OK upon watching the two different videos I feel that the first one was far more accurate and fair than the second one. Subtle differences in the storytelling in the second one, were unfair to Israel.
Perrie there is a point in the Crash Course video where he shows the proposed 1947 map and says it looked like a jigsaw puzzle.
You have a lot of knowledge about this topic. Why didn't they draw a map that would have had some sort of east to west border that would have separated the two peoples into two different countries? On the face of it , it would seem that could have prevented a lot of problems.
Jerusalem could have been treated like Berlin was treated after WW2 (sectors) .
Why didn't they draw a map that would have had some sort of east to west border that would have separated the two peoples into two different countries?
Because they draw a map that separated it into three countries for two peoples! (more on that in next comment).
There were primarily 2 peoples in the area--Arabs and Jews. (There never a any group that had a national identity of "Palestinians"-- they were all Arabs. "Palestine" was the name of a roughly defined area, like "New England" in the U.S., or "Scandinavia" in Europe. "Palestine" was never a group with a unique identity, nor a country-- but rather a general area.
In fact, before the modern country of israel was established, Jews living in the area referred to themselves as "Palestinians" or "Palestinian Jews". (Just as others may have referred to themselves as "Scandinavians" or "Scandinavian Jews").
People in the area identified primarily as Jews, Arabs, or Druze (Druze are a relatively small group, a unique ethnic and religious identity). The Arabs in the area identified as "Arab" then "Muslim". If you asked them to clarify, they would say "Sunni Arab". And to define their identity further, after "Arab" then "Muslim" then "Sunni", they would mention their unique tribe.
(Names of general areas in the region-- with roughly defines borders: "Palestine", "Greater Syria", "The Levant" (East coast of Meditteranean-- mainly Lebanon.), "mesopotamia (area between Tigris & Euphrates, now mainly Iraq.)
The area had been controlled by the Turks-- "Ottoman Empire" [ photo ]:
Ottoman Empire> Trump wold've probably approved because it was YUGE!-- stretched from:
-What is now Algeria in North Africa to Egypt to part of Saudi Arabia (Mecca, etc).
-Jerusalem north (now Israel & Lebanon, Turkey, Syria)-- then east through Iraq to Iraqi port of Basra.
-West of the orange area is Europe-- looks like small parts of Russia, Georgia, Ukraine. through Greece and the Baltics all the way to just outside of Vienna! All ruled by Turkey.
So what happened? WWI:
The Ottomans threatened Russia's Caucasian territories and Britain's communications with India via the Suez Canal . As the conflict progressed, the Ottoman Empire took advantage of the European powers' preoccupation with the war and conducted large-scale ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Armenian , Greek , and Assyrian Christian populations, known as the Armenian Genocide , Greek Genocide , and Assyrian Genocide .
But of course the the Ottoman Empire was on the losing side in WWII. So control of most o fthe area passed to the victors-- mainly Britain and France:
-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza.
-The British gained control of the Mandate of Iraq.
-The French gained control of an area called "greater Syria"-- and it became The French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon.
So these areas, which had been ruled by the Ottoman Empire were now ruled by Britain or France.
"Palestine" was the name of a general region- - there was never a country of Palestine, nor was it a distinct ethnic identity:
Palestine ( Arabic : فلسطين Filasṭīn , Falasṭīn , Filisṭīn ; Greek : Παλαιστίνη , Palaistinē ; Latin : Palaestina ; Hebrew : פלשתינה Palestina ) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River . It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. The name was used by Ancient Greek writers, and was later used for the Roman province Syria Palaestina , the Byzantine Palaestina Prima , and the Islamic provincial district of Jund Filastin . The region comprises most of the territory claimed for the biblical regions known as the Land of Israel ( Hebrew : ארץ־ישראל Eretz-Yisra'el ), the Holy Land or Promised Land . Historically, it has been known as the southern portion of wider regional designations such as Canaan , Syria , ash-Sham , and the Levant .
Situated at a strategic location between Egypt , Syria and Arabia , and the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity , the region has a long and tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics.
there was never a country of Palestine, nor was it a distinct ethnic identity:
Palestine ( Arabic : فلسطين Filasṭīn , Falasṭīn , Filisṭīn ; Greek : Παλαιστίνη , Palaistinē; Latin : Palaestina ; Hebrew : פלשתינה Palestina) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River . It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories.
It doesn't have to be an ethnic identity. As one of the videos mentioned, Palestinian NATIONALISM developed in the early decades of the 20th century.
It doesn't have to be an ethnic identity. As one of the videos mentioned, Palestinian NATIONALISM developed in the early decades of the 20th century.
Correct.
Through the centuries, the Arabs in the area identified first as Muslims. next as Sunnis. Then as members of a particular tribe. Then as members of an extended family. Identity has always been imprtant in the Arab world-- a clear dilineation between "Us"-- and "Them".
The "identity" of "Palestinian" was invented when the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and gaza began-- 1967. (However there never was a "Palestinian country. Before the, those two areas were also occupied-- by Jordan and Egypt respectively. But the Arabs never complained about that occupation-- because it was by Muslims.
They only started to complain about the "Occupation" & invent an identity of "Palestinian" because the occupie areas were no longer controlled by Muslims-- and the thought of a second non-Muslim majority country in the area was considered an abomination!
-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza.
-The British gained control of the Mandate of Iraq.
-The French gained control of an area called "greater Syria"-- and it became The French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon.
What happened with Iraq & Syria is interesting, and somewhat related, but its not totally relevant, so I will only continue with The British Mandate of Palestine.
After WWII, the colonial powers gave independence to many colonies in Africa and Asia. And in 1946, although they promised the Jews Palestine for their homeland, they went back on their word. They carved out a part of the British ruled mandate of Palestine (it was the biggest part--over 60%) -- and gave it to the Arabs for an independent self-ruled state. It became The Hashemite kingdom of Trans-Jordan.
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
(cont'd in next comment)
i was going to continue and to explain what happened next-- but since no one is apparently interested in reading this, why should I waste my time explaining?
Hey, Krishna, wait a second. Reciting the actual history of the area is IMPORTANT, since so many who deny it need to have their ass kicked with it again and again. Bob Nelson posted both on NV and NT long ago a four-part series outlining the LEGAL and undeniable (save by Israel-bashers) actual history of the area. It's a lesson that seems to be needed to be taught over and over.
Given by those who were in control of it. Did you miss this from the above comments?
"-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza."
That authority was sufficient for none of the other countries or their supporters to complain about it. It seems that only those who buy into the Palestinian narrative might complain about it, but then it depends on whose narrative is more honest and reliable, doesn't it.
They're good and practised at revolting against authority, leading to the more recent attacks against Israelis. An interesting thought, sort of like the US Democrats are doing today against the legal Trump presidency. Guess the Democrats have learned something from the Palestinians.
Obviously the legitimacy of Britain's authority to give away land that did not belong to them in the first place is part of the overall equation.
It had been conquered by the Turks. Turkey lost WWI, so then Britain kicked them & they occupied it. After WWII Britain decided to end their occupation and give it independence-- why are you so opposed to that? Do you think Britain giving them independence was "ilegitimate"?
(BTW the situation was similar with the huge colony of "British India"-- after WWII they Brits gave it independence-- it became two countries: most of the Muslim majority part became an independent country called Pakistan, the Hindu majority part became India.
(Later part of Pakistan seceeded from Pakistan and became another Muslim country called "Bengladesh").
Given by those who were in control of it. Did you miss this from the above comments?
"-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza."
Personal attacks? You want personal attacks? Alright I'll give you personal attacks! I hear that yo mama so big that when she sits around the house she really sits around the house! How's that! Huh!
Personal attacks! Huh! I hear yo daddy such a drunk that at his last DUI blood test they had trouble finding any blood in his alcohol! Personal attacks! Bah! I practically invented them! HA!
There can't be names of NT members mentioned or them being specifically aimed at any NT member in particular, then they wouldn't be contrary to the CoC.
Jerusalem could have been treated like Berlin was treated after WW2 (sectors)
You should read a little history. Because if you did, you'd know that it was divided:
That light blue-green line shows the divide. It was actually an International boundary. West (left on this map) of the line was the country of israel-- and" West Jerusalem". East of the blue-green line was another country-- the area illegally occupied by Jordan: this the newer part of the city "East Jerusalem"-- plus the walled Old City.
Jerusalem street before the “”Six Days War” ” when the city was united. The concrete wall on the picture was built in streets bordering with the Arab part of the city to protect people from sharpshooters bullets. PIC: Mamilla road going towards the Jaffo Gate of the Old City”
Photograph by Zev Radovan
This was what part of the city actually looked like before the eastern part of the city was lubersted from Jordanian control(1967 War). Some streets actually ended suddenly-- with a wall across them!
Am I right that Partition by the UN required that Jerusalem become an international city, but then the Jordanian Army attacked and took control, but control of the whole city was then taken over by Israel in 1967? Jordan has not opposed that specifically, other than just generally echoing the rest of the Arab and Muslim nations that want Israel and the Jews to be pushed into the sea. Perhaps it is because of the peace treaties between Israel and Jordan and Egypt that Jordan is not pushing it.
Am I right that Partition by the UN required that Jerusalem become an international city, but then the Jordanian Army attacked and took control, but control of the whole city was then taken over by Israel in 1967? Jordan has not opposed that specifically, other than just generally echoing the rest of the Arab and Muslim nations that want Israel and the Jews to be pushed into the sea. Perhaps it is because of the peace treaties between Israel and Jordan and Egypt that Jordan is not pushing it.
Here's what happened:
1. The area was controlled by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey).
2. Turkey lost WWI, so control passed to Britain and France.
3. After WWII Britain decided to end their rule and give the area independence.
A. In 1946 they let the majority of the mandate gain independence-- it became an independent Arab country ("The Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan", a kingdom ruled bythe Hashemites).
B. In 1948 they gave the smaller portion independence-- it was supposed to be divided into two tiny countries-- a new Arab country to be called "Palestine", and the re-establishment of ancient Israel (called "Israel").
4. On the eve of independence, 5 Arab countries attacked and told the residents to leave-- they were going to "push the Jews into the sea"-- and both areas would then be Arab, and those who left would be able to return. (Some left, some stayed).
A. The Jewish area defended themselves successfully, and survived as Israel, as planned.
B. When the fighting stopped, the Arab invaders should've withdrawn from the area that was supposed to become Palestine. (Gaza + West Bank). However, Egypt remained in Gaza and illegally occupied it-- thus preventing Gaza from becoming a new country.
C. When the fighting stopped, Jordan didn't leave the West Bank (including Jerusalem)-- they remained and illegally occupied the West Bank. Thus preventing that area from becoming a new country ("Palestine"). ...later Jordan ended the occupation and actually annexed the West Bank to make it part of Jordan.
5. In 1967 a war resulted in Israel kicking Jordan and Egypt out. The occupation changed from Egypt and Jordan to Israel.Israel said they would withdraw if the Arabs would make peace and recognize Israel's right to exist. (The Arabs refused).
6. In 2005 Israel unilaterally ended its occupation of Gaza-- it now has total self-rule as an independent Palestinian entity. The bext step was to be a phased withdrawal from the West bank.
But as a result of Israel's withdrawal, Gaza-based terrorists infiltrated Israel and started firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets. Public opinion in Israel therefore turned -- and they decided not to withdraw from the West Bank. (Gaza terrorists have also started infiltrating into Egypt and murdering Egyptians as well).
I agree with you, Randy, that fair criticism of the Israeli goverment and its leaders and IDF and Judiciary and Settlers and Haradim is not bashing, and I have done that myself. However, I did say FAIR criticism, taking into consideration the surrounding circumstances. However, BDS and similar movements that are meant to delegitamize and destroy Israel, and the supporting of Hamas and others who practise terrorism are the kinds of bashing I'm talking about.
(Gaza terrorists have also started infiltrating into Egypt and murdering Egyptians as well).
Which no one talks about
Egypt has imposed a blockade on Gaza. And the gazans had mde tunnels into Egypt. But after the gazans keep using the tunnels to enter Egypt and murder Egyptians, the Egyptian flooded the tunnels. (Some Gazans were killed in the process...).
Egypt is now under attack from the east, off and on, by Hamas terrorists from Gaza. But they are also under attack from the west by ISIS terrorists in Libya (Yes, ISIS does have a presence in Africa). And-- occasionally Egypt is attacked from terrorists in the heartland of Egypt.
That light blue-green line shows the divide. It was actually an International boundary. West (left on this map) of the line was the country of israel-- and" West Jerusalem". East of the blue-green line was another country-- the area illegally occupied by Jordan: this the newer part of the city "East Jerusalem"-- plus the walled Old City.
Which created a problem. Jordan had control of the Old City which contained holy sites of three religions. But when the Jordanians had it, they denied Jews access to jewish holy places. In fact, they destroyed some Jewish holy sites, used synagogues for stables, etc.
In the 1967 war Jerusalem is unified-- and now, since Israel controls all of Jerusalem-- all religions are allowed access to their holy sites!!!
Which created a problem. Jordan had control of the Old City which contained holy sites of three religions. But when the Jordanians had it, they denied Jews access to jewish holy places. In fact, they destroyed some Jewish holy sites, used synagogues for stables, etc.
In the 1967 war Jerusalem is unified-- and now, since Israel controls all of Jerusalem -- all religions are allowed access to their holy sites!!!
The West Bank was supposed to become part of a new nation that was supposed to be created in 1948 (to be called "Palestine").
But Jordan's seizure and illegal Occupation of the area was the thing that prevented the formation of this new country:
Kingdom of Jordan and Jordanian occupation of the West Bank, 1948-1967
Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on 24 April 1950. The annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized by the United Kingdom , Iraq and Pakistan .
Hopefully Krishna or Perrie will answer you. I would if I could but you know I cannot open YouTube. If SixPick were around he could put the videos in a format I could watch.
I hope you can see these Buzz. I may have lowered the quality a little too much. Feedback would be appreciated as to how it turned out for you. Describe how it turned out, such as jumpy, clear or not clear. I will base my future conversions on what you tell me about it. You can send me a note to avoid putting it here on this article. Thank you - six
I'm kinda late to the party... and I'm too lazy to read all the Comments, so maybe my points have already been made by others...
The "Crash Course" is what you might call a "hatchet job with a smile". The speaker has an easy-going manner that makes us want to like him and... believe him. But he doesn't mention some important points like ummm... three-quarters of the original Palestinian Mandate have already been turned into a Muslim state (Kingdom of Jordan). He recalls that about 700 000 Muslims left the regions controlled by Israel after the 1948 war... but does not recall that Israel received about the same number of Jews fleeing from Arab countries. More importantly, Israel assimilated the Jewish refugees, while the Arab countries put tbe Muslim refugees in barbed-wire-enclosed camps, where they are still imprisoned to this day.
We discussed the Vox video a few months ago. It takes a few liberties with fact, too,
Both videos are insidious. They "feel" even-handed. They are not.
In the comments above that you preferred not to read, I said that you had on NV and upon my request again here on NT posted your 4-part series on the actual history of Israel to the present time. Unfortunately not many have had the opportunity to read it, but even with that, some still prefer Arab/Palestinian/Muslim propaganda to actual provable facts.
OK upon watching the two different videos I feel that the first one was far more accurate and fair than the second one. Subtle differences in the storytelling in the second one, were unfair to Israel.
So you think the Vox video was more biased.
yes.
Perrie there is a point in the Crash Course video where he shows the proposed 1947 map and says it looked like a jigsaw puzzle.
You have a lot of knowledge about this topic. Why didn't they draw a map that would have had some sort of east to west border that would have separated the two peoples into two different countries? On the face of it , it would seem that could have prevented a lot of problems.
Jerusalem could have been treated like Berlin was treated after WW2 (sectors) .
Why didn't they draw a map that would have had some sort of east to west border that would have separated the two peoples into two different countries?
Because they draw a map that separated it into three countries for two peoples! (more on that in next comment).
There were primarily 2 peoples in the area--Arabs and Jews. (There never a any group that had a national identity of "Palestinians"-- they were all Arabs. "Palestine" was the name of a roughly defined area, like "New England" in the U.S., or "Scandinavia" in Europe. "Palestine" was never a group with a unique identity, nor a country-- but rather a general area.
In fact, before the modern country of israel was established, Jews living in the area referred to themselves as "Palestinians" or "Palestinian Jews". (Just as others may have referred to themselves as "Scandinavians" or "Scandinavian Jews").
People in the area identified primarily as Jews, Arabs, or Druze (Druze are a relatively small group, a unique ethnic and religious identity). The Arabs in the area identified as "Arab" then "Muslim". If you asked them to clarify, they would say "Sunni Arab". And to define their identity further, after "Arab" then "Muslim" then "Sunni", they would mention their unique tribe.
(Names of general areas in the region-- with roughly defines borders: "Palestine", "Greater Syria", "The Levant" (East coast of Meditteranean-- mainly Lebanon.), "mesopotamia (area between Tigris & Euphrates, now mainly Iraq.)
The area had been controlled by the Turks-- "Ottoman Empire" [ photo ]:
Ottoman Empire> Trump wold've probably approved because it was YUGE!-- stretched from:
-What is now Algeria in North Africa to Egypt to part of Saudi Arabia (Mecca, etc).
-Jerusalem north (now Israel & Lebanon, Turkey, Syria)-- then east through Iraq to Iraqi port of Basra.
-West of the orange area is Europe-- looks like small parts of Russia, Georgia, Ukraine. through Greece and the Baltics all the way to just outside of Vienna! All ruled by Turkey.
So what happened? WWI:
The Ottomans threatened Russia's Caucasian territories and Britain's communications with India via the Suez Canal . As the conflict progressed, the Ottoman Empire took advantage of the European powers' preoccupation with the war and conducted large-scale ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Armenian , Greek , and Assyrian Christian populations, known as the Armenian Genocide , Greek Genocide , and Assyrian Genocide .
But of course the the Ottoman Empire was on the losing side in WWII. So control of most o fthe area passed to the victors-- mainly Britain and France:
-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza.
-The British gained control of the Mandate of Iraq.
-The French gained control of an area called "greater Syria"-- and it became The French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon.
So these areas, which had been ruled by the Ottoman Empire were now ruled by Britain or France.
(cont'd in next comment)
"Palestine" was the name of a general region- - there was never a country of Palestine, nor was it a distinct ethnic identity:
Palestine ( Arabic : فلسطين Filasṭīn , Falasṭīn , Filisṭīn ; Greek : Παλαιστίνη , Palaistinē ; Latin : Palaestina ; Hebrew : פלשתינה Palestina ) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River . It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories. The name was used by Ancient Greek writers, and was later used for the Roman province Syria Palaestina , the Byzantine Palaestina Prima , and the Islamic provincial district of Jund Filastin . The region comprises most of the territory claimed for the biblical regions known as the Land of Israel ( Hebrew : ארץ־ישראל Eretz-Yisra'el ), the Holy Land or Promised Land . Historically, it has been known as the southern portion of wider regional designations such as Canaan , Syria , ash-Sham , and the Levant .
Situated at a strategic location between Egypt , Syria and Arabia , and the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity , the region has a long and tumultuous history as a crossroads for religion, culture, commerce, and politics.
To be cont'd (I have to go out for a while).
there was never a country of Palestine, nor was it a distinct ethnic identity:
Palestine ( Arabic : فلسطين Filasṭīn , Falasṭīn , Filisṭīn ; Greek : Παλαιστίνη , Palaistinē; Latin : Palaestina ; Hebrew : פלשתינה Palestina) is a geographic region in Western Asia between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River . It is sometimes considered to include adjoining territories.
It doesn't have to be an ethnic identity. As one of the videos mentioned, Palestinian NATIONALISM developed in the early decades of the 20th century.
It doesn't have to be an ethnic identity. As one of the videos mentioned, Palestinian NATIONALISM developed in the early decades of the 20th century.
Correct.
Through the centuries, the Arabs in the area identified first as Muslims. next as Sunnis. Then as members of a particular tribe. Then as members of an extended family. Identity has always been imprtant in the Arab world-- a clear dilineation between "Us"-- and "Them".
The "identity" of "Palestinian" was invented when the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and gaza began-- 1967. (However there never was a "Palestinian country. Before the, those two areas were also occupied-- by Jordan and Egypt respectively. But the Arabs never complained about that occupation-- because it was by Muslims.
They only started to complain about the "Occupation" & invent an identity of "Palestinian" because the occupie areas were no longer controlled by Muslims-- and the thought of a second non-Muslim majority country in the area was considered an abomination!
(Cont'd from previous comments):
-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza.
-The British gained control of the Mandate of Iraq.
-The French gained control of an area called "greater Syria"-- and it became The French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon.
What happened with Iraq & Syria is interesting, and somewhat related, but its not totally relevant, so I will only continue with The British Mandate of Palestine.
After WWII, the colonial powers gave independence to many colonies in Africa and Asia. And in 1946, although they promised the Jews Palestine for their homeland, they went back on their word. They carved out a part of the British ruled mandate of Palestine (it was the biggest part--over 60%) -- and gave it to the Arabs for an independent self-ruled state. It became The Hashemite kingdom of Trans-Jordan.
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
(cont'd in next comment)
Any questions?
Comments?
Personal attacks?
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
(cont'd in next comment)
i was going to continue and to explain what happened next-- but since no one is apparently interested in reading this, why should I waste my time explaining?
So-- BYE, BYE-- I'm outa here!
"Personal attacks?
"
LOL
Hey, Krishna, wait a second. Reciting the actual history of the area is IMPORTANT, since so many who deny it need to have their ass kicked with it again and again. Bob Nelson posted both on NV and NT long ago a four-part series outlining the LEGAL and undeniable (save by Israel-bashers) actual history of the area. It's a lesson that seems to be needed to be taught over and over.
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
"Given" by whom ?
Given by those who were in control of it. Did you miss this from the above comments?
"-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza."
Obviously the legitimacy of Britain's authority to give away land that did not belong to them in the first place is part of the overall equation.
Obviously the legitimacy of Britain's authority to give away land that did not belong to them in the first place is part of the overall equation.
Did you read what I said-- how the Brits got the land in the first place?
I know how Britain gained control. So what?
Israel (the Jewish population) threw off the British "authority" to tell them what to do, didn't they? Why wouldn't the other party?
That authority was sufficient for none of the other countries or their supporters to complain about it. It seems that only those who buy into the Palestinian narrative might complain about it, but then it depends on whose narrative is more honest and reliable, doesn't it.
Obviously the legitimacy of Britain's authority to give away land that did not belong to them in the first place is part of the overall equation.
OK-- so, in your opinion, who did that land belong to "in the first place"?
(Or if you don't want to go back to the "first place"-- who did the land belong to just before the British got it? And how did the British get it?)
It belonged to Turkey
It belonged to Turkey
Correct.
(How did you know that...?)
It belonged to Turkey
Correct.
(How did you know that...?)
She watched the videos.
The British were formally awarded the mandate to govern the region in 1922. [88] The non-Jewish Palestinians revolted in 1920 , 1929 , and 1936 . [89]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)#cite_note-FOOTNOTESegev2001270-294-95
-
evidently the non- Jewish Palestinians did not accept Britain's authority to rule them
they revolted against British rule
They're good and practised at revolting against authority, leading to the more recent attacks against Israelis. An interesting thought, sort of like the US Democrats are doing today against the legal Trump presidency. Guess the Democrats have learned something from the Palestinians.
Obviously the legitimacy of Britain's authority to give away land that did not belong to them in the first place is part of the overall equation.
It had been conquered by the Turks. Turkey lost WWI, so then Britain kicked them & they occupied it. After WWII Britain decided to end their occupation and give it independence-- why are you so opposed to that? Do you think Britain giving them independence was "ilegitimate"?
(BTW the situation was similar with the huge colony of "British India"-- after WWII they Brits gave it independence-- it became two countries: most of the Muslim majority part became an independent country called Pakistan, the Hindu majority part became India.
(Later part of Pakistan seceeded from Pakistan and became another Muslim country called "Bengladesh").
Given by those who were in control of it. Did you miss this from the above comments?
"-The British gained control of part of the area called "Palestine"--it became "the British Mandate of Palestine". It consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the Occupied West Bank, and Gaza."
Correct!
So the bulk of "Palestine" was given to the Arabs to form an independent self-governing country..
"Given" by whom ?
I'm not going to play that game, John.(I already said who gave it to them-- read my comments...the truth is out there).
Personal attacks?
Personal attacks? You want personal attacks? Alright I'll give you personal attacks! I hear that yo mama so big that when she sits around the house she really sits around the house! How's that! Huh!
I hear yo mama so ugly she gotta wear a pork chop around her neck to get the dog to play with her. Challenge me to personal attacks huh!
Personal attacks! Huh! I hear yo daddy such a drunk that at his last DUI blood test they had trouble finding any blood in his alcohol! Personal attacks! Bah! I practically invented them! HA!
Did I challenge you? We should start an article challenging the members to come up with the best personal attack jokes.
Krishna did.
He didn't aim that specifically at you, it was to whomsoever might have been intending to personally attack him.
He didn't aim that specifically at you, it was to whomsoever might have been intending to personally attack him.
I know, but I couldn't resist and I know he has a good sense of humor.
We should start an article challenging the members to come up with the best personal attack jokes.
It would have to be carefully explained and moderated otherwise some would just get nasty.
There can't be names of NT members mentioned or them being specifically aimed at any NT member in particular, then they wouldn't be contrary to the CoC.
I just sent Perrie an email too, asking for her advice, so it stays in the CoC.
Jerusalem could have been treated like Berlin was treated after WW2 (sectors)
You should read a little history. Because if you did, you'd know that it was divided:
That light blue-green line shows the divide. It was actually an International boundary. West (left on this map) of the line was the country of israel-- and" West Jerusalem". East of the blue-green line was another country-- the area illegally occupied by Jordan: this the newer part of the city "East Jerusalem"-- plus the walled Old City.
Just like the divided city of Berlin had a crossing (Checkpoint Charlie") Jerusalem had a checkpoint ("The Mandelbaum Gate"):
By Unknown - לא ידוע, CC BY-SA 3.0,
Jerusalem street before the “”Six Days War” ” when the city was united. The concrete wall on the picture was built in streets bordering with the Arab part of the city to protect people from sharpshooters bullets. PIC: Mamilla road going towards the Jaffo Gate of the Old City”
Photograph by Zev Radovan
This was what part of the city actually looked like before the eastern part of the city was lubersted from Jordanian control(1967 War). Some streets actually ended suddenly-- with a wall across them!
Am I right that Partition by the UN required that Jerusalem become an international city, but then the Jordanian Army attacked and took control, but control of the whole city was then taken over by Israel in 1967? Jordan has not opposed that specifically, other than just generally echoing the rest of the Arab and Muslim nations that want Israel and the Jews to be pushed into the sea. Perhaps it is because of the peace treaties between Israel and Jordan and Egypt that Jordan is not pushing it.
Am I right that Partition by the UN required that Jerusalem become an international city, but then the Jordanian Army attacked and took control, but control of the whole city was then taken over by Israel in 1967? Jordan has not opposed that specifically, other than just generally echoing the rest of the Arab and Muslim nations that want Israel and the Jews to be pushed into the sea. Perhaps it is because of the peace treaties between Israel and Jordan and Egypt that Jordan is not pushing it.
Here's what happened:
1. The area was controlled by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey).
2. Turkey lost WWI, so control passed to Britain and France.
3. After WWII Britain decided to end their rule and give the area independence.
A. In 1946 they let the majority of the mandate gain independence-- it became an independent Arab country ("The Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan", a kingdom ruled bythe Hashemites).
B. In 1948 they gave the smaller portion independence-- it was supposed to be divided into two tiny countries-- a new Arab country to be called "Palestine", and the re-establishment of ancient Israel (called "Israel").
4. On the eve of independence, 5 Arab countries attacked and told the residents to leave-- they were going to "push the Jews into the sea"-- and both areas would then be Arab, and those who left would be able to return. (Some left, some stayed).
A. The Jewish area defended themselves successfully, and survived as Israel, as planned.
B. When the fighting stopped, the Arab invaders should've withdrawn from the area that was supposed to become Palestine. (Gaza + West Bank). However, Egypt remained in Gaza and illegally occupied it-- thus preventing Gaza from becoming a new country.
C. When the fighting stopped, Jordan didn't leave the West Bank (including Jerusalem)-- they remained and illegally occupied the West Bank. Thus preventing that area from becoming a new country ("Palestine"). ...later Jordan ended the occupation and actually annexed the West Bank to make it part of Jordan.
5. In 1967 a war resulted in Israel kicking Jordan and Egypt out. The occupation changed from Egypt and Jordan to Israel.Israel said they would withdraw if the Arabs would make peace and recognize Israel's right to exist. (The Arabs refused).
6. In 2005 Israel unilaterally ended its occupation of Gaza-- it now has total self-rule as an independent Palestinian entity. The bext step was to be a phased withdrawal from the West bank.
But as a result of Israel's withdrawal, Gaza-based terrorists infiltrated Israel and started firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets. Public opinion in Israel therefore turned -- and they decided not to withdraw from the West Bank. (Gaza terrorists have also started infiltrating into Egypt and murdering Egyptians as well).
(Gaza terrorists have also started infiltrating into Egypt and murdering Egyptians as well).
Which no one talks about
"Which no one talks about"
Of course not. That's one of the reasons why Israel-bashing is equated to anti-Semitism.
"Which no one talks about"
Of course not. That's one of the reasons why Israel-bashing is equated to anti-Semitism.
Bashing some of the actions of the Israeli government in the person of Benjamin Netanyahu or the actions of the Likud Party is NOT antisemitism.
I agree with you, Randy, that fair criticism of the Israeli goverment and its leaders and IDF and Judiciary and Settlers and Haradim is not bashing, and I have done that myself. However, I did say FAIR criticism, taking into consideration the surrounding circumstances. However, BDS and similar movements that are meant to delegitamize and destroy Israel, and the supporting of Hamas and others who practise terrorism are the kinds of bashing I'm talking about.
(Gaza terrorists have also started infiltrating into Egypt and murdering Egyptians as well).
Which no one talks about
Egypt has imposed a blockade on Gaza. And the gazans had mde tunnels into Egypt. But after the gazans keep using the tunnels to enter Egypt and murder Egyptians, the Egyptian flooded the tunnels. (Some Gazans were killed in the process...).
Egypt is now under attack from the east, off and on, by Hamas terrorists from Gaza. But they are also under attack from the west by ISIS terrorists in Libya (Yes, ISIS does have a presence in Africa). And-- occasionally Egypt is attacked from terrorists in the heartland of Egypt.
That light blue-green line shows the divide. It was actually an International boundary. West (left on this map) of the line was the country of israel-- and" West Jerusalem". East of the blue-green line was another country-- the area illegally occupied by Jordan: this the newer part of the city "East Jerusalem"-- plus the walled Old City.
Which created a problem. Jordan had control of the Old City which contained holy sites of three religions. But when the Jordanians had it, they denied Jews access to jewish holy places. In fact, they destroyed some Jewish holy sites, used synagogues for stables, etc.
In the 1967 war Jerusalem is unified-- and now, since Israel controls all of Jerusalem-- all religions are allowed access to their holy sites!!!
Which created a problem. Jordan had control of the Old City which contained holy sites of three religions. But when the Jordanians had it, they denied Jews access to jewish holy places. In fact, they destroyed some Jewish holy sites, used synagogues for stables, etc.
In the 1967 war Jerusalem is unified-- and now, since Israel controls all of Jerusalem -- all religions are allowed access to their holy sites!!!
The West Bank was supposed to become part of a new nation that was supposed to be created in 1948 (to be called "Palestine").
But Jordan's seizure and illegal Occupation of the area was the thing that prevented the formation of this new country:
Kingdom of Jordan and Jordanian occupation of the West Bank, 1948-1967
Jordanian occupation of the West Bank refers to the occupation and annexation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem ) by Jordan (formerly Transjordan ), during a period of nearly two decades (1948–1967) in the aftermath of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War .
During the war, Jordan's Arab Legion conquered the Old City of Jerusalem and took control of territory on the western side of the Jordan River , including the cities of Jericho , Bethlehem , Hebron and Nablus . [3] At the end of hostilities, Jordan was in complete control of the West Bank.
Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on 24 April 1950. The annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized by the United Kingdom , Iraq and Pakistan .
(READ IT ALL)
Subtle differences in the storytelling in the second one, were unfair to Israel.
How would you describe the subtle differences you saw?
Hopefully Krishna or Perrie will answer you. I would if I could but you know I cannot open YouTube. If SixPick were around he could put the videos in a format I could watch.
I don't know the procedure for that so I can't help you Buzz. Maybe Perrie or Six will do so.
I hope you can see these Buzz. I may have lowered the quality a little too much. Feedback would be appreciated as to how it turned out for you. Describe how it turned out, such as jumpy, clear or not clear. I will base my future conversions on what you tell me about it. You can send me a note to avoid putting it here on this article. Thank you - six
No, that's not a fountain pen on my head-- but I am glad to see you!
Capital Hat!
I'm kinda late to the party... and I'm too lazy to read all the Comments, so maybe my points have already been made by others...
The "Crash Course" is what you might call a "hatchet job with a smile". The speaker has an easy-going manner that makes us want to like him and... believe him. But he doesn't mention some important points like ummm... three-quarters of the original Palestinian Mandate have already been turned into a Muslim state (Kingdom of Jordan). He recalls that about 700 000 Muslims left the regions controlled by Israel after the 1948 war... but does not recall that Israel received about the same number of Jews fleeing from Arab countries. More importantly, Israel assimilated the Jewish refugees, while the Arab countries put tbe Muslim refugees in barbed-wire-enclosed camps, where they are still imprisoned to this day.
We discussed the Vox video a few months ago. It takes a few liberties with fact, too,
Both videos are insidious. They "feel" even-handed. They are not.
People People interested in this topic may be interested by:
HAMAS OFFICIAL MAHMOUD AL-ZAHHAR: THE QURAN TELLS US TO DRIVE THE JEWS OUT OF PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY
Lots of folks insist that Israel must negotiate with all Palestinians.
Seriously.
In the comments above that you preferred not to read, I said that you had on NV and upon my request again here on NT posted your 4-part series on the actual history of Israel to the present time. Unfortunately not many have had the opportunity to read it, but even with that, some still prefer Arab/Palestinian/Muslim propaganda to actual provable facts.
I didn't "prefer" not to read... I just didn't have the time.
I wanted to comment, though, because videos like these are important shapers of public opinion. You do a genuine public service in seeding them.