Lubitz Was 'Depressed'? Now, Wait a Second
Source Link In this Sunday, Sept. 13, 2009 photo Andreas Lubitz competes at the Airportrun in Hamburg, northern Germany. (AP Photo/Michael Mueller)
Newser) When Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz killed himself and 149 other people, was he depressed or just "depressed"? That distinction is key to grasping his state of mind and helping lonely, difficult, and angry people around the world, writes Anne Skomorowsky at Slate . At the hospital where she practices psychosomatic medicine, Skomorowsky sees former gang members paralyzed by gunshot wounds who behave badly with aides and nurses. "When I am asked to evaluate [them] for 'depression,' I see hopelessness, entitlement, and rage," she writes. Similarly, self-destructive and unhappy peoplelike the patient on dialysis who still eats chips, or the widow who watches TV all dayaren't necessarily depressed at all.
"'Depression' seems to signify social ills for which we have no solution, from violent, homicidal behavior, to health illiteracy, to our cultures neglect of the elderly," writes Skomorowsky. "People who need social support can be expected to benefit most from programs that provide social supportnot from psychiatrists." Which brings us to Lubitz: Was he truly suffering from depression, as one investigator has claimed ? So far, we lack sufficient evidence. But while most suicide cases involve mental illness (usually depression) Lubitz didn't just kill himself: "Suicidal thoughts can be a hallmark of depression, but mass murder is another beast entirely," Skomorowsky writes. "Depressed people need help. 'Depressed' people do, toobut not the same kind." Click to see her full piece .
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I know nothing about psychiatry, but he didn't seem depressed, so much as he seemed angry-- angry that he had few friends, was living at home with his parents, etc.
I've never known anyone that had depression that would even remotely consider killing others. If they wish to die, they go out alone.
My sister-in-law doesn't have depression, she has a personality disorder, and has threatened to hit people with her car. I don't honestly think she was doing it to really die, she just wanted attention. Now, she doesn't have a car, so that ended that. After trying to commit suicide with Prozac, (yeah, that didn't work), she called up everyone and told them she had taken all 50+ pills, and everyone in the family advised her to call an ambulance. So, she did. She got up, packed a bag, and was waiting for the ambulance to come and get her, sitting on the patio of her home, calm at last.
Now, sadly, she has ovarian cancer. She is in her 4th year of "remission". She isn't really ill, per se, but she won't last much longer, poor thing.
As a person with "Major Depressive Disorder, with Suicidal Features", I get tired of Depression being a catch all phrase for whenever someone like this does something like this. Was he depressed? Probably. Did he have Depression? Almost certainly not. A depressed person may do what he did, but a person with the illness Depression almost certainly would not have. People who actually have Depression may be (and frequently are) suicidal, but are extremelyrarely homicidal. A person who really has Depression may have committed suicide, but it is practically unheard of for a person with Depression to kill others too.
Someday, sooner or later, it is very likely that I will take my own life. It is part of my illness and is a compulsion that I fight with medications and therapy on a daily basis. However, when I do I will be the only one to die. Like most suicidal depressives we are not harmful to others. People such as myself, who do have Depression, get sick and tired of having our illness blamed for the actions of others who clearly do not meet the criteria of the illness. It is NOT a catch all and shouldn't be used as one, as it is an insult to people who genuinely do have a mental illness. It is a word too easily bandied about and more care should be given before using it. More care by the media and by individuals.
Just some thoughts.
Good point MM.
The one thing that really struck me in this, is that he killed 149 other people. That did not compute for me. I have had two friends that committed suicide, neither had every mentioned killing anyone else, not did they ever attempt killing anyone other then themselves.
After trying to commit suicide with Prozac, (yeah, that didn't work),
Just makes you really, really, really tired.
Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used. The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html##ixzz3VuuiY5wT
It's definitely heard of.
What about manic depression , which is now termed 'bi-polar'?
Manic Depression is a completely different diagnosis then Depression, hence the name change. My 2nd wife was Bi-Polar and when she was medicated was still a handful sometimes. There were times when she was in a manic phase where we would do something like play Yahtzee for 36 straight hours. Or when she was in a depressive phase where she wouldn't get out of bed for 3 or 4 days and I had to bring her food to get her to eat. She'd sleep for 2 days straight. When she was medicated the symptoms were barely noticeable most of the time and only if you were really looking for them, but her mother decided that no one in her family ever had such a thing a a mental illness, so she constantly talked her into stopping her meds and always without telling me. Her mother said I was causing her "Nervous Breakdowns".
One of the hardest parts about mental illness is fighting the stigma which is still very real. It is an illness like Epilepsy or Diabetes, both of which require constant attention and both of which were stigmatized for generations due to their unusual symptoms that most people didn't understand. Just like them mental illness is primarily a physical illness that is not yet fully understood. I say primarily, because the stigma and fear can cause other symptoms which makes it difficult to determine and treat the root illness.
I agree with that statement insofar as it would apply to causing physical harm or death to others. Although I believe there is no intention to harm others, inevitably a suicide will do so. I recall, when in an institution recovering from my clinical depression (and fortunately my recovery has been complete - no medication required for at least 7 years) that one of the patients committed suicide and the patients in our ward held a discussion with the doctors about it. One patient said that it was an unselfish act to have committed suicide, putting an end to the pain of her own and others caused by her illness. However, I disagreed, and said that the suicide was a selfish act, and will have caused tremendous pain and suffering among those who loved her, and transferred some of her stigma upon them. The doctors agreed with me.
Taking such drugs does not indicate a diagnosis of Depression. It indicates they were on powerful psychotropic drugs, which could have been prescribed for any number of mental illnesses, such as Bi-Polar Disorder.A person with a diagnoses of Depression is one of the last people who would kill any one other then themselves. They are a danger to themselves, not to others. I have never heard of a mass murder where the person's diagnosis was Depression.
I read your attached "article" and you'll notice that the cases of mass shootings do not indicate what diagnoses the shooters had. You'll also notice that the shooters were almost invariably young to very young people for whom most of the drugs they were using are contraindicated andwhen usedare to be used only under very tightly controlled circumstances.
You are trying to use the diagnosis of Depression as an excuse for these mass shootings and the connection just is not there. People with Depression, who are or are not being treated, kill themselves, not others. In spite of what the NRA says. Sorry, but in the cases you cite Depression did not kill. Poorly medicated andtreated teens with too much access to heavy duty fire power did.
Also there is no indications of what the dosages of the drugs these young peoplewere being given. Were they being given under tightly controlled circumstances? Did the shooters actually have a diagnosed mental illness or were these cases of doctors and/or parents over-reacting to normal childhood and teenage disruptive behavior and throwing pills at it? Did the school know that they had a student who had a diagnosed mental illness who was being treated with an un-recommended drug (as anti-depressants are almost invariably contraindicated for teens and young adults and carry strong warning labels concerning their use). Were any of these shooters also using street drugs of any kid? Drinking alcohol? These can have a profound effect on most prescription drugs of any kind, let alone drugs designed to alter a person's mood. Were these mis-diagnosed cases that were wrongly being treated with anti-depressants? That is very often the case. Even Doctors tend to use Depression as a catch all when they should know better, because it's easier. It's lazy medicine and all too common.
Were these the proper drugs? I could give a 15 year old LSD and he could kill a bunch of people, but that does not mean they had a mental illness, so were they being treated for something they did not even have?
Yes there are mental illnesses that can cause a person to act out violently, either treated or untreated or not properly treated. Depression is not one of these. It just is not. If you want to blame mental illness for school and other mass shootings, hey go for it (if you can), but you'll have to look elsewhere rather then treated or even untreatedDepression. People who have been diagnosed with Depression are not killers, mass or otherwise. It is unheard of.
People are prescribed anti-depressants for depression, no ? I'm not making any excuses I'm just pointing out the clear connection between the anti-depressants and violent behavior.
People are prescribed anti-depressants for depression, no ? I'm not making any excuses I'm just pointing out the clear connection between the anti-depressants and violent behavior.
Only sometimes and many times not. Many people, especially young people are given anti-depressants for just about anything from the "blues" to acting out in class to getting too many speeding tickets. They are handed out by doctors like candy (mostly by the family MD) to teens. most of whom have never even seen a Psychiatrist and have never been diagnosed with Depression by one. They are a catch-all "cure" for a catch-all diagnosis that is easy for a doctor to make.
I'm not making any excuses I'm just pointing out the clear connection between the anti-depressants and violent behavior.
But there is not. There is a correlation between mental illness and mass shootings, but that doesn't mean the person getting the anti-depressants, especially if they are a teen or young adult, actually have Depression and almost certainly do not. If they don't then they are being given dangerous drugs (most of which should not be given to teens anyway) for an illness they don't have, while the violent mental illness they do have goes untreated. It means that as far as what mental illness they really have, they might as well be getting sugar pills toward treating it and the anti-depressants may be making their violent mental illness worse.
People who are properly diagnosed with Depression do not kill anyone but themselves. It is unheard of.
The pilot killied himslef. That's Depression However he killd a lot of other people to and (as the author says) that's a whole nother anmal.he flew the plane into the mountain because he was depressed (probably), but you can't blame Depression for it. He did not have Depression.
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It was a pretty desperate cry for attention, I think. At least, it got her the help she needed.
Pat, I understand what you're saying, no doubt. But maybe they needed the medication to begin with and would have done it anyway?
I don't know... I take an anti-anxiety, anti-depressant combo, (most heart patients do), and it would never occur to me to kill someone else, (other than a fleeting, pie-in-the-sky wish.)
The DSM-V is out (finally!)and here is a link to it on Depression. Notice, no danger to others listed.
To you and Randy,
I'm certainly not trained in mental illness treatment or diagnosis. There's a lot of different types and even with depression there are many sub-categories, I couldn't hope to tell one from another except extreme cases.
I'm just saying the outstanding trait all these shooters have in common is that they were currently or recently prescribed anti-depressants. I think these drugs should not be prescribed as widely as they are. Here is a really interesting article, it shows that doctors don't even come close to understanding the psychotropic drugs they prescribe. It's really frightening to me.
I'm just saying the outstanding trait all these shooters have in common is that they were currently or recently prescribed anti-depressants. I think these drugs should not be prescribed as widely as they are.
I couldn't agree more and hope I didn't come off as hostile to you in my answers. It was not my intention. Antidepressants are being prescribed for practically every emotional complaint and sometimes for no emotional complaint at all and especially to teens and young adults, where they can have a very negative and profound effect. Not only can they cause severe problems in and of themselves, but often they can mask real other mental illnesses if they are present, making them worse for being untreated and being exposed to the wrong medications. And in nearly no case are the medications closely monitored. The FDA puts those loud warnings on the label about teens and young adults and very close monitoring for a reason, but too often they are ignored. These are powerful drugs to treat a specific condition and if they are prescribed for the wrong condition or to those too young or, in far too many cases, no real condition at all, disasters can result.
This particularly upsets those of us who actually do have diagnosed Depression, because we get the blame for just about everything that goes wrong because of the wrong prescriptions (antidepressants) being written and abused and the stigma of being violent and unsafe, when that could not be further from the truth.
Co-pilot of doomed plane was treated for suicidal tendencies, officials say