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Trump’s election fraud claims were always bogus. Will his history of lies finally catch up to him?

  
Via:  John Russell  •  3 years ago  •  48 comments


Trump’s election fraud claims were always bogus. Will his history of lies finally catch up to him?
 

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As we await criminal charges for Trump's attempted theft of the 2020 election, here is a comprehensive recap of his 'stolen' election garbage over the years. 

This information is actually conclusive of his guilt. 


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


F ormer president   Donald Trump ’s attempts to undermine the results of elections that his rivals have won are now at the centre of a sprawling federal investigation, one that follows an avalanche of lies and conspiracy theories about the democratic process and a campaign to overturn the votes of millions of Americans.Lawsuits from his legal team and Trump allies were shot down in court. His own administration and campaign failed to produce any evidence.

But his false and inflated claims, spanning more than a decade, have sowed enough doubt among his supporters to construct the lie of “stolen” and “rigged” elections, animating Republican attempts to challenge results and craft legislation to do what Mr Trump failed to do in the courts.

A persistent lie that the election was stolen from him fuelled violence at the US Capitol on 6 January, 2021, sustained partisan investigations intended to reverse the outcomes in states he lost, inspired Republican-led legislation in nearly every state to change how elections are run, and has formed the basis of Mr Trump’s 2024 campaign.

Did he believe the “truth” of his claims? And how often was he told, by both his advisers and White House officials, that he was wrong?

These are questions that prosecutors are likely considering as US Department of Justice special counsel   Jack Smith   and his team weigh another federal indictment against the former president, but they won’t need to establish that he was aware that he was spreading misinformation to charge him for a range of potential election-related crimes.

Years of evidence, however, suggests that he knew what he was saying was false, or that he should have known he was not telling the truth, when he waged his assault on an election he lost to Joe Biden.

A history of ‘sham’ and ‘rigged’ elections


He told his followers to “march on Washington and stop this travesty.” He told them to “fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice”.


“The world is laughing at us,” he said. “This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy! Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble ... like never before.”

It was 7 November, 2012, and Barack Obama’s election night defeat of Mitt Romney sent Donald Trump into   a Twitter tailspin.

Most of those messages were later deleted, but similar statements were repeated often and in public in the years that followed, including on a stage in Washington DC that day a mob of his followers stormed the halls of Congress on 6 January, 2021.

Four years after raging over 2012 results, after he came in second place in the Iowa caucus for the Republican nomination for president, Mr Trump said his then-rival Ted Cruz “stole” the primary from him.


“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!” he said on Twitter in February 2016.

He called for a new election or for the votes to be “nullified”.

In August 2016, during a campaign stop in Ohio, he   said   he is “afraid the election’s going to be rigged” – a statement based on nothing.

But that summer, however, Republican operative Roger Stone called on then-candidate Trump to talk about voter fraud “constantly”.

He   told   Breitbart : “He needs to say for example, today would be a perfect example: ‘I am leading in Florida. The polls all show it. If I lose Florida, we will know that there’s voter fraud. If there’s voter fraud, this election will be illegitimate, the election of the winner will be illegitimate, we will have a constitutional crisis, widespread civil disobedience, and the government will no longer be the government.’”

Mr Trump “will go to the places other politicians won’t, and he’s probably the only person to run for president within the last 50 years who would dare to do this, and might even get away with it,” Stone added.

Then-candidate Trump would later tell Fox News host Sean Hannity that there are “1.8 million people who are dead, who are registered to vote, and some of them absolutely vote.”

“Of course there is large-scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!”   he said on Twitter   that same week.

A voter fraud commission that found no evidence of voter fraud


Shortly after entering office in 2017, Mr Trump established a Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, chaired by his then-Vice President Mike Pence. Kris Kobach, then the secretary of state of Kansas and a key architect of GOP election laws, was appointed as vice chair.


Other members of the commission included members of influential right-wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Public Interest Legal Foundation, which have also advanced restrictive voting laws under the “election integrity” banner.

In July 2017, Mr Kobach requested every state to provide a list of all registered voters, the last four digits of their Social Security numbers, their addresses, dates of birth, political affiliation, and voting history.

Mississippi’s Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann said the commission’s request “can go jump in the Gulf of Mexico”. Virginia’s then-Governor Terry McAuliffe said he had “no intention” to respond to the commission’s request.

“This entire commission is based on the specious and false notion that there was widespread voter fraud last November. At best this commission was set up as a pretext to validate Donald Trump’s alternative election facts, and at worst is a tool to commit large-scale voter suppression,” he   said in a statement   at the time.

He added that the only “irregularity” stemming from the 2016 presidential election involved Russian troll farms to sow political and social discord and boost Mr Trump’s candidacy.

On 3 January, 2018, Mr Trump announced that he was dissolving the commission.


“Despite substantial evidence of voter fraud, many states have refused to provide the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity with basic information relevant to its inquiry,” he   said in a statement   at the time. “Rather than engage in endless legal battles at taxpayer expense, today I signed an executive order to dissolve the Commission, and have asked the Department of Homeland Security to review these issues and determine next courses of action.”


The commission released its documents six months later, after a lawsuit from Maine’s secretary of State and commission member Matthew Dunlap argued that instead of “widespread evidence of fraud” the commission’s findings “actually reveals a troubling bias.”

Mr Dunlap said that the commission’s “purpose was not to pursue the truth but rather to provide an official imprimatur of legitimacy [from] President Trump’s assertions that millions of illegal votes were cast during the 2016 election and to pave the way for policy changes designed to undermine the right to vote.”

There exists “no single document that reveals there is no widespread voter fraud,” according to Mr Dunlap, but evidence that fails to substantiate the president’s claims.

A disinformation campaign before a single vote was cast


Before he publicly and repeatedly cast doubt on the legitimacy of mail-in ballots and the results of the 2020 election, then-President Trump was reportedly so impressed with his administration’s work in election security that he   planned a press conference around it.


Months before Election Day, intelligence officials met with Mr Trump and other White House officials on 14 February, 2020 to review potential threats to that year’s election and assured the president they had no concerns about its integrity.

That briefing came one day after a   House committee hearing   with intelligence officials who warned lawmakers that Russia was likely interfering in 2020 campaigns to boost Mr Trump’s chances of re-election. Days later, Mr Trump fired Joseph Maguire, the acting director of national intelligence who testified at that hearing. He was immediately replaced with Richard Grenell.

That press conference never happened; Mr Trump continued his narrative that elections, particularly those in which Republicans lose, are corrupt.


In March 2020, as election officials prepared for an increase in voting by mail during the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic, Mr Trump told Fox News that higher voter turnout would be a political disaster for Republicans.

“The things they had in there were crazy,”   he said   of Democratic proposals for emergency coronavirus aid. “They had levels of voting, that if you ever agreed to it you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”

Mr Trump vowed to block such emergency funding for the US Postal Service, specifically to prevent expanded access to voting by mail.

“They need that money in order to make the Post Office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots,” he   told   Fox Business in August 2020. “But if they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting, because they’re not equipped to have it.”

Mr Trump and Republicans have repeatedly claimed without evidence that “universal mail-in voting” – in which any eligible voter can request an absentee ballot – is ripe for fraud.


“Republicans should fight very hard when it comes to state wide mail-in voting. Democrats are clamoring for it,” Mr Trump   said   in April 2020. “Tremendous potential for voter fraud, and for whatever reason, doesn’t work out well for Republicans.”

Proponents have often defended those claims by pointing to a 2005 report from the Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A Baker III.

The report noted that because voting by mail takes place outside of polling locations, there is an increased potential for fraud, but does not say that any such fraud has occurred on the scale Mr Trump has alleged. The report goes on to state that when safeguards are in place – like in Oregon, where voters have exclusively voted by mail since 1998 – fraud was virtually nonexistent.

False claims and mischaracterisations about the report prompted former President Carter to issue a   rare public statement   in May 2020 urging political leaders “to take immediate steps to expand vote-by-mail and other measures that can help protect the core of American democracy – the right of our citizens to vote.”

After   court rulings struck down his attempts   to challenge vote-by-mail policies, and as he campaign   failed to find evidence , then-President Trump routinely used his bully pulpit at the White House and on stage at his campaign rallies to launch a flood of false claims spread widely among his supporters and on social media.

When a federal judge   ordered his campaign   to “produce such evidence in their possession, and if they have none, state as much,” attorneys produced evidence pointing to only a handful of election fraud cases – none of which involved mail-in ballots.

A legal effort to overturn results while aides told him he lost


By Election Day in 2020, then-President Trump made dozens of false or misleading statements about voter fraud and voting by mail within that year alone. He kept going within hours after polls closed on 3 November.


“A big WIN!” he wrote on Twitter at 12.45am that night. “We are up BIG, but they are trying to STEAL the Election. We will never let them do it. Votes cannot be cast after the Polls are closed!” he wrote minutes later.

At a news conference hours later, he claimed a “very sad group of people” are “trying to disenfranchise” his supporters before listing states that he falsely claimed to have won.

“Frankly, we did win this election,” he said. “So our goal now is to ensure the integrity, for the good of this nation. This is a very big moment. This is a major fraud on our nation.”

Over the following days and months, he continued to suggest that the late-counted mail-in ballots for Mr Biden that changed the outcome in states that he lost were evidence of fraud, after he spent months denigrating absentee ballots and urging his supporters to cast their votes in person.


A flurry of legal challenges and partisan legislative hearings targeted election laws and outcomes in states that he lost; none produced any evidence of widespread fraud.

His legal team largely walked away from the effort, except for Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, who are now facing   defamation claims   and   professional sanctions   for amplifying the same   baseless claims .

In November 2020, one week after the election, Mr Krebs   said in a statement   through his agency that “there is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.” That sentence was highlighted in bold in the statement.

Mr Trump fired him   with a tweet.

The House select committee investigating the events surrounding January 6 found that Mr Trump’s senior advisers told him on 12 November, 2020, that he lost the election – not from fraud, but because more people voted for Mr Biden.


Mr Trump was then reportedly furious with his Attorney General Bill Barr when he told the Associated Press in December 2020 that “to date” no agency has seen any evidence of fraud “on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election.”

That month, John Eastman – a Trump-linked attorney who organised the so-called “alternate” elector scheme – also warned the campaign against repeating debunked data in a suit targeting Georgia’s election results.

Mr Trump was “made aware that some of the allegations (and evidence proffered by the experts) has been inaccurate,” Mr Eastman wrote, according to court filings. “For him to sign a new verification with that knowledge (and incorporation by reference) would not be accurate.”

That email from Mr Eastman underscores what federal prosecutors are likely now examining: That Mr Trump’s team was aware that the arguments they were making were indefensible, and that the man who was insisting on them knew that.


Judge Carter also pointed to an email from a Trump attorney that said “merely having this case pending in the Supreme Court, not ruled on, might be enough to delay consideration of Georgia.”

“This email, read in context with other documents in this review, make clear that President Trump filed certain lawsuits not to obtain legal relief, but to disrupt or delay the January 6 congressional proceedings through the courts,”   wrote Mr Carter , alleging a similar tactic that Mr Trump has used to squash investigations and lawsuits against him for years.

The House committee spent a year and a half on its investigation, including a series of blockbuster public hearings laying out evidence and witness testimony describing the depth of Mr Trump’s attempts to remain in office at whatever cost. The   panel’s final 845-page report   provides a detailed account of Mr Trump’s refusal to cede power – regardless of the outcome of a democratic election – while his close advisers told him that he lost.


In his interview with the House select committee, Trump adviser Jason Miller said he had “several” conversations with Mr Trump that his claims were wrong. Mr Barr   told the committee   that Mr Trump’s claims were “detached from reality”.

Mr Barr and other administration officials also said they tried to debunk conspiracy theories surrounding Dominion Voting Systems, which recently settled with Fox News for   $787m in a landmark defamation case   against the network. But Mr Trump went on to tweet about Dominion nearly three dozen times from November 2020 up until the attack on the Capitol on January 6.

In a   text message reviewed by federal prosecutors , Mr Trump’s own chief of staff Mark Meadows joked with a White House lawyer about his false claims of voter fraud in Georgia.

The former president has continued a narrative of political persecution as he seeks the 2024 Republican nomination for president, with a reliable mention of “stolen” or “rigged” election in speeches and on his Truth Social platform.

Mr Trump, who has reliably turned to projection in his rhetorical playbook, is now referring to the multiple investigations and indictments against him as their own form of politically motivated “election interference” to stop him from reaching the White House.


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JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1  seeder  JohnRussell    3 years ago

This is like the mic drop of articles on this topic. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Expert
2  Kavika     3 years ago

What else can you expect from the flim flam man.

 
 
 
George
PhD Expert
3  George    3 years ago
Trump’s Election Fraud Claims Were Always Bogus

Of course they were, as were his birther lies, as were his claims about the attendance at his inauguration, and not knowing stormy daniels. etc. etc. etc. who is still surprised by the fact that trumps lies?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  George @3    3 years ago

Ever heard of MAGA? 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
3.1.2  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1.1    3 years ago
Hasn't anyone who has listened to liberals the last six years?

What's hilarious is that most leftists are so triggered by the term, they are the only ones that use it now.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.2  TᵢG  replied to  George @3    3 years ago

I think most human beings with even basic intelligence understand that Trump is a pathological liar.   Trouble is, a large minority of the GOP is still going to willingly put this lying narcissist  —who attempted, for the only time in USA history, as sitting PotUS, to steal a US election through lies, coercion and inciting supporters— as the GOP nominee.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
3.2.1  cjcold  replied to  TᵢG @3.2    3 years ago

I remember him saying, weeks before the 2016 election, that if he lost that it would be due to voter fraud. Hillary was ahead in the polls at that point.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Participates
4  Greg Jones    3 years ago

Republicans want to win this time around. Trump have become a millstone around the neck of the party and is doing his best to drag it down to defeat. Will enough of the faithful wake up in time to beat whoever the Dems send up? Stay tuned as this saga rolls on.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @4    3 years ago
Trump have become a millstone around the neck of the party and is doing his best to drag it down to defeat.

Indeed.  Step one is to work to prevent Trump from taking the only GOP nomination slot for PotUS.   This can be aided by GOP members announcing that they will NOT vote for Trump if nominated.   (But far too many refuse to do this and thus empower Trump.)

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.1  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1    3 years ago
Step one is to work to prevent Trump from taking the only GOP nomination slot for PotUS.   This can be aided by GOP members announcing that they will NOT vote for Trump if nominated.

Do you feel the same should be for die hard Biden supporters, or does this only apply to Trump supporters?

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Hallux  replied to  bugsy @4.1.1    3 years ago
Do you feel the same should be for die hard Biden supporters

If they show up wearing stupid caps, sure!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.1    3 years ago

Yes, the Ds should be trying to talk Biden out of running.   Have you not been able to deduce that from my collective comments?   Are you operating under the misguided belief that I want Biden to run?   There are better candidates like Governor Tim Walz who are seasoned, youthful, moderate and solid individuals.

You, et.al., never seem to understand that it is possible to actually hold positions that are not in lockstep with a particular political party.   The political world is NOT binary for everyone.   It is, however, the sign of a blind partisan to not be able to even conceive of a non-binary political reality.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.4  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.3    3 years ago
Yes, the Ds should be trying to talk Biden out of running. 

Not what I asked.

You stated Rs should work to not give Trump the R nomination, obviously referencing not voting for him during the primaries. 

I asked you should Ds do the same with Biden? Trying to talk him out of not running is not ensuring he does not take the D position. A more resounding tactic is to not vote for him during the D primaries.

Try again.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.5  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.3    3 years ago
You, et.al., never seem to understand that it is possible to actually hold positions that are not in lockstep with a particular political party. 

Says the guy who rarely, if ever, truly criticizes the democratic party, and only showing light criticism to Biden.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.3    3 years ago

The MAGA clowns couldnt care less about justice. If they did they wouldnt be supporting Trump. 

The claims against Biden are meant to do one thing only - drag Biden down to trumps level and let "both sidesism" work its magic for them. 

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.7  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.6    3 years ago
drag Biden down to trumps level and let "both sidesism" work its magic for them. 

Maybe because Biden is at the same level of Trump?

Or even worse with his obvious corruption?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.4    3 years ago
I asked you should Ds do the same with Biden? Trying to talk him out of not running is not ensuring he does not take the D position. A more resounding tactic is to not vote for him during the D primaries.

You need me to spoon feed this to you?

My answer was clear as a bell.   It gave you plenty of information to answer all the variations on your question you come up with.   

So ... spoon feeding ... I would love for the Ds to NOT vote for Biden in the primaries and especially to make that no vote intention clear NOW.   That is exactly what I would love the Rs to do.   Do NOT vote for Trump in the primaries and especially make that no vote intention clear NOW.

This is easy to understand.   If you cannot grasp my position now then you will never get it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  bugsy @4.1.7    3 years ago

maybe you dont know what you are talking about

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.10  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.8    3 years ago
I would love for the Ds to NOT vote for Biden in the primaries

OK you answered the question exactly the way I required it to be answered.

Now you know how it feels to be put in these bs positions.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.11  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.9    3 years ago
maybe you dont know what you are talking about

Oh, I know John. I prove it almost every day when I prove you wrong.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.5    3 years ago

Get a clue.

Trump is over-the-top bad for this nation.   It is pathetic that this even needs to be stated at this point.   And the GOP appears ready to nominate this miserable character.   The fact that the D party is also failing to do better than Biden/Harris is bad, but does not even come close the irrational, irresponsible, unpatriotic acts of the GOP nominating Trump.

So if you see me more critical of Trump than Biden it is because Trump is far worse than Biden.   Independent does not mean equal criticism of both parties.   It means disregard for what a particular party wants and making choices based on non-partisan facts.

By the way, just to illustrate how little you actually know of my positions, other than losing its collective mind by catering to Trump (and, worse, nominating him), what criticism have I made of the GOP?   State the criticism I have made.   Good luck.   

Now, on the flipside, what criticism have I made on D policies / Biden actions / Biden himself?   You should be able to list at least a few.

In short, you do not know what you are talking about.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Professor Participates
4.1.13  Right Down the Center  replied to  bugsy @4.1.10    3 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.10    3 years ago
Now you know how it feels to be put in these bs positions.

Quit whining.   You refused to acknowledge Trump's wrongdoing so I challenged you by giving a specific list of Trump's wrongdoing and asking if you consider these to be wrong.   You dodged and ran away and then eventually, kicking and screaming, finally acknowledged that a subset of the list was actually wrongdoing by Trump. 

And the entire list of wrongdoings was already demonstrably obvious.   Of course he did wrong.

I did not demand you answer a question a particular way.    (Yet another lie.)  I asked you if Trump had done wrong.   You just could not stand being dealt such a strong probative question.   

Too bad.   Quit whining.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.15  bugsy  replied to  Right Down the Center @4.1.13    3 years ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Participates
4.1.16  goose is back  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.12    3 years ago
Trump is over-the-top bad for this nation. 

Tell me was the "Nation" in better shape Oct 2019(just prior to Covid) or now?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  goose is back @4.1.16    3 years ago

Prior to COVID our economy was in great shape.   We had an irresponsible lying narcissist for PotUS who we now know is willing to compromise the nation if it suits his needs, but we were experiencing an economic up.

The economy ebbs and flows, Goosie.   Those who think the current PotUS is responsible for the current economy (good or bad) are economically naïve.

So let's see, you want to argue that we should elect Trump —regardless of the fact that he demonstrably should never be allowed to hold any office much less the presidency— so that he can (magically) bring back the good economy.   Is that it?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.20    3 years ago

What was your first clue, Texan ... reading my opening sentence?

What do you think I would write ... that the economy (the most fundamental measure of our nation) was in bad shape?   

Some of us operate on facts.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.23  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @4.1.22    3 years ago

Communication is more complex than a simple yes or no.

You are complaining that I gave a reasoned answer to a question rather than simply offer one word.

Surely there are more important concerns for you to deal with.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
4.1.24  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.23    3 years ago
I gave a reasoned answer

Understand that could be subjective.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.26  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @4.1.24    3 years ago

No, bugsy, a reasoned answer is an answer that includes underlying reasoning.   This is by definition.

Now, do you have a thoughtful comment regarding the content of my comment?   Something you wish to challenge?   Or are you going to continue to engage in low-grade trolling?

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
4.1.27  JumpDrive  replied to  goose is back @4.1.16    3 years ago
Tell me was the "Nation" in better shape Oct 2019(just prior to Covid) or now?

                DOW  Unemplymt  Hrly Wage  Inflation  Actions
Oct 2919  26,816           3.6       ~$24       1.8%      Tax cut for rich, JCPOA abrogation, Devastating trade war
Jun 2023  35,282           3.6       ~$29          3%      COVID Handled, Afghan war exited, Infrastructure & Energy investments, Medicare, CHIPS

Trump’s epic mismanagement of COVID resulted in half a million avoidable deaths. Trump incited an insurrection and attempted a coup. We don’t have the daily stupidity of poop tweets or the embarrassment of Trump admiring, praising, and siding with authoritarians. Biden has quietly gotten the job done. We’re way better off now.

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Participates
4.1.28  goose is back  replied to  JumpDrive @4.1.27    3 years ago
Trump’s epic mismanagement of COVID resulted in half a million avoidable deaths.

Please, please, please tell me who had the correct management?  Name the person, the country, anything that had the answer, I'll wait. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
4.1.29  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JumpDrive @4.1.27    3 years ago
COVID Handled,

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

Afghan war exited,

And a shitty exit it was...........you really want to call that a success?

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Participates
4.1.30  goose is back  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.29    3 years ago

Crickets..........

 
 
 
goose is back
Junior Participates
4.1.31  goose is back  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.18    3 years ago
Prior to COVID our economy was in great shape.

Exactly! You hate Trump, I don't care for his personality, but inflation was low, unemployment was low, workforce participation was high, energy cost were way down.  He would have been elected in a landslide if not for Covid. 

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
4.1.32  JumpDrive  replied to  goose is back @4.1.28    3 years ago

First country I thought of was Germany. I saw an interview with a German minister who was asked why they were doing so much better with COVID. He looked a little surprised at first, but then said I don't know, we're just doing what your CDC said to do, we don't have anything of equivalent capability. German per capita death rate is 59% of ours. Approaching half.

 
 
 
JumpDrive
Freshman Silent
4.1.33  JumpDrive  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.29    3 years ago

First: we have that in 2013 Trump said “We should leave Afghanistan immediately. No more wasted lives.” Yet when he became president he sent thousands more soldiers there. He allowed the war to run for another four years during which 50 Americans were killed and another $400+ billion were squandered. Trump 'negotiated' the shittiest possible deal with our enemies, the Taliban. This deal had unenforceable, nonsense ‘requirements’ for the Taliban to discuss power-sharing with the Afghan gov’t. But, before those Taliban-Afghan Gov’t negotiations even started, Trump released 5,000 Taliban fighters (including their future leader) and pulled out 4,500 soldiers leaving only 2,500. With these actions, Trump simply told the Taliban they had won long before Biden became president. To recover from that would have required Biden to send soldiers back into Afghanistan — a move that would have been on par with Trump’s stupidity.

Second: 1.1 million Afghans helped us in our war effort. If we had doubled the time to two weeks, that would have given ISIS-K twice as much time to bomb us, three weeks would have given them 3 times as much time. Those extensions would also have doubled or tripled the number of refugees. With so many attempting to leave, the airport would have looked as it did for two or three times as long. Biden doesn’t care about Afghans, he wanted us out, and that's what happened after 20 years of wasted blood & treasure.

Trump didn't get us out because he knew there would be a high political price. He saw what happened to Obama withdrawing from Iraq, the mess Reagan had with the Iran-Iraq war, and Nixon's exit from Vietnam. Sorry Just Jim, no one foresaw that the Afghan Army was just a jobs program and that the majority of it negotiated their surrender to the Taliban before we left. Biden got it done, chickenshit Trump fucked it up as much as he could on the way out the door.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Expert
4.1.34  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JumpDrive @4.1.33    3 years ago

He planned it for May FFS and Biden Changed the schedule. PERIOD!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.36  TᵢG  replied to  goose is back @4.1.31    3 years ago

Yes, I think he would have been reelected if not for COVID.    As long as the economy was good he had a very good shot.   That is a truism for most every incumbent.

So what is your point?   Do you have one ?

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
4.1.37  cjcold  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.3    3 years ago

The next presidential election is over a year away.

The whole political landscape will likely change by then.

 
 
 
Hallux
Professor Principal
4.2  Hallux  replied to  Greg Jones @4    3 years ago
Republicans want to win this time around.

They didn't the last time around?

 
 

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