These mothers of suicides don't think marijuana is harmless
Sally Schindel sits in front of a painting of her son Andrew Zorn, who took his own life after saying he became addicted to marijuana. She talked of his life and the problems marijuana cause for their family at her home in Prescott, Ariz. on April 4, 2017. (Photo: Patrick Breen for Yahoo News)
The five years leading up to that day in the driveway had been a nightmarish downward spiral, “something no parent should go through,” she said. Schindel described how Andy began smoking marijuana regularly and soon experienced major depression, psychosis, “countless” threats of suicide, five psychiatric hospitalizations, and two court orders for mental health treatment.
As lobbyists and some state governments work to legalize marijuana for medical and recreational use throughout the U.S., Schindel has become an outspoken critic of the potential legislation, convinced that high-potency marijuana led her son down a chaotic road of severe mental health issues and ultimately suicide.
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Still in the throes of her grief, Schindel connected with Lori Robinson, another mother who believes cannabis addiction is responsible for her son’s suicide.
Robinson said her son Shane was vibrant and accomplished before he began regularly smoking marijuana in his early 20s.
He quickly experienced severe psychiatric issues, including multiple psychotic breaks and hallucinations, even though he had no known history of mental illness. Toward the end of his life, Robinson said, he was institutionalized and “locked in a mental unit” at the height of his psychosis.
Just seeded this because I figured it might "separate the men from the boys" as it were. (Or perhaps more accurately, that it might separate the Libertarians from the Conservatives.)
Pot can make some mental illnesses, even un-diagnosed mental illnesses, worse, such as Bi-polar illnesses and Psychotic illnesses, but in and of itself does not cause it mental illness. Also it is useful in treating Depression as I well know. I self-medicated with it for years.
Shane, in the above example, was in his early 20's, a normal age when Bi-Polar illness begin, including hallucinations . The pot may have made what he went through worse, but he would have developed the same mental illness at about the same age if he had never heard of pot.
The same with Andy and his disease, which is completely different then Shane's and more frequent in adolescents. It is in young teens when Psychosis develops and suicidal thoughts begin. There is and always has been a higher rate of suicide among young teens. Again, pot may have made his mental illness worse, most likely because his brain was still developing and he should not have been smoking it in the first place, but it did not cause it.
I have never once talked to a Psychiatrist or Psychologist (and I have talked to many of them, both as a patient and as friends and co-workers) who ever agreed that pot causes any mental illness, but that it could worsen some. And help in others, in adults.
I would say that Randy is absolutely correct. There is little that I can add to his comment. If Marijuana DID in fact cause pschosis it would never have been legalized for medical usage. It took years of studies and experimentation to determine that medical usage was beneficial rather than detrimental. If it's okay for medical usage, it's okay for recreational usage with sensible controls, like Canada is proposing in its new legislation. (Click the link) Prohibition never worked for alcohol and it will never work for marijuana, and marijuana is a hell of a lot more benign than alcohol.
Just like any medicinal treatment, it can induce adverse reactions. Especially if overused. I agree that there is no proof that it 'causes' a mental illness, just may possibly exacerbate one.
Today's pot is a lot more powerful than that from the 60's & 70's . That might be part of the problem ...
It wouldn't take anyone long to adjust their intake to make sure they don't exceed their tolerance. The stronger the product, the faster you'll probably fall asleep.
A product that you smoke is difficult to adjust the dosage ...
Well, if you think the joint is too strong after you've finished one. The next time, smoke only half of one. Easy.
No it isn't. One hit at a time with the dugout.
Exactly.
Any drug is harmful in the hands of young people. Not very many youngsters have the adult ability of deciding when enough is enough. Most will try anything to get some kind of high going on. They truly believe they are infallible!
To say that some unstable mental tendency is the real problem is just some sort of justification for allowing the sale of this stuff. Ok, son, you can smoke it if you are mentally evaluated first.....BULL!
I saw my nephew go from smoking pot (his parents did) to hard drugs overdosing twice. One rehab after another; jailed and he was all of 17. Today, that same young man is one of the highest paid technologists in the entertainment industry. No psychological problems......addiction....looking for a better high. He is lucky to be alive. I wasn't too proud of my niece for taking the attitude that it was alright as long as it was used at home. How stupid can you get? It's like saying it is alright to drink alcohol at home, but you can't do it anywhere else. Stupid! BTW...her husband died as a result of drugs and alcohol!
It is not good!
Any drug is harmful in the hands of young people. Not very many youngsters have the adult ability of deciding when enough is enough. Most will try anything to get some kind of high going on. They truly believe they are infallible!
To say that some unstable mental tendency is the real problem is just some sort of justification for allowing the sale of this stuff. Ok, son, you can smoke it if you are mentally evaluated first.....BULL!
I saw my nephew go from smoking pot (his parents did) to hard drugs overdosing twice. One rehab after another; jailed and he was all of 17. Today, that same young man is one of the highest paid technologists in the entertainment industry. No psychological problems......addiction....looking for a better high. He is lucky to be alive. I wasn't too proud of my niece for taking the attitude that it was alright as long as it was used at home. How stupid can you get? It's like saying it is alright to drink alcohol at home, but you can't do it anywhere else. Stupid! BTW...her husband died as a result of drugs and alcohol!
It is not good!
And I smoked pot for more then 25 years and never moved on to any hard drugs and the same applied to all of my pot smoking friends. I mean why bother? The high we got from pot was more then enough for us, even when we were young. Sure I tried coke and didn't like it and the same with acid. Coke was too expensive and the buzz was way too short (and not that good), especially for the money. With acid the buzz was too hard to control. Pot was a good high that I could control (except when really, really stoned with friends and then it was really, really FUN!).
To imply that pot leads to hard drugs is a very, very, very broad brush that has not ever been proven in actual surveys and has only been shown in anecdotal cases such as your nephew. In a very few cases it may happen, but as a rule the idea is generally nothing more then a scare tactic used by people who do not approve of legalization of it.
We all relate to experiences in life. I cited my nephew, but having raised two sons there are other instances which I won't go into.
Why take a chance? I smoke cigarettes and have since I was 17. Will I quit before I die? No. Do I want to smoke? No. I have an addiction. Did it lead to trying illegal drugs? No.
Pot should not be used by young people. Hell, the stigma is worse against smoking cigarettes.
Years ago when my two sons were teenagers there was a "store" up the road that sold pot. The kids could drive by and buy a couple of bucks worth and drive off. The cops knew this place existed. I was a soccer coach and got wind of this by eavesdropping on some kids who were talking about it. I went public in the newspaper. Lordy, lordy. I was harassed by phone, followed in my car....you name it. See, I accused the cops as well as calling out the drug dealers. Under pressure they closed it down. Oh, I received accolades, but where were these people when I was going it alone? In a few years, the dealers just opened up in another place! Bully for me.....I accomplished nothing 'cause people talk about it, but do nothing.
I smoke cigarettes and have since I was 17. Will I quit before I die? No. Do I want to smoke? No. I have an addiction.
You don't even have the fortitude to quit smoking cancer sticks, and yet you feel justified in condemning marijuana? Carl Sagan, Paul McCartney, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Andrew Sullivan, Morgan Freeman, Seth McFarlane, Oliver Stone, Bill Maher, Maya Angelou, Ted Turner, Clarence Thomas, Open Winfrey, and millions of other lesser know folks disagree with you. Immensely.
I smoked cigarettes for 35 years and I quit. I have an addiction to nicotine too. I used the patch and it took 6 months, but I haven't had a cigarette in more then 10 years and I won't have another one before I die. They cost too damned much now! Hell decent scotch is cheaper!
Holier than thou! Yes, I do. Because I have witnessed 12 and 13 year olds smoke the chit thinking they are so special.
I smoke cigarettes and you wouldn't have known that I I had not told you.
You have really got me going here. Do you really think I care that the people you mentioned quit smoking? If I quit smoking it would be for my grandson whose avatar is shown. He loves me without any regard.
My life has never been built around what celebrities say ( I was one myself). My little soccer players were the ones I thought about.
The people I mentioned are not former cigarette smokers, they are marijuana advocates. They are also incredibly successful people from a wide variety of genres. You clearly are out of your element here, and I doubt that your opinion means anything to anyone in this regard.
"To imply that pot leads to hard drugs is a very, very, very broad brush that has not ever been proven in actual surveys and has only been shown in anecdotal cases such as your nephew. In a very few cases it may happen, but as a rule the idea is generally nothing more then a scare tactic used by people who do not approve of legalization of it."
Pot is not in itself a "gateway" drug that leads to use of harder drugs. If a potsmoker goes up that ladder it's probably caused by peer pressure, trying to fit in with those who are more involved in a drugged life. I, too, in the far past have experimented with other drugs, never heroin, but I never did more than experiment. However, I would not dare be at all involved with drugs where I am now due to the severity of the punishment if caught, and anyway, I've not done any drugs at all for more than 30 years, haven't smoked tobacco for more than 40 years, and due to a more recent increased uric acid level very rarely drink anything alcoholic and then only a glass of wine or a beer maybe once a month, if that often - and anyone who has suffered a serious case of gout (like I did) would know why.
One point here is that I still have (at least) most of my memory, have lost only one point off my IQ since I was 18, can beat most people in Scrabble, am still in relatively good health in my 80th year, and as for my intelligence, that's not for me to judge, but I leave that to you.
Pot is not in itself a "gateway" drug that leads to use of harder drugs. If a potsmoker goes up that ladder it's probably caused by peer pressure, trying to fit in with those who are more involved in a drugged life.
Over the years I've known a lot of people who smoked pot-- none went on to user other drugs. And I think the reason is simply that the type of person who loves the Marijuana high really loves it-- from their point of view its so good that they figure-- why move on to any other drug? They feel other drugs won't produce the nice kind of high they get from pot.
Also, there are some drugs where the high is more "intense"-- I think people who like that sort of high often have an urge for an experience that is even more intense-- so they often do move on to harder stuff.
I'm fortunate to have four pot stores within six miles of my house. High country healing my favorite. I'd have a hard time moving to a state that didn't allow this freedom.
I thought the non-black-market varieties were so expensive that the black market never went away in CO.
We have both a healthy black market and open market. The black market product is usually cheaper and we get a thirty percent locals discount at the stores. They really soak the tourists.
Marijuana makes a certain percentage of users paranoid. This is a well known fact, yet pot proponents insist on pretending that the weed is completely benign.
I don't think marijuana use should be punished by the law, but the government shouldn't be promoting it either. It is not completely safe.
Legalizing it is not promoting it.
It is not completely safe.
What is?
"Marijuana makes a certain percentage of users paranoid."
The only paranoia I knew was the concern of being caught by the narcos. With legalization, that paranoia is alleviated.
"Marijuana makes a certain percentage of users paranoid."
The only paranoia I knew was the concern of being caught by the narcos. With legalization, that paranoia is alleviated.
I have known a few people over the years who had paranoid reactions-- I found it hard to understand because for me it was such a mellow high. But there are some people who do get paranoid (and I think for them its just the reaction they get from that drug-- I would imagine they would get it even if the drug was legal).
Exactly!
To those who feel that marijuana should be banned - do you use drugs that are proven to be much more harmful, such as alcohol or tobacco? The destruction of the lives of those who have to live with the "users", let alone the "users" themselves, is in your hands.
do you use drugs that are proven to be much more harmful, such as alcohol or tobacco?
A friend of mine was in AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) & invited me to a meeting. I wasn't an alcoholic but was curious about how the 12 Step programmes worked-- so I went.
Some of the stories were pretty amazing-- incredible how some of those people let alcohol ruin their lives-- breaking up families, losing good jobs-- and of course there were people who had a family member or close friend killed by drunk drivers.
Tobacco is also a killer-- IMO anyone who smokes now (with all the information available as to the effects of smoking) has a subconscious death wish. (I used to be addicted to tobacco but decided to give it up-- I haven't smoked for over 20 years. And I never feel the urge to smoke, never even think about it any more).
Randy's and Buzz's comments have covered my feelings on the subject. I have used pot off and on for 40 years. I've never needed any psychiatric medications. The only pills I take now are vitamins and a thyroid supplement.