When will the rest of the country turn on MAGA ?
There was a fellow named Jonah Goldberg on CNN this morning. He is , as best I can tell, a moderate conservative. He is roughly speaking a never Trumper, although much less high profile than others in that category.
Goldberg made the point today that Trump is entirely unfit to hold office in the United States, for numerous reasons which we are all aware of. Those are not the point here, those are a given. The thing of interest Goldberg did say is that it may be counter productive to indict Trump criminally because he is popular with the Republican base and a certain "martyrdom" may develop around him if he is held to account in courts of law, a martyrdom that could make him more likely to succeed in becoming the GOP nominee in 2024 and maybe even more likely to win the election.
So we have this conservative commentator on national television essentially saying leave Trump alone because the alternative could be worse. Goldberg did not take the deluded MAGA fanatics to task for protecting a totally unfit politician, he suggested giving in to them.
This is a crux problem in this country. For seven years we as a country have allowed the perception to take hold that support of Donald Trump is reasonable and even desirable in the eyes of many. What we have gotten for that allowance is a cult filled with lies, tit for tat deflections, and endless conspiracy theories. Not to mention rank stupidity becoming a national political norm.
In the end it all comes down to the MAGA themselves. And dont say MAGA is independent from the Trump cult, MAGA is the Trump cult. Make America Great Again is totally associated with the rise of Donald Trump as a political force. Without allegiance to Trump, Make America Great Again is meaningless. Trumpism gives it its present day context, period.
We have millions of people who dont care if Trump lies thousands of times, if he tries to overthrow the US government, if he calls for the suspension of the US constitution in order to foster him being summarily restored to the presidency, if he extorts foreign leaders, if he pays off porn stars in order to help his election chances, if he dog whistles racism, if he says we need more "Norwegians" immigrating to America and less people from "shithole" countries, if he denies knowing white supremacists like David Duke, if he says Barack Obama founded ISIS, if he plays footsie with a deranged conspiracy cult like QAnon and retweets QAnon messages, if he tries to co-erce election officials and elected officials around the country into making him the winner of an election he lost, and on and on and on and on.
To MAGA all these items are proof that he is being persecuted by such criticism. He makes liberals "cry" , that is all they care about.
This country has failed, totally, to address the problem of "MAGA" and its allegiance to a degenerate politician, and the country is suffering badly for it. And there is no end in sight.
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There is too much political apathy in this country.
... and ignorance
What problem do you have with making America great again?
I don't doubt that Trump was first elected because the people were fed up with the Democrats, especially Hillary and her ilk.
And I also don't doubt the Biden got elected because of Trump's lingering stench....certainly not because the electorate thought Biden was some kind of uniter who would rule in a moderate manner.
I think the American people have seen enough of the damage the Dems are doing to our democracy, our way of life, and our global reputation. and will vote to throw scummy leftist assholes out.
First of all, MAGA really is taking over the country. Even Biden is becoming MAGA. Only a few short weeks ago Biden delivered a State of the Union address that was heavily laced with America First ideas. Biden really has been falling back onto policies started by Trump.
The perpetually disadvantaged aren't seeing the big picture because they're staring at their navels and asking 'what's in it for me?' Attempting to frame MAGA as only being Trump isn't going to stop the advance of MAGA. MAGA candidates are challenging Trump. Trump is going to fade away but MAGA is here to stay.
If MAGA is independent from Trump, then you must know of millions of MAGA who have denounced him. Give us a workable figure.
Why are millions gravitating to DeSantis.
If in fact Trump is arrested on Tuesday, and if there is a riot, you can consider him done.
They gravitate to DeSantis, FOR NOW. If Trump is the GOP nominee, ALL the DeSantis supporters in the primary will support Trump again. No one on the right plainly denounces Trump, outside of a small handful of US Senators and congresspeople. So small you can count them on your fingers.
Why wont people on the right tell Trump to get lost?
Because he is more important to them than truth and decency.
'Denounce' is a navel lint absolute. The pertinent question is how many ignore Trump. The Republican primaries will provide a definitive answer about Republican support for Trump.
Current estimates are that a third of Republican (including leaning) voters support Trump. That's somewhere between 10 and 20 pct of all voters. That's still more support than for Republicans like Mitt Romney or Liz Cheney which shows how the Republican base has shifted. Status quo Republicans are out, MAGA Republicans are in.
The Republican shift toward MAGA will force Democrats to adopt more MAGA ideas, too. Both parties are moving toward MAGA politics. And Democrats aren't adopting MAGA politics because they support Trump. When Eric Adams, Mayor of New York, adopts a more MAGA stance then it's difficult to claim only Trump is MAGA.
If the Manhattan DA doesn't get this right trump is as good as re-elected.
I dont think I would go that far, but it will make him more popular among the right.
No, I dont believe there are any current polls that show his support that low.
I know, right?
Can you imagine the triggering of the left if Tuesday comes and goes without an indictment?
Which blue cities do you think will burn if there isn't any indictment?
I see no realistic avenue for Trump to be re-elected. I see his nomination as a possibility, but he will almost certainly lose in the general election.
I don't think there's any doubt that there will be an indictment. The question is the probability of a conviction.
I don't think so either but I believe it will be nothing but a misdemeanor charge that does nothing but check a box for the rabid loony left.
And to take heat off Biden and his crime family dealings.
Newsweek from 2/1/23...
Just seems very sketchy that the Soros backed American hater decided to start yipping right after Republicans published banking transactions from the Chinese to Biden family member, one labeled only as Biden, which almost assuredly is Joe.
Even though the MSM has so far ignored that story, this Trump deflection will almost ensure they will never look at the Biden crime family in an honest way.
you are showing a poll that is two months old. try again.
You are clearly using 'MAGA' differently than the author.
Biden has been falling back onto policies started by Trump. Biden hasn't been doing that because he supports Trump. Doesn't that indicate that MAGA is bigger than Trump?
You are taking a movement 'MAGA', looking at its ideological / political properties, and when you find some overlap simplistically declaring 'MAGA!'.
No, Nerm, Biden is not part of the 'MAGA' movement.
'MAGA' is simply the label coined by Trump to represent his campaign. The policies associated with MAGA existed prior to Trump and will exist well after Trump is gone. 'MAGA' is simply a transient label.
Today, 'MAGA' is useful as a label because it identifies irrational Trump supporters.
No, what he is doing is going for the centrist electorate and if he is successful it will leave anyone on the GoP side stuck in the mire of MAGA. Buying into 'Brandon' as being a buffoon will come to bite your balls and hard.
Interesting idea.
That is undoubtedly true for some people and not true for others.
It's kind of like the difference between how conservatives and liberals see the term "woke".
Well, zippity do dah. Democrats have invested in making MAGA all about Trump. Biden ran on not being Trump which means Biden can't claim he is falling back to Trump's MAGA policies. Biden has to call it something else or Democrats would eat him alive.
MAGA by any other name is still the same policies.
NAFTA is GONE. Free trade is under fire. NATO has to carry more weight. Rural America really is important. The United States really does need to produce oil. The United States really does need factories, mines, and oil wells. Republicans are talking about tax increases. And Republicans have taken the position of protecting Social Security from Democrats.
Call it anything that soothes the neoliberal angst. But it's still MAGA. And Trump started the ball rolling. The Republican status quo is in its death throws. Not even Democrats can keep the Reagan legacy alive, no matter how often Democrats quote Reagan.
It is all about Trump; it was all about Trump from the beginning. Trump invented and named the GOP policies he sought to emphasize. Trump did not invent any new policies, MAGA is simply his campaign slogan. So Trump and those politicians who leech off of Trump are simply tying to a campaign slogan to attract those to which it appealed.
Again, there is nothing special about MAGA policies; they are all basic GOP policies. It is absurd to deem any intersection of one set of policies with MAGA as ipso facto MAGA policies.
It is a weighted set of policies drawn from the GOP policy corpus.
Maybe Dwight Eisenhower's GOP policy corpus. But not Reagan's or either of the Bush's.
You know, 13 Republicans co-sponsored legislation to end the War on Terror. How does that fit into the GOP policy corpus?
Are you actually trying to argue that Trump's policies were not drawn from the GOP policy corpus? I did not suggest he was mimicking a particular PotUS but rather that he promised GOP supporters whatever they wanted to hear. He promised GOP policies.
Trump's innovation, if you will, was which GOP policies he chose to focus on and the weights he gave them.
Yeah, pretty much. 'The Trump' is the guy you invite into your house and refuses to leave. Everything is about Trump. He demands it.
Yes and I provided a few specific examples. You've made the comment twice; time to back it up. What are/were Trump's specific policies that support your general claim they were drawn from the GOP policy corpus?
You need me to show you how Trump policies were core GOP policies? Given this is not obvious to you, you need to do some research.
Here are key policies of Trump (in no particular order, not intended to be complete):
Do the math.
Trump told his base what they wanted to hear.
By the way, a key omission in the above list is fiscal responsibility. Trump did not worry about that and that differs from the stated historical policy of the GOP (albeit the GOP has dropped the ball on this well before Trump).
Most of this list are policy areas and not policies. Illegal immigration is a policy area where the specific policies were to build a border wall, remain in Mexico, and travel restrictions on certain countries.
Biden has put forward specific policies for these policy areas, too. And Biden has been falling back onto some specific policies that were started or strengthened during the Trump administration.
The one policy area notably absent from the list is foreign policy.
Yes, Trump engaged in politics. That shouldn't be surprising. Does MAGA consist of a set of top-down ideas or does MAGA consist of grass-roots ideas? MAGA didn't come from a think-tank, policy wonks, or corporate backed lobbyists. MAGA didn't emerge from academia or the elite segments of society. MAGA didn't come from the 'right kind of people'. So, Trump was listening to the grass roots and agreeing with them. Trump was trying to turn those grass-roots ideas into policy. But Trump isn't very good at policy; he's a carney barker and not a policy wonk.
Democrats have invested into turning MAGA into something supported by the 'wrong kind of people'. And Democrats have used Trump as a poster-child for the 'wrong kind of people'. Surely you recognize that only the 'wrong kind of people' support MAGA?
Weak.
Overgeneralization is a weak argument. And your list is an overgeneralization that results in false debate. As an example, you've claimed Trump (and MAGA by association) have policies of border security, strong military, veteran support. What's the opposite? Opposing Trump (and MAGA by association) would require little border security, a weak military, and little support for veterans. The overgeneralization results in a false debate.
Biden has the same listed policy areas, too. The overgeneralization would mean that Biden supports the same things as Trump. That's a false debate.
I answered your question in detail yet you should have already known the answer. It is entirely obvious that Trump policies are drawn from core GOP policies. And, as I suspected, you are arguing the answer. Argue for the sake of argument with someone else.
Perhaps a better question would be this. Will the MAGA fulfill their promise to turn over America to 'The Trump?'