Poll: Biden approval hits new low as more Americans say they would vote for Trump

  
Via:  John Russell  •  2 months ago  •  126 comments

By:   Andrew Romano·West Coast CorrespondentJune 17, 2022, 5:00 AM·3 min read (YahooNews)

Poll: Biden approval hits new low as more Americans say they would vote for Trump
As inflation keeps rising and recession fears loom, a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows that Joe Biden is currently in the worst shape of his presidency.

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As inflation keeps rising and recession fears loom, a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows that Joe Biden is currently in the worst shape of his presidency.

The survey of 1,541 U.S. adults, which was conducted from June 10-13, found that if another presidential election were held today, more registered voters say they would cast ballots for Donald Trump (44%) than for Biden (42%) — even though the House Jan. 6 committee has spent the last week linking Trump to what it called a "seditious conspiracy" to overturn the 2020 election and laying the groundwork for possible criminal prosecution.

President Biden outside the White House on Tuesday. (Stefani Reynolds/AFP via Getty Images)

Since Biden took office, no previous Yahoo News/YouGov poll has shown him trailing Trump (though Biden's most recent leads have been within the margin of error, like this one is for Trump). One year ago, Biden led Trump by 9 percentage points. In 2020, Biden won the White House by more than 7 million votes.

Yet Biden's job approval rating has been atrophying for much of the last year, and the new survey shows that it has never been weaker. A full 56% of Americans now disapprove of the president's performance — the highest share to date — while just 39% approve. Three weeks ago, those numbers were 53% and 42%, respectively.

On average, Biden's job approval scores are now a few points worse than Trump's were at the parallel stage of his presidency.

Among all Americans, Trump (43%) now has a higher personal favorability rating than Biden (40%) as well. Meanwhile, nearly two-thirds of independents (64%) have an unfavorable opinion of Biden, and just 28% say they would vote for him over Trump.

The bad news for Biden comes as prices continue to increase at the fastest pace in 40 years, upending expectations and overshadowing other concerns. According to the poll, 40% of registered voters (up from 33% last month) now say inflation is "the most important issue to you when thinking about this year's election" — more than four times the number for any other issue.

Politically, this is crippling for Biden. A full 61% of voters disapprove of the president's handling of the economy (up from 58% last month), and Republicans now hold a 15-point advantage among voters on the question of which party would do a better job handling the economy (up from 11 points last month).

In recent days, a series of stories questioning whether Biden will run for reelection in 2024 — and quoting concerned Democratic sources — have surfaced in the press. The concern isn't limited to party officials. Just 21% of Americans — down from 25% three weeks ago, and the lowest number to date — say Biden should run again. But perhaps more strikingly, a greater share of 2020 Biden voters now say he shouldn't run again (40%) than say he should (37%). Last month, those numbers were reversed.

In contrast, a clear majority of Trump voters (57%) say Trump should mount another bid. Just 21% say he shouldn't. And while 57% of independents say Trump shouldn't try to make a comeback in 2024, far more — a full 76% — say the same about Biden.

______________

The Yahoo News survey was conducted by YouGov using a nationally representative sample of 1,541 U.S. adults interviewed online from June 10 to 13, 2022. This sample was weighted according to gender, age, race and education based on the American Community Survey, conducted by the U.S. Bureau of the Census, as well as 2020 presidential vote (or nonvote) and voter registration status. Respondents were selected from YouGov's opt-in panel to be representative of all U.S. adults. The margin of error is approximately 2.9%.


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 months ago

America, sadly, is a degraded nation from what many of us grew up with. It is understandable that many people have turned against Biden, the economic condition is usually placed in the presidents lap whether he is responsible for it or not. 

What is utterly depressing is so many people continuing to say they would vote for Trump. 

As the Jan 6th committee has made clear, Trump is a traitor to the United States, a conspiracy nut, and someone who is detached from day to day reality. 

We have been massively failed by the mainstream media, which is insistent on "both sides-ism" , which has allowed Trump to escape the harshest criticisms of his bizarre and illegal actions. 

One has to be fearful for the future of our country. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
We have been massively failed by the mainstream media, which is insistent on "both sides-ism" , which has allowed Trump to escape the harshest criticisms of his bizarre and illegal actions. 

Is that supposed to be a joke?  The media has screwed Trump and covered for Biden all the way. The only thing that is turning the leftist media against Biden is that it is clear that he could never win another election.

We all told you this day would come.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    2 months ago

If Donald Trump is elected president in 2024 it is the end of America as we know it. Something may continue, but it will no longer be an honorable place, we will be the all time laughing stock of the world (in terms of democracies), and the rule of law will have died. 

For what? 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 months ago

and the rule of law will have died. 

The rule of law is on life support. Killing it has been a goal of progressives and progressive da's. Killing a couple cops by a guy that should have been in jail is just the latest example.   Thank God people have had enough and are finally fighting back. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 months ago

Too bad yours is a minority viewpoint John.

I love it when liberals/progressives here tell me I’m not honorable or patriotic simply because I don’t goose-step exactly to their crazed narratives.

It’s amusing in a sad kinda way. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.1.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 months ago
If Donald Trump is elected president in 2024 it is the end of America as we know it.

You're right.  The America we know is rife with illegal immigration problems, a shitty economy and liberal failures.  By all appearances, this Dumpster Fire administration is continuing with Biden's record as being a failure.

To top that off the focus of the Democrats and the Biden Dumpster Fire isn't even on those problems.  Their focus is continuing the hissy fit that Trump did something they can't prove.

we will be the all time laughing stock of the world (in terms of democracies), and the rule of law will have died. 

Yeah, you need to pay closer attention.  World leaders knew in November 2020 that a weak leader was put in the WH and they are taking full advantage of it.  Especially after the failed retreat from Afghanistan under Biden's watch (and order). 

And the rule of law?  The alphabet agencies and Democrats blew that in 2017 when they were "investigating" Trump (and come up empty).  You remember that don't you?  Where the FBI altered documents sent to FISA judges to get warrants?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 months ago

I doubt we will see either of the 2020 candidates in 2024.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.1.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.5    2 months ago

I will drink to that, where did I put my makers mark?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.1.6    2 months ago

Mine is never far away.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
1.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    2 months ago

That is why the DOJ needs to shut him down and the 14th used against this orange POS.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1.1.8    2 months ago

Lol ..... go for it.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago

I think many are saying they would vote for trump if biden was his opponent.  And some of those people would rather see trump not run. 

You think the democrats can learn from this and nominate someone other than Joe or will they just keep going and complain about it?

It is pretty funny how many believed people would think the Jan 6th sham committee is more important to voters than feeding their families and children. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.2    2 months ago
It is pretty funny how many believed people would think the Jan 6th sham committee is more important to voters than feeding their families and children. 

Some people can walk and chew at the same time. Can Republicans and conservatives not do that?  The idea that one has to choose between bringing justice to Trump or feeding families is ridiculous. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.2.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 months ago

The point is one is more important.  People can still vote for trump even though they would rather not. So the message is clear. Joe won't win, why do you insist on backing someone that could mean a trump presidency?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.2.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.2.1    2 months ago
The idea that one has to choose between bringing justice to Trump or feeding families is ridiculous. 

So why aren't Biden and the Democrats doing anything to help out those families? They are razor edged focused on getting Trump; and dumping gasoline on their inflation dumpster fire by trying to force Build Back Better through. How is dumping a couple of trillion more into an already oversaturated economy w/o enough goods/resources going to help anyone.

Tell us all what Biden and Democrats have done to help anyone? Outside of themselves and their rich backers that is.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
1.3  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
We have been massively failed by the mainstream media, which is insistent on "both sides-ism" , which has allowed Trump to escape the harshest criticisms of his bizarre and illegal actions. 

JR,  I didn't know you were a comedian.   But then again that line isn't all that funny.  I don't see mainstream media that much involved in "both sides-ism".  Until recently the political bias of the MSM giants was rather clear-cut.  If it was a right-leaning organization it favored Trump and the Republicans, if it was a left-leaning organization it went the other way and was anti-Trump.  Such was the world of MSM for the past several years.

Recently we have seen the left-leaning organizations turning away from Biden due to the failures of his administration and the failure of the Democrats in general to focus on anything except their extremist policies and their attack on Trump.  Hell,  even CNN the other day was comparing Biden to Carter and the way they put it Carter was coming out on top of the comparison.  But to say that MSM has allowed Trump to escape the harshest criticisms?  That's laughable IMO.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @1.3    2 months ago

Of course the mainstream media engages in constant "both sides-ism", were that not the case they would have blown Trump out of the water shortly after he announced his candidacy in 2015. There never was one second when Trump was fit to be president of the United States, at least not by normal, sane, historical standards. He has been a known pathological liar, crook, bigot, moron and cheat prior to running for president. It was crazy from the beginning that such a person could rise in American politics. The mainstream media takes a great deal of the blame for that since their coverage of national politics is largely about the "horse race", in other words the pitting of one side against the other no matter what. The media granted Trump legitimacy just because he had a certain popularity. It continues til today. Often the media, even what you call "liberal" media , will not go after Trump without also, in the same story, talking about the unpopularity of Biden or some other Democrat. This is not, at all, the way to get rid of Trump. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.3.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.1    2 months ago

Of course the mainstream media engages in constant "both sides-ism"

 Funny, I thought the job of the media was to present all sides of a story and not be advocates for a particular group. I understand it might seem like they should be advocates because they have been for the most part but it is funny to see them be accused of not advocating enough.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3.3  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.3.2    2 months ago

Yes, let's give Hitler's side of the story in the name of "fairness". 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.3.4  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.3    2 months ago

Comparing him to Hitler is an insult to anyone that lived through world War 2. Stop making shit up just so you can feel you are winning an argument that you have already lost.

Your idea that only one side deserves to be heard is one of the reasons so many people and companies are starting to push back. 

Long live Elon musk and the first amendment. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.3.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @1.3.4    2 months ago
Comparing him to Hitler is an insult to anyone that lived through world War 2. Stop making shit up just so you can feel you are winning an argument that you have already lost.

The day I lose an argument to you I would have to give up internet forums. 

Of course Trump, and others, can be compared to Hitler. Not in every respect of course, but in some respects. Some say the media needs to be more "fair" to Trump, which is absurd. The media has been far too fair to him already. 

Should the media have been "fair" to the concept of Hitler opening concentration camps? 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.3.6  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.5    2 months ago

Lol

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.3.7  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.5    2 months ago

Then you should have left a couple years ago.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.3.8  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.3    2 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.9  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.5    2 months ago

Another one who thinks proclaiming whatever nonsense he proclaims, that we should just accept as fact, despite never offering anything to support the claims.

Nothing but projection, deflection, and denial.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.3.10  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @1.3.5    2 months ago

Controlling what the media does and does not let the citizens see seems very Putinsh, eh comrad?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
1.3.11  Right Down the Center  replied to  Tessylo @1.3.9    2 months ago

I prefer deflection, denial, and projection.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.4  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
America, sadly, is a degraded nation from what many of us grew up with. It is understandable that many people have turned against Biden, the economic condition is usually placed in the presidents lap whether he is responsible for it or not. 

Yes, America has been degraded since Biden and Democrats took control. They have fucked this country up to the point it will take years for us to recover if it ever does; and they are still trying.

Remember when Biden promised to bring this nation together. To serve all US citizens equally? 

His entire speech was a complete and utter load of BS. He and the Democrats have done more to divide this country than Trump ever could. Point to any accomplishment Biden has had; outside of blaming everyone else for his failures.

As the Jan 6th committee has made clear, Trump is a traitor to the United States, a conspiracy nut, and someone who is detached from day to day reality. 

You just described every TDS driven lunatic on the committee; and all of those that adhere to their every partisan word.

We have been massively failed by the mainstream media, which is insistent on "both sides-ism" , which has allowed Trump to escape the harshest criticisms of his bizarre and illegal actions. 

Your TDS is shining through. The media treated Trump fairly? Since when? Was it during the entire Hillary Clinton Campaign driver Russian collusion investigation? Was it when they hung on Trump's every tweet; while ignoring what Pelosi and the Democrats were doing to provoke Trump? They dropped all decorum when dealing with Trump; and it was applauded by the media. 

Meanwhile the media flat out ignored Joe. His bumbling, stumbling, and slurring in the Democrat primaries was quickly explained away. He was allowed to hide in his basement and take pot shots at Trump. Even when he said flat out stupid racist statements the media gave him a complete pass. Remember "If you have a problem figuring out whether your for me or Trump; then you ain't black".  That would have been a death sentence for any Republican; but Biden still became president.

One has to be fearful for the future of our country. 

We are. The Democrats are in charge of Congress until midterms. Who knows how much more damage they will do? Then we will have to wait two more long years to kick them out of the Oval Office. By that time Democrats might get their wish; and the US will be "dramatically changed, and unrecognizable". 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
America, sadly, is a degraded nation from what many of us grew up with. It is understandable that many people have turned against Biden, the economic condition is usually placed in the presidents lap whether he is responsible for it or not. 

Degraded nation?  What the polling bluntly tells us is that people don't see any difference between Democrats and Republicans.  Politics has degraded.  The country doesn't trust leadership by any politicians.

Politics has become so intrusive that the country is being dragged down to the level of politics.  The country is running on autopilot; nobody is leading the country.  Politics has become so pointless that it doesn't really matter who holds office any longer.  That's what the polling is bluntly telling us.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.5.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5    2 months ago
Degraded nation?

Of course. We evidently have millions of people who would vote for a criminal, anti-democratic sociopath based only on the economy. It is totally sad, and a judgement on our people. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
1.5.2  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @1.5.1    2 months ago

Your talking about those that voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden right?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5.3  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1.5.1    2 months ago
Of course. We evidently have millions of people who would vote for a criminal, anti-democratic sociopath based only on the economy. It is totally sad, and a judgement on our people. 

What's the alternative?

People are still refusing to accept that Trump was deliberately sent to Washington D. C. to break politics.  People really are supporting Trump because they expect Trump to intentionally, deliberately, and maliciously fuck over the political system.  Trump was not sent to Washington to build up the Republican Party.  Trump was specifically elected to kick asses; Republican asses, Democrat asses, bureaucrat asses, global assess, any political ass that got in the way.  Trump was never elected to play politics.  And if people are deluding themselves to think otherwise then their ass is going to be kicked.  Just ask Mike Pence.

The polling data clearly and precisely tells us why Trump was elected.  People are fed up with politics.  Expect more people like Trump to be elected.  That's not a degraded nation; that's degraded politics.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
1.5.4  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5.3    2 months ago
People are fed up with politics. 

Amen brother, amen.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.5.5  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5.3    2 months ago

You are the living proof of the statement "i could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue" (and not lose any votes).  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5.6  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1.5.5    2 months ago
You are the living proof of the statement "i could shoot someone in the middle of 5th avenue" (and not lose any votes).

That's what the polls are telling you.  I'm only looking at the polls a little more objectively.

You think people didn't know who and what Trump was?  The 2016 Republican primary debates were televised.  And more people watched those Republican primary debates than the current Democrats' dog and pony show.  Trump demonstrated he could and would kick asses that got in the way.  Trump was brutal on Republicans.  That was Trump's appeal.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.5.7  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5.3    2 months ago
Expect more people like Trump to be elected.  That's not a degraded nation; that's degraded politics.  

Trump's original big draw was that he was perceived to be an anti-politician.   I agree that people still like breaking free of career politicians.   However, we should never vote into office someone like Trump.    Anti-politician yes.   But a malignant narcissist, pathological liar who demonstrably puts self over nation should never have even a remote hope of public office.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5.8  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.5.7    2 months ago
Trump's original big draw was that he was perceived to be an anti-politician.   I agree that people still like breaking free of career politicians.   However, we should never vote into office someone like Trump.    Anti-politician yes.   But a malignant narcissist, pathological liar who demonstrably puts self over nation should never have even a remote hope of public office.

People knew Trump was a malignant narcissist pathological liar.  Trump demonstrated those qualities to win the Republican nomination.

Electing someone like Trump depends upon expectations.  If the expectation was for Trump to unify politicians and seek compromise or to pursue Republican business-as-usual politics then obviously Trump was the wrong choice.  But if the expectation was to burn it down then Trump was the perfect choice.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.5.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @1.5.8    2 months ago

Lets stipulate that Trump "burned it down". What did he accomplish? He has never enjoyed even 50% approval, and that is over the course of 7 years. He has helped to make insane conspiracy theories an everyday part of American life. He has badly exacerbated racial tensions. He has devalued the meaning of the word "truth". He had the most corrupt administration in US history. He routinely lies about his adversaries. 

What good as he done? Trumpism will not last in America, at least not without destroying what is left of our national self-respect. Yeah, he burned it down. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.5.10  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @1.5.7    2 months ago
"But a malignant narcissist, pathological liar who demonstrably puts self over nation should never have even a remote hope of public office."
And yet Hillary  was almost elected. And Biden sure isn't showing much concern for everyday American citizens

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
1.5.11  afrayedknot  replied to  TᵢG @1.5.7    2 months ago

“But a malignant narcissist, pathological liar who demonstrably puts self over nation should never have even a remote hope of public office.”

Hear, hear. 

Sadly, and bordering on tragically, it will take numerous election cycles to rid us of this scourge.

How much more do we lower the bar before we have razed the whole thing?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.5.12  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @1.5.10    2 months ago

Seems to me that every comment from you is nothing more than weak deflection.

Really, Greg, how can you possibly compare the malignant narcissism and pathological lying of Trump —especially when he illustrated it so clearly with his Big Lie and proved to the thinking world that he cares more about his own ego than the good of the nation— to anyone else?

To not recognize how distinguished Trump is from all other political narcissists / liars today is truly remarkable.   Trump's Big Lie campaign towers over all other poor behavior by any PotUS in history (and any losing candidate in history).   No comparison to anyone else in the history of our nation.

Buy a vowel.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
PhD Principal
1.5.13  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @1.5.9    2 months ago
Lets stipulate that Trump "burned it down". What did he accomplish?

Some who are really, really fed up with politics believe that Trump was only the beginning.  

He has never enjoyed even 50% approval, and that is over the course of 7 years. He has helped to make insane conspiracy theories an everyday part of American life. He has badly exacerbated racial tensions. He has devalued the meaning of the word "truth". He had the most corrupt administration in US history. He routinely lies about his adversaries.

Trump wasn't elected to be popular.  Trump was not elected to give Republicans a competitive edge.  Trump was elected to intentionally destroy normal politics.  That was Trump's appeal.

On the other hand, Biden was elected to reinstate normal politics.  Biden was elected to be a more traditional President that engaged in normal politics.  The polling numbers speak for themselves.  Biden isn't more popular than Trump.  Biden's normal politics doesn't compare favorably with Trump's destructive politics.  Right now the country doesn't see a difference between Biden and Trump.

The prominent connection between Biden and Trump is politics.  The polling really does indicate the public recognizes that politics has degraded and is no longer of benefit to the country.  If the country rejects destructive politics and normal politics then it follows that the country is rejecting politics in general.

What good as he done? Trumpism will not last in America, at least not without destroying what is left of our national self-respect. Yeah, he burned it down. 

More importantly the return to normal politics demonstrates that politics doesn't do shit.  The polling data suggests the country recognizes that politics in general is destroying what is left of national self respect.  

Biden's normal politics isn't seen as improving lives.  The polling results are quite clear and definite.  Biden's normal politics isn't seen as any better than Trump's destructive politics.  Why shouldn't we expect the public to turn against politics?  So, Trump has accomplished quite a bit simply by providing a comparison.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
1.6  Tacos!  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 months ago
What is utterly depressing is so many people continuing to say they would vote for Trump.

No one else has presented themselves yet as an option. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.6.1  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @1.6    2 months ago

I have no problem stating that under no circumstance would I vote for Trump.    I do not need to know who is running to make that determination.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
1.6.2  Tacos!  replied to  TᵢG @1.6.1    2 months ago

You’re not the people we’re talking about.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.6.3  TᵢG  replied to  Tacos! @1.6.2    2 months ago

My point was that one can right now easily determine that Trump should never be in a position of power.    I was using myself as an example of someone who has made that determination.

So if the Ds put up a candidate who I cannot bring myself to vote for and Trump is the R candidate, I will NOT vote for Trump.   And, again, I am simply using myself as an example but I do not think I am unique in this regard.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
2  Right Down the Center    2 months ago

Americans are slowly coming to the realization that they would rather have an asshole meanie pants that made their lives better and more secure than a half dead poopie pants that leads a party intent on blaming everyone else for their shortcomings and focusing on things that really don't matter to the average American. It is about time.

But hey, at least we will have less racist roads and statues that no one even knew who they were offending them.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @2    2 months ago
Americans are slowly coming to the realization that they would rather have an asshole meanie pants that made their lives better

The problem there is that the "asshole meanie pants" did not bring the great economy we experienced.   The public gives the PotUS (in general) far too much credit (and blame) for the economy.   The natural change to party in control during bad economic times will almost certainly occur and if times remain bad that change should not be to Trump but to an R candidate who is at least a halfway decent human being who likely puts nation over self.

Regarding the economy, it should be obvious (but clearly it is not) that the pandemic is the 800lb Gorilla here.    It took out Trump's 4th year and we continue to suffer through the supply chain and staffing issues that ensued.   And of course some companies are exploiting these excuses to raise prices more than they need to.  These factors ultimately drove inflation and we are experiencing the snowball-effect phenomenon of "when it is good it is real good and when bad it is real bad".

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @2.1    2 months ago
The problem there is that the "asshole meanie pants" did not bring the great economy we experienced.

I'm too lazy to look at the Dow, S&P, etc., but I do know that my retirement investments took a bit of a dive in 2018.  I imagine they're reflective of the market as a whole.  Now, they recovered, but I have to wonder if those who think Trump gave us a great economy also blame him for the losses in 2018, before Covid was a thing.  I'm betting they won't.  But 2018 wasn't an general election year, so it wouldn't have mattered at the time, and by 2020, those to whom it would have mattered had forgotten.

But overall, agreed - Biden hasn't tanked the economy, any more than Trump did in 2018.  Coronavirus and Russia are the issues here, for the most part.  Not to mention, some market volatility is pretty much normal over time.  Panic-selling in reaction to normal volatility exacerbates that volatility.  And then you end up with economic self-fulfilling prophecies.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.1    2 months ago

My retirement fund did better from 2016-2020 than any other 4 year period of its existence.    Specifically from 2018-2020.     The pandemic didn’t hurt me too bad since I was very diversified and had been averaging out of equities, into cash and cash equivalents, for the previous two years.

I was ready for this Biden economy.    As ready as anyone can be for a CF like this that is.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
2.1.3  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @2.1    2 months ago

I don't disagree with what you say for the most part. I will add that people are not looking for excuses or reasons why things are shitting the bed. Most of them don't follow politics that closely so they may not even be aware of the reasons put forward. And alot of the people that are on the edges of paying attention don't trust the government or cable news enough to buy their spin.

What everyone is aware of is how much it costs to maintain their standard of living and security. If they are not happy with it they will vote according. Pretty simple actually 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.1    2 months ago
I'm betting they won't. 

I agree.  

But overall, agreed - Biden hasn't tanked the economy, any more than Trump did in 2018.  Coronavirus and Russia are the issues here, for the most part.  Not to mention, some market volatility is pretty much normal over time.  Panic-selling in reaction to normal volatility exacerbates that volatility.  And then you end up with economic self-fulfilling prophecies.

It is amazing that people can ignore the profound worldwide effects of the pandemic and the almost predictable snowball effects that result and just simplistically blame Biden.   Really amazing that people apparently are unaware that the USA is not alone in the worldwide shortages in effect today.   And if they think Biden is controlling the world then they are beyond hope.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.3    2 months ago
If they are not happy with it they will vote according.

Yes, this is one of the most obvious facts of USA politics.    Carville's observation remains true today:

its-the-economy-stupid-james-carville-rent-home-own.jpg

Bad economy ⇒ party in power is voted out

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
2.1.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.5    2 months ago

Interesting that some of the party think James is too old school to listen to. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.5    2 months ago

30 YEARS later and some Democrats are still refusing to recognize that fact.

The bad news for Biden comes as prices continue to increase at the fastest pace in 40 years, upending expectations and overshadowing other concerns. According to the poll, 40% of registered voters (up from 33% last month) now say inflation is "the most important issue to you when thinking about this year's election" — more than four times the number for any other issue.

Even the seeder should be able to recognize the significance of these numbers.

To not just reinforces the perception that getting Trump is the sole objective no matter the state of the economy.

That will cost the Democrats votes, rest assured.

I am sure the Democratic Party autopsy of the midterms will bear that out.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @2.1.6    2 months ago

Fundamentals tend to be durable.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.2    2 months ago

Stock market, DJIA, both down compared to Biden's inaugural day.

Trillions lost in retirement accounts.

Weird--I haven't heard any leftists calling for forgiveness of debts for retirees facing economic hardship.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.1.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.9    2 months ago
I haven't heard any leftists calling for forgiveness of debts for retirees facing economic hardship.

I wasnt aware that stock market investments were, or are supposed to be, guaranteed income. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.11  Greg Jones  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.1    2 months ago

What  positive actions has done to stabilize the economy and slowing inflation.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.10    2 months ago
I wasnt aware that stock market investments were, or are supposed to be, guaranteed income. 

Gee, I guess you are also unaware of what comparisons are.

Look, Democrats have been talking about forgiving college debts--most of it for people under 50, in the workforce, making decent money.

Retirees don't get any consideration like that.

FFS, try at least to argue something I actually write, I said NOTHING about guaranteed incomes.

Simple fact is, the economy sucks now, and looks to get worse. Biden is President. Presidents get credit and blame for the economy.

Carville had it right 30 years ago when he had to remind Democrats that "It's the economy, stupid".

30 years later and you STILL don't get it because of your Trump myopia.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.13  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1.10    2 months ago

Over time, investment in the  markets gives a decent rate of return

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.13    2 months ago
Over time, investment in the  markets gives a decent rate of return

Time, something retirees are short on.

Give them some relief if you are going to give it to able-bodied younger people who don't want to pay their loans.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.11    2 months ago

What, that is within the power of POTUS, would you have him do, Greg?

The Federal Reserve has raised interest rates to slow inflation.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.16  TᵢG  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    2 months ago

Spot on.

Amazing how many people do not understand the powers of the presidency as they relate to the economy.

Biden can lower/cancel tariffs, work with the Fed, work (somehow) to untangle the supply chain problems (albeit not the role of government, much less the presidency), reduce federal spending that overdrives demand, etc.   But there is no magical button the PotUS can push (or even several buttons).   That is simply not part of the powers of the presidency.

After all if these magical buttons existed we would never have economic problems.

Odd that so many do not seem to understand this.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.17  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    2 months ago
The Federal Reserve has raised interest rates to slow inflation.

Sure, about six months too late.    We could be well into recovery right now if Biden admin had not been in denial and procrastinated.

That, was most definitely within their control.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.16    2 months ago

They don't want to understand. It lessens their ability to point fingers.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.19  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.17    2 months ago

Actually, the Federal Reserve isn't under direct control of POTUS, so, no, it was not "most definitely within their control."

Trump found that out in 2018, when the Fed raised interest rates to prevent inflatioin, and he preferred that they didn't - as any real estate "mogul" would.  High interest rates are bad for the real estate market.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.20  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.19    2 months ago

After nearly eights years of zero % Fed interest rates during the Obama admin it was the prudent thing to do.    Of course it should have been raised sooner but it wasn’t.    Just like it should have been raised sooner during Biden’s presidency.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.21  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.20    2 months ago

The same guy who raised rates in 2018 is in charge now, and is a Trump-appointed Republican, but sure, let's only mention Obama and Biden.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.22  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.21    2 months ago

Who was in charge for Obama’s eight years?

Just checking .......

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.23  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.22    2 months ago

You've been blaming the wrong guy, and have to deflect because you can't admit it.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.24  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.23    2 months ago

No answer to my question.    Noted.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.25  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.24    2 months ago

You were wrong, Sparty.

That, was most definitely within their control.

I know you don't want to acknowledge it, but you were.

Have a good night!

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.26  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.25    2 months ago
You were wrong, Sparty.
That, was most definitely within their control.

What was I wrong about Sandy?

I know you don't want to acknowledge it, but you were.

Prove me wrong and I’ll be happy to acknowledge it.    You’ve proven nothing but your ability to spin a disingenuous narrative.    Nothing more.

Have a good night!

I will and you as well 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.27  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.26    2 months ago

You're adding sealioning to deflection.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.28  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.22    2 months ago
Who was in charge for Obama’s eight years?

Who was in charge of the Fed when Obama was PotUS?:   Ben Bernanke followed by Janet Yellen.  

Bush appointed Bernanke who served from February 1, 2006 to January 31, 2014.   After that, Obama appointed Janet Yellen who served from February 3, 2014 to February 3, 2018.   Trump then appointed Jerome Powell who is the current chair.

Neither Obama, Trump or Biden were ever in charge of the Fed and thus none of them controlled interest rates.

Sparty@2.2.20After nearly eights years of zero % Fed interest rates during the Obama admin it was the prudent thing to do.    Of course it should have been raised sooner but it wasn’t.    Just like it should have been raised sooner during Biden’s presidency.

So you consider it a mistake for Bernanke and Yellen to not raise interest rates when they were in charge of the Fed.   You believe Powell too should have raised interest rates sooner.   Okay, your opinion is noted.   Nobody will know if your macro-economic wisdom is correct.    But we do know that interest rates are not the call of the PotUS.

Sparty@2.1.7We could be well into recovery right now if Biden admin had not been in denial and procrastinated.

See that is you being confused; the PotUS does not control interest rates, that is the purview of the Fed.    Or as Sandy correctly noted:

Sandy@2.1.19Actually, the Federal Reserve isn't under direct control of POTUS, so, no, it was not "most definitely within their control."

You can blame the three prior PotUS' for nominating the wrong Fed chair, but you cannot blame them for the management of the interest rate.   Other then nominating/replacing the chair, a PotUS has no authority over the operations of the Fed — by design.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.29  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.27    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.30  Sparty On  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.29    2 months ago

[]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3  TᵢG    2 months ago

This has historically been the case.   If people are feeling financial pressure they will blame the party in control and will, since there is no other choice, switch to the other party.   And the PotUS will of course take the majority of the blame.

If one is to be PotUS one better have the fortune to be in office when the economy is getting better rather than going south.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago

So you think it would be justifiable for someone to vote for Trump in 2024 if they thought he would be better for their personal circumstances?

Unbelievable. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
3.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago
So you think it would be justifiable for someone to vote for Trump in 2024 if they thought he would be better for their personal circumstances?

You're reading words that aren't there.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago

Is that a serious question? Do you really think the majority of Americans would not vote for whoever they thought would be better for their personal circumstances? 

The hate for Donald does not run that deep for most people but it does explain why 35 or so percent of Americans think joe is doing a good job.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago

John how do you get that from what I wrote?   You are entirely confused.  

To help you get a clue, read @2.1

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  sandy-2021492 @3.1.1    2 months ago

You dont need to defend Tig. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.4    2 months ago

Correct, I need no defense here.   The problem lies solely with you.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.2    2 months ago

You are apparently completely ignorant of the history of the Trump presidency, most notably post 2020 election. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago
So you think it would be justifiable for someone to vote for Trump in 2024 if they thought he would be better for their personal circumstances?

Okay, I have to ask since this is so over-the-top ridiculous.

How can you possibly, given what I have written regarding Trump and the Big Lie, think I would hold that Trump should be voted into any public office for any circumstances?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.8  Sparty On  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.2    2 months ago

Well it appears many did vote for higher inflation, higher gas prices, higher food costs, more COVID deaths, more contentious governing, etc, etc, .... I mean, I don’t hear a lot of liberals bitching about Biden but we still hear them whining incessantly about the guy who has been out of office for two years.

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.9  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    2 months ago
justifiable for someone to vote for Trump in 2024 if they thought he would be better for their personal circumstances?

Millions of people will vote for president based on their kitchen table issues.  That's been true for a great many years.  They are not looking beyond that.  And what Tig said is very much true..

If people are feeling financial pressure they will blame the party in control

Right or wrong, like it or not,  this is the reality.  I know you cannot pull Trump out of your head, so maybe thinking of it this way will help;  they would not so much be voting for Trump as voting against Biden.  

Now, if you're a registered Democrat how about you work to get a more moderate and acceptable person to the nomination so the choice doesn't fall down to that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.10  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.9    2 months ago
I know you cannot pull Trump out of your head, so maybe thinking of it this way will help;  they would not so much be voting for Trump as voting against Biden.  

Donald Trump is a traitor, period end of sentence. 

You would vote for a traitor to be president of the United States on the basis of a transitory thing like inflation? Are you serious?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.11  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.6    2 months ago

I am well aware, I just choose to not let it control everything in my life.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.12  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.1.11    2 months ago

This article is not about everything that controls your life, it is about the 2024 election. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.13  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.10    2 months ago

I said THEY,  not ME.   For the fucking record again  (not that I expect you to remember it because in your mind if I'm not constantly shouting at the sky that I hate all things Trump, I am his fervent supporter) I do not want to vote for Trump in 24 and as such I do not want him to run or at least win the nomination.  I am a registered Independent and as such so not vote in the primaries.

But when it comes to the presidential election I WILL NOT VOTE FOR BIDEN.  Is that fucking clear enough for you now?  Has nothing to do with just inflation but with ALL the fuckups that Biden has presided over in the past 18 months.  

However I don't believe it will come to this as I do not believe that Biden will be running for re-election in 24.  I know he says that he is planning on running but he has to say that now.  He cannot turn himself into a lame duck president and that is exactly what he would do if he said he was not going to run.  But I do not expect him to run.  I just don't know who from the Democratic side will get the nomination.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.14  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.13    2 months ago

So you are saying you would vote for Trump, a proven traitor (and yes it has been proven) , if you felt that was your best course. 

Thats all we need to know. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.15  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.14    2 months ago

At least you're fucking consistent...   you ignore the world because of Trump.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.16  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.15    2 months ago

lol. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.17  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.16    2 months ago

You're not proving it here, you're just a one trick pony.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.18  Right Down the Center  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.8    2 months ago

Some of those are the ones rich enough where the economy tanking will not have a huge impact on their lives and taking down statues is more important than worrying about the average American. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.20  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.10    2 months ago
Donald Trump is a traitor, period end of sentence. 

Yes.   And one would be irrational, irresponsible and unpatriotic to vote Trump into any public position of power, much less the presidency.

Ever read words like that from me, JR?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.21  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.17    2 months ago

You would vote for a proven traitor if you thought it was to your personal benefit. 

You havent denied it. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.22  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.12    2 months ago

Yep, and I will vote accordingly between the 2 or so nominees. You still touting biden even though it is beginning to look like trump could beat him?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.23  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.16    2 months ago

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.24  Right Down the Center  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.17    2 months ago

jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.25  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.21    2 months ago

You havent denied it. 

Your singular focus on getting people to admit or deny they could conceivably vote for trump is bordering on bizzare.  What do you suggest the democrats do to stop this disturbing trend now that it looks like the commission might not do it?

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.1.26  afrayedknot  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.13    2 months ago

“I WILL NOT VOTE FOR BIDEN.”

As is your right. You also have the choice to ignore the top of the ballot race. Too many times I’ve had to do so…disagreeing with one party’s candidate does not require a vote for the other.

Focusing on down ballot issues, issues that more directly effect one’s personal situation are much more important anyway.

A popular election is a misnomer these daze. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
3.1.27  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.10    2 months ago

Trump is not a traitor. You're wading in a puddle of delusion.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.28  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.27    2 months ago

Of course he is. He tried to overthrow a legitimate election. 

The idea that Trump didnt try to stay in office by illegal means is ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. 

The Eastman scheme was illegal. There is near unanimity on that. 

Trump not only endorsed the Eastman scheme, he personally tried up until the last second to get Pence to implement it. 

Educate yourself. 

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.29  Snuffy  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.26    2 months ago

And that's JR's problem.  All I've said is that I will not vote for Biden and to do that I can not vote for a presidential candidate, or I can vote 3rd party.  But JR will not accept anything except the explicit words that say that i will not vote for Trump.  That's all that matters to JR because he has lodged Trump in his head so far he cannot see anything outside of that.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.30  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.29    2 months ago
But JR will not accept anything except the explicit words that say that i will not vote for Trump. 

Words you have never said. We can draw an easy inference from that. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.31  Texan1211  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.29    2 months ago

You are correct!

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.32  Snuffy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.30    2 months ago

You're allowed to make your own assumptions.  Your assumption is wrong but that's nothing new here either. 

The only time I said that I would vote for Trump was well before the commission details started coming out where I said if the ballot came down to Biden vs Trump I would vote for Trump as I could not vote for Biden.  Have at it, I no longer care what you say as you have proven yourself well.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.33  TᵢG  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.32    2 months ago
The only time I said that I would vote for Trump was well before the commission details started coming out ...

Have the details of the Jan 6th hearings influenced you to not vote for Trump regardless of the other candidate?

 
 
 
Snuffy
Masters Guide
3.1.34  Snuffy  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.33    2 months ago

yeah they have.  The dirty tricks being played go beyond what we normally see in a presidential election, problem is I don't know if it's because this was something new or if it is simply being reported on because it was Trump doing it.  I lost trust in politicians and main-stream media many years before Trump even started.

It is my hope that either Trump decides not to run in 24 or that he does not get the nomination because I hate the idea of basically throwing my vote away on a third party candidate but I don't want to vote for Trump but will not vote for Biden (or to be honest a handful of the Democrat front-runners at this point).  It all comes down to who is on the ballet in 24.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.1.35  afrayedknot  replied to  Snuffy @3.1.29    2 months ago

“And that's JR's problem.”

Couching it in those terms is perhaps symptomatic of the crisis that lies before us.

Some are simply content in scoring a political point, whether it being in discourse on an anonymous chat board or in casting an anonymous vote. All the while ignoring the crossroad before us…do we accept the status quo or do we demand more…more from our leaders, more from our elected representatives, and ultimately more from ourselves. 

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.1.36  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.30    2 months ago

We can draw an easy inference from that. 

Correct. The inference I draw is he might just not want be bullied into admitting anything to someone with a weird obsession. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3    2 months ago
This has historically been the case.   If people are feeling financial pressure they will blame the party in control and will, since there is no other choice, switch to the other party.   And the PotUS will of course take the majority of the blame. If one is to be PotUS one better have the fortune to be in office when the economy is getting better rather than going south.

You claim I misunderstood you. It seems to me that you are saying here that , because of the economy a vote for the "other" , in this case Donald Trump, would be justifiable. If you dont think a vote for Trump in 2024 is justifiable , why didnt you just say so?  Its not like he doesnt loom over this question. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.2.1  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2    2 months ago

Good gawd John!    

Have you ever heard the saying that people vote with their pocketbooks?    I know you have and you know it to be true.   So  it makes one wonder about the logic of your comment.

Are you hoping to change an age old trend with such crazy statements?

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.2.2  Right Down the Center  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2    2 months ago

He is talking in generalities, not specifically about himself. Why do you refuse to see what is so obvious to everyone else?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2    2 months ago
You claim I misunderstood you.

You absolutely, without a shred of doubt, totally blew it when you read my post.

It seems to me that you are saying here that , because of the economy a vote for the "other" , in this case Donald Trump, would be justifiable.

NO John.   I wrote that when the economy is bad, the party in power is typically voted out:    

TiG@3This has historically been the case.   If people are feeling financial pressure they will blame the party in control and will, since there is no other choice, switch to the other party.

You inserted Trump and you inserted 'justifiable'.   That is your imagination in overdrive and it necessarily ignores all that I have written on Trump's Big Lie.   Your interpretation is staggeringly wrong and it just blows my mind that this could even cross your mind.   Really, John, how in holy fuck do you get there from what I wrote?

If you dont think a vote for Trump in 2024 is justifiable , why didnt you just say so?  Its not like he doesnt loom over this question.

I did not mention Trump.    But if it makes you feel better, remember that I have stated dozens of times that voting for Trump is irrational, irresponsible and unpatriotic.

Bookmark this for the next time you feel I am being inconsistent.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.2.4  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.3    2 months ago

Maybe you could just copy/paste it to all your future posts.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Right Down the Center @3.2.4    2 months ago

Albeit this will likely piss John off (but not the intent), both sides do this.    Many (most?) people presume waaaaaaay too much and read into posts that which is not only not there but never intended.

Too many people operate on the basis of stereotype.   They place people into categories and then those categories shape how they interpret subsequent comments.

This is how the human mind works.   We necessarily simplify reality by categorizing rather than comprehending all the nuances all at once.   It takes an effort to overcome this natural tendency and most people do not even realize that this is how our minds work.

The problem is that the categories are rough, fuzzy 'memories' of what someone has written (the nuances are lost, the exceptions are lost) and thus people wind up with a false understanding of the positions of others.

Ergo, one should not presume to know the thought process, positions, etc. of another.    One should paraphrase and ask questions to ensure proper understanding.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
3.2.6  Right Down the Center  replied to  TᵢG @3.2.5    2 months ago

Makes sense for most but you will always have some that will hang onto their original incorrect assumptions even after the person they are misunderstanding tries to correct them. I might give it one shot but if they decide their misinterpreting is correct and the person is just lying I will give up. What people here think about me is not that important to me.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4  Sean Treacy    2 months ago

Well duh..

The party that has anything but clean hands when it comes to political violence focuses obsessively on one riot last year while ignoring everything else going on in the world. (Except promoting tranny shows and racial determinism  in schools).  What a surprise it's hurt them politically. 

This a is a party who  supports a President who won't condemn an assassination attempt against a Supreme Court Justice,  whose elected Speaker won't condemn dozens of domestic terrorist attacks against pregnancy centers,  whose chosen Senate leader threatened Supreme Court justices if they don't do what he wants, and the Party somehow  expects to  benefit from focusing on this topic.

Democrats don't have clean hands, and that's why Trump can survive. They are an entire party of Scylla and Trump is Charybdis

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    2 months ago

How is it over there off the deep end? 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1    2 months ago
ow is it over there off the deep end? 

The cognitive dissonance it takes to be a progressive is impressive. 

Why do you think your dear speaker won't condemn domestic terrorism when asked about it?  Is it more of the  "good terrorism" that  injured thousands of cops, etc  in 2020? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5  Texan1211    2 months ago

Even with Democrats, Biden's support is going downhill.

With independents having a heavily unfavorable view of Biden, hardly likely he could win reelection.

Those numbers don't have a damn thing to do with Trump.

Personally, I can't see Biden running again. Harris is doomed before she even starts, Nancy is too old and will not be Speaker, so who does that leave for Democrats?

When the economy is as bad as it currently is, and looks like it will get even worse, the sitting President gets the blame--period.

Don't tell me it isn't fair, that isn't the question here. The question is how can you support someone presiding over high inflation and wanted desperately to spend a trillion or two more?

The answer is simple.  American voters will elect someone else.

 
 

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