I was 'offed' by the back and forth on the 'dead' and 'living' shooter statements too. The media. . .in a situation where they were the 'primary' audience in attendance at an event could not get the first 'reporting' straight on that point (put out to the public)? Not a great look!
The media (almost) owes 'us' an apology for getting the 'question' (dead or alive) wrong - despite the 'fog' of the occurrence! Of course, the media opted to not mention their failing on that error in reporting.
Actually, I can concede to the point you make. . . . there is an exception: This happened in the media's 'HOUSE' (for the night) and literally took place in the 'company' of journalists who understand the meaning of CERTAINTY when making assertions. There is no way that I know that a person can be both dead and alive at the same time. It is like telling a female she is pregnant—Maybe. Either she is or she isn't pregnant. The media has a clear obligation to ascertain if the attacker is alive or dead before putting it out across the 'wires.' As once you declare someone is "officially" dead - it invokes a specific formulation in the minds of the hearers. Just my opinion.
Had it been any other grouping of professionals I would fully agree with your point.
What rhetoric? I don’t think there’s too many people out there saying to go fire a weapon at anyone.
What rhetoric you ask? I'm confident you remember all the violent rhetoric that has come out of Trump, all the times he's said that someone was so stupid it would be better if they were dead.
But you want to ignore all the times that Democrats have called out about Nazi's, about how we must fight like hell because democracy is in danger?
But you want to ignore all the times that Democrats have called out about Nazi's, about how we must fight like hell because democracy is in danger?
The 2020 election and the thousands of claims made by Trump that the election was stolen from him when he knew it wasn't, all projected towards making his supporters riled up enough to attack the Capitol on Jan 6, "But he said one time to do it peacefully", juxtaposed against the millions of people expressing their displeasure with Trump and his administration peacefully and without violence...
What world do you live on?
You can come back.
We will welcome you because you are just like everyone else: human. We will respect your rights, even if you don't respect ours. Because that is the way it is supposed to work in America. It really should work that way throughout the world.
Yes, I’m sure you are confident. Nevertheless, it’s not my job to come up with examples of relevant rhetoric. It’s yours.
I did see Karoline Leavitt say there will be shots fired tonight. Is that what you’re referencing?
So calling anybody who supports Trump a Nazi isn't violent rhetoric? Calling the administration members fascists isn't violent rhetoric? Senator Schumer urging Americans to forcefully rise up against the government isn't violent rhetoric?
And no, shots being fired is not violent rhetoric. It's actual violence.
If you cannot acknowledge that both sides spout out the calls for violence then there's nothing more we can talk about.
Most of your comments here are either an open or sometimes a veiled defense for the worst president in American history. Anyone who thinks that Trump will go down as anything other than the worst president in US history is dreaming.
The response of Trump "supporters" is what about -----. As long as some people insist both sides are equally bad things will never get better.
Most of your comments here are either an open or sometimes a veiled defense for the worst president in American history.
And most of your comments are a direct attack against that same president. As well as calling anybody who does not jump to the 'tar and feather' attacks of the administration as 'MAGA'. As for Trump as the worst president in American history, that's your opinion. While he's definitely not in my top 10, I believe there are a few prior presidents who might also jump into the ranks as the worst so far. But also as the history of America is not yet complete and we do not know what the future will bring, it may be incorrect to call him the worst.
The response of Trump "supporters" is what about -----. As long as some people insist both sides are equally bad things will never get better.
Please go back up and read my posts in this thread. I never said that both sides are equally bad, what I said is that both sides to spout the violence rhetoric and both sides need to work to calm it down.
“I am no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist, and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes,” Allen wrote, apparently referring to the president.
So now it is okay to paint rhetoric as the cause? Maybe we should blame the Media for sharing information about what people state, write, and publish!
Thus, it is apropo that he crashed their dinner where all his rhetorical 'problems' were assembled bodily. /SARC.
What has become of the 'we are individualsand not groupies'? Or words to that effect, that MAGA forces regurgitation of on a daily basis. . .until they do not?
I ask because there is a great amount of sick/twisted talk going on everywhere. Right now, we are country SICK with its rhetoric across the board. . . . More to the point, you know this and yet here you are as my 'Grand' (bless her spirit) would say: "Stirring around in old sh-t (looking for a new scent)."
What has become of the 'we are individualsand not groupies'? Or words to that effect, that MAGA forces regurgitation of on a daily basis. . .until they do not?
It did not. Perhaps you should try making an argument that logically connects evidence to a thesis rather than just throwing up links and expecting me to make the connection for you.
"Just last Monday, President Biden himself said it’s “time to put Trump in a bullseye” in a now-wince-inducing quote from a private call with hundreds of democratic donors, Politico reported at the time.
The unfortunate wording brought to mind remarks NY Democratic Rep. Dan Goldman made last November in an MSNBC interview with former White House press secretary Jen Psaki, saying Trump should be “eliminated” over his alleged role in the Jan. 6, 2021 Capitol riot.
“It is just unquestionable at this point that man cannot see public office again. He is not only unfit, he is destructive to our democracy, and he has to be eliminated,” the District 10 representative said.
Goldman later walked back his remarks in a post on X , saying he doesn’t condone “political violence.”
The official Biden-Harris HQ account also made a post on X in December with the heading “Trump Parrots Hitler” featuring a series of images of Trump and Hitler’s faces juxtaposed with quotes from each, which the campaign alleged were similar.
Casually comparing the former president to history’s greatest monster was apparently also a favorite pastime inside the Biden White House.
Young staffers including aides to President Biden have reportedly taken to calling Trump “ Hitler Pig ” behind closed doors."
You guess wrong, I am not asking about anybody's rhetoric outside of Newstalkers. . . MAGA conservatives here (now) speak of the problems and circumstances in this country as better suited to the individual. . . and not collectives. . . so with this foolish "lone man" attack/er I should not be reading anything about democrats or anybody else as cause of this 'event'! Be consistent!
"if you can't just see it, I can't explain it to you."
Actually it is "if you really can't see it then it is because you refuse to see what is right in front of you and my explaining it to you will just fall on deaf ears".
About what? I didn’t say the claim was wrong. I just asked for an example of how it was true. The only response has been “trust me bro.”
and are trying to play the victim
Victim of what? Is “play the victim” one of those refrigerator magnet phrases? I haven’t said a word about being victimized. You and your MAGA companions are incapable of victimizing me.
Ya know what? Nevermind it. We already know from what you have said that you just expect me to accept your claim that I am playing the victim and you don’t have to explain it. AKA trolling.
No. Trump partisans are Trump partisans and they OUGHT to know whom they are! Play with words until the proverbial cows come home. . .and it won't change that!
I can’t explain why other people do or don’t do a thing.
I think it’s very easy to say that when violence happens it’s because of rhetoric, but without specific examples, we don’t have anything to discuss, do we?
This is nothing more than some conservatives doing what they do. . . think: 'Benghazi' and 'Afghanistan suicide bombing' and how they droned on and on about those tragedies for their own political purposes and diminished democratic voting power - some conservatives see the election ahead this fall and are looking for something-anything to 'blow up and out of all proportion' in order to siphon the air back they are leaking with their voters!
So they are hoping (like crazy) to broad-brush liberals as anarchists and assassins that wish death upon 'anybody' conservative.
It is a lie, they know it to be a lie, and yet truth can 'struggle' to get its boots on while lies have booked flights across the country ahead.
So counternarrative these some conservatives! Beat them at their own game. Think Aretha Franklin: "Who's Zooming Who?!
Call it out! Do not waste time 'hollowing out' ourselves trying to reason with PROFESSIONALS likely being paid for their efforts. . . .while we are mostly just individuals and private citizens here. These people are not Sincere. They simply are not!
Well, they missed you. Lack of planning, I would suspect. /s
I don't recall anyone calling for Trump's death. Most progressives know that MAGA and associates will try to turn any violence into favor. Hence, they know that it is not worth it to even think of such an outcome. Besides, Trump is destroying himself, why would one need to do anything but sit back and watch the conflagration.
I am starting the rumor here that it was a false flag operation carried out by one of his stupid followers.
A bunch of doublespeak articles where the reader is asked to believe assertions with absolutely no proof, all presented as the gospel according to Sean?
Big fucking whoopie.
You might just try to tell the truth once in a while instead of posting distortions so severe that they fail to pass even the most rudimentary analysis.
Blah. Blah. Blah. More of the same from the untruthful Sean. To wit:
Just like Pennsylvania, right ? Violence and conspiracies are about all the progressives have to offer
I said I was starting the rumor, that should be your clue that I was being facetious. You introduced PA and then added that violence and conspiracies were all that progressives have to offer... Yawn. This shit gets old after five minutes or so because it is so easy to shoot down and so very repetitive.
Why don't you take up crochet? Patterns are good there.
I am sure there are lots of people who wish that he would go eat worms. That one statement does not negate my post that most thinking people know that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent and therefore eschew it in all forms. But by all means, carry on. You can win the adoration of the incompetent MAGA supporters. Yay.
I don't recall anyone calling for Trump's death. Most progressives know that MAGA and associates will try to turn any violence into favor.
If you despise Trump, you want him to stay alive to pay for his crimes and the last thing you'd want is for him to become the violent rightwing racist mob's martyr. This does have the stink of Trump trying to Jussie Smollett voters into feeling sorry for him just before the mid-term elections when his poll numbers are hitting rock bottom, gas prices continue to rise, and his war is going out of control.
More of the same from the untruthful Sean. To wit:
Lol. You don't even pay attention to your fellow progressives on this site. Suggesting the Butler shooting was staged by Trump pops up all the time, let alone in the wider progressive internet. You should pay attention.
I am starting the rumor here that it was a false flag operation carried out by one of his stupid followers
You are too late. There have already been a bunch of leftists on X and most assuredly, on Blusky saying exactly that.
Why? Because it is the first response of the left wing to call the attempt staged because they absolutely refuse to admit that their party is by far the more violent of any political party this generation.
The response of Trump "supporters" is what about -----. As long as some people insist both sides are equally bad things will never get better.
I was talking more those who push violent rhetoric rather than actual murder. It's easy to believe that there are those out in public who are weak-minded and have mental issues and will fixate on the words of those whom they can believe are knowing and respectable and will then form their mindset around what they believe that person in power wants. And then they will work to carry it out.
A politician who repeatedly calls for Americans to rise up and violently confront the government in order to protect democracy are seen daily. While most of the politicians and those in power (includes anybody who is in the public eye) may not directly call out for murder, they are careful to use words around it. Kind of like the mainstream media is careful when they post a piece where they imply wrong-doing and include words like 'may' or 'could'. But to those who already have mental issues are more easily susceptible to believing it's a call to action and actually attempt their actions. We don't know a lot about the idiot who attempted last nights attack on the Correspondents Dinner but I think it's safe to believe he was not in his right mind.
Well at least they're platforming the poor fellow, at least they're not defenestrating him!
(In recent years Trump has been showing a certainly proclivity to use the term "obliterate". (For example in previous attacks on Iran's nukes we obliterated their nukes. And apparently many people are saying we must obliterate it again.
"Re-obliterate" it?
(Its starting to look a lot like we must repeatedly obliterate it-- again and again and again!)
White House Correspondents’ Association President Weijia Jiang announced Saturday that the White House Correspondents’ Dinner would be canceled and rescheduled following a shooting at the event that prompted President Donald Trump to be evacuated.
"Law enforcement has requested that we leave the premises consistent with protocol. [President Donald Trump] wanted to emphasize that nobody was hurt. He and the first lady, the Cabinet, everybody's safe," Jiang said.
Trump says he was ready to make the 'most inappropriate speech ever made
Trump says he was all prepared to give his speech at the dinner before shots rung out.
"I was all set to really rip it, and I said to my people, 'this would be the most inappropriate speech ever made' if I said so."
But, he says, "I don't know if I could ever be as rough as I was going to be tonight".
For his speech at the rescheduled event, he says, "I'm going to be probably very nice. I'll be very boring the next time, but we're going to have a great event".
Trump says he was ready to make the 'most inappropriate speech ever made
Sounds like it may yet be another case of deja-vu all over again. (Trump yet once again attempting to play the "Nobody's ever seen anything like it before" card!
best economy, best military, I tore up all those loser treaties....hottest economy in the world, we were failing. I rebuilt the military in one year, the stock market hit 50,000 in one year.
Being POTUS is dangerous 5.87% chance of being shot at. It's soooo dangerous, but i don't mind.
How about the shooters own words? How about his own family?
They already volunteered.
"Correspondents’ dinner gunman sent writings to family
In his writings, Allen is said to have referred to himself as a “Friendly Federal Assassin,” railing against Trump administration policies. Outlined grievances covered a range of recent actions by the administration, including U.S. strikes on drug smuggling boats in the eastern Pacific.
Investigators are treating the writings, along with a trail of social media posts and interviews with family members, as some of the clearest evidence yet of the suspect’s mindset and possible motives.
Authorities uncovered what one law enforcement official described as numerous anti-Trump social media posts.
Allen’s brother contacted police in New London, Connecticut, after receiving the writings.
Federal agents interviewed Allen’s sister in Maryland, who told investigators her brother had legally purchased several weapons from a California gun store and stored them at their parents’ home in Torrance without their knowledge, according to The Associated Press . She described her brother as prone to making radical statements, a law enforcement official told the outlet.
The official also noted that Allen had legally bought a .38-caliber semiautomatic pistol in October 2023 and a 12-gauge shotgun two years later."
Prepare yourselves. Expect this incident to be exploited for votes by the usual suspects. . . . It will not be wasted. . . it is too politically hot and valuable.
Democrats: Y'all better be Woke on this one!
(And no, as of this writing I have not heard what the motive is for this foolish man's actions.)
Prepare yourselves. Expect this incident to be exploited for votes by the usual suspects. . . . It will not be wasted. . . it is too politically hot and valuable.
Sure, just as the left will use this to promote gun control laws. Does this surprise anyone anymore?
One of the interesting thing about the footage last night at the Hilton is all the guns 'awash' inside that building looking for a single individual. Yes, I get it. . . overwhelming gunpower. It's oddly counterproductive. . . in that, just like the agents were shooting down 'the way' at the suspect runner. . . somebody managed to hit another official down the way. . . and not the shooter. The shot agent can thank his protective vest. Having so many guns-one in each hand on scene has potential to create a new set of issues.
That is my reflection on that.
That said, I do not care about the guns 'debate' and find it a gross waste of time. I have no faith
My ONLY point for posting at 9 is that democrats had better watch. . . as however this came to be. . . it will be used or turned into a rally cry for 'waning' MAGA supporters to react to this fall.
Oh yes, and democrats you will be DEMONIZED by the actions of one foolish man. . . brace yourselves and come UP politically swinging.
pect this incident to be exploited for votes by the usual suspects.
Of course, of course. The real problem with repeated attempts to kill the President is he might receive a small bump in the polls from it. Not, you know, the mainstreaming of political violence by the left.
Well you know Sean, it is what it is. One man's foolish 'dash' down a long hall does not a political PARTY 'trending.' And yet, here you are spinning the 'pretzel' to see which side orients best to your liking.
Do what you do here, nevertheless. And, I, we, will continue to speak truth about it as best I, we, can.
And yet, here you are spinning the 'pretzel' to see which side orients best to your liking.
Your response to a progressive who sounds just like every other progressive trying to murder a President over the same talking points we see here on a daily basis is to worry about the political fall out.
The attempted murdering of a President seems only to bother you because of the inconvenience it causes your party.
One man's foolish 'dash' down a long hall does not a political PARTY 'trending.' And yet, here you are spinning the 'pretzel' to see which side orients best to your liking. Do what you do here, nevertheless. And, I, we, will continue to speak truth about it as best I, we, can.
That is what I wrote. Sorry, it won't help your MAGA talking point! Your comment is out of your own mind and 'longing' to demonize Others - whom are not MAGA supporters.
Well, what we do know for sure is the shooter is a "lone man." So render your judgement from that understanding. When you do. . .it won't matter what 'perch' he flew off! (As we know extremists are a 'dime a dozen' in today churning cultural environment.)
Well, so that is the only lens MAGA supporters care about. . . okay. What we have here is an apparent "leftist" - as MAGA supporters like to label us. . .trespassing and invading with intend to threaten bodily harm to a blended 'community' of 2000 plus journalists, guests, and government officials- that even includes the 'strong-man' Trump himself and here is the complex part (y'all will not be able to master). . . .
We will never know how many liberals would have seen fit to take him down pre-emptively to him getting to his manifesto identified targets, because aMIXTURE of liberals and conservative officershighly probablytook him down in the transitional spaces between rooms.
It must be hard to be so predictably partisan. . . as if we would not notice. Psst. We do notice!
So now, tell me how you know that only conservatives tackled and subdued the suspect. Please proceed. . . .
How did this guy even get in the building with a gun?
I think i will trust his own words , when he communicated with his family members and poked fun at the "security " measures he saw being put in place for the event. he simply checked in a day or so before they were put in place .
as to how anyone would miss a gun or guns ? it was reported he had a pistol , very easy to hide in luggage , knives , ditto, as for the shot gun , they are not hard to break down to two smaller pieces and stow in a hard sided suit carrier .
its not like he was going through a TSA checkpoint , he simply was checking into a hotel/ motel, never seen one do a luggage search .
its not like he was going through a TSA checkpoint , he simply was checking into a hotel/ motel
Where we had the President, the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, and that’s just the three highest ranking government officials in one place. There were others, too. I don’t care where they’re holding it.
I have to pass through a metal detector and have my bag inspected just to enter the county courthouse.
No, it’s worse than that. I have to go through a security check just to see a Dodger game or go to Disneyland.
When you put it that way, I guess it should be pointed out that any presidents' enemies are as powerful as the president. Especially when hidden and not on record. I had not bothered to think about it that way. . .until reading your comment. Like others I was thinking in the immediacy. . . that all is well that ends in safety and well. Still, a more secure facility (space) should have been 'created' as it is usually where the president is in attendance. After all, potential violence 'trails' the office of president (since Lincoln) and thus puts those surrounding him in harms way as a consequence of exposure.
i doubt you missed the fact he checked in before the secret service even set up their security measures for entry into the venue . your just ignoring that he did , and he still was not on anyones radar as a threat until he acted , and not being identified as a threat , still had certain protected rights that were observed .
he never had to take the weapons he had out of his bags , until just before he left his room and went down stairs , no amount of observation would have caught that without additional manning such as elevators and stairwells.
But Sec serv was more intent on the physical entry points into the actual venue, those were the only points that would offer an actual opportunity to engage targets .
i did notice how quickly the perp moved in the short clip of about 22 secs racing through the metal detector . then the still i saw next , in the clip he wore a hoodie .i believe , in the still he was shirtless on the floor in cuffs . My thoughts are they were more concerned after he was down that he was wearing an explosive suicide vest than they were about the fire arms, the venue after all is underground , and the choices he made were interesting at least to me . they showed me he was intent on mass casualty , not just targeted individuals , and he didnt care who was caught in between. definitely NOT a stable individual , but crafty and smart enough to stay hidden until he decided to make his move .
the other things i tend to keep in mind ? the Sec Service not only has to work with the venue provided to the best of their ability , but also with WHOM they are actually tasked with protecting , and i understand the current task is something of a pain in the ass about doing as he is told .
Still, a more secure facility (space) should have been 'created' as it is usually where the president is in attendance.
I will just interject this here , many past presidents have expressed a desire for an "Official" WH ball room ,and it would solve many problems from a security standpoint that have been witnessed over the years , one being absolute control over who can and can not enter, federal police and Secret service i am sure they would love such a place that was under their absolute and total control.
There is one currently being constructed /created , but politics as they are , there is push back.
personally i dont think it will be completed until well after trump is out of office , but it WILL benefit future POTUSs with a secure venue .
i doubt you missed the fact he checked in before the secret service even set up their security measures for entry into the venue
Oh I’m sure I have missed lots. I haven’t spent the last 24 hours focused on this story, though. I’ve just been living life, ya know?
I have no idea when he checked in, but I don’t see what that has to do with anything. But if all you have to do to attack the president is check into a hotel in advance, that’s pretty lame, isn’t it? I can buy a ticket to a sporting event or a plane flight in advance, but I still have to pass through a metal detector and bag inspection to actually get into the action. And if I tried to bust through, I don’t think that would go well.
he still was not on anyones radar as a threat until he acted
Which is why you have basic screening to get anywhere near the event. And running the gate shouldn’t be possible. We are trying to protect the president after all.
I can agree with security being of the upmost importance. The new ballroom should not be an 'opportunistic plug' based solely on this one man's criminal intent and action, nevertheless.
Keeping it real. . . I have not heard of any significant violence occurring at the Washington Hilton in 57 years. . . specifically at this '"correspondence dinner" (Alexa credited.) when prior presidents were in attendance. The questions:
Why now?
Why this president and his cabinet?
Do we really think that those other dinners were not properly and sufficiently protected by Secret Service and Security "Attendants"?
Mark, what I am suggesting here is it is not essential to build a ballroom simply to host public events where the president speaks and is entertaining.
The president, s/he will speak in many venues - even on the 'trail' campaigning.
There will not be fortified and portable concrete structures properly following our leaders around this country. Trump is one again. . . using a bad situation as LEVERAGE to attempt to get his way and quell the critics of his choices. .and, people at least ought to realize it.
While a white house ballroom attached to the white house will be useful and have security purposes I am suere . . it is not a panacea. This president should not be 'overselling' it in any way, shape, or fashion.
any significant violence occurring at the Washington Hilton in 57 years.
57 years , that would put it at 1969. I seem to remember an individual by the last name of Hinkley attempted to and succeeded to shoot a number of administration officials to include the then sitting president in the 1980s on the grounds of the Hilton.
Oh I’m sure I have missed lots. I haven’t spent the last 24 hours focused on this story, though. I’ve just been living life, ya know?
Same here , simply am following what is being reported , im sure the MSM can do a fairly decent job of investigating and reporting ./S
like the charges the person faces interesting . where his family members live , such things , like when did he purchase the weapons and where , how did he get from his home in Ca to DC , that one raised an eyebrow . he didnt fly or drive , he took the train .
You raised the line of succession aspect , i was surprised to read this AM that there was no "designated survivor" for this event , the reason given in the CNN article was because not all in that line of cabinet members attended the function . which in turn made me go look at that list to see who was on it and their ranking . which i found is all republican , except for one independent . And i doubt ANYONE would want that lonely independent to become president by any means .
That was outside the venue, yes? Close, but not inside the building. Also, You are correct that would be significant and I do remember the happening across our television sets. That said, I did specifically speak about the correspondence dinner. Reagan was there for a luncheon in the day time. Although, I am not sure the distinction matters.
Anyhoo, the rest of the comment you left 'swinging' so I restate it for possible consideration and comment:
The questions:
Why now?
Why this president and his cabinet?
Do we really think that those other dinners were not properly and sufficiently protected by Secret Service and Security "Attendants"?
Mark, what I am suggesting here is it is not essential to build a ballroom simply to host public events where the president speaks and is entertaining.
The president, s/he will speak in many venues - even on the 'trail' campaigning.
There will not be fortified and portable concrete structures properly following our leaders around this country. Trump is one again. . . using a bad situation as LEVERAGE to attempt to get his way and quell the critics of his choices. .and, people at least ought to realize it.
While a white house ballroom attached to the white house will be useful and have security purposes I am suere . . it is not a panacea. This president should not be 'overselling' it in any way, shape, or fashion.
And let me 'piggyback' this here: John Hinkley was a 'lone shooter' too. He was tried alone. Sentenced. And imprisoned alone. Yet, here the politics of destruction seeks to 'indict' an entire political party over this foolish man's - stupid, ridiculous, action.
Actually, they were all mainstream left wing talking points. Caroline Leavitt pointed that out by name yesterday that said certain things and this dude parroted every word.
Who is responsible for what a stupid, ridiculous, violence-prone man (woman, child, animal) does? The man, woman, child, or animal doing the speaking and the action. MAGA always cries second amendment rights! The individual is mentally ill. . . Until they can point the finger at some lone foolish man on the opposing side.
Anyhoo, the rest of the comment you left 'swinging'
Some things i accept to have no viable answer for, that would be considered acceptable , so why bother?
another thing is i do not attach the same importance as someone else does to issues or questions , so i decide to let them do as they will with no commitment to agree or disagree. though if i say nothing , its likely safer to consider that as disagreement .
Every normal person would say it would have been entirely ethical to wish Hitler dead. JD Vance once called Trump America’s Hitler. There is no doubt a hugely growing community of maga former Trump supporters who now wish Trump were gone, no matter how it happens. The Pennsylvania attempt on Trump’s life was by a registered Republican. Your argument is 100% nonsense.
I’ve heard my own god fearing parents allude to how unfortunate it was that the shooter missed. I think you underestimate how big the wave is of those who don’t care how it happens, because he is an evil man who shouldn’t exist, period.
Every normal person would say it would have been entirely ethical to wish Hitler dea
Ah, yes...typical leftist knee jerk response to compare Trump to Hitler, but when pressed as to what Trump has done that is similar to Hitler....crickets. I'm sure it will be no different now.
"There is no doubt a hugely growing community of maga former Trump supporters who now wish Trump were gone, no matter how it happens."
If there is "no doubt....then you can provide that "no doubt".
"The Pennsylvania attempt on Trump’s life was by a registered Republican"
So? I guess all Republicans that want to assassinate a Republican president donates to Actblue s/
"Your argument is 100% nonsense."
If that was true, you would have a real rebuttal, not......nanny nanny boo boo
I think he may have been talking about the PA shooting, not last nigh
Oh, I understood who he was talking about, but this is about the Pennsylvania attempted murderer
From Chat GTP
Yes. Public records confirm that Thomas Matthew Crooks — the shooter in the Trump Pennsylvania assassination attempt — made a $15 donation through ActBlue in 2021.
A $15 donation was made via ActBlue on January 20, 2021, the day President Biden was inaugurated.
The donation was earmarked to the Progressive Turnout Project, a Democratic-aligned organization.
The address on the donation matches Crooks’ home address in Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, despite some social‑media claims of mistaken identity.
Thousands of humans have died since the Pennsylvania incident because of the disgusting piece of shit Donald Trump, including and entire school full of adolescent girls and educators, but sure, tell us all about my parents are the bad ones.
this is my seed and i can delete trolling. I am going to give you the chance to make a substantive reply to what hal said - hal is clearly alluding to the war and the 170 school girls we were killed by an american missile. respond to that or risk deletion
Oh, haven’t you heard? Trump started a war of choice with Iran that in addition to murdering thousands of civilians is also now costing every American more for just about everything. He has also taken it upon himself to murder many mariners supposedly ferrying drugs to countries not named US.
Trump started a war of choice with Iran that in addition to murdering thousands of civilians is also now costing every American more for just about everything.
Left wing rhetoric, and bullshit at that.
The Iranian war was started almost 50 years ago by taking Americans hostage for over 400 days, and the hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans killed by Iran and their proxies over the years.
"costing every American more for just about everything"
Only gas, but I don't remember your complaint when Biden gas was more than a dollar more in 22 than it is now.
"murder many mariners supposedly ferrying drugs to countries not named US."
You obviously have never served in the military. I did several tours in the Caribbean and Pacific doing drug ops, and those "mariners" were using boats exactly like drug runners use. They are called go fasts. I f you paid attention, you would see gas tanks and bundles that are packaged exactly how the drugs drug runners use to get their shit to the US.
They want Trump to be gone so we can move on from this disaster. Gone? Either removed or he keels over. Assassinated ? NO.
You are only counting the rational people. They are not the ones that will listen to the rhetoric and feeling it is justifying violence. Politicians need to realize whackadoodles exist and calm down.
How convenient that you left out how he was a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN LIKE HIS PARENTS, and chose to instead focus on a $15 donation to a bipartisan cause that you seem to think is only associated with democrats.
The Iranian war was started almost 50 years ago by taking Americans hostage for over 400 days, and the hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans killed by Iran and their proxies over the years.
So according to the 'talking point' being pushed. . . our nation has been in a literal WAR with Iran for longer than our nation was at war with Afghanistan (19 years and 10 months (Alexa credit)). According to MAGA talking points, we are 'bad' at winning if it takes "50" years to defeat a weak foe.
our nation has been in a literal WAR with Iran for longer than our nation was at war with Afghanistan (19 years and 10 months
Yes
"we are 'bad' at winning if it takes "50" years to defeat a weak foe."
Yes, by weak presidents on both sides...and one literally giving them billions in cash on pallets so they can fund their proxies and further their work to get a nuclear weapon.
I can assure you true sane Republicans would never donate a dime to ActBlue.
It’s hilarious how you guys just blurt out the quiet part out loud. Of course Republicans would never donate a penny to a cause that registers unregistered voters.
Politicians need to realize whackadoodles exist and calm down.
Very true but many of those politicians know those whackadoodles will do their dirty work for them and they would not be held accountable.
Let's say the attempt last night was successful, and thank God it wasn't. Which democratic politician would be held accountable to bringing that violent rhetoric to fruition?
They’re called civilians, and of course civilians are getting killed in Iran and Lebanon due to the war started by Trump and Bibi. You really need to change the channel.
Looks like you have flown the white flag over the debate on the attempted assassination of Trump last night and need to move to something else that will not be kind to your argument.
There was someone here earlier that asked the question "what rhetoric", referring to the left wing violent rhetoric. I posted a 2.5 minute montage, a video of Pelosi and the poster that Temu Obama had that showed "maximum force".
Here is the story I got them from. Of course, out "friends on the left will not look at the videos simply because of the source, and that shows a lot.
you questioned the figure of "thousands" dead in iran. why does everyone else have to have facts and figures and you don't? are you "special" ?
the number of deaths in iran from the war is very easy to find. why should anyone here care about or honor your demand for proof? look it up yourself or show where it is wrong.
the 40,000 dead iranians doesnt seem to be a problem that interests trump. he is going to allow the iranian regime to continue,you do understand that dont you?
Yes. And pssst . . . that is not the talking point at 11.1.22 and I won't bother digressing- you already know all of those points by heart. Here let me do this MAGA talking point:
you questioned the figure of "thousands" dead in iran.
Yes I did..
For instance...naval ships are not civilians, military aircraft are not civilians, missile launchers are not civilians, etc, etc. See the point. Yes, a couple of thousands of Iranians are dead, but the vast majority, if not all, of those casualties, are military.[✘]
Multiple fact‑checked sources agree on the core facts:
In 2016, the Obama administration transferred $1.7 billion to Iran.
$400 million was the original Iranian payment made to the U.S. in the 1970s for military equipment that was never delivered after the Iranian Revolution.
$1.3 billion was accumulated interest owed after decades of arbitration.
Because sanctions blocked Iran from the U.S. banking system, the transfer was made in foreign cash, some of it flown in on pallets.
This was not a discretionary payout, gift, or foreign‑aid package. It was a legal settlement to resolve a long‑running case at The Hague.
Claims that Obama “gave Iran $150 billion” are false. That number refers to Iran’s own frozen overseas assets under sanctions — not U.S. taxpayer money — and even the $150B figure is an upper‑bound estimate, not a confirmed amount.
🔍 Why the payment happened
The U.S. had held Iran’s $400 million since 1979.
Iran sued for the money plus decades of interest.
U.S. officials said settling for $1.7B avoided the risk of a much larger judgment against the U.S.
🔄 Why cash was used
Sanctions prevented Iran from accessing the international dollar system.
The U.S. therefore used euros, Swiss francs, and other foreign currencies.
🔗 Timing with prisoner release
The first $400M cash delivery occurred the same day Iran released several American prisoners.
The administration initially said the events were separate but later acknowledged the payment was used as leverage to ensure the prisoners’ safe departure.
Bottom line
Obama did not “give” Iran billions. The U.S. returned Iran’s own money from a failed 1970s arms deal, plus legally owed interest, in a settlement designed to avoid a larger financial loss.
If you want, I can also break down the origins of the $150B talking point or explain how sanctions and frozen assets work.
I would think making public and private enemies spanning the country and across the planet would be a highly probable cause for 'nutjobs' to nut-up over. . . and yet here you are . . . making assertions your. . . digital ink has not properly supported.
This administration going about sticking its chest out and daring others to 'thump it' - can invoke a response somewhere-sometime-somehow. It has long been stated colloquially that some people will kill over a dime. . .and here we have an administration that if financially, emotionally, and spiritually bankrupting. . . the nation. . . and the world community. . . pushback ought to be anticipated. And not all of it by individual 'crazies' - newly minted.
The Obama administration did transfer $1.7 billion to Iran in 2016, and part of it — an initial $400 million — was delivered as pallets of foreign currency. This happened because U.S. and international sanctions prevented Iran from receiving money through normal banking channels.
However, the payment was not new U.S. taxpayer money, nor was it a gift or payoff. It was the settlement of a decades‑old legal dispute dating back to the 1970s, when Iran paid the U.S. for military equipment that was never delivered after the Iranian Revolution. The $400 million was the original Iranian deposit; the remaining $1.3 billion represented accumulated interes
Now, explain why a US president would give an enemy of the US billions in cash knowing that enemy finances entities that have killed hundreds of Americans and outwardly demand the death to the US, no matter the reason for the payment?
MAGA knows this. They have the ability to read, write, and do 'rithmetic - talking points are talking points. . . just like pocket protectors and pants backpockets - those tired old lies are kept 'readily' available for delivery when the truth won't do.
I no longer preach to the MAGA choir because they have their own 'hymnals' that they shop around for and buy up to repackage and resale as needed to rubes looking to 'purchase' cover for their stinkin-thinkin.
[ Allen is not some random nut job from the fringes of society. He’s a very articulate graduate of Caltech, which means he has a high degree of native intelligence. He’s in the education profession. He is on BlueSky. He goes to No Kings protests. He’s your basic rank-and-file Democrat. But it’s that high native intellect that led him astray. ]
[ The Dunning-Kruger Effect is, at its simplest level, people thinking they know more that they do. People who are high achievers in one area often mistakenly believe their native abilities make them experts in all areas. So you get a super-smart guy like Allen, he excels in one narrow area, and extrapolates that excellence into thinking he knows more than he does in other areas. He goes into Blue Sky, he goes to No Kings protests, and he is easily swayed into believing all of the insane, violent lies those sorts of intellectual cesspools foster. ]
[ All of a sudden this computer science expert is a national political policy expert too, except that latter expertise is derived from insane propaganda. The man with the intellectual skill to write code is not smart enough to recognize when he himself has fallen prey to propaganda, so he KNOWS that Donald Trump is Hitler and must be stopped. ]
[ And when you KNOW that someone is Hitler, what’s the right thing to do? ]
[ That’s what is so scary at this very moment—the sheer number of ostensibly educated Democrats who KNOW so many things are “true" that are actually so very, very untrue. In many ways, Cole Allen is just an average Democrat, and like most average Democrats, he fell prey to credentialism and Dunning-Kruger. But Cole took it to the next level; let’s pray more do not. ]
That’s what is so scary at this very moment—the sheer number of ostensibly educated Democrats who KNOW so many things are “true" that are actually so very, very untrue.
You know what I know? I know Trump is not fit to hold public office. The reasons are well into the dozens. We have gone over many of them on this forum. When "conservatives" insist on sane-washing Trump , not only here and there but constantly, there are people who think they have no choice but to prefer Trump is gone. Obviously the number of people who want to kill him is microscopic otherwise he would be dead already.
That’s what is so scary at this very moment—the sheer number of ostensibly educated Democrats who KNOW so many things are “true" that are actually so very, very untrue.
Coming from rightwing conservatives that is fucking hilarious. Crazy, but fucking hilarious.
That’s what is so scary at this very moment—the sheer number of ostensibly educated Democrats who KNOW so many things are “true" that are actually so very, very untrue.
Is it a real question. . . because as we all know politicians are Type-A personality. And Biden did not easily or soon fold to the ambitions of Kamala Harris in the 2024 election 'season.'
Is it a real question. . . because as we all know politicians are Type-A personality. And Biden did not easily or soon fold to the ambitions of Kamala Harris in the 2024 election 'season.'
Shhh, don't ruin their entire beliefs system about "Sleepy Joe"...
I love that one headline about Trump falling asleep and waking up furious at staff. It’s like when your wife wakes up pissed at you because she dreamed you were having an affair.
And when you KNOW that someone is Hitler, what’s the right thing to do?
Isn’t it obvious? Don’t declare that you KNOW Trump is Hitler, just very publicly state that he COULD BE America’s Hitler. That way you have a shot at being Donald Trump’s couch humping VP.
Cole Allen, the 31-year-old WHCD shooter, sent a manifesto to family members about 10 minutes before opening fire at Saturday night’s White House Correspondents’ Dinner, calling himself the “Friendly Federal Assassin” and saying he was trying to kill Trump administration officials, The New York Post reports “Turning the other cheek is for when you yourself are oppressed. I’m not the person raped in a detention camp. I’m not the fisherman executed without trial,” Allen wrote in the document, which a relative provided to police, a U.S. official said. “I am no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist, and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes,” he wrote.
There is no evidence Trump is a pedophile. There is evidence he was friends with one at the time pedophilia (child sexual abuse) was occurring. There is evidence he is a "rapist" if you accept the definition given by the judge. It is well established that he is a traitor.
But we cant just kill someone because we believe they are guilty. He should be removed through due process in Congress.
It is a NATIONAL SICKNESS that we (any and all of us) have to be dragged into keeping us safe from. . . 'us.' Congress in spirit is intended to represent (and encourage) the ordinary citizens of this country for the good is failing to properly steward our politics due to wasting time on the 'fine arts' of political, professional, and even personal destruction.
Trump tried to overthrow his own government. John Eastman recommended that Pence bypass established standards for accepting or rejecting electoral votes and Trump approved of the plan. He approved of it so much he made calls to Congress while the riot was going on to try and convince members to go along with the plan.
This does not even mention Trumps other efforts to subvert our electoral system.
So, Cole Allen should be released without charges? He WANTED to do something, but didn't ACTUALLY do something.
How stupid can one post get...
The subject was the accusation in 14.1.3 was that Trump allegedly was a "traitor" because of events of Jan 6, nothing to do with yet another leftist trying to assassinate him.
Of course some will argue you can be a traitor and not be charged with treason. Since being a traitor in that sense is based on opinion and feelings it is basically worthless in the real world.
The subject was the accusation in 14.1.3 was that Trump allegedly was a "traitor" because of events of Jan 6, nothing to do with yet another leftist trying to assassinate him.
If that were truly the subject, you wouldn't have opened with the fact that he was unsuccessful in your defense of him. His lack of success would have been irrelevant to whether or not he was a traitor in the legal sense.
No one here has ever stated that "traitor" is a legal term.
By your definition Joe is a traitor to all that voted for him (including me) because he portrayed himself as a moderate unifier and was anything but when he got into office and took a hard left.
There is no comparing the traitorous acts of Trump to any PotUS. No PotUS has ever come close to trying to steal a US presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.
Defending Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
Now we can all experience (and the youth of tomorrow too) why presidents are better seen and heard from. . .Less! We have appreciated presidents that did not feel the 'urgent' need to talk to us on a daily basis. . .and with Trump we can see why! (Think, 'empty can' driven down a paved road in a waffling wind!)
There is no comparing the traitorous acts of Trump to any PotUS. No PotUS has ever come close to trying to steal a US presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.
Read my comment again, it was about Biden. Care to respond to my comment instead of making it a competition between presidents? Or are you suggesting no one else can be considered a traitor because in your opinion he is the worst traitor?
Defending Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
Saying the same thing again and again and again does not make it anything but an opinion.
You are claiming that a PotUS who tried to steal an election with fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement should not be labeled a traitor.
You forgot the pardoning of all the violent criminals who attacked the Police with fists, poles and chemicals on his behalf. That certainly gave aid and comfort to Putin who any reasonable rational American patriot would consider an enemy. Basically, the rights argument is that it wasn't an insurrection because it wasn't successful and he's not a traitor because he and Putin and Kim Jong Un who were both obviously very comforted by Trump behaving just like they would, aren't really rightwing conservatives' enemies.
No one here has ever stated that "traitor" is a legal term.
But then there's this:
A traitor is legally defined as a person who commits treason by owing allegiance to a state and violating it through acts such as waging war against it or providing aid, comfort, or intelligence to its enemies. It is defined in the U.S. Constitution (Article III, Section 3) to strictly limit conviction to overt acts proven by two witnesses or open confession.
Legal Definition and Context
Definition: A person who betrays their country by attempting to overthrow its government or aiding its enemies.
Constitutional Standard: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort" .
Requirements for Conviction: An "overt act" must be proven by two witnesses, or the person must confess in open court.
Punishment: Under 18 U.S.C. § 2381, a traitor can face death, or imprisonment for at least 5 years and a fine of at least $10,000
Here is a comprehensive list of the key actions Donald Trump and his allies took in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election results:
1. Pressure on State Officials and Legislatures
Trump personally pressured state officials, most notably Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's victory in Georgia. In a recorded phone call, Trump asked Raffensperger to "find 11,780 votes" and made false claims of fraud, even threatening legal consequences if the results were not changedcbsnews.com+1. Trump and his allies also pressured legislators in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and other swing states to appoint fake electors or reject legitimate electors for Bidennytimes.com+2.
2. Fake Electors Scheme
The Trump campaign organized and submitted false Electoral College certificates in seven swing states, claiming Trump had won those states despite official results showing Biden's victory. These fake electors were intended to create confusion and provide a pretext for Congress or Vice President Mike Pence to reject the legitimate electoral votescbsnews.com+1.
3. Pressure on the Justice Department
Trump repeatedly pressured the Department of Justice (DOJ) to investigate baseless claims of voter fraud and to take actions to overturn the election. He considered replacing the acting Attorney General with a loyalist who would support his effortsnytimes.com+1.
Trump called DOJ officials almost daily, urging them to declare the election corrupt and to intervene in state vote certificationsen.wikipedia.org.
4. Pressure on Vice President Mike Pence
Trump pressured Pence to reject or delay certification of the Electoral College results during the January 6, 2021, joint session of Congress. Pence resisted, stating he had no constitutional authority to do sonytimes.com+2. Trump publicly and privately berated Pence for not complying, even as the January 6 riot unfolded at the Capitolreuters.com+1.
5. Legal Challenges and Lawsuits
Trump and his allies filed dozens of lawsuits in key states, alleging voter fraud and seeking to invalidate or block certification of election results. Nearly all were dismissed for lack of evidenceen.wikipedia.org+1. Trump's legal team, including Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and John Eastman, promoted conspiracy theories and pushed legal strategies to overturn the results, such as Eastman's memo outlining how Pence could reject electorsen.wikipedia.org+1.
6. Public Disinformation Campaign
Trump and his allies spread false claims of widespread voter fraud, both before and after the election, despite no evidence. This campaign was used to justify their efforts to overturn the results and to mobilize supportersnytimes.com+2.
7. Incitement of the January 6 Capitol Riot
Trump encouraged his supporters to come to Washington, D.C., on January 6, 2021, and to "fight like hell" to stop the certification of the election. His rhetoric contributed to the violent storming of the U.S. Capitol, which disrupted the certification process and resulted in multiple deathsreuters.com+2.
8. Pardons and Political Maneuvering
After returning to office, Trump pardoned many allies involved in the effort to overturn the election, including Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, and others. These pardons were seen as an attempt to protect those who supported his efforts and to signal continued allegiance to the false narrative of a stolen electionapnews.com+1.
9. Continued False Claims and Political Exploitation
Trump has continued to claim the election was stolen, using these falsehoods to rally his base, fundraise, and justify changes to election laws in states across the countrycbsnews.com+2.
Legal Consequences
Trump was indicted in federal and state courts for his role in these efforts, facing charges including conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstruction of an official proceeding, and racketeering. However, some cases were dismissed or delayed due to legal and political factorsAFP+3.
I posted this information almost 24 hours ago, and no NT conservative has replied to contest any of it. When right wingers defend Trump concerning the election in 2020, they always mention three things 1. He peacefully left office 2. He had a line in his ellipse speech where he asked the mob to protest "peacefully" at the Capitol and 3. The congressional vote on the electors took place on the same day it was scheduled, Jan 6.
As we see from the material I posted from AI the events at the Capitol building were just a small part of Trumps attempt to steal the election. He tried to bully state officials in the swing states, he tried to bully his Department of Justice officials, he tried to bully his Vice President, into abandoning all ethical behavior , and he actively promoted numerous crazy conspiracy theories.
There is something wrong with people who refuse to see this and understand it all makes Trump eternally unfit to hold office.
It's not your fault. Keep pressing MAGA 'faces' up against the mirror (asking them to change their ways). Good job, JR! I applaud you. You are a solid 'rock' on NT and your input is wide and widely received (by all). And now that I have again embarrassed you (sorry!), because you do not ask for such attention let me say this message can apply to TiG as well!
MAGA supporters are not stupid people. They get up in the morning and read their talking points and then go out to 'capture' hearts and minds for their aggressive worldview. . . . They are smart enough to know when to fall silent so as to stick with the line they are running that day. It is a group effort.
Ironically, it is MAGA supported delusion. And it is intentional. That is, they see the same shameful, complex, difficult, and nasty undertakings by this administration that we experience. . .the difference is Trump is their self-interested president and they see themselves 'living' through him and his prescriptions. They do not wish to change and he does not make any demands (they will honor anyway) on them. Instead, every day Trump politically trots out the standard party line which demonizes liberals with no 'end' in sight.
Trump does a lot of nice things for MAGA—so they keep him with all his blemishes and pock marks scarring his mind and spirit.
You havent proved anyone wrong, no one here was claiming Trump committed treason. How can we be wrong about a claim none of us was making? You have the mistaken idea that unless there is treason there is no traitor. That is simply not true.
Again….i proved you wrong several times above and you just deleted the posts as trolling. i will not waste any more of my time conversing with you knowing tjat when you are proven wrong once again, you will hust delete the posts.
Donald Trump has repeatedly promoted several conspiracy theories about the 2020 presidential election, which he lost to Joe Biden. Here are some of the most prominent ones:
1. The "Big Lie" – Widespread Election Fraud
Trump has consistently claimed that the 2020 election was "stolen" from him due to massive, coordinated voter fraud. He has referred to this as "THE BIG LIE," asserting that a conspiracy involving election officials, voting machines, and even foreign actors robbed him of a second term. These claims have been thoroughly debunked by election officials, courts, and Trump’s own Attorney General, William Barr, who stated that there was no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the election outcomepbs.org+2.
2. "2,000 Mules" Conspiracy Theory
Trump frequently referenced the debunked "2,000 Mules" theory, which falsely alleged that a network of Democratic operatives illegally collected and deposited ballots in key swing states. This theory was promoted in a film and has been widely discredited, with no credible evidence supporting its claimscitizensforethics.org.
3. Rigged Voting Machines
Trump and his allies, including lawyer Sidney Powell, claimed that voting machines were rigged using software created at the direction of the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez to flip votes from Trump to Biden. This theory was especially extravagant and has been completely debunkeden.wikipedia.org+1.
4. Italian Spy Satellite Theory
Trump also promoted the false claim that Italian military satellites were used to hack into U.S. voting machines and switch votes from Trump to Biden. This theory was among the most fantastical and has been thoroughly discreditedgoodmorningamerica.com.
5. "Stop the Steal" and International Conspiracies
Trump and his supporters pushed the idea that a secret cabal of international communists, Chinese intelligence, and even Republican officials conspired to steal the election. These claims were often tied to broader QAnon-adjacent theories and have been repeatedly debunkeden.wikipedia.org+1.
6. Sudden "Ballot Dumps" and Mail-in Voting Fraud
Trump claimed that "surprise ballot dumps" and mail-in voting were used to fraudulently boost Biden’s vote totals. He specifically pointed to pauses in vote counting in key battleground states as evidence of fraud, though these pauses were normal and explained by election officialstheweek.com+1.
These conspiracy theories have had a lasting impact, with a majority of Republicans now believing the election was stolen from Trump, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
In the 5 1/2 years since the 2020 election Trump has claimed hundreds of times that the election was stolen from him, with no evidence whatsoever. That is another reason he is a traitor.
So we are learning from the leftist assassin that he posted, many times, on his social media tjat Trump is Hitler, pedo, rapist, etc.
These are mainstream left wing views and are not fringe. Funny thing is he posted Trump was a traitor with no proof. I wonder where ai have heard that line many times s/
These are mainstream left wing views and are not fringe.
That is the saddest part. Add to that the poll PBS news/ NPR that said 28% of democrats see violence as sometimes necessary to reach political goals and the only surprise is that this type of thing does not happen more often
Most of the violent rhetoric over the last decade usually is. But Trout's post is obviously just pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of rightwing conservatives and defenders of Trump whining and crying crocodile tears over a picture of rocks and shells.
Is it a game of presidential photo rhetoric? Is Trump "the Cool' president - now?! Why don't MAGA get it-death and killing is a necessary evil. . .not an 'Entitlement' for the big and bad!
If I saw "86 44" an investigation would be warranted. . . and base on the finding. . .for example it is simply a photo and no one is taking responsibility for laying it out on the sand, and Comey has denied it was a message to the president or anybody else. furthermore, he expressed his intent for posting it as "other" . . it would not MERIT an indictment.
So yes, the meaning of the image is ambiguous. . . it is not a crime as indicated by AMAZON ( Jeff Bezos 'hub'):
(Amazon is playing 'cute' by adding a caption: "Clean up on Aisle 47" to the link. We know what's up, nevertheless!)
Amazon is NOT just a photo of sea-shells. . . it is an intend to sell and popularize the 'concept' including by attaching it to another familiar phrase 'captured' by some conservatives. . . "We The People."
Moreover, in the case of seashells stating: "8647" - it has to be proven that it is not a combination (passcode) of some kind in a court of law. And, the 'phantom' placer has yet to be determined and evidenced .
These images and others like it should be allowed in this court proceeding.
These images and others like it should be allowed in this court proceeding.
I don't disagree with this and I don't believe anything will happen to Comey. What will happen is his pockets will hurt because of the massive legal bills he will accumulate to defend himself, just like he and the Biden admin did to many Trump officials. It was nothing more than a revenge tour by the Biden admin because Trump beat their queen Hillary and again their new queen Kamala.
Apparently Trump, a sitting president, thinks he appears cool (think: "MATRIX"- agent enforcers) with 'napalm' waffling in the air around him. It's 'silly' AI.
Point of Clarification: Trump is the President of the United States. . . not specifically mypresident.
I will leave it up to Comey and his lawyers to 'square' attorney fees, or to sue the government over frivolous waste of time and expenditures. (Too bad your comment can not be entered as testimony of intent by Trump and MAGA supporters to exact revenge on a private citizen.)
If I was Comey and his lawyer, I would 'evaluate' the wisdom of having oh say- 6 or 20 people 'populate' his next court appearance wearing "86 47" versions of Amazon's t-shirts and hoodies!
What will happen is his pockets will hurt because of the massive legal bills he will accumulate to defend himself, just like he and the Biden admin did to many Trump officials.
LOL. Comey could hire a chicken as a lawyer and the case would still be thrown out, no need for an expensive defense.
"Now I may be just be a simple country Chicken lawyer your Honor, but I know when a client is being hen pecked!"
Which seemed appropriate for the even stupider comment I was replying to. And frankly, my comment was silly. There's a difference between using something silly to expose the stupid vs just stating things that are demonstrably false and pretending they're real.
What's all this noise about violent "leftist" rhetoric?
According to Gemini:
Based on reports and data from 2025–2026, there is evidence of rising violent rhetoric and activity associated with far-left ideologies, particularly stemming from anti-fascist, anarchist, and partisan extremist movements in the U.S. . This violence often targets law enforcement, political opponents, or infrastructure deemed representative of capitalism. [ 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 ]
Key Findings on Leftist Violence and Rhetoric (2025–2026)
Rising Activity: Research indicates left-wing incidents have been on a upward trend since 2016, with 2025 on pace to be one of the most violent years in three decades for this sector, largely driven by opposition to the Trump administration and partisan extremism. [ 1 , 2 ]
Targets of Violence: Attacks often include arson, property destruction, and violence against law enforcement, such as incidents at a Public Safety Training Center in Atlanta and a shooting at a Texas ICE facility. [ 1 , 2 ]
Rhetorical Themes: Violent rhetoric on the far-left often includes dehumanizing opponents, such as comparing law enforcement to "slave patrols" or branding political figures as fascists, which critics argue inspires violence. [ 1 , 2 ]
Antifa and Militia Activity: Far-left activists in the antifa movement have used threats to shut down opposing events, while new left-wing militia movements have emerged, often using social media to espouse rhetoric, according to the Program on Extremism at George Washington University . [ 1 , 2 ]
Online "Terror Memeplex": Analysts have noted the growth of a "left-wing terror memeplex" online, which spreads violent anti-police memes and justifies actions against opponents, as detailed by the House Homeland Security Committee . [ 1 , 2 ]
on pace to be one of the most violent years in three decades for this sector
Because traditionally, over the last thirty years, the violence has come almost exclusively from the right.
Data from multiple nonpartisan and academic sources indicates that for the vast majority of the last 30 years, right-wing extremism has been responsible for more domestic terrorist attacks, plots, and fatalities than any other political ideology in the United States .
It's great that those on the right are finally speaking out against political violence, but the silence over the last thirty years in regard to rightwing conservative political violence and rhetoric is deafening. But you guys keep pretending to care, those crocodile tears are quite funny to watch.
White guy with a tattoo kills his meth dealer in a robbery? "far right extremism"
Cherry picking an incident (which I couldn't locate in the data so I'm assuming was pulled from some rightwing Trumplodytes ass) which even if true, does nothing to refute the rest of the overwhelming amount of evidence of rightwing violence, is exactly what rational objective Americans now expect from Trump defenders so thanks for not disappointing us.
Now perhaps you'd like to address the hundreds of other deaths linked to rightwing extremism. Or perhaps you'll go for another deflection? Or maybe a what-about-ism this time, those are always fun.
It is rather funny, and says everything we need to know about a person, when rightwing conservatives either go silent, try to distance themselves, claim mental illness was the factor instead of the rightwing extremism or attempt to deflect claiming some outlier in the data is faulty, any time the long history of rightwing conservative extremist violence in America is brought up. You could hear a pin drop when the former FBI director said that " white supremacy and far-right extremism represent the "most significant" or "most lethal" domestic terrorism threats facing the United States". And of course, immediately after that was the rush from the right to dodge, deflect, "nuh uh", talk in circles and claim it's all lies that the fantasy deep state must be making up about the right.
If true it looks like the left may be trying to catch up.
Most on the left are rational enough not to try and compete in that area (which is why they're so far behind), but you're right, it is on the rise, and any increase is not a good thing. I have always condemned the use of violence or vandalism as political tools regardless of which side is using them, and this dipshit at the dinner should clearly pay for crimes he committed and planned to commit with intent and forethought. I fully support our government going after these violent extremists on either side of the aisle. But why the fuck should any American support going after a former government employee for posting a picture of rocks and shells in the shape of four numbers? What a complete waste of time and American taxpayers' money. On that note, do you support the prosecution of anyone found on the video from January 6th who was chanting "Hang Mike Pence!"? I mean, that's a little more specific than Comey so it would be pretty hypocritical not to at least condemn them, right? Or the rightwing attackers who beat police with flag poles that day? Do you support their arrest and prosecutions or are you one supporting their pardons? Who really is on the side of law there, the left or the right? Do we believe our eyes and what we all saw that day? Or do we just ignore it and pretend it was just a peaceful tour of the capital as some on the right suggested? Am I really supposed to gouge out my eyes and tear off my ears and cut out my tongue so I can fit in with rightwing conservative Trump supporters staying silent, acting like they see nothing wrong so that the monster in the house with them won't eat them? "Listen, we traced the call! It's coming from inside the house!!!".
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Trump was evacuated from the dais.
One shooter dead either outside the building or in the lobby.
Nope
FALSE
I thought they took the shooter alive?
When I typed that there were numerous news reports that the shooter was dead.
ok
That's ok John, it happens. It's just like typing straight instead of strait.
what a ridiculous comment
I was 'offed' by the back and forth on the 'dead' and 'living' shooter statements too. The media. . .in a situation where they were the 'primary' audience in attendance at an event could not get the first 'reporting' straight on that point (put out to the public)? Not a great look!
The media (almost) owes 'us' an apology for getting the 'question' (dead or alive) wrong - despite the 'fog' of the occurrence! Of course, the media opted to not mention their failing on that error in reporting.
I don't think the media owes us anything of the sort, we demanded a 24/7 instantanious news cycle and this is the natural result.
Actually, I can concede to the point you make. . . . there is an exception: This happened in the media's 'HOUSE' (for the night) and literally took place in the 'company' of journalists who understand the meaning of CERTAINTY when making assertions. There is no way that I know that a person can be both dead and alive at the same time. It is like telling a female she is pregnant—Maybe. Either she is or she isn't pregnant. The media has a clear obligation to ascertain if the attacker is alive or dead before putting it out across the 'wires.' As once you declare someone is "officially" dead - it invokes a specific formulation in the minds of the hearers. Just my opinion.
Had it been any other grouping of professionals I would fully agree with your point.
Lately we've been hearing a lot about the "Straits of Hormuz". Isn't it about time we pay some attention to the gays of Hormuz as well?
This is getting ridiculous. I know you hate the 'both sides' argument, but both sides need to cool the rhetoric down.
What rhetoric? I don’t think there’s too many people out there saying to go fire a weapon at anyone.
What rhetoric you ask? I'm confident you remember all the violent rhetoric that has come out of Trump, all the times he's said that someone was so stupid it would be better if they were dead.
But you want to ignore all the times that Democrats have called out about Nazi's, about how we must fight like hell because democracy is in danger?
Come on, please stop ignoring reality.
The 2020 election and the thousands of claims made by Trump that the election was stolen from him when he knew it wasn't, all projected towards making his supporters riled up enough to attack the Capitol on Jan 6, "But he said one time to do it peacefully", juxtaposed against the millions of people expressing their displeasure with Trump and his administration peacefully and without violence...
What world do you live on?
You can come back.
We will welcome you because you are just like everyone else: human. We will respect your rights, even if you don't respect ours. Because that is the way it is supposed to work in America. It really should work that way throughout the world.
Yes, I ask. Would it kill you to answer?
Yes, I’m sure you are confident. Nevertheless, it’s not my job to come up with examples of relevant rhetoric. It’s yours.
I did see Karoline Leavitt say there will be shots fired tonight. Is that what you’re referencing?
So you ignore in my post where I already lambast Trump for what he does? Where I comment about the violent rhetoric that comes from Trump?
You show what world you live on.
So calling anybody who supports Trump a Nazi isn't violent rhetoric? Calling the administration members fascists isn't violent rhetoric? Senator Schumer urging Americans to forcefully rise up against the government isn't violent rhetoric?
And no, shots being fired is not violent rhetoric. It's actual violence.
If you cannot acknowledge that both sides spout out the calls for violence then there's nothing more we can talk about.
Most of your comments here are either an open or sometimes a veiled defense for the worst president in American history. Anyone who thinks that Trump will go down as anything other than the worst president in US history is dreaming.
The response of Trump "supporters" is what about -----. As long as some people insist both sides are equally bad things will never get better.
And most of your comments are a direct attack against that same president. As well as calling anybody who does not jump to the 'tar and feather' attacks of the administration as 'MAGA'. As for Trump as the worst president in American history, that's your opinion. While he's definitely not in my top 10, I believe there are a few prior presidents who might also jump into the ranks as the worst so far. But also as the history of America is not yet complete and we do not know what the future will bring, it may be incorrect to call him the worst.
Please go back up and read my posts in this thread. I never said that both sides are equally bad, what I said is that both sides to spout the violence rhetoric and both sides need to work to calm it down.
Or do you deny that both sides perform this?
Hope this helps
According to the new york post:
“I am no longer willing to permit a pedophile, rapist, and traitor to coat my hands with his crimes,” Allen wrote, apparently referring to the president.
Sound familiar?
So now it is okay to paint rhetoric as the cause? Maybe we should blame the Media for sharing information about what people state, write, and publish!
Thus, it is apropo that he crashed their dinner where all his rhetorical 'problems' were assembled bodily. /SARC.
What has become of the 'we are individuals and not groupies'? Or words to that effect, that MAGA forces regurgitation of on a daily basis. . .until they do not?
I am stating what he said. Where do you think he got it from?
Better still: Where do YOU think he got it from?
I ask because there is a great amount of sick/twisted talk going on everywhere. Right now, we are country SICK with its rhetoric across the board. . . . More to the point, you know this and yet here you are as my 'Grand' (bless her spirit) would say: "Stirring around in old sh-t (looking for a new scent)."
What has become of the 'we are individuals and not groupies'? Or words to that effect, that MAGA forces regurgitation of on a daily basis. . .until they do not?
Is it? I don’t see how that equates to “go shoot people.”
So, Karoline was maybe forecasting something she knew was going to happen. Hmmm.
It did not. Perhaps you should try making an argument that logically connects evidence to a thesis rather than just throwing up links and expecting me to make the connection for you.
"Just last Monday, President Biden himself said it’s “time to put Trump in a bullseye” in a now-wince-inducing quote from a private call with hundreds of democratic donors, Politico reported at the time.
The unfortunate wording brought to mind remarks NY Democratic Rep. Dan Goldman made last November in an MSNBC interview with former White House press secretary Jen Psaki, saying Trump should be “eliminated” over his alleged role in the Jan. 6, 2021 Capitol riot.
“It is just unquestionable at this point that man cannot see public office again. He is not only unfit, he is destructive to our democracy, and he has to be eliminated,” the District 10 representative said.
Goldman later walked back his remarks in a post on X , saying he doesn’t condone “political violence.”
The official Biden-Harris HQ account also made a post on X in December with the heading “Trump Parrots Hitler” featuring a series of images of Trump and Hitler’s faces juxtaposed with quotes from each, which the campaign alleged were similar.
Casually comparing the former president to history’s greatest monster was apparently also a favorite pastime inside the Biden White House.
Young staffers including aides to President Biden have reportedly taken to calling Trump “ Hitler Pig ” behind closed doors."
Dems dialed up violent rhetoric against Trump with Hitler comparisons
I guess that went down the drain when Obama called half the country "clingers."
You really don't?
I don't believe that.
"will be fired"?????
Did her crystal ball tell her that?
I like this meme:
You guess wrong, I am not asking about anybody's rhetoric outside of Newstalkers. . . MAGA conservatives here (now) speak of the problems and circumstances in this country as better suited to the individual. . . and not collectives. . . so with this foolish "lone man" attack/er I should not be reading anything about democrats or anybody else as cause of this 'event'! Be consistent!
Once again, the only argument any of you have amounts to "if you can't just see it, I can't explain it to you."
OK. Than the majority of violence and violent rhetoric is coming from the left. Will things get better now?
Actually it is "if you really can't see it then it is because you refuse to see what is right in front of you and my explaining it to you will just fall on deaf ears".
It’s the same nonsense. If this is your tactic, then you don’t have a logical argument you can make or you’re just lazy.
Yea, right. Your tactic sounds like my kids when they were 12.
Sounds like you generally insist that people just accept what you say without question. Around here, we call that bullying or bullshit.
Sounds like you have your head in the sand and are trying to play the victim.
You’re just continuing to spout nonsense.
About what? I didn’t say the claim was wrong. I just asked for an example of how it was true. The only response has been “trust me bro.”
Victim of what? Is “play the victim” one of those refrigerator magnet phrases? I haven’t said a word about being victimized. You and your MAGA companions are incapable of victimizing me.
Ya know what? Nevermind it. We already know from what you have said that you just expect me to accept your claim that I am playing the victim and you don’t have to explain it. AKA trolling.
Just curious and I am not attacking...but why are you not being attacked by leftists here for asking for proof of something?
For some reason, they seem to swarm on me when I ask for proof of something from any of them
Thats funny, I was about to say the same about you.
Because it is clear Trump partisans are here. . . 'sent' here to harass the Truth or block the truth.
Sooooooo the people who attack me for doing exactly what Tacos did are Trump partisans?
OK but they won;t like being called that.
No. Trump partisans are Trump partisans and they OUGHT to know whom they are! Play with words until the proverbial cows come home. . .and it won't change that!
I can’t explain why other people do or don’t do a thing.
I think it’s very easy to say that when violence happens it’s because of rhetoric, but without specific examples, we don’t have anything to discuss, do we?
And yet you didn’t.
This is nothing more than some conservatives doing what they do. . . think: 'Benghazi' and 'Afghanistan suicide bombing' and how they droned on and on about those tragedies for their own political purposes and diminished democratic voting power - some conservatives see the election ahead this fall and are looking for something-anything to 'blow up and out of all proportion' in order to siphon the air back they are leaking with their voters!
So they are hoping (like crazy) to broad-brush liberals as anarchists and assassins that wish death upon 'anybody' conservative.
It is a lie, they know it to be a lie, and yet truth can 'struggle' to get its boots on while lies have booked flights across the country ahead.
So counternarrative these some conservatives! Beat them at their own game. Think Aretha Franklin: "Who's Zooming Who?!
Call it out! Do not waste time 'hollowing out' ourselves trying to reason with PROFESSIONALS likely being paid for their efforts. . . .while we are mostly just individuals and private citizens here. These people are not Sincere. They simply are not!
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[Comment removed for no context.][✘]
Reality?
On a social media site?
(Not a bad idea...now why didn't I think of that?
)
Only one side keeps shooting politicans and justifying it,
“KiII the motherf*ckers. Let the streets soak in their red, capitalist bIood!" - the guy the New York Times platforms
Well, they missed you. Lack of planning, I would suspect. /s
I don't recall anyone calling for Trump's death. Most progressives know that MAGA and associates will try to turn any violence into favor. Hence, they know that it is not worth it to even think of such an outcome. Besides, Trump is destroying himself, why would one need to do anything but sit back and watch the conflagration.
I am starting the rumor here that it was a false flag operation carried out by one of his stupid followers.
Rather convenient to forget the past, makes life so much easier I guess.
rumor here that it was a false flag operation carried out by one of his stupid followers.
Just like Pennsylvania, right ? Violence and conspiracies are about all the progressives have to offer
What do you have to offer?
A bunch of doublespeak articles where the reader is asked to believe assertions with absolutely no proof, all presented as the gospel according to Sean?
Big fucking whoopie.
You might just try to tell the truth once in a while instead of posting distortions so severe that they fail to pass even the most rudimentary analysis.
Blah. Blah. Blah. More of the same from the untruthful Sean. To wit:
I said I was starting the rumor, that should be your clue that I was being facetious. You introduced PA and then added that violence and conspiracies were all that progressives have to offer... Yawn. This shit gets old after five minutes or so because it is so easy to shoot down and so very repetitive.
Why don't you take up crochet? Patterns are good there.
Well there is one person. Boo-hoo.
I am sure there are lots of people who wish that he would go eat worms. That one statement does not negate my post that most thinking people know that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent and therefore eschew it in all forms. But by all means, carry on. You can win the adoration of the incompetent MAGA supporters. Yay.
If you despise Trump, you want him to stay alive to pay for his crimes and the last thing you'd want is for him to become the violent rightwing racist mob's martyr. This does have the stink of Trump trying to Jussie Smollett voters into feeling sorry for him just before the mid-term elections when his poll numbers are hitting rock bottom, gas prices continue to rise, and his war is going out of control.
No, both sides do it. I don't see how anybody can ignore the simple reality of that.
Keep moving your goalposts. Your statement that I directly responded to was
And I gave you one example that directly showed where a State Senator from Missouri directly called for Trump to be assassinated.
So now you cry because I only give you one?
Lol. You don't even pay attention to your fellow progressives on this site. Suggesting the Butler shooting was staged by Trump pops up all the time, let alone in the wider progressive internet. You should pay attention.
Fine. Let's seem some some data from the the right wing justifying murdering left wing politicians?
50 percent of "left of center" Americans think its somewhat justifiable to murder Elon Musk.
56 percent of left of center Americans think its somewhat justifiable to murder the President.
This is not a fringe issue on the left.
What is even more sad is there is a brewery in Wisconsin that is advertising free beer day if Trump is taken out.
I believe the FBI should be very busy with all the threats against the president and conservatives in general.
Maybe we can get the SPLC to tell us who the most violent are s/
You are too late. There have already been a bunch of leftists on X and most assuredly, on Blusky saying exactly that.
Why? Because it is the first response of the left wing to call the attempt staged because they absolutely refuse to admit that their party is by far the more violent of any political party this generation.
Laura Loomer beat everyone to the punch last night, crazies on all sides.
I will start one too. It was an attempt by left wing followers to get more gun control laws by killing as many Republicans as possible.
Well at least they're platforming the poor fellow, at least they're not defenestrating him!
(In recent years Trump has been showing a certainly proclivity to use the term "obliterate". (For example in previous attacks on Iran's nukes we obliterated their nukes. And apparently many people are saying we must obliterate it again.
"Re-obliterate" it?
(Its starting to look a lot like we must repeatedly obliterate it-- again and again and again!)
Hopefully Jackie Alemany was wearing her sensible Doc Martens.
Whoosh one over the cuckoo's nest.
Sounds like it may yet be another case of deja-vu all over again. (Trump yet once again attempting to play the "Nobody's ever seen anything like it before" card!
Still could not avoid the speech
best economy, best military, I tore up all those loser treaties....hottest economy in the world, we were failing. I rebuilt the military in one year, the stock market hit 50,000 in one year.
Being POTUS is dangerous 5.87% chance of being shot at. It's soooo dangerous, but i don't mind.
Iran, Biden did that, I am fixing everything.
yawn...
It will be interesting if we can find out what this person hoped to accomplish. Not sure I trust our government to tell us the truth.
If he is smart , he will just keep his mouth shut and let his lawyers do the talking .
a couple news agencies have ided him and have a picture or two.
How about the shooters own words? How about his own family?
They already volunteered.
"Correspondents’ dinner gunman sent writings to family
In his writings, Allen is said to have referred to himself as a “Friendly Federal Assassin,” railing against Trump administration policies. Outlined grievances covered a range of recent actions by the administration, including U.S. strikes on drug smuggling boats in the eastern Pacific.
Investigators are treating the writings, along with a trail of social media posts and interviews with family members, as some of the clearest evidence yet of the suspect’s mindset and possible motives.
Authorities uncovered what one law enforcement official described as numerous anti-Trump social media posts.
Allen’s brother contacted police in New London, Connecticut, after receiving the writings.
Federal agents interviewed Allen’s sister in Maryland, who told investigators her brother had legally purchased several weapons from a California gun store and stored them at their parents’ home in Torrance without their knowledge, according to The Associated Press . She described her brother as prone to making radical statements, a law enforcement official told the outlet.
The official also noted that Allen had legally bought a .38-caliber semiautomatic pistol in October 2023 and a 12-gauge shotgun two years later."
Cole Tomas Allen: Correspondents’ dinner gunman left writings, family raised concerns
I don’t know what you’re so concerned about. Charlie Kirk told us this kind of violence was unfortunate, but necessary. It’s just Nature’s way.
Prepare yourselves. Expect this incident to be exploited for votes by the usual suspects. . . . It will not be wasted. . . it is too politically hot and valuable.
Democrats: Y'all better be Woke on this one!
(And no, as of this writing I have not heard what the motive is for this foolish man's actions.)
Sure, just as the left will use this to promote gun control laws. Does this surprise anyone anymore?
Canada could use more guns, our politicians roam the streets freely.
Great humor. Remarkable.
One of the interesting thing about the footage last night at the Hilton is all the guns 'awash' inside that building looking for a single individual. Yes, I get it. . . overwhelming gun power. It's oddly counterproductive. . . in that, just like the agents were shooting down 'the way' at the suspect runner. . . somebody managed to hit another official down the way. . . and not the shooter. The shot agent can thank his protective vest. Having so many guns-one in each hand on scene has potential to create a new set of issues.
That is my reflection on that.
That said, I do not care about the guns 'debate' and find it a gross waste of time. I have no faith
My ONLY point for posting at 9 is that democrats had better watch. . . as however this came to be. . . it will be used or turned into a rally cry for 'waning' MAGA supporters to react to this fall.
Oh yes, and democrats you will be DEMONIZED by the actions of one foolish man. . . brace yourselves and come UP politically swinging.
Of course, of course. The real problem with repeated attempts to kill the President is he might receive a small bump in the polls from it. Not, you know, the mainstreaming of political violence by the left.
Well you know Sean, it is what it is. One man's foolish 'dash' down a long hall does not a political PARTY 'trending.' And yet, here you are spinning the 'pretzel' to see which side orients best to your liking.
Do what you do here, nevertheless. And, I, we, will continue to speak truth about it as best I, we, can.
Your response to a progressive who sounds just like every other progressive trying to murder a President over the same talking points we see here on a daily basis is to worry about the political fall out.
The attempted murdering of a President seems only to bother you because of the inconvenience it causes your party.
That is what I wrote. Sorry, it won't help your MAGA talking point! Your comment is out of your own mind and 'longing' to demonize Others - whom are not MAGA supporters.
Oh no. I'm expecting the usual gaslighting, telling us that the shooter was a "Conservative."
Well, what we do know for sure is the shooter is a "lone man." So render your judgement from that understanding. When you do. . .it won't matter what 'perch' he flew off! (As we know extremists are a 'dime a dozen' in today churning cultural environment.)
What we do know is that his writings were all far left talking points. All the violence is coming from one direction!
Maybe we should be asking if the Secret Service agents on scene are Democrats. How did this guy even get in the building with a gun?
And following the January 6 precedent, if he was let in, shouldn't Trump pardon him as a misunderstood tourist?
If you don't count the dead from wars started, random people bombed, citizens shot by government agents, etc.
Well, so that is the only lens MAGA supporters care about. . . okay. What we have here is an apparent "leftist" - as MAGA supporters like to label us. . .trespassing and invading with intend to threaten bodily harm to a blended 'community' of 2000 plus journalists, guests, and government officials- that even includes the 'strong-man' Trump himself and here is the complex part (y'all will not be able to master). . . .
We will never know how many liberals would have seen fit to take him down pre-emptively to him getting to his manifesto identified targets, because a MIXTURE of liberals and conservative officers highly probably took him down in the transitional spaces between rooms.
It must be hard to be so predictably partisan. . . as if we would not notice. Psst. We do notice!
So now, tell me how you know that only conservatives tackled and subdued the suspect. Please proceed. . . .
I think i will trust his own words , when he communicated with his family members and poked fun at the "security " measures he saw being put in place for the event. he simply checked in a day or so before they were put in place .
as to how anyone would miss a gun or guns ? it was reported he had a pistol , very easy to hide in luggage , knives , ditto, as for the shot gun , they are not hard to break down to two smaller pieces and stow in a hard sided suit carrier .
its not like he was going through a TSA checkpoint , he simply was checking into a hotel/ motel, never seen one do a luggage search .
Where we had the President, the Vice President, the Speaker of the House, and that’s just the three highest ranking government officials in one place. There were others, too. I don’t care where they’re holding it.
I have to pass through a metal detector and have my bag inspected just to enter the county courthouse.
No, it’s worse than that. I have to go through a security check just to see a Dodger game or go to Disneyland.
What is Secret Service even doing?
When you put it that way, I guess it should be pointed out that any presidents' enemies are as powerful as the president. Especially when hidden and not on record. I had not bothered to think about it that way. . .until reading your comment.
Like others I was thinking in the immediacy. . . that all is well that ends in safety and well. Still, a more secure facility (space) should have been 'created' as it is usually where the president is in attendance. After all, potential violence 'trails' the office of president (since Lincoln) and thus puts those surrounding him in harms way as a consequence of exposure.
i doubt you missed the fact he checked in before the secret service even set up their security measures for entry into the venue . your just ignoring that he did , and he still was not on anyones radar as a threat until he acted , and not being identified as a threat , still had certain protected rights that were observed .
he never had to take the weapons he had out of his bags , until just before he left his room and went down stairs , no amount of observation would have caught that without additional manning such as elevators and stairwells.
But Sec serv was more intent on the physical entry points into the actual venue, those were the only points that would offer an actual opportunity to engage targets .
i did notice how quickly the perp moved in the short clip of about 22 secs racing through the metal detector . then the still i saw next , in the clip he wore a hoodie .i believe , in the still he was shirtless on the floor in cuffs . My thoughts are they were more concerned after he was down that he was wearing an explosive suicide vest than they were about the fire arms, the venue after all is underground , and the choices he made were interesting at least to me . they showed me he was intent on mass casualty , not just targeted individuals , and he didnt care who was caught in between. definitely NOT a stable individual , but crafty and smart enough to stay hidden until he decided to make his move .
the other things i tend to keep in mind ? the Sec Service not only has to work with the venue provided to the best of their ability , but also with WHOM they are actually tasked with protecting , and i understand the current task is something of a pain in the ass about doing as he is told .
I will just interject this here , many past presidents have expressed a desire for an "Official" WH ball room ,and it would solve many problems from a security standpoint that have been witnessed over the years , one being absolute control over who can and can not enter, federal police and Secret service i am sure they would love such a place that was under their absolute and total control.
There is one currently being constructed /created , but politics as they are , there is push back.
personally i dont think it will be completed until well after trump is out of office , but it WILL benefit future POTUSs with a secure venue .
Oh I’m sure I have missed lots. I haven’t spent the last 24 hours focused on this story, though. I’ve just been living life, ya know?
I have no idea when he checked in, but I don’t see what that has to do with anything. But if all you have to do to attack the president is check into a hotel in advance, that’s pretty lame, isn’t it? I can buy a ticket to a sporting event or a plane flight in advance, but I still have to pass through a metal detector and bag inspection to actually get into the action. And if I tried to bust through, I don’t think that would go well.
Which is why you have basic screening to get anywhere near the event. And running the gate shouldn’t be possible. We are trying to protect the president after all.
I can agree with security being of the upmost importance. The new ballroom should not be an 'opportunistic plug' based solely on this one man's criminal intent and action, nevertheless.
Keeping it real. . . I have not heard of any significant violence occurring at the Washington Hilton in 57 years. . . specifically at this '"correspondence dinner" (Alexa credited.) when prior presidents were in attendance. The questions:
Why now?
Why this president and his cabinet?
Do we really think that those other dinners were not properly and sufficiently
protected by Secret Service and Security "Attendants"?
Mark, what I am suggesting here is it is not essential to build a ballroom simply to host public events where the president speaks and is entertaining.
The president, s/he will speak in many venues - even on the 'trail' campaigning.
There will not be fortified and portable concrete structures properly following our leaders around this country. Trump is one again. . . using a bad situation as LEVERAGE to attempt to get his way and quell the critics of his choices . .and, people at least ought to realize it.
While a white house ballroom attached to the white house will be useful and have security purposes I am suere . . it is not a panacea. This president should not be 'overselling' it in any way, shape, or fashion.
57 years , that would put it at 1969. I seem to remember an individual by the last name of Hinkley attempted to and succeeded to shoot a number of administration officials to include the then sitting president in the 1980s on the grounds of the Hilton.
Same here , simply am following what is being reported , im sure the MSM can do a fairly decent job of investigating and reporting ./S
like the charges the person faces interesting . where his family members live , such things , like when did he purchase the weapons and where , how did he get from his home in Ca to DC , that one raised an eyebrow . he didnt fly or drive , he took the train .
You raised the line of succession aspect , i was surprised to read this AM that there was no "designated survivor" for this event , the reason given in the CNN article was because not all in that line of cabinet members attended the function . which in turn made me go look at that list to see who was on it and their ranking . which i found is all republican , except for one independent . And i doubt ANYONE would want that lonely independent to become president by any means .
That was outside the venue, yes? Close, but not inside the building. Also, You are correct that would be significant and I do remember the happening across our television sets. That said, I did specifically speak about the correspondence dinner. Reagan was there for a luncheon in the day time. Although, I am not sure the distinction matters.
Anyhoo, the rest of the comment you left 'swinging' so I restate it for possible consideration and comment:
And let me 'piggyback' this here: John Hinkley was a 'lone shooter' too. He was tried alone. Sentenced. And imprisoned alone. Yet, here the politics of destruction seeks to 'indict' an entire political party over this foolish man's - stupid, ridiculous, action.
Actually, they were all mainstream left wing talking points. Caroline Leavitt pointed that out by name yesterday that said certain things and this dude parroted every word.
Who is responsible for what a stupid, ridiculous, violence-prone man (woman, child, animal) does? The man, woman, child, or animal doing the speaking and the action. MAGA always cries second amendment rights! The individual is mentally ill. . . Until they can point the finger at some lone foolish man on the opposing side.
Such HYPOCRISY is repulsive!
Be consistent! This tiresome game is nauseous!
Some things i accept to have no viable answer for, that would be considered acceptable , so why bother?
another thing is i do not attach the same importance as someone else does to issues or questions , so i decide to let them do as they will with no commitment to agree or disagree. though if i say nothing , its likely safer to consider that as disagreement .
Mark, you are allowed to not attach importance to the questions, and you are allowed to pass on them. . . I do all the time in my discretion.
Actually, I thought to add the word "Rhetorical" to them anyway (and decided to leave them as is).
The questions do convey a thought and as such. . . speak for themselves!
Dont need permission either .
Superfluous. None of us have power over the other here, generally speaking. We're all versions of equals.
You mean like morally correct talking points?
Gird your loins!
He must be disappointed that there’s no cause for wearing a maxi pad on his undamaged ear this time.
You mean that's not where they go?
[✘] Why can't they just wait until November of next year and vote in someone they think would be a good president.
Trump can't run again, so why even waste your time with the wish for assassination?
I am pretty sure that is Vance or Rubio wins in 28, the same rhetoric from the left will continue and the attempts on lives will also continue.[✘]
Every normal person would say it would have been entirely ethical to wish Hitler dead. JD Vance once called Trump America’s Hitler. There is no doubt a hugely growing community of maga former Trump supporters who now wish Trump were gone, no matter how it happens. The Pennsylvania attempt on Trump’s life was by a registered Republican. Your argument is 100% nonsense.
I think there is a consensus sentiment among people who think Trump is a maleficent force in American public life -
They want Trump to be gone so we can move on from this disaster. Gone? Either removed or he keels over. Assassinated ? NO.
About 30% of Americans will shed a tear when he is gone. The other 70% will not.
I’ve heard my own god fearing parents allude to how unfortunate it was that the shooter missed. I think you underestimate how big the wave is of those who don’t care how it happens, because he is an evil man who shouldn’t exist, period.
Ah, yes...typical leftist knee jerk response to compare Trump to Hitler, but when pressed as to what Trump has done that is similar to Hitler....crickets. I'm sure it will be no different now.
"There is no doubt a hugely growing community of maga former Trump supporters who now wish Trump were gone, no matter how it happens."
If there is "no doubt....then you can provide that "no doubt".
"The Pennsylvania attempt on Trump’s life was by a registered Republican"
So? I guess all Republicans that want to assassinate a Republican president donates to Actblue s/
"Your argument is 100% nonsense."
If that was true, you would have a real rebuttal, not......nanny nanny boo boo
Sickening...but he never got a shot at the president. He got tackled at the first line of security.
"because he is an evil man who shouldn’t exist,"[✘]
“,,,,,,,god fearing parents allude to how unfortunate it was that the shooter missed.”[✘]
I think he may have been talking about the PA shooting, not last night.
Beyond that, yeah. Death wishing, never a good look.
Oh, I understood who he was talking about, but this is about the Pennsylvania attempted murderer
From Chat GTP
Yes. Public records confirm that Thomas Matthew Crooks — the shooter in the Trump Pennsylvania assassination attempt — made a $15 donation through ActBlue in 2021.
A $15 donation was made via ActBlue on January 20, 2021, the day President Biden was inaugurated.
The donation was earmarked to the Progressive Turnout Project, a Democratic-aligned organization.
The address on the donation matches Crooks’ home address in Bethel Park, Pennsylvania, despite some social‑media claims of mistaken identity.
JD Vance is the left?! Who knew!
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Thousands of humans have died since the Pennsylvania incident because of the disgusting piece of shit Donald Trump, including and entire school full of adolescent girls and educators, but sure, tell us all about my parents are the bad ones.
Such as?
And how were each one of them Trump's fault?
this is my seed and i can delete trolling. I am going to give you the chance to make a substantive reply to what hal said - hal is clearly alluding to the war and the 170 school girls we were killed by an american missile. respond to that or risk deletion
Oh, haven’t you heard? Trump started a war of choice with Iran that in addition to murdering thousands of civilians is also now costing every American more for just about everything. He has also taken it upon himself to murder many mariners supposedly ferrying drugs to countries not named US.
Is that what he posted. If that is what he meant, then he could have said it outright, not "alluded" to it.
So let's start with this...
Where is he getting his information that "thousands" have been killed?
Where?
How?
The school incident was supposedly by an Israeli missile, not a US one, so that argument is out.
I believe he is using Iranian rhetoric to form the narrative that he wants to argue here.
Left wing rhetoric, and bullshit at that.
The Iranian war was started almost 50 years ago by taking Americans hostage for over 400 days, and the hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans killed by Iran and their proxies over the years.
"costing every American more for just about everything"
Only gas, but I don't remember your complaint when Biden gas was more than a dollar more in 22 than it is now.
"murder many mariners supposedly ferrying drugs to countries not named US."
You obviously have never served in the military. I did several tours in the Caribbean and Pacific doing drug ops, and those "mariners" were using boats exactly like drug runners use. They are called go fasts. I f you paid attention, you would see gas tanks and bundles that are packaged exactly how the drugs drug runners use to get their shit to the US.
You are only counting the rational people. They are not the ones that will listen to the rhetoric and feeling it is justifying violence. Politicians need to realize whackadoodles exist and calm down.
How convenient that you left out how he was a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN LIKE HIS PARENTS, and chose to instead focus on a $15 donation to a bipartisan cause that you seem to think is only associated with democrats.
[✘]
So what?
"and chose to instead focus on a $15 donation to a bipartisan cause that you seem to think is only associated with democrats."
I can assure you true sane Republicans would never donate a dime to ActBlue.
He was a RINO
So according to the 'talking point' being pushed. . . our nation has been in a literal WAR with Iran for longer than our nation was at war with Afghanistan (19 years and 10 months (Alexa credit)). According to MAGA talking points, we are 'bad' at winning if it takes "50" years to defeat a weak foe.
Yes
"we are 'bad' at winning if it takes "50" years to defeat a weak foe."
Yes, by weak presidents on both sides...and one literally giving them billions in cash on pallets so they can fund their proxies and further their work to get a nuclear weapon.
I can assure you true sane Republicans would never donate a dime to ActBlue.
It’s hilarious how you guys just blurt out the quiet part out loud. Of course Republicans would never donate a penny to a cause that registers unregistered voters.
Very true but many of those politicians know those whackadoodles will do their dirty work for them and they would not be held accountable.
Let's say the attempt last night was successful, and thank God it wasn't. Which democratic politician would be held accountable to bringing that violent rhetoric to fruition?
None. And they know it
Is that why they are under investigation by the DOJ?
The school incident was supposedly by an Israeli missile, not a US one, so that argument is out.
JFC what the fuck are you talking about? It literally said MADE IN THE USA on it. The gaslighting here is so out of control.
Lol, this DOJ would investigate a ham sandwich if a democrat took a bite out of it.
And where was this school located? It was located adjacent to an Iranian military complex, where previously it had been within the complex.
I do see you want to argue a school with supposed 170 dead(Iranian numbers) but can't argue the "thousands " dead you parroted in an earlier post.
Talk about gaslighting.
there are no reports of dead in iran that are less than 2,000 (which is thousands). if you think there are, than cite them
What is your response if it shows that the accusations prove to be true?
They’re called civilians, and of course civilians are getting killed in Iran and Lebanon due to the war started by Trump and Bibi. You really need to change the channel.
I didn't make the claim.
BTW...where is your outrage over the almost 40,000 innocent Iranians killed by Iranian forces for trying to speak freely?
I have never seen you post anything about that, but you are mad about a couple of thousand (probably mostly military) dead.
11.1.32 is for you too
Well, better you state it than me. . . I guess!
Hug MAGA talking points for me ("pallets of cash" -Iran gifting). /s
Looks like you have flown the white flag over the debate on the attempted assassination of Trump last night and need to move to something else that will not be kind to your argument.
From chat GTP
Yes, pallets of cash were sent to Iran in 2016
[✘]
At a minimum they just don't care. At a maximum they are wishful thinking that something will set someone off like it seems we saw last night.
There was someone here earlier that asked the question "what rhetoric", referring to the left wing violent rhetoric. I posted a 2.5 minute montage, a video of Pelosi and the poster that Temu Obama had that showed "maximum force".
Here is the story I got them from. Of course, out "friends on the left will not look at the videos simply because of the source, and that shows a lot.
Jamie Raskin Is Unaware of the Heated Rhetoric From Democrats. Let's Remind Him.
you questioned the figure of "thousands" dead in iran. why does everyone else have to have facts and figures and you don't? are you "special" ?
the number of deaths in iran from the war is very easy to find. why should anyone here care about or honor your demand for proof? look it up yourself or show where it is wrong.
the 40,000 dead iranians doesnt seem to be a problem that interests trump. he is going to allow the iranian regime to continue,you do understand that dont you?
Yes. And pssst . . . that is not the talking point at 11.1.22 and I won't bother digressing- you already know all of those points by heart. Here let me do this MAGA talking point:
Yes I did..
For instance...naval ships are not civilians, military aircraft are not civilians, missile launchers are not civilians, etc, etc. See the point. Yes, a couple of thousands of Iranians are dead, but the vast majority, if not all, of those casualties, are military.[✘]
Um, directly from 11.1.22
and one literally giving them billions in cash on pallets so they can fund their proxies and further their work to get a nuclear weapon.
tell us everything you know about obama "giving" Iran money.
CO-PILOT
Multiple fact‑checked sources agree on the core facts:
In 2016, the Obama administration transferred $1.7 billion to Iran.
$400 million was the original Iranian payment made to the U.S. in the 1970s for military equipment that was never delivered after the Iranian Revolution.
$1.3 billion was accumulated interest owed after decades of arbitration.
Because sanctions blocked Iran from the U.S. banking system, the transfer was made in foreign cash, some of it flown in on pallets.
This was not a discretionary payout, gift, or foreign‑aid package. It was a legal settlement to resolve a long‑running case at The Hague.
Claims that Obama “gave Iran $150 billion” are false. That number refers to Iran’s own frozen overseas assets under sanctions — not U.S. taxpayer money — and even the $150B figure is an upper‑bound estimate, not a confirmed amount.
🔍 Why the payment happened
The U.S. had held Iran’s $400 million since 1979.
Iran sued for the money plus decades of interest.
U.S. officials said settling for $1.7B avoided the risk of a much larger judgment against the U.S.
🔄 Why cash was used
Sanctions prevented Iran from accessing the international dollar system.
The U.S. therefore used euros, Swiss francs, and other foreign currencies.
🔗 Timing with prisoner release
The first $400M cash delivery occurred the same day Iran released several American prisoners.
The administration initially said the events were separate but later acknowledged the payment was used as leverage to ensure the prisoners’ safe departure.
Bottom line
Obama did not “give” Iran billions. The U.S. returned Iran’s own money from a failed 1970s arms deal, plus legally owed interest, in a settlement designed to avoid a larger financial loss.
If you want, I can also break down the origins of the $150B talking point or explain how sanctions and frozen assets work.
I would think making public and private enemies spanning the country and across the planet would be a highly probable cause for 'nutjobs' to nut-up over. . . and yet here you are . . . making assertions your. . . digital ink has not properly supported.
This administration going about sticking its chest out and daring others to 'thump it' - can invoke a response somewhere-sometime-somehow. It has long been stated colloquially that some people will kill over a dime. . .and here we have an administration that if financially, emotionally, and spiritually bankrupting. . . the nation. . . and the world community. . . pushback ought to be anticipated. And not all of it by individual 'crazies' - newly minted.
OK..from chat gtp
The Obama administration did transfer $1.7 billion to Iran in 2016, and part of it — an initial $400 million — was delivered as pallets of foreign currency. This happened because U.S. and international sanctions prevented Iran from receiving money through normal banking channels.
However, the payment was not new U.S. taxpayer money, nor was it a gift or payoff. It was the settlement of a decades‑old legal dispute dating back to the 1970s, when Iran paid the U.S. for military equipment that was never delivered after the Iranian Revolution. The $400 million was the original Iranian deposit; the remaining $1.3 billion represented accumulated interes
Now, explain why a US president would give an enemy of the US billions in cash knowing that enemy finances entities that have killed hundreds of Americans and outwardly demand the death to the US, no matter the reason for the payment?
No sane president would have ever done that.
Done..
Now, you tell me how 11.1.42 is trolling when I answered questions YOU asked me
I am smart enough to process your comment, bugsy. So yes, I read it and. . . hold for sec:
I supplied an assist with a MAGA talking point! Yay! See, I am MAGA now too! /Sarc
What makes so many folks on the left ignore reality?
This made zero sense
I guess 'sense' depends on perspective.
See 11.1.52.
MAGA knows this. They have the ability to read, write, and do 'rithmetic - talking points are talking points. . . just like pocket protectors and pants backpockets - those tired old lies are kept 'readily' available for delivery when the truth won't do.
I no longer preach to the MAGA choir because they have their own 'hymnals' that they shop around for and buy up to repackage and resale as needed to rubes looking to 'purchase' cover for their stinkin-thinkin.
[ ✘ ]
You know what I know? I know Trump is not fit to hold public office. The reasons are well into the dozens. We have gone over many of them on this forum. When "conservatives" insist on sane-washing Trump , not only here and there but constantly, there are people who think they have no choice but to prefer Trump is gone. Obviously the number of people who want to kill him is microscopic otherwise he would be dead already.
[deleted][✘]
[deleted][✘]
[✘]
[✘]
Coming from rightwing conservatives that is fucking hilarious. Crazy, but fucking hilarious.
Who won the 2020 presidential election?
Crickets huh?
LOL!!
Biden did. Why do you ask?
You don't know?
Joe was elected but who was actually running the country is the real question that needs answering.
These idiotic conspiracy theories. Good grief.
Is it a real question. . . because as we all know politicians are Type-A personality. And Biden did not easily or soon fold to the ambitions of Kamala Harris in the 2024 election 'season.'
Shhh, don't ruin their entire beliefs system about "Sleepy Joe"...
I love that one headline about Trump falling asleep and waking up furious at staff. It’s like when your wife wakes up pissed at you because she dreamed you were having an affair.
And when you KNOW that someone is Hitler, what’s the right thing to do?
Isn’t it obvious? Don’t declare that you KNOW Trump is Hitler, just very publicly state that he COULD BE America’s Hitler. That way you have a shot at being Donald Trump’s couch humping VP.
Full manifesto from NY post
There is no evidence Trump is a pedophile. There is evidence he was friends with one at the time pedophilia (child sexual abuse) was occurring. There is evidence he is a "rapist" if you accept the definition given by the judge. It is well established that he is a traitor.
But we cant just kill someone because we believe they are guilty. He should be removed through due process in Congress.
It is a NATIONAL SICKNESS that we (any and all of us) have to be dragged into keeping us safe from. . . 'us.' Congress in spirit is intended to represent (and encourage) the ordinary citizens of this country for the good is failing to properly steward our politics due to wasting time on the 'fine arts' of political, professional, and even personal destruction.
How so?
"But we cant just kill someone because we believe they are guilty"
Agreed
"He should be removed through due process in Congress."
Believe him or not, Jeffries said if the dems take back the House, impeachment will not be a priority.
That will piss a lot of leftists off if this comes to fruition.
Trump tried to overthrow his own government. John Eastman recommended that Pence bypass established standards for accepting or rejecting electoral votes and Trump approved of the plan. He approved of it so much he made calls to Congress while the riot was going on to try and convince members to go along with the plan.
This does not even mention Trumps other efforts to subvert our electoral system.
He's a traitor and he will always be a traitor.
Sorry, but WANTING to do something, and actually doing something are two different things.
I guess you also believe Trump saying "come to the Capitol peacefully and patriotically" was treasonous too.
From Chat GTP
I asked if Trump wanting to override the 2020 election considered traitorous. This was the answer..
How Trump’s post‑2020 actions are usually described by legal experts
Legal scholars, judges, and prosecutors have used terms like:
Obstruction of an official proceeding
Conspiracy to defraud the United States
Interference with the peaceful transfer of power
Attempted subversion of election results
These are serious allegations, but they fall under criminal or constitutional categories — not treason.
Some commentators use the word “traitorous” in a moral or rhetorical sense, but that’s different from the legal definition.
Nowhere in there is the word "traitor" mentioned
You ignored what actually took place. Trump WANTED to steal the election and TRIED to steal the election.
How can you condone this??
You are back to the obtuse refusal to deal with the fact that one need not commit the legal crime of treason to be a traitor.
What makes you think this tired tactic of faux obtuseness is going to persuade anyone?
So, Cole Allen should be released without charges? He WANTED to do something, but didn't ACTUALLY do something.
I assume you'll be advocating for the immediate release of Ryan Routh, too? I mean, he never even fired off a shot.
How stupid can one post get...
The subject was the accusation in 14.1.3 was that Trump allegedly was a "traitor" because of events of Jan 6, nothing to do with yet another leftist trying to assassinate him.
Maybe you should read before you post.
I know we have been through this ten times before, but I will amuse myself
trai·tor
[ˈtreɪtə]
noun
traitor (noun)
traitors (plural noun)
a person who betrays someone or something, such as a friend, cause, or principle
=====================
Trump betrayed his country and is a traitor.
Then amuse yourself.
copilot
He attempted to overturn a certified election result.
He pressured state officials to “find” votes.
He pushed schemes involving fake electors.
He encouraged Congress and the Vice President to reject lawful electoral votes.
Multiple investigations described his conduct as an attempt to subvert the democratic process.
From this perspective, critics use the word “traitor” to mean betraying the constitutional transfer of power, not the legal crime of treason.
I'm sure you'd like to ignore the logical conclusion of your words.
And I am sure you'd like to ignore the failure of a gotcha with yours.
For the millionth time,
From chat gtp, I asked what the legal definition of traitor was. This is what I got..
Under 18 U.S.C. § 2381, a person is guilty of treason—and therefore considered a traitor—if they:
Owe allegiance to the United States, and
Levy war against the U.S., or
Adhere to U.S. enemies by giving them aid and comfort.
This is the only crime defined directly in the U.S. Constitution, which intentionally sets a very high bar to prevent political abuse.
Trump did none of this.
I again asked Chat GTP if Trump was a traitor for trying to override the 2020 election.
So is “traitor” an accurate label?
Legally: No — he has not been charged with or convicted of treason.
Time to stop with the stupid left wing lies.
That is an opinion and as such, worthless
No one here has ever stated that "traitor" is a legal term. Your gaslighting nonsense impresses no one.
Almost everything Trump says is an opinion. You must completely opposed to him then.
Of course some will argue you can be a traitor and not be charged with treason. Since being a traitor in that sense is based on opinion and feelings it is basically worthless in the real world.
If that were truly the subject, you wouldn't have opened with the fact that he was unsuccessful in your defense of him. His lack of success would have been irrelevant to whether or not he was a traitor in the legal sense.
[✘]
[✘]
[✘]
[✘]
Indeed.
You are claiming that a PotUS who tried to steal an election with fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement should not be labeled a traitor.
Buy a vowel.
let's start with him
By your definition Joe is a traitor to all that voted for him (including me) because he portrayed himself as a moderate unifier and was anything but when he got into office and took a hard left.
There is no comparing the traitorous acts of Trump to any PotUS. No PotUS has ever come close to trying to steal a US presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement.
Defending Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
Now we can all experience (and the youth of tomorrow too) why presidents are better seen and heard from. . .Less! We have appreciated presidents that did not feel the 'urgent' need to talk to us on a daily basis. . .and with Trump we can see why! (Think, 'empty can' driven down a paved road in a waffling wind!)
Read my comment again, it was about Biden. Care to respond to my comment instead of making it a competition between presidents? Or are you suggesting no one else can be considered a traitor because in your opinion he is the worst traitor?
Saying the same thing again and again and again does not make it anything but an opinion.
My response was based on your comment about Biden.
You have no rebuttal, just another tired strawman.
Again with this idiotic 'just an opinion' nonsense. Yes, this is my opinion: defending Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
The validity of this opinion should be obvious to everyone at this point.
So just a deflection. OK
Obviously not since millions of rational people are not buying into your(et el) opinion.
Tens of millions of people believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old too.
Your logic is yet again flawed.
In your opinion.
That is the best rebuttal you have??
The only one needed
Holy crap I wish this was understood by some here.
You forgot the pardoning of all the violent criminals who attacked the Police with fists, poles and chemicals on his behalf. That certainly gave aid and comfort to Putin who any reasonable rational American patriot would consider an enemy. Basically, the rights argument is that it wasn't an insurrection because it wasn't successful and he's not a traitor because he and Putin and Kim Jong Un who were both obviously very comforted by Trump behaving just like they would, aren't really rightwing conservatives' enemies.
Indeed, I left out a litany of charges for the sake of brevity.
But then there's this:
A traitor is legally defined as a person who commits treason by owing allegiance to a state and violating it through acts such as waging war against it or providing aid, comfort, or intelligence to its enemies. It is defined in the U.S. Constitution (Article III, Section 3) to strictly limit conviction to overt acts proven by two witnesses or open confession.
(LINK)
le chat AI
Here is a comprehensive list of the key actions Donald Trump and his allies took in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election results:
1. Pressure on State Officials and Legislatures
Trump personally pressured state officials, most notably Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's victory in Georgia. In a recorded phone call, Trump asked Raffensperger to "find 11,780 votes" and made false claims of fraud, even threatening legal consequences if the results were not changedcbsnews.com+1.
Trump and his allies also pressured legislators in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and other swing states to appoint fake electors or reject legitimate electors for Bidennytimes.com+2.
2. Fake Electors Scheme
The Trump campaign organized and submitted false Electoral College certificates in seven swing states, claiming Trump had won those states despite official results showing Biden's victory. These fake electors were intended to create confusion and provide a pretext for Congress or Vice President Mike Pence to reject the legitimate electoral votescbsnews.com+1.
3. Pressure on the Justice Department
Trump repeatedly pressured the Department of Justice (DOJ) to investigate baseless claims of voter fraud and to take actions to overturn the election. He considered replacing the acting Attorney General with a loyalist who would support his effortsnytimes.com+1.
Trump called DOJ officials almost daily, urging them to declare the election corrupt and to intervene in state vote certificationsen.wikipedia.org.
4. Pressure on Vice President Mike Pence
Trump pressured Pence to reject or delay certification of the Electoral College results during the January 6, 2021, joint session of Congress. Pence resisted, stating he had no constitutional authority to do sonytimes.com+2.
Trump publicly and privately berated Pence for not complying, even as the January 6 riot unfolded at the Capitolreuters.com+1.
5. Legal Challenges and Lawsuits
Trump and his allies filed dozens of lawsuits in key states, alleging voter fraud and seeking to invalidate or block certification of election results. Nearly all were dismissed for lack of evidenceen.wikipedia.org+1.
Trump's legal team, including Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and John Eastman, promoted conspiracy theories and pushed legal strategies to overturn the results, such as Eastman's memo outlining how Pence could reject electorsen.wikipedia.org+1.
6. Public Disinformation Campaign
Trump and his allies spread false claims of widespread voter fraud, both before and after the election, despite no evidence. This campaign was used to justify their efforts to overturn the results and to mobilize supportersnytimes.com+2.
7. Incitement of the January 6 Capitol Riot
Trump encouraged his supporters to come to Washington, D.C., on January 6, 2021, and to "fight like hell" to stop the certification of the election. His rhetoric contributed to the violent storming of the U.S. Capitol, which disrupted the certification process and resulted in multiple deathsreuters.com+2.
8. Pardons and Political Maneuvering
After returning to office, Trump pardoned many allies involved in the effort to overturn the election, including Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, and others. These pardons were seen as an attempt to protect those who supported his efforts and to signal continued allegiance to the false narrative of a stolen electionapnews.com+1.
9. Continued False Claims and Political Exploitation
Trump has continued to claim the election was stolen, using these falsehoods to rally his base, fundraise, and justify changes to election laws in states across the countrycbsnews.com+2.
Legal Consequences
Trump was indicted in federal and state courts for his role in these efforts, facing charges including conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstruction of an official proceeding, and racketeering. However, some cases were dismissed or delayed due to legal and political factorsAFP+3.
'nuh-uh'
I posted this information almost 24 hours ago, and no NT conservative has replied to contest any of it. When right wingers defend Trump concerning the election in 2020, they always mention three things 1. He peacefully left office 2. He had a line in his ellipse speech where he asked the mob to protest "peacefully" at the Capitol and 3. The congressional vote on the electors took place on the same day it was scheduled, Jan 6.
As we see from the material I posted from AI the events at the Capitol building were just a small part of Trumps attempt to steal the election. He tried to bully state officials in the swing states, he tried to bully his Department of Justice officials, he tried to bully his Vice President, into abandoning all ethical behavior , and he actively promoted numerous crazy conspiracy theories.
There is something wrong with people who refuse to see this and understand it all makes Trump eternally unfit to hold office.
I am confident that they know. The problem is that they care more about partisan politics than they do about what is good for the nation.
That is why I note that support for Trump is irrational, irresponsible, and unpatriotic.
It's not your fault. Keep pressing MAGA 'faces' up against the mirror (asking them to change their ways). Good job, JR! I applaud you. You are a solid 'rock' on NT and your input is wide and widely received (by all). And now that I have again embarrassed you (sorry!), because you do not ask for such attention let me say this message can apply to TiG as well!
MAGA supporters are not stupid people. They get up in the morning and read their talking points and then go out to 'capture' hearts and minds for their aggressive worldview. . . . They are smart enough to know when to fall silent so as to stick with the line they are running that day. It is a group effort.
Ironically, it is MAGA supported delusion. And it is intentional. That is, they see the same shameful, complex, difficult, and nasty undertakings by this administration that we experience. . .the difference is Trump is their self-interested president and they see themselves 'living' through him and his prescriptions. They do not wish to change and he does not make any demands (they will honor anyway) on them. Instead, every day Trump politically trots out the standard party line which demonizes liberals with no 'end' in sight.
Trump does a lot of nice things for MAGA—so they keep him with all his blemishes and pock marks scarring his mind and spirit.
[deleted][✘]
A specious claim.
Let's see you prove him wrong. Put forth facts and logic that disprove what John provided.
if you post something of substance to dispute the information I posted no one will touch it. If you cry "TDS" it probably will be in jeopardy.
I direct your attention to post 12.1.3 and 14.1.20 and subsequent posts after that. Nowhere was TDS mentioned.
Only thing there is I proved you wrong about traitor/treason.
You didn't like it so you deleted them.
Sad that it has devolved to this.
Does this mean we can have every one of your posts that mention Trump in seeds that have zero to do with Trump deleted for trolling?
You havent proved anyone wrong, no one here was claiming Trump committed treason. How can we be wrong about a claim none of us was making? You have the mistaken idea that unless there is treason there is no traitor. That is simply not true.
OK John. You go ahead and believe that and I will believe reality.
I refuse to be baited into another of your trolling baits.
I will pick the next subject to prove you wrong. There are so many to choose from.
Have a good night
I posted 15 items concerning Trumps attempt to steal the 2020 election. You are unable to dispute a single one of them.
Pure projection.
John has put forth a real argument based on verifiable facts.
You have no rebuttal, so you make the pathetically weak claim that he is just baiting you.
Make an argument. Take a stand based on facts and logic.
Again….i proved you wrong several times above and you just deleted the posts as trolling. i will not waste any more of my time conversing with you knowing tjat when you are proven wrong once again, you will hust delete the posts.
I listed 15 items showing how Trump tried to steal the election. You have not disputed any of them. Case closed.
but the trolling will continue
Hilarious. I have challenged you to several debates in the past and the first thing you do is throw insults. I’m done playing your games.
That would require a spine, facts and logic. Asking for things you know they can't provide is just being mean.
Demonstrate your claimed debate prowess.
[deleted][✘]
But then again, the good news is that we don't have people like that on NT!
le chat AI
Donald Trump has repeatedly promoted several conspiracy theories about the 2020 presidential election, which he lost to Joe Biden. Here are some of the most prominent ones:
1. The "Big Lie" – Widespread Election Fraud
Trump has consistently claimed that the 2020 election was "stolen" from him due to massive, coordinated voter fraud. He has referred to this as "THE BIG LIE," asserting that a conspiracy involving election officials, voting machines, and even foreign actors robbed him of a second term. These claims have been thoroughly debunked by election officials, courts, and Trump’s own Attorney General, William Barr, who stated that there was no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the election outcomepbs.org+2.
2. "2,000 Mules" Conspiracy Theory
Trump frequently referenced the debunked "2,000 Mules" theory, which falsely alleged that a network of Democratic operatives illegally collected and deposited ballots in key swing states. This theory was promoted in a film and has been widely discredited, with no credible evidence supporting its claimscitizensforethics.org.
3. Rigged Voting Machines
Trump and his allies, including lawyer Sidney Powell, claimed that voting machines were rigged using software created at the direction of the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez to flip votes from Trump to Biden. This theory was especially extravagant and has been completely debunkeden.wikipedia.org+1.
4. Italian Spy Satellite Theory
Trump also promoted the false claim that Italian military satellites were used to hack into U.S. voting machines and switch votes from Trump to Biden. This theory was among the most fantastical and has been thoroughly discreditedgoodmorningamerica.com.
5. "Stop the Steal" and International Conspiracies
Trump and his supporters pushed the idea that a secret cabal of international communists, Chinese intelligence, and even Republican officials conspired to steal the election. These claims were often tied to broader QAnon-adjacent theories and have been repeatedly debunkeden.wikipedia.org+1.
6. Sudden "Ballot Dumps" and Mail-in Voting Fraud
Trump claimed that "surprise ballot dumps" and mail-in voting were used to fraudulently boost Biden’s vote totals. He specifically pointed to pauses in vote counting in key battleground states as evidence of fraud, though these pauses were normal and explained by election officialstheweek.com+1.
These conspiracy theories have had a lasting impact, with a majority of Republicans now believing the election was stolen from Trump, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
In the 5 1/2 years since the 2020 election Trump has claimed hundreds of times that the election was stolen from him, with no evidence whatsoever. That is another reason he is a traitor.
So we are learning from the leftist assassin that he posted, many times, on his social media tjat Trump is Hitler, pedo, rapist, etc.
These are mainstream left wing views and are not fringe.
Funny thing is he posted Trump was a traitor with no proof. I wonder where ai have heard that line many times s/
That is the saddest part. Add to that the poll PBS news/ NPR that said 28% of democrats see violence as sometimes necessary to reach political goals and the only surprise is that this type of thing does not happen more often
I believe that number is probably much higher. Many radicals do not want to show their true colors as it may put law enforcement on them.
Would not surprise me at all.
What's all this noise about violent "leftist" rhetoric?
Is this aimed at democrats?
Most of the violent rhetoric over the last decade usually is. But Trout's post is obviously just pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of rightwing conservatives and defenders of Trump whining and crying crocodile tears over a picture of rocks and shells.
You must have used SPLC data for that gem.....
"crocodile tears over a picture of rocks and shells."
Let's play a game of hypotheticals, shall we...
Tell us what your response would be if we saw a headline that read.. Donald Trump Jr placed seashells on the beach that read out "86 44"
I'm sure you will be honest with your answer s/
Is it a game of presidential photo rhetoric? Is Trump "the Cool' president - now?! Why don't MAGA get it-death and killing is a necessary evil. . .not an 'Entitlement' for the big and bad!
If I saw "86 44" an investigation would be warranted. . . and base on the finding. . .for example it is simply a photo and no one is taking responsibility for laying it out on the sand, and Comey has denied it was a message to the president or anybody else. furthermore, he expressed his intent for posting it as "other" . . it would not MERIT an indictment.
So yes, the meaning of the image is ambiguous. . . it is not a crime as indicated by AMAZON ( Jeff Bezos 'hub'):
(Amazon is playing 'cute' by adding a caption: "Clean up on Aisle 47" to the link. We know what's up, nevertheless!)
Amazon is NOT just a photo of sea-shells. . . it is an intend to sell and popularize the 'concept' including by attaching it to another familiar phrase 'captured' by some conservatives. . . "We The People."
Moreover, in the case of seashells stating: "8647" - it has to be proven that it is not a combination (passcode) of some kind in a court of law. And, the 'phantom' placer has yet to be determined and evidenced .
These images and others like it should be allowed in this court proceeding.
Against who?
"ot an 'Entitlement' for the big and bad!"
Apparently many leftists think they are members of the "big and bad", because they keep trying to kill your president
I don't disagree with this and I don't believe anything will happen to Comey. What will happen is his pockets will hurt because of the massive legal bills he will accumulate to defend himself, just like he and the Biden admin did to many Trump officials. It was nothing more than a revenge tour by the Biden admin because Trump beat their queen Hillary and again their new queen Kamala.
That is the real reason liberals are pissed.
Apparently Trump, a sitting president, thinks he appears cool (think: "MATRIX"- agent enforcers) with 'napalm' waffling in the air around him. It's 'silly' AI.
Point of Clarification: Trump is the President of the United States. . . not specifically my president.
I will leave it up to Comey and his lawyers to 'square' attorney fees, or to sue the government over frivolous waste of time and expenditures. (Too bad your comment can not be entered as testimony of intent by Trump and MAGA supporters to exact revenge on a private citizen.)
If I was Comey and his lawyer, I would 'evaluate' the wisdom of having oh say- 6 or 20 people 'populate' his next court appearance wearing "86 47" versions of Amazon's t-shirts and hoodies!
LOL. Comey could hire a chicken as a lawyer and the case would still be thrown out, no need for an expensive defense.
"Now I may be just be a simple country Chicken lawyer your Honor, but I know when a client is being hen pecked!"
[✘]
Which seemed appropriate for the even stupider comment I was replying to. And frankly, my comment was silly. There's a difference between using something silly to expose the stupid vs just stating things that are demonstrably false and pretending they're real.
Jeff Bezos is a 'friend' to this president and yet this type of merchandising is actively permitted on his Amazon site!
According to Gemini:
Because traditionally, over the last thirty years, the violence has come almost exclusively from the right.
It's great that those on the right are finally speaking out against political violence, but the silence over the last thirty years in regard to rightwing conservative political violence and rhetoric is deafening. But you guys keep pretending to care, those crocodile tears are quite funny to watch.
Lol. Those studies are laughable
White guy with a tattoo kills his meth dealer in a robbery? "far right extremism"
If true it looks like the left may be trying to catch up.
Cherry picking an incident (which I couldn't locate in the data so I'm assuming was pulled from some rightwing Trumplodytes ass) which even if true, does nothing to refute the rest of the overwhelming amount of evidence of rightwing violence, is exactly what rational objective Americans now expect from Trump defenders so thanks for not disappointing us.
Now perhaps you'd like to address the hundreds of other deaths linked to rightwing extremism. Or perhaps you'll go for another deflection? Or maybe a what-about-ism this time, those are always fun.
It is rather funny, and says everything we need to know about a person, when rightwing conservatives either go silent, try to distance themselves, claim mental illness was the factor instead of the rightwing extremism or attempt to deflect claiming some outlier in the data is faulty, any time the long history of rightwing conservative extremist violence in America is brought up. You could hear a pin drop when the former FBI director said that " white supremacy and far-right extremism represent the "most significant" or "most lethal" domestic terrorism threats facing the United States". And of course, immediately after that was the rush from the right to dodge, deflect, "nuh uh", talk in circles and claim it's all lies that the fantasy deep state must be making up about the right.
Most on the left are rational enough not to try and compete in that area (which is why they're so far behind), but you're right, it is on the rise, and any increase is not a good thing. I have always condemned the use of violence or vandalism as political tools regardless of which side is using them, and this dipshit at the dinner should clearly pay for crimes he committed and planned to commit with intent and forethought. I fully support our government going after these violent extremists on either side of the aisle. But why the fuck should any American support going after a former government employee for posting a picture of rocks and shells in the shape of four numbers? What a complete waste of time and American taxpayers' money. On that note, do you support the prosecution of anyone found on the video from January 6th who was chanting "Hang Mike Pence!"? I mean, that's a little more specific than Comey so it would be pretty hypocritical not to at least condemn them, right? Or the rightwing attackers who beat police with flag poles that day? Do you support their arrest and prosecutions or are you one supporting their pardons? Who really is on the side of law there, the left or the right? Do we believe our eyes and what we all saw that day? Or do we just ignore it and pretend it was just a peaceful tour of the capital as some on the right suggested? Am I really supposed to gouge out my eyes and tear off my ears and cut out my tongue so I can fit in with rightwing conservative Trump supporters staying silent, acting like they see nothing wrong so that the monster in the house with them won't eat them? "Listen, we traced the call! It's coming from inside the house!!!".
nah, just stupid white asshats.
Twelve Charged in “Whites Only” Meth, Murder Ring – NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth