Text: Joe Biden on Climate Change, 'a Global Crisis That Requires American Leadership'

  
Via:  Nerm_L  •  one week ago  •  120 comments

By:   InsideClimate News

Text: Joe Biden on Climate Change, 'a Global Crisis That Requires American Leadership'
With every bout with nature's fury, caused by our own inaction on climate change, more Americans see and feel the devastation … It is happening everywhere.

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President Joe will be a 'thoughts & prayers' President.  Thoughts & prayers and five bucks will buy you a latte -- as long as you have five bucks.

California is an oil producing state.  California was built on fossil fuels.  That's not science; that's reality.  Will California do what science says needs done and just shut it all down?  Oh no, California can't do that because it would wreck the economy.  The power grid in California is a contributing factor in wild fires.  Solar farms won't do anything to lessen the risk posed by the power grid.

President Joe is promising to rely on miracles to address climate change.  President Joe is promising to throw money at the problem.  President Joe is promising establish international agreements.  President Joe is promising to accept the science.  All of that and five bucks will buy you a latte -- as long as you have five bucks.

Science won't build anything.  If we are going to build our way out of climate change, as President Joe suggests, then we'll need dirty-fingernail engineers and a blue collar workforce.  We'll need factories producing what is needed.  Addressing climate change will depend upon workers; not scientists.  We'll need to increase investments in vocational education.  We'll need capital to build factories.  We'll need natural resources, we'll need an industrial infrastructure, we'll need logistics, we'll need to roll up our sleeves and get our hands dirty.  President Joe won't be able to buy solutions at Walmart.

Science has proven to be good at identifying problems.  But engineers and blue collar workers are needed to identify and build solutions.  That's the hard reality that President Joe is denying.  Climate denial isn't just about rejecting the science; climate denial is about ignoring what will be needed to address climate change.

President Joe can believe in all the miracles he wants.  But miracles won't buy a latte.  President Joe is as much a climate denier as is President Orange Man Bad.  Following President Joe's approach to climate change won't accomplish a goddammed thing.


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



The following is the text of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's remarks on climate change outside the Delaware Museum of Natural History in Wilmington.

Good afternoon.

As a nation, we face one of the most difficult moments in our history. Four historic crises. All at the same time.

The worst pandemic in over 100 years, that's killed nearly 200,000 Americans and counting.

The worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, that's cost tens of millions of American jobs and counting.

Emboldened white supremacy unseen since the 1960s and a reckoning on race long overdue.

And the undeniable, accelerating, and punishing reality of climate change and its impact on our planet and our people—on lives and livelihoods—which I'd like to talk about today.

Jill and I continue to pray for everyone in California, Oregon, Washington and across the West as the devastating wildfires rage on—just as we've held in our hearts those who've faced hurricanes and tropical storms on our coasts, in Florida, in North Carolina, or like in parts of New Orleans where they just issued an emergency evacuation for Hurricane Sally, that's approaching and intensifying; Floods and droughts across the Midwest, the fury of climate change everywhere—all this year, all right now.

We stand with our families who have lost everything, the firefighters and first responders risking everything to save others, and the millions of Americans caught between relocating during a pandemic or staying put as ash and smoke pollute the air they breathe.

Think about that.

People are not just worried about raging fires. They are worried about breathing air. About damage to their lungs.

Parents, already worried about Covid-19 for their kids when they're indoors, are now worried about asthma attacks for their kids when they're outside.

Over the past two years, the total damage from wildfires has reached nearly $50 billion in California alone.

This year alone, nearly 5 million acres have burned across 10 states—more acres than the entire state of Connecticut.

And it's only September. California's wildfire season typically runs through October.

Fires are blazing so bright and smoke reaching so far, NASA satellites can see them a million miles away in space.

The cost of this year's damage will again be astronomically high.

But think of the view from the ground, in the smoldering ashes.

Loved ones lost, along with the photos and keepsakes of their memory. Spouses and kids praying each night that their firefighting husband, wife, father and mother will come home. Entire communities destroyed.

We have to act as a nation. It shouldn't be so bad that millions of Americans live in the shadow of an orange sky and are left asking if doomsday is here.

I know this feeling of dread and anxiety extends beyond just the fires. We've seen a record hurricane season costing billions of dollars. Last month, Hurricane Laura intensified at a near-record rate just before its landfall along Louisiana and the Gulf Coast.

It's a troubling marker not just for an increased frequency of hurricanes, but more powerful and destructive storms. They're causing record damage after record damage to people's homes and livelihoods.

And before it intensified and hit the Gulf Coast, Laura ravaged Puerto Rico—where, three years after Hurricane Maria—our fellow Americans are still recovering from its damage and devastation.

Think about that reality.

Our fellow Americans are still putting things back together from the last big storm as they face the next one.

We've also seen historic flooding in the Midwest—often compounding the damages delivered by last year's floods that cost billions dollars in damage.

This past spring Midland, Michigan experienced a flood so devastating—with deadly flash flooding, overrunning dams and roadways, and the displacement of 10,000 residents—that it was considered a once-in-500-year weather event.

But those once-in-many-generations events? They happen every year now.

The past 10 years were the hottest decade ever recorded. The Arctic is literally melting. Parts are on fire.

What we're seeing in America—in our communities—is connected to that.

With every bout with nature's fury, caused by our own inaction on climate change, more Americans see and feel the devastation in big cities, small towns, on coastlines and farmlands.

It is happening everywhere. It is happening now. It affects us all.

Nearly 200 cities are experiencing the longest stretches of deadly heat waves in 50 years. It requires them to help their poor and elderly residents adapt to extreme heat to simply stay alive, especially in homes without air conditioning.

Our family farmers in the Midwest are facing historic droughts.

These follow record floods and hurricane-speed windstorms all this year.

It's ravaged millions of acres of corn, soybeans and other crops. Their very livelihood which sustained their families and our economy for generations is now in jeopardy.

How will they pay their bills this year? What will be left to pass on to their kids?

And none of this happens in a vacuum.

A recent study showed air pollution is linked with an increased risk of death from Covid-19.

Our economy can't recover if we don't build back with more resiliency to withstand extreme weather—extreme weather that will only come with more frequency.

The unrelenting impact of climate change affects every single one of us. But too often the brunt falls disproportionately on communities of color, exacerbating the need for environmental justice.

These are the interlocking crises of our time.

It requires action, not denial.

It requires leadership, not scapegoating.

It requires a president to meet the threshold duty of the office—to care for everyone. To defend us from every attack-seen and unseen. Always and without exception. Every time.

Because here's the deal.

Hurricanes don't swerve to avoid "blue states." Wildfires don't skip towns that voted a certain way.

The impacts of climate change don't pick and choose. That's because it's not a partisan phenomenon.

It's science.

And our response should be the same. Grounded in science. Acting together. All of us.

But like with our federal response to Covid-19, the lack of a national strategy on climate change leaves us with patchwork solutions.

I'm speaking from Delaware, the lowest-lying state in the nation, where just last week the state's Attorney General sued 31 big fossil fuel companies alleging that they knowingly wreaked damage on the climate.

Damage that is plain to everyone but the president.

As he flies to California today, we know he has no interest in meeting this moment.

We know he won't listen to the experts or treat this disaster with the urgency it demands, as any president should do during a national emergency.

He's already said he wanted to withhold aid to California—to punish the people of California—because they didn't vote for him.

This is yet another crisis he won't take responsibility for.

The West is literally on fire and he blames the people whose homes and communities are burning.

He says, "You gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests."

This is the same president who threw paper towels to the people of Puerto Rico instead of truly helping them recover and rebuild.

We know his disdain for his own military leaders and our veterans.

Just last year, the Defense Department reported that climate change is a direct threat to more than two-thirds of our military's operationally critical installations. And this could well be a conservative estimate.

Donald Trump's climate denial may not have caused the record fires, record floods,and record hurricanes.

But if he gets a second term, these hellish events will become more common, more devastating, and more deadly.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump warns that integration is threatening our suburbs. That's ridiculous.

But you know what's actually threatening our suburbs?

Wildfires are burning the suburbs in the West. Floods are wiping out suburban neighborhoods in the Midwest. And hurricanes are imperiling suburban life along our coasts.

If we have four more years of Trump's climate denial, how many suburbs will be burned in wildfires? How many suburbs will have been flooded out? How many suburbs will have been blown away in superstorms?

If you give a climate arsonist four more years in the White House, why would anyone be surprised if more of America is ablaze?

If you give a climate denier four more years in the White House, why would anyone be surprised when more of America is under water?

We need a president who respects science, who understands that the damage from climate change is already here, and, unless we take urgent action, will soon be more catastrophic.

A president who recognizes, understands and cares that Americans are dying.

Which makes President Trump's climate denialism—his disdain of science and facts—all the more unconscionable.

Once again, he fails the most basic duty to this nation.

He fails to protect us.

And from the pandemic, the economic freefall, the racial unrest and the ravages of climate change, it's clear that we are not safe in Donald Trump's America.

What he doesn't get is that even in crisis, there is nothing beyond our capacity as a country.

And while so many of you are hurting right now, I want you to know that if you give me the honor of serving as your President, we can, and we will, meet this moment with urgency and purpose.

We can and we will solve the climate crisis, and build back better than we were before.

When Donald Trump thinks about climate change he thinks: "hoax."

I think: "jobs."

Good-paying, union jobs that put Americans to work building a stronger, more climate resilient nation.

A nation with modernized water, transportation and energy infrastructure to withstand the impacts of extreme weather and a changing climate.

When Donald Trump thinks about renewable energy, he sees windmills somehow causing cancer.

I see American manufacturing—and American workers—racing to lead the global market. I also see farmers making American agriculture first in the world to achieve net-zero emissions, and gaining new sources of income in the process.

When Donald Trump thinks about LED bulbs, he says he doesn't like them because: "the light's no good. I always look orange."

I see the small businesses and master electricians designing and installing award-winning energy conservation measures.

This will reduce the electricity consumption and save businesses hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in energy costs.

While he turns us against our allies, I will bring us back into the Paris Agreement. I will put us back in the business of leading the world on climate change. And I will challenge everyone to up the ante on their climate commitments.

Where he reverses the Obama-Biden fuel-efficiency standards, he picks Big Oil companies over the American workers.

I will not only bring the standards back, I will set new, ambitious ones—that our workers are ready to meet.

And I also see American workers building and installing 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations across the country and American consumers switching to electric vehicles through rebates and incentives.

Not only that, the United States owns and maintains an enormous fleet of vehicles—and we're going to harness the purchasing power of our federal government to make sure we are buying electric vehicles that are made and sourced by union workers right here in the United States of America.

All together, this will mean 1 million new jobs in the American auto industry.

And we'll do another big thing: put us on a path of achieving a carbon-pollution free electricity sector by 2035 that no future president can turn back.

Transforming the American electricity sector to produce power without carbon pollution will be the greatest spur to job creation and economic competitiveness in the 21st century. Not to mention the positive benefits to our health and our environment.

We need to get to work right away.

We'll need scientists at national labs and land-grant universities and Historically Black Colleges and Universities to improve and innovate the technologies needed to generate, store and transmit this clean electricity.

We'll need engineers to design them and workers to manufacture them. We'll need iron workers and welders to install them.

And we'll become the world's largest exporter of these technologies, creating even more jobs.

We know how to do this.

The Obama-Biden Administration rescued the auto industry and helped them retool.

We made solar energy cost-competitive with traditional energy, and weatherized more than a million homes.

We will do it again—bigger and faster and better than before.

We'll also build 1.5 million new energy-efficient homes and public housing units that will benefit our communities three-times over—by alleviating the affordable housing crisis, by increasing energy efficiency, and by reducing the racial wealth gap linked to home ownership.

There are thousands of oil and natural gas wells that the oil and gas companies have just abandoned, many of which are leaking toxins.

We can create 250,000 jobs plugging those wells right away—good union jobs for energy workers. This will help sustain communities and protect the environment as well.

We'll also create new markets for our family farmers and ranchers.

We'll launch a new, modern day Civilian Climate Corps to heal our public lands and make us less vulnerable to wildfires and floods.

I believe that every American has a fundamental right to breathe clean air and drink clean water. But I know that we haven't fulfilled that right.

That's true of the millions of families struggling with the smoke created by these devastating wildfires right now.

But it's also been true for a generation or more in places—like Cancer Alley in Louisiana or along the Route 9 corridor right here in Delaware.

Fulfilling this basic obligation to all Americans—especially Black, Brown and Native American communities, who too often don't have clean air and clean water—is not going to be easy.

But it is necessary. And I am committed to doing it.

These aren't pie-in-the-sky dreams. These are concrete, actionable policies that create jobs, mitigate climate change, and put our nation on the road to net-zero emissions by no later than 2050.

Some say that we can't afford to fix this.

But here's the thing.

Look around at the crushing consequences of the extreme weather events I've been describing. We've already been paying for it. So we have a choice.

We can invest in our infrastructure to make it stronger and more resilient, while at the same time tackling the root causes of climate change.

Or, we can continue down the path of Donald Trump's indifference, costing tens of billions of dollars to rebuild, and where the human costs—the lives and livelihoods and homes and communities destroyed—are immeasurable.

We have a choice.

We can commit to doing this together because we know that climate change is the existential challenge that will define our future as a country, for our children, grandchildren and great-children.

Or, there's Donald Trump's way—to ignore the facts, to deny reality that amounts to full surrender and a failure to lead.

It's backward-looking politics that will harm the environment, make communities less healthy, and hold back economic progress while other countries race ahead.

And it's a mindset that doesn't have any faith in the capacity of the American people to compete, to innovate, and to win.

Like the pandemic, dealing with climate change is a global crisis that requires American leadership.

It requires a president for all Americans.

So as the fires rage out West on this day, our prayers remain with everyone under the ash.

I know it's hard to see the sun rise and believe today will be better than yesterday when America faces this historic inflection point.

A time of real peril, but also a time of extraordinary possibilities.

I want you to know that we can do this.

We will do this.

We are America.

We see the light through the dark smoke.

We never give up.

Always.

Without exception.

Every time.

May God bless our firefighters and first responders.

May God protect our troops.


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Nerm_L
1  seeder  Nerm_L    one week ago

President Joe is going to fix climate change with 'thoughts & prayers'.  How can President Joe build anything if he refuses to get his hands dirty?

President Joe is only making empty promises and blowing as much smoke as a wildfire.  If President Joe plans to 'build back better' then he better start recruiting workers.  We won't be able to build anything without hammers - and - workers who know how to use them.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @1    one week ago

I take issue with one of the historic crisis listed: "Emboldened white supremacy unseen since the 1960s"   Where did that come from?  If anything it's a leftist revolution in America's cities! 

As for the premise of the article, ya I agree, Biden isn't a solution. He is a problem!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.1.1  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one week ago
I take issue with one of the historic crisis listed: "Emboldened white supremacy unseen since the 1960s"   Where did that come from?  If anything it's a leftist revolution in America's cities! 

That statement was pulled out of an elitist ass like everything else President Joe said.  President Joe is an uncommon man, after all.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one week ago
Biden isn't a solution. He is a problem!

How? He's never been in charge. He's never been President. Everything he's done has been done by consensus. Meanwhile, Trump has had the power of the pen, that he uses all the time to get around congress.

Oh here is another empty promise. Repeal and replace. Well, he repealed, but he never replaced hurting lots of Americans.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.1    one week ago

Yup, along with his head and his VP.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.2    one week ago
Oh here is another empty promise. Repeal and replace.

I think you forgot, I know it's been a long time. Sen John McCain let petty animosity stand in the way of Repeal and replace.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    one week ago

Vic,

The quote was on Day 1. Well, he repealed, but he didn't replace which he could have done by executive order as he does with everything else.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.5    one week ago

Perrie,

Again, it came down to one vote. John McCain was a small bitter man. He he turned his thumb down.

The President can't legislate.

That brain dead POS you are trying to win with hasn't even got a policy!!!!!

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    one week ago
petty animosity

bwah ha ha, the look on mitch the bitch's face when McCain voted was priceless.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.8  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    one week ago

First of all, I don't call Trump a Brain Dead POS, so if you want to talk to me, don't call Biden that.

The president has legislated by Executive order. That is a fact:

On the same day as his inauguration, President Trump optimistically signed an executive order directing agencies to begin preparing for the repeal of Obamacare. https://www.kidneynews.org/kidney-news/policy-update/repeal-and-replace-what-happened-and-what-lies-ahead

But he did that without even having a replacement plan ready. All he was interested in doing was getting rid of anything that Obama did because as you called McCain, he is a small bitter man.

And look at the lovely things he's done to the national dialog. I bet you never talked this way before Trump started to. 

Biden does have a policy. You can find it here:

https://joebiden.com/healthcare/#

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.4    one week ago

There was NO replace in the bill McCain voted against. Oh and BTFW, McCain wasn't the only Republican that voted against that bill so the 'petty animosity' is from those that choose to blame him and him alone. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.7    one week ago

I thought you weren't supposed to be talking to me?

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.11  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.5    one week ago

He never had anything to replace with.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.12  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.10    one week ago

says who? better here than some poorly moderated nostalgia based 1939 echo chamber, no?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.1.13  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.2    one week ago
How? He's never been in charge. He's never been President. Everything he's done has been done by consensus. Meanwhile, Trump has had the power of the pen, that he uses all the time to get around congress.

Vice President Joe wants to become President Joe.  Joe Biden has been in the White House before.

The 'Biden has never been in charge' argument completely glosses over Vice President Joe's eight years in the White House.

If President Barack Obama couldn't rely on Vice President Joe then why should be believe the country can rely on President Joe?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.14  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.8    one week ago
First of all, I don't call Trump a Brain Dead POS

Yet here on NT, individuals were allowed to call Trump everything under the sun for 3 years. Some do it in every post on every seed. You draw the line with a candidate that nobody really supports?  A man who lacks the ability to recite a simple sentence?


The president has legislated by Executive order. That is a fact:

As did his predecessor. So what? The mandate is really un-Constitutional, despite Roberts fixing it. You were ok with that right?


But he did that without even having a replacement plan ready. All he was interested in doing was getting rid of anything that Obama did because as you called McCain, he is a small bitter man.

He couldn't get rid of everything Obama did. There are still those federal judges issuing national injunctions. Cops are still being assassinated!


And look at the lovely things he's done to the national dialog. I bet you never talked this way before Trump started to. 

I started talking this way when I started reading devangelical's rants.


Biden does have a policy. 

And that is why your'e voting for Biden?

That's good Perrie. You are the only one I know voting for Biden who actually likes Biden!!!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.15  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.13    one week ago

OK, other than Dick Cheney, VPs really do much of nothing other than be President in waiting. So unless you can show me how he did something worth noticing, he hasn't been in power.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.16  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.12    one week ago
better here

No, the best place would be a dark alley.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.17  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.14    one week ago
Yet here on NT, individuals were allowed to call Trump everything under the sun for 3 years.

I am talking about ME. I don't talk that way. Please refrain from talking to me like that.

As did his predecessor. So what? The mandate is really un-Constitutional, despite Roberts fixing it. You were ok with that right?

Actually I was not. I don't believe in legislating by EO. For one thing, it never sticks. For another, it circumvents our system. So assuming I was OK with Obama doing it is wrong.

He couldn't get rid of everything Obama did. There are still those federal judges issuing national injunctions. Cops are still being assassinated!

Federal judges are allowed to do that and cops are getting killed under Trump's watch, not Obama's. 

I started talking this way when I started reading devangelical's rants.

Good, save it for him.

Biden does have a policy. 

And that is why your'e voting for Biden?

Look you said that Biden didn't have a policy when clearly he does. That is what we are discussing. Not why I am voting for him.

And yes, I do like Biden better than Trump. I'll give him 4 years and if he doesn't do what I like I will then vote for against him. I look at performance and dignity. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1.18  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @1.1.13    one week ago
If President Barack Obama couldn't rely on Vice President Joe then why should be believe the country can rely on President Joe?

Nerm, you really need to read up on the responsibilities of the VP. They are none unless the President wants them to be, so your statement means nada. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.19  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.17    one week ago
I don't believe in legislating by EO. For one thing, it never sticks.

No?  Obama kept saying he wouldn't be able to help people who came to the US illegally as children. Come the 2012 election he takes out his pen and enacts DACA. Everyone says it's illegal, except the courts say it's illegal for Trump to take it away. So it stuck!


For another, it circumvents our system.

Both Obama and Trump are using it for the same reason - Congress is bitterly divided. What is the alternative to gridlock?


Federal judges are allowed to do that and cops are getting killed under Trump's watch, not Obama's. 

Actually, many experts are questioning all the activism going on in the federal court system. Justice Thomas wants to end the nationwide injunctions. As for the cop killings, there is no question that it began with the deeply race based Obama. He had BLM over to the White House, he took sides in every racial incident under his watch and the Dallas massacre was just the beginning. All the democrat mayors have added to the death toll.


Look you said that Biden didn't have a policy when clearly he does. 

You say clearly he does, yet we never hear it. Perhaps Kamala can articulate it?


I'll give him 4 years and if he doesn't do what I like I will then vote for against him. 

I'm glad to hear it. I wish I could afford it.


I look at performance and dignity.

A woman who looks beyond performance. That is rare.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.20  Tacos!  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1    one week ago
"Emboldened white supremacy unseen since the 1960s"   Where did that come from?

Yeah, I agree. This is an invented problem that doesn't actually exist. It's not as if legions of good people are suddenly turning to white supremacy.

To the extent that they might be emboldened, I think that is only in response to a conservative (relatively speaking) white guy replacing a black guy they probably hated for being black. But that white guy has condemned white supremacy multiple times, so if they feel emboldened, it's a delusion.

The racial crises we see in the cities strikes me more as the far Left throwing gasoline on the smoldering embers of racial scapegoating. That is, some people of color have been conditioned to believe that everything wrong in their lives is the fault of some white people conspiracy. 

The trigger has been some policing events, and associated news coverage that asserts brutality only happens to innocent, unarmed, law-abiding black people. That's nonsense, but it feeds a comforting fantasy. One need not take responsibility for their lives if everything is always someone else's fault.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.21  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.20    one week ago

I've been searching for where this claim of "white supremacy" being the #1 threat comes from. You know what......  It's coming from academia!

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.22  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.20    one week ago

You actually think racism is an invented problem? That it doesn't exist? That the proud boys and others groups are a figment of the imagination?

Frank Meeink was a top neo-Nazi who inspired Edward Norton’s character in “American History X.” He now speaks out against it—and says members of his old neo-Nazi crew became cops.

In October of 2006, the FBI released an intelligence assessment titled, “ White Supremacist Infiltration of Law Enforcement .” Though the document—culled from FBI investigations and open sources—was heavily redacted, it reached a number of disturbing conclusions.

The assessment revealed that white supremacists “have historically engaged in strategic efforts to infiltrate and recruit from law enforcement communities”; that many of these white-supremacist infiltrators are known as “ghost skins” who “avoid overt displays of their beliefs to blend in”; and that the KKK have longstanding “ties to local law enforcement.” These firm ties between white supremacists and law enforcement   persist to this day . Last year,   Reveal   published   an investigative series   exposing the police’s proclivity for Facebook hate groups and racist memes, and in late August, former FBI agent Michael German compiled   an exhaustive report   detailing the prevalence of “racism, white supremacy, and far-right militancy in law enforcement” and the federal government’s non-existent response to it.

Link

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.23  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.20    one week ago
Yeah, I agree. This is an invented problem that doesn't actually exist. It's not as if legions of good people are suddenly turning to white supremacy.

Is that why the FBI elevated racial violence by white supremacists to equal footing with threats from foreign terrorists?  

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.24  Tacos!  replied to  Ender @1.1.22    one week ago
You actually think racism is an invented problem? That it doesn't exist? That the proud boys and others groups are a figment of the imagination?

Nope. I didn't say anything like that. Thanks for stopping by, though. Have a nice day.

 
 
 
Ender
1.1.25  Ender  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.24    one week ago

Seems to me that you were. And now once called on it want to end all discussion.

By the way, no one is saying that all the sudden people turned into racists. That is a made up meme.

What people are saying is they became more emboldened and out in the open.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.26  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.23    one week ago
Is that why the FBI elevated racial violence by white supremacists to equal footing with threats from foreign terrorists?

I'm not here to speak for the FBI. Maybe you could write them a letter?

I would hope any group committing violence for political purposes would be treated as a terrorist because that's what terrorism is. But if you think that kind of thing just started a few years ago because Donald Trump was elected, I think that's crazy.

These people have been around forever. If they have been treated better than they deserve by law enforcement (I don't know that that's true, by the way) then that's wrong and a correction is overdue. If that correction happened during the Trump administration, it sounds like you should be applauding Trump instead of blaming him. 

Now you might say that the FBI is independent, and this elevation you mention was not promoted by Trump. I have no idea if that's true. I don't see him fighting it either. Either way, I'm pretty confident that if the FBI did something you disapproved of, you'd be more than happy blame Trump. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.27  Tacos!  replied to  Ender @1.1.25    one week ago
Seems to me that you were.

Well, you were wrong.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.28  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.26    one week ago
I'm not here to speak for the FBI. Maybe you could write them a letter?

Deflection. 

I would hope any group committing violence for political purposes would be treated as a terrorist because that's what terrorism is.

They are not and it's by design. The GOP and conservatives have been fighting against the US government citing white supremacy as a threat to US national security for over a decade. The DHS put out a draft report on it in 2009 and the GOP squelched it. 

But if you think that kind of thing just started a few years ago because Donald Trump was elected, I think that's crazy.

This conversation isn't about WHEN it started, it's about whether Trump has 'emboldened' it's adherents.

The FBI statistics prove that it has grown exponentially since Trump took office. It's armed adherents walk unimpeded on our streets and hold marches where they fly the flags of traitors and conquered enemies. 

These people have been around forever. If they have been treated better than they deserve by law enforcement (I don't know that that's true, by the way) then that's wrong and a correction is overdue. If that correction happened during the Trump administration, it sounds like you should be applauding Trump instead of blaming him. 

There hasn't been a correction, there has merely been and acknowledgement of a stark reality. There are still no laws that allow 'domestic terrorists' to be prosecuted. 

Now you might say that the FBI is independent, and this elevation you mention was not promoted by Trump. I have no idea if that's true. I don't see him fighting it either. Either way, I'm pretty confident that if the FBI did something you disapproved of, you'd be more than happy blame Trump. 

Well one thing is clear, Trump said that HE would designate 'Antifa' as domestic terrorists but as you say, he hasn't mentioned any actions against any of the groups the FBI cited as actual threats.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.29  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.28    one week ago
Deflection

Please stop trying to use these antagonizing tactics with me. Just because you demand a thing (in this case that I should should explain the FBI - something I am in no position to do) and you don't get it, that does not make my response a deflection. 

What do you mean by such an accusation, anyway? Are you trying to accuse me of conducting my business here dishonestly? Is this your way of calling me a liar while dodging the CoC? What purpose do you think it serves? Do you think it advances a thoughtful dialogue? Do you imagine it makes you more persuasive? If you don't answer all of these questions to my satisfaction, do I get to accuse you of deflecting?

it's about whether Trump has 'emboldened' it's adherents. The FBI statistics prove that it has grown exponentially since Trump took office. 

That's correlation, not causation. How is the cause and effect of this measured? How is this claim reconciled with the fact that Trump has repeatedly condemned white supremacists? Isn't that a hole in this conspiracy theory?

Speaking of white supremacists specifically, he has said "they should be condemned totally." He also very publicly supports his Jewish family members and Israel, both of whom white supremacists tend to hate. If they truly are emboldened by him, that strikes me as an insane denial of reality. Isn't it time to start blaming white supremacists for their own behavior rather than scapegoating someone who publicly disapproves of them and works against their interests?

There hasn't been a correction, there has merely been and acknowledgement of a stark reality. There are still no laws that allow 'domestic terrorists' to be prosecuted.

So then it's not nearly as significant as you implied? Why are we talking about it then?

You seem to have something to say about the FBI. Why don't you just what you want to say instead of asking me questions for which you already seem to have the answers. It's silly to start out with 

Is that why the FBI . . . ?

When I didn't even mention the FBI. Just say what you think.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.30  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.28    one week ago
Trump said that HE would designate 'Antifa' as domestic terrorists

I doubt he he can. That's probably why it hasn't happened. All politicians do this now and then, but Trump, perhaps even more than most, declares a lot of things he would like, without realizing it's not actually in his power to do it.

According to this report, Domestic Terrorism: An Overview , the government doesn't even do that.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) do not officially designate domestic terrorist organizations , but they have openly delineated domestic terrorist “threats.” These include individuals who commit crimes in the name of ideologies supporting animal rights, environmental rights, anarchism, white supremacy, anti-government ideals, black separatism, and beliefs about abortion.

The difference is important because designation as a terrorist organization brings important legal consequences with it. The government can outlaw terrorist acts . And it can designate foreign groups as terrorist organizations. But domestically, people are allowed to organize, march, and so on to affect change in the government. That's the First Amendment at work.

The government would probably have to show a lot of hard evidence of a coordinated effort to commit violence involving most or all of its members for Antifa or any other group - and possibly in concert with some foreign group - to be officially treated as a terrorist organization.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
1.1.31  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.2    one week ago
He's never been in charge. He's never been President. Everything he's done has been done by consensus.  Meanwhile, Trump has had the power of the pen, that he uses all the time to get around congress.

He never attempted to do a damn thing.  From 2008 - 2016 he had every opportunity to step up and do something or influence Obama to do something.  Naturally, from 2008 - 2016, he was a lame duck VP.  A yes man.  Nothing more.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.32  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.29    one week ago
Please stop trying to use these antagonizing tactics with me.

If the word 'deflection' is antagonizing to you, perhaps your sensibilities aren't up to participating on an adult debate forum. 

Just because you demand a thing (in this case that I should should explain the FBI - something I am in no position to do) and you don't get it, that does not make my response a deflection. 

I didn't demand a fucking thing from you.

I asked you a simple question relevant to your comment and your agreement with Vic's. 

You AGREE that the ' claim of  "white supremacy " being the  #1  threat comes from" academia AND you think that it's "an invented problem that doesn't actually exist." 

Yet when I point out that the FBI elevated white supremacy to the same national security footing as foreign terrorism, instead of educating yourself about it and making a substantive reply, you post snarky bullshit. Then, obviously without any self reflection your post this:

What purpose do you think it serves? Do you think it advances a thoughtful dialogue? Do you imagine it makes you more persuasive?

Back at ya Tacos!. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.33  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.32    one week ago

Deflection.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.1.34  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.33    one week ago

Hypocritical. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.35  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.34    one week ago

Hypocritical.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
1.1.36  Raven Wing  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.1.17    one week ago
I look at performance and dignity. 

jrSmiley_79_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @1    one week ago
President Joe is only making empty promises and blowing as much smoke as a wildfire. 

Oh come on. Want to talk about empty promises. Remember when the Mexicans were going to pay for our wall? Jeeze. 

This is what all politicians do and if you think that Trump was any different, then you are fooling yourself. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.2.1  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2    one week ago
Oh come on. Want to talk about empty promises. Remember when the Mexicans were going to pay for our wall? Jeeze.  This is what all politicians do and if you think that Trump was any different, then you are fooling yourself. 

Orange Man Bad promised to build something tangible, something real, to address a problem.  Orange Man Bad didn't promise to fix the problem of illegal immigration by negotiating accords, providing financial aid, and redefining the problem.  Orange Man Bad didn't promise to fix the problems of the United States through international partnership.

Increasing border security has forced Mexico to do more to address the problem.  Orange Man Bad really has transformed Mexico's role in illegal immigration from being a gateway into being a wall.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.1    one week ago

blah, blah, blah... where's all his infrastructure jobs and his better less expensive health care plan?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.3  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.1    one week ago

Norm,

Don't give me the old "Orange Man Bad" to be dismissive of what I am saying. I could just turn it around and say "Biden Man Bad" to you, too. 

And you just totally ignored the point of my post. It was about empty promises. Did Mexico pay for the wall? It's a simple yes or no.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.2.4  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.3    one week ago
Don't give me the old "Orange Man Bad" to be dismissive of what I am saying. I could just turn it around and say "Biden Man Bad" to you, too.  And you just totally ignored the point of my post. It was about empty promises. Did Mexico pay for the wall? It's a simple yes or no.

Joe Biden's speech is his own words.  No one is putting words in Joe Biden's mouth.

Joe Biden is making promises.  But what are those promises?  Is President Joe promising anything tangible?  

We already know President Joe isn't Orange Man Bad.  But does Biden's speech really show that Biden is better than Trump?  Are thoughts & prayers, elitist attitudes, empty promises, and faith in miracles really going to fix the problems of the United States?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.5  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.4    one week ago
Joe Biden's speech is his own words.  No one is putting words in Joe Biden's mouth.

You're talking to me. Trump calls Biden lots of things... do you see me referring to those?

Joe Biden is making promises.  But what are those promises?  Is President Joe promising anything tangible?  

So did Candidate Trump. They are equally tangible or not.

I am not going to carry on this discussion while you try to divert. My question to you was simple. 

 Did Mexico pay for the wall? It's a simple yes or no.

And calling Biden an elitist while ignoring the one in the White House is kind of funny.

As funny as locking up Clinton. Oh yeah, that didn't happen either. It just made for a good rallying cry.

 
 
 
Ender
1.2.6  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.4    one week ago

Actually he is saying what needs to be said. That you find fault in what he said, I find very troubling.

Reading the posts here I can only come to the conclusion that no matter what Biden said you would just take it as an attack against poor donald instead of listening to what he is actually saying.

 
 
 
Dulay
1.2.7  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.4    one week ago
Joe Biden's speech is his own words.  No one is putting words in Joe Biden's mouth.

Yet you posted a summary which makes me wonder if you actually READ what Biden said. 

Joe Biden is making promises.  But what are those promises?  Is President Joe promising anything tangible?  

Why yes, YES he is. 

We already know President Joe isn't Orange Man Bad.  But does Biden's speech really show that Biden is better than Trump? 

If we as a nation want a POTUS that acknowledges science, YES, Biden is head and shoulders better than Trump. 

Are thoughts & prayers, elitist attitudes, empty promises, and faith in miracles really going to fix the problems of the United States?

The cognitive dissonance it requires to fail to critique Trump's 'Covid will disappear like a miracle' while desperately trying to pretend that Biden's speech was limited to 'faith in miracles' solutions is galactic. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.2.8  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.5    one week ago
I am not going to carry on this discussion while you try to divert. My question to you was simple. 

I'm diverting?  The seeded article is the text of a speech Joe Biden delivered.  The seed is Biden's own words.  The speech is Vice President Joe Biden trying to act Presidential.

What's interesting is that instead of praising Joe Biden or defending what Joe Biden presented in his speech, you have chosen to talk about Trump.  Joe Biden isn't even on your radar for discussion.  Orange Man Bad.

Joe Biden defeating Donald Trump really does mean that Biden will be in charge.  Are you prepared for that outcome?  Are you going to wait for President Joe to begin making decisions and imposing policy before thinking about the consequences of electing President Joe?

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.9  Sunshine  replied to  Nerm_L @1.2.4    one week ago
But does Biden's speech really show that Biden is better than Trump? 

No it doesn't.  Biden has been making empty promises for years and continues with his campaign. 

He cannot control climate change.

Civil unrest will continue as it did with Obama/Biden leadership 

He can't doing anything different than what has already been done for COVID.

His mental and physical health is very disturbing.

You will never get anyone to discuss Biden....only response is always but Trump...ALWAYS.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.10  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.9    one week ago
He cannot control climate change.

He can limit the impact people have on climate and encourage more sustainable less damaging power. 

Civil unrest will continue as it did with Obama/Biden leadership 

Again, Biden was VP, not President. And violence happened across America. What did Trump do? Oh yeah, he held up a Bible. 

He can't doing anything different than what has already been done for COVID.

There you are right. COVID is a done deal. But at least he doesn't hold self granulating rallies in states that forbid gatherings of more than 50 people during a pandemic, with no social distancing and no masks. That is the fine example of this President. And we wonder why we have morons who feel they can get on planes without masks.

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.11  Sunshine  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.10    one week ago
He can limit the impact people have on climate and encourage more sustainable less damaging power. 

Well no he can’t.  Unless he can get China to drastically make some changes anything the rest of the world does is essentially a waist of money and has no effect.

Again, Biden was VP, not President. And violence happened across America. What did Trump do? Oh yeah, he held up a Bible. 

Biden was a leader, being VP is no excuse, and why couldn’t Obama, the great uniter, do anything?

Biden is claiming he has more magical powers.

There you are right. COVID is a done deal. But at least he doesn't hold self granulating rallies in states that forbid gatherings of more than 50 people during a pandemic, with no social distancing and no masks. That is the fine example of this President. And we wonder why we have morons who feel they can get on planes without mask.

Biden has already had to walk back his claim he can’t force anyone to where a mask (more empty rhetoric), so I see no difference.

Is that his COVID plan…mask wearing? 

It easy to be the Monday morning quarterback, besides many Governors have praised Trump for his handling of the virus.

 
 
 
Ender
1.2.12  Ender  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.11    one week ago

So you are basically saying if other countries are going to pollute we should just throw our hands up and pollute too.

That you would actually think it would make zero difference is bizarre.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.13  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.11    one week ago
Well no he can’t.  Unless he can get China to drastically make some changes anything the rest of the world does is essentially a waist of money and has no effect.

Kind of have to agree with Ender here. While China has 1.3 billion people, the world has almost 8 billion, so I think a decrease of 7/8ths would have a big effect. Just look at the wildlife that has come back since COVID. And there is nothing saying that we can't make a deal with China for cleaner air. And for the record, China is trying to clean up it's air pollution. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/upshot/china-pollution-environment-longer-lives.html

Biden was a leader, being VP is no excuse, and why couldn’t Obama, the great uniter, do anything?

Biden was the VP and as such behaved as a VP does, so no he was not a leader. And we are not talking about Obama.

Biden has already had to walk back his claim he can’t force anyone to where a mask (more empty rhetoric), so I see no difference.

He's right, he can't. But he also acts like a leader should in a pandemic and wears a mask, doesn't hold rallies with no social distancing as recommended by the CDC and doesn't break the law of a state that has a limit of 50 people by using what he thinks is a loophole that the site is private property. That is the difference. 

Is that his COVID plan…mask wearing? 

Come on... 

It easy to be the Monday morning quarterback, besides many Governors have praised Trump for his handling of the virus.

Not many, some. But you seem to forget, he knew about it from the get go, and didn't even let the governors know. So the whole song and dance about him trying to keep panic down, I don't buy. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.14  Sunshine  replied to  Ender @1.2.12    one week ago
That you would actually think it would make zero difference is bizarre.

No, not me..

The most  polluting  countries seem to be aware they must reduce their emissions, but,  despite agreements such as the Kyoto Protocol, these carbon dioxide emissions continue to rise . To a greater or lesser extent, almost all the world’s countries are responsible for the high level of global pollution, but there are five that stand out from the rest, as shown below: https://www.activesustainability.com/environment/top-5-most-polluting-countries/#:~:text=%20Top%205%20most%20polluting%20countries%20%201,are%20in%20India%2C%20says%20the%20World...%20More%20

China is responsible for 30% of the air pollution.  Why would you think we could have any impact without their cooperation?

Why would you throw money at something that isn't working....that is truly bizarre.  And politicians stating we can control the air/climate alone is very misleading.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
1.2.15  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @1.2.12    one week ago
So you are basically saying if other countries are going to pollute we should just throw our hands up and pollute too.

What I'm saying is the United States can only address climate change with factories, dirty fingernail engineers, and a blue collar workforce.  International accords won't reduce the emissions of the United States.  Computer models, esoteric research, and scientific journals won't reduce the emissions of the United States.  Financial finagling won't reduce the emissions of the United States.  Buying carbon credits at Walmart won't reduce the emissions of the United States.

If the United States is going to address climate change then the first step will be creating an industrial infrastructure and a labor force.  The United States will need to shift emphasis toward vocational training.  The United States will need to shift emphasis toward applied research.  The United States will need to shift emphasis toward resource development.  The United States will need to shift emphasis toward industrial economics.

Where is any of that in Joe Biden's speech?  President Joe places his trust in science but is going to need engineers and blue collar workers. 

 
 
 
Ender
1.2.16  Ender  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.14    one week ago

It is not misleading when almost every scientist agrees that we have an impact on the environment, including air quality.

Just higher emissions standard help clean up smog in cities.

LED lights help save on energy costs.

Why do people think going backwards on these kind of standards would help anything.

Money put into new technology is never a waste Imo. Some will fail and some will produce results. Look at NASA going into space as an example. There were failures yet we ultimately succeeded.

China's main problem seems to be all the manufacturing plants and factories. They have been taking steps to curb pollution as should we.

We can either be on the frontier of discovery or take a back seat.

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.17  Sunshine  replied to  Ender @1.2.16    one week ago

Oh my gawd...can you not read?  Biden and his nutty left wingers are using the weather/climate change as a threat and stating he can change it all.

How can anyone buy into this bullshit?

https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/#

THE BIDEN PLAN FOR A CLEAN ENERGY REVOLUTION AND ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE

From coastal towns to rural farms to urban centers, climate change poses an existential threat – not just to our environment, but to our health, our communities, our national security, and our economic well-being. It also damages our communities with storms that wreak havoc on our towns and cities and our homes and schools. It puts our national security at risk by leading to regional instability that will require U.S military-supported relief activities and could make areas more vulnerable to terrorist activities.

He will be able to control hurricanes, tornados, floods, fires.  Who wouldn't vote for that guy?  jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ender
1.2.18  Ender  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.17    one week ago

Now you are just making things up. He never said he could control these things, he said the underlying causes need to be addressed.

He is also right about needed relief and the resources needed.

So continue to deny all you want.

Continue to vote for the guy that denies science...

(and then have the nerve to laugh at others)

 
 
 
Kathleen
1.2.19  Kathleen  replied to  Sunshine @1.2.17    one week ago

It's not going to be me.....jrSmiley_22_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sparty On
1.2.20  Sparty On  replied to  Ender @1.2.16    one week ago
China's main problem seems to be all the manufacturing plants and factories. They have been taking steps to curb pollution as should we.

We are and we are decades ahead of China in that regard right now.

I'm all for pollution control, carbon emission reduction and renewable energy.   Have been for decades but not at the expense or our economy, jobs or security.   There is no magic pill to make it all better instantaneously.

Too many read an article in a magazine and then think they are experts on the topic.   People like AOC are like that.   States like Calikakistan are like that.   The result?   Rolling blackouts during high demand periods.   Not good and something the left doesn't like to talk about.

All of this can be done smartly in the USA but it will take time to do it right.   Fossil fuels are not going to magically disappear entirely tomorrow.   They need to be phased out smartly when other alternatives can adequately provide the power demand required at all times.   Basically replacing what we have right now.

And China is not going to listen to us or the rest of the world anyway so screw em.   We don't need them to set our energy policies one way or another.   

 
 
 
Sunshine
1.2.21  Sunshine  replied to  Ender @1.2.18    one week ago
He never said he could control these things, he said the underlying causes need to be addressed.

And what is he claiming that addressing these underlying causes will change?  

If you read his plan, he is claiming he can change (which is the same as controlling) the weather.

(and then have the nerve to laugh at others)

Oh, you poor baby.  

Bidens climate change policy is in the AOC camp that everyone is going to die in 12 years from climate change, one can only laugh.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
2  seeder  Nerm_L    one week ago

We could follow the same scientific recommendations for addressing the pandemic.  Just shut everything down.  Shutter everything and hunker down.  Wait for the crisis to pass.

But that would require science shutting down as well.  No more computer models.  No more global travel.  No more scientific publications written in arcane, obtuse, pedantic gibberish.  The academic elite certainly won't volunteer to share the sacrifices they demand of the unwashed masses.

 
 
 
Sunshine
3  Sunshine    one week ago

Joe is not our savior.

Joe has been the creator of our problems not the solutionist.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
3.1  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Sunshine @3    one week ago
Joe has been the creator of our problems not the solutionist.

Joe Biden's attitude is insulting, demeaning, and dehumanizing.  Joe Biden pitches a holier-than-thou sermon while hiding his own sins.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    one week ago
Joe Biden's attitude is insulting, demeaning, and dehumanizing. 

What is Trump's attitude then?  I curiously await your spin. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
3.1.2  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    one week ago
What is Trump's attitude then?  I curiously await your spin. 

I realize there is a political desire to hide Joe Biden and divert attention to Trump.  But the text of the speech is Joe Biden speaking for himself.  The article is highlighting Joe Biden in his own words.

Thoughts & prayers, elitist arguments, and empty promises won't buy a latte.  Throwing dirt may help President Joe.  But will the country really be better off with President Joe in the White House?

We know Joe Biden is not Orange Man Bad.  But does Biden's speech really show that Biden is better than Trump?

 
 
 
Sparty On
3.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1    one week ago

If you don't agree with Joe, Joe thinks you are full of shit and will tell you so.

C'mon man!

jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.4  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.2    one week ago
But does Biden's speech really show that Biden is better than Trump?

Yes, yes it does.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
3.1.5  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @3.1.4    one week ago
Yes, yes it does.

How?

I'm still waiting for someone to praise Joe Biden and defend what Joe Biden said.  I'm waiting for someone to explain why President Joe's approach is going to address problems the country is confronting.

But Joe Biden isn't even on the radar of discussion.  Orange Man Bad.

It seems everyone is only concerned about removing Trump from the White House.  But we aren't replacing Trump with a turnip.

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.6  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.5    one week ago

What are you even talking about? You seem to be stuck in this bubble of protecting donald at all cost...

I love what Biden said. I think that is what is needed in a leader.

Sorry but donald is a complete disaster. If you think relaxing pollution controls, relaxing emission controls, relaxing water protections, relaxing fossil fuel standards, etc, is helping then there is not even any point to discussion.

Truly fucking bizarre that some think going backwards is good yet trying to look forward is somehow bad. And add the fact that some are saying scientists should not be listened to or hold any sway.

It is like I have entered the twilight zone...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
3.1.7  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Ender @3.1.6    one week ago
I love what Biden said. I think that is what is needed in a leader.

WHAT DID JOE BIDEN SAY?

Sorry but donald is a complete disaster. If you think relaxing pollution controls, relaxing emission controls, relaxing water protections, relaxing fossil fuel standards, etc, is helping then there is not even any point to discussion.

Yet, people are defending Donald Trump.  Who's defending Joe Biden?

Orange Man Bad.  We got it.  But word salad with Russian dressing won't avoid the consequences of electing President Joe.

Joe Biden is inaugurated in January - a miracle occurs - and all the problems of the United States will be fixed.  President Joe will make us all feel better about the mess we're in.

Ain't life grand.  Thoughts & prayers.

 
 
 
Ender
3.1.8  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.7    one week ago

Holy hell dude, do you even listen to yourself?

I am defending and praising what Biden said.

You are saying the same tired meme over and over like it is some grand phrase that ends all talk and ends with you and donald as winners.

You are now making up fictitious memes about Biden.

You are the one that refuses to look and read what Biden actually said and almost every posts you hit the reply button with has that one stupid saying.

You are actually ignoring reality.

 
 
 
Sunshine
3.1.9  Sunshine  replied to  Nerm_L @3.1.7    one week ago
President Joe will make us all feel better about the mess we're in.

He has had 47 years to practice.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @3    one week ago
Joe is not our savior.

Is Trump your savior? Inquiring minds want to know. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
3.2.1  Sunshine  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2    one week ago
No, seems Biden is yours....
512

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Sunshine @3.2.1    one week ago

To be honest with you, I'd take anyone to save this country from the undying shame of Trump and Trumpism.  I have no doubt that even you ( or me) are far more fit to be president than Trump is. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
3.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.2    one week ago
I'd take anyone to save this country from the undying shame of Trump

I feel exactly the same way about Biden.   Well not exactly but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades

So here we are again ......

 
 
 
Ender
3.3  Ender  replied to  Sunshine @3    one week ago

Creator of our problems? Omg...List these problems he himself created...

 
 
 
Kathleen
4  Kathleen    one week ago

The fires are a Trumps fault./s

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kathleen @4    one week ago

I just went to the store and saw a young guy holding a sign that said "Save a forest - vote for Biden!"/s.

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    one week ago

I am watching the peace relations in the Middle East. Very significant, but it will not be a big deal to the left. It is a great thing.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.1    one week ago

Kathleen,

See, it looks great, but it is dependent on a "Two-state solution" which Netanyahu has already said no to, so this will be but another bait and switch for the election. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.1    one week ago

It is a great thing and we are not hearing much about it from the biased media. There is also a summit going on this week between the U.S. and Qatar. This may help Qatar to heal a rift with its neighbors and could solidify one of Washington’s relationships in the ever volatile region.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross met leading Qatari officials yesterday.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.3    one week ago

Read above why, Vic.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.5  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.4    one week ago

I read it Perrie. The hate-filled Palestinians can go pound sand and the American left can join them. They had plenty of generous agreements that they turned their noses up at. The other middle eastern countries have moved on. The two-state solution will never be.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.6  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.5    one week ago

Then the peace agreement with the UAE will not be held to. That is what they are saying. So just an empty promise.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.6    one week ago

Who is they?

 
 
 
Adam_Selene
4.1.8  Adam_Selene  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.5    one week ago

Israel will never rest until they have all the land they believe God gave them. The Palestinians just happen to occupy a chunk of it.

A two state solution is the only one that will work  and unfortunately for the Palestinians their state will have to be in another country.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.9  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.7    one week ago

The UAE and Bahrain.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  Adam_Selene @4.1.8    one week ago
unfortunately for the Palestinians their state will have to be in another country.

Who would want them?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.9    one week ago

Link please

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.12  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Adam_Selene @4.1.8    one week ago

I disagree Adam. When Netanyahu is out of office, it might be a possibility according to Benny Gantz, but as long as Netanyahu is. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.14  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.13    one week ago

That clearly shows that the deal was predicated on Israel not annexing Palestinian territory for now. Israel agreed to an annexation pause only.  However, you do see that relations between Israel and it's neighbors have been improving?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.15  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.14    one week ago
However, you do see that relations between Israel and it's neighbors have been improving?

I am not sure. These are not the players that Israel needs, which is Lebanon and Jordan. Plus this may or may not hold. The only reason it might hold is that they all have a common enemy, which is Iran. But still, it does hang on a two-state solution and that won't happen under Netanyahu. 

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.1.16  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.2    one week ago

So then all this is meaningless? 

It just seems like anything that Trump tries to do is shot down. It’s as though no one will give that man any credit. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.17  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.15    one week ago
These are not the players that Israel needs, which is Lebanon and Jordan.

Why?  Lebanon is no longer a sovereign nation any more. It is mainly controlled by Iran.  Jordan is important why?


Plus this may or may not hold. 

Suppose it does?

 
 
 
devangelical
4.1.18  devangelical  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.16    one week ago
no one will give that man any credit. 

... especially the banks in this country. gee, I wonder why.

the peace agreement is a meaningless campaign gesture. a tiny win for the trump base in a sea of relentless ongoing losses.

 
 
 
Tacos!
4.1.19  Tacos!  replied to  Adam_Selene @4.1.8    one week ago
Israel will never rest until they have all the land they believe God gave them.

Israel would love to rest. If Israel rested tomorrow, Palestinians, Iranians, and the Arab states that still hate them would burn the place to the ground without hesitation.

Meanwhile, if the Palestinians, Iranians, and Arab states rested tomorrow, you know what happen? Nothing. Just peace.

A two state solution is the only one that will work  and unfortunately for the Palestinians their state will have to be in another country.

The Palestinians have had 75 years to build a state. Israel's leaders were ready to go on Day 1 and they have never stopped managing an ordinary, mature country. The Palestinian leaders have spent the last 75 years being terrorists.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.20  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Kathleen @4.1.16    one week ago

Kathleen,

It only means something if the conditions of the agreement are upheld, and Netenyahu will not uphold it. If Benny Gentz was in power, I would be more hopeful. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
4.1.21  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.17    one week ago
Why?  Lebanon is no longer a sovereign nation any more. It is mainly controlled by Iran.  Jordan is important why?

Of course, Lebanon is a sovereign nation. It also is the home to Hizballah. That is one of the two nations that Israel's true peace would come from and that ain't happening. Jordan is on Israel's borders, that is why it is important and they are hostile towards Israel.

Plus this may or may not hold. 

Suppose it does?

I would be pleased as punch since it's always better to have friends than enemies. But it will do very little for the kind of peace Israel needs, other than maybe uniting against Iran, which is why all of a sudden, these nations have decided to come to the table. As they say in the ME, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But once that enemy is defeated, my enemy is my enemy once more.

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.1.22  Kathleen  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.20    one week ago

So I guess you don't have any faith in Netenyahu.  I am going to wait and see what happens. I don't want to be too critical right now. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
4.1.23  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @4.1.21    one week ago
Of course, Lebanon is a sovereign nation.

From August 4, 2020:

"Lebanon is hurtling toward a tipping point at an alarming speed, driven by financial ruin, collapsing institutions, hyperinflation and rapidly rising poverty — with a pandemic on top of that.

On Monday,   the country’s foreign minister resigned , warning that a lack of vision and a will to implement structural reforms risked turning the country into a “failed state.”

The collapse threatens to break a nation seen as a model of diversity and resilience in the Arab world and potentially open the door to chaos. Lebanese worry about a decline so steep it would forever alter the small Mediterranean country’s identity and entrepreneurial spirit, unparalleled in the Middle East.

In the past, Lebanon has been able to in part blame its turmoil on outsiders. With 18 religious sects, a weak central government and far more powerful neighbors, it has always been caught in regional rivalries leading to political paralysis, violence or both. Its 1975-90 civil war made the word “Beirut” synonymous with war’s devastation and produced a generation of warlords-turned-politicians that Lebanon hasn’t been able to shake off to this day.

Since the war ended, the country has suffered a Syrian occupation, repeated conflict with Israel, bouts of sectarian fighting, political assassinations and various economic crises, as well as an influx of more than a million refugees from neighboring Syria’s civil war. The presence of the powerful Shiite group Hezbollah — a proxy army for Iran created in the 1980s to fight Israel’s occupation — ensures the country is always caught up in the struggle for supremacy by regional superpowers Iran and Saudi Arabia.

But the current crisis is largely of Lebanon’s own making; a culmination of decades of corruption and greed by a political class that pillaged nearly every sector of the economy."

https://apnews.com/dfd6b687da750f7f7c971e04a2bb0daf

That is not a sovereign nation.


It also is the home to Hizballah.

And that is even more to my point.


That is one of the two nations that Israel's true peace would come from and that ain't happening. Jordan is on Israel's borders, that is why it is important and they are hostile towards Israel.

I think they will follow the current trend with or without the Palestinians.


I would be pleased as punch since it's always better to have friends than enemies. But it will do very little for the kind of peace Israel needs, other than maybe uniting against Iran, which is why all of a sudden, these nations have decided to come to the table. As they say in the ME, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But once that enemy is defeated, my enemy is my enemy once more.

We have a long, long, long way to go before any or all of them defeats Iran. I'm thinking Iran falling from within more likely.

 
 
 
Dulay
4.2  Dulay  replied to  Kathleen @4    one week ago

Only the 60% that are burning in NATIONAL forests. Trump didn't clean the floors...

 
 
 
Kathleen
4.2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Dulay @4.2    one week ago

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dulay
4.2.2  Dulay  replied to  Kathleen @4.2.1    one week ago

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Greg Jones
4.2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Dulay @4.2    one week ago
Only the 60% that are burning in NATIONAL forests. Trump didn't clean the floors...
Obama left a terrible mess

 
 
 
Dulay
4.2.4  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @4.2.3    one week ago
Obama left a terrible mess

Is that you Donald? 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
5  seeder  Nerm_L    one week ago

President Joe is displaying the same elitist thinking as Michael Bloomberg.  Bloomberg claimed he could teach anyone to farm; dig a hole, drop a seed.  How hard is that?  But that elitist thinking completely ignores that we depend upon people digging holes and we depend upon seeds being available.  Even if it is as easy to teach people how to farm, as Michael Bloomberg suggests, it's still critically important that we have farmers.  Our survival depends upon people working as farmers.

Climate change won't be fixed with computer models, by researching trivialities, or with obtuse gibberish published in scientific journals.  That does nothing to dig holes and drop seeds.  Bloomberg (and President Joe) may be able to justify elite status and wealth disparities with that argument.  But the elite aren't going to fix climate change; our survival depends upon workers getting their hands dirty.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @5    one week ago

Norm,

No one is talking about Bloomberg, so I don't get your point. And if you want to talk about Elitist, Trump was a grade A Elitist in NYC. All you have to do is look into his housing policies for his properties. 

smh.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
5.1.1  seeder  Nerm_L  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    one week ago
No one is talking about Bloomberg, so I don't get your point.

I'm no one?  [deleted]

And if you want to talk about Elitist, Trump was a grade A Elitist in NYC. All you have to do is look into his housing policies for his properties. 

Yeah, Orange Man Bad.  We got it.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Nerm_L @5.1.1    one week ago
No one is talking about Bloomberg, so I don't get your point. I'm no one?  How elitist.

Don't you dare make this about me. You know damn well I meant in the scheme of the election. How utterly unethical of you. 

And if you want to talk about Elitist, Trump was a grade A Elitist in NYC. All you have to do is look into his housing policies for his properties.  Yeah, Orange Man Bad.  We got it.

No, people having double standards when they call Biden an elitist while being blind to the elitist in the white house. 

You are not interested in a dialog. You are only interested in pushing an agenda. Democrats bad. NY bad, Biden bad. This is why being a partisan is not for me.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.3  Raven Wing  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1.2    one week ago
This is why being a partisan is not for me.

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Sunshine
5.2  Sunshine  replied to  Nerm_L @5    one week ago
But the elite aren't going to fix climate change

I wasn't aware that Joe possessed climate powers to control the entire planet.  Good luck casting his powers over China.  

 
 
 
Sunshine
6  Sunshine    one week ago
We'll launch a new, modern day Civilian Climate Corps to heal our public lands and make us less vulnerable to wildfires and floods.

Scared to see what this is....some yahoo fascist who gets power controlling your life, family, and home.  

Don't say nobody ever warned you.

 
 
 
Sparty On
6.1  Sparty On  replied to  Sunshine @6    one week ago

I think he's having delusions of grandeur, thinking he's FDR or something.

 
 
 
Tacos!
7  Tacos!    one week ago

OK, so I agree in a very general way with Joe that we should do more to clean up our pollution and that the US should be a leader in that regard.

I'm pretty sure we make more pollution per capita than just about anyone else except China, so we are more responsible than most other countries.

But more than that, there will be new technologies and new industries associated with cleaning up the planet and we want to control and profit from the new economy, not be a slave to it.

A couple of things I take issue with (not meant to be an exhaustive list):

just last week the state's Attorney General sued 31 big fossil fuel companies alleging that they knowingly wreaked damage on the climate.

That strikes me as destructive governing. The state is being a bully. It wreaks of the same kind of predatory litigation we usually disapprove of in private law firms. The kind of litigation that only serves to make lawyers rich and destroy businesses that employ real people. This kind of thing smacks of trying to go around the prohibition against ex post facto laws. Just make environmental laws and enforce them going forward.

Find ways to motivate existing companies to operate cleaner or help their businesses evolve to a cleaner brand of energy production. All lawsuits like this do is fill the state's coffers with money they can piss away on useless garbage and give the politicians something to run in the next election. "Vote for me because I took action! (nothing has changed except the jobs lost, but I can say I took action.")

As he flies to California today, we know he has no interest in meeting this moment.

Irrational accusations like this don't make him look like the mature one running for president. Obviously, if Trump had no interest in "meeting this moment" (stupid language, by the way), he wouldn't be flying to California. You say you want to be the person who unites instead of divides? Don't attack someone who is obviously doing the thing you claim they aren't doing.

 
 
 
Dulay
7.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @7    one week ago
This kind of thing smacks of trying to go around the prohibition against ex post facto laws.

Since the suit cites an EXISTING law, that's false. 

Just make environmental laws and enforce them going forward.

As illustrated by the smoke from the west coast fires, pollution MIGRATES. If Texas pollutes the Ogallala aquifer, the ground water is fucked in 8 states. When the EPA and NOAA can be eviserated by a science denying POTUS, the laws on the books aren't worth the paper they are written on. 

 
 
 
Release The Kraken
8  Release The Kraken    one week ago

Joe Biden has no Idea he's running for president, yesterday he said He and Obama would be re-elected.

Can someone fill him in?

 
 
 
Sunshine
8.1  Sunshine  replied to  Release The Kraken @8    one week ago

jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

512

 
 
 
Dulay
8.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Sunshine @8.1    one week ago

512

 
 
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