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Trump is Right About Due Process and the #MeToo Movement

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  it-is-me  •  6 years ago  •  17 comments

Trump is Right About Due Process and the #MeToo Movement

President Donald Trump is only the latest of many – feminists, other women, and men – arguing that some kind of due process should apply before a person is fired, or suffers other kinds of losses, based upon allegations of misconduct. In some situations these arguments are clearly correct as a matter of constitutional law.

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Peoples lives are being shattered and destroyed by a mere allegation. Some are true and some are false. Some are old and some are new. There is no recovery for someone falsely accused - life and career are gone. Is there no such thing any longer as Due Process?
7:33 AM - 10 Feb 2018

37,095 Retweets 134,450 Likes

But even when the Constitution doesn’t require it, a strong argument can be made that those accused should be accorded at least some measure of procedural protection – sometimes called “fundamental fairness” or “due process light” – based upon the basic principles of due process which have been followed for hundreds of years both here and in other common law countries.

The accused should be given, at the very least, an opportunity, reasonable under the circumstances, to defend himself before being permanently deprived on something of value, although this does not preclude decision makers from taking interim actions against him to protect others before the matter can be decided.
The arguments for affording the accused due process, or at least a minimal opportunity to defend himself, go well beyond legalistic ones, and could help quell the backlash which is reportedly already occurring.

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Since the principle of providing a person accused of wrongdoing with due process is so well accepted, o ne may wonder why so many feel it is appropriate in some #metoo situations to take precipitous action based upon nothing more than a few accusations, with no opportunity for any semblance of fairness.

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But although accusers should not longer be routinely disbelieved or ignored, it is also clear that at least some claims are and will be false and/or exaggerated. Saying that all such claims must be fully believed, and so any proceeding to ascertain the complete truth is unnecessary and/or insulting to the complainants, flies in the face of hundreds of years of acceptance of the need for fair play, especially in “she said, he said” cases.

Any such policy would leave men completely at the mercy of any women they may work with, since they would be vulnerable to punishment without any reasonable opportunity to defend themselves.

Under such a scenario, it is logical that men would try to protect themselves by favoring males over females in hiring, in choosing whom to work with, selecting companions with whom to attend conferences, preferring to mentor males rather than females, and perhaps being reluctant to lunch with female workers.
While no one doubts that sexual misconduct – everything from rape to groping – is wrong and should be deterred by punishment, dispensing with all due process could harm women very severely by making it even more difficult to advance in so many workplaces still largely dominated by men.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/trump-is-right-about-due-process-and-the-supernumbermetoo-movement/ar-BBJ3iA6?OCID=HPDHP

GRANDMA OPRA ?

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It Is ME
Masters Guide
1  seeder  It Is ME    6 years ago

I ACCUSE ..........YOU !!!!!!!!!!!

You ARE now "GUILTY" until PROVEN "INNOCENT"stunned

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  Vic Eldred    6 years ago

Some said right from the beginning that the "me too" movement would be used for political reasons and it so true. It's no longer "he said/she said", it's become "she said and that's it"

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
2.1  seeder  It Is ME  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    6 years ago
it's become "she said and that's it"

Exactly !

 
 
 
Uncle Bruce
Professor Quiet
3  Uncle Bruce    6 years ago

When I attended Nuclear Power School in the 80's, the number sign "#" was used to represent pounds.  As in 150# (pounds) of pressure.  So when I read "#" I automaticly read it as Pound.

Thus when I see "#metoo"....

 
 
 
Fitbuddy
Freshman Silent
4  Fitbuddy    6 years ago

I think where Trump fails in this argument is that when it comes to people he likes ore agrees with politically, he says there should be due process and he believes them over the women who are the accusers. 

However, when it comes to Conyers and Frankin or other people who he disagrees with, he wants them out of office immediately. 

You can't have it both ways. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
4.1  seeder  It Is ME  replied to  Fitbuddy @4    6 years ago
However, when it comes to Conyers and Frankin or other people who he disagrees with, he wants them out of office immediately.

Sorry....that WASN'T Trump that "Wanted" that. It was the Likes of Pelosi and the Liberal Party on those two issues about "Their Own Kind" ! confused

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
4.1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  It Is ME @4.1    6 years ago
that WASN'T Trump that "Wanted" that. It was the Likes of Pelosi and the Liberal Party on those two issues about "Their Own Kind"

You're absolutely right, we can't rely on Trump for any sort of moral guidance. That would be the blind leading the blind, or in his case, the child rapist and admitted sexual predator leading the posse to lynch a comedian who took a tasteless photo but didn't actually assault anyone.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
4.1.2  seeder  It Is ME  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.1    6 years ago
You're absolutely right, we can't rely on Trump for any sort of moral guidance.

Did Both Conyers and Franken ACTUALLY DO what they were "Accused" of ?

 
 
 
Steve Ott
Professor Quiet
4.1.3  Steve Ott  replied to  It Is ME @4.1    6 years ago

This wasn't Pelosi:

Central Park Five defendant hits Trump over 'due process': You rushed to judgment on us

Trump said in 2016 that he  still believes  that the Central Park Five are guilty despite another man confessing to the crime and police having no DNA evidence linking the group to the scene.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
5  Dulay    6 years ago

Just out of curiosity, exactly WHO is keeping Porter from going and talking to Shepard Smith or any other media outlet? He met with four reporters, hand picked by Sarah Sanders, after the pictures came out and before he resigned and told them his side of the story. For some reason he did so 'off the record'. He had his shot at 'due process' and he balked...

In fact, I can't think of one person that has been accused through #MeToo that has been denied the right to give their side of the story. 

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
5.1  Skrekk  replied to  Dulay @5    6 years ago
In fact, I can't think of one person that has been accused through  #MeToo  that has been denied the right to give their side of the story. 

Nor have any been charged with any crimes, so Trump's "due process" comment simply means he doesn't understand the concept.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Participates
6  Skrekk    6 years ago

Senator Gillibrand has offered to provide Trump some due process:

The lives of survivors of sexual assault and domestic abuse are being shattered every day. If he wants due process for the over dozen sexual assault allegations against him, let’s have Congressional hearings tomorrow. I would support that and my colleagues should too.

 
 
 
luther28
Sophomore Silent
7  luther28    6 years ago

Kind of odd that when it comes to one of his own he calls for due process. Hmmmmmm.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
7.1  seeder  It Is ME  replied to  luther28 @7    6 years ago
Kind of odd that when it comes to one of his own he calls for due process.

Unlike Liberals that will throw the likes of Al Franken to the winds on just an accusation. Al SAID....."He didn't do what was reported" !

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
7.1.1  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @7.1    6 years ago
Unlike Liberals that will throw the likes of Al Franken to the winds on just an accusation. Al SAID....."He didn't do what was reported" !

We're not just talking about your average joe. These people are federal employees. As such, they are held to very strict standards. The average federal employee  can loose their job just for being arrested for a DUI. NOT convicted, just arrested. 

Trump made the decision NOT to give the guy [and it looks now like as many as 150] a waiver. Porter had NO business handling documents marked  confidential much less Top Secret Code word documents. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
7.1.2  seeder  It Is ME  replied to  Dulay @7.1.1    6 years ago
NOT convicted, just arrested.

Franken was just ACCUSED !

Conyers was just ACCUSED !

It's a sad day when someone is Required/FORCED to do the "Right thing?" for "NOTHING" more than an accusation.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
7.1.3  Dulay  replied to  It Is ME @7.1.2    6 years ago
It's a sad day when someone is Required/FORCED to do the "Right thing?" for "NOTHING" more than an accusation.

Yet THAT is exactly how it is for Federal employees. 

So that 'sad day' happened DECADES ago. It's nothing new. You can be a decorated Air Marshal and if you are arrested for a DUI you are GONE. PERIOD. Full stop. 

Like I said, Trump had a perfectly legal way to cover Porter's ass with a waiver and he CHOSE not to do it. Now, all the rest of his minions will be under scrutiny too. Trump will have to shit or get off the pot, lay his Signature out there on waivers, or loose a mess of his minions for lack of security clearances. I personally can't think of why Trump wouldn't just sit down and sign a bunch of waivers to vouch for all his minions. His sycophants won't hold him responsible for anything that happens because of his poor judgement. They never have. 

 
 

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