The Christian right hijacks America's 250th
By: Amanda Marcotte
geezus really doesn't give a fuck about fake xtians, and the 10 commandments protects them about as much as they adhere to them ...
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
After Donald Trump blasphemed the Christian faith by posting what any fool could see was an artificial intelligence-generated illustration of himself as Jesus Christ, many members of the Beltway chattering class hoped the religious right would finally quit the president. The answer, of course, was a robust "heck no," and this weekend, the White House is offering a reminder why.
Trump is devoted to a blasphemy that is far more important to them: rewriting history to push the false claim that the United States was founded as a Christian nation.
On Sunday, May 17, the White House will kick off the celebrations of the nation's 250th anniversary with an alarming event: Rededicate 250: A National Jubilee of Prayer, Praise & Thanksgiving, an all-day prayer festival featuring administration officials including Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, as well as House Speaker Mike Johnson.
The founders would not doubt be appalled, as there is nothing to rededicate; they explicitly wrote the Constitution to reflect their belief that the U.S. is a secular nation. But Trump's second term has been dominated by a single-minded determination to erase real history and replace it with self-flattering fantasies of the MAGA movement. As Jason Kyle Howard recently wrote in Salon, Trump's efforts to inflict his grotesque architectural tastes on the nation's capital cannot be separated from the administration's schemes "to undermine the living history of Black and brown Americans, women and the LGBTQ+ community, and to paper over the legacy of the post-World War II liberal order."
Trump's plans of erasure fit in well with the Christian right's efforts, stretching back decades, to replace real history with a false, sanitized tale of an America founded not to be a secular democracy but something closer to a right-wing Christian theocracy. This includes making phony claims that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington didn't really mean what they clearly did with their talk of "freedom of religion" and "separation of church and state." The decision to kick off months devoted to celebrating the nation's semiquincentennial sends a blatant message of support for this alternate reality in which the nation's founders were all right-wing Christians who wanted a nation ruled not by reason and the rule of law, but by a fundamentalist interpretation of scripture.
The scary thing is that, on its surface, Sunday's event will likely read as innocuous when compared to the myriad of other travesties committed daily by the Trump administration against our nation's laws and traditions. Based on Rededicate 250's marketing, most of the program looks likely to avoid overtly political rhetoric in favor of generic prayers calling on God to bless the country. The event's organizers have even included a smattering of token Catholics and one rabbi as speakers. The whole thing feels designed to seem inoffensive — and to preemptively paint any progressives arguing that the Constitution clearly forbids government establishment of religion as hysterical.
Rededicate 250 is not just about imposing a Christian identity on the United States; it promotes something more specific — an evangelical, far-right flavor of the faith.
The speaker list, though, reveals what's really going on. Rededicate 250 is not just about imposing a Christian identity on the United States; it promotes something more specific — an evangelical, far-right flavor of the faith. According to Pew Research, only 23% of Americans are evangelical Christians, but the event's program implies that the only truly legitimate Americans are the ones who spend their weekends waving their hands to ear-splitting worship music inside a stadium-sized megachurch. Worse, most of the religious leaders speaking at this event are committed to pushing a political agenda opposed to the basic rights and freedoms of everyone outside their right-wing tribe.
Franklin Graham, who has built his entire career piggybacking on the fame of his famous father, the late evangelist Billy Graham, was rewarded with a plum spot on Sunday's roster. And no wonder. After Trump posted the picture of himself looking uncannily like Jesus, Graham defended him on social media: "I do not believe President Trump would knowingly depict himself as Jesus Christ."
Why Graham is willing to gaslight his followers like this isn't a mystery. At the most recent Conservative Political Action Conference, he argued that Trump is singularly equipped to fight the "godless anti-American agenda," which he described as legal abortion, "woke culture, critical race theory [and] transgender ideology." He even invoked a bizarre conspiracy theory accusing progressives of wanting to rename Christmas to hide the word "Christ."
Also on the program is Dr. Robert Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Dallas, which boasts "a new 178,000-square-foot Worship Center and a three-story structure with a 3,000-seat sanctuary with a full production and broadcast studio." From his pulpit there, Jeffress teaches that women should submit to their husbands because the Bible says a woman is "man's helper," provided by God to support a man in his life's purpose. He is also famous for his 2008 "Gay Is Not Okay" sermon, in which he condemned "their filthy behavior that explains why they are so much more prone to disease." Three years later, Jeffress declared that Catholicism was a "counterfeit religion" inspired by "the genius of Satan." (It's unsurprising, then, that Jeffress told Fox News on Saturday that "President Trump has a better understanding of what the Bible teaches than the Pope" — a message that Trump, who keeps insulting Pope Leo XIV, would surely enjoy.
Then there's Paula White, a charismatic preacher who has long been close to Trump. The thrice-married evangelist opposes same-sex marriage and has equated the Black Lives Matter movement with the Ku Klux Klan. While blamed "demonic confederacies" for the president's 2020 election loss and spoke at his Jan. 6 rally, praying that the crowd's adversaries "be overturned right now in the name of Jesus." More recently, days before Trump compared himself to Jesus, White herself did so at an Easter luncheon, equating the president's various criminal trials with Christ's crucifixion. The parallel echoed a recently resurfaced video from 2019 in which she said, "To say no to President Trump would be saying no to God." White is fond of grandstanding in this manner, claiming, "When I walk on White House grounds, God walks on White House grounds," and "where I stand is holy."
The Christian commentator and Trump superfan Eric Metaxes is another prominent speaker; he has repeated variations of the argument "There is no America, period, without Christian faith." On a recent episode of his self-titled podcast, he and his guest James Howard Kunstler argued that Trump should outlaw the Democratic Party. Metaxes has called anti-Immigration and Customs Enforcement protesters "a communist insurgency" and compared Alex Pretti, who was shot while protesting Trump's mass deportation campaign, to Hamas. After the president lost in 2020, Metaxes went on Charlie Kirk's show and argued, "We need to fight to the death, to the last drop of blood, because it's worth it."
There are many more: the minister who rose to fame by telling his congregation to refuse Covid-19 vaccinations, another who suggested Christians may be banned from speaking if Joe Biden won in 2020, one who vowed to overturn the Supreme Court's decision legalizing same-sex marriage. Hating LGBTQ people is a common theme among the invited speakers. And of course, so many of them eagerly preach that it's a wife's duty to submit to her husband.
That's why the Rededicate 250 event is so insidious — even if the speakers behave themselves and don't say anything too controversial on stage. By giving far-right radicals the main stage at an event that's supposed to be celebrating America's birthday, the event's organizers — with the cooperation of the Trump administration — are normalizing and mainstreaming their anti-democracy views. It sends a message that the government that's supposed to be of, by and for the people actually agrees with the speakers that huge swaths of Americans — including women, immigrants, LGBTQ people and advocates for racial equality — do not count as full citizens.
This is why the founders were wise to insist on creating the United States as a secular nation. When the government gets into promoting religion, it cannot help but separate people into groups who are seen as more or less worthy of the status of citizen. Even if Rededicate 250 somehow manages to avoid presenting outright hate on stage, promoting voices like these sends a message loud and clear: The rest of you don't matter.
Trolling, taunting, spamming, and off topic comments may be removed at the discretion of group mods. NT members that are known plagiarists, repeat comments, or continue to disrupt/deflect the conversation risk having all of their comments deleted. Please remember to quote the person(s) to whom you are replying to preserve continuity of this seed. Any use of the phrase "Trump Derangement Syndrome" or the TDS acronym in a comment will be deleted. Any use of the term "Brandon", "Traitor Joe", or any variations thereof, when referring to President Biden, will be deleted. Right wing trolls can expect to have their irrelevant questions and comments deleted. Posting debunked lies will be subject to deletion. Use of the terms "leftist" or "lefty" will also be subject to deletion. ©
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
Tags
Who is online
86 visitors
maybe xtian nationalism could benefit from dozens of new martyrs this summer to help promote their theocratic movement ...
Donald Trump again using them just as he uses anyone gullible enuff to swallow the stuff, ole disruption and maximum corruption can out spit with or without fluff, cause a nother nuttier flufanother flow of sin from Trumps' within e go, to Hell not soon enough for most of US you know he doesn't, know no thing about religion accept for how exceptionally well it allows aloud for cult following sale ore swallowing , till blind is the loyalty in the made up whirled spun till the come, hither and don't dither, cause the snake oiled does often slither fore sales to have the blind buy into the sunglasses that allow they to see best the depths they do wander till under water r those baptized with the correct bat sized to beat the lies into the unwise and all in the name of peep holes who can't seem to find faith via the peep hole, asz there is glory , on only one side of that whole thing is so an anti US thing, forefathers designed something knot tied to the latest whim, or blasphemy Don AI workin out in his gym amazium are the thoughts so damn lazy buy them, hooker, and allow them to be Catphished buy the grabber of pussy, cause the flockerz are red n ready too meat, asz the vegans gather inn the street with know name, cause DC has turned off the AC ramp and attempting(De Jesus Christ) to drive US onto the Highway to Hell, and as they can now hear the ringing of Hells Bells off in the distance, they increase the persistence to just go and violate any and all of that which our forefathers had envisioned, as this bS they would surely hate, but Kult members tend to fall into the same phaults, annd when a sault does work well, make em' think unless they follow, to HELL they will go, with they banking on the turns the A whole weigh, sinkin dis once great nation, into an extremely large pothole of devastation, and it is quite apparent, HELL will be their destination for shore asz it a piers, cause behind the curtains, the carpets are wall to wall and the flockers still smillin ear to ears, asz they get bent over like Rover, yet ALL of US weren't meant to be the Queers like the Men rovering round Mars, and the new Women from Venus with a penis, that pisses off those xtians something a fierce, especially when in their head(s), there appears to be a Pierce, yet won needs a brown Hawkeye, to see the BJ Honeycut 'right' from the religious heart, cause the manipulation of minds has always been their objective, ;right; from their start
to finish US as oui' know, and boy, or girl, it sure dew blow
Allowing people like White, Graham, Metaxas, and Jeffress to take part in ceremonies celebrating the 250th birthday of the US is pure insanity.
they are all a lot easier to get closer to than any of the trump administration stooges ...
Fuck you, Asshole. Tell that to James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers. I would like to think they would kick your ass into the harbor
I'm looking forward to some very assertive deprogramming of maga thumpers that think a national religion, aka church of england 2.0, will go over without extreme bloodshed on their part, especially this year, and especially on sundays ..
Church of England? Nope. That church is Catholic-lite. They want a church more like the Pentecostals where women are submissive and wear awful clothes. Or the Church of Christ where there is no music during their services.
a national religion, it was a revolutionary war reference, along with taxation without representation. the proponents of either got a well deserved lead ball, hightailed it to canada, or a boat trip back to england ...
They want a Church like the one Hegseth is a member of that believes, among other things, women and nonbelievers should not have the right to vote.
Ok, I get it.
But these pustules on the ass of humanity would want nothing to do with a Catholic-lite church. They don't want compassion or mercy to be shown on those that trespass against them. They just want to take those trespassers and torture them until they beg for death
Yes! That is exactly what I'm talking about! Did Margaret Atwood base Gilead on this church? What is it again Reformed Assholes Who Hate Women?
in the near future, I plan on wearing out the phrase "oops, looks like geezus didn't save him ..."
patriotic americans that defend the constitution don't vote for christo-fascists, they shoot at them ...
Yes, Donald Trump (and minions) chummed the waters with Rededicate 250 and Democrats are now taking the bait -- hook, line, and sinker.
What a steaming pile of 'culture war' BS. What better way to motivate discouraged Republicans to turn out and vote? Donald Trump wants Democrats to be so frickin' stupid to start a 'culture war' and trigger the Republican base.
Forget about the wars. Forget about the economy. Forget about the corruption. Forget about the damaged reputation among allies. Democrats are going to dox preachers for their hidden racism, bigotry, and moral hypocracy. Democrats are going to die on the hill of 'culture war' opposition to fundamentalist Christianity. That's the winning ticket for 2026.
Why do Democrats keep falling for this shit?
I would agree with the Trump motivation, as not much can rally one like something they believe so strongly in, like say religion, but I do not feel that pointing out how our country was designed to separate church and to state it, should not incite the mindless mob, but the 47 slob, in no false flag waves in any and all direction, to promote a GOP election, that should be just another of many a dissection, cause $5 agallon gas and the increase costs of EVERYTHING are more believable to most than religion and god, and even if it's not, i believe it would be odd
... and that separation just might run right between the theocrats eyes.
oh look, somebody thinks it's the democrats fault that maga is moving towards a fake xtian theocracy ...
I see zero evidence that Democrats are forgetting about any of that. People are capable of being aware of more than one thing at a time. This rededication bullshit is just another thing on the pile, and I see no reason that it shouldn’t get some attention, as well.
Do Democrats actually want to motivate discouraged Republicans to turn out and vote? If that is what Democrats want then continue highlighting 'culture war' BS.
You can bet your neighbor's ass that Donald Trump will take advantage of Democrats whining over 'culture war' BS to throw red meat to his base and distract from wars, tariffs, weakened alliances, corruption, and inflation. Trump's base won't need to defend a record; they'll be attacking Democrats on 'culture war' issues. Everybody and their brother should know by now that 'culture war' issues unify Republicans.
If these things are really, really important to Democrats then wait till they win the goddammed election.
... some of us have been fighting christo-fascist conservatives at the ballot box for 50+ years, save the johnny come lately bullshit political advice for somebody else that was duped by trump 3 times and has just realized their voting errors. short of dying, there's no fucking way the fetid bag of shit in the oval office can even begin to fix in 6 months all the damage he has caused this country in the last 2.5 years ...
A 50+ year fight is a quagmire. A forever war. A prolonged excuse to hate.
So why motivate Trump's base of support to turn out and vote against the socialist, commie, freeloading, far-left, DEI woke, Amurica-haters?
Right now it appears Republicans are discouraged. 36 Republicans choosing to not seek reelection doesn't seem like an endorsement of a record to run on. So what are Democrats going to do? Piss off those discouraged Republicans so they have a reason to fight back? How stupid can Democrats become? We have 169 days to find out.
democrats don't need to do anything but show up to vote. DC's golden sphincter in the white house is writing and filming their campaign ads for the midterms and erodes his own support with every new tweet, pardon, grift and scandal.
They are important. These far right religious circle jerks turn into actual public policy. That's not theory. It's already happening.
Republicans don't bitch about culture wars?????
Good gawd, Man....they are doing everything in their power to turn back gay marriage, and LGBTQ+ rights. They're already overturned Roe vs Wade
I really miss fucking over all the door to door thumpers at my old condo complex before covid ...
Yes they do. You know why? It's easy red meat. 'Culture war' politics doesn't need to be informed and fits every occasion.
Climate change? Gay marriage? Abortion? The latest advertisement for vaginal odor control? 'Culture war' fights don't require any knowledge, thought, or intellect from either side. All that's necessary is to pick a side and hate the other side.
'Culture war' fights are all about tyranny. It's about which side can dominate the other and dictate what is acceptable in society based on 'winning'. There's no need for competent officials. There's no need to govern.
All that's needed for 'culture war' politics is a 'Donald Trump' personality.
I'm looking forward to witnessing the christo-fascists that put trump in office discover the new reverse prosperity gospel that will be applied to them and their unamerican madrasas after their maga savior starts stinking up a box underground. whatever the trump family walks out the door with, thumpers will owe america 10x that, and churches will happily pay a new enhanced religious business tax, to save their hypocritical asses.
From the article:
This is every bit as wrong as what the author claims Christian Nationalists are claiming and for the exact same reason the author claims the Christian Nationalists are wrong. The founders did not believe that the U.S. was a secular nation. They believed the government was a secular institution. There's a difference. To declare that the Constitution mandates a secular society is exactly the same sort of thing as saying it mandates a religious society. It is imposing a particular view upon what is supposed to be a free society.
The actual truth is that the founders wanted a government that did not hinder people from living according to their conscience, and from that, the nation would be what it would be. They saw the government as protecting that idea, not deciding what the nation would be.
There is nothing wrong, Constitutionally, with the Rededicate 250 event. It violates nothing. And they have the right to express their faith and talk about what they hope for the country going forward, just as AOC, Mamdani and, well, anyone has.
To reiterate the point, the founders did not intend a secular nation. They did not intend a religious nation. They intended a secular government and that's all. Nor does my saying this mean I support some or all of what went on at this event. I personally find some of the participants and speakers sus and, so, I'm not saying any of this as a defense of whatever their positions are.
The founders clearly desired to create a nation that was different from England, one where there was no State sanctioned or crown sanctioned religion. They crafted the constitution to create a secular "institution" (doesn't matter what you call it, let's not play that stupid game of semantics) that allowed everyone to practice their religion, but that meant denying ALL religion the right to 'establish' their religion as the faith of the nation with privilege and power as the Catholic Church and then Protestant Churches had done throughout Europe over the preceding several hundred years. Our founders wanted to keep that from ever happening here and thus they gave religions the right to practice their faith but denied them the right to deny other faiths the same which is what 'establishing' would amount to, making all other faiths secondary to one superior nation sanctioned brand of religion.
Were those of other faiths being given the SAME invitations and platform to speak at the Whitehouse event? Were some atheists also invited to share their thoughts? Of course not, because this administration caters to rightwing Christian nationalists and their further right Christo-fascist fellows. And there they all are kneeling before a convicted felon and accused pedophile waiting for their new Messiahs blessing. This whole scene could not be more disgusting, and if a person really thinks the Jesus described in the bible would be proud of this event or of any of these people, they should re-read the Gospels and if that doesn't help, perhaps an LSD high colonic to reset their clearly deficient brain.
How is this different than what I said? Everything you said in this paragraph is why they created a secular government. Not a secular nation. So, are you agreeing with me or not agreeing with me? I can't tell.
Yes, it very much does matter. Creating a government that was intended to be secular in nature, not religious, is the basis of separating the sphere of government from the sphere of religion. That is hardly a "stupid game of semantics."
No. There is no requirement for them to do so.
I'm saying there is no real difference between a 'secular nation' and a 'secular government', that's just a game of semantics. While you can parse some difference saying the 'nation' is the people, but even there we have 'people' from every religion and none in this 'nation' so to try and claim they are one thing or another as a 'nation' is ludicrous. Our 'nation' is a secular one in that we are not based on any one particular religion.
By focusing on one religious belief and ignoring all others, this is using government resources to promote one religious belief over all others. That is NOT the intent of the CotUS.
Our 250th celebration should be about our history and not used as an opportunity to promote a particular religious belief.
It is if one believes that the CotUS was divinely inspired...
I think it is the desire to assert (correctly) that Christianity is the predominant belief in the USA. But then to take that fact and deem ours to be a 'Christian nation'. Once that is established, the argument attempts to sanction promoting Christianity using government resources.
What's the problem with that? Judeo-Christian morality was the working foundation for the European Age of Enlightenment. The Enlightenment argued for the divinity of all men (humans) to overthrow the idea of divine superiority.
The America ideal that 'all men are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights' is a declaration of the divinity of man. That ideal does not repudiate God; it repudiates the idea that God only favors superior man.
The 1st amendment separates the state and church. It does not separate government from Judeo-Christian morality that was the foundation for Enlightenment. The 1st amendment does not diminish the divinity of man according to Christian doctrine.
Some of us don't live by Christian doctrine, Nerm.
Please don't bother responding
But I have to respond because you have created a red herring. I never said anything about Christian doctrine. That's something you injected.
Didn't mention Christian doctrine? Then what's this?
go ahead have the last word I know you need to
The problem is using government resources and venues to promote a particular religious belief.
As opposed to what? Government has been misused to promote particular immoral beliefs. Government has been used to promote particular decadent beliefs. Government has been used to promote vices.
How is using government to attack religion any different than using government to promote religion?
While I can accept that many Americans have based their perception of morality on Judeo-Christian values, that does not mean that gives those working in the government the right of "focusing on one religious belief and ignoring all others" and "using government resources to promote one religious belief over all others". How do you not see a problem with that?
You sort of lost me on this one. What exactly are you trying to say? While I can accept that our founders believed that 'all men are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights', nowhere in the constitution or the declaration of independence do they define that creator. I believe that was intentional and they were very aware that they were creating a government that would NOT "focus on one religious belief while ignoring all others" or "use government resources to promote one religious belief over all others".
I'm pretty sure man is not divine. Not by the way some people act
Well, there is a man who created a divide and people worship him, does that count?
What's really sick is how many people see nothing wrong with this. They've been raised to believe as faithful gullible cattle and now, they're getting harvested.
But it does provide the government the authority to focus on one code of morality while rejecting all other codes of morality. The government cannot impose a church upon people. But the government does have the authority to recognize that there is a God, that God is the source of morality and divinity of people.
The foundational morality of the United States was not Pagan, Buddhist, Islamic, Satanic, or Secular. Attempting to impose some other morality onto the United States under the guise of 'secularism' really is a problem.
The United States does not have a King and does not have a Pope. Is that blunt enough?
But the founders did recognize and acknowledge that there is a creator. And that creator is the source of human rights and morality. The United States was founded on recognition of a creator and that the authority of that creator is above the authority of people.
Having recognized a creator and the authority of that creator, the founders created a government that prohibited divine right to assume the authority of a creator to govern. Only God has the power and authority to be God. That's what the separation of church and state means.
Trump put up a golden statue of himself ! What else is there to say?
How many statues did he build to his father, you know the one who gave him 400 million dollars.
But it is secular.
Theoretically. But there were a group of far right pastors there saying prayers at the MOMENT the statue was dedicated.
Government using public government resources to promote a particular religion directly violates the first amendment.
The government prohibiting religion in public discourse also directly violates the 1st amendment by infringing upon free speech and infringing upon the independence of religion.
The government is also not allowed to attack or inhibit the role of religion in self determination.
Why? How is a "government recognizing that there is a God" not an establishment of religion in direct contradiction of the constitution? The government should NOT be in the business of codifying ANY belief in an unproven invisible sky daddy. Iran does it, sure, but I don't want America to turn into a Christian version of Iran. It's bad enough as it is with this sick perverted Christo-fascism seething around every corner of our government.
The government recognizing a higher moral authority than itself does not require you or anyone else to practice religion. By the same token you and no one else can take away the role of religion in self determination.
A government that endorses immorality, vice, decadence, and irresponsible self indulgence is a perversion of civilization.
I have not argued that the government should prohibit religion in public discourse. So why are you bringing that up?
Do you acknowledge that the government using public government resources to promote a particular religion directly violates the first amendment?
maga!
As much as you seem to wish I were, based on things you've said to me, I am not a part of such groups. I find that behavior disturbing.
And that's the problem we're having. Everything you say after this is based on it being true. That it is a secular nation when, clearly, it is not. About 69% of the US is affiliated with one religion or another. Add in those who aren't affiliated but still believe in God, that number rises to about 80%. The nation is very far from being secular. In fact, it's quite a religious nation. It's just not imposed.
When the government uses its power and taxpayer dollars to promote a particular religious belief (Christianity), it is violating the secular principles of our Constitution.
A celebration of our 250 years should not presume Christianity alone as the belief system. That is promoting Christianity ... raising it well above all other religious beliefs.
Politicians are free to express their beliefs. But they should not be using government resources and influence to do so. And certainly should not promote a particular religious belief.
Now, on your distinction of secular government vs. secular nation. I agree that the CotUS is focused on secular government and that it does not presume or intend that the nation itself be irreligious. It clearly protects the rights of the people to practice their personal religions (or lack thereof). Don't use that protected right in an attempt to sanction government resources promoting a particular religious belief (Christianity).
What does this have to do with my comment? Did the founders intend the nation to be non-religious, or the government?
I believe my comment is quite clear.
The framers intended the government to be secular and to protect the rights of the nation (the people) to practice their personal religions (or none at all). But not to use the resources of the government to promote a particular religious belief.
you can bet your ass that I'll be doing my part to aggressively dissuade thumpers from blending their fake xtianity bullshit into july 4th patriotism. I've already started by balancing the maga messaging on the alleged politics free community bulletin board in my complex. last week the rededicate 250 notice received an additional message from me before it was taken down. I wrote "drop dead maga!" with a red felt tip pen, as an homage to their maga cult savior.
the constitution is clear concerning religion. I plan on defending it, especially this year ...
Yes, you did. My apologies. I didn't read your whole post before replying to it because it didn't seem to address my point. I never got to the afterthought.
I would, in principle, agree. However, you're stating this in isolation from any real-world application. For instance, what constitutes 'promotion' in the real world? A president saying that he is a Muslim and saying a prayer for the nation on live TV? We both know that many people find that to be promotional. So, what then? Should we have a law that prevents public office holders from saying anything religious or having anything to do with religious events, thereby breaking the first amendment's prohibition against laws respecting religion?
Thing is, like any citizen, members of government should be able to participate in and express their faith. That said, there is a point where it does constitute promotion of a particular religion by government. Did this event cross that line? I do not know. I wasn't there, nor have I seen anything about it, other than this article, which I didn't even bother to read much of, considering the source and the tone of what I'd managed to read.
Since I don't know the specifics, I will instead turn to another way this could be deemed the government promoting religion, especially over others. That would be if other religions, or even some secular/atheistic organization, wanting to hold the same sort of event in the same place and also receive tax dollars in support but is denied. That would be a pretty strong case against the government.
That said, I do not think that, because this was a purely Christian event, it is enough to say, by that alone, it was promotional. Christianity had far more, although not the only, religious influence on this country's development than any other, both good and bad. It was a major part of the history, so it's hardly out of place to celebrate it as a part of our heritage. For Christians, anyway. Are we not part of this country, too?
Lastly, as I already said, I don't know much about what happened Sunday. I know nothing about what was said. I know little about who attended. However, some of the names I find cause for concern. Some of the politicians and what they have said in the past I also am wary of. Because of that, I can't categorically state that some of the politicians did not cross the promotional line. Because I do not know these things for sure one way or another, I won't be participating further in this aspect of the conversation, except possibly to address general topics, like whether taxes are allowed for religious events.
All four of the pastors mentioned in this article have gotten openly involved in political grandstanding. Whatever you think of conservative Catholic clergy they do not make a show of politics . Graham Jr, Metaxas, White and Jeffress have all made highly problematic statements during their careers.
Did you approve of evangelical pastors going to pay homage to Trump when his golden idol statue to himself was dedicated last week? You'd think pastors would be better served tending to their flock.
Did Jesus Christ demand that we love others, unless the are foreign refugees or gay or believe differently or vote differently?
Are we commanded to treat others well, unless they are sinners?
I ask because that seems to be the MAGA cult's interpretations...
As I understand it, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, probably the most prominent Catholic in the US. was there as a speaker.
No.
Please define what the 'MAGA cult' is and who's in it.
Jesus commands us to love everyone, period. Do you interpret that as a command to accept and affirm whatever they do, as well? Is that how you would define love? If so, Jesus apparently fails at loving others, since he rejected practically everything everyone was doing, even though he loved them enough to die for them.
Providing only Christian religious speakers in the celebration of our 250th anniversary. This is not a religious affair so why are any religious speakers present? And, as noted, if by some stretch this is deemed relevant for religious talks, allowing only the Christian voice is promoting Christianity.
Nothing wrong with a politician declaring their religious belief. Or even practicing said belief. But this is quite different from an individual expression.
I have not suggested otherwise.
Of course not. If you acknowledged that this is promoting Christianity (be absolute exclusion of all other religious beliefs) you would have to admit that this violates the 1st amendment. The word 'promotes' is key. Notice how I consistently used that word in my comments. So I fully expected you to come back and claim that this does not promote Christianity. But, ..., it does.
By 'This', I assume you mean the anniversary itself, yes? Why do you say this is not a religious affair? Who decided that? What can you point to in saying it doesn't have a religious aspect or that it shouldn't have one?
As for having only Christian speakers, it was a Christian event; a national day of prayer and worshipping of Jesus Christ. It was not an event that celebrated religion in general. If Muslims wanted to hold a similar event, why would they invite Christian speakers to speak about Christianity?
In what way?
Good to hear.
Agreed. But it would depend on who's doing the excluding. As I understand it, Trump created Task Force 250 for the purpose of coordinating and promoting celebrations of the 250th anniversary of the nation. Freedom 250, the organizer of Rededicate 250, is a non-profit created to work alongside the Task Force. If, say, a Muslim non-profit created to collaborate with Task Force 250 in the same manner but was rejected due to not being Christian, I would say that this would violate the first amendment.
Yes, I know. That's why, in 5.2.5 I said " For instance, what constitutes 'promotion' in the real world " as my first point. We both know that, for some, any mention of religion in the public square is considered promotional. That word is what this conversation revolves around. Everything I'm saying revolves around it.
Um, yeah. It does promote Christianity. But who's doing the promoting? That matters. Rededicate 250 was Freedom 250's baby, not the government's. No more than if a LGTBQ outfit collaborated with Task Force 250 would be the government promoting LGTBQ. Rather, it would be a governmental program giving equal access for the purpose for which the program exists.
Of course, your view is probably something closer to the idea that Freedom 250 is more a vehicle to give legal distance to governmental actors intending to give Christianity supremacy. That may be the case but, how are you going to prove that, legally?
[✘]
It's hilarious that you pretend that the MAGA cult hasn't fallen to its knees.
Oh, for fucks sake. Does it have to be explicitly spelled out or risk being just stolen by religious bigots? Are those who aren't Christians still able to consider themselves Americans? Because it seems like if that isn't explicitly spelled out then the Christo-fascists are determined to claim otherwise. I'm just so fucking sick and tired of the conceited assumptions made by the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet that believe in an unproven invisible sky daddy that they think is so much better than other people's imaginary wizards in the sky that they get us into unnecessary religious wars and send our kids to die all for their stupid unproven beliefs.
Are you serious? You need me to explain to you why celebrating the 250th anniversary of our nation is not a religious affair?
Again, Drakk, you ask me to explain something that a) is easy to understand and b) I just finished explaining. An individual expressing their faith is entirely different than the government using its resources to promote a particular religion.
Now you cherry-pick to misrepresent what I wrote.
Drakk, the administration is calling the shots:
The government is using its resources to promote a particular religion.
But I have not argued that the mere mention of religion is promotion. I have argued that this is the government using its resources to promote a particular religion.
The Trump administration is calling the shots on this promotion. If an administration had, instead, called up Freedom from Religion Foundation to conduct a National Jubilee of Removing Religion from Government, you would almost certainly be blaming that administration for their choice during our historic celebration.
The organizer, the sponsor, those who call the shots, are promoting a particular religion by their choices and their funding.
There is nothing to prove. This is about as basic as it gets. When a CEO of a corporation employs a termination firm to execute mass layoffs, would you argue that the layoffs are not really initiated and controlled by the CEO?
The Trump administration is using government resources to promote Christianity.
The Trump cult = those who, after all Trump has done, still support him for PotUS.
IMO, continuing to follow/support someone who is clearly harming you and others, who clearly does not care about you and others, and who exploits you and others for personal gain and self-aggrandizement, is the kind of blind trust —despite cold hard reality— that defines a cult.
Right. I see we're going to where we always go. No thanks.
Let me ask you the same question. Are those who are Christians still able to consider themselves American? Freedom 250's event is just one of many that is coordinating celebration events with the government. Are you saying that anyone should be able to do so except religious organizations????
Yes, and you took us there as always.
What is the point of you suggesting that celebrating the 250th anniversary of our nation could be a religious affair? That is absurd.
That is almost like asking who decided that Independence Day is not a religious holiday.
Absolutely, and they would be welcome to an American celebration of our 250th anniversary, just like the Muslims and Atheists and Hindu's, even those from the Church of Satan are welcome.
So, you're saying there is a government planned and funded Muslim 'Freedom" celebration too? And one for our Jewish American friends? And one for our gay American friends? I mean the Christian event is just "one of many" you say, when are the rest happening? Well, lets check the Whitehouse.Gov to see all the other events planned...hmmmm....
Freedom 250 – The White House
Nope! Just the fucking Christian event, that's it.
Nope. You're the only one suggesting that. But it was a solid attempted last second straw man to throw out when you saw you'd already lost the argument.
thumpers are going to lose more than the argument for their part in elevating an unamerican fascist into the oval office ...
So what's the problem?
First, it wasn't government planned. Unless you have proof to the contrary. Everything I've looked at says Freedom 250, a non-government non-profit planned it and Task Force 250 supported it, just as it has other non-profits for the anniversary.
Second, I have no idea whether any Muslim, Jewish, gay or any other groups you may have in mind have applied for support from Task Force 250. If any of them do they should get the same support as any other applicant.
Gosh! Maybe because they were the only one's to apply for support so far?
It was a question. It doesn't fit the definition of a straw man. I'm trying to figure out just what the hell has you so upset about the Rededication 250 celebration. As far as I can tell, it seem simply to be that it was religious. Worse, it involved Christians. Worse still, it involved taxes, like any other 501(c)3.
I don't have to suggest it. Proof that it can be a religious affair happened on Sunday, May 17. I am honestly baffled that you think it can't be or that it would be absurd, especially having proof to the contrary. I mean, why can't it be?
Not really. Independence Day is a holiday. The anniversary is an event, and there's no reason that it should only be celebrated only secularly. Christianity is inextricably interwoven into our history, is it not? But even Independence Day can be celebrated within a religious context, if people wish to. That's the point of the questions I asked you. Who are you to decide how others must celebrate such things? They can celebrate it any way they want to.
How do you not see a problem with the 250 Anniversary celebration ONLY being planned and executed on taxpayer dollars, by conservative Christian groups? These are the same folk who have been ACTIVELY against "inclusion". Would you be just fine with ONLY a Muslim group organizing the taxpayer funded 250th American Anniversary? Would it be just fine as long as you were allowed to attend but were surrounded by Islamic iconography and messaging? Really?
Oh please. If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you. These nasty Christo-fascists have climbed up Trumps as so far, they're hanging from his nose hairs.
You can't really be that obtuse, right?
Right, just like asking if you stopped beating your wife is "just a question".
Well, if you can't imagine what the problem is, ask yourself if you would be okay with all of the Whitehouse involvement and coordinating tax dollars if Freedom 250 was a Muslim group. If you believe you would be just fine and that they're going to be perfectly bi-partisan and open to all religions and none and aren't trying to push their ideology on anyone, then please, do let us know how you would support that and defend that just as vehemently as you are defending a Christian group spending American tax dollars.
So was slavery, segregation, sanctioned discrimination, misogyny and child labor. We should never forget Christianity, but we don't need it trying to stand at the front pretending it represents all Americans.
I'm really sick and tired of people who think only Christians are important in this country! !!!!
... the entitled hypocrites of the thumper hierarchy.
there's buildings filled with them on every sunday ...
The same way I don't see a problem when the government gives the same support to something like the LGTBQ movement.
From ChatGPT.
I can see this is just a waste of time. All of you are just reacting, not thinking.
Our 250th anniversary has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. It is celebrating our declaration of independence from Great Britain.
People are obviously free to celebrate their religion on this day and on any other day of the year.
But our declaration of independence was not and has never been a religious event.
Good grief, Drakk.
No, Drakk, it is quite the opposite.
See @5.2.32:
Our 250th anniversary has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. It is celebrating our declaration of independence from Great Britain.
People are obviously free to celebrate their religion on this day and on any other day of the year.
But our declaration of independence was not and has never been a religious event.
You put forth a silly argument and then get upset when people are not persuaded. This is your problem to solve.
Why don't they just stay there and not come out to boss people around?
When I was a practicing Catholic even we didn't have to attend Mass that day. But every other holiday.....
they can't, it's a MLM/ponzi scheme that will collapse financially ...
there's no such thing as independence in the catholic religion while you're a member. they have little booths to recant in on sunday for the independence minded ...
thumper bullshit. equality for all american citizens is guaranteed by the constitution, state sponsored religion is not ...
it could potentially become a religious holiday by utilizing an abandoned open pit copper mine in nevada with rail access as an unmarked memorial to the christo-fascist's failed theocracy movement ... /s
Perhaps if you take the blinders off you can see the difference in your own examples. You site examples of:
Are ANY of your examples where ANY of those groups are being given taxpayer money to produce, coordinate and manage an American holiday or celebration? While it's nice to see that the federal government has, at times, acknowledged those American groups for their tireless work for the American people, and may have even allowed some of them to access grants that previously had only been gobbled up by Christian non-profits. But clearly none of those groups were being handed the keys to the Whitehouse and the treasury. I do get why so many rightwing conservative Christians are desperate to claim America as their own, it's a great country that was created for all people, even protestant Christians running from persecution. The problem only presents itself when some Christians get greedy and too full of themselves and start bullying other religious groups and stopping anyone they don't see as "one of them", aka white conservative Christian, from creating spaces for themselves on American shores. This 250th Anniversary they've abducted and held for ransom is just another prime example of conservative Christians gargantuan, though completely undeserved, hubris.
The movement towards diversity, inclusion and equality was to give a space to the groups that had been ignored for centuries of American history. Now the greedy religious conservative bigots who have had the lion's share of the American pie since our founding are screaming and crying because others dared to try and have a slice. The push back against DEI by the bigots is obvious and says FAR more about them than it does those wanting to just be included. Frankly, I don't trust a single word out of conservative MAGA Christians mouths; they lie just like their father the orange devil. I watch what they are actually doing, and it is sick and twisted and morally corrupt and will be exposed eventually and when it is they will all go down in a metaphoric meteor of fire and brimstone and patriotic Americans everywhere will get out their sticks and marshmallows to enjoy the show.
organized religion in america is nothing more than a business that owes 100 years of back taxes and interest ...
Organized religion certainly is.
Organized religion does not reward thinking, it rewards obedience.
Thinking is what all those freed of organized religion are able to do.
Religion is the box.
Sure, it can be scary at first, admitting you don't know everything.
Admitting that you don't know what, if anything, created the universe or how, or where your consciousness goes after death, these are hard for some to accept. But for those willing to learn with an open mind it can be the most incredible personal journey.
Those who have lived sheltered by fiction all their lives are able to grow and move beyond such childish beliefs, just like accepting Santa isn't real after having been lied to by people you trusted all your life.
The more you question, not conform, the more you actually begin to think for yourself and who knows, you might just find you like it.
gee, that doesn't sound as easy as having a 1 word explanation for anything and everything that happens ... /s
So, it's just a celebration of one specific act and nothing else? At all? ChatGPT would disagree, it seems. When asked "Historically, is the norm to simply celebrate that specific event or both the event and the history since," it returned the following:
In 63 years of life, this has proven to be true in my experience.
So in all this, you got ChatGPT to offer religion once as one of several examples of other items that can be noted in the celebration.
This event is the celebration of our independence. That is an undeniable fact. Most every celebration includes other ideas, but that does not change the fact that this is the celebration of our 250th year since we declared independence.
In the entire response, religion is mentioned once as an example of something that might be noted. That is a far cry from making the case that it is okay for government resources to be used to promote a single religion (Christianity).
As I noted earlier, it is not that one cannot mention religion. The problem is the focus on a single religion to the exclusion of all others. That, when done using government resources, violates the First Amendment.
Your ChatGPT response does not refute that in the slightest.
it seems to be lost on some that the first settlers to america were escaping a state favored and mandated religion ...
Um, no. It isn't me that is trying to make this about religion. No one other than you has tried to make this seem like Christians are trying to turn Independence Day into a religious holiday. That's a red herring of your making.
And yes, it appears once. Just like all the other items that can be noted in the celebration also appearing once. And that is exactly the point you seem to be unaware of or trying to deny. Any one of those items can be the focus for a celebration event. Like, if someone has an Independence Day celebration that revolves around the progression of Civil Rights in this country. Would you have a cow over that, too?
And nobody denies it. It is also undeniable that celebrating the country's history is also a part of Independence Day. Christians celebrating the religious aspect of our country's history is just as valid a celebration as celebrating any other aspect. I really don't know why this causes you a problem or why you're denying it.
Totally agree. Get back to me when some other religious group gets denied their application for government support. Or do you already have evidence of other religions being excluded? Have Muslims applied for partnership and gotten denied? Some other group? If not, your argument is without merit.
Or you're suffering under a fair amount of cognitive bias.
What are you talking about now? My primary claim all along has been that promoting Christianity using government resources violates the first amendment. My secondary claim (a fact) is that the 250th is celebrating our declaration of independence.
No, that is not what ChatGPT claimed. (It mentioned religion once as an example among several of what might also be noted during a celebration.) Nowhere does it say that a celebration event such as celebrating our 250th can have as its FOCUS religion, or anything else. The FOCUS, Drakk, is our declaration of independence.
We can obviously talk about other items during the celebration. I have noted multiple times that having speakers talk about other topics, such as history, religion, etc. is fine. What is NOT fine is promoting Christianity with government resources. So, for example, mere mention of a creator is not a problem. Recognizing each of the various religions practiced in the USA is not a problem. But having Christianity be the only religion represented with speakers expressing Christian beliefs in a government forum during the celebration of our 250th is NOT fine.
Clearly you are desperate to try to prevail here. You are trying to take a single reference to religion and present it as sanctioning strictly Christian speakers during our 250th. No surprise you are yet again making this personal.
Bottom line, our 250th is a celebration of our declaration of independence from Great Britain. The idea that I even have to type this totally obvious fact repeatedly is absurd. Further, using government resources to promote a single religion (Christianity) during this celebration violates the First Amendment.
This rightwing Christian 250th Anniversary celebration is intended by these religious conservatives to be a declaration of dependance. A dependance on God, which they're forcing ALL of us to accept contrary to the constitution specifically forbidding such things. This is a clear attempt to "establish" Christianity as the faith of America. They openly state such on the Whitehouse website:
The constitution protects my right to tell their God to go fuck itself. But these religious bigots won't listen to reason, they're to self-absorbed circle-jerking it to their own reflection.
it's funny when gullible thumpers expect others to treat them as normal and to fear the mythological beings they've created to avoid critical thinking.
Let me repost it, but this time highlighting what shows you to be completely wrong and why I suggest you may be suffering from cognitive bias.
Not only does it not say it can't have as its FOCUS, it clearly indicates that the focus is quite often not simply independence. In fact, many don't even place the importance on the "independence" part and, instead, see it in terms of the birth of our nation. I think what is telling is that this conversation wouldn't even be happening had the government supported and promoted celebration at the National Mall had not been by Christians, but say, civic ideals. There'd be none of this "It's only about independence from Britain" nonsense.
Agreed. Fortunately, that isn't what happened. What actually happened was the promotion of a Christian event with government resources, which is exactly the same thing it does with other groups and issues. That is, a Christian event was treated equally as any other the government promotes, like the afore mentioned Pride2025 event.
First, it wasn't a government forum. It was a public space holding an event put on by a private, not governmental, entity in partnership with a government program open to anyone.
Second, it absolutely IS fine. There's no Constitutional requirement by the First Amendment or anywhere else in the constitution that says all faiths (or no faith) must be represented at any overtly religious event in the public square. What is not fine is the government excluding other faiths from having the same opportunity. I keep mentioning this and you keep failing to address it. Why?
It's not personal. It is an attempt to get you to see what you are doing. You are denying what the ChatGPT post plainly says. If you think it says something else, then do what I did and highlight the portions that you think says otherwise. I think you are simply in denial about it, though, and what is that if not cognitive bias?
Now, it may be your opinion that this violates the First Amendment. If so, fine. You get to have one. But legally, it does not. As intended by the Constitution, it does not. Government did not endorse Christianity as the National Religion. The government did not coerce attendance. The government did not restrict anyone from attending. As far as I know at this time, the government has not denied the same opportunity to other faith groups or even non-faith groups. The event was not government conceived or organized. The event wasn't explicitly sectarian (was not focused on a single denomination, like Catholicism.)
In other words, the government partnering and/or promoting something like Rededicate 250 doesn't violate any part of the Constitution as long as it offers the same opportunity to any other group and, is in fact just a normal part of what the government does. You know, like the Pride2025 event? This could have been any other group and I don't think you'd have even noticed but because this was religious... I think that tells me what your real issue is.
Your highlights do not, in any way, contradict what I have stated, nor do they rebut my argument.
You are playing word games. The 250th is a celebration of our Declaration of Independence . That does not mean that we are not allowed to do anything else (as I have stated). It means, however, that the reason for celebration is our Declaration of Independence .
Nowhere have you demonstrated that the 250th celebration "could be" a religious event as you claimed. You have simply illustrated the obvious fact that religion, history and other factors could normally be included in the celebration.
That does NOT, in any way, make this a religious event. Nor does it make it okay to use government resources to promote a single religion.
Looks to me like you are trying a baffle with bullshit game. That is clearly not going to work with me, and hopefully nobody else.
Reminder of my argument:
Our 250th is a celebration of our Declaration of Independence from Great Britain. It is not a religious celebration nor should it be a religious celebration (a truly ridiculous notion); it is a celebration of our independence.
Further, using government resources to promote a single religion (Christianity) during this celebration violates the First Amendment.
I'm playing word games? What do you call this? It is not simply that. It is also a birthday celebration and people celebrate it in that context, too, and in various ways. You don't get to decide what's valid and what isn't.
And I'm the one playing word games? Right. I think anyone who's attempting to be rational is going to recognize that ChatGPT isn't listing a set of rules. It is listing how the event has been celebrated historically. It is saying that, historically, people have celebrated the event in many various ways, precisely because it is not simply a celebration of our victory over the British, but also the birth of our nation. And since it is you playing the word games, nowhere does it say it "can't be" a religious event. Same as it doesn't say it can't be a historical event, cultural event, civics event or anything else anyone wants a particular event to celebrate.
And it looks to me like you're trying to impose the definitions you approve of and only addressing my points from there, ignoring my points almost entirely.
I have better things to do than this. Have a nice day.
And nowhere does it say it "can't be" an event hosted by the KKK. But that doesn't mean we should support their doing so. They do not represent or speak for all Americans, just many white conservative Christians.
But you're right, the deplorable religious bigots have every right to host their own event celebrating the birth of our nation, they just shouldn't be doing it on my dime. But at least they don't need to produce another film to show at their white Christian festival, they have the one they made years ago to re-watch.
Yes, obviously.
I have repeatedly stated that people can speak of religion, history, accomplishments, ideology, etc. as part of the celebration. But the celebration is and will always be about the 250th anniversary of our Declaration of Independence. BY DEFINITION.
This is not the 250th anniversary of religion, ideology, industry, politics, democracy, republics, law, constitutions, ethnicity, fashion, patriotism, symbolism, science, technology, philosophy, mathematics, geography, climate, military conflicts, colonialism, slavery, immigration, human rights movements, education systems, art movements, globalization, environmentalism, social justice, economic systems, international relations, civil rights, global conflicts, cultural movements, innovation, social media, public health initiatives, space exploration, etc. etc.
Some will speak of these during the celebration but that does not change the damning fact that:
The Semiquincentennial event celebrates 250 years since our Declaration of Independence from Great Britain.
No matter how much you desire to claim this could be a religious event, it simply is not. Just amazing that anyone has to type such an obvious fact.
Nowhere does ChatGPT support your claim that celebrating our independence could be a religious event. It merely states (as part of an example, and only once) that religion, among other notions, could be discussed as part of a celebration. Well of course people can speak of other notions as part of the celebration. Mentioning religion is wholly different than having this celebration be about religion. And it is entirely different from using government resources to promote a particular religion (Christianity in this case). ChatGPT refutes absolutely none of what I have argued.
Your claim and your arguments that this event could be religious are absurd. Just amazing that you keep up this nonsense.
Reminder of my argument:
Our 250th is a celebration of our Declaration of Independence from Great Britain. It is not a religious celebration nor should it be a religious celebration (a truly ridiculous notion); it is a celebration of our independence.
Further, using government resources to promote a single religion (Christianity) during this celebration violates the First Amendment.
please go do them ...
usually I like to find the sweeping generalizations within the long winded diatribes from the religiously challenged, so that I can moderate them, but it's rare to get more than one bible thumper to humiliate on an article, so I just went with it. if I've disappointed anyone by not eliminating the fact free religious dogma that's based upon centuries of hearsay until finally documented, I apologize ...
I get it Drak You want to quibble about semantics rather than to address the glaring inconsistencies between the actual teachings of Jesus Christ and the policies and politics you endorse and advocate. Christ prophesied that many who claimed to follow HIM would betray HIM and follow false prophets motivated by their own selfishness and personal vanity...
Surprise Surprise Surprise! HE was not wrong! Told Ya!
a millennium and a half since the teachings were put on parchment and all they've done is use it for evil and exploit it for cash ...
Look at you, being downright Neighborly.
no wonder goobers love trump ...
My understand is that this religious event received government funding.
Now other religious groups receive some government funding, but not to preach but to do charitable social work.
All of the preachers mentioned in the seed have highly problematic positions on political matters facing the country.
The Satanic Temple should apply for funding to feed the hungry
The founders obviously believed in Judeo-Christian morality. The enlightened thinking of Europe was premised upon the idea that all humans are divine; not just a favored few. The enlightenment overturned the idea of the divine superiority of a favored class to rule over men. The enlightenment overturned the divine authority of church and monarchy and replaced it with an egalitarian divinity of all people.
The Constitution was premised upon the idea that all people are divine. The 'secular' idea was that no one could claim a superior divinity to govern. The divinity of a church leader is no greater than that of ordinary people. But that 'secular' idea does not diminish the importance of Judeo-Christian morality in governing. And that 'secular' idea does not deny the divinity of people.
I almost totally agree. The founders intended an egalitarian nation built upon a foundation of Judeo-Christian morality. Embedding Judeo-Christian morality into government means that government cannot be separated from religion. The 1st amendment separates state and church but not state and religion. The 1st amendment prevents those claiming divine superiority from taking control of government away from the people.
The problem with Rededicate 250 is elevating the practices of religion as a sign of divine superiority which the founders would have rejected. Rededicate 250 was not intended to revitalize egalitarian divinity or the foundation of Judeo-Christian morality for laws and governing.
those that defy and cross the wall of separation deserve harsh and permanent punishment ...
Do you realize that wall of separation prohibits attacking the divinity of mankind? Abortion, as an example, diminishes the divinity of humans.
That wall of separation means that someone's subjective, self-serving moral doctrine cannot be imposed upon the United States of America. The United States was built upon a foundation of Judeo-Christian morality within a society of egalitarian divinity. Denying the core importance of Protestantism in both the Enlightenment and founding of the United States does a disservice to history. Secularism does not excuse decadence, immorality, normalization of vices, or reduction of the human condition to circumstantial favoritism.
You're using the term 'divine' incorrectly, as it pertains to Judeo-Christian understanding, but I get what you're trying to say. I believe you are using it as shorthand for 'created in God's image,' yes? If so, it should be noted that this is emphatically not identical to divinity.
Beyond that, yes, I believe you are generally correct in what you've said in your post. It would be difficult to find an historian that would deny Judeo-Christian values and ideas were not inextricably intertwined with the development of Western history.
religions that oppose the individual freedom of choice for women, can step up financially for the unborn or stfu, period. america was founded upon the concept of individual freedoms, organized religion falls short on delivering anything close to it.
you assume that everyone else accepts your idea of being under the dominion of your particular sky fairy. I'm afraid that's incorrect. also, no religious belief system is as valid as any other religious belief system by our constitution. I don't have to pick one, I don't have to feel bound by one, and I certainly don't have to answer to any version of one.
I reject the concept that our constitution yields to some higher moral power, on the contrary, it stops others not bound by restrictive and ridiculous religious dogma from violently turning on those that promote unconstitutional and unamerican ideals concerning undue political influence of any particular religion in america. the constitution allows religious vendors to ply their trade in this country, within acceptable boundaries and usually without question or taxation, not the other way around.
here's an easy way to remember how it works. you can have your god and you can have caesar. caesar rules on the earthly plane and your god rules in your heavenly plane. your god only rules his believers, not anyone else, on this earthly plane.
thumpers have it pretty good here, but the guy the majority of them put into the oval office is fucking it up pretty bad. it might be advisable for the religiously challenged to stfu and find some shadows to fade into for awhile. trump has overdrawn our checking accounts with a religious war in the middle east and some people wanting to blame others for their situations might start looking at those running the most lucrative cash businesses on sundays for some relief.
FYI - please remember that when your god moves the true believers to go against america and the US constitution, he already knows what's about to happen to you when you try it ...
american males can travel to any state without losing any of their rights, american women cannot. explain that thumpers.
it's important to realize how that is possible in america, and recognize who is behind that movement ...
when their maga savior goes sideways, it'll be maga thumper throats that are the closest to grab. have fun going to church armed to the teeth and singing hymns about peace, love, forgiveness, and geezus saving you.
pre civil war 2.0 intel
FYI - the majority of evangelical churches that have parking lot attendants are maga churches, with armed security.
armed security
ironic
aren't they looking forward to going to their reward? Unless.....
so much for loving us and praying for us, huh?
They want us dead not themselves...
...or enslaved
do they want us enslaved so they can devote more time to molesting children and committing fraud?
that and somebody has to scrub their toilets
sounds like that job calls for a navy maga vet ...
Seems to be generally true for GOPTRUMP.
Do you have actual data to support any of them ?
You seriously cannot see the essential truth underlying these items?
You continue to try to defend this administration.
Compiled by ChatGPT:
[✘]
not an advisable start here ...
Are you aware that Trump is the head of GOPTRUMP and essentially controls GOPTRUMP?
You wanted to see data underlying the meme. Now that you see them, you demure.
You have no rebuttal, just a pathetic quip.