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Corporate Tax Cuts Promote CEO Pay Raises and Stock Buybacks, Not Jobs

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  larry-hampton  •  7 years ago  •  81 comments

Corporate Tax Cuts Promote CEO Pay Raises and Stock Buybacks, Not Jobs

Corporate tax cuts would be a major windfall for American corporations. For American workers, perhaps not so much.

The 92 companies examined saw median job growth of negative 1% over an eight-year period, compared to 6% across the entire U.S. private sector. Moreover, half of those firms eliminated jobs during that time, downsizing by a combined total of 483,000 jobs.


At the same time, average CEO pay among the 92 firms rose by 18%, compared to a 13% increase across the entire S&P 500. Private sector worker pay during that time increased by just 4%. CEOs at the 48 companies that cut jobs did especially well, bringing in $14.9 million on average in 2016 compared to $13.1 million across the S&P.

~LINK~


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Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
1  seeder  Larry Hampton    7 years ago

"We...need a tax reform debate that dispenses with the fantastical notion that corporate tax cuts will automatically create good jobs for American workers,"

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Larry Hampton @1    7 years ago

I suspect we'll have that conversation about the time we dispense with the idea that we can solve almost any economic problem by simply "taxing the rich".

So not in either of our lifetimes.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
1.1.1  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1    7 years ago

Read the article then, as it is not about taxing the rich, it is about the motor that drives our economy, the workers of America, getting more considerations than they are getting under this Tax Bill, instead of giving our hard earned pay back to corporations.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.1.1    7 years ago
Read the article then, as it is not about taxing the rich

My comment was not intended as a reflection on the article.  It was more to point out the baseless blind beliefs that permeate both ends of the political spectrum.

It is highly unlikely that this tax cut will create more jobs.  It is also unlikely that it will actually be damaging to middle class workers. 

It's certainly fair to question the wisdom of a tax cut intended as an economic stimulus during a period of full employment and 3-4% GDP growth.  But the history of American govt is one of questionable decisions.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.2    7 years ago

JackTX,

Thanks for further clarifying your point.

I agree with much of what you're saying. A couple of things about Middle Class workers. The permanency of the cut given is relevant; another, the sheer difference of preference given to, yet again, corporations, and Wall Street. I haven't seen the case made for either of those, that have them turn their profits back to the very engine that creates the fruits of the labor. I truly see it as poor, even hurtful maintenance.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Professor Quiet
1.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.1.3    7 years ago
Thanks for further clarifying your point.

No worries.

I agree with much of what you're saying.

Thanks.

A couple of things about Middle Class workers. The permanency of the cut given is relevant;

I'm not so sure.  The Reagan tax cuts were intended to be permanent, but undone by Clinton within a decade.  Tax rates change all the time, so worrying about what happens in 2026 seems a bit like worrying I won't have a fashionable wardrobe in the year 2485.

another, the sheer difference of preference given to, yet again, corporations, and Wall Street. I haven't seen the case made for either of those, that have them turn their profits back to the very engine that creates the fruits of the labor.

We need a corporate tax cut, and let me tell you why.  It has absolutely zero to do with jobs or trickling down or growth or anything of that sort...none of which it's going to do anyway.  It's about playing defense.  It's about keeping businesses in the US, and creating an environment where new businesses want to start. 

Our corporate rate is the highest in the developed world.  Germany's is 15%.  Ireland's is 12.5%.  The world average is 22%.   Our top rate is 39%...which matches the economic powerhouses of Argentina, Equatorial Guinea, and Chad.  For years we've seen big multinationals move overseas and/or refuse to bring the money they make overseas back home.  Businesses can become global very easily now, so the competition is much greater than it was when our current tax rates were drafted.

So I'm not so concerned about that.  It's a "stop the bleeding" measure, and I think it's in the long term best interest of the average American.

I truly see it as poor, even hurtful maintenance.

Yeah....but it's not more harmful than any of the other $150 billion/yr government screw ups.  It's a pretty low standard, I realize.  This one at least lets regular people keep a little more of their own money.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
1.1.6  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.5    7 years ago

Stopping the bleeding is appropriate, and imo may be more effectively applied by greasing the motor.

A salient point where we may narrow a difference of opinion is with the preference given to corporations, rather than average Americans. I say this not only because of the Tax break difference; but, as well to the basic misassumption that not maintaining the engine that drives the economy is adequate. This engine already being on an uphill climb due much cheaper labor overseas, is in dire need of more than a mere tune-up, it needs an overhaul. The Tax Bill up is barely a bandage, especially in comparison to corporate concerns. 

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
1.2  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Larry Hampton @1    7 years ago
Corporate Tax Cuts Promote CEO Pay Raises And Stock Buybacks, Not Jobs

Hate to rain on your little pity party, but...

President Trump has already created more new manufacturing jobs than Obama did in his entire 8 years!  And he did it by flushing Obama regulations down the toilet!!

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
1.2.1  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @1.2    7 years ago

Hate to break it to ya,

But this article is about The current tax Bill. The deregulation article must be somewhere else.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
1.2.2  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.2.1    7 years ago

My comment was directly related to your statement, and how deregulation affects the economy.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.3  XXJefferson51  replied to  Larry Hampton @1    7 years ago

Did you oppose the Reagan and or Bush41 tax cuts too? 

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
Professor Quiet
3  Dean Moriarty    7 years ago

Institute for Policy Studies, a left-leaning think tank

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
3.1  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3    7 years ago

So you don't refute the findings then.

Gotchya, thanks.

:~)

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Larry Hampton @3.1    7 years ago

That name when it comes to tax issues is refutation enough.  They have never been right about anything when it comes to the economic impact of tax cuts.  

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4  Bob Nelson    7 years ago

Corporations make investments (human or machine) when there is high demand for product, thus a need to increase output. Only!

If a corporation has money but no need to increase output, it will either bank the money or distribute it to management / shareholders.

Duh...

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
4.2  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Bob Nelson @4    7 years ago
Corporations make investments (human or machine) when there is high demand for product, thus a need to increase output. Only!

That is probably one of the lowest thought comments I've ever seen you make, and that is saying something!

Your comment assumes that a corporation is at it's highest value that it can possibly reach, therefore any further investment in it is futile.

Here is your assignment bob... Name any corporation in the world that has reached it's ultimate earning potential...

(Hint)...  To reach that goal, it would mean that every person in the world is purchasing the corporations product at the maximum disposable income that the person has...  good luck, you have one month to complete your assignment.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
4.2.1  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @4.2    7 years ago
That is probably one of the lowest thought comments I've ever seen you make, and that is saying something!

Caveman stick to discussing the article, don't discuss other members.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
4.2.2  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Larry Hampton @4.2.1    7 years ago

Ok.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
4.3  tomwcraig  replied to  Bob Nelson @4    7 years ago

You are assuming that the company has a monopoly and that everyone in the world will or wants to buy that company's product(s).  That is the only way of getting to the point that a company will only increase its output when it feels like it and then give the money to the shareholders.  Most companies in the real world are constantly expanding to meet demand unless and until the demand for their product(s) drop off, or until they run out of money and cannot get more.  For example, just look at the history of Sears Roebuck.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
4.3.1  Bob Nelson  replied to  tomwcraig @4.3    7 years ago
You are assuming that the company has a monopoly and that everyone in the world will or wants to buy that company's product(s). 

No.

That is the only way of getting to the point that a company will only increase its output when it feels like it and then give the money to the shareholders. 

No.

Most companies in the real world are constantly expanding to meet demand unless and until the demand for their product(s) drop off, or until they run out of money and cannot get more.

No.

Other than that... we agree... patience

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
5  Hal A. Lujah    7 years ago

When nearly everything on the shelves at every big box store is manufactured abroad by workers getting paid pennies per hour, manufacturing will not be coming back. That is the only significant way to fuel American economic growth, and it’s off the table until the rest of the world deals with their own income disparities - to the point where it finally stops making sense to ship widget parts half way around the world and back before hitting those shelves.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6  Capt. Cave Man    7 years ago
When nearly everything on the shelves at every big box store is manufactured abroad by workers getting paid pennies per hour, manufacturing will not be coming back.

President Trump and the Republicans have already proved you wrong.

GDP looks to hit 4% this year, that is compared to 1.5% under Obozo.

additionally,

President Trump is about to make the U.S. corperate tax rate in line with the rest of the world, making it feasible to operate in the U.S. again!

You should be getting up off your partisan ass and worship the name Trump!  He is making America great again!!

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
6.1  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6    7 years ago

President Trump is about to make the U.S. corperate tax rate in line with the rest of the world, making it feasible to operate in the U.S. again!

So you think other governments won't also do the same?! Pppphhhhtttt......

That's right, lets just continue to give the paychecks we work so hard for back to corporations so they may pay out gigantic bonuses and buy back stock. /s/

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.1.1  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Larry Hampton @6.1    7 years ago
So you think other governments won't also do the same?!

They may.  So, we need to match them.. The end game will be how efficiently we spend our tax revenue, vs. the rest of the world.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Larry Hampton @6.1    7 years ago

Yeah, like THAT has EVER happened in America!

get real!

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
6.1.4  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Have Opinion Will Travel @6.1.2    7 years ago

I'm not, but the government is taking your money any ways and giving it to corporations.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
6.1.6  XXJefferson51  replied to  Larry Hampton @6.1.4    7 years ago

Really?  What percentage of the money the federal government takes away from me does it then turn around and give to the evil corporate America?  

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
6.1.8  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  LMM @6.1.7    7 years ago

Oh how quickly they forget...

The  Great Recession  (2007–2012) was a period of general economic decline observed in world markets during the late 2000s and early 2010s. The scale and timing of the recession varied from country to country. [1] [2]  In terms of overall impact, the  International Monetary Fund  concluded that it was the worst global recession since the 1930s (the  Great Depression ). [3] [4]  The causes of the recession largely originated in the United States, particularly related to the real-estate market, though choices made by other nations contributed as well. According to the U.S.  National Bureau of Economic Research  (the official arbiter of U.S. recessions) the recession, as experienced in that country, began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, thus extending over 19 months. [5]  The Great Recession was related to the  financial crisis of 2007–08  and U.S.  subprime mortgage crisis  of 2007–09. The Great Recession resulted in the scarcity of valuable assets in the market economy and the collapse of the financial sector (banks) in the world economy. The banks were then bailed out by the U.S. government. [6] [7]

~WIKI~

See that last line, "bailed out by the US government"? That's not money that magically goes to the government from some unknown source, it came from you and me, and everybody else on this forum.Middle America paid for it.

The majority report provided by U.S.  Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission , composed of six Democratic and four Republican appointees, reported its findings in January 2011. It concluded that "the crisis was avoidable and was caused by:

  • Widespread failures in financial regulation, including the Federal Reserve's failure to stem the tide of toxic mortgages;
  • Dramatic breakdowns in corporate governance including too many financial firms acting recklessly and taking on too much risk;
  • An explosive mix of excessive borrowing and risk by households and Wall Street that put the financial system on a collision course with crisis;
  • Key policy makers ill prepared for the crisis, lacking a f ull understanding of the financial system they oversaw; and systemic breaches in accountability and ethics at all levels." [35]
 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
6.2  Dulay  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6    7 years ago
President Trump and the Republicans have already proved you wrong.
GDP looks to hit 4% this year, that is compared to 1.5%

Please DO explain WTF the GDP has to do with the origin of products on Big Box shelves. 

The abundance of foreign made products in our shelves illustrates the trade deficit and Trump's not doing too hot. 

The nation's international trade deficit in goods and services increased to $48.7 billion in October from $44.9 billion in September (revised), as exports decreased and imports increased. (December 5, 2017)

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.1  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Dulay @6.2    7 years ago

What's your point?

Manufacturing is up all across the board, the economy is sky high and going higher...

And you want to argue about Wal-Mart selling a pair of underwear made in the Honduras?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.2.2  Bob Nelson  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.1    7 years ago
the economy is sky high...

By what measure? Not by employee pay...

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
Professor Quiet
6.2.3  seeder  Larry Hampton  replied to  Dulay @6.2    7 years ago

 That is exactly a perfectly valid criticism; what is the benefit in that? Middle Class workers pay reflects it too.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
6.2.4  Dulay  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.1    7 years ago
What's your point?

My point is that you are comparing apples and artichokes. I note that you have NO answer to my question.

Manufacturing is up all across the board,

As it has been since 2010. The POINT is, WHY are the VAST MAJORITY of products on our shelves made elsewhere. 

the economy is sky high and going higher...

By what metrics?

The ONLY 'sky high' metric I see is the stock market [corporate income/value] and Trump STILL alleges that they need MORE. 

And you want to argue about Wal-Mart selling a pair of underwear made in the Honduras?

No, I'd rather talk about Walmart selling houseware, sporting goods, bikes, TVs, cameras, DVRs, computers and phones ALL made elsewhere. 

Or how about Home Depot selling Grills, lawn mowers, snow blowers, compressors, pumps, lighting and tools ALL made elsewhere? 

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.5  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Dulay @6.2.4    7 years ago

Well, now that Republicans, and President Trump, are making it less costly to produce their products in the U.S.A.  We should start seeing much more "Made in the U.S.A."

Thank God for President Trump!

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Quiet
6.2.6  magnoliaave  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.5    7 years ago

I hope so.  I, once, only bought Made in U.S. merchandise, but had to quit that.  Maybe, it will return.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
6.2.7  Dulay  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.5    7 years ago
Well, now that Republicans, and President Trump, are making it less costly to produce their products in the U.S.A. 

Must have missed it, when did that happen? 

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.8  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Dulay @6.2.7    7 years ago

I believe the vote will happen by this Friday.  It will be a party line vote, so the Democrats will lose.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.9  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.5    7 years ago

Well, now that Republicans, and President Trump, are making it less costly to produce their products in the U.S.A.

In Mexico, factory workers don't make enough to afford a place to live, so they and their families live in cardboard boxes outside of the factories that used to be in the US.  In China, workers pull excessively long and low paying shifts, and live in dormitories where the otherwise empty rooms have walls that are just lined with bunk beds.  They started lining the building exteriors with nets to cut down on the number of suicides, because so many workers were leaping to their deaths.  This is what you think we are going to compete with?

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.10  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.9    7 years ago
In Mexico, factory workers don't make enough to afford a place to live, so they and their families live in cardboard boxes outside of the factories

Not that I give a flying fuck how a family in Mexico lives, but, could you provide a link to what you claim?

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.2.11  Bob Nelson  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.9    7 years ago

"Race to the bottom..."

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.12  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.10    7 years ago

could you provide a link to what you claim?

I'm not certain which politician I heard make that claim, but I had no reason to doubt their observations on the ground when they went to visit an auto manufacturing plant that moved from the US to Mexico.  If you are skeptical that Mexican factory workers earn anywhere from $7/day to $3/hr doing the work once done by Americans for $20/hr+/-, then perhaps you should just google it yourself.  It's not difficult.

Not that I give a flying fuck how a family in Mexico lives

That explains why you have no idea what I'm talking about.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.13  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.12    7 years ago
perhaps you should just google it yourself.  It's not difficult.

I didn't make the claim, you did.

But ok, I'll google it anyway, since your to lazy...

"U.S. workers get $28 an hour versus about $5.50 in Mexico," says Bernard Swiecki, a senior automotive analyst at the Center for Automotive Research.

$5.50 an hour... hell of a lot more than the bullshit you are spouting...  So then I have to wonder about housing prices, vs. the cardboard box you are claiming...

Not bad for $41,000... 

Now I forgot what we were arguing about, but whatever it was, I'm sure I won.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.14  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.13    7 years ago

While you continue to fellate your master Trump, this is what we are competing against.

Dale Evans, the owner of Evco Plastics, is not ashamed to admit that recently he’s been hiring more people in Mexico than in Wisconsin — or Dongguan, China.
In the last two years, Evco has added 100 people to its three Mexican plants, and has been hiring more slowly in its five U.S. facilities. Meanwhile, the company is shrinking two Chinese plants into one.

But Evans says that being able to give clients the option of getting their plastic parts made in Mexico more cheaply has allowed him to move much of his 500-member staff in Wisconsin and Georgia to higher-skilled tasks, such as programming robots. 

“The easy things — people picking things up and putting them in boxes — that [work] left,” said Evans. It’s too expensive for him to employ rote manual laborers in America.
He has instead invested in training his employees to maintain huge, potentially dangerous robots handling plastic parts. “The difficult things you can do with machinery, that stayed.”
The shift is driven in part by labor costs.

Evans says he used to pay Chinese workers $1 an hour, but now pays them closer to $3 per hour. In Mexico, he says, he now pays a typical plastics assembler around $4 per hour, which is just a dollar more than what he paid when he first set up shop there in 2001.

“It’s just gotten cheaper in Mexico,” Evans said.

One of the workers who has benefited is Tania Berenice Salazar, a 25-year-old from Monterrey. The single mom was working as a cashier earning about $1.60 per hour before she got an entry-level job packing up plastic materials at Evco in 2012.

Now she supervises other packagers and makes about $1.80 per hour, even as the peso has plummeted. That’s significantly above the minimum wage in Mexico of around $4 per day.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.15  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.14    7 years ago

So, I see you don't want to talk about auto manufacturing any more, eh?

Fine, whatever.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.16  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.15    7 years ago

Lol - the article I linked is specifically about auto manufacturing.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.17  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.16    7 years ago
Evco Plastics

Uh huh...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.18  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.17    7 years ago

I’m going to let you in on a secret - there are a lot of plastic parts in cars.

You’re welcome.

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.20  Capt. Cave Man  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @6.2.18    7 years ago
I’m going to let you in on a secret - there are a lot of plastic parts in cars.

I'm going to let you in on a secret - we were discussing an automotive factory, you moved the conversation to a plastics factory, yes the plastics may be used in cars, but it is not the same work, it is not the same factory.  Now, if you are smart enough to discuss the employee's that install the plastic parts in the cars, then go for it.  I don't think you can at this point.

Let me break it down into terms that you can understand...   We were talking about a Burger King store that sells the Whopper, then, for whatever reason, you started talking about the ranch where cows are raised...

You need to focus...

 
 
 
Capt. Cave Man
Freshman Silent
6.2.21  Capt. Cave Man  replied to    7 years ago
I ask you and the forum, who'd do that here in the states?

Me.

You go from line staff to a supervisor, and get a raise?  No Brainer!!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.22  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.20    7 years ago

Seeing as you are too lazy to actually click on the link where the plastics quote was taken from, I'll provide a little more of the article for you:

As she spoke, two nearby plastic injection robots were loudly stamping out pieces of dashboards for Mexican-made Kia sedans and lamp fixtures.  The drab Evco factory floor in Monterrey sounds like the inside of a washing machine.

U.S.-supplied raw materials account for 60% of the cost of the plastic incubators and ATV parts the company makes in Mexico. For Evco’s China plant, the figure is just 15%.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
6.2.23  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Capt. Cave Man @6.2.21    7 years ago

You go from line staff to a supervisor, and get a raise?

tumblr_m325lrnSfr1qf3hns.jpg

No Brainer!!

No comment ... lol.

 
 
 
Bob Nelson
Professor Guide
6.2.24  Bob Nelson  replied to    7 years ago
But going from being a cashier @ ~$1.60/hr to supervising a group of packagers @ ~$1.80 isn't worth it.

That's a 12.5% wage hike, which most likely was pretty significant. We don't know the cost of living, so we don't know what those wages are worth in absolute terms.

 
 
 
tomwcraig
Junior Silent
7  tomwcraig    7 years ago

The question that should be asked is if the rate is lowered are the loopholes going to be closed?  IF the loopholes are closed, then these corporations like AT&T and Exxon that are paying less than 20% now will pay more than their current effective rates of 8.1% (AT&T) and 13.6% (Exxon).  Keep that in consideration before claiming that the marginal tax rate cuts won't benefit workers.

 
 

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