Israeli Newspaper Op/Ed - The "Trump Massacre" Is A Reason For Israel To Be Ashamed
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-trump-massacre-a-reason-to-be-ashamed-1.6092822
Anyone who isn’t ashamed of what should already be called the “Trump Massacre” should be.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed at the wanton firing at unarmed demonstrators while the VIPs, the leaders, the lords and masters and the rabbis attend a vacuous and tasteless celebration.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of the grotesque, satanic, corrupt sight of hundreds of self-important celebrants filling the air with false clichés, while thousands of unarmed demonstrators “find their death” or are wounded by the unrestrained rifles of courageous snipers, some of whom probably rejoice every time someone is hunted down.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of the yawning, cold, evil indifference with which Israeli citizens are accepting the “Trump Massacre."
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of the contemptible, pathetic, fawning friendship between two incorrigible narcissists. One – a racist lecher, homophobe, misogynist, demagogue, and a coarse and inveterate liar. The other – a chauvinist, toady, cynic, inciter, demagogue and liar, whose talent for mendacity is equal to that of his friend from overseas.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of continuing to believe with total gullibility the heaps of lies and excuses of the various army spokespersons, in the military or the media, who have been working for days and weeks to create excuses and learned explanations for a predictable massacre.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed to swallow, with herdlike obedience, the official fairy tales that a starving nation inGaza constitutes any kind of threat, even the smallest, to the State of Israel, to the entire Jewish people, or to the troops who are surrounding their prison and shooting them like fish in a barrel.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed at the sight of the air force bombing a holding pen of two million people from the air.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of the sight of the cynical jesting of He who sits in the heavens, when sending the Philistines from Gaza to fight against the Israeli Goliaths, with only smooth stones and the burning tails of flying foxes in their hands. As though He suddenly had a desire to return to the Bible, but in reverse.
Let anyone who is not ashamed be ashamed of the contemptible fence that has suddenly acquired the sacredness of Mount Sinai, with anyone approaching it doomed to die. A temple of barbed wire, surrounded by a strip of death that is worse that the strip of death of the Stasi secret police along the Berlin Wall.
Let anyone be ashamed who is not ashamed of his country’s constant and egregious lying, as though all it wants is peace and not territories. As though it’s army were the most moral in the world. As though it isn’t one of the most monstrous tyrannical occupiers in the world. As though it doesn’t aspire to carry out ethnic cleansing in the occupied territories. As though there really is no one to talk to. As though its settlers are not greedy and unrestrained wild men. As though it’s a democracy. As though it has no nuclear weapons. As though it really fears Iran, and isn’t using it as a scarecrow to preserve the seat of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. As though the leftists, the New Israel Fund and the bike riders are to blame for everything.
In short, anyone who is not ashamed of his country today should be ashamed.
And we, those who are ashamed, can only ask, like poet Natan Alterman and like Tamar the sister of Amnon in the Bible: And we, where will we take our disgrace?
B. Michael
Haaretz Contributor
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Haaretz is a liberal leaning daily newspaper in Israel.
Haaretz is a daily newspaper in Israel that is aware of what the conditions are on the ground there. You are.......... I don't know what you are.
Deleted, Skirting {SP}
I have never made an anti-semitic or anti-Jewish statement or comment in my life.
The majority of Jews in America agree with what I am saying about this. Donald trump is blowing it and is going to continue to blow it by doing things like sending evangelical pastors over there to pray for the end times in Jerusalem. JEWISH PEOPLE DONT LIKE THAT. Get that through your thick skull.
He never called you an anti-Semite. Why that reaction on your part?
He is responding to me and one of my comments. Who the fuck do you think he's talking about?
I know you're not an anti-Semite - that should be meaningful.
Wait a sec, do you have a valid source for that, like from Gallup Poll or Pew Research, or is it your opinion?
Interesting theory-- you may or may not be right.
Do you have a link?
Obviously he doesn't - so his comment can be ignored.
I seeded another article that contains facts and figures on that topic.
"Liberal leaning"? LOL. TREASONOUS leaning is more like it, and lucky Israel is a tolerant and freedom-loving country.
Sounds like you're a Likudnik, Buzz.
I have no affiliation with any Israeli political parties, and I don't support the parties. I only support the survival of Israel and its people. My right hand has not withered and my tongue has not cleaved to the roof of my mouth, so I guess there isn't anything wrong with that.
I wonder how many pro-Israel papers are allowed to operate in Gaza. But Israel is the oppressor.
Thanks for pointing that out (I do wish people woud pay more attention to the sources of the articles they read, and the biases of those sources).
FWIW, most of the Israeli news sources that are prominent online are:
1. Ha"Aretz. (Just my opinion, but I wouldn't categorize it as "left leaning"- rather IMO its "far left" (with occasional more moderate stuff).
2. The Jerusalem Post -right wing bias. (also with occasional more moderate stuff).
That being said, the actual coverage of from both of these is often quite good.
3. Ynet: Pretty centrist. Very sliight liberal tendencies but one of the most objective Israeli sources IMO.
Haaretz is described in wikipedia as being left leaning.
LOL. Only "left-leaning"? I guess that was written by the Ha'aretz staff (Wikipedia is contributed to by the public).
Liberal - hhmmmm.
You surprised?
Do you prefer we believe Netanyahu and Trump's version of everything? Afraid not.
Sure as hell don't believe anything that sez the Palestinians are "poor defenseless" folks who are only rioting and killing at the direction of Hamas because the U. S. has opened an embassy in Jerusalem.
Hamas is enjoying the attention they are getting - regardless of how many Palestinians die.
Trump decided to do the embassy dog and pony show on a day that would maximize the Palestinians agitation and protests. They could have just opened the embassy.
This whole thing was intended to show the world that the US is 1000 percent behind Israel and against the Palestinians and that the conflict is "over" and Israel has total victory. That is the meaning of moving the embassy and having the big production.
What they will succeed in doing is make some of the Palestinians more desperate than ever.
Hamas has been doing this for decades, and I would think that anyone who believes otherwise and denies the reality of their murderous ways and putting their must vulnerable people in danger, should be ashamed. That includes any Hamas apologists here on the forum.
And I say fuck the Israelis. I don't care about them.
They're not desperate because of Israel, they're desperate because their governments (PA and Hamas) won't make peace with Israel.
Arafat was an Egyptian.
And he was assassinated because he tried to make peace with Israel
And a master manipulator. IMO, although there's a lot of blame to go around....more than any other person...Arafart was the most responsible for the lack of a Palestinian state.
Unfortunately that's a commonly held misconception:
Those are the facts.
In addition, I have followed the Arab Israeli conflict in great depth-- for many years. And I can tell you that, without a shadow of a doubt, peace with Israel was the last thing Arafat wanted. While pretending to be seeking peace (for Western consumption) , his main goal was to preserve his own power (amongst the Palestinians) and the way to do that was to gin up hatred against Israel. To encourage terrorist attacks against Israel, etc.
I messed up yesterday. I actually meant Anwar Sadat not Yassar Arafat.
Please forgive me
oh and hat tip to Split Pea who corrected me
Maybe.
Actually the timing may be the important thing. IIRC, moving the Embassy has been promised by Trump for a long time-- and Congress (even when controlled by Democrats) has voted overwhelmingly to do so.
So why now?
IMO its not to make a one-sided statement as you hypothesized. A after all Trump could've done it when he first said he would . . . I believe that was a year ago. And so could've previous presidents when Congress voted to do so,
I could be wrong but IMO Trump did it now because he's getting really, really scared! The seizing of papers and other records of Michael Cohen (Trump's brilliant lawyer) could be a major turning point-- Trump doesn't know the contents of all that was seized-- it could be quite damning
Trump worries obsessively about his public image. He needed a distraction-- so now was the time to raise hell by opening the Embassy! Certain to create a YUGE brouhaha!
(HaHA!)
Well, on the other hand maybe that slap in the face of the Palestinians was required to pull them out of their intransigence when it comes to serious negotiation for a peace treaty. The usual everyday diplomacy has had no effect for decades - maybe something different was required, and in my opinion, it has now been done, so let's see how it plays out over the next little while.
Those truths would, of course, be denied by the NT supporters of the Palestinians.
Israel has only one king, and his name is Donald Trump.
Whether one accepts the Palestinian narrative of hungry masses demonstrating for dignity, or the Israeli version of a cynical exploitation of human lives as cover for homicidal intent, there is no doubt that the scores of dead and many hundreds of wounded on the Gaza border spoiled Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump ’s extravaganza. The more the casualties in Gaza mounted, the more those assembled at the site of the new American embassy in Jerusalem seemed arrogant, detached and mainly devoid of compassion. As more and more reports and tweets came in about the mounting casualties in Gaza’s day of bloodshed, the worst since the 2014 Protective Edge operation, the more the claim that the embassy move could actually help achieve peace seemed both cynical and ridiculous.
The knockout to Israel’s image was built-in in the script. When a modern, sophisticated and armed-to-the-teeth army confronts unarmed masses sporting kites and stones, the propaganda debacle is inevitable. Even the best hasbara points – sorely lacking in this case, except for domestic consumption – cannot contend with so many killed and wounded. Hamas recruited the embassy ceremony as a catalyzer for its Nakba campaign, which could escalate in the coming days, and exploited the international media’s coverage of the Jerusalem ceremony to its own ends. But while Israelis told themselves that they’re dealing with a terrorist organization that is callous to the lives of its own people and rules over a territory that Israel supposedly withdrew from, international public opinion could only see strong versus weak, occupier against occupied, a heartless state confronting despair and desperation.
At the same time, the makeup and participants in the Israeli-American Jerusalem hoopla made clear – if there were any doubts – that Netanyahu and his colleagues couldn’t care less these days about international public opinion. Israel has only one king, and his name is Donald Trump. He is Israel’s salvation and his word – or at least his benefactor Sheldon Adelson’s – is the bond that fuses Jerusalem and Washington together. The participation of pastors John Hagee and Robert Jeffress in the ceremony accentuated this new axis of fundamentalist, messianic End-Times-adoring elements that increasingly dominate ties between the two countries. Hagee once described Adolf Hitler as God’s hunter and Jeffress consigned unrepentant Jews to hell, but in the era of Trump-Netanyahu, old-style aversion to Jews is cast aside for the sake of unqualified support for Israel’s rejectionist, settler-dominated agenda. A shared hostility to Islam, which Jeffress once depicted as a religion of pedophiles, underpins the ties that bind the two countries together.
In this regard, the ceremony also marked the demise of bipartisan support for Israel and even dispelled the notion that anyone really cares. The U.S. delegation didn’t include even one Democratic legislator – an absence that spoke volumes. And even though most Israeli opposition leaders came to the ceremony, out of true conviction or fear of public opinion, Meretz leader Tamar Zandberg was right to stay at home. A genuine, peace-loving leftist, even one who supports the embassy move in principle, shouldn’t be seen in the nationalistic-messianic forum that convened in Jerusalem under the guidance and orchestration of left-loathing U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman.
So, the fact that George I concurred with Israel's wishes/demands that the U. S. embassy be moved to Jerusalem - and it's Trump's fault? And that Clinton echoed George I's agreement - and it's Trump's fault? And that George II echoed that agreement - and it's Trump's fault? And that Obama echoed that agreement - and it's Trump's fault?? And the fact that Trump concurred and FINALLY, after four U. S. presidents had already agreed to the move and TOOK ABSOLUTELY NO ACTION, it is all Trump's fault???
John - you're really losing it fella - seriously. Your hate for Trump knows absolutely no bounds.
Neither of you appear to have the slightest comprehension of the implication of the linked and posted article.
Interestingly the former presidents did not actually move the embassy seemingly just gave lip service to the request, perhaps they knew the divisive reaction wasn't worth placating Israel, but trumps desire to give them anything they want overrides that sensibility. It would seem your love for trump removes your ability to see the forest.
Your senseless comments are bordering on being out of control. Get a grip for god's sake.
skirting the CoC [ph]
I think that's true, but in what other context would/should we accept that? Shall we deny the Holocaust because it might make somebody mad? That might seem like an absurd example, but we dance around the Armenian genocide just so we can keep our air bases in Turkey. Reagan called that spade a spade, but all the presidents since then refuse.
We should be in the practice of acknowledging truth and calling out evil when we see it. The truth is that Israel's capital is Jerusalem and it's their decision to make. And Hamas is an evil organization that daily uses women, children, and the elderly as human shields for their terrorism. Screw the reaction.
It had nothing to do with placating Israel.
It had to do with "placating" the American public! Congress repeatedly voted to move it. Why? Because regardless of ideology, the first priority of elected representatives (on both sides of the aisle BTW) is self-internet-- to get re-elected! And polls had shown that Americans were overwhelmingly much more supportive of Israel than of the Arabs.
Long winded fact free absurd comment.
What a LUDICROUS title. It's the article's opinion that Trump's moves may have made resolution of the conflict impossible, but the status quo has for decades not produced any change in Palestinian intransigence or a change in Hamas' charter containing the necessity of obliterating Israel and its people, so maybe it's time to try a different tack, and show a position that says "If you're not going to do ANYTHING to make peace, then fuck you, wallow in your self-pity." It's my belief that Arabs respect nothing other than strength and power, and wishy-washy diplomacy is a joke to them. So since for decades of wishy-washy diplomacy brought no solution, let's see what telling them to put up or shut up will do.
Exactly!
The media keeps talking about the so-called "Peace Process"-- and what might kill it. As if it had any chance at all right now. (It doesn't).
And they speak of being afraid that the so-called "Peace Process" will suddenly be killed (as it was so successfully progressing all along).
The modern state of Israel was created in 1948-- and immediately 5+ Arab countries attacked it in an attempt to push the Jews into the Sea. So what happened? Yup-- a "Peace Process" began... in 1948. Its been going on since long ago-- 1948! (If its been so successful that we're afraid it could suddenly "be killed"-- how come there's never been peace between the "Palestinians" and Israel in all that time?
Hopefully there will be a real Peace Process some day-- one that actually achives peace between Israel and the Arabs. But let's get real here-- given the current leadership of both the "Palestinians" as well as Israel, its now totally impossible-- to think otherwise is totally delusional!!!
Kites? But are kites are so sweet.
Oh wait, they're kites with bombs attached to them.
Kite bombs hit Israel from Gaza City thanks to heavy winds
The Jews finally got their ancient homeland back when the country was re-established after WWII. (That was in 1948). Many people worked hard for that-- both Jews and non-Jews alike.
However, your statement is sheer nonsense-- while long held plans for Israelfinally came to fruition in 1948...Trump had absolutely nothing to do ioth it (he was only 2 at the time!!!)
Obviously you're extremely ignorant of the facts...as well as the history. To cite but one example, here's what President Obama said about Israel:
Although I can't open your YouTube so I don't know what it says, I do believe that Obama fooled the Jewish Americans for years with his statements about support for Israel because they were just to get as many Jewish dollars and votes as possible, whereas that didn't matter any more, after Trump was elected, he showed his true colours (no pun intended) and stabbed Israel in the back at the UN.
And don't start with the Military Aid thing, because he had no choice but to support it (especially when Trump was not yet elected).
What a load of BULLSHIT. "Trump Massacre", only an idiot would put it in those terms or even think that is a factor.
Jeremy, do you think American Jews agree more with what I have been saying about this topic, or agree more with what you and the other right wingers have been saying on this topic.
I have an article that I am going to seed later which will answer that question, but I am curious as to what you think.
I think AMERICAN JEWS are more concerned about the Arabs that are invading their homeland. Remember, it is the Arabs that have brought nothing to the table in an attempt to bring peace to the region. So, while enforcing The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (a law Clinton, Bush and Obama didn't abide by), it pisses them off more because we not only recognize Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel, we move our embassy to where it should be.
And you side with the Arabs trying to make them out as the victim. Sorry, they aren't victims, they are terrorists. Especially when they are backed by Hamas.
Donald Trump is singlehandedly turning American Jews away from the Netanyahu positions.
By doing what? Enforcing a 22 year old law from that Clinton, Bush and Obama ignored? I understand that American Jews would be concerned with Netanyahu positions. Many American Jews are applauding President Trump for finally going through with it.
Netanyahu is a politician of a foreign country. He really has no say in regards to what the US does. In this case, President Trump enforced US law, obviously ran it by Netanyahu because it involves Israel and here we are. We same Arabs who have been blocking peace in the area are now rioting because Israel and the US have an agreement on where an office should be located? Pretty petty in the larger scheme of things.
This is an interesting concept. Why is Trump so concerned with "enforcing US law" in Israel? The truth is that Trump wanted to move that embassy in order to please his evangelical far right Christian political base who sees the return of Jerusalem as a sign of the progression of biblical end times prophecy. Trump AND Netanyahu are so cynical they go along with this. Netanyahu likes it because it allows him to move forward his defacto claim of having completely "won" the conflict with the Palestinians. The moving of the embassy is the visual representation of the fact that , to Netanyahu and the Israeli right, the "two state solution" is dead.
You didn't read the FACTS John - " The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (a law Clinton, Bush and Obama didn't abide by)",
The Act was passed by the Senate and House of Representatives and sent to Bill Clinton, as President, for signature - he did not sign, so, under the Constitution, the Act became law.
This is not a Donald Trump thing - it's a Federal Law and Act that was passed 22 years before Trump became President.
Read the Act - there are specific requirements that must be met and adhered too - Trump didn't write/dictate those requirements - the 104th Congress of 1995 did.
So, show me and everyone else, just how Trump is responsible for moving the U. S. Embassy to the Capital of Israel - Jerusalem.
Waiting . . . . . waiting . . . . . waiting . . . . .
That's a question you have to ask congress that was seated under Clinton. They are the ones that proposed it and passed it. Enforcement of the law, goes right along with recognizing Jerusalem for what it is, the capital of Israel.
This embassy, is one of a few that are NOT in the nation's capital. With President Trump seeing Israel as an ally, made the decision to do the right thing, move the embassy. It just happens to be in accordance with the law.
Now you are heading toward the deep end again.
It's not the deep end at all. It is as plain as day. What the hell were Robert Jeffress and John Hagee doing over there? What the hell do they have to do with Israel?
The Evangelicals may have their reason, John, but many others have their reason as well.
"Should I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand wither and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth." Psalm 136:5
And said at the end of every Passover Seder (except perhaps in Jerusalem): "Next year in Jerusalem."
Of course they did, the law gave them the opportunity to extend the waiver every 6 months which they all faithfully did and as Trump also did (once? or twice?) last year.
Bush started the "new" embassy construction in 2004 and Obama finished it in 2010.
Why didn't any of them make it the official embassy? Leverage.
Having the embassy in Jerusalem was one of the few pieces of leverage that the combined Administrations have had over the peace process, new settlements, cease fires, etc,
Did you see where Bush located the new Embassy? Right in 'no mans land' straddling East and West Jerusalem on the old Green Line.
When the building was finished in 2010 Obama moved the small US General Consulate from Nablus street in East Jerusalem and gave up that property.
The current CG moved back into the Agron street building which has been a source of contention with it's neighbors for years - parking issues mainly.
In January of 2018 the US bought the Eden Hotel next door to the "new" US Embassy on Flusser Street not in West Jerusalem or East Jerusalem...
It's all good, the Eden hotel is being renovated and the CG will be consolidated next to the Embassy.
Every one will be happy. Espescially the Rabbis and neighbors on Rehov Agron.
Except, what exactly did we get for this? Applause?
We certainly gave up whatever leverage value we had since 1995 or longer,
apparently for nothing except ratings.
Do you honestly believe all American Jews have identical political bleifs? (For that matter, do you believe all American Christians-- or even Muslims-- all all 100% identical in their views?
Sheesh-- if so, that one of the stupider ideas I've heard on NT!(Not the stupidiest by far...but still pretty dumb!
)
Great video Peter.
Thanks. I thought it very interesting as well.
Can you provide some text as to what the YouTube video is about?
Ain't that the truth. Sounds just like some people on the right here.
This behavior has gone on for DECADES...the Palestinians fire off their sling shots and rocks and the Israelis retaliate with bombs and rockets with extremely 'disproportionate' death tallies. So why the international outcry just now...? What's new, what's different...? This is just 'business as usual'...whats all the fuss?
I guess you've never been hit in the temple with a rock fired from a sling or slingshot (actually, of course not, or you wouldn't BE here, would you?)
Ever try slinging a rock at a cop back where you live? If so, did he/she say "Thank you, will you do it again please?"
Are rockets and missiles fired from Gaza at Israeli residential areas enough provocation for you, or are you in favour of Hamas or Islamic Jihad doing a really good massacre of Jews before the IDF responds.
No response when being called out on your attitude, eh Time Lord? LOL
In the U.S. we have a term for that sort of psychotic behaviour-- its called "suicide by cop"L
Suicide by Cop occurs when people want to die but do not want to kill themselves. So they put themselves in a position where a police officer is forced to shoot them.
Why don't Palestinian terrorists want to commit suicide? Because they actually believe that if they die "fighting for Allah" they will go to a marvelous Paradise where they will exist forever in bliss. (Yes-- they actually leieve this nonsense). But of course if they commit suicide they won't.
So to get to this religious Paradise they must die-- but they won't get there if they do it themselves.
How can they be so stupid? Well, their brainwashing takes place from an early age. Its hard for westerners to believe, but bizarre as it may seem, they actually believe this bullsh*t!
To clarify that, if they commit suicide only for the purpose of ending their own life they won't get their 72 virgins, but if they do so with the intent of killing as many Jews as possible, such as the Passover Massacre murderer, or the ones who detonate themselves in buses or pizza parlours, then they will go to heaven, and, their widows or parents will be supported for the rest of their lives with American and European taxpayers' humanitarian aid money (complicity?).
Supported by a culture that nurtures these notions.
Sorry Buzz, I wasn't ignoring you. I haven't been here for a few days. I've always had the greatest respect for you and I'm sorry if you felt I was throwing off 'attitude'...on the contrary. I thought I posed a simple observation of both past and present. I'm not in favor of "this side" or "That side"...just an observation.
I'm sure Buzz, you are not trying to suggest that the damage done by sling shots and rocks is equivalent to that of rockets, bombs and automatic weapons. Again...excessive Israeli response is and has been for decades...'good bad or otherwise', this seems to be their 'normal' response.
I'm curious to know...why is this any different in the world view...? Why the outrage now?
Thanks for responding.
Please provide a link for an occasion when the Israelis responded with bombs and rockets when the Palestinians fired off their sling shots and rocks.
Well its not only Jews. Its "infidels" (AKA "Unbelievers"). It could be Christians..Hindus... it could even be fellow Muslims. Shia murdering the "unbelieving" Sunni, the Sunni massacring the Shia infidels*.
So how do they know which group are Unbelievers?-- how do they know which people to murder in order to achieve the Arab version of "Suicide by Cop" so they can get into Paradise? Well, its whatever their leaders tell them!
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While in some circles its only "politically correct" to mention Middle Eastern wars when the Jews are involved, there are currently two much larger wars that have been going on for some time. The civilian toll-- every day-- by far exceeds the Gaza conflict. And both of these are due to the Sunni-Shia conflict-- these are the wars going on in Syria and Yemen. But neither side has ongoing participation by Jewish combatants, so not surprisingly you won't hear about them on NT!
Its starts early-- the textbooks they use in Palestinian schools are incredibly racist.
Here's an informative video where Hillary Clinton comments on this:
This has not been the situation for decades! In the past the Palis have hijacked airplanes and mass murdered innocent passengers. But that hasn't happened for years. (They no longer even think about doing that anymore-- because the "word on the street" is that its now impossible to hijack Israeli airliners ).
They used to sneak aboard Israeli civilian buses and blow themselves up-- killing civilians or maining them for life. But when was the last time you heard about that?
They used to try another route to "enter paradise" as well-- sneak into Israeli cafes and detonate themselves. How often has that happened recently?
The Gazans shot rockets--(with a few rare exceptions at Israeli civilian targets only)-- how come that's no longer inn the news?
They used to sneak into Egypt via tunnels and murder innocent Egyptians. When was the last time that happened?
No-- things are not the same as they've "always been"!
The border barrier (fence in most places) stopped most of the suicide bombers because they couldn't go through a checkpoint wearing their bomb vests. That forced them to just do one-on-one stabbings, driving vehicles into crowds, breaking into homes at night and murdering families, including infants, etc.
Clearly...the thing that keeps the blood flowing is the on-going self righteous tit for tat..."I'm justified because..." fill in the blank, which justifies the next act of bloodshed, killing and violence day after day generation after twisted generation. The hate killing and violence has become a 'life style' way of living...ingrained and encased in a culture.
Personally, I believe in equality. I think both the Israelis and the Palestinians ought to be equally armed to the hilt to where each side can be killed twice over...then the world community jus shut up...back up and let ya all sort it out once and for all. When the dust settles, the last group of people standing takes the disputed territory...end of "Holy War" for Holy dirt. The spoils and soils will be once again anointed in blood and God will have clearly favored the 'victors' because they prevailed. Thee end of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict...
Ok...now ah have to admit, it makes as much sense as the Hatfields and the McCoys, same principle anyway. "If ya can't escalate, don't participate"...
What a great idea, TL, a fair war! Arm each Israeli and Palestinian with exactly the same weaponry and ammo, have rules [no torture, etc] and America could be the referee! We could hand out penalties for infractions and set up cameras all over Gaza so we could have instant replay! Best of seven, first side to win 4 wars gets the territory. If it went 7 wars there wouldn't be many of these assholes on both sides left either!
Hey, LL and TL, you're right. What a great idea. Unfortunately you're too late for the Japanese to have had the atom bomb during WW2 and the means to deliver it to the USA - after all, you would have liked that "fair fight", eh?
For your little game I personally would still put my money on Israel. With damn near no military equipment in 1948 and being considerably outnumbered Israel didn't do too badly against the armies of the surrounding Arab countries, and in 1967 when the massed armed forces of 3 Arab countries tried to wipe them out, Israel didn't do too badly then either. But to be really fair, since the Arabs played dirty pool and chose Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish year when most people were in the synagogue praying, to invade Israel, maybe this time it should be on the first day of Ramadan, or some other day when the Arabs spend the day in the mosque praying. You know, just to be "fair".
Both sides seem intent on destroying each other and neither side seems willing to stop or find resolved until the other is obliterated from the globe, hence my chided suggestion, but thas ok. It would appear as though nothing short of annihilating one 'side' or the other will resolve this conflict. As Donny might say..."thas sad, thas so very very sad".
That might seem likely...if we are not aware of the actual history.
In 1948 Israel regained their ancient homeland and declared independence. Several Arab armies* attacked Israel in an attempt to "Push the Jews into the Sea". But Israel survived.
Every single one of those countries refused to make peace or recognize the tiny state. So looking at that, one might assume the situation back then was similar to the one you just described between Israel and Gaza. (Hopeless).
But in a later war in 1967, Israel has an amazing victory-- by use of force they ended the illegal Egyptian Occupation of Gaza and the illegal Jordanian Occupation of the West Bank. And-- they occupied the Egyptian Sinai-- which IIRC is an area 2 1/2X the size of Israel!!!. (And oil had recently been discovered the Egyptian Sinai.)
Of course Egypt wanted to get it back. (But Israel had one demand that Egypt found to be ouitrageous: : that Egypt make peace with Israel!)
However after a while Egypt qave in-- and signed a peace treaty with Israel in return for land! Israel returned the area...now Egypt and Israel are formally at peace. But they never would've made peace if Israel hadn't conquered and occupied part of Egypt-- and hadn't forced Egypt to make peace in order to get their land back! (Later Jordan also made peace with Israel-- but to this day Lebanon, Syria, and IIRC Iraq have refused to even have peace talks with Israel or recognize Israel's right to exist! (Morons!!!)
Yes, it would appear that way if we ignore the history....
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*In 1948 Israel was attacked by the combined armed forces of Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. (Plus volunteers from some other Arab countries).
The reality is that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and this will not change unless Israel loses power. So it is not going to be divided and that must be accepted. Resolution of the Palestinian problem will require concessions on both sides. The movement of our embassy to Jerusalem *was* a bargaining chip of immense value which our president gave away for nothing. So much for mister “Art of the Deal” ‘master’ negotiator.
It was probably something the Palestinians would NEVER agree to, so what good would it be as a bargaining chip if it just makes them walk away from the table. The Palestinians have already established that they MAKE NO CONCESSIONS, only Israel does (release of prisoners with blood on their hands, 11 month building moratorium, etc), so how can there even be negotiations? Both sides have to allow something.
Yes-- they even released Samir Kuntar!
Unbelieveable-- that I can tell you!
Many they released continued their terrorism.
Did Trump tell women to bring their babies to the Israeli border fence? Did Trump tell them to light tires on fire and throw them at the fence? Did Trump tell people to launch incendiary devices over the fence with balloons?
Oh wait, that was Hamas.
I don't want to get into U.S. politics here as it is off topic. However, while its difficult for many westerners to believe-- Hamas deliberately sends women abd especially children to the front line in hopes they will be killed-- or at least seriously injured. (The really young kids have no choice-- the older one actually believe if they die that way they will go to Paradise!).
In fact, Hamas even admits they do this:
Hamas using Palestinians as human shields: "We desire Death as you desire Life"
(Note "Jihad" is Holy War, and a "Shahid" is a martyr who dies in a Holy War for Allah)
Anyone who isn’t ashamed of what should already be called the “Trump Massacre” should be.
Actually I'm no longer surprised when I read statement such as that, A seeder--- attempting to derail his owen seed! Its par for the course..on social media sites such as NT!
This discussion is supposedly about the recent hostilities re: Gaza between the Israelis and Hamas. But I'm not surprised that people here are attempting to use it to further their political agenda-- re: U.S. poliitcs. (And of course that applies to people on both sides of the aisle).
Let me state that I am no fan of Trump (I did not vote for him and IMO the sooner he is removed from office the better). However: The recent confrontation on the Gaza border was not caused by anything Trump did,,or said. It was not caused by the moving of the U.S. Embassy. It was not caused by any statements or actions of Trump-- or any Americans. (It had other causes-- all related to the actions of the Israeli and Has governments. And that is a fact!).
Yes, the timing of the Embassy move, as well as the speakers chosen by Trump was incredibly stupid. And yes-- that issue inflammed Hamas' passions even more. But none of that was the cause-- it would have happened anyway. (The Palestinians attempts to cross the border and massacre Israelis would have happened-- and on the same date!-- anyway. And Israel's strong actions in preventing that would have been the same).
Article is locked due to the seeders absence.