There is video of 5 or 6 ICE beating on a man on the ground.  This is evidently the man who was shot.  If he was shot already why are five cops beating on him , and if he wasnt shot yet why did they shoot someone who was subdued? 

ICE says he pulled a gun on them, I wont judge that claim, but they need an honest investigation. Noem and Vance and Bovino wont accomplish that. 

There is video of 5 or 6 ICE beating on a man on the ground.

Do you have a link, a still shot doesn't show they were beating him.

Do you have a link, a still shot doesn't show they were beating him.

cnn

Interesting.  Did you notice someone running away before the shooting started?

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What this video shows is that you can be peaceably protesting and then 5 or 10 seconds later you may be dead.  Maybe that is the point DHS is trying to make. 

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I feel sure there will be no evidence he pulled his gun. 

Interesting.  Did you notice someone running away before the shooting started?

You mean the ice agent that took the guys gun? Yea, I noticed.

you can be peaceably protesting and then 5 or 10 seconds later you may be dead

gee, it's starting to look like if you're approached by 2 or more federal agents, your chances of survival are much better if you start shooting ... /s

  11.11 video.  Is that the pummeling you are talking about?

foxla

ICE says he pulled a gun on them

No.  They actually said that he threatened them with a gun.  Which "could" simply mean that while they were beating him his coat fell open revealing that he was armed, and they felt threatened by that.

Kristi Noem repeatedly said last night that Pretti was brandishing a gun.  Brandishing means it is in your hand and you are threatening to use it. 

=======================================

Kristi Noem repeatedly said last night that Pretti was brandishing a gun.

She has changed the wording since the last interview I saw, and is increasing the size of her easily debunked lie.

She misspelled "cell phone". 

In the videos I've seen the victim was trying to help a female victim up that had been shoved to the ground by ice then was attacked with a strong shove by the ice agent. Guess it doesn't pay to be a good Samaritan these days.

good Samaritan

... justifies a death sentence.. 

According to the Minneapolis Police Chief the scene at the shooting is extremely volatile. 

the person had a firearm with two magazines and that the situation was "evolving." DHS also distributed a photo of a handgun they said was on the person who was shot.

Quit exciting it then - WAIT FOR THE FACTS to come out.

Do you hold that we cannot opine on news until the results of a trial are announced?

If not, when exactly are we allowed to opine on news in your view?

For example, the Renee Good evidence now includes persuasive, clear videos showing what happened.   Are we allowed to opine on this now or must we wait for a full investigation (which the feds are trying to kill)?

Apparently the man had a permit to carry a gun.  ICE says he pulled it on them. Who is going to investigate this? Kristi Noem?  LOL. The ship has sailed in terms of ICE being taken at face value. 

We are supposed to believe that someone who was on the ground with five agents directly on top of him pulled a gun.  Was he going to blast his way out of there? 

where is your proof? 

How long is this offer good for?  I am sure there will be much more video coming out.

Quit exciting it then - WAIT FOR THE FACTS to come out.

Why wait for facts, they only get in the way.

Lol, it’s in the fucking article. 

I'll send you my address -

At 9:05 AM CT, as DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien wanted for violent assault, an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun, seen here -

The officers attempted to disarm the suspect but the armed suspect violently resisted. More details on the armed struggle are forthcoming.

Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, an agent fired defensive shots. Medics on scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject but was pronounced dead at the scene.

The suspect also had 2 magazines and no ID—this looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.

About 200 rioters arrived at the scene and began to obstruct and assault law enforcement on the scene, crowd control measures were deployed for the safety of the public and law enforcement.

This situation is evolving, and more information is forthcoming.

cnn

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If you want to believe everything ICE says, thats your problem.There is a smattering of videos coming out, one thing for sure is he did not pull a gun on them while he was standing up. Whether he tried to do that laying on the ground isnt definitive in the videos so far. 

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Is it the same person?  Look at the video at 11.11 AM

foxla

Where do you see deflection?   Deflection from what, exactly?

Just making claims that have no basis in reality is pointless and shows that you have nothing to offer.

Speaking of deflection:   

TiG@2.1.1 ☞ ... when exactly are we allowed to opine on news in your view?

what is it you want us to look at in that video?  that is after the man had been killed

It was the only video I could find at the time where 4 or 5 LEO were stopping a person.

He was armed?

In the United States?

He doesn't have the right to bear arms in the United States!

He doesn't have the right to bear arms in the United States

That's an interesting question. I wonder if the local authorities will comment on that when his identity is reported?

I'm posting this vid not because of anything other than it has a closeup of what happened. I didn't bother with actually listening to anything they said. Just so you know. 

If you go to 6:31 in the vid, you see the situation just before shots are fired. At 6:36-37 you see what may be relevant. It happens extremely fast so go to settings for the vid and play it at .25, or one-quarter speed. If you look carefully at the space between the guy who got shot and the top of the snowbank, you see something falling out of the area where the guy is. It happens very fast and is only visible for a split second. It could very well be the handgun depicted in the media. Might be something else. Looks like the right size, though. 

What happened on the ground , literally, is not clear. 

Do you support Gregory Bovino and Stephen Miller lying about this?  One thing that is quite clear in these video is that the dead guy wasnt trying to "massacre" anyone. 

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It certainly appears to be the weapon in the picture released by DHS.

One of the agents is running away with the gun right before they shot him.

Yes, that appears to be the gun shown on the car seat pics. In the vid, it's impossible to tell what that object was. Is it possible he got hold of someone else's gun in the struggle? There is a portion of the vid where it looks like the guy who got shot transfers something from his left hand to the to the right, a flash of something white or silvery, right between the sounds of the first and second shots. Then whatever the object is, comes toward the camera, directly in line with his right hand. 

Unfortunately, I doubt we're going to get any better video of what happened than this one. Based on all the vid I've seen so far, everything seems inconclusive. Waiting for vids that shows what let up to all of this in the first place. 

When did this turn into being about Randy Fine? 

None of that says he “pulled his gun on ICE agents.” It just says he had a handgun. Could have been in a pocket or a holster. I’ve seen video of the guy preceding this. The only object in his hands was a phone.

Fine is echoing what the DHS said. Is it correct ? 

Where did I say anything 'bout "pulled his gun on ICE agents"?????

So, what's your point to me with your statement?

Then why did you address your comment to me?

What are you talking 'bout - I didn't even mention Fine.

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Couldn't make a good view.

Interesting though is that there is another story about the only person killed was an ICU Nurse - didn't mention the shooter.

Where did I say anything 'bout "pulled his gun on ICE agents"?????

JR said it in the comment you responded to.

If anyone in MAGA can show me where the murder victim pulled his gun on ICE agents I will donate $10,000 to the Republican National Convention or a charity of your choice.

And then you responded with

I'll send you my address -

and offered that DHS statement, presumably as evidence that he pulled his gun on ICE agents.

So, what's your point to me with your statement?

That even if you believe everything in there, the DHS statement is not the evidence you appear to think it is.

Fine is echoing what the DHS said. Is it correct ?

I don't know what the DHS has said. What Fine said seems like his opinion, or the way he sees what's going on. Not sure how any of that helps shed light on what happened at the shooting. I guess you're done discussing that part of it? 

I don't know what the DHS has said. What Fine said seems like his opinion, or the way he sees what's going on. Not sure how any of that helps shed light on what happened at the shooting. I guess you're done discussing that part of it? 

Well, your government, you know the people who sent and keep ICE and Border Patrol there, completely lied about what happened. I've seen 5 or 6 videos of this, there is no image of the victim attacking federal agents, which is what Bovino and Miller said.  We have federal authorities lying at a level that at least equals if not surpassing violently dictatorial countries. 

There are NO images of this man attacking ICE or pointing a gun at them. 

At 9:05 AM CT, as DHS law enforcement officers were conducting a targeted operation in Minneapolis against an illegal alien wanted for violent assault, an individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun, Stephen Miller

There is no video of this.   What the video shows is ICE shoving a woman to the ground and the victim, Alex Pretti, trying to help her.  He is pounced on and pushed to the ground by five agents, and after a few seconds he was shot.  By sound, there were 10 gunshots.   ICE said he had a gun, which they showed a picture of. There is a video of an agent walking away from the scrum with a gun, presumably taken from the victim BEFORE he was shot. 

Sorry, but to my mind, you sound just like what you reported Fine as saying. All you have seen are some videos and you know every intimate detail already, along with motive. 

In my opinion, chances of knowing what actually happened, short of irrefutable video evidence, is probably somewhere around zero. Both sides have invested their ideology so heavily into everything that happens that truth or reason has pretty much left the building. I don't think either side is capable of telling the unbiased truth about any of it, at this point. 

Im not sure you are well enough informed to discuss these things. 

Im not sure you are well enough informed to discuss these things. 

I think it's more that I don't pass your political purity test. Don't get me wrong. This whole thing is a shit show, with both sides having fault. Most of it from the left, I think. They love it when people die like this. That's why they aren't asking what many are calling "the useful idiots" to stop harassing ICE and the Feds. They want people to put them in situations where things like this are bound to happen. 

They love it when people die like this.

Why would you say something so despicable?

Why would you say something so despicable?

I second that.

I'd be very happy if our federal law enforcement leaders, regardless of political party,  spoke truthfully about these things, but they dont. Your position seems to be "so what"?

Why would you say something so despicable?

What? Do you honestly believe that the Dems aren't encouraging idiots to put themselves into these situations for exactly this sort of thing to happen? Anyone with an ounce of reason knows that the Dems are ratcheting this up as high as they can without calling for outright rebellion. Of course things like this are going to happen and they know it. So, yeah, I think they love it. It's so useful for getting people more "peaceful", I think the codeword is.

I'd be very happy if our federal law enforcement leaders, regardless of political party,  spoke truthfully about these things, but they dont. Your position seems to be "so what"?

It's more like it would take an act of God to change it for the better at this point, and no, I'm not talking about merely Trump. Our entire political leadership for decades. It's not just that our government is beyond corrupt on both sides and at every level, there's absolutely nothing hopeful on the horizon with which to replace it with. So, no, it's not "so what?" It's more like, "what's the use?"

It's not just that our government is beyond corrupt on both sides

No one has ever been corrupt like Trump is. The refusal of the right to recognize this constitutes an irreconcilable difference.

To be very specific, I believe history will show that no PotUS has ever been as corrupt as Trump.   That no US administration has ever been as corrupt as Trump's is.

Harding has been surpassed.

And it should be obvious to anyone that no PotUS in our history has ever been more publicly unpresidential than Trump.

And that the buffoon is wholly unfit for office.

So based on your “reasoning” (I just threw up a little) Trump wanted to be shot? Charlie Kirk wanted to be shot? Or, at minimum Republicans were glad they were shot at?

So based on your “reasoning” (I just threw up a little) Trump wanted to be shot? Charlie Kirk wanted to be shot? Or, at minimum Republicans were glad they were shot at?

Don't know how you arrive at that. Politicians don't want it happening to them. They certainly don't mind the political capital that it gives them when it happens to someone else, though. 

Here's the deal. Many Dems are encouraging people to go "protest" but don't actually define what that means. They tell them they have a Constitutionally protected right to free speech but fail to identify just what that allows them to do and not to do. If ChatGPT is to be believed, here's the breakdown. 

What is protected by the First Amendment

Under the First Amendment, people do have the right to protest federal agencies, including ICE. That protection covers:

✅ Clearly protected conduct

• Peaceful protests (marching, chanting, holding signs)
• Harsh, offensive, or angry speech about ICE or government officials
• Filming agents in public (from a reasonable distance)
• Following agents in public spaces without interference
• Shouting slogans or insults (even ugly ones)

The Supreme Court has repeatedly emphasized that speech doesn’t lose protection just because it’s hostile or provocative (see Texas v. Johnson).

So Democrats are correct up to this point: protest itself is protected.

2️⃣ Where the protection ends (and ends fast)

The First Amendment does not protect conduct that interferes with law enforcement or public safety.

❌ Not protected (no matter what anyone says)

• Crowding officers to block movement
• Surrounding vehicles to prevent them from leaving
• Chasing or tailing agents in a coordinated way
• Obstructing arrests or operations
• Physical contact (pushing, grabbing, throwing objects)
• Threats or intimidation
• Refusing lawful dispersal orders

Once protest turns into obstruction, it loses constitutional protection.

The Supreme Court has been very clear that the government may regulate conduct — even expressive conduct — when it interferes with law enforcement duties (see Cox v. Louisiana).

Even though we see every single item on the "Not protected" list every single day in the news, I have yet to see a single Democrat tell the people they are encouraging that much of what they are doing isn't protected under free speech. That is, they have no protection when they do those things. So, either these Dems are morons and don't know anything about what's protected and what isn't or they are intentionally encouraging people to put themselves in those situations. I don't think they are that much of a moron. All they have to do is say the word "peaceful" and they can claim they told the people to be peaceful, so it isn't their fault! 

And so, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that things like this will happen the longer this drags out. Ergo, they want it to happen. If they didn't they'd plead with people to stop the nonsense. Stop putting themselves in these risky situations. 

If you think this reasoning is wrong, then make a counterargument, rather than backhanded insults. 

The root of the problem is Trump deploying ICE en masse in communities and not only allowing, but defending (through lies and obstruction of justice), ICE to engage in illegal violence and lethal force.

Of course the people will protest.   And of course some of them will obstruct.   That is human nature when a community is invaded by masked men rounding up their neighbors.

Blaming the Ds and the people for not being clear about 1st amendment rights misses the problem.   It is arguing at the fringe.

The problem is Trump.   To not recognize that is to not understand what is going on and why.

Politicians don't want it happening to them. They certainly don't mind the political capital that it gives them when it happens to someone else, though.

So, again, by your twisted logic, you think Republicans are glad Charlie Kirk was murdered.

Many Dems are encouraging people to go "protest" but don't actually define what that means.

Actually, they define it all the time.

And so, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that things like this will happen the longer this drags out.

No. There is no reason to assume that federal agents would go around beating and shooting unarmed people.

If you think this reasoning is wrong, then make a counterargument, rather than backhanded insults. 

Ahh, here we go. Right on schedule. “Stop insulting me! I’m the real victim because Tacos! was mean to me.” This is a perfect example of how MAGA has gone full Snowflake.

Try reading my post again. I didn’t insult you. I attacked what you said, not you personally. And if you really feel insulted, you are free to flag it. But you didn’t because you know you weren’t.

I think a statement is despicable when it declares - without evidence - that people “love” it when someone is killed. I stand by what I wrote.

Best vid I've seen so far about what actually happened. 

Starting at 3:32, the relevant portion of the vid begins. Some guy I've never seen before is giving a running commentary as he essentially goes frame by frame through the shooting. 

Assuming you've now watched it, it appears to me that the guy who did the shooting had to have known the other agent disarmed the protester before shooting, as it appears he's looking right at it. Of course, that's just what it looks like to me. I can't actually prove the shooter wasn't looking somewhere else rather than the other officer removing the gun from the protester. I don't know how he could miss it, though, as the gun appears to be what causes him to draw his own.  

Another factor is that the guy that gets shot appears to have something in his left hand. I have no idea what it is. It may be the thing I pointed out in the previous video I pointed out that appears to come flying out after or as he goes down, but I can't see it in this vid.  I don't know what that may have played a factor in concerning why this guy pulled the trigger. 

I dont think cops are supposed to shoot and kill someone unless they see a gun in his hand.  

The kindest thing you could say about these fools is that they are poorly trained. Trigger happy would be another description. 

If the justification for this is he had a gun on his person, then law enforcement would be justified in shooting anyone in a concealed carry state that resisted arrest. 

At no point does the victim have his hand on a gun. Quite the opposite. 

So, again, by your twisted logic, you think Republicans are glad Charlie Kirk was murdered.

Oh, yes. I think some, perhaps many of them, were. Especially the ones who I think tried to co-opt what Kirk stood for, for their own political goals. It was a great tool for beating up the left, was it not? I heard Republicans who admitted they didn't really know anything about Charlie Kirk say how terrible this was and then go on to say that the guy who killed him defines the left. They pushed what happened to him as much as possible until the news cycle clock moved onto something else. 

No. There is no reason to assume that federal agents would go around beating and shooting unarmed people.

Yes, there is. If you are breaking the law by rioting or interfering with law enforcement, refusing to disperse or back off, there's certainly should be an expectation of beatings. Shootings, as well, either because officers are legitimately threatened or that in some situations, things are going to get out of control. That's why riots are bad. Right and wrong won't prevent things like this happening when things get out of control. 

But you didn’t because you know you weren’t.

Aside from the fact that if I had said it I certainly would have been deleted, since I've been deleted for much, much less, no, I didn't not flag it for that reason. It was because I never flag anyone. I'd rather let what people say stand so that all can see what they say. Or, now that I think on it, I may have flagged one person once, as what he said was an actual threat of violence (more than usual) against someone. 

At no point does the victim have his hand on a gun. Quite the opposite. 

I agree that I do not see an identifiable gun in his hand, but he does seem to have something in his left hand I cannot identify. It doesn't appear to be a gun, from my perspective. I don't know what it looked like to the shooter. 

In any case, based on what I've seen so far, this shooting should be seriously investigated with impartiality. Problem is, is that even possible at this point? I wouldn't trust either side to be impartial. 

What if he didnt have a gun at all, what if his holster held a can of mace.  But a cop sees the holster and yells "gun, gun" and they start blasting away.  Does the yelling of "gun!"  justify shooting an unarmed man? 

Assuming you've now watched it, it appears to me that the guy who did the shooting had to have known the other agent disarmed the protester before shooting, as it appears he's looking right at it.

Clearly.   Other videos also show this.   The guy was disarmed and the agent who took his holstered weapon was already walking away before the first shot was fired.

What if

I'm not here to do what ifs. I'm here to try to bring unbiased analysis of video footage. 

I'm trying to find out why you think it was ok to shoot an unarmed man.  If a cop yells "gun,gun" when the person with the gun is not holding it but rather it is in a holster, do the cops have the justification to shoot him ten times ? 

Gregory Bovino was on CNN this morning. Perhaps you can look at this interview later when you have time.  Bovino repeatedly referred to the ICE/Border Patrol agents as the victims in this incident. He repeatedly said Pretti assaulted them.  He said that the very fact that Pretti was carrying a weapon , and was there, showed he came there to massacre agents.  He claimed that Pretti being on the scene constituted an assault on the agents.

If you think this country can withstand this level of incredible bold faced lying by the very top officials of the national government you are out of your mind. 

Was he resisting arrest? 

Everyone who is grabbed by six cops resists.  It is a natural bodily reaction to being grabbed by six people. 

What does that have to do with anything?

Trump officials are on tv this morning lying their ass off about this incident. Does that make you proud as a Trump supporter?  Todd Blanche is on Meet The Press blaming the whole thing on the Minneapolis police. 

He is saying wait for the investigation. No one with thinking ability believes there will be an investigation.  

Pretti was peaceful , he wasnt even near any agents until the woman was shoved to the ground and he went to help her up. Six guys jumped him, got him on the ground and shot him, supposedly because he had a holstered gun. 

I dont expect the Trump administration to stop lying.  So the violence will continue.

Everyone who is grabbed by six cops resists. 

Do you have any idea what led up to that?

As far as I know, there is no video of this.

veryone who is grabbed by six cops resists. 

No, that's not true at all. 

odd Blanche is on Meet The Press blaming the whole thing on the Minneapolis police. 

I'd put the blame on the state and local leadership, in large part for how they've refused to use police to deescalate situations.  The Walzes of the world want dead Americans and are acting accordingly.  

ICE is operating throughout the country. Why do these events keep in a city whose leaders are inciting violence against federal officers?

Memphis is run by a Democrat. ICE is operating full steam. No issues. Why?  

dont expect the Trump administration to stop lying.  So the violence will continue.

So the government lying justifies violence?  Does that only apply when Republicans control the government?  

The Walzes of the world want dead Americans and are acting accordingly. 

Very very true

The root of the problem is Trump deploying ICE en masse in communities and not only allowing, but defending (through lies and obstruction of justice), ICE to engage in illegal violence and lethal force.

In order to do a proper 5 why root cause analysis you need to keep asking why until you can no longer answer.  I think you left out a couple why answers.

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Of course, those with confirmation biases will only blame Trump and ICE. 

What pathetic projection.   You continue to try to blame the victims (Good and Pretti) even when we have video in both cases that show blatant abuse of lethal force by DHS.

Bovino was asked multiple times by Dana Bash for evidence Pretti assaulted the ICE cops.  Bovino said him merely being there constituted an assault. The American people are not going to tolerate this crap from federal Trump officials. 

ovino said him merely being there constituted an assault.

Exact words?

Find "State Of The Union" on CNN for Jan 25th  on You Tube and watch it.

No leftist here seems to be able to answer why the violence you see by agitators and insurgents in Minnesota is not played out in other cities where ICE is deployed full stem.

It seems to be a vicious cycle that shows no sign of stopping.  People protest, politicians egg them on, someone gets hurt, politicians lie about who is to blame before any information is gathered, people get more angry and protest (now not all peaceful or legally).  And round and round we go.

The only answer is because no other state/city leader is threatening ICE and inciting violence against them. 

It sure doesn't help.  The comments coming from the Administration sure doesn't help either.  Personally it disgusts me that not one politician seems to say "lets wait for information" before declaring who is guilty.

Of course, those with confirmation biases will only blame Trump and ICE. 

Rational thinking is gone if you start with a conclusion and work your way backward.  I also think alot of this has to do with overall feelings of law enforcement and peoples feelings about giving LEO the benefit of the doubt until they are found guilty in a court of law.

If you can't find a quote that he said what you claim, then he did not say it. I am sure there is a transcript out there that you can find and post. 

If you would like a reason why I am skeptical, note what I said earlier about progressives telling the truth.

I told you where to find the show. Its probably not on You Tube yet, but it will be. 

Do your own work for a change. 

I have been told by leftists here that is not how it works on here. I have been told by some here that if I make a claim, then I need to show a link backing me up, opinion or not. 

Why does that not apply the other way around?

I'm trying to find out why you think it was ok to shoot an unarmed man.

And now I'm trying to figure out why you think that is my position, so I guess we're even in that regard. 

Gregory Bovino was on CNN this morning.

Don't care. What he has to say has no bearing on whether or not the shooting was justified, as that is after the fact. 

If you think this country can withstand this level of incredible bold faced lying by the very top officials of the national government you are out of your mind. 

I know you read 2.1.46 because you responded to it. You said...

No one has ever been corrupt like Trump is. The refusal of the right to recognize this constitutes an irreconcilable difference.

Therin lies the problem, I think. You do not see the corruption on your own side. Biden was just as corrupt as Trump. Because of his corruption, we are in this current ICE mess. Not only did he open the border completely, not only did he actively seek to bring in immigrants illegally, he actively tried to stop those who tried to stem the tide. His job as president obligated him to secure the border and he actively and intentionally did the opposite. He should have been impeached for that alone. 

Now you want to claim Trump is especially evil because he's doing exactly the same thing, only in the opposite direction. Seems like a case of "every action has an equal but opposite reaction" to me. And that's just concerning the current illegal immigrant crisis. There's so much more to all of it. 

And no, I'm not saying that justifies what Trump is doing. I am saying it reinforces my claim that our entire government is so corrupt I can't see how it can be saved at this point. That you can't see that is what I see as the irreconcilable difference between us. 

I told you where to find the show

Yea...you told me to find it on youtube, but the next post you say it is probably not on you tube, so what is it?

Maybe you can find a trsnscript

You do not see the corruption on your own side. Biden was just as corrupt as Trump.

False equivalence!    How is it that Trump has ensnared so many minds?

This claim does not engage facts, it attempts to neutralize them.  “Biden was just as corrupt as Trump” is an assertion that only works if one ignores conduct, evidence, and does not distinguish allegations from proven actions.  Cite your objective evidence that Biden or any modern PotUS is as corrupt as Trump.   And do not gloss over the blatant corruption right in front of your eyes.

To me it looks like you are employing rhetoric to avoid confronting reality.

People have been wrongfully killed by the Federal government and this corrupt administration is lying to us all in spite of clear, convincing evidence.  They are squashing the investigations to cover this up.   How corrupt must this administration go before you finally recognize what is right before your eyes?

I am saying it reinforces my claim that our entire government is so corrupt I can't see how it can be saved at this point.

Exactly.  The politicians (all politicians) are saying exactly what you would predicted they would say and have absolutely nothing to do with what actually happened.  The fact that people are hanging on every word  politicians says is sad to say the least.  In my state the two senators claimed to know exactly what happened within the hour after it happened.  It was so generic it almost seems they had the speech already written waiting for an event like this to happen.

Trump is especially evil

Trump is evil because he is a pathological liar (when he gives a speech the fact checkers go into code red) , because he is a thief who has a number of credible fraud allegations against him (and has been found liable in court for fraud), because he tries to dehumanize minority groups, because he makes openly racist comments ( for example declaring black Africans to be low IQ) , because he tried to steal the 2020 election, because he is suggesting that he has the legal authority to run our elections, he is evil because he has been found liable for sexual assault and has had over 30 other women accuse him of sexual misconduct toward them. 

Anyone can say Trump is no worse than Biden or other presidents. It is a form of trying to brainwash the population, and frankly to some extent it works with the more gullible. 

In my state the two senators claimed to know exactly what happened within the hour after it happened. 

Exactly. That illustrates the problem nicely. Nobody cares about what actually happened in an unbiased, non-partisan sense. Practically everyone was spinning the narrative the moment it happened without knowing all of the facts, which still aren't known. And no one wants a trial to let the facts present themselves, at this point. They want a trial so the foregone conclusion can be officially established for political ends. 

People can look at the videos and get a pretty good general idea of what happened. Kristi Noem and Greg Bovino, and Stephen Miller, the three officials most directly overseeing ICE /Border Patrol activities clearly lied about what is on those videos. Now we are supposed to believe they will fairly investigate this? It is absurd and I am tired of the hundreds of absurdities connected to Donald Trump and his administration. 

People can look at the videos and get a pretty good general idea of what happened.

Agree, but even with what is available different conclusions can be drawn.  For instance while some may see 6 guys trying to subdue someone as overkill others may see it as necessary when subduing someone that is struggling.  Where someone may conclude a person was walking away with the only gun before the person was shot others may conclude LEO backing up meant the person still had a gun.

That is why a full investigation is needed .   

Do you think Noem and Bovino can be trusted to do an investigation ? 

I have a concern.  I am also hoping they are not the only ones doing it.

Practically everyone was spinning the narrative the moment it happened without knowing all of the facts, which still aren't known.

This is itself a ridiculous spin.

Using the same absurd excuse of 'waiting for the evidence' that Trump supporters are clinging to.   That is a deflection tactic.   We have mountains of clear video for the Good killing and very good, clear video evidence for the Pretti killing.   

What, exactly, is the point where one can opine on these wrongful killings — the blatant abuse of lethal force?

This is just sickening to watch, Drakk.   You all can see these videos, yet you refuse to acknowledge that this administration is clearly condoning and covering up the illegal and immoral use of lethal force against US citizens who were in no way domestic terrorists (or even close).   Worse, Trump supporters are trying to blame the victims ... being 'useful' for this corrupt administration.

So. You've jumped on the ideological purity bandwagon as well, have you? If one doesn't see everything the way you do, or respond the way you would, then they are the problem? Sorry, TiG. This goes way beyond whether this shooting can be defended or not.

There is no good side in this. No side that is right and the other wrong. Not anymore. I'm not joining anyone's side. 

he American people are not going to tolerate this crap from federal Trump officials. 

The last President lied and covered up the origins of a virus that killed millions of people.  

You tolerated that just fine. I think you can survive this. 

You've jumped on the ideological purity bandwagon as well, have you?

No, I am reacting to the overwhelming evidence.   One must work to not recognize that the DHS is abusing lethal force to kill fellow citizens, lying about it (blatantly), and trying to cover it up.

The Trump administration is corrupt.

Open your eyes, Drakk.

There is no good side in this. No side that is right and the other wrong. Not anymore. I'm not joining anyone's side. 

Exactly, but I am not sure that not joining sides is allowed

The fact that you et. al. are framing this as 'taking sides' is sickening.

This is not about sides, this is about reality.   The federal government is condoning and trying to cover-up the unjustified, unnecessary killing of fellow citizens and you, et. al. post rhetorical games.

Despicable.

This is not about sides

Don't be naive.  

The "sickening", "despicable" shows a bit of desperation because the comment can't survive on its own.

Your posts routinely try to blame the victim and run interference for a demonstrably corrupt administration that condones and covers up the unnecessary and unwarranted killing of fellow citizens.

Posts like that are sick and despicable.

Open your eyes, Drakk.

Try reading my posts, TiG. I think it's all corruption. But because I don't think so in your approved way, you're not satisfied. I don't pass your purity test. I can live with that. Easily. 

I read your posts.   You are trying to normalize the corrupt acts of this administration.   Trying to equate Trump's actions with those of Biden ... trying to argue that this is just normal corruption in our government, normal acts by our government.   Just more of the 'nothing new here' bullshit.

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ You do not see the corruption on your own side.

You frame this in terms of 'sides'.  No, wrong, this is about reality.  Fellow citizens are being unnecessarily killed by the federal government.   This is outrageous, and you try to paint this as nothing special.   Your uses of 'sides' reveals how you are viewing this ideologically / politically and not in real human terms based on the evidence.

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ Biden was just as corrupt as Trump.

Yet again, this is an idiotic claim that ignores reality.   How anyone could even think to post such nonsense is amazing.

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ Because of his corruption, we are in this current ICE mess.

It was not corruption; it was Biden incompetently failing to take the border seriously enough.  And to address that, the proper steps are to secure the border (easy enough to do) and then go after murderers/rapists/drug-dealers/... along with recent illegals (e.g. less than one year).   Do you seriously NOT recognize what Trump is doing beyond that?

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ Not only did he open the border completely, ...

This is irrational.   It ignores reality.   Good grief man, what drives you to post such nonsense?    Do you truly believe that during the Biden administration, our borders were unmanned?   That our border patrol was no longer doing their jobs?   Did illegals just casually cross our border with no one stopping them?   If so, there is no reasoning with you ... in any way.

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ Now you want to claim Trump is especially evil because he's doing exactly the same thing, only in the opposite direction.

No, wrong, utterly ridiculous.   Trump securing the border is correct.   Trump going after bad guys and recent illegals is correct.   Trump more than doubling ICE with poorly vetted, poorly trained personnel and sending them en masse publicly in communities rounding up any illegal and inciting the public, is both wrong and incompetent.  It is flat-out stupid.   The buffoon running our nation is condoning and trying to cover up the unwarranted and unjustified killing of US citizens.    And you spend your time trying to claim that Trump is no worse than Biden.   Just sickening to read this crap.

Drakk@2.1.76 ☞ And no, I'm not saying that justifies what Trump is doing.

Does not matter that you write this disclaimer; you are arguing that this is nothing new.   You are ignoring the overwhelming, obvious evidence that this is entirely new for the USA and is entirely bad.   You are not criticizing the outrageous actions of Trump and the federal government; you are gaslighting ... you are normalizing.

Sick, despicable and trying to make it about the poster shows how little the post has.

A perfect example that you have nothing to offer in this matter but bullshit.

A perfect example of trying to deflect away from a post that was accurate.

I would continue with this Algonquin Round Table repartee but I have snow to plow.

Stay safe.

Posts like that are sick and despicable.

Posts like that make the poster an accessory after the fact. Guilty of trying to cover up a crime.

Murderers. 

Quick update. It was reported the agents had bodycams, according to an NBC report. Hopefully that will shed more light on what happened. 

I would think that if there were any footage of Pretti holding or even reaching for a gun we would have seen it by now. 

So the body cam footage is of no use? 

I'm sure it can be of use, but if it were exculpatory I think they would have shown it by now.  I guess we shall see. 

I don't know what it will reveal. I'm just happy it exists. If this was an unjustified shooting, there needs to be accountability. If it was justified, then we need to move on. 

6 on 1, and the one is shot and killed. Yep, ripe for the right wing to justify it by twisting themselves into knots. 

As a Marine - you know the rules of engagement - and it was only 5 to 1.

please explain what the rules of engagement are for active duty US military members on american soil ...

As a Marine - you know the rules of engagement - and it was only 5 to 1.

They took his gun, that he was legally carrying, then shot and killed him. Case closed.

That was sarcasm - something MrFrost would understand having been an active duty Marine.

something MrFrost would understand having been an active duty Marine.

<fist bump>

They took his gun, that he was legally carrying, then shot and killed him. Case closed.

Break out the water cannons, as cold as it is they'll disperse....

Hopefully the water freezes before it finds it's target

Bovino just said that the dead guy wanted to "massacre" federal agents. Video shows that is clearly not true.  We are living in something well past Orwell. 

Video shows that is clearly not true.

How so?

He didnt have a gun out.

This man was allowed to carry a gun. Apparently Minnesota is an open carry state. He was filming ICE not pointing a gun at them. It appears they tackle him to the ground for no good reason. Whether he tried to draw a gun while he was on the ground with five ICE on him cannot be discerned from the videos so far. 

This man was allowed to carry a gun. Apparently Minnesota is an open carry state.

How do you know? Open or concealed carry in Minnesota still requires a permit. The reporting I've read so far says he didnt even have ID on him.

 He was filming ICE not pointing a gun at them. It appears they tackle him to the ground for no good reason

Do you have a link to that video?

Whether he tried to draw a gun while he was on the ground with five ICE on him cannot be discerned from the videos so far. 

Exactly.. although a pretty good indicator is all the agents backing away

I dont know about that. One of them may have yelled "he's got a gun" even if it was still in his holster. 

There is ZERO evidence so far he intended to massacre agents and do "maximum damage" as the lying sack of shit Bovino said in a press conference a while ago. 

There is ZERO evidence so far he intended to massacre agents and do "maximum damage" as the lying sack of shit Bovino said in a press conference a while ago. 

I agree that seems like a bullshit claim.

Bovino just said that the dead guy wanted to "massacre" federal agents

I don't know about that because there has been no conclusion to an investigation, but the question remains.....why would someone bring a loaded gun with 2 full clips to a "protest"?

First of all there will be no real investigation . Bovino and Noem have already repeatedly lied about what happened. Fantastic lies.  Anyone who believes they will conduct a fair investigation is dumber than a bag of rocks. 

Maybe Pretti carried his gun everywhere. Isnt that what people do in open carry states?  

This is what "brandish" means

Maybe Pretti carried his gun everywhere.

How do you know that? Why would he need a full clip installed and 2 more full clips on him ready to use? Usually when that happens, the person plans on using it, and not on like minded people.

How do you know that?

Because that is what open carry laws permit.

Would common sense not tell you that if he is carrying an excess of rounds to a protest of a group you hate, then that person planned on doing something with those rounds?

Maybe someone was looking to have the next George Floyd statue raised for them?

I dont believe a word Noem, Bovino, Bondi, Trump and Vance says. 

Bovino said this morning that maybe he had two guns on him.  If a "second gun" shows up it will be because they planted it on the body. 

When someone repeatedly lies and you can see it with your own eyes everything they say is unreliable. 

When someone repeatedly lies and you can see it with your own eyes everything they say is unreliable

Hoo boy. It's a wonder anyone believes a progressive, then, right?

You are yet again extrapolating into fantasy to try to paint the victim as the bad guy.

This continues a stream of sick posts from Trump supporters carrying the water for a corrupt administration no matter what they do.

Despicable.

Isnt that what people do in open carry states?  

I live in an open carry state and have yet to see anyone carrying.  I own a gun and the only time it is out of the lockbox is when I am driving to a range.  And even then it is in a locked carry on

I don't know how true it is but I read somewhere he had no id either.  Of course that proves nothing but is interesting

Of course that proves nothing but is interesting

It is. I am not a leftist, so I don't automatically come to a conclusion and beat a wrong conclusion to death by posting the same video over and over and demand everyone see my side. 

My guess, and this has been proven true several times with these leftists, is that he was hoping to get taken into custody, and since they had no idea who he was because of no ID, ICE would hold him for several hours until they ID him, and if released, could claim ICE held an American citizen for several hours without a lawyer. 

He would take his "story" to CNN and leftist lemmings would lap it up as the truth. 

It is a shame it ended the way it did, but no one sane brings a gun with three full clips to a "protest" if they do not intend on doing harm to those that are not like minded. 

Possible theory but if I was hoping to get stopped or arrested no id would make sense but a gun would only be inviting disaster.  I sure as hell would not struggle.  

I remember the good old days when we wanted to get arrested for protesting we would sit in the way and get peacefully taken away by police, no muss no fuss.  We would pretty much make our point and be let go.

There is still much to learn about this, I hope we do.

I sure as hell would not struggle.  

Probably did it for the cameras as his friends were filming it all go down, but of course, there is no video of what he did to get the attention of ICE.

I wonder why that is?    s/

Like most situations like this alot of what happened is left up to peoples imagination based on what they would like it to be.

True..

I saw in one of the stories of the shooting that witnesses, of course, told what happened. Curious as to how many of those people interviewed were in cahoots with the guy that got shot

I/m sure those "eyewitness" accounts are not biased at all   s/

I would have to question any eye witness account of someone that was protesting because they hate ICE or Trump. 

That is why a professional investigator is needed, to wade through the bullshit being shoveled and get to the facts.

I read the guy that got shot was o e of the ICE-watchers, like the girl that was shot for hitting an ICE agent. The left and the media (the same thing) are trying to portray him as a simple ICU nurse just watching from the sidelines. Being a watcher is not illegal, but it puts yet another layer into what his intentions were.

Here- dont say I never gave you anything

BASH: Here with me now is U.S. Border Patrol Commander-at-Large Greg Bovino.

Thank you for being here.

Sir, you are still in Minneapolis. And I want to get to a lot of questions that we have that are unanswered. First and foremost is that Alex Pretti approached Border Patrol agents with a 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun. I want to go back to one of the videos. And I know you can see it there.

And I want to ask you about what you're seeing, because multiple angles of this incident show him holding up a cell phone and recording it, not a gun. Did he at any point pull out his weapon?

BOVINO: Well, Dana, good morning and thanks for having me. The weapon and -- we do know that the suspect did bring a weapon, a loaded 9- millimeter high-capacity handgun, to a riot. We do know that.

As far as what happened in that intervening moment with the video that you just showed, that's going to come to light through the investigation. That's being investigated. And those facts and those questions will be answered soon enough.

BASH: OK, but the homeland security secretary is not waiting for that investigation to take place before saying that Alex Pretti was -- quote -- "brandishing a weapon."

Let's go to video seven, because, of course -- you know this far better than I -- the definition of brandishing is waving or flourishing something, especially a weapon, as a threat or in anger and excitement.

That's just a still photo of what Alex Pretti appears to be holding. There is nothing that we have seen that showed him, as Secretary Noem said, brandishing a weapon.

Have you, sir, seen something different to support what the secretary said?

BOVINO: Dana, I think what we need to take a look at here is the situation in its totality. What happened leading up to this situation?

The suspect decided to inject himself into a law enforcement action. What's not being said here is the fact that Border Patrol agents and law enforcement were conducting a targeted law enforcement effort against a violent illegal alien that was nearby, and that suspect injected himself into that law enforcement situation with a weapon.

And what happened between the -- when that situation first came about and the shooting, that's going to be investigated and we're going to get to the facts of that.

BASH: Well, you said yesterday that this looks like a situation where the individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement.

What evidence do you have that he wanted to massacre law enforcement? Because all the videos that we have -- and I do want to -- we just have this still shot up now, but I do, control room, want to play one of the other videos. Let's play video number one again.

It doesn't look anything like he's trying to massacre law enforcement. In fact, he was filming and then it looked like he was trying to help another individual there who was pushed down by law enforcement, and then they went after him.

BOVINO: In fact, I believe that the fantastic training that our law enforcement partners have, the fact that they're highly trained prevented any specific shootings of law enforcement.

[09:10:07]

So, good job for our law enforcement in taking him down before he was able to do that. And, again, Dana, let's look at why he was there in the first place. Was he simply walking by and just happened to walk into a law enforcement situation and try to direct traffic and stand in the middle of the road and then assault, delay and obstruct law enforcement?

Or was he there for a reason? Did he fall victim to that violent and heated rhetoric by a Mayor Frey, a Governor Walz? Look, Dana, they're trying to portray Border Patrol agents and ICE agents as Gestapo, Nazi and many other words.

Did this individual fall victim, as many others have, to that type of heated rhetoric?

BASH: OK, I want to stay focused on this incident right now, because what you were saying is that he went there to try to stop this law enforcement operation.

All of the video that we have seen shows him documenting it with his cell phone, which is a lawful thing to do. And the only time he seemed to interact with law enforcement is when they went after him when he was trying to help an individual who law enforcement pushed down.

So where do you have the evidence to show that he was trying to impede that law enforcement operation?

BOVINO: Sure.

Dana, first he was there in the scene. He was in the scene actively impeding and assaulting law enforcement to the point...

BASH: But that's not illegal.

BOVINO: And here's a -- Dana...

BASH: He wasn't impeding it. He was filming it, which is a legal thing to do in the United States of America.

BOVINO: Dana, let's don't freeze-frame adjudicate this now. He was there for a reason. And that reason was to impede law enforcement, to the point...

BASH: What evidence do you have of that?

BOVINO: And here's a -- and here -- and here's a good point, Dana, is the fact that de-escalation techniques were utilized during this action.

Those de-escalation techniques, whether it was physically trying to remove them from that law enforcement scene, that active law enforcement scene, in which law enforcement were going after a violent illegal alien, or the use of pepper spray, which is another de- escalation technique.

Those techniques did not work. Officers always try to use the minimum amount of force necessary to either an effect on arrest, which in this case was more than likely 18-USC-111 assault on a federal officer or to impede, delay, obstruct.

BASH: Where did he assault -- where did he assault the federal officer in any of the video that you have seen? Because it looked -- it looked to us from every angle, sir, that he was approached by them when he was helping another individual who was pushed down. What evidence do you have that he was assaulting any law enforcement?

BOVINO: Dana, we don't need a suspect's help in an active law enforcement scene. We don't need his help. We didn't ask his help.

BASH: When you say suspect, what is he suspected of?

BOVINO: That's an active law enforcement scene. He knew that was an active law enforcement scene, especially when the officers approached him and it was very evident he did not need to be where he was.

BASH: So when somebody...

BOVINO: And he decided on his own to stay there.

BASH: So, when somebody is pushed down and a person's instinct is to help that person, when somebody is pushed down by law enforcement, you're saying that you just stand back and let law enforcement do what they're doing? Is that really human nature?

BOVINO: You know, Dana, every situation is different. What our officers are faced with here in Minneapolis are chaotic, very difficult and violent situations in which individuals -- and this suspect is not the only one to bring a loaded weapon to a riot.

The situations are chaotic and ever-changing. Follow directions for law enforcement. Don't inject yourself knowingly beforehand into a law enforcement situation.

BASH: With respect, it feels as though in some ways you're blaming the victim here.

BOVINO: The victims -- the victims are the Border Patrol agents. I'm not blaming the Border Patrol agents. The victim are the Border Patrol agents. The suspect put himself in that situation. The victims are the Border Patrol agents there.

BASH: I want to go back to the gun, sir, because I think this is really, really critical. You can see an agent -- and I just want to go to, let's see here, video five. You can see a screenshot of an agent in a green jacket approach

Pretti, and then he appeared to take a gun away. When the agent took the gun away, which seems as though it was Pretti's gun, that happened before Pretti was shot.

Why was an unarmed man shot multiple times by law enforcement, by your Border Patrol agents?

BOVINO: Dana, you don't know he was unarmed. I don't know he was unarmed. That's freeze-frame adjudication of a crime scene via a photo.

[09:15:03]

That's why we have investigators. That's why we have an investigation that is going to answer those questions. How many shots were fired? Who fired shots? Where was the guns? Where were the guns located? All those questions are going to be answered in the investigation.

BASH: Sir, I just want -- I think you can see the screen. We're -- we're...

BOVINO: Us, we're not going to adjudicate that here on TV in one freeze-frame there.

BASH: OK. It's not a freeze-frame. We're show -- we have -- we're showing a video of one of your agents taking the gun away. And that happened before Pretti was shot.

BOVINO: We don't know that agent was taking any gun away. That could have been the agent's, because we don't know that. The facts are going to come to light as to what exactly happened with an investigation.

BASH: So you're disputing the video that that's what happened?

BOVINO: That's why we investigate.

BASH: Well, with respect, you say that's why we investigate. But you're also drawing other conclusions that sort of fly in the face of waiting for an investigation.

I just want to also go back to what I was asking about regard to what Secretary Noem said, that he was brandishing a gun. At any point, do you have any evidence that -- yes, he might -- he had a gun on his person. Was he brandishing it? Was he a threat because he had a gun in his hand that put law enforcement in danger?

BOVINO: Dana, we heard the law enforcement officer say, "Gun, gun, gun." So, at some point, they knew there was a gun. So, again, that is going to be part of that investigation as to what was happening on the ground there between those victims, the Border Patrol agent victims, and the suspect.

BASH: Both the police chief in Minneapolis, O'Hara, and Governor Walz say Pretti was legally licensed to carry a concealed weapon. So are you saying it's not OK for him to exercise his Second Amendment

right, not to mention his First Amendment right to be there in the first place, but his Second Amendment right to carry a gun? And, if you do, you can be shot by federal law enforcement.

BOVINO: No, I didn't say that, Dana. I never said that.

What I'm saying is, we respect that Second Amendment right, but those rights don't -- those rights don't count when you riot and assault, delay, obstruct, and impede law enforcement officers, and most especially when you mean to do that beforehand.

BASH: How do you know that?

BOVINO: When you mean to do that -- when you mean to do that beforehand, when you show up to an active crime scene, don't leave the crime scene and you're armed, then you have got -- the decision-making process for that individual doesn't seem to be very good.

BASH: So...

BOVINO: Now, back to the Second Amendment, what you're saying about the Second Amendment is peacefully protesting with firearms, absolutely. I have done that myself and fully support that, but not when you perpetrate violence, obstruct, delay, or obfuscate Border Patrol in the performance of their duties in an active crime scene.

BASH: There's no evidence that he was perpetrating violence.

And there's no evidence, unless you have it -- and we'd love to see it if there is -- that he was intending to massacre law enforcement, other than the fact that he was there and he had a gun lawfully.

BOVINO: No, he meant to be there beforehand. Again, again, Dana, he meant -- he came there beforehand for a reason.

BASH: How do you know that? How do you know that?

BOVINO: For -- because he was there, because he was there. It's very evident.

BASH: But all he was doing was filming and documenting it, which is legal. He was carrying a gun, which in Minneapolis is legal.

BOVINO: I didn't say it wasn't. And I didn't say it wasn't legal.

BASH: So then what did he do that was illegal?

BOVINO: But he cannot assault federal law enforcement when he does that. That's an active law enforcement crime scene that he decided to enter into.

BASH: Where do you see in the video that he was assault -- where do you see in the video that he was assaulting law enforcement?

Because, from everything we have seen, law enforcement was assaulting him when he was there trying to help another individual.

BOVINO: Dana, law enforcement doesn't assault anyone. Follow directions of law enforcement. Follow directions of law enforcement in an active crime scene.

It was very evident he didn't want to do that. Very evident that the other individuals didn't want to do that. And it's too bad the consequences had to be paid...

BASH: Yes.

BOVINO: ... because he injected himself into that crime scene.

I can't say that enough. He made the decision to go there.

BASH: I want to...

BOVINO: We didn't make the decision to talk to him. We didn't even know that individual was in existence...

BASH: I want to go back to...

BOVINO: ... until he came into that crime scene.

BASH: I want to go back to video number one, because you keep saying that he injected himself into the crime scene. He was a guy on a street filming an operation. He wasn't -- he was far away. He wasn't on the crime scene.

And what I want you to see again is that law enforcement appears, by the video we have, to be approaching him and the person who is next to him, not the other way around. And so what I want to know is, what evidence do you have that he went after law enforcement?

[09:20:02]

BOVINO: Sure.

The fact that he was standing in the middle of the road, there was interaction between him, the bystanders and law enforcement, and, again, follow directions of law enforcement. He doesn't need to be in the middle of a crime scene.

Dana, I don't think you would want to be in the middle of a crime scene or you would want civilians in the middle of a crime scene injecting themselves into something that is none of their business at all.

BASH: Can you also just answer the question about the gun? Because, again, do you have any evidence that he was brandishing his weapon? Did he ever have his hand on the weapon?

BOVINO: Yes, again, the officers on the ground, in that melee, we hear "Gun, gun, gun."

So that gun at some point became visible to officers. BASH: But it could it have been because they were -- they were --

they had him on the ground and maybe his shirt came up and they saw that it was on him? That doesn't mean that he was...

BOVINO: Pure speculation. And that is why we have an investigation.

BASH: But -- fine. I...

BOVINO: That is what we are investigating.

BASH: I think...

BOVINO: You're not going to know that now and I'm not going to know that.

BASH: I think an investigation is great. But the homeland security secretary said he was brandishing a weapon. Do you have evidence that we haven't seen that he was brandishing a weapon?

BOVINO: He was -- he brought a semiautomatic weapon to a riot, assaulted federal officers, and at some point they saw that weapon. So I do believe the secretary is 100 percent spot on in what she said.

BASH: Seeing a weapon...

BOVINO: Why would you bring a weapon and assault a federal officer if you did not have intent to harm...

BASH: OK.

BOVINO: ... or delay or obstruct that federal officer with a weapon?

BASH: You keep saying that he assaulted a federal officer. But, again, we have not seen evidence that that happened. It looked like he was on the defense.

And, again, he had a gun legally. It just -- it's -- it sort of feels like we're in the Upside Down, where we have law enforcement and conservatives, who are very pro-Second Amendment, saying the problem was that he had a gun legally.

BOVINO: No, the problem is, as I said several times now, is, he injected himself, he put himself where he did not need to be. He put himself in and...

BASH: Can I...

BOVINO: ... put law enforcement officers in jeopardy through his actions. These were his actions, not law enforcement officers' action.

We had to react to an individual that came there for a specific reason. And, again, what that reason is, we're going to find more out about that in the coming days. I will be interested to see what his reason for being there...

BASH: What... BOVINO: ... while Border Patrol agents were arresting a violent criminal illegally and doing their lawful ethical and moral duties in Minneapolis. That's the question.

BASH: Well, but the question is also, why is an American citizen now dead for the second time who was there to document in this case and clearly to be there as a bystander, which is his First Amendment right?

BOVINO: It's not clear. He wasn't there to clearly document anything.

Don't socially engineer the topic, Dana. He was not there to document.

BASH: Appeared to be. That's fair. Appeared to be.

BOVINO: He came there for a reason. And he obfuscated and delayed officers there on the scene.

BASH: I want to ask...

BOVINO: That's pretty evident to me.

BASH: I want to ask you about your agents. You said that this was a highly trained agent who had been serving on Border Patrol for eight years.

What was he trained for? Because these are your Border Patrol agents and they're now in the interior of the country in American cities. Was he trained in urban policing?

BOVINO: Yes, all of our Border Patrol agents are trained in all -- for all types of environments, including urban policing.

This particular Border Patrol agent had eight years with some specific skill sets there with both firearms and less lethal munitions. Also, let's take a look at the training and the environments that Border Patrol agents operate in. We operate in places like San Diego, California, Tucson, Arizona, New Orleans.

All those have Border Patrol sectors, Detroit, Michigan. We have got Border Patrol sectors in Buffalo. So this myth -- and I saw this just last night on CNN -- this myth that Border Patrol agents don't work in urban areas is just that. It's a myth.

We're well-adept at urban areas conducting that Title 8 immigration enforcement wherever we go.

BASH: And...

BOVINO: It doesn't matter if it's a desert or an urban environment. We're very well-adept at doing that.

BASH: Is the agent or agents -- is it your understanding that more than one agent fired a weapon at Alex Pretti?

BOVINO: Again, that's going to be part of the investigation. BASH: OK. Is...

BOVINO: I'm not going to speculate on how many shots or who shot or that type of thing, because I don't know.

[09:25:00]

BASH: OK. Is it -- is -- are the agents who were involved still on the job?

BOVINO: Yes.

They're -- these Border Patrol agents are going to more than likely be on administrative duty, but they will remain Border Patrol agents, yes.

BASH: What does that mean? What does that mean? So they will be off the streets for a bit?

BOVINO: That's -- in Minneapolis, they will, but only in Minneapolis here. They will be at a different location.

BASH: OK.

And before I let you go, I just want to button up one point that you were making about what Alex Pretti was doing there. Do you accept that it is the law that an individual has a right to film what law enforcement is doing?

BOVINO: I believe that all citizens of the United States have those First and Fourth Amendment rights, as long as they do so peacefully and don't delay, obstruct, or assault anyone in doing that. And that's the issue here because he was not peacefully doing anything.

BASH: All right.

And just for the record -- and we have seen this video multiple times from multiple angles -- there is no evidence that he was doing anything other than being peaceful until the altercation began.

Again, I look forward to seeing the other evidence in the investigation that you have, because we do want to get to the bottom of this and do want to get all of the facts as they actually happened.

Chief Bovino, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you being here and answering questions.

BOVINO: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: And you just heard from, as you saw, the Department of Homeland Security, the chief of the Border Patrol, Dan Bo -- excuse me -- Greg Bovino.

Just amazing watching this guy blatantly lie, repeatedly, in direct contradiction of the video played before his eyes.

I'm beginning to think he not only needs to be fired, but maybe go to prison too. 

The guy is evil, but that is not a crime.   The guy is blatantly lying, but that is not a crime.   So his criminal acts would be related to what he is telling his staff to do and what level of cover-up is taking place.   None of that is currently known.

I'm pretty sure he has committed crimes, but the experts can figure that out. 

I don't know about that because there has been no conclusion to an investigation, but the question remains.....why would someone bring a loaded gun with 2 full clips to a "protest"?

Rightists take guns to McDonalds all the time....why?

I don't leave my home without my 9mm, now that a lawless fascist regime has taken over, and I've resigned myself to the concept that I may not live thru an encounter with a trump stooge violating my constitutional rights.

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Edit- apparently, the link doesn't work.  I'm sure this footage will be available sometime today.

The video you linked didnt work for me Sandy. 

Ok.  It was video taken by the woman in the pink coat.  It shows ICE agents pushing a woman to the ground.  The victim tries to help her, but agents pulled him away, pepper spraying him and another person.  Agents got him on the ground and shot him.  I saw no gun in his hand.

Apparently, the woman who recorded is now in ICE custody.

I think I saw that video a little while ago. The way you describe it is correct. 

"Apparently, the woman who recorded is now in ICE custody."

Anyone want to lay odds that the recording will be deleted?

It's too late to delete it.  It's been shared all over the internet.

Good. 

the dead guy

Another video.  Nothing definitive that I can see but did someone yell "gun"?

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Yep, that's what I hear. Now one is left to wonder if it's the same individual sprinting away from the scene with the weapon apparently. I didn't hear a "cleared" proclamation. Did you?

No but I do hear some internet detectives declaring it was the man that got shot gun

Mmmm, you brought it up and I agree someone declares "gun"...

Sorry, my comment had more to do with no one declaring "clear" although some are sure the person shot had no gun at the time. 

HELLO AMERICANS.  What's the use of your Second Amendment if you only pay lip service to it and don't use it when it's SO OBVIOUSLY NECESSARY for you to USE IT.  Isn't what's happening the reason it exists?  Your ROGUE government is trying to destroy you and what you are SUPPOSED to be.

That should get a few threats posted at me.

Surely you're not trying to incite insurrection?...

Proportional force... 

www.mediaite.com /opinion/the-federal-government-is-gaslighting-the-public-about-ice-killing-of-alex-pretti/

The Federal Government Is Gaslighting the Public About ICE Killing Alex Pretti

Colby Hall 5-6 minutes   1/24/2026

And the inmates running the insane asylum think both these recent murders of American citizens were Pretti Good. Truly mind boggling and sad for America.

Pretti Good

Watch that become a running joke among the goon squad brownshirts.

But yet your side is the only one to use it as a joke.

I never would have thought of it.  I guess I have more couth.

I guess I have more couth.

Ah yes, how very cultured and well-mannered it is to justify cold blooded murder of your fellow American citizens.

Ah yes, how very cultured and well-mannered it is to justify cold blooded murder of your fellow American citizens.

Where has it been attempted to be justified?

Where has it been attempted to be justified?

Noem, Patel, Trump, Miller, FoxNews, The list goes on. 

Here are a couple of easy questions for our "friends" on the left here.

1. Would this amount of ICE agent be needed in Minnesota if Walz and Frey allowed detainers to be carried out in jails and prisons, and cooperate with the feds on the removal of illegal criminals.?

2. Why is it only Minnesota that is seeing this type of violence and not other states in cities around the country where ICE is known to be engaging in operations?

If anyone needs assistance with answering these questions, let me know and I can help. 

the blue flag is the Minnesota state flag by the way