A new study published in Nature Human Behaviour found that people around the world are predisposed to believe that atheists are more likely to be serial killers than religious believers — a bias even held by atheists themselves.
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By the numbers: The study included 3,256 participants across 13 diverse countries that included highly secular nations like Finland and the Netherlands as well as highly religious ones like the United Arab Emirates and India.
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The test: Participants answered a survey question regarding the religious beliefs of a hypothetical sociopathic serial killer, and 60% tagged the killer as not believing in any gods, compared to 30 percent who branded him a religious believer.
Why it matters: Even as the world becomes increasingly secular, people in very diverse societies across the globe still generally view belief in a god as preventative of extremely immoral actions. Though humanity's core moral norms tend to largely be universal and independent from religious convictions, centuries of overwhelming religious belief still impact our collective view on morality.
I wonder what the actual numbers are after serial killers are interviewed to see what their beliefs or lack of beliefs are.
Polls also show that no atheist could be elected president, although that may be changing slightly.
I wonder what the actual numbers are after serial killers are interviewed to see what their beliefs or lack of beliefs are.
Also interesting is that most convicted felons probably identify as a certain religion, particularly Christian. I've seen Christians actually say atheists are not or cannot be moral simply because they are atheists. As if fealty to a god or religion is necessary for morality.
I've seen Christians actually say atheists are not or cannot be moral simply because they are atheists. As if fealty to a god or religion is necessary for morality.
Which is, of course, an absurd position for them to take. Morality and religion do not go hand in hand.
All the Germans in charge of the concentration camps were good Catholics/Christians. I don't think religion has anything to do with psychopathy...
Question:
What is a Theos
Tribes that worship Mountains, Rivers etc: Are they Theists?
When a statements is made " Every one that does [ My Will ] ( Whether it is knowingly or Unknowingly )will is acceptable to me " would indicate what?
I wonder how many replied that serial killers are Muslims.
Cornhumper4palin posted a similar article in his Christian group, solely to disparage atheists. It included this :
Yeah, what about terrorists? A jihadi who kills will be dismissed by most Muslims as having perverted the faith. A Christian murderer will be rejected by other Christians as having obviously ignored the teachings of Christ. The killer can claim to be a religious believer but he’s not really a religious believer, the argument goes, since he’s misunderstood the doctrines. There’s no corresponding out in atheism. If you don’t believe in God, you’re a nonbeliever by definition. It doesn’t matter how strong your personal moral code might be or the extent to which your behavior contradicts it. Every atheist is a “real” atheist.
This is a topic I address often. The fact is, the average Christian is going to absolutely agree that a jihadist is a real Muslim, while simultaneously insisting that murderers and other generally horrible people who claim to be Christians are not real Christians. These are the same people who will frequently cite high statistics of what percentage of America is Christian as well. I've personally known more than a few Catholics who have had abortions.
If you say you are a Christian, then you are a Christian, period. Same goes for Muslims and any other variety of religionist. Same goes for atheists, as would be expected.
anyone but christians i guess. i have never seen murderers broke down by religious belief. it might be an interesting look.
while simultaneously insisting that murderers and other generally horrible people who claim to be Christians are not real Christians.
Nothing like the No True Scotsman fallacy, eh?
These are the same people who will frequently cite high statistics of what percentage of America is Christian as well.
In the same breath, they'll say America is a Christian nation and/or founded on Christian principles too.
If you don’t believe in God, you’re a nonbeliever by definition.
This is another contradiction by our resident Bible thumper. He insists that atheism is a belief system (and thus a religion in itself), yet he seeds an article that refutes that idea the say way I do every time he makes the absurd claim. If religions are channels on the tv, atheism is the off button.
insists that atheism is a belief system (and thus a religion in itself),
I always get a chuckle from that claim. I'm not sure if it's because that claim is such a contradiction in terms, or perhaps because some theists cannot fathom the possibility that some people simply don't believe in god/s nor hold religious belief. It's like the concept is truly alien to them.
Hal
"He insists that atheism is a belief system"
I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion, but I would say it is based on an individuals beliefs.
Can you list what those beliefs are? There's only one that I'm aware of. Even that one isn't as much of a belief as it is a nonbelief. Atheists aren't required to believe anything other than that there are no gods.
Hal
"Can you list what those beliefs are?"
There is only one, that god doesn't exist, this would be a personal belief.
"Even that one isn't as much of a belief as it is a nonbelief."
You are using the same narrow definition of belief as the poster claiming Atheism is a religion.
The word belief doesn't necessarily indicate religious belief, it can be any firmly held opinion
belief
NOUN
1 An acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
2 belief in Trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something)
A belief system is more than a single belief.
Hal
I think we're at cross purposes here, from my original post
"I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion"
This means I don't view Atheism as a system or religion.
But you also said this:
"I would say it is based on an individuals beliefs."
Beliefs (plural). Belief systems encompass multiple beliefs. Atheism does not, but your comment implies otherwise.
Hal
I'm sorry, but this is grasping at straws.
We all make simple mistakes, it's easier to admit them and move on.
If it helps I'm quite willing to accept saying "an individuals belief." would have been more accurate, although for me it doesn't scan as well.
You see, I'm not going to try and claim
That I was talking about multiple individuals
I'm not going to point out that people can, and do hold many beliefs. They can believe there is no god, they can believe in democracy, even in love at first sight, holding more than one belief isn't an issue
But I'm not going to do any of that
Why?
Because it would be pathetic
Now, are you willing to accept you got the wrong end of the stick, or not?
Sorry, but for years now here I've been making the case that atheism is nothing but the single belief that gods don't exist. You come along one day and in plain English claim atheists have beliefs, which is contrary to my long standing claim. I ask you to list what those beliefs are, and you can't. Now you want me to admit that I am being petty about your remark. That's pretty laughable.
@hal-a-lujah:Sorry, but for years now here I've been making the case that atheism is nothing but the single belief that gods don't exist
BOLD added by E.A am I missing something "" but the single belief ""
Apparently you are missing something. If you can't follow the conversation, I'm not going to repeat it all again for you. A single belief is not a belief system.
ok I posted your words, that do!
|Hal
A single belief is not a belief system.
Which I never said Atheism was, this is what you misunderstood, you can either accept it, or not.
But this is a written format, everyone can see that I never claimed it was a belief system!
Hal
I ask you to list what those beliefs are, and you can't.
In my very first reply to you I stated
"There is only one, that god doesn't exist, this would be a personal belief."
Did you accept that, no you didn't, instead you replied
A belief system is more than a single belief.
In my very first post, to which you replied, I stated I didn't view Atheism as a system, or religion
If you haven't misunderstood my original post, why would you be talking about belief systems?
I gave you an out, you could have taken it, but you didn't
so, as to your point
"Now you want me to admit that I am being petty about your remark."
I would suggest the petty nature of the posts are self evident.
Your words:
I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion, but I would say it is based on an individuals beliefs.
My response:
Can you list what those beliefs are?
Your subsequent response
There is only one, that god doesn't exist, this would be a personal belief.
It should have ended right there with you admitting it is a single belief, not a system of beliefs. You chose to go into the weeds about that one single belief. What the hell is your point anyways?
Hal
It should have ended right there with you admitting it is a single belief, not a system of beliefs.
The s on the end of belief had no significance, for example
As yet we have no concrete evidence for the existence of aliens, therefore it is a matter of an individuals personal beliefs.
I had no intention of claiming it was a system, I'd already stated I didn't see it as such, what part of this can't you grasp?
You replied
Can you list what those beliefs are?
At this point I had no idea you were making a song and dance routine out of an s that had no significance for me, so I quite innocently replied
"There is only one, that god doesn't exist, this would be a personal belief."
I noted you were using the old nonbelief ploy I've seen some Atheist use, primarily I consider it's to differentiate between their use of the word belief, and that of the Theist, it really isn't necessary.
Then you came back with this
A belief system is more than a single belief.
I realised at this point you'd misunderstood my position, so I replied
"I think we're at cross purposes here, from my original post
"I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion"
This means I don't view Atheism as a system or religion."
Was I aggressive about it?
No.
Was I condescending about it?
No.
How did you respond?
But you also said this:
"I would say it is based on an individuals beliefs."
Beliefs (plural). Belief systems encompass multiple beliefs. Atheism does not, but your comment implies otherwise.
Highlighted section by AFM
It's a textbook attempt at rationalisation.
Why?
It directly contradicts that which I'd already stated, to wit
"I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion"
Let me give you some free advice, we all make mistakes, we all misunderstand sometimes, it isn't a big deal unless we make it so!
I'm sure the disconnect between us is a function of the medium we are communicating in. Face to face this exchange would have been resolved at the point we acknowledged that atheism is one belief, not a system of beliefs. Using the word 'beliefs', instead of 'belief', to describe what makes one an atheist goes against my point, no matter what you think is common parlance. You can't understand that, and I won't agree with your ugly characterization of my side of this exchage, so it's time to stop insulting one another and move on.
Hal
Face to face this exchange would have been resolved at the point we acknowledged that atheism is one belief, not a system of beliefs.
One small problem, I didn't claim it was a system of beliefs, this was a claim you made for me.
Using the word 'beliefs', instead of 'belief', to describe what makes one an atheist goes against my point, no matter what you think is common parlance.
Your point directly contradicted the first part of my post, so either I changed my mind halfway through, or you misunderstood. I don't think a different medium would have altered this.
You can't understand that, and I won't agree with your ugly characterization of my side of this exchage, so it's time to stop insulting one another and move on.
No, it wouldn't fit with the attempted rationisation, however, the continued denial masquerading as an appeal to reasonableness, does.
Let me show you something
I think we're at cross purposes here, from my original post
Note the use of the words I think, and we're, this is what I consider being reasonable looks like.
As does this
We all make simple mistakes, it's easier to admit them and move on.
Again, note the use of the words we all
And here
If it helps I'm quite willing to accept saying "an individuals belief." would have been more accurate, although for me it doesn't scan as well.
Note the highlighted part, you see I was even willing to accept the asinine assertion, that the use of an s contradicted a clearly stated position, to wit
I'd draw the line at calling it a system, or a religion, but I would say it is based on an individuals beliefs.
If you believe in Zeus, Apollo, Hermes, etc. would you be considered an atheist?
@ozzwald :
No, they're all gods.
Sorry it took so long to answer, I was away.
Isn't an atheist someone who does not believe in God? Well, then, it is a belief system.....I do not believe in God. I, personally, don't care. There are as many moral atheists as there are moral Christians. One only assumes that when a crime is committed that if this person is not Muslim, Jewish, or whatever....he must be a Christian. Take Timothy McVeigh....how did they determine he was a Christian? Because twenty years prior he went to Church?
And, let me tell you something......Christians commit crimes just like any other group of people. Because I am a Christian doesn't mean that I am better than you morally. It means that I believe in God through Jesus Christ. It means that I try to live according to his doctrine, but I ire.
I believe that the color green is a combination of blue and yellow. Does that sound like a belief system to you?
Atheism is not a belief system. In fact it is the very opposite. It is a non-belief. It is that lack of any belief one way or another. Atheists do not not believe in a god. I know it's a difficult concept for some people to grasp.
Well, a study of 3200 people in a world with how many billion doesn't really seem like good source material.
If you really think about it, in a world where there is a creator god that is omniscient and omnipotent, nothing actually happens that isn't god's will. So, believers should proudly embrace the fact that serial killing is on god's agenda for some people. Own it.
Free will is not incompatible with an omniscient God, although I do agree that God would have to know about the murders in some way shape or form.
The pretense of free will certainly isn't incompatible, but in a world where everything is something god is aware of and already knew was going to happen, that is all it is....a pretense of free will. I mean, everything that is, was, and will be is already known by a creator being that is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Since there are no surprises to said deity, then there actually is no free will.....only the pretense of free will, although even that in and of itself is unnecessary unless you are simply toying with the things you created.....most likely out of boredom.
Human beings always experience free will. There is never an instant when a person is conscious that he does not experience free will. It's not even possible for a conscious person to not experience free will.
What possible difference does it make if it is a 'pretense' ? other than as a topic of discussion
While I agree that humans have free will, I also don't agree that there is a god. Free will and God are mutually exclusive however. But yeah, it's an interesting topic of conversation.
If God knows the future then there is no free will for people.
So it goes.
God knows the future , not the people. And even if someone thinks they don't have free will because God knows their future, they still have free will , and cannot help but have free will.
I agree it is an interesting topic.
Indeed. To be continued another time. Gotta re-acclimate myself with the site.
Human beings always experience free will.
As will all other living organisms to ever exist. Free will is a nonsense concept, as there is no alternative to having free will.
So then this question would be easy to answer::
Did energy become sentient?
@Johnrussell : " Free will is not incompatible with an omniscient God, ... "
I disagree. Free will is impossible if omniscience is possible.
If God knows everything (omniscience) then reality is deterministic. Simply stated, if God knows you are going to divorce your wife in 5 years (being omniscient) then you truly do not have free will. You will make choices that seem like free will but if you do divorce your wife in 5 years it is pretty obvious that your future was predictable (at least by an omniscient being).
To wit, if God is omniscient then reality is deterministic (predictable). That means no free will. Not possible.
Never under-estimate the threats posed by Cereal Killers!
The threat is all too real..
THEY ARE OUT THERE!
It is not a fact that god or gods don't exist. It is also not a fact that there isn't a peperoni and banana pepper pizza sitting under a rock on the dark side of the moon. Both are equally feasible.