MAGA Is Ripping Itself Apart
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
excerpt
...What used to rule the day on the American right was “owning the libs.” But now they are owning one another.
Some of us have spent the better part of eight years warning about the incalculable damage that would be done to the United States, to its politics and culture, and to the Christian witness by those who embraced a Trumpian ethic, defined by cruelty, lawlessness, the shattering of norms and traditional boundaries, and an eagerness to annihilate truth and trust in institutions. Those warnings have been validated, those concerns vindicated. What happened on January 6 wasn’t an anomaly; it was an apotheosis.
Now this movement, which has taken such delight in aiming its nihilistic arrows at the Democratic Party and the Republican establishment, at media outlets and scientists, is in the process of devouring itself. A l’exemple de Saturne, la revolution devore ses enfants.
It is a lesson nearly as old as time itself: Those whose passions are inflamed—and Trump supporters are nothing if not perennially inflamed—are drawn to destruction. “Rage and phrenzy will pull down more in a half an hour, than prudence, deliberation, and foresight can build up in a hundred years,” the 18th-century conservative statesman and philosopher Edmund Burke warned.
Lack of restraint is the essence of the Trump movement. Shattering guardrails is what they find thrilling. But what MAGA adherents forget is that those guardrails exist to protect not only others, but also ourselves from excess, self-indulgence, and self-harm. There’s a reason temperance—self-mastery, the capacity to moderate inordinate desires, balance that produces internal harmony—is one of the four cardinal virtues.
The extremism, aggression, and lack of restraint in MAGA world are spreading rather than receding. They are becoming more rather than less indiscriminate. Those who are part of that movement, and certainly those who lead it, act as if they’re invincible, as if the rules don’t apply to them, as if they can say anything and get away with anything. That has certainly been true of Trump, and it is often true of those who have patterned themselves after Trump, which is to say, virtually the entire Republican Party.
But it goes even beyond this. MAGA world directs its ridicule at those who exercise temperance, who embrace restraint, and who ask themselves what they should do rather than what they can get away with. Those who reject the ethic of Thrasymachus—the cynical Sophist in Plato’s Republic who believes might makes right and injustice is better than justice—are dismissed as weak and delicate. The denizens of MAGA world not only relish discarding guardrails; they scorn those who abide by them.
The priority for those who love our country is to contain the wreckage and defeat the MAGA movement. We’re still in mid-drama, so that day is a ways off. But it will come. Because in the end, those who live without limits are destroyed by them....
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Some people will vote for whoever is the nominee of their party. What has been shown in recent years is just how true my first statement is. We can actually speak with individuals who state that they do not want Trump as PotUS but will vote for him if he is the GOP nominee.
One would hope that instead of: "I will vote for Trump if he is the GOP nominee", the attitude was: "I will work to ensure Trump never becomes the GOP nominee".
Not only is this good for the nation, it is good for the GOP. Why is this not obvious to those who would vote for Trump if nominated??
Hopefully I won't have to vote for Trump again, but I certainly can't find any rational reason to vote for Biden.
I suspect you would feel the same way if DeSantis gets the nomination, which is likely to be the final outcome, so this hand wringing is not really about Trump, but the Republicans in general.
I would think the Democrats would be more concerned about Biden and Harris...the interest and enthusiasm for them is lacking. I can't find any evidence that the Dems really care about our country
Donald Trump tried to overthrow the United States government.
That is the very attitude that gives Trump power. The fact that you will vote for him if nominated. You acquiesce instead of fighting to ensure Trump is NOT your choice.
Not everyone is a partisan. I suspect it is difficult for you to imagine someone voting for the person and not blindly voting for the party, but we exist.
Will you please stop acting as if the necessity to get rid of Trump is a partisan issue
What a total misread of what I wrote. Given all I have written on Trump, how on Earth could you take this one comment and so totally blow the meaning?
Just to ensure you know my position, the necessity to get rid of Trump is because he is an abysmal human being who has demonstrated that he should never be given political power (especially the presidency).
Bookmark this comment.
Why do you have to bring partisan politics into discussions about Trump? You are , I guess, inadvertently implying that Trump is supported or opposed for partisan reasons.
That is how Britannica defines political partisanship. Independents ,such as yourself and others here, decry partisanship from both sides. Bothsidesism, in relation to Trump and MAGA, is the inference that one side has Trump and trumpism, and the other side has extremists who are an equally unacceptable opposite from Trump. When independents talk about partisanship, it is always from the "pox on both your houses" perspective. At this point in time we cannot allow these election decisions to be made on the basis of bothsidesism.
"At this point in time we cannot allow these election decisions to be made on the basis of bothsidesism."
In spite of your ongoing denials, there are at least two sides to every political process, and you seem to be on the wrong side.
My beef with Trump is his behavior after he was beaten by Biden in an election that was full of controversy that exists to this day.
I have NO complaints about his agenda or performance prior to that time. From what I have learned of DeSantis he will continue what is called MAGA or Trumpism.
This country as whole is still mostly moderate, and leans to the right in its values and expectations.
Don't be fooled by Biden's win....it involved a lot of residual distaste of Trump and his stupid actions
Because people who are supporting / defending Trump are almost certainly doing so for partisan reasons. For example, what do you think the statement "I do not want Trump but will vote for him if nominated" reflects? It reflects partisan thinking: "I will vote for the R regardless of any other considerations".
No, John, I am saying that GOP support for Trump is partisan. Opposition to Trump is largely (I would expect) based on Trump himself.
We have discussed this before. When I speak of partisanship in this forum I am using that as a short hand for blind, irrational support for a particular party or a politician of a particular party. I am not referring to strategic partisanship (i.e. support for a party because, when all things are considered, the individual believes the party is currently best for the nation to be the majority). Supporting Trump for PotUS is NOT strategic partisanship, it is blind partisanship.
You have this bothsidesism issue and you continually find some way to read it into others comments. Just the mere mention of both parties triggers you into claim bothsidesism. Get a grip.
Both the D and R parties are disappointments. You will read that statement as bothsidesism yet it is not. If I were to go into details I would start with the D party putting forth a man who would start a term as PotUS at 82 with, potentially, a horrible V.P. who is likely to ascend to the presidency by default. I find that to be problematic. The GOP, on the other hand, might actually nominate an abysmal human being who attempted to steal a US presidential election through lies, coercion, etc. and who, by his actions, should never be allowed to hold a political office, much less the presidency.
Bothesidesism implies that the D issue (above) is equivalent to the GOP issue (above). But note that I did not even imply that these are equivalent. You (when reading) force equivalence and then declare bothesidesism.
You need to stop reading your peeves into what others write. That practice is beyond obnoxious.
A political independent, in 2024, would likely operate as follows:
In short, both parties are screwed up, but the GOP is far more screwed up in 2022 than the Ds. IMO. If you call that bothsidesism then you will see bothsidesism everywhere you look.
Bingo. Even in a comment where you claim to have nothing to do with bothsidesism you make both sides arguments.
Do you think statements like that will help America to get rid of Donald Trump? I dont.
That the policies of Joe Biden are far worse than anything that Donald Trump could ever do.
See, John, the mere mention of the other side triggers bothesidesism with you. Get a grip.
I am not going to be silent in my criticism of the D party simply because that is implicitly beneficial to its opposition. I will criticize the D party and criticize the GOP as I see fit.
It is not credible to pretend that the D party does not have issues. If you want to be credible you need to be honest about the good AND the bad in your party.
I am quite aware the your support for Trump is based on his policies while disregarding everything else about the man. That is a very common GOP position. Your boldface is unnecessary.
As I have stated before, you should support someone other than Trump, but with Trump policies.
You should be encouraging GOP members to ensure Trump is not nominated because he is horrible for the GOP and the nation and because he is an abysmal human being who attempted to steal a US presidential election through lies, coercion, etc. and who, by his actions, should never be allowed to hold a political office, much less the presidency.
By claiming you will vote for Trump if nominated, you give him power and enable him to actually be the nominee. You enable him to fill the nominee slot with himself and thus degrade the GOP and cause it to lose another presidential election. Thus you are enabling D policies. So not only is it unpatriotic and irresponsible to support Trump, it is irrational because you are shooting yourself in the foot.
And as I have stated before, I do! That man is Ron DeSantis.
You should be encouraging GOP members to ensure Trump is not nominated
That has become nearly impossible now that democrats have made a martyr out of him. The rising poll numbers reflect the response to the political prosecution of Trump. That will almost guarantee his nomination.
By claiming you will vote for Trump if nominated, you give him power and enable him to actually be the nominee.
It will do nothing of the kind. Whoever the GOP nominates I must vote for. The alternative is the totalitarian state.
Bothsideism will get Donald Trump elected , giving you 4 more years to say he shouldnt have been.
Have you ever seen a MAGA rally? Listened to people there interviewed? Trump will win the nomination because his followers are morons and there are millions of them. Stop trying to blame the Democrats for the monster you created out of MAGA's endless objections to the 21st century.
Yes, I have.
Listened to people there interviewed?
Nope.
Trump will win the nomination because his followers are morons
The only morons I know of are either in generation Z or vote on the orders of Jim Clyburn.
the 21st century.
Your version looks too much like 1984
You've obviously never paid much attention to most Trump supporters. Or more likely, you see nothing wrong with Trump hugging a Jan 6th traitor who wants US congresspeople executed because they voted to certify the election.
But you would vote for Trump if nominated. That is what I am referring to. The fact that you and others would actually vote for Trump if nominated enables him to be nominated. You are not fighting against Trump.
Blind partisanship.
You have a knack for alienating those who (mostly) agree with you.
Vic loves Trump. Thats why he calls him a "martyr". There has never been any doubt that he will vote for Trump, and enthusiastically.
Our country is in a crisis, that will likely last for a number of more years. I know Joe Biden isnt a perfect choice but he is far far far better than the alternative.
Thus I dont make a habit of pointing out his flaws.
In other words I should sit back and allow a continuation of rampant crime, a wide open border, sex surgeries on children, tent cities befouling our city sidewalks, mass fentanyl deaths, a politicized FBI, a corrupt DOJ, a return to the financial/housing crisis of 2008 and deep state officials doing anything they want?
You are not fighting against Trump.
I'm fighting against the left!
Blind partisanship.
And you keep ignoring what I say. You must like things as they are. There is the partisanship!
No, you should be criticizing the crap out of Trump to ensure that he is not the GOP nominee.
And if Trump is the nominee, how well will that serve your fight? Think!!
What a stupid (and emotional) comment; shows you have no idea of what it is like to not be partisan.
Do you somehow think I disagree with that (if the alternative is Trump)??
Do you think I make a habit of pointing out his flaws??
That is one thing I would never be.
Vic loves Trump's policies. Of course, his policies were core GOP policies.
Vic does not care that Trump should never hold political office. Because, per Vic, Vic likes Trump's policies.
Somehow the concept of another person executing "Trump's policies" cannot be recognized.
Once you characterize yourself, you become the topic and people get to say that you are partisan.
I'll let others judge the argument.
It goes like this:
If DeSantis can will the GOP nomination all is well and good, but if Trump wins it is the worst outcome, even worse than the 2 plus years the nation has endured.
You can claim whatever you are capable of typing. That does not make your claim any less stupid.
No it's not. And you're as partisan as anyone here.
If I am partisan, then name the party to which I am beholding.
I've asked before for him to post approved responses to his incessant Trump questions so that once the answers he approves of are posted, then maybe he won't ask them again.
I know I am grasping at straws here, but anything to reduce the trolling.
Oh, Vic! Woke up....
We are currently living in a totalitarian state (per @2.1.13)???
The strangest totalitarian state that I have ever seen. I do not think it is as he portrays it.
One would think that people and especially corporations would value their freedom of speech and not let their leaders attempt to silence specific members. Oh! Silencing specific groups of people and using the power of their office is what both DJT and DeSantis have been and currently are doing.
It is most ironic that the people who scream the most loudly about an "Orwellian future" are bringing in the tenets of such by the people they promote for office under the guise of freedom. Ironic and sad.
Just blows my mind that anyone would use such hyperbole ... referring to our system as a totalitarian state.
Your comment reminded of what the CCP did to H&M retail giant several years ago. H&M angered the CCP by publishing a statemen t on the forced labor cotton plantations in the region of Xinjiang. Almost overnight, H&M disappeared from China’s internet including e-commerce, online promotions and store locations in China’s own Baidu Maps and Apple Maps.
States that track the online communications of its citizens, tracks people physical movements, controls all mass and social media and creates concentration camps, are totalitarian states.
Amazing the fantasy that some dream up in their minds.
Fantasy? Or delusion?
Let them.
This might be the only way the GOP can shed them, and get back to representing actual conservatives and moderates.
It is nice to read a hopeful article every now and again. /s
But really, I feel that the GOP should shove itself up the collective Democrats' asses, and then those sufficiently encumbered should jump in the ocean wearing cement shoes.
So MAGA is tearing itself apart. Maybe someone can give me the actual definition of MAGA
Is it any republican?
Is it anyone that voted for Trump in 2020?
Is it anyone that would vote for Trump, even if Biden is the Democrat nominee? Does than mean an independent can be a MAGA also?
Is it anyone that has a problem with the Jan 6th clown show?
Is it anyone that does not go lockstep with Biden and his handlers?
Is it anyone that doesn't spend every waking hour screaming how evil Trump is?
And while you are at it please define the difference between MAGA and Ultra MAGA and when the new and improved MAGA is expected.