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The ‘Russia hoax’ hoax

  
Via:  John Russell  •  4 years ago  •  22 comments


The ‘Russia hoax’ hoax
Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), now a host on Fox News, made clear at the time that the dossier was incidental to the probe itself: “There is a Russia investigation without a dossier,” he said on CBS News. “... The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos’s meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn’t have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there’s going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.”

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www.washingtonpost.com   /politics/2022/08/17/trump-russia-hoax-defense/

Trump’s defense against federal investigation: The ‘Russia hoax’ hoax


Philip Bump 16-21 minutes   8/17/2022





One of the most useful things to remember about Donald Trump’s claims that the investigation into 2016 Russian interference was a politically motivated smear campaign is that his complaints about it began before we even knew much of anything about what had happened.

The first time he called the Russia investigation a “hoax” was in   March 2017 , at which point his argument against it was, predictably, that Hillary Clinton’s ties to Russia were much closer. He first dubbed it a “witch hunt”   10 days before   he was even inaugurated. Every rationalization that’s emerged since to cast the probe as biased or contrived or dishonest came only after Trump had begun declaring it to be precisely that.


This could have been just another component of Trump’s   well-documented dishonesty , a particularly durable example of his saying something untrue repeatedly. But the idea that the Russia investigation was a “hoax” has endured — and has become a sort of ground zero for claims that federal law enforcement is out to get Trump.

In the week since Trump’s estate at Mar-a-Lago was searched by the FBI as part of a probe into his retention of government documents, this assertion that the Russia investigation was a hoax has emerged repeatedly, including from Trump. Because so many of his supporters believe, incorrectly, that the investigation into Trump’s campaign and Russia’s efforts was somehow thoroughly debunked, they are ready to believe that the new probe is similarly artificial.

So it’s worth pointing out that, in fact, the Russia probe was neither a hoax nor debunked — and allow people to draw their own conclusions about the new investigation as a result.

We’ll consider several components of the Russia investigation to show that popular right-wing presentations about it are incorrect. There’s what was known publicly even before Russia’s efforts to intervene were reported in the wake of the election. There’s what was happening behind the scenes that raised alarms with the Justice Department. And there’s the breathless effort to discredit everything that cast a derogatory light on Trump — an effort that has objectively failed......


.....It’s not worth exploring all of the claims that were made to suggest that the Russia probe was suspect. There were so many — and so many that were obviously ludicrous — that it’s nearly impossible anyway. This, too, was both part of the strategy and a preview of Trump’s long-term strategy. Claim to see enough smoke, and eventually people will just assume there’s a fire.

The theories that have been the most commonly cited and longest-lasting are as follows.

The Clinton campaign got the FBI to investigate Trump.   Shortly before Trump took office, BuzzFeed News published Steele’s dossier of reports. The claims it made were   broadly unsupported and often dubious , but an audience of Trump opponents eager to believe the worst devoured its components. Major news outlets generally avoided treating its claims as matters of fact.

But because so much of the public conversation focused on the dossier — at the time, the most robust set of allegations made against Trump publicly — so did the backlash from Trump’s team. So, when The Post reported in October 2017 that the dossier was indirectly   paid for   by Clinton’s campaign and the DNC, this was seen as proof that the effort to undercut Trump was simply politics.

That belief was particularly fortified once Trump’s allies in Congress released   a memo   claiming that the FISA warrant targeting Page was based largely on the contents of the dossier. (It also claimed that the judge asked to approve the warrant wasn’t told that it was paid for by Clinton’s team, which is misleading.) At that point, a narrative began to gel: The Russia probe was all based on Clinton’s dirty tricks.

It wasn’t true.

Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), now a host on Fox News, made clear at the time that the dossier was incidental to the probe itself: “There is a Russia investigation without a dossier,” he said on CBS News. “... The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos’s meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn’t have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there’s going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.”

There were other allegations about the FISA warrant, too. Critics of the Russia investigation often suggested that, by targeting Page, the government really hoped to target others in Trump’s campaign — that they could use rules allowing multiple “hops” of connections to see what others were saying. This ignored: that the warrant was obtained after Page left the campaign; that people such as Manafort would be viable, stronger targets for information than an informal adviser; and that Page had a demonstrated record of ties to Russia that suggested a warrant might be useful.

There was an indictment obtained related to the warrant: An FBI agent   pleaded guilty   to altering an email with what he claimed was information he believed to be accurate as part of the application process.

This, it turns out, was the most significant accomplishment of an effort to undermine the Russia investigation launched by Attorney General William P. Barr. In May 2019, soon after taking office, Barr   appointed   U.S. Attorney John H. Durham to look into the origins of the Russia probe. Barr and Durham invested a great deal of time and money in doing so, without much luck.

The other big push from Durham, though, loops back to the idea that Clinton was somehow responsible for the Russia investigation. Last year, Durham’s investigation   obtained an indictment   against an attorney who worked for the firm that hired the investigatory firm that produced the Steele dossier. It centered on that weird blip of a news story about the Russian bank — Alfa Bank — being connected to Trump’s private business.

Earlier this year, Durham’s investigators revealed their theory: The evidence of a link was contrived by Clinton allies to impugn Trump and then dishonestly shopped to the FBI. Durham’s legal filings even suggested that there had been data collected from the White House as part of the effort.

There was a flurry of agitation about how the Trump White House was spied on — but Durham’s team later   admitted   the data was collected during the Obama administration. The claims that the data were artificial was never validated. Most importantly, though, the investigation into Trump’s campaign team preceded the Alfa Bank claim by a wide margin. The FBI appears   not to have bit   on the idea and, as noted above, it was never taken very seriously by the media, either.

One can understand the appeal to Trump’s allies of tying this back to Clinton. But none of this addresses the reality that the trigger for the probe was, instead, Papadopoulos’s conversation with that Australian diplomat — contact that came to the FBI’s attention in the midst of a number of other warning signs.

The investigation was started by FBI agents who hated Trump and wanted to hurt him.   Before the Clinton-did-it theory, the favored theory was that the Russia probe was a function of biased FBI agents.

In fact, two FBI officials — Peter Strzok and Lisa Page — shared text messages in 2016 disparaging Trump (and other candidates). Strzok played a role in the launch of Crossfire Hurricane; both were assigned to Mueller’s team (though Page only briefly).

By the time Trump left office, Page and Strzok had been investigated nearly as thoroughly as Trump himself. Two reports from the Justice Department inspector general   evaluated   their text messages and an incident in which some of their messages were   briefly lost . The IG also considered the idea that the probe had been a function of bias.

In short,   it wasn’t . The inspector found no evidence that anything except the information from the Australian diplomat triggered the probe and that that information was sufficient for an investigation to begin. It criticized the exchanges between Strzok and Page but didn’t find that the investigations were   tainted by bias .

The release of the text messages resulted in a QAnon-like effort to pick out seemingly suspicious passages, most of which aren’t worth mentioning. One, though, proved useful in answering one of the key rebuttals to the idea that Strzok and Page were hoping to damage Trump: If so, why didn’t news of the probe leak before the election?

So Trump and his allies settled on a mention of an “insurance policy” in one message. Their argument was that this showed that the intent was to have leverage over Trump if he won. Instead, Strzok explained ( credibly ), the message advocated investigating Trump’s links to Russia as an insurance policy in the unlikely event he won the presidency — but had been compromised by Russia.

The Mueller report didn’t show collusion.   The most common argument that the Russia investigation was a “hoax” derives from the conclusions of the report itself. One of Barr’s most effective actions as attorney general was releasing   a summary   of the Mueller team’s   final report   on its probe before the report became public — allowing him to frame its findings in a way that reflected positively on Trump.

“[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,” Barr’s summary reads. But that’s not what the report says — at least, not entirely.

“Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome,” the quoted passage reads in full, “and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

Later, the report added: “A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.”

What the report showed was a robust web of ties between Trump’s campaign and Russian actors, from a meeting at Trump Tower to Manafort’s sharing of internal polling data with someone believed to be linked to Russian intelligence. A report   released   in August 2020 by a bipartisan Senate committee clarified and extended those links.

This is not to say that anyone proved that Trump or even Trump’s senior team colluded directly with Russia as it tried to aid his campaign. It is, instead, to say that none of this was a hoax, that there was good reason for the FBI to be suspicious and that there was good reason to open an investigation that’s unaffected by the claims Trump later raised. It is to say that treating the Justice Department’s Russia probe as riddled with anti-Trump bias depends on elevating nonessential questions as essential and isolated problems as systemic. It depends, primarily, on coming into the question with the presumption that Trump was wronged.

Which — particularly now — is precisely the presumption that Trump hopes you’ll adopt.


Philip Bump is a correspondent for The Washington Post based in New York. He writes the weekly How To Read This Chart, to which you should subscribe.  Twitter




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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    4 years ago
What the report showed was a robust web of ties between Trump’s campaign and Russian actors, from a meeting at Trump Tower to Manafort’s sharing of internal polling data with someone believed to be linked to Russian intelligence. A report      released      in August 2020 by a bipartisan Senate committee clarified and extended those links.
 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Participates
1.1  goose is back  replied to  JohnRussell @1    4 years ago
What the report showed was a robust web of ties between Trump’s campaign and Russian actors,

OK.......what part was Illegal??????? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  goose is back @1.1    4 years ago

There was/is no "Russia hoax". The investigation was predicated by the actions of the Trump campaign. The DOJ inspector general verified this too.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  JBB    4 years ago

Isn't this exactly what I have been saying for years? Yes, yes it is...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
3  Greg Jones    4 years ago

“and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

The collusion hoax, which was instigated by Hillary and her co-conspirators, has been thoroughly debunked

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @3    4 years ago

That isnt what this article says. Maybe you know more than a reporter who has studied this for years. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Guide
4  Sparty On    4 years ago

Ah yes, the “Russian hoax, hoax” hoax.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
5  Dismayed Patriot    4 years ago

The facts most conservative Republicans refuse to accept:

Russia did intentionally help Donald Trump with the 2016 election. They hacked US private email servers, stole private citizen emails and released them at crucial moments during the campaign with the intent of helping the Trump campaign. Russia spent over $1.25 million a month during the campaign on fake media ads that looked domestic in origin with the intent of hurting the Clinton campaign, stirring up racial tensions and helping the Trump campaign. They approached Trump campaign staff offering dirt on Clinton and several of Trumps campaign staff were excited about the possibility of getting such dirt. The Trump campaign manager was in regular contact with a Russian agent and supplied him with sensitive voter polling data and was found to be " a grave counterintelligence threat” according to a republican senate led investigation.

“Kilimnik was in sustained contact with Manafort before, during, and after the GRU cyber and influence operations"
"Although the report stops short of suggesting that Trump or his campaign “colluded” with Russia, it echoes Mueller’s findings that the campaign sought and welcomed Russian interference in the 2016 election, amplifying the results of its hacking operation despite the knowledge of its likely foreign provenance and seeking advance knowledge of the hacked materials." Manafort was ‘grave counterintelligence threat’ due to Russian contacts, Senate panel says - POLITICO

When Putin was asked " did you want President Trump to win the election and did you direct any of your officials to help him do that?” his response was “Yes, I did. Yes, I did."

So the investigation was warranted, found lots of evidence of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives, found offers of dirt on the Clinton campaign, found the Russians did take actions to help Trump win, found the Trump campaign 'loved it' and were looking for ways to capitalize on the illicit work like hacking Democrat emails that the GRU was doing for them, found many Trump campaign staff who lied to investigators in attempts to obstruct the investigation, but were ultimately unable to prove "criminal conspiracy". Calling it a "hoax" simply because they didn't find a tape of Trump spelling out what he would do to return the favor does not mean Trump and his campaign are all perfectly innocent choir boys.

How any patriotic America can see all that and not be shocked and disgusted by what the investigation did find is beyond me.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Senior Guide
5.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5    4 years ago
Russia did intentionally help Donald Trump with the 2016 election. They hacked US private email servers, stole private citizen emails and released them at crucial moments during the campaign with the intent of helping the Trump campaign.

Do you mean Hillary's server?

Russia spent over $1.25 million a month during the campaign on fake media ads that looked domestic in origin with the intent of hurting the Clinton campaign, stirring up racial tensions and helping the Trump campaign.

Is that like what the Dems have done in this season's primaries?

How any patriotic America can see all that and not be shocked and disgusted by what the investigation did find is beyond me.

Exactly.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
5.1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.1    4 years ago
Do you mean Hillary's server?

No. Only the uninformed or blatantly obtuse would be asking that.

Is that like what the Dems have done in this season's primaries?

No, Democrats were not a foreign enemy government posting surreptitious political media ads during the campaign pretending to be domestic in origin.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly. Trying to pretend that the investigation was a hoax and that there was "nothing to see here" even though dozens of damning facts were revealed proves one cares not about country but is only concerned with covering their political parties dirty ass.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6  Sean Treacy    4 years ago

Watch liberals play it's "it's okay to lie and submit fake evidence to the courts  because......"

followed by:

"But that Trump, he's a real a threat to the rule of law!"

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
6.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    4 years ago
"it's okay to lie"

That would be the message from those continuing to protect and defend the many many Trump campaign staff along with Roger Stone who lied their asses off to investigators. After being caught and prosecuted they are now defended by useless dipshit conservatives who don't give a fuck about truth or our country because they were too busy shoving their heads up Trumps voluminous ass.

Roger Stone - convicted liar.

Mike Flynn - convicted liar.

Paul Manafort - convicted liar.

Rick Gates - convicted liar.

Michael Cohen - convicted liar.

George Papadopoulos - convicted liar.

"But that Trump, he's a real a threat to the rule of law!"

Yes, he is, as proved by the cadre of liars and criminals he surrounded himself with. The other show will drop soon and more will be revealed about the Liar-in-Chief much like it was about Nixon, those continuing to defend the Cheeto Benito will likely slowly slink away and pretend they never supported the criminal President and will likely start claiming "well you know he used to be a Democrat! It was all a Democrat evil political trick to make conservatives look bad! Yeah, that's it!"...

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Principal
6.2.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @6.2    4 years ago

Thanks for proving my point.  A great example of deflection.   Well done. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
6.2.4  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to    4 years ago
Inflation  Reduction Act " ! pfffffft !

Yep........real effective.......

" There’s a chance the legislation could eventually tamp down prices by about 0.1 percentage points in about five years, according to  an analysis  by the University of Pennsylvania’s Penn Wharton Budget Model. But even then, analysts note they have “a low level of confidence that the legislation would have any measurable impact on inflation.”

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
6.2.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sean Treacy @6.2.1    4 years ago
A great example of deflection.

Maybe I'm all alone on this, but I happen to believe the supposed "lie" about where the evidence of Russian connections to the Trump campaign came from is far less egregious than the dozens of lies from the Trump campaign trying to hide their connections to Russian agents.

This isn't deflection, its factual evidence of the mountain of liars desperately trying to protect Donald Trump vs the possible lack of candor about where some of the information about Trumps many, many connections to Russia that were found after being tipped off by the supposed 'biased' dossier.

The fact is the Republican led Senate investigation proved the initial investigation was warranted, proved there were dozens of connections between the Trump campaign and Russia and proved Putin intentionally aided the Trump campaign, aid which was warmly welcomed by the Trump campaign.

I don't really give a fuck whether some deplorable dipshits are more concerned with the process than they are with the results. I'm sick and tired of the whining and crying over the supposed 'fruit of the poisonous tree' claiming the investigation should never have happened so it doesn't matter what was found. As if anyone would give a fuck about the process regardless of how they found out who raped their daughter. Would anyone just sit back and say "Ah, well, they shouldn't have been allowed to search that rapists house because the police fibbed on the warrant so I guess that guy whose DNA was found in my daughter must be innocent so I shouldn't hold anything against him...". I think not. Donald raped our country and Putin helped, it's that fucking simple.

The defenders of Trump and the complainers of the investigation 'process' are no better than the scum bags rallying around a child rapist who got the DNA evidence thrown out of court on a technicality. Go ahead, cheer your Liar-in-Chief, you know what really is, you know he's a disgusting, vile piece of shit criminal only kept out of jail by the braindead sycophantic dipshits with their heads up his ass that continue to lie for him.

Those truly deflecting are those who continue to point the finger at the FBI for a handful of missteps and what should be an irrelevant 'appearance' of bias. If someone believes the FBI are truly in the wrong and the Russian connections were all made up and Trump is an innocent victim, they should go get a cat scan to confirm whether it's a giant brain tumor or perhaps chronic traumatic encephalopathy that has made them so fucking stupid.

 
 

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