Let's Stop the Fantasy of the 25th Amendment: There Is No Way It's Going To Happen
For once in my life, I am in total agreement with my friends on the right. The idea of removing Donald Trump from the presidency is a pipedream. I am not saying that Mr. Trump is a competent president. I am not even saying that the man deserves to be president {but that is the topic for another discussion}. What I am saying is that the use of the 25th Amendment to remove this president is both the wrong approach and doomed to failure before it even gets off the ground. This for a variety of reasons.
First, the purpose of the 25th Amendment was to remove a president who was absolutely incapable of doing the duties of the presidency. The amendment is designed to remove a president who is totally incapacitated. This would be a person who had a serious stroke and was non-responsive, had a heart attack and was on life support, or had such a degree of mental derangement as to have lost all contact with reality. While I and many others don't agree with any part of this president's agenda or other actions, I would not wish any of those ailments upon the man. As for his mental state, he is certainly a narcissistic megalomaniac who ascended to the presidency with selfish goals in mind, but he was elected to the position with the electorate fully aware of these character flaws. They may be abhorrent, but they don't rise to the 25th amendment.
Second, the use of the 25th amendment requires a unified national politic. To implement the amendment the vice president, 2/3 of the cabinet and 2/3 of both houses of congress have to vote for implementation. In the political arena that we are in today, the possibility of getting to 2/3 in agreement to do something as major as removing a president who is of the same party as the majority of congress is an insane dream.
I make no excuses for my disgust with Donald Trump. As a liberal and a Democrat, I will do everything that I can to insure that the man is a one term president. I am, however, a realist and a person of the moment. Donald Trump is the elected president of the United States. He will remain in that position, barring death or an act that rises to treason or sedition until January 20, 2021. This country can, however, do the realistic thing to stop the onslaught of policies and actions that are against the best interests of the electorate. There is an election in November of 2018. Those elections will have the opportunity to reshape congress and stop any outlandish agenda that Mr. Trump keeps proposing. If the national polls are correct, there will be a massive change in the governance of this nation. If they are wrong, we will see six more years of Trumpian politics and anti-worker, anti-woman, anti-equality legislation. That doesn't seem to be the case, as there have been huge swings in recent elections toward democrats.
Equally important will be statewide elections. We are approaching redistricting and in order to insure fair elections in the future, there must be a concerted effort to change state houses and assemblies to reflect politicians who will arrange districts fairly. We are entering a critical year. That year can't be spent talking and working toward a pipe dream. All that does is deflect the electorate from the real issues at hand. Forget about the 25th amendment and work on organizing for the election of people who will represent the people of this country. That has to be everyone's primary goal.
As an independent, I totally agree, and find your article a breath of fresh air. You are 100% correct when you say:
Totally agree.
Ditto
ditto cubed
The problem, as I see it, is if the Democrats keep going this direction instead of figuring out what they need to do so they don't lose the next presidential election to someone equally distasteful as President Trump is. They keep playing this silliness, they will run out of time and be forced to retread Hillary yet again, when it is obvious she is just as bad or a worse choice for the presidency. The lets make Trump look bad didn't work before the election and since, I truly believe that peopel are getting sick of the constant 'Trump tore a mattress tag off, so we need to implement the 25th Amendment'.
That seems to be the stupid apporach they are taking right now and it makes no real sense.
That's why Trump got elected in the first place.
I think the really sad thing is the gossip so many are engaged in on this issue. "He went to bed at 6 with McDonalds! He's insane! Invoke the 25th Amendment!" or "He calls people names! He's insane! Invoke the 25th Amendment!"
As if none of us ever ate fast food in bed or called someone a juvenile name.
There's also a tremendous amount of hubris in the bold declarations that he's got dementia or something. First of all, it's ageist as hell. Donald Trump has always been pretty out there and we recognized him as a rich eccentric when he was 40. Now that's he's 70, it must be Alzheimer's. When I look at Trump, I see the same person in 2017 that I saw in 1990.
But to the point of the hubris - the ego - this is something people engage in all through their lives. If you have a kid in middle school, I guarantee they think you're stupid - at least once a day. Where does a 12 year-old get off thinking he knows more than Mom or Dad? When we get into our 20s or 30s, we start to look at ordinary behavior in our parents (like forgetting a name or where the car keys went) and wondering if Dad is finally "losing it."
We cannot be in a person's mind. We don't know all the pressures they feel or all the factors they weigh in making a decision. We don't know what competes for their attention. But to just assume that someone who disagrees with us does so because they must be crazy has got to be the height of egomania and far too many people engage in it with the president.
Sometimes I think that the talk of using the 25th amendment is actually something that the Republican party wants to maintain as a diversion from the real issues that we are facing. As I stated, the 25th amendment is a red herring. It can't and won't happen, nor should it happen. But there are many other much more important things out there that the Republicans do not want people talking about. There is a very unpopular tax bill that was passed that has a lower approval rating than any tax hike in history. The release of the fusion tapes is devastating news for the presidency. The possibility of the president being asked or subpoenaed to testify before the Mueller investigation is anything but good news for the president. Congress doesn't want people talking about their horrible approval record and potential wave election coming up.
All in all, it might behoove the Republican party to stoke the fires of the 25th amendment and blame it on the democrats. It is a perfect deflect and deceive methodology and must be ignored by those in the center and on the left.
Or, the Republicans might be sitting back enjoying watching the Dems dig their own grave for the next presidential election.......as they spend all their time on the 'Ohmigod, Trump left the toilet seat up!' news flashes and media discussions evaluating his sanity, while doing nothing to address their own problems that allowed Trump to win in the first place........
Good article! But you’ll never convince people to give up the fantasy. There were many who bought into the fantasy of removing Obama from Office right up to the end.
Why would President Obama be removed? Not one person guilty of any malfeasance in his whole freaking administration.
That was the repuke fantasy!
Killing US citizens would be just one of many reasons.
Bingo, the only cabinet memeber in history to be held in contempt for withholding evidence was also in charge of prosecuting criminals. Talk About the fox guarding the hen house.
no wonder Trump has publicly wished for an AG who was loyal and would protect him like Eric holder.
"Killing US citizens would be just one of many reasons. "
Skirting the CoC [ph]
Skirting the CoC [ph]
Really? Since when do Muslims eat ribs?
You are hilarious today. No malfeasance? Is that why pleading the 5th was a national pastime for Obama cabinet members?
Skirting the CoC [ph]
Skirting the CoC [ph]
So this is your cute way of referring to me as a trucker again?
That is a sweet "blind side back" though.
You must be looking in the mirror
This is how I choose to respond now to all the lies and nonsense y'all spout at me. Don't like it? Need a tissue?
How would you know if they were lies and nonsense. YOU tell EVERYONE you don't read and don't have to !
THAT YOU POST.
That doesn't mean I don't read at all but I do read the credible and legible sources that are 99% of the time supplied by the liberal leaning folks on here.
Also I love to read books both fiction and non-fiction - so I do READ A LOT
How is that you're CONSISTENTLY 100% INCORRECT ALL THE TIME?
Was I talking to you in the first place? You come stomping in here and give me a bunch of shit.
Don't respond to me any longer. I don't appreciate you coming in here like a cocky little rooster and you throwing your shit at me when I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
So YOU don't read, as YOU just noted. I got that part already, as I noted.
You say you "Don't have to read articles"....ALL THE TIME !
So, what's your thought on Congress needing to use the 25th amendment to get Trump out of office, and how does Trump fit the 25th Amendment scenario.
This would mean taking a very hard and honest look at the history of those holding office that are running for re-election. An alarming high number of them have a long history of representing only themselves and not the people in their state / district.
You're right......when we have a 93%+ re-election rate to congress for both Rs and Ds, the public is not doing their duty in reviewing the performance of their representatives. When congressional approval hovers in the teens, there should never be a 93% re-election rate. Now that may be changing with the inordinate amount of congresspersons announcing that they will not seek re-election. We might actually have races that mean something.
A narcissist megalomaniac who became president for selfish desires??
Now what other candidate from the last election does that remind me of?
I am not commenting on the personality of HRC. She is not president. Every person who has run for president has to have at least a bit of narcissistic personality. The only thing that I will say about her is that she would have at least surrounded herself with people who understood the process of governance, which really is a requisite for the position. Just about every president prior to this president was able to maintain process. This man can't even fill his own state department or the other departments of the executive branch of government. Qualified people don't want to serve. That is a sad narrative a year into his presidency.
Qualified people are eagerly taking positions from him.... in the form of judges. Granted they will be in office long after Trump has left but that is one of the under reported stories. As far as filling the various depts Trump has proven during the campaign he can do more with a leaner group and doesn't need a massive redundant bureaucracy. Not to mention that a lot of deep state holdovers have imbedded themselves and made it near impossible to remove them all.
Those judges for starters, he could have found more qualified people in a country bar at closing, at least they would have a clue.
Trumps doing a fine job, the one all 62 million of us elected him to do. If he pisses LWNJ's off that means he is doing the right things.
I give him two thumbs up and a couple of "atta boy Donald"!
What's his approval rating now 34%? Higher than I would expect, but then again repugnuts are like lemmings, and I just insulted lemmings.
So the people that told you Clinton had a 95% chance of winning is now telling you how dismal the Presidents approval rating is and you are lapping it right up.
The lowest approval rating in history - way to go Rump! Or should I say disapproval rating?
And he's STILL your President.
Yep. Making Russia and China great again! Taking our national credibility and flushing it! Making us the banana republic laughingstock of the world! Congrats! Of course, there is a little investigation going on, and they are following the money, among other things. tick tick tick
How !
Did our Allies change sides because of Trump ?
Relevancy 0, the question matters, but I expect you thought it pertinent.
We haven't got to trial, that stuff takes a while.
When you can no longer trust your friends, start looking for new friends.
Is that what our allies have actually done....or are you just adlibbing.
He's still the president, and Hillary is not, and life is good. Sorry about your's
NOPE, the highest DISAPPROVAL RATING
Mine is fine.
Yup, keep believeing those polls, when you have all the evidence you need to know that they can and have been manipulated.
He's still YOUR president - for now.
Like Lib50 said - tick, tick, tick
You don't sound fine, more like angry, unhappy, and depressed. Am I right?
Of course not, but you never are
In their small minds they did (somehow).
I never said he wasn't.
tick tick tick for another 3 years.
They don't even know what they are whining about anymore.
Well we'll see won't we?
tick, tick, tick
You did "in-depth research" from Lib50 on that comment......didn't you.
So PRESIDENT TRUMP hasn't hurt you one bit.
Good to know.
You ought to do a little 'in-depth research' yourself. Oh, I'm feeling generous. I'll do the work for you. (Hint: follow the money)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-adds-veteran-cyber-prosecutor-to-special-counsel-team/2018/01/10/860f3364-f585-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.db49487d0c6c
Liberals just don't get anything, do they.....but they sure do try to get you to "Believe".......CRAP !
CNN, Vox? and who else from the Media Left ?
Bet you see Armageddon since the tax cuts too !
Or maybe Crying Schumer moved you enough to allow EVERYONE into this country.
Thank Goodness for the electoral college and the STATES that said....."Hillary....The Left......HELL NO" !. Kinda like what has been happening to the "Left" since 2010.
The "Left" really needs to find a different sob story. The one they keep using ain't working......not ONE BIT !
Look, there will always be those who support a president regardless of the facts that unfold before them. Yes, the polls were wrong in 2016. The President turned those polls toward him within the margin of error. It should be noted that the popular vote, however, was within 1.1% of the average of all polls. It was the microcosm {the electoral vote} that was different. There were many reasons for this....... a democratic candidate who, to many, was as repugnant as Mr. Trump........ an insane set of circumstances that came out of the FBI with investigations, closings, reopenings, etc. that caused total confusion on the part of many voters, a proven effort by the Russian government to influence the election through carefully targeted advertising, and most of all, a disastrously run final three weeks of a campaign on the part of Mrs. Clinton. This led to an election where Mr. Trump won key states by minimal votes while Mrs. Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million. Those are all truths.... yet Mr. Trump is our duly elected president. The other truth, however, is that this president has been unpopular from day 1 and his approval by the American people has done nothing but decline. His approval rating has gone from 49 to 34%. It is possible that this could be a false bottom, but it is no more than 6 points off. That would still give him an approval rating of no more than 40% which would point to an electoral disaster for the republicans and Trump.
The tax bill has a 27% approval rating....given the standard error of measurement I'll concede a 33% approval rating...........repealing the ACA has a 66% disapproval rating, again given the standard error of measurement I'll concede a 60% disapproval.........74% of the nation wants to see a path to citizenship for DACA residents.....68% after the application of the standard error.........77% want to maintain a woman's right to choose....71% at the lowest. Pair that with the information on the Fusion GPS testimony {originally funded by republicans}, the indictments out of the Mueller investigation, whether for obstruction or money laundering or any other criminal activity is backing this president into a corner.
This is an administration that is in the most trouble of any administration since Andrew Johnson. The president is in a state of siege. Both he and the republican controlled congress have turned a deaf ear to the majority of the American people. Both the executive and legislative branches are trying to ramrod their pro-business, pro-wealthy agenda through before they are losers in the 2018 elections. Polls are occasionally wrong, but they are always within the margin of error. This upcoming election looks like a classic disaster for the republican party and Mr. Trump.
Those polls are all wrong, and so are your supposed "facts", as time will show. None of what you say really matters.
Trump will be president for three more years, and the majority of the Republican agenda will be accomplished.
No....Actual "People" voted him into office.
The ones they aren't listening to anymore are the Liberals and the progressive types.
You know the ones. California and New York....where most of those "Popular votes" came from for Hillary.
Thank Goodness for the Electoral college, or those two states, and a few other Bluely States, would be electing every official in DC.
Whew ! Life IS Good !
Of course they are!
"I believe the States elect who the President is."
Based on the State vote totals, the people in those states elected Trump. The electoral just followed suite, and for a good reason too.
You aren't understanding the principles behind polling. Polling is mega {national} and almost invariably accurate, as it was in 2016. The glitch was in four rust belt states, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan where the total vote separating the candidates was 82000......less than 1/10 of 1% of the total vote. That didn't change the result......Trump won those states and ultimately the election. It was a fluke in the system........If any of the Trump supporters think he could win those states again, they are the ones who are delusional. Current polling doesn't place any of these states within the margin of error for Trump. In 2016, he was within the margin in each of the states. No democrat will ever make that type of organizational mistake again.
There are not 62 million people in the EC. That is who elected him.
Since when has the fact that an idea is pure fantasy stopped a liberal? LMAO!
Or that honesty has a place in government affected a repuglithon!
A Hillary supporter no doubt. LMAO! Still can't stomach the fact that the Lying criminal the DNC tried to shove down everyone's throat lost.
republithuglicon
Been busy with a new job.
Aww, how clever and cute, but someone else made that up. I can do that too.
DemokkkRAT
Rethuglican.......typical, can't even use adult words in a discussion. Sad state of affairs.
Under a rock?
Doubt it seriously. Do not doubt that I am dead set against the destructor in chief that resides in a faux news and big mac saturation as his girth attempts to equal his ego. I am not so sure the 25th is totally out of play as he exhibits traits that dementia sufferers also share, now anyone that has witnessed the decline of that affliction know that onset to dysfunction can take years or in some cases months. and if he does suffer the disease even the GOP would have to act.
Can't yet read either I see, that wasn't what I wrote! Amazing that your buddy above never makes a single comment without several derogatory references probably gleaned from limprags show and you have never taken the slightest issue or is the right side skin very tissue thin.