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Did internalised homophobia spark Orlando nightclub attack?

  

Category:  Mental Health and Wellness

Via:  community  •  8 years ago  •  48 comments

Did internalised homophobia spark Orlando nightclub attack?






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Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy    8 years ago

While I'm still waiting for the official investigation to be concluded, there does seem to be some strong indications that Mateen was a self-loathing gay man. He was raised in a hyper-religious environment (not unlike some of the more fundamentalist Christian churches) and taught that homosexuals deserved to die. It says this in both the Koran and the Bible. Yet if he was in fact gay, this would have caused an extreme conflict in himself about his own sexuality.

As I said, I'm still waiting for the official investigation to be finished, but there do seem to be many indications that this was much more a hate crime against the LGBT community by a sexually repressed gay man who simply could not come to a way to resolve what he was taught all of his life and what he himself felt inside. In this case I believe the Muslim religion comes into play only in that it caused him to hate himself to the point where it brought on a murderous mental illness.

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce    8 years ago

It says this in both the Koran and the Bible.

Where specifically in the Bible?  More to the point, where specifically does it command Christians to kill homosexuals?

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

Leviticus 20:13

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Ah yes.  Leviticus.  What do you know about the book of Leviticus Randy?  And how it pertains to Christians?

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

I report, you decide.

I do know that whenever so-called Christians want to condemn homosexuality the first book they reach for is Leviticus.

Asked and answered. Goodbye Bruce.

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

You're avoiding Randy.  Not nice.

I'll give you a Bible lesson.

Leviticus was written during the period of Moses, Between the time of the arrival at Mt Sinai and their departure.  It is an instruction to the Priests, and Israelites on their conduct while building the Holy Tent Sanctuary, and their encampment around the sanctuary.

Notice that I asked for the specific place in the Bible where it commands Christians to kill homosexuals.  The reason I phrased it that way is because Christianity is based primarily on the New Testament, and the teachings of Christ.  While Christians DO study the Old Testament, their doctrine is based on what Christ taught Christians. 

The commandment of Leviticus to kill homosexuals does not apply to Christians because that commandment was not given to Christians.  It was given to the Israelites. 

The reason it doesn't apply to Christians is because the basis for Christianity is that Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross.  ALL the sins of the Old Testament were paid for on the cross.  That doesn't mean that all sins go away.  It means the punishment for the sin was a burden of Christ.  No where in the New Testament does Christ teach us to kill anyone for any sin. 

Yes, Christians still study the Old Testament.  They do so for a better understanding of the New Testament.  But the true Christian knows that the penalties for sin were paid for by Christ, and that believing in Christ, and in his teachings will wash our sins away.

Believe what you want.  But nowhere in the Bible does it command Christians to kill homosexuals.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

Well said. I've had to explain that multiple times, but certain folks won't learn for some reason...

 
 
 
ArkansasHermit
Freshman Silent
link   ArkansasHermit  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

You beat me to it Randy.

Leviticus 20:13

  • KJV : (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

 

Also from your link;

Over the last few centuries, most Christians and Jews have rejected Leviticus 20:13.  They no longer call on the death penalty for homosexuals. Only Christian Reconstructionists and a few Christian hate groups wish to revert to mass executions of gays and lesbians today.

Good thing radicals from any & all faiths have a hard time making laws in our country.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  ArkansasHermit   8 years ago

You beat me to it Randy.

LOL! It's a common line of BS here so I'm always ready for it.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
link   Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Randy   8 years ago

must have missed this little titty-bit at the bottom of your own link to Leviticus

 

Over the last few centuries, most Christians and Jews have rejected Leviticus 20:13.  They no longer call on the death penalty for homosexuals. Only Christian Reconstructionists and a few Christian hate groups wish to revert to mass executions of gays and lesbians today.

 

so Christian reconstructionists and Christian hate groups , I think they mean like westboro Baptists the nutbutters

  so its been being rejected by mainstream Christian for  few( few , 4-6?) CENTURIES(  a century is 100 years) so that particular book of the old testimate has been ignored  and rejected  for 400 to 600 years .

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Mark in Wyoming   8 years ago

That doesn't change the fact that when even mainstream Christians want to condemn homosexuality they reach for Leviticus to do so. They are very selective in which parts of it that they choose to use.

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Sure.  Because it is defined as a sin there.  But they also follow up with Paul's letter to the Christians in Corinth (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) and his letter to the Christians in Rome (Romans 1:26-28).  In those letters he confirms the sin.  But he never tells the Christians to kill homosexuals.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

I have never, ever seen that happen. Whenever I have seen even mainstream Christians and churches condemn homosexuality it is always Leviticus, period. I have once seen them ever follow up with any parts of the New Testament at all. Ever. It simply does not happen.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
link   Nowhere Man  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Cause you only pay attention to the radicals and nutcases to justify your own beliefs.

You truly ignore mainstream Christianity cause it doesn't fit your belief model.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Nowhere Man   8 years ago

False. Mainstream churches have never been shy about using Leviticus as and excuse to condemn homosexuality an never mention the New Testament. It has nothing to do with just nutcases.

It would seem that you avoid listening to what mainstream Christian churches say (or in this case, don't say) because it doesn't fit your belief model.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
link   Spikegary  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

I grew up going to the First Baptist Church in Poughkeepsie, N.Y., every Sunday.  I have never, ever heard of anyone in this mainstream, American Baptist Affiliated church say that ANYONE should be put to death.  Ever.  Period.

As Bruce states, the teaching/learning was always from the new testament, including Jesus' words to turn the other cheek.  Really the only time we looked at the Old Testament was for baselines, like the book of Genesis.  For rules about life, we always were in the New Testament.

So, now you've heard differently from a couple people, Randy, so you really should no longer say 'I never heard......' anymore.  For an atheist or agnostic, you sure are conflicted about something you don't believe in.

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

You have a P&C problem Randy.  You pick and choose what you want to believe in order to justify your position.  Which leads you to formulate flawed reasoning.  I was specific in my questions, because I knew you would fall into the trap of every other non-believer in trying to use Leviticus as a basis for condemning the Christian faith in their beliefs.  You hear Leviticus and you stop right there.  It has everything you need to form your opinion.  But you fail to consider the other scriptures that every Christian believes, and that Christians use to understand what was being taught in Leviticus.

You fail to understand the purpose of Leviticus, it's history with the Israelites, and it's bearing on Christianity.  In blunt terms, the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament.  In a more in depth understanding, the Old Testament helps define the teachings of the New Testament.  But as a non-believer, you fail to understand that.

This falls in the category of "if you don't know enough about the subject, best to not discuss it".

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

Asked and answered. I stand by my statements.

Yes, I am atheist. However I have read (many years ago) the KJV, the Catholic Bible and the Living Bible (which sucks! It's like a Readers Digest version and leaves out and changes the meanings of large parts of both Testaments.), cover to cover, the Catholic one twice and I still have my copy of it to refer to. So I still do know a few things about the Bible. I may be an atheist, but I can read and I can comprehend what I read.

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
link   Uncle Bruce  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Apparently not.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

BTW, in the New Testament Christ (if he ever existed) never mentions homosexuality at all. The question of if it is a sin or not is only Paul's opinion and he never knew or met Christ. Some people believe that Christ was gay.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
link   Nowhere Man  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

And NONE of that is the point for which he walked upon this earth. In fact that walk he took did more for Homosexuals than any other event in history.

If your really a Christian.

Christianity is not against homosexuality. That is between the individual and his god, which has NOTHING to do with me. (unlike what other people around here believe)

So do me a favor, do not make it about me or my christian beliefs.

No man knows when another comes to the father, and it is none of my business when (or even if) he does. All I need to know is that I will know my brother by his acts, not what he preaches.

Everything else is NOMDB!

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   seeder  Randy  replied to  Nowhere Man   8 years ago

If your really a Christian.

Fortunately for me, I am not.

 
 
 
Spikegary
Junior Quiet
link   Spikegary  replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Some people believe he was married also, though it really doesn't say, additionally, his bottom line was to love everyone.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Uncle Bruce   8 years ago

Yeah Randy, stop picking and choosing.  God only hated gays enough to execute them in a certain location and at a certain time.  After that he decided to let them live, so he could send them to hell after they have lived a full life on earth.  Is religion fun?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
link   Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Randy   8 years ago

Randy I would say that is true for everybody , it is part of the human condition, and it is not limited to religion, it happens all the time and even you have done so yourself.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
link   Buzz of the Orient  replied to  ArkansasHermit   8 years ago

There was an excellent episode of The West Wing wherein President Bartlet (Martin Sheen) confronts a phone-in TV "doctor" in the White House about the many punishments in the bible, besides the homosexuality "abomination", in order to make her look foolish. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah    8 years ago

What a fucking joke.  Christians picking and choosing what's important and what can be ignored in the Bible.  You all are stuck in the mud of religion.  Your so-called divinely inspired/authored doctrine has detestable things to say, and the mental gymnastics of explaining them away must be exhausting.

 
 
 
Cerenkov
Professor Silent
link   Cerenkov  replied to  Hal A. Lujah   8 years ago

And your Christophobia is even more disgusting, especially when coupled with your hobby as an Islamacist apologist.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Cerenkov   8 years ago

You should really do something about your thinkophobia.  It's an embarrassment.

 
 
 
jennilee
Freshman Silent
link   jennilee    8 years ago

No, a islamic terrorist did.  Its time to stop looking for answers everywhere else.  Christians did not spark this. Rednecks did not spark this. Trump supporters...nope.  Not a confederate flag in sight. Teachings of Muhammad sparked this. Look at many other muslim countries where homosexuals are punished, lashed, killed.  Thats is where you look for the spark.

 
 

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