'Trump will be convicted so fast it will make his head spin': former federal prosecutor
By: Carl Gibson (Alternet. org)
The question is this:
Does the author make a good point that Trump's influence over his supporters and the GOP in general does not have much impact in a formal court of law? Is it likely that Trump will be found guilty of one or more felonies?
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
NEW YORK, NY - APRIL 04:
Former U.S. President Donald Trump sits with his attorneys Joe Tacopina and Boris Epshteyn inside the courtroom during his arraignment at the Manhattan Criminal Court April 4, 2023 in New York City. Trump pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts stemming from hush money payments made to adult film star Stormy Daniels before the 2016 presidential election. With his indictment, Trump will become the first former U.S. president in history to be charged with a criminal offense. (Photo by Andrew Kelly-Pool/Getty Images) Carl GibsonJanuary 27, 2024Bank
Friday's $83.3 million judgment against former President Donald Trump in writer E. Jean Carroll's defamation lawsuit is proof that the former president can and will be convicted in criminal court, according to a veteran federal prosecutor.
In a Saturday thread posted to X (formerly Twitter), Glenn Kirschner — who was an assistant US Attorney in the office of the US Attorney for the District of Columbia — predicted that Carroll's judgment is merely the first guilty verdict in court Trump will experience in 2024.
"When cases move from the court of public opinion into courts of law, Trump loses," Kirschner wrote. "Here's the thing: the rules of evidence don't apply in the court of public opinion. So Trump lies every day in his desperate attempt to continue to deceive [and] grift from his ever-shrinking gaggle of supporters."
"Once Trump's criminal trials commence — and the rules of evidence and the rules of procedure control the proceedings — Trump will be convicted so fast it will make his head spin," Kirschner added.
Kirschner noted that Judge Arthur Engoron has yet to issue his ruling in the New York civil fraud trial, in which Attorney General Letitia James is seeking both $370 million in damages and banning Trump from serving as an officer in any New York-based company. Kirschner also reminded followers that while the ex-president tries to wage a war on prosecutors and judges, "the rules of evidence, the rules of procedure, and the rule of law all apply inside courtrooms."
""Yes, it's taken FAR too long and yes, our institutions of government need to learn that delay, timidity, and appeasement is NOT the way to deal with an insurrectionist and aspiring dictator. But criminal convictions of Donald Trump ARE coming," he tweeted.
Aside from Judge Engoron's pending verdict, Trump is also currently awaiting a ruling from both a DC Circuit Court of Appeals panel on the question of absolute broad presidential immunity, and a decision from the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) on whether his disqualification from the Colorado Republican primary ballot will be upheld.
Trump's first criminal trial is scheduled for March 4 in US District Court in Washington, DC, where Department of Justice special counsel Jack Smith has indicted the former president on four felony charges relating to January 6. However, those proceedings are on hold until the immunity question is resolved. In the meantime, the former president will likely have his first trial in Manhattan on March 25, where district attorney Alvin Bragg has indicted Trump on multiple felony counts relating to alleged hush money payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels.
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The merits of the criminal cases against Trump seem very strong. Seems to me an acquittal (barring politics) is unlikely. I suspect he will be found guilty of many of the charges and will be sentenced to something light like probation.
However, a guilty verdict will likely trigger lawsuits to determine if he is eligible to be PotUS.
This will be a mess. But what else is new when Trump is around?
I've got my fingers crossed SCOTUS grants trump full immunity and joe dials up a seal team before they realize what they've done. /s
That would be 1 way of cleaning out all the MAGA members of Congress and a few MAGA members of SCOTUS.
I can't wait to see if he's able to get a bond for the judgement while on appeal, or if he has to write the check himself. it's probably a fair assumption that he's leveraged to the hilt on his real estate assets. the online memes showing his properties photo shopped with EJC's name on them are hilarious. I saw an interview with some trumpco experts saying they don't believe trump has the financial liquidity to post that bond, along with the pending judgement in the NY fraud trial. $63 million of the EJC case never goes away, if his appeal fails, even if he is elected again. trump is starting to rack up quite the tally, I wonder if jared and ivanka are still answering his calls.
EJ Carroll Tower
You've asked the wrong question. The pertinent question is whether or not a formal court of law has influence over Trump supporters.
The courts are going to do whatever they want to do. Courts are autocratic; they're not democratic institutions. In the end, peaceful application of the law depends entirely upon public acceptance. So the danger is that the courts become too dictatorial and loses public trust. That breakdown in public trust would require the courts to use violence to protect the court's authority.
Democrats, in particular, obviously want to misuse the courts to rig the election in their favor. The end result may be growing distrust of government and an increasing need for government to resort to violence to maintain its authority.
The other possibility is that Trump actually engaged in serious wrongdoing and is being properly prosecuted for same.
I, for one, hold that any PotUS who tried to undermine the CotUS and who violated law in the process should be held accountable.
But that really is an issue separate from politics. Democrats are attempting to influence the court with their politics for their benefit. Like it or not that politicization makes the application of law a political litmus test.
Good for you. I, for one, hold that Trump is not the only President that has attempted to undermine the Constitution during my lifetime. Why prosecute only one?
Of course it is. It is an alleged crime (numerous crimes) that is being adjudicated by our legal system. The fact that this involves a politician does not change the fact that this is a legal proceeding.
Either the case has merit or it does not. If Trump truly is guilty he should be held accountable. The politics at play are largely coming from the Trump defender side with the claim that these trials are purely partisan and without merit. That is total bullshit.
No other PotUS has attempted to steal a US presidential election through fraud, coercion, lying, and incitement. There is no comparison of any PotUS to Trump.
trump doing a stretch at club fed is the most positive future option for a traitor to america...
Holding Trump accountable for his actions as PotUS is critical, IMO, for the health of the nation.
There is no comparison of any PotUS to Trump.“
How the “right” attempts to compare what is Trump and what absolutely isn’t even anywhere near fair to compare is fruity, and not the extra “happy” kind, moored to watt they look like when blind , ed partisan ships are 4 sale and wind up sinkin due to sails and wind, and not thinking, sounding like they been bin , binge binge, on the brink of overtly drinking , cause
, man o man ship overboard, like the snow job butting sum bought and brought forth taker and should have been drinker of the Maker, and Fifth taker, not taken, like a sixth sense, better known as non
cents, and can’t change, so let em sink and fail, too pompous and all knowing to pail bail, or post, something that consisted of logic and reason, too much for too many borderline Treason, with roots, that leave US an approaching Torrid Autumn, let’s hope by then one of these cases has caught em’ .
The projection and denial and delusion is deep and profound. Hopeless.
Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
The delusion and denial is absolutely fucking mindboggling
AFAIC, if that fuck is proven guilty and gets off the hook or gets pardoned, the constitution is out the window and all bets are off.
I at least want an ankle monitor on that man
kinky….
if he'd been guilty of sexual assault in a criminal court, a red dot would be following him around on the internet...
... as a registered sex offender.
And the fire drill with clown cars will continue no matter the verdict. A guilty verdict will demand even more lawsuits.
I plan on leaving for a cruise on November 8th heading up the Amazon River in Brazil and then both the east and west Caribbean we'll be gone 43 days returning to Miami on Dec 23rd, driving home about 4 hours, and then back to Orlando for a flight to Australia we will be there for an undetermined amount of time anywhere from a month to forever (we have permanent residency in Australia) and forever is sounding better every day.
Sounds fantastic. Best travels to you on your adventures, Kavika!
Thanks, TiG.
I don't recall authorizing this. I'd have to say no.
(But seriously, have a great time, take pics for us! )
No authorization needed, I'm jumping the rez
Thanks, Mr. Frost
Well, if you decide to trade gators for crocs, make sure you stick around here.
We have both in Florida and as far as I know it's the only place in the world that they co exist.
It's on the edge of the Everglades, gator cannot handle salt water for long but crocs can handle freshwater so along the edges of the Glades they co exist.
I didn't know there were crocodiles in FLA. Learn something new every day
oh crap, how can I manipulate the front page with you gone? your absence is going to be a horrible inconvenience for me. /s
Sounds like quite a cruise. Try to drop us a pic or two if you get the chance, especially of the Amazon.
Is there an Anishinaabe word for wanderer, restless feet, or 'he who can't sit still'? If there is, it should be your nickname, lol. You're quite the world traveler, Kav.
babaa-ayaa, ( he who wander around aimlessly for life never knowing where he is going or where he will end up, but he is as happy as a clam at high tide)
Take me!
Good luck, Kavika.
I truly hope that you see fit to return to the states.
wtf? he's ditching us just when the election deniers start breaking out their AR's... /s
Kavika is coming for the Vegemite..
Told you we rule the world..🤣🤣
good god, we're all doomed if that ever becomes a dietary staple...
Seeing it's made from brewers yeast you all go out with a bang..
Vegemite is rich in Folate, which can help prevent birth defects in babies; Riboflavin, which may help reduce the frequency of migraines; Niacin, which can help reduce “bad” cholesterol, improving heart health and Thiamine which plays an important role in the growth and function of the cells in the body.
See it's good for ya...it will even give you an Aussie accent..
I lost my sense of smell to covid. how can I tell if my vegemite hasn't already been digested once before?
See that's another advantage of veggie..if you chunder (throw up) it up it doesn't change colour..
So you are good to go again..😁
Speaking of veggie it's brekkie time...one guess what's on the menu..🦘
gulp ... >gag<
Wuss..😁
LMAO
I need to improve my cholesterol and talking with an Aussie accent sounds like a good side effect
So, you just trying to out globe-trot Taylor Swift?
Arvo...and you are most welcome to stay with us in the Great Southern Land...
Our gain, the United States loss..
🇦🇺🦘🐨
Thank you shona.
Have fun! And don't think of us back here with green eyes of envy
Do you have an extra room? LOL!
Maybe, maybe not. I won't make popcorn until the movie starts.
The movie started. Read the indictments. In particular, the indictment regarding Jan 6 th .
One can formulate an informed opinion on the merits of this case by reading the indictment, comparing the charges to the cited law, and using one's knowledge of the substantial amount of publicly available evidence.
Naw, just 3 years of coming attractions
Have you read the indictment I linked to?
The indictment is irrelevant to my comment
The indictment is a critical piece of this process. It identifies the charges and links same to the law. It provides a deep background description of why charges were brought and overviews the evidence against Trump.
Your reply suggests that you have not read the indictment.
Your reply is totally irrelevant to my comment 3 or any of my subsequent comments
I think this movie is over, just waiting for the credits to roll.
This is going to be quite a dramatic event. You might be confident of the ending, but the action is yet to be revealed.
trump may want to rethink trashing the only candidate left that said she'd pardon him. a woman scorned...
Trump burns his bridges before he even gets to them.
What. A. Fucking. Moron. No matter what the cost to him, he cannot keep his anal cavity of a mouth, shut.
I couldn't agree more.
It's ridiculous, the pace these charges have taken to be applied to this Cult leader, as is how I believe Trump is best described. The Republicans' failed this country when the Senate failed to convict Trump with overwhelming evidence during two impeachments, as they allowed him time and time again to get a pass where any other would have been discarded. The ignorance and indifference by the GOP party is just amazing. How women could excuse this pig's behavior is just unbelievable. His disregard for our laws, our sense of what is right, and our common agreement of what is ethically and morally correct, has so many of US scratching our heads daily, and it certainly is not because Trump is head and shoulders above, more like the flake that never received enough love, but as usual i digress. My final sentiment is, we will be very fortunate if we are able to escape another Trump presidency, as I'm sure it would trump the first and be the new worst.
Indeed. It's the first thing that turned me off to Trump YEARS ago.
The right equates him with God too, that's truly scary. I mean, Jesus hasn't wept this hard since he stepped off the Pinta at Plymouth Rock.
I just got a flash of Animal House and Bluto's rant
"Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
"He's on a roll, let it go."
I'd love to see that, but if his head doesn't spin this will work --
It took the Carroll jury less than 3 hours to award $83 million.
The various NY trials are all civil for damages. The DC, FL (both federal) and GA (state) trials are criminal.
It's looking less and less likely.
As far as I can tell none of the charges being tried holds a penalty of never holding public office, if that's the case those that would vote for him still will.
Now if he were formally charged, tried in the appropriate court and found guilty of insurrection, A14 Sec 3 would apply, but none of that has happened yet and the SCOTUS still has a ruling to ,make there as well.
I think it is far from over, personally I'm just waiting to see if a moderate centrist shows up on the ballot that I haven't already rejected.
I agree, none of the charges would, if Trump is found guilty, automatically (no judgment required) make him ineligible. The Jan 6th charges would certainly provide substance to §3 but it would still require a constitutional judgment call.
Nothing in the 14th Amendment requires a trial. In terms of how exactly we would go about excluding someone from eligibility for office under that section, the text is not very helpful.
I think people assume there should be due process. And while I support that impulse, it doesn’t always mean the same thing in all circumstances. According to the 5th Amendment, for example, the government cannot deprive a person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. But in the circumstance of someone running for president, neither life, liberty, or property are at risk. Therefore - arguably - a trial is not required.
In Trumps case, just his running for office, can and is a threat to life, liberty, and property, and , i must add, more specifically, women...young women, and older ones, need a perimeter between they and Trump, asz no ones iz around the Orange Fizz
Anyone else wondering how a person with a massively narcissistic, above-the-law god complex and a seemingly mindless cult following will react when finally brought to justice in a criminal court? I mean, the documents case alone is open and shut. There's no way he gets off on that, even with the needs-to-be-impeached (imo) Judge Cannon presiding. Will he fly off the handle and order his sickhead minions to revolt after a guilty verdict comes down requiring prison time? Would they happily comply?
he's already tweeting to his cult of morons about a civil war...
Over Texas defying the Supreme Court, right? Calling for states to send troops to fight the Feds at the border or something?
IMO the texas governor seems to be making a play for VP. he's calling for western states to send their national guard. I did read about another big truck convoy of morons to the border attempting to organize. based upon his past, if trump has mentioned either, he's probably trying to assume ownership of the narratives.
All the shrinks that I have read agree that the orange sociopathic narcissist will call up his demented, room temp IQ troops to fight again when he inevitably loses the next presidential election.
I'm half-assed expecting that from his cult of morons. either when the election is called, when it's certified in a joint session of congress (they've already had their dress rehearsal), or after the inauguration. trump has 9+ months to wind them up and fill them with bullshit.
Should have their license revoked for publicly psychoanalyzing someone they have never met.
He only had about two months to incite them before, the human shitstain/skidmark has a lot more time now.
Pretty sure we have ALL met Trump by now.
Not sure having trump living in someone's head counts.
Trump is either nuts or he is evil, which do you prefer ?
Not sure those are mutually exclusive.
I am neither a psychologist or a priest and he is not living in my head. How about you?
Trump is in your life and thus in your head same as everyone...
Not even close.
Exactly, Trump is in the news on a daily basis and is the almost certain GOP nominee. One would need to be ignorant of current events to not be dealing with Trump (in some way) virtually every day.
It is like a song one cannot get out of one's head. The endless saga keeps Trump as topic number one.
i wouldn’t rent him any space in my head, he’d self implode and go blind
[Deleted]
Besides, try to collect rent from that deadbeat.
to keep in Trumph colors, i’d segregate my head and be sure to discriminate against Orange skinned individuals, unless fully, skinned that is, as i skinned my knee on my teeth, after i stuck my boot in my mouth to use my shoelaces as dental
high gloss low energy star rated and pre and out post dated like a space hippie really high in orbit with a new revolution to resolve in a round about way a circular saw, in haft the time mind ya , than any or all of his over compensating
I'm still creeped out by how much alina habba and melania look alike... and how they both look like ivanka...
The scumbag is both.
She's had work done just like melania and ivanka
maybe trump gets a volume discount from the plastic surgeons...
Trump is a sociopathic narcissist. So both.
lol
lol
She's got the duck lips and had a nose job.
Wouldn't openly calling for civil war be an act of sedition?
mtg has done it outright a number of times, but trump has toned it down to innuendos and dog whistles recently.
not if it's part of your "heritage"...
Well, my "heritage" was rabble rousers who got drafted or got arrested for trying to organize coal miners. It's a bit like revolution but only sedition in the eyes of Big Coal
homie!
Your family, too?
yup, on my mom's side.
My grampap (my dad's dad) was a union organizer and was sent to Europe in 1943 by the local draft board
war has long been used to rid america of what the government considers irritants...
viet nam...
... as one example.
... with many others.
MAGA will say their daddy went into the military!
Trump won't pay a penny to the serial accuser before his election day win, and is unlikely to ever after.
None of the trumped-up charges will make it to trial before election day.
At some point not too far in the future any prosecution will be considered to be interfering in an election.
Did you read the Jan 6th indictment? Have you objectively looked at the charges, compared them to the laws that are alleged to be broken, considered the evidence and applied some level of objective reasoning?
The armchair litigator claim that the charges are without merit has no credibility. Make an actual argument that directly addresses the charges and why these charges are without merit.
You know he hasn't
And never will.
it’s not too tough to see how these Trump jock supporters get their hernias, they aren’t allowed content and context that is contrary to Trump,and Trumps Divine interpretations, cause I’ve heard, Trump hears A lot, Cause there are people saying, even if they’re Notbactually sayin, what ever it is Yrumpy wants you to
hear,
here
Regardless of a win, or not, that money is still owed. She can have it taken from him by court order if necessary out of assets. He can't claim bankruptcy on the civil awards either, like he can his own lawyers. It's estimated he's in debt to them by $100M.
can't claim bankruptcy on the civil awards either, like he can his own lawyers.
sure he can
Not as long as he has assets to seize...
It isn't like he can claim Chapter 11 and keep hotels, highrises and golf courses.
EJ Carroll Tower
The former 'president' has to come up with the cash.
his legions of suckers will pony up the cash...
It's hard to believe that there's enough morons out there to cough up all that cash and what about the NY case? I believe the initial amount was $375 million. I wonder if they will rule for less.
if the past is any indication of the future, trumps big mouth and courtroom theatrics could encourage the judge to exceed the prosecutors cash judgement recommendation...
I'm looking forward to court ordered asset forfeiture...
... and distress sales.
well below value, for cash...
my thoughts also considering the EJ Carroll verdict
his defective spawn are in the process of moving their money out of reach of daddy...
Then he cannot get an appeal. He has to pay a percentage within 30 days or there will be no appeal. Look it up.
Actually, it is Trump who always had mafia connections. He grew up as a criminal.
Exactly, that’s NYC building construction for you.
The shitstain has been a lifelong criminal, thug, grifter, sexual assaulter/rapist. What crimes hasn't he committed?
What crimes hasn't he committed?
Anything he has not been found criminally guilty of.
yet