Only Liberals Do This: Mom Might Cut Off Her Kids’ Contact With In-Laws Because They Support Trump
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Okay—I’ll channel the Left’s code here for a second. I do come from a place of privilege concerning families—the most important aspects of it. No one has been stricken with a serious illness, everyone gets along, we love each other to death, and we all have very different political views. My dad is a Republican. My mom is a liberal Democrat, always has been since she first volunteered for Joe Biden’s Senate run in 1972. She knows I’m a Trump supporter. I know she’s a Clinton supporter. And guess what? We still get along fine.
There’s a disturbing number of families that are nuking their relationships over politics , despite the fact that Republicans and Democrats have been elected and re-elected president of the United States for years. The point is, I’m sure a lot of people were disappointed with either of those outcomes in the long list of elections we’ve had—and yet, I don’t remember hearing families going berserk over George W. Bush winning—twice.
Liberals gloated to no end in 2012, but we shut their faces in 2016. I don’t know why liberals feel the need to detonate relationships over political differences. It’s sad. There’s not a single thing you can discuss or bond over that doesn’t deal with whatever is going on in the trash heap that is Washington, D.C.?
Deep down, yes, there's more that unites us as a country, but it’s the Left who is just unwilling to discuss that. They want a divorce. And in an era where Left and Right don’t understand one another, I guess that’s where it can become easier to sever ties with your family members over a political disagreement. Let’s take this Huffington Post guest writer who says that her uber-Catholic, pro-Trump in-laws might cause her to cut her kids’ ties with their grandparents (via Huffington Post ):
“I don’t understand why anyone lives in Los Angeles,” my mother-in-law said to my husband over the phone a few months ago. “It’s full of immigrants.”
This offensive “observation” was not a stand-alone comment. It was only the latest in a series of bigoted sound bites from my in-laws. Both in their 70s, they live on Florida’s Gulf Coast in a predominantly white, older community saturated by conservative talking points. They see themselves as tolerant, life-loving Catholics. But their tolerance extends only to people they know and understand ?and those people are white, straight, “American” people.
Actually, it isn’t just racism that muddies the water in my relationship with my in-laws. It’s sexism and homophobia, too. Sometimes, it’s even veiled anti-Semitism. (Note to non-Jews everywhere: Telling a Jewish person how much you love Jewish people is, on its face, a message of marginalization.) My father-in-law once had to leave the room when two men kissed on TV. “Disgusting,” he whispered under his breath, within earshot of my son.
My in-laws have always been conservative. They have always been Republican. But, before 2016, they were Catholics devoted, specifically, to the “problem” of abortion. That was the issue they cared about, and it was the issue that ignited their ballot box passion. What my husband and I have witnessed, however, has been an ideological shift, from a relationship with religion to blind idolatry.
[…]
When I asked them to stop watching right-wing cable news in the living room of our home (“You’re afraid of the truth,” my father-in-law snapped back), they rerouted to their computers. They now take solace at the kitchen table, laptops kissing, where they sift through whatever degradation the right happens to be pushing at that moment. Tucker Carlson drones on, and then Sean Hannity. They cannot get enough, and they will not stop. Days fade from bright to bruise as they sit at their computers, happily held hostage by alternative facts.
Their hatred is expanding, and it’s expanding quickly. These days, it manifests itself through conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein and the Clintons, antifa and Black Lives Matter. My in-laws oppose abortion in any and all circumstances, but they appear unbothered by the idea of migrant kids in cages at the country’s border. The media sources they ingest, of course, are intentionally dishonest, and our conversations with them reveal a view of the world that’s disturbingly removed from reality.
[…]
So the burning question remains: What do we do? And how do we do it? Day after day, week after week, month after month, my husband and I have put off any kind of real conversation with my in-laws because they live far away, and we don’t see them much, and because, honestly, just thinking about how that conversation will probably go is stomach-wrenching. My husband speaks to his mother on his drive home from work, and lately I rarely — if ever — answer the phone when I know it’s her because my anger has not yet peaked.
My own family, who long ago branded me a hothead, advised me to do no more than limit the contact my children have with their grandparents. How much damage could be done in small doses? they posited. That’s not really a solution, of course; it’s more or less a way of continuing to avoid the problem. Our friends have been mostly noncommittal. Mostly people shake their heads sympathetically or pat my shoulder. They don’t know what to say. What advice would I give to someone else, after all? What advice would I offer myself? Would it be to cut all ties? And how does one even go about doing that?
You can break up with a boyfriend. You can end a friendship. But how do you stop a family member from being a family member?
Now, there’s no definite answer to the severing of ties question, but isn’t it sad that it’s come to this?
I’m a total partisan. I can’t stand Democrats or their agenda, but I know that losing my mother to politics is just stupid. And being someone who blogs about politics all day, the last thing I want to talk about with my family is that subject. And they know it too. There are other things to talk about, the last being where I stand on the issues because they know how I feel. Granted, these in-laws did say some pretty bad things about blacks, but so did one of my late uncles. We didn’t cut ties with him, and even though I was young, I don’t have any bad memories of him. Then again, he never spoke like that in front of me or anyone else for that matter. And the times he did, it was always in the past. Heck, there was a lot of opinions back then that was considered more acceptable, but in the Left’s book—there is no forgiveness.
I do disagree with the Epstein angle. I couldn’t care less about the conspiracy theories; the man is a credibly accused pedophile who trafficked underage girls. And yes, Bill Clinton did take flights on his Lolita Express in the past. Antifa should be declared a domestic terror group; one member recently attacked an ICE facility in Tacoma, Washington, and the Dayton shooter supported them as well.
I don’t know if these in-laws were serious about conspiracy theories about the Clintons, but I’ve peddled the “body count” in jest many times. Liberals have very thin skins on everything. Everything is racist or problematic. Joking about the Clintons could be triggering. Whatever happens, I hope contact with the in-laws isn’t severed. It’s a decision that cannot be taken back. Things will never be the same.
We all know that families aren’t perfect. You have to love whomever no matter the flaws. It’s sad that political views have become a category in this arena. I’m a proud Trump supporter, I’m not delicate in how I phrase my positions; I’m pugnacious. And I’m unapologetic. And my family knows that. They still love me anyway, even if my liberal mother has mixed feelings about my stuff being tweeted out by the president.
I fondly remember that call, “Honey congratulations…I think.” We then shared a laugh. It’s just a political opinion, folks. But some on the Left view this as some mark on their soul.
The ironic thing about the HuffPo essay is the lack of acknowledgment that the Left is just as nasty and has, arguably, become more violent since Trump has been elected. Yes, the Left proudly touts their support for diversity and tolerance, but only for their side. Their policies are so good…that they’re mandatory. It’s tolerance…with guns pointed at our heads. Sorry, no thanks.
And if you think I’m nuts, was it a Republican who posted a list of donors from an opposing political campaign that invites harassment? No. That would be Democratic Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX), who chairs his brother Julian Castro’s 2020 presidential campaign. Is it doxxing? No, but it narrows the target area for the left-wing nuts who will harass these people. Not even MSNBC could defend it.
Liberals can’t stand you supporting a Republican. And it seems some are more than willing to make you pay for such a decision, no matter what the cost.
H/T VodkaPundit
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And age is supposed to give them a pass? I seem to remember somewhere around 1954, catholic priest were apologizing for their role in not speaking up against slavery, Jim Crow treatment of Blacks, and red-lining. So, . . . where were these two life-long Catholics during those mass?
I am sick of all this talk and projection from the Right-wing. If you want life to change for the better in the United States, drop the pretense of being a friend and 'study' peace with all men, women, girls, and boys of good-will and not just those who support your causes. Conservatives are not 'unloved' for being conservatives. Conservatives are 'unloved' for being meddlesome, busybodies, who insist on there way or the highway. Case in point: "Moscow" Mitch McConnnell. Who would rather wear the moniker than do anything to please a liberal.
It's sad when friends and family members allow themselves to get so manipulated by smalls like politics that they severe ties with loved ones. They clearly haven't figured life out yet.
Good friends and family members are a very precious and limited commodity. Life is WAY too short to operate in such a manner. WAY too short!!
What is that old saying that is oh so true??? What are the three things never discussed in a family - sex, religion and politics.
Works for me.
That seems to be all some religious conservatives can talk about these days. "Don't have sex before marriage!" "Homosexuals are an abomination!", "Faith in Jesus is the only true way to salvation!" "Donald Trump was chosen by God!"...
Is it really the person who doesn't want to listen to that craps fault for walking away?
But how often do we have to agree to disagree? Wouldn't once be enough and then everyone can stop talking about it? Sadly, many of the religious conservatives I know seem to not be able to discuss anything else, so as soon as you agree to disagree, they're right back at "But don't you think … yada yada yada...". Most simply can't help themselves.
That is precisely one or several of the items about some religious conservatives which makes my skin crawl the most. They say they want to help you with your life experience and then proceed to help elect (reelect?) the epitome of a human devil!
Donald Trump is such a low-grade politician that he has his enablers running around mouthing, "Trump was elected and the people knew he had not shown his tax returns." What a bunch of baloney. Donald Trump lied then and continues to lie now that he is under 'life-long' audit. And, of course, being president with a 'foghorn' for a mouth and a propensity for firing cabinet members means he rides shotgun over the Treasury Secretary's discretion to decide anything on his own.
Riddle me this o ye faithful Christian-conservatives. How STUPID are Christian-Conservatives to throw support behind Donald Trump for four more years in a 2020 bid without seeing one tax return from this lying, cheating, tax reprobate? How about it Christian Conservatives while you advice others how to get right with God, what are you going to tell Donald Trump? Huh?
DP, there it is exposed and on the surface. The Trump Christian conservatives are frauds. Frauds. Frauds. They demand nothing from their conman, but to oppress others.
It is simple. Everybody drops their rocks. Come from behind their fortifications. Engage in compromise. Grow the nation as one open-body, one open-mind, one open-spirit. Accept diversity. It was what the nation wanted from the moment it began to celebrate immigrants' arrival here. People can work together and have their differences. Just look at the church in this country; millions of people roaming around to and fro diversify in their methodologies and not harming, attacking, or OVERWRITING one another.
Although that too can change; if one religious sect's ambition is not tamped down, but actually manages to 'color' outside the lines. Question then will be: Can the same or similar religious nationalists fights break out in the United States? Get the visual. Yes, see it. It's a horror, isn't it?
I do not shy away, HA.
Donald Trump is a fraud. He has lied to me, you, and the nation-at -large about who he is as a man and as a leader. Christians who enable a fraudulent leader, are not behaving in good faith or in according with the Spirit of Truth! It is not divisive to hold truth intact.
What you should ask is this:
Why does Donald Trump seek to divide the republican and conservative 'wheat' from 'chaff,' instead of allowing all to grow together into a well-constituted party?
Your conservative party is fragmenting over Trump - and he loves it as he name-calls fellow conservatives who can not walk with him; breaks apart well-developed institutions (and puts in weak, atrophied leadership is any at all), listens to the hidden voices of "whisperers" and others fringe elements, who only desire is to be near power, but not of it. Those marginal elements never dreamt they would have it so "good."
Are you suggesting that a Christian is not allowed to call a public figure a fraud if this figure claims to be Christian?
Is this in the Bible or did you make this up?
Oh come on, HA. You are publicly questioning whether CB is Christian? Open you eyes man.
Given @3.2.7, seems political ideology is a stronger binding force than religious beliefs for some.
Hi Tig! Heartland American needs only to valid his reasoning with a certain question:
In the Trump Administration who is in Charge of the Treasury and the Tax Department of the United States?
President Donald Trump has step by step surrounded himself with men of his caliber and standards. Thus, when Donald Trump says to this one, "Go!" It is done. And that one, "Come!" It is accomplished.
Trump has not suggested, recommended or directed anyone in Treasury's tax division to properly apprise the House Ways and Means Committee of his tax status:
Is Donald Trump currently under an IRS audit?
Has Donald Trump in the past been under any audit by the IRS?
Indeed, this so-called, "Taxpayer-in Chief" has directed the heads of department to give no quarter to any request of any House committee on taxation or otherwise.
The Christian-Right considers God to be 'party' to this kind of scheme and action. This behavior by Donald Trump is not reconcilable with any Spirit of Truth I read about and can 'flesh' out in the books and letters of the Bible.
Indeed, Donald Trump it is said ignored the call of his country to serve in the wars of his youth, and now he ignores the laws of this land, by standing up to his fellow public servants tasked with a service job to execute. This is not Donald Trump being superb and at one's best. This is the character of a man who refuses to be treated fairly as his predecessors were in any way, shape, or manner. Indeed, it is indecency and cowardice on full display. The "Taxpayer-in-Chief" refuses to be open and honest with the citizens who must be open and honest in their dealings with the government.
This is what the Christian Right is exposing its religious character in support of. If a man enables Donald Trump by providing a 'back' for him to hide behind and launch rude and dangerous attacks at others, one should not be surprised or horrified, when one is looked at differently for doing so.
Then how could you question CB's Christianity given what the man has written on NT for years?
If he is also questioning your Christianity then the same goes for him given all you have written.
Both of you are clearly dyed-in-the-wool Christians but certainly have a very different definition for what it means to be Christian and the beliefs of same.
Questioning the Christianity of either of you two, based on what you two have written on NT, is preposterous.
This is my charge against the Christian Right. Prove me wrong: demonstrate in writing or sound where the Christian Right has attempted to correct Donald J. Trump about his behavior and activities. All things being equal, I will reconsider, mitigate, or apologize for making this charge.
Okay, suppresses us, as believers, in what way: To save time give me your BEST example.
Red Herring argument. Neither President Trump’s nor any other persons tax returns have any bearing on being a Christian, or a Conservative Christian.
No one has any business seeing Trump OR ANY other Americans tax returns. No rational person makes their voting choice based upon a candidate or elected persons tax returns. I’ve voted since 1968 and have NEVER once heard or read of a person voting based upon a tax return
Furthermore that is why there is NO Constitutional or Federal law requirement to do so.
This argument of yours displays the emotionally driven, and lacking rational thought that characterizes many on the left. Many on the right have their own equal shortcomings in voting, but on totally different reasons.
Our voting choices should be based upon shared ideology, shared values, shared vision, agreement with the policy and/or legislative agenda of the candidates (add legislative and/or governing record if they have one). The rest like your juvenile tax demands do nothing to further sound voting decisions
The Republicans have not been a Conservative party for over 100 years. There are some conservatives within their party, but they do not control that party.
I’ve advocated their demise and replacement with a Conservative party for decades
This need to be unpacked:
Your conscience is connected to God as a believer. Surely, you will tell me that you picked a political party based on your spiritual beliefs, and not your spiritual beliefs based on your political party. Thus, it is your faith which informs you above all. And extrapolating from faith, you drew closer to the ideas of the Republican Party, yes?
Yes. Churches and membership can be diversified in minutia and non-offensive rules, traditions, and self-regulating dogmas relating to faith and belief. However, to be clear, I do not question anyone on NT's salvation. If you think I have done so - point me to that statement for a clarification or apology accordingly.
What falls under question is the abuse from the Christian-Right of a former president (Barack H. Obama) which you and some others here attempt to display as a foil to sully and ironically cast bright glimmering light on Donald Trump. It is disingenuous and unchristian-like to judge falsely. For example:
Given the Christian-Right charge that former President Obama lied, can you quantify (throw out) a reasonable estimation of the lies told in the Obama two terms. Now compare that reasonable number (your conscience will be your guide) with the expressed and running count of lies being promulgated in the Trump Administration spanning a mere two and half years.
Heartland American, remembering a Christian desires to judge honestly, what is a righteous assessment of this example? It's rhetorical. Unless you choose to make a public reply.
Untrue. The Spirit is one. Jesus' prayer: that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. (John 17:21.) and this: God is a Spirit: and they that worship God must worship God in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23-24).
Indeed, we must not accept Trump who daily operates daily in a personal and professional spirit of devils and lies.
Why not? Which of you is so 'violate' of your shared and agreed beliefs that you forge a relationship in-spite of disparate political leanings? Lastly, Donald Trump ran as the anti-theological candidate. As someone mimicking faith and not in-filled by a faith in God. In this sense he is not your typical conservative candidate. For those candidates can call upon the God in them at some level. Trump, obviously does not.
It is time to admit it, HA. The conservative movement was searching for a 'hatchet man' to come in and 'tool' for the party. Donald Trump understood 'the Ask", the "Movement" understood 'the Offer and the Receipt."
So well is it understood by all involved that it split the conservative movement into two.
Let's just say, I read your comment and it is of no value to me. That's all.
Your love of totalitarianism and contempt for the Constitution is showing again
“Demanding Trump's tax returns is congressional overreach
Congressional demands for information must be grounded in proper constitutional powers. Congress does not have general investigative authority, let alone a mandate to enforce federal law, both of which are vested in the president. Nor does it have adjudicative power, which is reserved to the judiciary. Its proper investigative power is broad but limited to the purposes of legislation or oversight. And Congress’s oversight powers can be exerted only over matters that plausibly can be reached through the exercise of congressional legislative powers.
As the Supreme Court stated in Watkins v. United States (1957), with respect to a McCarthy-era demand by the House Un-American Activities Committee for information from a private citizen, “there is no general authority to expose the private affairs of individuals without justification in terms of the functions of the Congress,” and “investigations conducted solely for the personal aggrandizement of the investigators or to ‘punish’ those investigated are indefensible.”
Although Congress has oversight authority over the executive branch generally, it has no such authority over the president himself — any more than the president has oversight authority over Congress or the judiciary. Each branch of the federal government is constitutionally equal; none is subordinate. Trump’s business activities before he entered office, and his refusal to make public his tax returns, are not proper subjects of congressional investigation. Although presidential candidates usually release their tax returns as a matter of campaign strategy, Congress could not compel such a release by statute. The Constitution sets qualifications for the presidency, and Congress cannot alter that list.”
David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey practice appellate and constitutional law in Washington. They served in the White House Counsel’s Office and the Department of Justice under former Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
You would. It seems you have been put on 'ignore' how long?
Hardly surprising. Your contempt for rational thought is not new
No comment. Allow the Spirit of Truth be your guide. That's all.
Hurling naked insults? Has it come to this? I call upon you to remember your stature and discipline - Brother.
You appear to be forming your conclusions from a secular basis and not according to the standards established by Jesus
Yes there are many who claim to be Christians but their hearts and their lives do not obey the word of Jesus
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Matthew 7:21-23
And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?"
And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' Luke 13:22-27
John 8:31 (amplified Bible)
So Jesus said to those Jews who had believed in Him, If you abide in My word [hold fast to My teachings and live in accordance with them], you are truly My disciples.
"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." John 15:5-6
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:33
He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. Matthew 10:37-39
I confront and will continue to speak to the Christian Right eye to eye. If it bends that group out of sorts, then so be it. Better it be bent backwards and corrected, then to allow it to abuse the ministry of the Lord of the Gospels and Apostles. The aim is to make straight paths through all the meddlesome, dominionist, busy-bodying accomplished and sought after by certain believers who think God has given them a mandate to wage 'war' on others in this nation. Nothing can be farther from the truth of this great faith we as believers share.
Im not on ignore with the GOP. I left the GOP in 1970 and have no desire to return. They do however ask me every year to come back.
The Holy Spirit has been faithfully guiding me into all truth as promised for over 57 years.
2 Timothy 4:1,2. “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching”
“Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.” Titus 2:15
(Chuckles.) That's all.
Are you suggesting that CB is not a Christian?
You somehow have ascertained that CB is not obeying the word of Jesus?
To pseudo Christians, anyone who does not believe the same as they do are not 'true Christians.' And while spouting endless verses of the Bible and claiming Christ-like piety, they fail to live by the true teachings of their supposed savior by condemning those who simply do not following their own footsteps.
It is an old story, one that has been played out around the world for thousands of years by those who feel they are qualified above all others to sit at the right hand of their God.
Bingo!
While I understand what you wrote down, I do not comprehend what it means to you or why you thought to display it to me. Care to elaborate?
Many claim to be Christians, but their lives say differently
CB and I have had the discussions on key teachings of Jesus that he believes are either not to be followed, or are suggestive to him rather than imperative commands
It is not by my standards I form that conclusion. But by the words of Jesus. CB does not stand alone. I make the same charge against much of the body of Evangelicals who don’t obey Christ
there is a reason why Jesus said the following (not all apply to CB, but to ALL who call themselves Christians)
“You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Matthew 7:16-23
“A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them, “If you want to be my disciple, you must, by comparison, hate everyone else—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:25-27
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Matthew 7:13-14
“Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.”
Luke 13:23-30
“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.” John 12:25-26
“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.”
Matthew 10:37-39 NLT
Matt 25:41-46 (Sheep and Goats (conclusion)) Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.” They also will answer, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?” He will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” Revelation 22:14-16
not looking too good for trumpsters of the religious variety, is it? oh well, buh-bye
Jesus hated false prophets - isn't it funny how many of his followers are exactly that? And they suffer from such unwarranted pride that they think they alone have the one proper interpretation of God, Jesus, and the bible.
Boy, are they in for a nasty surprise if their god really exists
You follow an extremely bizarre interpretation of the bible, despite posing as the only person who apparently truly understands it (which is not a very biblical thing to do). And speaking in tongues???? Nobody should take a person's interpretation of the bible seriously if that person actually speaks in tongues, IMO.
I followed the same orthodox doctrines taught by Jesus, the Apostles, and most of historic Christianity.
i don’t offer private interpretation because it is a sin
as to tongues, more Christians today either have the gift of tongues or continue to believe it as a continued promise to believers. Even the fastest segment of the Catholic Church are Catholic Charismatics
the gift of tongues is a normal part of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit for hundreds of millions of Christians worldwide. I’ve had this beautiful gift from God since 1962.
None of that relates to support of our president. That is about our PERSONAL actions
no one is judged by God on the actions of others.
Look - once and for all, I do not question your salvation, period. End of story.
Front and Center . Donald Trump is a perpetual liar, even today, the Washington Post headlines:
In 928 days, President Trump has made
12,019 false or misleading claims
"False" claims as in lying. "Misleading" claims as in being questionable, and manipulative of the hearts and minds of the citizenship. The American President is probably the most informed citizen in our country-bar none; maybe the most informed individual in the world. So what does these "claims" signify? You tell me.
More importantly how can any citizen, at-known any standard bearers for the Spirit of Truth support and enable a man who willingly and extensively lies to those he serve s? The Christian-Right has not or can not correct Donald Trump. The Christian-Right in order to have any credibility in its stated positions, must depart from the Trump Administration, or DEMAND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IMMEDIATELY REVERSE COURSE ON LIES AND MISLEADING CLAIMS!
Look LFOD, you get in trouble with the moderators when you 'flood the zone' like that with scriptures. Even I must complain: it is too much to unpack there. This is not a dedicated classroom to the Bible. Do me this favor, before I respond to you: Pick the scripture most related to your point and offer it-even if you just link it - I can go read it (surely I will).
Then, we will discuss it concisely without a great amount of 'spillage.' Is this agreeable with you?
Since nobody else can understand the gibberish, what's the point? Linguists have analyzed it and there is no language structure to it at all. It's nothing but people blathering when they're having a delusional fit of ecstasy. The bible even said it shouldn't be practiced in the church.
The first "speaking in tongues" passage in the bible meant nothing about babbling in gibberish, anyway. It says that the apostles spoke in different languages - most likely real languages - and everyone was able to understand what was being said in the language that they knew. Funny how literalists always bastardize the bible.
The ecstatic language? There's no "gift" involved in having a fit and babbling nonsense. Rather, it's something for which treatment should probably be received.
You may as well handle snakes.
I would hope that passage wasn't an attempt to convert - I'm not sure how anyone who read that type of crap would want to!
Funny, though - I'm not sure what bible that came from where it adds the "by comparison" part. Sounds like a trick to pretend that passage isn't as horrible as it actually is.
... make sure the cameras are rolling first.
The babbling gibberish which LFOD is referring to has nothing to do with someone speaking in a REAL LANGUAGE and other people, who don't speak that language, being able to understand it. That was my point. What he's referring to is the people who have religious fits and nothing they say is intelligible to anyone else; it's like they're having a mental seizure and they've convinced themselves that they're actually channeling their god like a medium would. It's bizarre.
Linguists have proven that nobody else can actually understand what the babbler who speaks gibberish in tongues is saying. It's just ... gibberish, and has no structure that an actual language would have. It's not a gift, it's a sign of someone who probably could use mental help at worst (people with brain injuries and psychiatric patients sometimes speak in tongues), and someone who's having a fit at best, working themselves into a religious trance. Then some charlatan pretends they can understand what the person having the fit is saying, and "interprets" it for the gullible fools who are witnessing the fiasco.
Or maybe those people are actually possessed by demons and that's why they have a babbling fit?
How funny that people claim to be literalists and yet they use "speaking of tongues" to mean something far different than it did in the bible; they often don't seem to have even read their bible. Now, if you were to speak an actual language and everyone else could understand it - including those who didn't actually speak or understand that language - that would be different.
What a bizarre sect you follow.
Given your experience, how long do you think these folks have had the gift? To the untrained ear it seems they are simply uttering gibberish. Does one start off babbling (like a baby before it learns to speak) before the gift matures into a true spiritual language? Or are these two just full of crap (in your opinion)?:
Badf— er, the PEOPLE'S Fish has uttered wise words on this matter. Thank you!
I would ask LFOD to tightly tailor his point (for me to respond) as there is a great deal of verbiage and meaning to elucidate as it is, nevertheless.
Nothing that egotistical deserves to be worshipped.
The Bible clearly explains the gift of tongues. I hope this helps to understand the Biblical doctrine which I have taught for decades
Let’s look at the reasons for tongues
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
1 Corinthians 14:2-5
So Paul said that when you are speaking in tongues you are not speaking to man, you are speaking to God.
Now, Paul said that no man understands the person speaking in tongues. How do you equate this with Acts 2 where all of them understood in their own dialects as they were declaring the wonderful works of God? They were all amazed. They said, "Are not all of these who are speaking Galileans? How is it that each one of us is hearing in our own languages as they are declaring the wonderful works of God?" Paul said, "No man understands him."
Now this has led some to conclude that there are two types of tongues. One they call the "sign gift" of tongues and this is the sign that a person has received the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that is usually a language or a dialect. And then they have developed a term called the "prayer language." And they say that Paul, here in 1 Corinthians 14, is talking about a "prayer language" that God gives to the people to assist them in their prayer life.
In 1 Corinthians 13 where Paul is talking about the supremacy of love, he said, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." And so they declare that the tongues of men would be the dialects or the "sign tongues," which could be understood by man. And the tongues of angels would be the "prayer language," which would be a heavenly language that is not any earthly dialect.
Can't God understand all languages? Why does he require gibberish? And really ... Satan? Gibberish is a secret spy language that even the person speaking doesn't understand, so neither can Satan? Why bother talking out loud to God in the first place? Paul is a charlatan - but he did say to keep the gibberish in private, you know.
I can see why having a religious trance would build up someone's faith - it's why, for example, the Native Americans used peyote in their ceremonies.
You're free to your interpretation. What bible.org said makes a lot more sense to most people, though. The bible was referring to people being able to understand other languages. Only Paul seems to think gibberish has any value, just as he's the one who got everyone so hung up about sex.
I asked for your opinions on the speakers in the video; not your biblical doctrine on speaking in tongues.
I would call that prophylactic scripture. If one is going to support the notion of extemporaneously speaking in a spiritual language it is best to declare that language something that nobody understands. Kind of like declaring God to work in mysterious ways, it provides an excuse for the obvious skeptical question. Trouble is, nowadays experts can apply very advanced methods of linguistics to these utterances and show that they are not an unknown language, but rather gibberish. That, of course, would not surprise anyone who looks at this with common sense and reason.
So here were my questions @3.2.57:
Importantly, do you find these two to be an embarrassment or are they true believers with a gift from God?
I see tons of garbage from family members on Facebook all the time. I can get into an argument, or I can do what I always do; just scroll past. Done, simple, finished.
I don't like what they post? Scroll past. I've seen politics get in the way of too many family gatherings and it's not worth it. I disagree with them, they disagree with me. We agree to not discuss certain things, and I simply scroll past.
Thankfully the Trump lovers in my family cut me off years ago (long before Trump was elected) when I left their church and rejected their brand of faith. My 10 year old has only met them twice so far and we didn't stay long. If they can't talk about anything other than their faith or Trump I see no reason why anyone would want to spend any time with them so I'm not surprised others are finding the same thing true in their extended families.
I hear you. Some people just want to keep talking about stuff I'm against, and it's painful to smile and nod and eat my food without throwing up. I have for and against Trump people in my family. If they're together, I do my best to steer conversation to something else like sports. Then again, we have several camps when it comes to sports too, so that doesn't always stop arguments. Stupid Calgary Flames!