Dr. Ford's Testimony - The Questions That Followed
I, like many others, listened closely to Dr. Ford's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Memories are not 100% accurate and cannot be considered reliable without some form of corroboration. Dr. Ford offers people at the gathering, her therapist's notes and spouse and friends told about the alleged incident in 2012. The people allegedly at the gathering do not recall the gathering. Her therapist's notes and others 30 years after the event cannot offer testimony about anything other than Dr. Ford's memory of the alleged incident. I am not saying that Dr. Ford did not experience some type of assault, but instead of answering questions, her testimony only raised more questions.
I realize there are many who choose to believe her - period. Many who become extremely hostile towards those who dare question a woman who claims she has been sexually assaulted. Then there's the Me Too Movement - which, technically, I am a hesitant member of. Hesitant because I believe in due process and fairness. I have never believed in anyone's right to railroad another...ever. Judge Kavanaugh will be forever branded as a sexual abuser...regardless of any investigation findings. Just as Clarence Thomas has been branded...even though an investigation occurred and the claims were considered to be unfounded.
So, here are the questions raised for me:
Dr. Ford's therapist states there were four males who assaulted her, and she claims the therapist was mistaken. In her letter to Feinstein , she says that the gathering included her and four others. In her opening statement , she says it was Brett, Mark, PJ and another boy whose name she couldn't recall. Also her friend Leland was there. (Dr. Ford does correct the number of attendees to include her friend later in questioning.) Can our memories be improved by questions such as these, or do we reshape our memories to fit the questions?
Dr. Ford stated that once her memories of the event were revealed to her husband in 2012, and later to friends...she knew that Kavanaugh might become a nominee for the Supreme Court one day. She could have contacted, after this memory recall, the FBI (for background investigation purposes) or anyone in Congress about a sitting Circuit Court of Appeals Judge to diminish the odds of nomination...so why didn't she? Certainly, a revelation prior to any nomination could have been sufficient to those reviewing backgrounds to cause hesitation.
In her opening statement she says that there was music playing in the bedroom and Brett and Mark turned up the music. During questioning, she stated that there wasn't any music or tv playing in the house. Don't you find it odd that there is no music at a gathering of drinking teens? Maybe there was...but she doesn't recall. A very small detail that she gave definitive answers to.
Dr. Ford Stated during questioning that she saw Mark Judge at the Potomac Village Safeway...and she said 'Hello' to him. This was 6 to 8 weeks after the incident according to Dr. Ford. I must admit, I cringed when I heard her say this. This was an alleged accomplice to an assault that took place a month and a half to two months previous and she speaks first? Her words weren't 'Hello ASSHOLE', or anything like that...just 'Hello'. As if what occurred wasn't a big deal. They didn't see each other often, but they were always friendly? Dr. Ford goes on to state that Mark Judge appeared uncomfortable.
When asked by Sen. Klobuchar about the incident and what she doesn't 'forget' about that night - Dr. Ford replies: "The stairwell, the living room, the bedroom, the bed on the right side of the room as you walk into the room. There was a bed to the right. The bathroom in close proximity, the laughter, the uproarious laughter, and the multiple attempts to escape and the final ability to do so." In that statement, she did not name Brett Kavanaugh nor did she name Mark Judge. There was an instance when being questioned by Sen. Leahy when she says, "I was, you know, underneath one of them while the two laughed, two friend - two friends having a really good time with one another." Were those two Brett Kavanaugh and Mark Judge? Who was on top of her? This is where I have serious questions - if one recalls with 100% accuracy exactly who an assailant is - why not use names?
There are other questions that arose...one being the fact that the Senate Committee was willing to go to California, yet Dr. Ford wasn't aware. There is the matter of the letter being leaked...and the media play in all of this before anything reaching members of the Committee - other than the Ranking Member who had knowledge of the alleged incident almost 7 weeks prior. So, the media and the attorney's (with the Ranking Member's blessings) riled up the voting public prior to the hearing...is it possible to ignore public opinion, or partisan opinion, and form a rational conclusion from any of this? She was 15. It was 36 years ago. Dr. Ford provides no corroboration. Did something happen? Maybe...but without corroboration, it is likely to become an 'unfounded' event.
Had any of this been heard in a court of law...the judge or jury would have to find the accused 'not guilty'. If this is indeed a sexual assault and attempted rape - file charges with the Montgomery County Police in Maryland. Playing it out in the media and putting it in the hands of politicians does nothing but victimize the accused and the accuser...regardless of what side of the fence you sit on.
Did you listen to Dr. Ford's testimony and walk away without any questions? If so, perhaps you can answer some of mine.
I listened intently to Dr Fords testimony, twice.
I came away with so many questions that the entirety of it has to be questioned as to not only veracity but to integrity.....
Not the least of which a 50+ year old woman, intelligent, tenured, university professor, Doctorate in Psychology type intellect, could get in front of many very intelligent tough men on the issue of sexual assault and act like a teeny bopper with the rehearsed testimony that pushes all the buttons, crying on cue, and surrender her dignity and credibility to those she obviously hates......
I know three women who were sexually assaulted in one form or another.... EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM remembers the details like it was yesterday..... And none of them have Dr Fords chops......
She is totally unbelievable.
I, unfortunately, am one that does not remember every single detail. It was a teenage 'prank' but can be considered an assault. I was 16 and was held as my bathing suit bottoms were removed. I was held by one guy while the other ripped them off and tossed them further into the bay - yes we were in the water so I wasn't completely naked. The faces of these two are blank. I couldn't tell you if they went to my school or not. The incident is vivid - the faces are not.
Lapses in memory are understandable and Dr. Ford's inability to remember some things is understandable...however, can we say without corroboration that Kavanaugh and Judge were the assailants, or that the incident occurred as she remembers?
The two gentlemen (I use the term in an extremely derogatory manner) should have their equipment removed and paraded around in public displaying such after the fact.
There is no excuse for such behavior. But, unfortunately, such behavior is common even today.
The three women I speak of are my wife, my oldest sister and a former co-worker I've known for decades.
The wife remembers it and the multiple men vividly, their names, their ages and where they were living at the time and what they did to her and a co-worker at a company party. (before I ever met her)
My sister doesn't remember who or even how many, but as to place and what they did, excruciatingly fine detail. (company barbecue)
My co-worker as well, she can recount the when where and who, her loss is in the what was done. (after hours party)
All three had physical evidence which made it plain what happened. (and alcohol was a prime ingredient in all of them)
The brain itself remembers but the psyche sometimes shuts off sections of memory for reasons unknown. That is the problem with Dr Ford, her brain, has shut off/out everything, she remembers nothing. She recounts what could best be described as a dream state.
Completely unbelievable.
I'm sorry you had to endure something like that. and yes lapses in memory in such cases are common. but that fact is the thing that destroys the integrity of the story, IMHO.
EVERYONE I know in a similar situation remembers something about it in absolute excruciating detail.
Dr Ford? nothing..... except a name......
I've never been sexually assaulted, but the timing of this, the lack of clarity and detail, but the ability to hit all the emotional buttons seems far too convenient to me. Addiitonally, the people that just know he's guilty of, well, it doesn't matter what he's guilty of, just that he's guilty........I just cannot buy into it. I don't think anyone that has any intellectual honesty can.
I'm not sure where people get the idea that this is a complicated situation.
1. Dr. Ford knew Brett Kavanaugh prior to the day of the alleged incident. She knew who he was and what he looked like. In 2012 she made it known publicly (to another) that Brett Kavanaugh had attacked her. This was 6 years before Kavanaugh was nominated to the Supreme Court. Subsequently, but still before Kavanaugh was nominated to the Supreme Court, Ford told a few other people that Kavanaugh had once attacked her.
2. What other people, with the exception of the three involved, remember or don't remember about the incident, which took place in an upstairs bedroom , and which the others did not see or hear, is virtually immaterial to the veracity of Ford's claim.
3. Numerous people say Kavanaugh was a drunk at times during high school, independent of Dr. Ford. There are also reports that people who knew Kavanaugh during this era say he could be belligerent after drinking too much.
4. Kavanaugh's yearbook suggests a lot of partying during his high school years, including suggestions of drinking and sexual activity he felt he should "brag" about.
5. He is accused of sexual misbehavior by two other women, both of which claim they have corroborating witnesses.
6. The idea that all this is encapsulated in a simple he said she said scenario is belied by the entirety of the picture. Couple with Kavanaugh's belligerent behavior in front of the committee, he has disqualified himself.
Let's go ahead and look at the big picture...an allegation has been made. That allegation has not been corroborated. That is, by definition, a 'He said - She said' scenario. The revelation of her memory 30 years after the alleged incident is not corroboration. Had she taken that revelation to authorities six years ago, it would have carried more weight.
Kavanaugh's behavior in front of the committee is understandable. I give him credit for facing a panel that contained a Ranking Member that knew, almost seven weeks prior, what was going to be unleashed upon him and his family. He isn't going to back down...and he certainly hasn't disqualified himself.
The other accusations are being played out in the press as well. One of them surely should be brought to the prosecutors in Montgomery County if it can be corroborated.
I do get it, John. The picture you speak of - the desire to see that Kavanaugh isn't seated on the Supreme Court. That picture was clear the day he was nominated. In the 11th hour, the leak to the press occurs.
The revelation of Dr. Ford's allegation should have prompted an investigation that maintained confidentiality...instead, we were all subject to underhanded politics...and two families are forever marred.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the hearing last week .. sorry for what you went through cms5 ..
I had so many questions after the hearing was completed (still do) .. for a professor, Ford came across as naïve and ill informed .. The offer of a private meeting in California was in the news - was she sequestered while rehearsing her testimony? she should sue her pro bono lawyer for forcing her into a public hearing...
No memory of the day, whatsoever - not before the assault or after, but knows she was attacked and who did it....
If only she [Ford] could get the information of when Mark Judge worked at Safeway, she could then give more accurate details.. ? .. if the FBI would investigate, they can fill in her blanks for her?
Being a survivor myself, I want(ed) to believe Dr. Blasey .. I cannot say she is lieing .. but I question the lack of at least knowing how she got to a party where she was assaulted …. I cannot shake the feeling that she is leaving out details to protect someone .. no clue why I feel that way.... just do
I am sorry to hear that you too have suffered sexual abuse.
The fact that she can't remember some things is understandable. Can we trust the memories that seem to be vivid? Has the incident been altered over 30 years? Without corroboration, we will probably never know.
We're left with more questions instead of answers.
Most likely not, and Ford knows this as a Professor of Psychology .. her memories could be from a movie she saw, or collected from stories she has heard from students .. and said memories can be convincing to oneself... Those coming forward with claims against Kavanaugh could be remembering anyone, or no one - the memories may not even be their own....
I watched something last night that was talking about memories and their malleability each time they are spoken of .. even the way an attorney asks a question can lead to a false recollection of a memory .. so to the search engine I went .. here is a couple article I found .. I will check the DVR and see if I deleted the program I watched...
Good articles.
Her Attorney's should have hired a professional therapist trained specifically to ask sexual abuse victims non-leading or suggestive questions. That would have carried far more weight than a polygraph.
Agreed .. the reasoning behind the polygraph blurs the lines … by asking a question in a manner that the individual can honestly answer .. anyone can pass .. learned that in 101 level psychology classes in college - but now I am discovering that by asking the questions in such a way .. can alter the memory. (thinking I should have paid closer attention, or perhaps took additional classes - I got my requirements in and left the psychology department quickly : )
I am not a big believer in therapy .. but I do know that various techniques I learned in counseling [such as journaling] does make a difference, by being able to return to those thoughts and feelings - for real for real .. I do not have calendars, but I have date / appointment books that I made notes on most everything .. who was there, with a quick note on what we did ….. those date books are more accurate than my memory : )
You're right! When we can turn to written (including digital) accounts - it helps our memories. Had Dr. Ford provided a journal with an entry near the date of the incident - that would serve as corroboration. All of the questions would have been answered and we wouldn't be having this conversation now. ; )
Aww but but .. if all the answers were in print .. there would not be a need for all the speculation and divisiveness .. what fun would that be?
I have mixed feelings, but based on what 'we' know, no guilt can be determined
I've visited the Senate Judiciary Committee's website and found the timeline waved about in the hearing. Just to get a better perspective as to what the heck they were thinking by this public display.
Monday, Sept. 17 - Dr. Ford's counsel appears on morning shows saying her client wants public hearing to tell her story.
This, to me, explains many of her Attorney's actions.
Interesting, thanks for the information ..
Appears to me Ford got pushed into a public hearing in order to make a spectacle of her memories .. think I would be suing that attorney ..
Did you see Ford's attorney in the background of Kavanaugh's testimony? He did not have an overly confident look on his face .. from my view point
I did see both attorneys in the background. I'm sure they were there 'representing' their client.
Dr. Ford wanted to remain anonymous...and then she wanted a very public hearing. So, this is yet another inconsistency that raises questions, or she allowed her attorneys to push her into the public hearing. Did she really not know about the committee's offer to go to California?
There in lies the rub …' if' Ford did not know about the committee's offer - what does that say ..? definitely is a what does that say about her 2 attorneys.
Christine Blasey Ford is seemingly a highly regarded Professor - why would she allow herself to be manipulated? That I do not understand .. as I said before she came across as naïve and ill informed - yet well prepared with the points that 'needed' to be hammered home...
I read earlier that another women has come forward anonymously as a 3rd, possibly 4th party witness (?) to Kavanaugh's sexual aggressiveness …………………… 1998 I think was the year .. a letter from a mom about one of her daughters friends having dated Kavanaugh .. and her daughter was witness - I read an incomplete breaking news thingy - I am sure there is more information now on this newest claim..
with no intent on sounding flippant, or dismissive …. I am thinking one should not be making these types of accusations anonymously - this is some serious shit being claimed .. these individuals need to buckle up for the ride, not make claims and then hide in the corner....
Neither of which have anything to do with how memory is processed due to a sexual assault where a "fight or flight" reaction is triggered.
But it's not surprising at all that such deflections and misdirections have commonly been used by those who defend rapists - including Paul McHugh whose "professional" testimony was used by the Catholic hierarchy to avoid liability for many victims they knew were definitely telling the truth.
No, the articles are not pointed directly at sexual assault or the 'fight or flight' instinct. Instead, the articles point to the malleability of memories. Are you suggesting that a sexual abuse victim facing the 'fight or flight' instinct has the ability to recall exactly what happened, or that memories that they believe are vivid are not malleable?
Can you provide links as to what the fight or flight response has to do with memory? I read multiple articles this morning regarding the fight or flight response, and none indicated that memory was impacted..
Thanks, much appreciated
P.s... since I posted the links to the articles .. does that make me a defender of a rapist?
Geez....Ford even discussed this in her testimony a bit but apparently none of the folks here understood what she was talking about. Here are some relevant articles:
See the links at 5.1.13 and educate yourself.
I read your links and will now provide a some for you. Will you read them?
Dr. Ford was seeing a therapist when she first revealed her assault. As reported by the Washington Post - That therapist recorded that there were four men who assaulted her. Dr. Ford stated that the therapist made an error. There were four boys at the gathering, Two assaulted her. Did the therapist really make an error ?
Dr. Ford referred to struggling with anxiety and PTSD in the Washington Post article and in her testimony before the SJC.
Memories are not 100% accurate. Memories are malleable - even those of a 'fight or flight' nature.
Thanks for the links Skrekk, I am well aware of the brains reaction to fight or flight .. what does it have to do with the malleability of memory?
No individuals memory, not even one that has been assaulted is completely accurate, although I have what I consider complete recollection of the 'day' I was attacked, not just the attack itself .. when I speak (rarely) about what happened, I have to slow down, because it is easy to mix up the order of events and I will have flashes that I am never certain is a memory of that event, or some other event ... perhaps since Ford cannot recall anything else about that day - her memory is infallible?
I will be glad to put these old events out of my head .. I can honestly say that coming forward from the start is apparently very liberating - as I am not haunted by my memories ..
You and I are not going to agree on this subject .. as our views differ on most things... that is okay isn't it? I once avoiding discussion with you on the site, now I appreciate the input...
Peace
What does your reference to Daredevil have to do with anything? You're acting like it's a valid rebuttal and it's just a scripted scenario.
Find a different leg … Thanks
I knew you and Misty were joking about me and the leg humpers. I see right through you.
I never hump anyone's leg dear. I leave that up to the gop and their supporters.
Sorry for all that have bared their souls and troubles here.
I do believe that Ms. Fords recollections of the event could possibly be addled by the trauma incurred. It is not unusual for victims of such traumatic incidents to suffer segmented lapses.
I have no doubt as to Ms. Fords integrity and belief that this played out as She stated, but as others have mentioned the actual truth may never come out. But in the meantime two lives have been forever ruined over politics, both have been used as pawns.
See the links at 5.1.13. Here's are two relevant quotes:
.
I can attest to, as a member of a 5 sibling family, not one of us remembers our family life the same. We even look at each other at times and say: "How could you not remember that".
OR
"WTF are you talking about" !
Ain't being human great ?