Wall St Journal Columnist Laments Israel's Rush Into War

In our view what was needed for Israel was an absorbing, a regirding. Sometimes you must wait, build up your strength, broaden your resources, reach out to friends, let opportunities present themselves -- everything shifts in life; some shifts are promising. But don't get sucked into Gaza and spend months providing the world with painful and horrifying pictures of innocent Palestinian babies being carried from the rubble. ("We told them to leave," isn't enough. Some people can't leave, they're not capable, they're old people in an apartment somewhere.) A few weeks of that and the world goes back to its corners.

And the world is left with what ifs. 

I knew this was going to go wrong on the day after the massacre, when an Israeli general said we are going to go into Gaza and makes sure this never happens again.  Killing 10,000 civilians only makes sure it will happen again. 

John, what did you expect Israel's response to be? 

I didnt have any expectations.

I am surprised that more influential people in Israel didnt recognize that bombing Gaza would not end the problem. 

It seems that a number of Arab nations are not fans of Hamas, and might have been influenced to create an atmosphere where hamas would become isolated and ostracized by the world community.  I totally agree with bringing complete justice to hamas, which in practical terms would amount to killing them, but I dont think it was something that had to be done the day after. 

I am surprised that more influential people in Israel didnt recognize that bombing Gaza would not end the problem. 

They were trying to prevent more death of their soldiers. You are not hearing how many of them have already been killed in combat. Already even with the bombings here is the death toll: 308 IDF soldiers, 10 Shin Bet agents and 58 police officers and at least 5,132 wounded.

It seems that a number of Arab nations are not fans of Hamas, and might have been influenced to create an atmosphere where hamas would become isolated and ostracized by the world community.  I totally agree with bringing complete justice to hamas, which in practical terms would amount to killing them, but I dont think it was something that had to be done the day after. btw, please note that not too many of our news outlets are reporting this.

The bombing would have happened since Hamas was still bombing Israel. And while I agree that there are other Arab nations who do not like Hamas, no one was going to be able to rid them from Gaza. Sad but true.

It seems that a number of Arab nations are not fans of Hamas, and might have been influenced to create an atmosphere where hamas would become isolated and ostracized by the world community. 

Why do you think they haven't yet?  How many Israelis would have to die before they would?

The bombing would have happened since Hamas was still bombing Israel. And while I agree that there are other Arab nations who do not like Hamas, no one was going to be able to rid them from Gaza. Sad but true.

Jordan for example has recognized Israel's right to exist and has made peace with them. IMO, the reason that Jordan has not ostracized them is the fact that Jordan has a population of 3 million Palestinians out of a total population of 11 million. Many state that the figure is closer to 6 million Palestinians. and the majority are citizens of Jordan. King Abdullah has to walk a fine line and clearly stated that he will not accept any more Palestinians. But a full-blown ostracization of the Palestinians could throw the country into a total rebellion. The US also has military assets in the country. 

I dont often agree with Peggy Noonan but I do this time. in my opinion Israel should have stepped back a step on Oct 8th, and said "what is the best way for us to go about this"?  But they didnt , they started bombing Gaza the next day. 

I dont often agree with Peggy Noonan but I do this time. in my opinion Israel should have stepped back a step on Oct 8th, and said "what is the best way for us to go about this"?  But they didnt , they started bombing Gaza the next day. 

It's very easy to sit here and pontificate from our laptops that just conveniently happen to be located 6000+ miles from any fighting.

But let's face it, if the Canadians landed an amphibious assault at the Shedd Aquarium and then beheaded dozens of civilians at a music festival in Grant Park, you'd demand to see US tanks in Toronto by sunrise.

"but I dont think it was something that had to be done the day after." 

It wasn't, they waited nearly a month to enter Gaza. 

"Israel should have stepped back a step on Oct 8th, and said "what is the best way for us to go about this"?  But they didnt , they started bombing Gaza the next day." 

 What is the best way to go about it? How long should they wait to respond?

Should they have just turned the other cheek?

How many Israelis would have to die before they would?

[Deleted]

Yes, Jordon is an exception in the Arab world WRT Palestine.  After the 48 war, Jordon annexed the West Bank, offered Jordanian citizenship and reserved the same number of Parliamentary seats as the East Bank.  Palestinians in the West Bank did not face discrimination and were given the same equal rights as the Jordanians of the East Bank.  There was no push for a separate Palestinian state back then.

I didnt have any expectations.

That’s the problem with criticisms of Israel, right now. Nobody likes to see the violence, but no one has a better solution.

bombing Gaza would not end the problem. 

Won’t it, though? Why not? Historically, military actions have accomplished more for Israel than mere peace overtures. More and more of Israel’s neighbors are learning that it’s safer for them to leave Israel alone because every time someone picks a fight with Israel, they get their asses handed to them. Gaza and Hamas are learning that lesson right now.

I dont think it was something that had to be done the day after. 

What day would be good, then?

10,000 civilian deaths will create a new generation of terrorists. All around the world there are people and groups that become violent because of past grievances. The idea that 10,000 civilian deaths will create peace in Israel is wild wishful thinking. 

Yes, you are probably right.  Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.  Dealing with the grievances of a multi-generational, professional refugee community is a major challenge.

There were a lot of civilian deaths during WW2, but the end result was peace.

You're reasoning is faulty and is fueled more by emotion than logic and common sense.

10,000 civilian deaths will create a new generation of terrorists.

No, it won’t. Where are the terrorists from all the other conflicts in the history of the world? Where are the French, German, Polish terrorists from WWII? They don’t exist because civilized societies make peace and honor that peace. You don’t get to blame terrorism on the victims of the terror who have no recourse but to defend themselves.

Terrorists should be confronted no matter who they hide behind. Terrorists always claim to have a good reason for their violence, but the truth is they just want to be violent and aren’t interested in even trying peace. Don’t delude yourself. Hamas wants to kill every Jew. They have said so. Nothing Israel does will prevent it other than what they are doing now.

It seems that a number of Arab nations are not fans of Hamas, and might have been influenced to create an atmosphere where hamas would become isolated and ostracized by the world community.

Which is irrelevant as long as Iran is backing them. Perhaps more importantly, I don't think there's anything Hamas could do, no matter how terrible, that would change the UN's anti-Israel position and as long as that doesn't change, the UN is going to keep on funding Hamas. 

I knew this was going to go wrong

What makes you think this is going wrong?

Killing 10,000 civilians only makes sure it will happen again. 

Maybe next time, the people of Gaza shouldn’t vote for leaders who like to store weapons, ammo, and missile launchers under schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings. But hey, if you can figure out a way to defeat Hamas without killing a bunch of innocent civilians, I’m sure Bibi would love to hear your plan.

Perhaps enough progressive Americans will volunteer into the IDF to show them how it’s properly done.

The nature of the attack by Hamas on Oct. 7th demanded an immediate response for a variety of reasons.  After that initial response, Israel has taken a measured approach.  Liberals are now shocked simply because Israel hasn't followed the status quo of a political response, playing the victim, and waiting for the world to take action.  Israel apparently has turned its back on the status quo and the world's liberals don't know what to do except blame the victim for fighting back.  Israel has flipped the middle finger at high minded academic liberals.  That's the unforgivable sin of Netanyahu and Israel.  

Israel provided plenty of warning for 'innocent' Palestinians to evacuate.  And that evacuation required travelling no more than 12 miles in 2 weeks; not an overwhelming obstacle.  Southern Gaza is where the humanitarian aid was positioned to enter Gaza.  That's where refugees will exit Gaza if the world allows it.  Telling 'innocent' Palestinians to move to where the aid is located would seem to plan for and address a humanitarian crisis.  Where was Hamas?  If Hamas cared about the safety of 'innocent' Palestinians there was ample time to move people to southern Gaza and prepare for distribution of humanitarian aid.  Israel was quite clear with its warning; Palestinians chose to ignore that warning.

Hamas perpetrated an act of terror on a monstrous scale.  The attack on Israel was not a handful of terrorists high jacking airplanes.  The attack by Hamas was planned and coordinated along a large segment of the border to maximize the terror.  That's why Hamas is a terrorist organization.  Since Hamas is in charge, Gaza is a terrorist state.  And a terrorist state does not have a right to exist.

It’s amazing to me that this situation is so confused for so many presumably intelligent people.

We continue to think in this space that the invasion and bombardment of Gaza was a mistake

Self defense is rarely a mistake.

and not only because of the intractable question of who will govern it when the Israelis are done.

That’s an issue for the people of Gaza. One thing is for sure, though: it won’t be Hamas.

In our view what was needed for Israel was an absorbing, a regirding

Absorb? Like acceptance? Why do they need to absorb anything? Israel has had 75 years to absorb the fact that their neighbors want to kill them. God only knows what is intended by “regirding.”

Sometimes you must wait, build up your strength, broaden your resources, reach out to friends, let opportunities present themselves

This is true madness. Wait for what??? For more of their people to be slaughtered?

Israel’s strength is just fine, thank you very much. They’re out there flexing that strength as we speak. Their resources are also substantial - far superior to those of their enemy.

As for friends, Israel has been reaching out to the world for generations, only to become the most officially condemned nation in the world by the UN. By this time, Israel knows who its friends are. They do not need to go reaching out. Those friends are already helping them.

An opportunity for what? Peace? Israel has tried that multiple times, and every single time, their enemies have rejected it. Their best opportunity is right now - to erase Hamas.

All of this hand-wringing and pearl clutching over Israel is insane. This is like going to Yellowstone and getting mad at the bear for eating the tourist that kept harassing it. The tourist gets what he deserves, and now Hamas is getting what it deserves.

I’m only sorry that I can’t award more than one thumb up.

From the article.

Splits aren’t new, but the one happening now is troubling in unique ways. For one, the anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian university students this time are reflecting a generation of indoctrination in higher ed: They’ve been taught to hold progressive views and do, taught to approach history as a matter of oppressor/oppressed, with the West the oppressor, and do.

American students in the 1970s hadn’t been instructed all their lives in the proper view on Vietnam. For all the intellectual fads and fashions that swept through their era, their commitments rose up pretty much from the students themselves: The anticommunist obsession of the U.S. government was wrong-headed, the domino theory mindless, the bombing of innocent agrarian villagers wicked. Young men didn’t want to be drafted, so they took to the streets.

If you’re in your 20s now, you’ve been taught throughout high school and college to view the world within a certain framework: white privilege, Western imperialism, the whole woke agenda. Every time you try to describe that regime you feel like you’re reciting clichés, which is part of its brilliance as an ideology: It makes you feel as if you’re chasing ghosts when you know you’re not.

While students were being indoctrinated, they weren’t being educated. Critical thinking can only get you in trouble, so stick with the narrative, don’t read too deep. A professor at an esteemed college mentioned this week that when he likened the airport mob in Dagestan to a “pogrom,” not one of his students knew what the word meant.

But what’s newest in these protests is the bloody-mindedness. The letters produced by students and the prevaricating responses of university leaders came immediately following 10/7, when it was already clear that unarmed Israeli civilians had been targeted, children and old people executed or taken hostage in the kibbutzim. One might call them innocent agrarian villagers. The college groups were aligning themselves with the strategically deliberate use of violence on civilians. And the final shock—that “We support the Palestinian people” devolved so quickly into hatred for Jews. This anti-Semitism was new. That’s not America, that’s not how we roll. It is beyond disquieting and feels like an active threat to the American future.

I'm sure that by now we've all seen vids of college students rallying in support of not just Palestinians but Hamas itself. Probably most of us have seen or read about the college professor that made the Jewish students stand in a corner during class or mobs of protestors accosting Jews. Many dismiss these students or other young people who are rallying for terrorists as idiots. I think that is a mistake. I mean the dismissing part, not the idiot.

I hope most of you have some knowledge of Mao Tse Dong's "Red Guard". If you don't, you should really look it up because what our "protestors" exhibit in their thoughts, words and behavior matches that of the Red Guard and that's a very bad thing. We are, in my opinion, seeing the results of a University system that no longer educates students but, rather, indoctrinates them into anti-western thinking. If you are unfamiliar with the Red Guard, here is a link . I hope you will see what I see because, and I'm not kidding, I'm way more scared of these protesters than I am of white supremacists, mostly because I think there is at least an order of magnitude more of them then there are of white supremacists. I don't necessarily think the danger is eminent, but the direction this country is taking, I fear it's just a matter of time. 

The question that no one who wants Israel can or will answer is what happens next? So let’s see, Israel stops, and then what? So many people are coming at this as though there are 2 reasonable parties here. Hamas has a stated goal of wiping out Israel, and has said they will attack Israel again. In what universe does it make sense for Israel to just sit back and wait for another atrocity? 

As I see it the calls for a ceasefire are calls for allowing terrorism to work. Those wanting a ceasefire are giving a big thumbs up to hamas IMO, and legitimizing the use of civilians as human shields.