Trump Lives in 'Alternative Reality', Believes Election Fraud: Filmmaker
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Then-President Donald Trump speaks during a meeting in the Oval Office with, from left, then-Vice President Mike Pence, then-Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, and then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, on July 20, 2020. AP Photo/Evan Vucci
- Filmmaker Alex Holder says Donald Trump lives in an "alternative reality."
- He said the former president apparently genuinely believes his election fraud claims.
- Holder was filming Trump for a documentary around the time of the insurrection.
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Former President Donald Trump likely believes his groundless claims the election in 2020 was stolen from him because he lives in an "alternative reality," documentary maker Alex Holder said.
Holder was filming Trump in the months surrounding his defeat in the 2020 election, culminating in the attack on the Capitol by supporters that was fueled by Trump's false claims the election had been stolen from him.
In an interview with UK newspaper The Daily Telegraph, Holder said that Trump seemed to genuinely believe his claims. This is despite having been told by top officials, including then Attorney General Bill Barr, that they were groundless, and seeing them rejected in a series of court cases.
"He believed in his own lie. He had absolutely convinced himself that he had actually won, and that all the things he was saying prior [to the election] came true, that actually there was some malfeasance," Holder said.
"I'm not a psychiatrist. But my take was this is not a rational player. Barr had said there was no issue. A few days later he is going on and on to me about how there's no way President Biden got 80 million votes, and that he needed to find brave judges, and they're not courageous enough to intervene."
"So he lives in an alternate reality, and engaging in that is foolhardy. It's just like talking to a brick wall."
Holder added: "I was thinking it was absolutely terrifying. The sitting President of the United States, in the diplomatic reception room at the White House, with the guy with the nuclear football outside the room, and this guy is clearly somebody who is living in an alternate reality.
"That somebody you're unable to converse with in a rational manner is in charge of the United States of America was astonishing."
Holder's footage was subpoenaed by the January 6 committee, and the filmmaker has been interviewed by the panel about his interactions with the Trump family during the period around the Capitol riot.
His claims about Trump's state of mind after his defeat echo those from some aides to the president, with Barr in a recent book saying that Trump became "detached from reality" after his election defeat.
The issue of whether Trump believed his fraud claims or deployed them cynically in the hope of retaining office could be crucial to his future.
Potential criminal charges could rest on Trump's state of mind, and in his defense Trump has said that he was acting sincerely to address concerns he considers legitimate.
Trump's belief in the election-fraud claims may not be definitive, however, as the January 6 committee has also sought to argue that even if Trump did not know his claims were false, he should have.
Holder has released footage from his film on Twitter, showing Trump fixating on where a glass of water was placed ahead of an interview.
Holder has denied Trump's claims he had broken their filming agreement, and his documentary is due to be shown on the Discover+.
More evidence Trump and his deadenders are Qrazy!
I do not buy for a second that Trump believes his nonsense. What I do believe is that Trump has learned to double, triple, quadruple down on his lies because the more confident he appears to be when he lies to people the more they begin to believe he might have something.
After all what kind of a mind would make such outrageous claims if he had ... nothing ...?
Trump's defense is he believes he was cheated.
If he knows he's lying it makes it more criminal!
He has no evidence; he either knows he is lying or he is mentally ill. IMO he is crazy as a fox.
This goes back a long ways. Trump has been quoted as saying, "never admit your wrong and never admit you lost". That's all he is doing now.
He knows he is lying.
Of course he does. As you and I have both noted, lying with conviction and never backing down is how Trump rolls; he has been doing this his entire career.
that always seems to work on those most susceptible to a cult ...
Indeed it does. Trump uses this tactic because it works. There are all sorts of effective tactics one can use if one does not give a shit about honesty and integrity (we see this daily by some).
Pathological liars are thing unto themselves and I believe Trump is an idiot savant among pathological liars.
It should not matter to us whether inside the black box that is Trump's brain he believes this or that. We need to protect ourselves from him permanently either way.
Trump to a T. He plays the simple minded with a 'gift', that makes him dangerous as noted by the film maker, and ANY other THINKING individual. For posters, and any others, to even consider this POS, is just unbelievable. After witnessing SO FCKN MUCH, this disturbed mental midget full of the tallest tales, that he can apparently wag right out of his asz, and his flockers tell him, how good they smell, and they are the Tallest Tales, cause little hands, down his pantz, on fire, as his ship sailed through Stormy Daniels to pay another playmate, while hating War Heroes and bashing GoldStar Parents, cause like beatiful women, everybody just let him grab their support, like they were 'pussys', for the taking asz he praised HATE Groups while pleasuring Putin, with Russian only Press Conferences from OUR White House where he revealed Top Secret Info, after taking Putins' 'genius' words over OUR Intelligence Agencies, contradicting his infectious disease experts on same stage during same briefing, and then making 'Perfect Calls' to Zelensky and Georgian and Arizonian election officials, "suggesting" they do him little favors. Then, after LOSING, he plans and organizes a fckn Coo Coo Ca Chew flew the Coup de ta while LYING the entire time to constituency surely blind cause the guy is not fit to run for office, and never has been, but fools bought into the Rushkies and the :righties:, as he enjoyed yellow tightie whities, while looking for a White Stripe on his Jack Black and Brown underwear he wore on his head, like a hat, he scooped right up like he would his pussy, so he could be the Cat in The Hat that couldn't get wet while in Europe to honor our fallen soldiers, as he tried to bury 'Shithole" countries in his desert sand boxes all while describing 'Mirages' to his gleeful puppy parade panting heavy from deciphering for the rest of US , what again, Trump actually meant, after Trump already had stated.
He knows, and he knew 'right' from 'wrong', why else would he surround himself with 'Yes' men and women, because he didn't realize what 'WRONG' was ?? PLEASE he is just one big sleaze , and a contagious disease that some are finally becoming aware of and immune to, thanks to the ingesting of Lysol after the LIAR in Chief consumed enough and portrayed so many a bluff, was enough to make H R PuffN Stuff believe he had tripped into Trumpy's pseudo reality of faux 'news' and Laser Shooting Jews, as he banged Pornstars in the Churches' pews, while robbing the coffers with nothing to sneeze at, as he blew all he didn't knose with his tiny tiny handskerchief , cause what a Commander in Chief
Trump is an extreme narcissist and sociopath. He will believe literally anything, and do anything, before admitting that he is wrong.
He will say anything to get his way. Liars do not need to believe their lies; in fact, knowing they are making falsehoods is the definition of lying.
I do not buy the notion that Trump believes the profoundly stupid allegations he makes about election fraud.
But narcissists generally do, since they are psychologically unable to believe they are wrong.
Ozzwald, do you believe that Trump, after watching his baseless allegations fail over and over and being advised that his conspiracy theories were bullshit believed he won the election? And now, after all this time, he still believes this utter nonsense?
If so, that is not mere narcissism, that is delusional disorder; that is mental illness.
I do not buy it. This is quintessential Trump. He has made a career out of lying to get his way. He has learned that if he lies with enough perceived conviction and does so long enough that people will acquiesce and he will get his way.
Doesn't matter what I believe, in this case it only matters what can be proven in court beyond a shadow of doubt.
Roughly 30% of republicans believe it, so why not him? He is dumb enough to believe his own lies.
Narcissism already is a mental illness.
Except that, even after he is proven to be wrong, over and over, he continues with the SAME lies over and over. He does not change the lies after they've been proven wrong, he keeps repeating the same ones, or despite all the video evidence he will deny saying them at all. That is not the action of a professional liar, that is the action of someone that convinces himself of the lie first.
Not guilty by reason of insanity?
You can insist that Trump actually believes his own bullshit that, based on zero supporting evidence and against overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that he actually won the election, but your insistence does not persuade me.
Mental illness does not necessarily mean he can make the insanity plea. He DOES know the difference between right and wrong. His document burning and attempts to tamper with witnesses show that.
Not "insisting" anything of the sort. Just saying that there is evidence showing him going either way, and it is not impossible that he believes his own lies.
No, he knows he lost the election, and he has admitted it in private according to several people. But does he believe there was election fraud despite no evidence? Maybe. 1/3 of republicans believe it with no evidence. His narcissism requires him to come up with a reason, since it will not even allow him to contemplate that he lost fair and square.
There is a profound difference between Trump sycophants believing their hero and Trump believing his own bullshit.
Trump invented his Big Lie from whole cloth. He is not blindly following an authority … he dreamed this up in his mind and then proceeded to sell it. This is Trump being Trump but on a scale of lying that I did not think even he was capable.
Trump knows damn well what he is doing; he is following the same playbook he has used for decades.
Because his sycophants are actually smarter than Trump is?
He was interviewed by Leslie Stahl in 2016, before the election, where he 1st brought forth his election fraud claim. He actually told her during the interview that if he lost, it was because Hillary cheated.
I disagree, this lie, like most of his others are childish in nature. Just because he has so many republican lawmakers going along with it, doesn't make it a particularly intelligent lie.
Trump's history of lies, pretty much consisted of him lying about how good, powerful, smart, rich he is.
Yes, the Trump playbook. He lies without any evidence.
Where do I suggest that his lies are intelligent?? I stated that his Big Lie is outrageous even by Trump standards. And you disagree? Which lie by Trump beats his Big Lie?
Yes. Why did you type this? I do not see what point you are trying to make given what you responded to.
Then I misinterpreted when you talked about the scale of his lies. I thought you were talking quality not quantity.
Yes, Trump's "Big Lie" is not outrageous by Trump standards. It was expected and even childish.
"Mommy, Billy cheated!!!"
None, they are all equally infantile.
Trump's narcissism is what makes him lie non-stop, he cannot accept even the thought of him not being always right about everything. His narcissism is also what makes him believe, to one degree or another, those lies.
Trump cannot accept any mistakes by himself, each and every time he comes up with an excuse. Does he believe those excuses? Yes, I believe he does, he refuses to see the ridiculousness behind those excuses, because he would then have to admit (even to himself) that he was WRONG.
I was talking about the outrageousness of the lies. On a scale of outrageousness, his Big Lie is king.
Good grief.
Okay, you believe Trump buys his own bullshit.
I do not for a second.
No point simply repeating this.
So we disagree. His "Big Lie", I feel, is nothing more than equivalent to 2 children playing a game, and at the end Donny exclaims "I did not lose, you cheated." before storming off to pout.
His "Big Lie" would not be BIG if not for the republican party backing up and supporting the known lie. If not for all those cowardly republican politicians, his "Big Lie" would be nothing more than another childish tantrum thrown by Trump. THEY are responsible for the outrageous size that it has become.
Not what I said. Or at least a twisting of what I said.
Trump's narcissism is a mental disease, that disease does not allow him to accept any fault or responsibility. That disease causes him to see the world through distorted glasses where he is universally adored (by those that count, i.e. "smart people") and all his decisions are correct. Everything else is either ignored/forgotten, denied (despite video evidence), or failed because of someone else's fault.
Any normal sane person would be exactly as you describe him.
A separate example would be racists. Most racists do not consider themselves to be racists. They feel that they see a truth that other people cannot see. I have a friend that I consider racist, but the few times I have talked to him about it, he always points out conspiracy theories, and other typical complaints. He refuses to look at the big picture, instead only concentrating on small, one off, exceptions claiming them to be the norm.
An outrageous lie need not be believed to be outrageous. It is outrageous to declare that our election was rigged based on no evidence and in direct contradiction of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The lie is outrageous where outrageous = " Wildly exaggerated or improbable ." Nobody should believe the Big Lie.
Now, his Big Lie would have had no effect if the GoP supporters had rejected it. But they did not and many continue to support the Big Lie. The support does not make the Big Lie outrageous (the lie itself does that), but the support gives it teeth.
Let's just go back to the start:
Either you hold that Trump believes his own bullshit (believes his Big Lie) or you do not. I personally do not for a second think Trump believes his Big Lie. My position is that he is intentionally pushing this rigged election nonsense because he has learned (in his lifetime) that one can sometimes get people to believe his bullshit if he say it often enough and with sufficient conviction.
In short, I see Trump as a lying, cheating con-man who continues to intentionally and falsely claim the election was rigged because doing so spares his ego and helps his defense against criminal charges.
Whatever you believe is your choice.
You haven't read what I wrote. Trump's mental disease forces him to believe that nothing is his fault. That includes the election loss.
Ditto.
I would change the sentence to:
"who's ego continues to intentionally and falsely claim the election was rigged because doing so is the only way his mental disease of narcissism allows him to deal with his loss."
And you yours.
Yes I did. I read every word in every comment you have made in this thread.
I do not buy that Trump believes his own bullshit because of his narcissism (and any other mental disease he has).
We are repeating the same basic arguments. Ergo my closing sentence.
GOP Rep. Kinzinger publishes 'unhinged' voicemail threats left by Trump supporters
Since joining nine other House Republicans, including Jan. 6 committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney of Wyoming, in voting to impeach Trump in 2021 for incitement of insurrection, Kinzinger has been a constant target of online vitriol. On Tuesday, Kinzinger released a compilation of threatening voicemail messages left by apparent Trump supporters.
Audio of the profanity-laced messages is preceded by a warning that reads: "Disclaimer: You are about to hear real voicemails and phone calls directed to the Office of Congressman Adam Kinzinger (IL-16). This video includes foul language and threats of violence. Viewer discretion is advised. Keep in mind all voicemails and phone calls are received by my interns, high school or college level, attempting to learn about the legislative process."
"Gonna come protest in front of your house this weekend. We know where your family is and we're going to get you, you little c***sucker," another man says, adding, "Gonna get your wife, gonna get your kids."
"You're going to swing for f***ing treason, you communist f***," a third caller tells the congressman.
As his tweets on Tuesday show, the deluge of criticism hasn't stopped Kinzinger from speaking out against Trump and the mob of his supporters who attempted to block the peaceful transfer of power to Joe Biden on Jan. 6.
Kinzinger, who is not seeking reelection this year, regularly engages his fellow Republicans on social media , as he did on Monday when he retweeted House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy's initial reaction to the Capitol riot.
Agreed. Good talk, but we have reached an impasse on this.
Even moreso astonishing is a British filmmaker has to come in and get the scoop on the U.S. president's state of consciousness. That our media could not 'own' this wretched man, without a foreigner from the outside is well, pathetically astonishing. Republicans created space in their party for a deluded president; the nation created space for a Brit, an outsider, to come in a see our very own madman at work!
Tony Schwartz, "The Art of the Deal" ghostwriter for Donald Trump, informed us all in 2015 about Donald Trump's "truthful hyperbole" and Donald Trump upon winning the 2016 republican primaries took to a microphone and warned up with his repeat of The SNAKE (Al Wilson -singer 1968):
Trump reads "The Snake" poem
So the snake turns out to be a man, not a beast, but still a monster who lies so much that he/it can not tell what is real and error! And that, ladies and gentlemen, is who/what our nation granted power to lead the foremost country in the world almost to its end.
Donald Trump is a self-absorbed man. As a result, and of course, he surrounds himself with self-absorbed people who must see the world of "possibilities" as he sees them. That is, rules are for chump and little men. Not men such as he and those he places as "lieutenants."
Oh yeah! This is his freakin super power. A lot of us have known this for a long time. He says how he wishes things were, and that wish becomes reality for him. He does it constantly.
Psychologically, if it didn’t impact so many lives, it would make for fascinating study. All of us do this in tiny ways on rare occasions. For example, we all say “it’s going to be all right” even though we have no control over a situation or don’t even actually believe it. Such talk can comfort the sick or the worried, and we think of it as a compassionate and harmless gesture.
But Trump does it all day long, every day - for himself. However, it’s not compassionate; it’s selfish. And not only does he believe his fantasies. So do lots of other people. No matter how ridiculous it is. So it does extensive harm.
So Trump lives in an alternate reality. WTF is wrong with the other three guys in this picture? Or the millions who voted for the man living in the alternate reality? Its not new, Trump has been living in an alternate reality of diseased narcissism for decades.
They're yes men. Dutiful lieutenants letting the 'devil' do the dirty work because he (Trump) has the clout to sustain the political push-back!
I remember once hearing in an interview or rally Trump uttering he is fully okay with 'faking it until you make it.' That is, remember he used to call using a fake persona to get and place interview subject matter about . . . himself into the stream of media consciousness.
Each time the tactic: 'faking it until you make it.' works for Donald - it reinforces itself as the way to go next time around!
Subsequently, it is up to society to call him out on it and do so by simply saying, "Not this time, Donald!" We simply are not going along with your plan for us this time. Nice try-no thanks. (And shut the political door in Trump's face!)
Seems like some still obsess about him......fearing he'll run again
Trump Save America Rally Schedule
Former GOP House aide says Trump is likely to announce his 2024 presidential run soon because he 'has the impulse control of a freaking toddler'
Kurt Bardella, a former House GOP staffer, says Trump is likely to announce his 2024 campaign soon.
"This guy has the impulse control of a freaking toddler," Bardella told MSNBC .
Trump has been facing harsh criticism over the revelations that emerged from the January 6 hearings.
That's not really the problem, it's the bevy of enablers who faun over him and try to accomplish the petulant child's every whim even if it means organizing a violent insurrection in order to make the cry-baby sore loser toddler happy. "Trumpy want his binky? Does Trumpy want his seditious binky so he can keep throwing tantrums in the oval office? Okay, there you go, we'll try to help you poor wittle baby that everyone is just being so mean to. Tell us who made you cry and we'll punish them, okay wittle Trumpy?"...
Trump loves two types of people, those gullible morons who grovel before him and lick his disgusting fat toes and those who pretend he's not a threat to democracy and keep deflecting with claims that it's all in his opponents minds and that it's delusional to believe he still means anything to the Republican party or that he'd try to run for office again and anyone complaining about such a leaky sack of human shit must be suffering from TDS.
Nice little rant.
However, you are woke so you must be a communist or a godless heathen, therefore even though you are correct, you will be ignored by MAGA, the worst human pestilence this country has ever endured outside of slavery.
Donald Trump trades on a theme. That is, to get his way he looks for a weak spot or 'suspicion' and then like a good builder pounds away at it. You can even see it happening here on NT, for example. Mention Donald Trump and instead of the usual suspect commenters dealing with the commentary-the comback is 'robotic': TDS or Trump is not the subject or Trump is out of office. Or some such formatted construction.
In the case of the 2020 election cycle. Trump's theme (false claim) is this: Red states secretaries of state in charge of voting should not have made allowances for mail-in ballots due to the Covid-19 pandemic. That is, no provisions or legal rules changes should have been made in the states to keep people from going out (in a pandemic environment around other people) to access voting.
That is the gist of Trump's argument and once he established the above as a theme: He has been pounding it every sense.
In the past he did the same over Obama's birth certificate (theme-pound). His campaign against his campaign primary opponents (theme-pound). Hillary Clinton has a secret server destroyed with bleach (theme-pound). Elections (he loses) are rigged (theme-pound). And of course, 2020 election was illegal/rigged/votes counted that should not have been counted (they should have and were counted (theme-pounded).
Sounds more like a demolisher than a builder.
Exactly. But that appears to be why his right wing religious conservative sycophants elected him and continue to support him, because they want to demolish our nation that they don't see catering to their needs any more. They want to demolish the establishment, destroy partnerships with foreign allies, wreck the EPA, reduce the power of the FDA and the CDC, remove oversight and consumer protections so corporations can make more profits and maybe trickle some down their leg to these poorly educated deplorable peons. The only thing Trump built during his presidency was a few miles of pointless wall along the border that could be defeated with a $45 ladder from Home Depot, everything else he tried to destroy at his rabid cultist followers and greedy corporate donors behest.
Inside Trump's mind? What he believes? He believes nothing. His mind is fraught with anger, fear and denial.
As a man he is cornered, but without integrity, stamina, truth or honor. Is this why the christian grifters support him?