claiming 'space'.... and it still continues today and not just in the Middle East!!! Syria was a key component of the Ottoman Empire - and is still key today (prime real estate to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran .. etc)
Sectarianism
Sectarianism, like racism, is a form of bigotry, discrimination, or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion, nationalism, class, regional or factions of a political movement.
-Wikipedia
I guess I should have flipped that statement, the Christians are milder about their attacks on other Christians than the people in the ME are on themselves.
The 'beginning' of Syrian 'Civil War' was excused as a 'Arab Spring' spill over.. foreign fighters poured into Syria via Turkey and were praised as being rebels / Free Syrian Army. The peasants revolt / rose up (is the theory) against Assad, in order to 'take their country back'(?) Assad must go! was the chant from Saudi Arabia, EU and the United States etc - send money, arm rebels (which of whom NO one knew who they even were)...
The United States encouraged / allowed the violation of Syria's sovereignty while ignoring the slaughter of the Syrian people - redlines and threats 'if chemical weapons are used again" blah blah ... Through inaction the US and others gave Syria to Russia, Turkey and Iran - at the same time giving Iraq to Iran (rather scary when the US wants Russia and Iran to step up to the plate while the US buries their head in the sand over Daesh...)
Iran is trying to establish themselves along the Israeli border - thus far Russia/Putin has kept Iran in check, not allowing them to fulfill their agenda... so far it would appear that Russia is tamping down Turkey's agenda as well - Erdogan would love nothing more than to be the ruler of the 'new' Ottoman empire....
Where was the indignation over the events happening is Syria several years ago? upwards of 500k have been slaughtered, millions have fled - yet now Syria means something to the US (the rest of the world?)?? Or does the resent "Ooo my gosh, look what is happening in Syria" have to do with Russia being there?
I shake my head, I have been screaming and stomping my feet over Syria since the beginning ... yet the 'world' .. the UN (even after millions fled) are more worried about the Palestinians being mistreated by Israel. Young children in Syria have been eating grass for years - and now, now(?) things need attention?
Thanks for letting me rant!!!!
Basically what the Syrian "Civil War" is is part of an age old sectarian conflict...Shia vs Sunni. It flares up from time to time in various guises.
And is so often the case, it aggravated when other countries jump in to assist the side they prefer. In this case:
1. Shia side: Syria's dictator Assad (He's the one using the poison gas here). Assisted by a major Shia country (Iran). And a Shia terror group (Hezb'Allah). And then,for its own reasons, they are assisted by an ouitside non-Muslim power (Russia).
2.Sunni Side: Syrian Sunnis; assisted by a major Sunni power (Saudi Arabia). And Sunni terror groups (ISIS and al Nusra). And a non-Arab country (Turkey).
The "Neutrals": (See next comment).
("Neutrals, cot'd from previous comment):
1. The Kurds. They only want peace and to end the occupation of their ancestral homelands (as was promised by The Treaty of Sevres-- but the major powers sold them out). They are actually mainly Muslims- Sunni. But moderates, certainly not interested in going on any jihad against their neighbours who have with different religious views.
They are probably the only group that is fighting the bad guys on both sides in this conflict (because groups on both side attack them. Turkey even bombs their villages but of course we don't hear about that much).
2. Israel. They have a more pressing problem than attempting regime change is Syria. The Palestinians constantly try to find ways to exterminate them. And the Lebanese terror group Hizb'Allah is right across the border (when they are not meddling in other country's affairs). H. has a YUGE arsenal of missiles in lebanon...aimed at Israel-- and support from Iran and Russia. For the last few years Israel has launched a small number of airstrikes against Assad-- when he is receiving shipments of advanced Russian weapons. (Whichever side "wins" the Syrian Civil War, they will be enemies of Israel who wish to destroy it).
3. The U.S: We talk loudly but carry a tiny stick! Both Obama and Trump have issued dire warnings against the brutality of the Assad regime, drawn red lines, etc-- but haven't taken any meaningful action. And we've screwed over the Kurds by not given them adequate arms and support).
Morning Krishna
From my reading, things are quite complicated, yet Russia and Israel have improved relations between the 2 countries - Russia has issued warning to Israel against attacking Iran in Syria, at the same time Russia is preventing Iran from settling in south of Damascus.
Scary as it sounds, since Russia was 'let into' the ME ('we' armed rebels (Osama) against the 'Soviets' in Afghanistan during the 80's for a reason) .. now Russia needs to stay in order to exert influence/control over these various governments/countries (that have gained power) against Israel (Russia was welcomed into Syria, the US government through inaction invited Russia in. Putin waited a long time before intervening in Syria. Now, 'we' cannot tell Russia how to play the game without having a conflict/war with Russia) - my opinion
Side note:
The Kurds deserve to have their own homeland and independence...
It's not our problem, and we can offer no effective solutions. Pull our people out of there and let the UN sort if out. Why should the US get into a shooting match with Russia?
It's not our problem, and we can offer no effective solutions.
This part I disagree with, for one thing we have armed the ME with our weapons of war so, it became our problem.
Why should the US get into a shooting match with Russia?
We shouldn't but, it might not be our choice to make.
We already are if you think about it....
This part I disagree with, for one thing we have armed the ME with our weapons of war so, it became our problem.
Correct. And while we armed them,...countries such as Russia and Iran would never, ever do anything like that!!!
countries such as Russia and Iran would never, ever do anything like that!!!
I have never said that, in fact I've said the opposite, we armed Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and, a few other ME country's while Russia is responsible for Syria, Libya and, the rest of the ones we didn't arm.
As far as what I have read and what hubs tells me, we are essentially at war with Russia through Syria (Proxy war). We have sent warships and other ships over and Russia tells us "you mussant doooo dat"(I can say it like that.... my grandfather use to tell me the same thing, and he's Czech). I think Trump told Russia to GTFOOD......right? He gave them a heads up because of casualties, right? Am I missing something?
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Indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets terrorized 12 million of the 23 million people of Syria into fleeing their homes, five million of them seeking refuge abroad. In the memorable phrase of Gen. Philip Breedlove, the U.S. NATO commander in 2016, Assad and his Russian backers were deliberately “weaponizing” Syrian migrants in a bid to destabilize and undermine the European Union.
Assad labeled his political opponents terrorists even as he linked up with terror groups such as the Lebanese Hezbollah, Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Kurdistan Workers Party and ceded big swaths of territory to ISIS with hardly a fight. Now he’s turning over bases to Russia and Iran and allowing Iran to establish a land corridor to the Mediterranean.
The heart of the regime’s terror tactics against civilians is its Air Force. Since 2014, it has used its helicopters to drop barrel bombs—unguided containers full of explosives and shrapnel and sometimes crude chemical weapons. Its force of fixed-wing warplanes has been augmented since September 2015 by the Russian Air Force. Because relatively few young Syrian men (certainly almost none from the Sunni sect that constituted to 70 percent of the population in 2011) want to fight for the Syrian regime, it has had to rely heavily on militias organized and led by Iranian commanders. What’s tipped the military balance in the regime’s favor is its air power.
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If the war isn’t halted, millions more civilians will remain in jeopardy. Daraa, where the Syrian revolution began in 2011, is now apparently the next target in the regime’s sights. Then there’s Idlib, a northern province swollen to a population of more than 2 million, increasing daily by residents forced out of Eastern Ghouta. Civilians in Idlib are targets almost daily of regime and Russian bombing.
There’s also the possibility that Syria will ignite a regional war. Iran’s stated goal of forging a land corridor to facilitate the delivery of arms to Hezbollah in Lebanon, coupled with plans to settle large numbers of Iranians linked with the IRGC in Syria, already is seen by Israel as a severe threat.
The horizon is bleak. The U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, in a report issued in mid-March, declared a “cataclysmic failure” by the International Community in Syria. It also produced an posted a series of videos , some of which are embedded here, that illustrate all too well the horrors the Assad regime has imposed on its people. “At a moment when we see an unprecedented risk of further atrocities," wrote the authors of the museum's report, "we believe that the