And even in the Israeli health system segregation does not only take place along Jewish-Arab divides. In 2012 the Health Ministry ordered hospitals across the country to put African asylum seekers into isolation. That was after Tel Aviv’s Sourasky Medical Center was found to be implementing far purely racist isolation policies.

MK Bezalel Smotrich (Jewish Home), a member of the ruling coalition,  tweeted out  a particularly racist diatribe in defense of the maternity ward segregation on Tuesday.

After claiming that Arab families are louder than Jewish families after giving birth, the hyper-nationalist and admittedly homophobic lawmaker added: “it is natural for my wife to not want to lie next to somebody who just gave birth to a baby that might want to murder her baby in 20 years. That’s the most natural, normal thing in the world.”

An Israeli wrote the article, and the story also appeared on Israeli Public Radio.

iba.il

An Israeli wrote the article, and the story also appeared on Israeli Public Radio.

Good point-- thank you for sharing that! 

Yet another example of the difference between the freedom of press in Israel-- and that of its neighbours! 

(Try publishing something critical like that in Palestinian-ruled Gaza and see what happens to you!)

(Try publishing something critical like that in Palestinian-ruled Gaza and see what happens to you!)

Is Gaza, Israel? Is it Somalia? How about is it Hungry? Or maybe Russia? How about that making it irrelevant.

John,

I have a real issue with your source. Here is what it says:

+972 Magazine is a blog-based web magazine that is jointly owned by a group of journalists, bloggers and photographers whose goal is to provide fresh, original, on-the-ground reporting and analysis of events in Israel and Palestine. Our collective is committed to human rights and freedom of information, and we oppose the occupation. However, +972 Magazine does not represent any organization, political party or specific agenda.

Kind of a hint of their agenda even though they say that they have none, which is kind of funny. 

So what?

But that is why I doublechecked the story through the article from Israeli Public Radio.

iba.il

Why did you even seed it John???  It has no impact on folks in the U. S. - unless they have relatives over there and, if they do, they sure as hell aren't on NT.

Wasted space.

It was in the news today. 

Most of what is seeded here is meaningful only to a few people. 

1st. I'm not unhappy that John seeded that story. It did give me the opportunity to clarify some things that were alluded to, and besides, in Israel there is no muffling the media as there is in the Arab countries, so it is proof that Israel is a true democracy with freedom of speech and expression and human rights are considered important - not like a lot of other places.

Why did you even seed it John???  It has no impact on folks in the U. S.

So, has the policy changed? Are we no longer allowed to publish articles from overseas? Only articles from the U.S. Press are allowed now? Show me the CoC change please?

I think they have investigative reporting in Israel just as we have in the US and elsewhere. I know racism exists in Israel, just as ethnic bigotry exists in many places. We hardly ever hear about it in the US though. I guess Israel is a foreign country, and we don't hear much about racism in Europe and other places either.

Not all other countries portray themselves in the pure way that some portray Israel though.

Not all other countries portray themselves in the pure way that some portray Israel though.

John, you must be kidding right... otherwise you are illogical. This information came from Israeli publications. How is that portraying Israel as pure?

And for the record Here is a more accurate version of the story:

 A firestorm of controversy erupted on Tuesday after Bayit Yehudi MK Bezalel Smotrich responded to an Israel Radio report by backing Jewish women who reportedly requested to be separated from Arab women in the maternity ward of some hospitals.

The radio reported on Tuesday that various hospitals around the country have been separating Jewish and Arab women in the maternity ward.

Smotrich tweeted a reaction to the report saying, “After giving birth, my wife wants to rest and not have a party like Arab women do after giving birth.”

In another tweet, he said, “It is natural that my wife would not want to lay down next to someone who just gave birth to a baby might want to murder her baby in another 20 years.”

Smotrich said that the alleged hostility of Jewish women who give birth toward Arab women is natural and understandable because of what he termed the blood feud between the two peoples.

He also told Israel Radio that the Arabs of Israel, although they have equal rights, traitorously are supporting our enemies that attack us.

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog (Zionist Union) blasted Smotrich on Facebook, saying the MK “does not care if people get a taste of racism.

A baby born is pure, he does not know hatred. He should get a hug, warmth and love from the first moments in the world. Not racism.

“We do not agree that hospitals should separate between Jews and Arabs in the maternity ward. We will not allow this despicable separation between people,” he said.

Joint List MK and Ta’al party chairman Ahmad Tibi shared with The Jerusalem Post a letter he wrote to Health Minister Ya’acov Litzman on Tuesday, stating, “We request that you examine all of the hospitals in the country in order to stop this terrible practice. It cannot be allowed to surrender to the bad spirits that blow all over the country.”

Zionist Union MK Zouheir Bahloul responded to Smotrich’s comments saying, “With such views, the road to hell is short.”

According to the Bayit Yehudi MK, he said, “every Arab is a potential terrorist, and at minimum, are not legitimate members of Israeli society.”

While the Health Ministry bans such moves, the report said the calls for separation in the obstetrics and gynecology department come at the request of the maternity patients, to which the hospitals then comply.

The medical centers where the issue occurs, according to the report, are: Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, Hadassah- University Medical Center in Jerusalem’s Ein Kerem and on the capital’s Mount Scopus, along with Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv and Meir Medical Center in Kfar Saba.

The report added that all of the hospitals denied any such division among patients.

However, some of the medical centers noted that if the patient makes such a request, it is taken into consideration, as are other appeals.

Among the hospitals surveyed, only Soroka University Medical Center in Beersheba and Haifa’s Rambam Medical Center said that separation between patients in the maternity ward is not possible.

The Health Ministry reacted to the Israel Radio report of “segregation” of Jewish and Arab mothers in a number of hospitals, saying it “prohibits all separation as a result of discrimination. The ministry’s instructions are not to separate any types of populations, not according to religion, country of origin, communities or any other criteria.”

People with experience in a variety of hospitals note that mothers sometimes ask to be separated from “noisy” ethnic and Jewish religious groups that have large families who come to visit, which is a reason why some wards appear to segregate.

The Hadassah Medical Organization, whose medical center on Mount Scopus was mentioned as one of the hospitals where Jewish women allegedly request separate rooms, stated on Tuesday that both it and the Hadassah-University Medical Center’s Ein Kerem campus are “proud that they are symbols of coexistence in every department and unit, both in the human mix of the medical and nursing staff and patients.”

“The quality of medicine ...

attracts whole communities from different countries, from different cultural and religious backgrounds.

They are all welcomed by Hadassah with a hug and empathy, excellent medical care and wonderful hospitalization conditions,” the HMO said.

“As a result, Hadassah’s policy is to mix different groups, including mothers, and this is visible throughout the hospitals. The medical teams are, of course, attentive to the needs of patients and especially to new mothers, as it sees giving birth as not being a disease.

It ensures that the birth experience will be a wonderful thing.”

Meanwhile, Kfar Saba deputy mayor Ilai Harsegor Hendin sent a harsh letter to the city’s Meir Medical Center after it was reported that Arab and Jewish new mothers are being separated in the wards after they deliver. He said that such “segregation remind us of periods in history that we don’t want to return to, and there is no professional justification for separation on the basis of ethnic or religious background.”

He added that Meir is “a bridge among peoples who live in Israel.

One meets patients, families and staff of all backgrounds. The babies born in the obstetrics department don’t know if they are Arab or Jew; they are human beings who will grow up in a world that we have created for them. We will decide if it is one of racism, hatred or discrimination, or a world that is going to a better place.”

jpost

Look, lets be reasonable here.  just because someone goes out of their way to demonize Israel & obsesses about anything pertaining Jews, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're necessarily "anti-Semitic".

Fuck off Krishna. 

Fuck off Krishna

Thank you for sharing! 

 just as ethnic bigotry exists in many places. We hardly ever hear about it in the US though

WTF?

Speak for yourself, white boy!

 just as ethnic bigotry exists in many places. We hardly ever hear about it in the US though

WTF?

Speak for yourself, white boy!

You don't understand what was said. You truncated the first of those sentences to create a false conclusion. Get lost Krish. 

Why does almost every one of your comments end with a personal attack?

Curious minds want to know!

An Israeli wrote the article, and the story also appeared on Israeli Public Radio.

The article also appeared in Haartz is an ultra liberal, israeli paper. They often have anti israel/ israeli articles and often used by people who want to find an issue with Israel. Strange how they didn't report this: 

n nearly two and a half years, around 2,000 Syrians have been admitted to Israeli hospitals. While the vast majority are male — up to 90 percent at Ziv, the hospital closest to the border — there are women, too, and 17 percent of all patients are children.

There are the very old, and the very new: At least 10 Syrian babies have been born at Ziv alone since Syrians began arriving in February 2013.

Word has spread that Syrians can access medical help over the border from people they've long believed are the enemy. Medics say more patients, and less urgent cases, are filling the beds of publicly-funded Israeli hospitals. As these patients flow in, questions are being raised about the ethics of filling a hospital's limited beds with Syrians — and how comfortable Israelis are helping their old enemy so close to home.

news.vice

BTW, that is from VICE, which is american liberal new source. At least they don't have an obvious agenda.

Are you going to Israel to have your baby John?

No, are you?

No, are you?

Love to. Some of the absolute best doctors, nurses and medical know-how are to be found in Israeli hospitals!

I thought John wanted to go to Gaza for maternity care ...

Most of the hospitals here are going for private maternity rooms.  Maybe the Israelis are, too...  Then, there is no worry about segregation...

John,

Here is a more realistic view of Israeli hospitals:

Crossing Religious Lines in an Israeli Hospital

nytimes

I didnt see the name of the hospital in the NYT story listed in the other story , one way or the other.

I am sure that whatever the discrimination is, it is not everywhere.

I am sure that whatever the discrimination is, it is not everywhere.

Discrimination? Or is it?

Here's what you are totally missing:

If, in some cases, Arab women are separated from Jewish women, the fact is that it would only be "discrimination" if the Arab woman is placed in an inferior facility and/or receives less adequate care.

The Arab-Israeli conflict has been going on for years-- decades, if not longer. its been long & bitter and many on both sides have suffered greatly. So not surprisingly there is mistrust of the other side by many. So it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a Jewish woman might not want to be in the same room as an Arab women (what sort of people might her visiting relatives be like? Perhaps one might be a suicide bomber-- if so it wouldn't be the first time). And likewise, if an Arab woman wanted to be separated from a Jewish woman-- well, IMNSHO she has every right to ask for that. And in neither case would it be discrimination per se-- if the facilites were not inferior.

Unless you know a lot about their history-- and have actually been there-- its hard to understand the situation.

If, in some cases, Arab women are separated from Jewish women, the fact is that it would only be "discrimination" if the Arab woman is placed in an inferior facility and/or receives less adequate care.

Separate, but equal huh? Seems to me that argument was tried with schools in the US at one time.

Jerusalem Post - Apr 5, 2016

A firestorm of controversy erupted on Tuesday after Bayit Yehudi MK Bezalel Smotrich responded to an Israel Radio report by backing Jewish women who reportedly requested to be separated from Arab women in the maternity ward of some hospitals.

The radio reported on Tuesday that various hospitals around the country have been separating Jewish and Arab women in the maternity ward.

Smotrich tweeted a reaction to the report saying, “After giving birth, my wife wants to rest and not have a party like Arab women do after giving birth.”

In another tweet, he said, “It is natural that my wife would not want to lay down next to someone who just gave birth to a baby might want to murder her baby in another 20 years.”

Smotrich said that the alleged hostility of Jewish women who give birth toward Arab women is natural and understandable because of what he termed the blood feud between the two peoples.

He also told Israel Radio that the Arabs of Israel, although they have equal rights, traitorously are supporting our enemies that attack us.

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog (Zionist Union) blasted Smotrich on Facebook, saying the MK “does not care if people get a taste of racism.

A baby born is pure, he does not know hatred. He should get a hug, warmth and love from the first moments in the world. Not racism.

“We do not agree that hospitals should separate between Jews and Arabs in the maternity ward. We will not allow this despicable separation between people,” he said.

Joint List MK and Ta’al party chairman Ahmad Tibi shared with The Jerusalem Post a letter he wrote to Health Minister Ya’acov Litzman on Tuesday, stating, “We request that you examine all of the hospitals in the country in order to stop this terrible practice. It cannot be allowed to surrender to the bad spirits that blow all over the country.”

Zionist Union MK Zouheir Bahloul responded to Smotrich’s comments saying, “With such views, the road to hell is short.”

According to the Bayit Yehudi MK, he said, “every Arab is a potential terrorist, and at minimum, are not legitimate members of Israeli society.”

While the Health Ministry bans such moves, the report said the calls for separation in the obstetrics and gynecology department come at the request of the maternity patients, to which the hospitals then comply.

The medical centers where the issue occurs, according to the report, are: Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem, Hadassah- University Medical Center in Jerusalem’s Ein Kerem and on the capital’s Mount Scopus, along with Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv and Meir Medical Center in Kfar Saba.

The report added that all of the hospitals denied any such division among patients.

However, some of the medical centers noted that if the patient makes such a request, it is taken into consideration, as are other appeals.

Among the hospitals surveyed, only Soroka University Medical Center in Beersheba and Haifa’s Rambam Medical Center said that separation between patients in the maternity ward is not possible.

The Health Ministry reacted to the Israel Radio report of “segregation” of Jewish and Arab mothers in a number of hospitals, saying it “prohibits all separation as a result of discrimination. The ministry’s instructions are not to separate any types of populations, not according to religion, country of origin, communities or any other criteria.”

People with experience in a variety of hospitals note that mothers sometimes ask to be separated from “noisy” ethnic and Jewish religious groups that have large families who come to visit, which is a reason why some wards appear to segregate.

The Hadassah Medical Organization, whose medical center on Mount Scopus was mentioned as one of the hospitals where Jewish women allegedly request separate rooms, stated on Tuesday that both it and the Hadassah-University Medical Center’s Ein Kerem campus are “proud that they are symbols of coexistence in every department and unit, both in the human mix of the medical and nursing staff and patients.”

“The quality of medicine ...

attracts whole communities from different countries, from different cultural and religious backgrounds.

They are all welcomed by Hadassah with a hug and empathy, excellent medical care and wonderful hospitalization conditions,” the HMO said.

“As a result, Hadassah’s policy is to mix different groups, including mothers, and this is visible throughout the hospitals. The medical teams are, of course, attentive to the needs of patients and especially to new mothers, as it sees giving birth as not being a disease.

It ensures that the birth experience will be a wonderful thing.”

Meanwhile, Kfar Saba deputy mayor Ilai Harsegor Hendin sent a harsh letter to the city’s Meir Medical Center after it was reported that Arab and Jewish new mothers are being separated in the wards after they deliver. He said that such “segregation remind us of periods in history that we don’t want to return to, and there is no professional justification for separation on the basis of ethnic or religious background.”

He added that Meir is “a bridge among peoples who live in Israel.

One meets patients, families and staff of all backgrounds. The babies born in the obstetrics department don’t know if they are Arab or Jew; they are human beings who will grow up in a world that we have created for them. We will decide if it is one of racism, hatred or discrimination, or a world that is going to a better place.”

Israel is no different than any other western democratic nation that allows freedom of speech and expression. You are going to find examples of racial discrimination everywhere - and as is made clear in the Jerusalem Post article, there are going to be differing attitudes, but at least the official policies are just, especially as compared with certain other nations.

I dont know all of Israels offcial policies, but I believe you are largely correct

-  the stories do indicate that the official policies of Israel are to not have segregation in hospitals, so i agree with you about that

-  the stories do indicate that the official policies of Israel are to not have segregation in hospitals

So then, what was your purpose in seeding this article?

Curious minds want to know!!!

Krish, the United States has an official policy against racism, our civil rights laws. They do not prevent racism. 

Because Israel may have a policy against such segregation does not mean that it doesn't happen. 

I don't have to justify seeding this article, it appears to be a big news story in Israel. 

I predicted that everyone who came on here would complain about the article, none on its merits, and that is just what happened. This is a very pro-Israel site , even in the face of negative information. 

TLTR!

I wonder how many of you who are commenting on this article have actually been in an Israeli hospital. For two years after my retirement from law I was the Director of Development (fundraiser) for the Canadian charity supporting Laniado Hospital in Netanya, Israel. To prepare me for my duties I was flown to Israel and given a comprehensive tour of the hospital and had the opportunity to interview the staff, both Jewish and Arab Muslim. It is an Orthodox Jewish hospital and the staff was a complete mix whether they were doctors, nurses, technicians, management, etc. As well, I interviewed patients, who were in wards where Arabs and Israelis lay in beds IN THE SAME ROOMS. On Jewish holidays, and every week on the Sabbath, the hospital is run totally by Arab staff and I heard no complaints about that.

It was almost immediately after the "Passover Massacre" (When an Arab suicide bomber blew up a large gathering of whole families celebrating a Passover seder) that I was there. I saw the devastation of the Reception room in the Park Hotel in which the seder was held. Netanya Hospital had to deal with most of the victims, and the experience was described to me by an Arab doctor who teared up when he spoke of it. In the room where patients sat in lounge chairs receiving injections for kidney ailments Arabs and Jews sat side by side, even carrying on conversations between them.

Although I saw the Maternity ward I was not aware of segregation there. It could have been but I was unable to notice it and there certainly was no reason to think of it considering the complete integration throughout the hospital.

In any event, I recommend to anyone who is critical of Israel to actually go and see, rather than gather their experience from sources that they know damn well are probably biased.

Buzz, everyone cannot travel all over the world to personally verify news stories. I feel quite confident in saying very few people do.

You take people's (news stories) word for what you think the migrants in Europe are doing, without personally going there, don't you?

Well, John, I'm telling you what I saw and learned, but you don't have to believe me.

Yes, I take FlyNavy's word and my stepdaughter's word for what is happening in Germany. As well I have watched videos and seen interviews with people on the streets. I see lots of reports and photos about the Paris and Belgian terrorism and for some reason, John, I don't think that life is so beautiful there, but you can whitewash it if you wish. Although I have been to Israel more than once, during times when suicide bombings were more common, and I have been to a number of European countries but more than 40 years ago, I do not now intend to go there to be a random victim of terrorism if I happen to be in an airport or delicatessen.

If Palestinian women don't like this segregation they can go to a Palestinian hospital to give birth ... if there were any . Why do you suppose there are none ?

If Palestinian women don't like this segregation they can go to a Palestinian hospital to give birth ... if there were any . Why do you suppose there are none ?

Actually there's a big hospital in Gaza City. If memory serves, during the last war, Hamas cunningly set up their command post directly under the hospital. (And of course they use hospitals and schools to store their rockets in.

Sounds ideal for rest & recovery ...

Hamas cunningly set up their command post directly under the hospital.

Allegedly.

Allegedly?

Oh, come on, Randy, don't let your dark glasses and hatred of Likud and Netanyahu blind you to reality.

dailymail.co.uk

investigativeproject

mfa.il

algemeiner

todaychristian

My eyes are wide open. As far as I am concerned Bibi and Likud are in the same category as Hamas. The only exception is that they have a more sophisticated army and they think they have enough respectability to literately get away with murder. Other then that I see no difference between the two. One is state sponsored terrorism and the other is Hamas.

I addressed your use of the word "allegedly" and you neatly sidestepped admitting you were wrong to use it by reiterating your hatred for Bibi and Likud. So be it. It's not worth making an issue over that.

I side-stepped nothing. It's still allegedly to me.

And you brought up Bibi and Likud.

Okay, just keep wearing those almost oblique glasses then.

They're prescription and I see just fine through them.

impass. I'm not going jeopardize our friendship.

impasse

If Palestinian women don't like this segregation they can go to a Palestinian hospital to give birth ... if there were any . Why do you suppose there are none ?

Actually there's a big hospital in Gaza City. If memory serves, during the last war, Hamas cunningly set up their command post directly under the hospital. (And of course they use hospitals and schools to store their rockets in).

And speaking of hospitals available to Palestinians, I remember the field hospital Israel set up on its border with Gaza-- for the purpose of treating wounded Palestinian.  Not surprisingly, it didn't get much coverage in the media (guess why). So I had to look for the story. Interesting stuff-- it reveals a lot about the difference between the israeli mindset and that of the Palestinians:

On Gaza border, an Israeli field hospital stands empty EreZ CROSSING, Northern Gaza Strip — The canvas banners dotting Israeli highways adjacent to the Gaza Strip tell the story of the public mood these days. “Steadfast in the home front — victorious on the front,” reads one sign. Another asserts that “Together we will win. On July 21, the IDF opened a military field hospital in the enormous border terminal, meant to provide emergency treatment for civilians injured in Gaza and unable to seek medical care in the Strip’s failing medical installations. Two weeks later, the Government Press Office invited a busload of foreign journalists to view the hospital for the first time, striving to show the efforts of the Israeli army to protect Palestinian civilians’ lives.

With a permanent staff of 20 doctors, nurses and medics on location, the Erez field hospital boasts advanced resuscitation equipment, a delivery room, a pharmacy, and lab services. Specialists include a pediatrician, an ophthalmologist and a gynecologist. Yet despite the apparent eagerness of the Israeli professionals to treat Palestinians in need, on Friday the hospital was completely empty.

One would expect more activity in the state-of-the-art field hospital, given the high number of injured Palestinians just kilometers away in Gaza’s understaffed and under-equipped hospitals. Biton said the primary force keeping Palestinians away was Hamas. We know that the enemy is preventing people from coming here,” he said. Gaza health ministry officials were not immediately available for comment.

The few patients who did arrive at Erez were either picked up by IDF fighting units in the field, or referred by UNRWA or the Red Cross. A 75-year-old woman was left behind by her fleeing family in Khan Younis and brought to Erez in a state of dehydration and fatigue by Israeli soldiers. A 21-year-old man arrived in serious condition with shrapnel in his lung. Both were referred to Israeli hospitals.

“Our capabilities await the residents of the Gaza Strip to come and receive medical treatment,” said Lt. Col. Rachel Mezan, chief nurse of the Medical Corps and head of the field hospital. “We are very experienced in this type of mission. We set the hospital up quickly and adapt to the changing needs. In some cases we’ve definitely managed to save lives.”

And here's the key point:

One would expect more activity in the state-of-the-art field hospital, given the high number of injured Palestinians just kilometers away in Gaza’s understaffed and under-equipped hospitals. Biton said the primary force keeping Palestinians away was Hamas. 

We know that the enemy is preventing people from coming here,” he said. Gaza health ministry officials were not immediately available for comment.

Let's go to the videotape:

I wonder how many other countries at war with a neighbour who wished to murder them would do anything like this? (IMO its also interesting how the hospital went relatively unused).

A few other interesting points:

As you can see, we can assemble it in no time

Why is that important? Well, they have a lot of experience as a result of several wars with Arabs, in which the goal was to exterminate the Jews. As Israel won all the wars, often they ended occupying huge swaths of Arab territory (almost all of it they later left, so control was returned to the Arabs).

But before they left, they needed local hospitals--so they learned how to build them quickly and efficiently. They are probably the best in the world at doing this).

Under the oath of the  medial corps we swear to give treatment to every human being as a human being

And its true-- in fact, they even given treated both soldiers and civilians from regional conflicts-- those people being from countries that are the enemy (i.e. still formerly at war with Israel. Compare that with how the Palestinians-- and in fact other Arab states-- treat wounded POWS... and even civilians).

One might wonder why such facts are ignored by the media. Could it be that it is so difficult for them to tell the truth when it is a positive story about Israel? And yet there are those who deny that such could be anti-Semitism. It is no wonder there is so much hatred of the Israeli government and leader - they only see one side of the story, the side that the Palestinians insist be told.

But before they left, they needed local hospitals--so they learned how to build them quickly and efficiently. They are probably the best in the world at doing this).

Exactly! 

The "Zionist entity" (as it's known in the Arab world) has some of the highest quality medical care in the world-- and they have been helping out the needy all around the world for years. 

And when help is needed, they arrive quickly.

Remember the crisis in Haiti? Well, once again the "evil Zionists" took u the challenge. Let's go to the videotape:

This article is relevant to the Antisemites.

Note the "alleged" goose-stepping of those (not anti-Semitic!) Nazi soldiers. They are often mislabeled, the poor dears.

Sure they're bigots those Nazis-- but what those evil goose-steppers really are is "anti-avis" , not anti-Semitic. (And I'm not talking rent-a-car here..if ya catch my drift!!!)

This article is relevant to the Antisemites.

Note the "alleged" goose-stepping of those (not anti-Semitic!) Nazi soldiers. They are often mislabeled, the poor dears.

Sure they're bigots those Nazis-- but what those evil goose-steppers really are is "anti-avis" , not anti-Semitic. (And I'm not talking rent-a-car here..if ya catch my drift!!!)

(AVIS: Discombobulation)

FAUX AVIS :

(Diagram #1):

(Diagram #2):

TRUE AVIS

(Diagram #1a):

(Diagram #2a):

At this point I want to thank John for posting this article. For me, it's been a lot of fun reading the comments and posting my own on this topic probably because I have some experience with the issue. Contrary to John's opinion about Krishna, I enjoy his wit and ability to expose and ridicule bullshit comments.

However, it's time to move on to other interests and issues.

bye